Have They Gone Too Far With White In Commander?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

a funny comment i've heard a few times: "how does white win?" how does any deck win? that's not a color thing, that's a deckbuilding thing. i have 3 mono-white decks and they win all the time and in different ways.

[@ShorinRyu74]

I'm honestly shocked when I still hear people mention white being the weakest color, it's like they haven't been paying attention for the last few years

[@DamDgenerate-wp3op]

I have a mono white manual storm deck that quite often wins on turn 5-6 it's not the best but because of the lack of flashy wincons people don't think you're gonna win unless you are running lifegain or something when it comes to white.

[@petercannon7378]

There are excellent generic win-cons in white aswell. Approach of the Second Sun and Moonshaker Cavalry are both monsters at closing a game

[@ShorinRyu74]

@@petercannon7378 I demonstrated a moonshaker cavalry the other night with new kambal and got 3 copies, +27/+27 and flying to my board

[@lloydnoid6506]

People forget White is one of the best colors for go-wide strategies. You can deal a million damage without one individual big banana slammer creature.

[@akitoemery8651]

I think one of the reasons white has so many cards in the top most played and black doesn't has less to do with white being op and more to do with the concentration of good cards in black as opposed to white. White decks NEED to play most of those cards to function well in a vast majority of cases, while black has so many options that specific cards don't really need to be played.

[@alexandermoreland7221]

I do have one argument for you. These white cards listed are always in decks that include white as a color. I think the question Demo is asking is, where are the black cards in the auto include list?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

as i said in the video. it's not about need, even 5 color decks play those cards.

[@n0obz27]

​@edhdeckbuilding Definitely true. Farewell is arguably the best boardwipe in the game, smothering tithe is disgusting ramp and simultaneously draw-punishment, swords is arguably the best single target removal, with Path being one of the other top dogs in the race. White used to have no card draw, not it has no problem with that, and it's not even just Esper Sentinel carrying anymore. Back in the day, every color in the pie had a few things they were known for, and had things that they were known for not having. In this time, white was far and away the worst, and it wasn't even close. The only way to fix this was to give white more options, but what they did was give it the best options. Instead of a bit of card draw, it got the best card draw. Instead of minor ramp, it got amazing ramp. It always had boardwipes and removal, but now they are cheaper and better. It's been pushed way too much, and has become too dominant, and since it's all on paper there is no way to revert this other than continuing down the power creep path.

[@leonvalenzuela4096]

​@@alexandermoreland7221that feels like a poor comparison, "overrun" effects are so common that even the 8th best one is still playable because so much of them have come out, lowering the uses of each, as others of comparable use, white decks don't have that luxury, there is no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best "dark confidant" for this color save for wraths; what's a replacement for smothering tithe, that's the same card just less powerful? esper sentinel? teferi's protection? the "powerful" white decks can still be ban "fixed" as the things you've complained about are single style cards, not normally done in color; but if you did ban them then what? white goes to being the worst color because the best cards of the color have spotlight on them, mainly because of the gap in-between normal white cards & the best, the 90th best black removal is still a fine card, same with 187th best green ramp is the same; the 3rd best version of a white card is laughable

[@avall0nNn1992]

​@@alexandermoreland7221 Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Dark Ritual, Toxic Deluge, Deadly Rollick, Dauthi Voidwalker, Opposition Agent, Orcish Bowmasters, Necropotence, Ad Nauseum, just to name a few.

[@nigelcicero9093]

White is finally at a good point, now red needs help

[@edhdeckbuilding]

red certainly needs help.

[@InTecknicolour]

mono black's inability to deal with enchantments and artifacts is still a big problem in higher level games where everyone plays interaction and some staxy effects.

[@Shimatzu95]

Honestly for red carddraw i see a few ways they could explore: 1. More monarch cards, red is the aggro color so taking monarchy is fairly resonable 2. Draw on combatdamage effects like toski, even if inly 1x per opponent per turn 3. Draw whenever you damage a opponent the first time each turn (this one might need a more restrictive wording due to punisher effects) 4. More hellbent focused effects, example: draw 2 extra cards, discard hand (or x cards) at eot

[@TeethMeat-jm8ou]

I don't need more card draw! I need more burn spells that cantrip and 5 more copies of Goblin Chirurgeon!!

[@TeethMeat-jm8ou]

@@Shimatzu95 despite my joke these are cool ideas

[@jeffreylong1478]

Disagree strongly with your point on cyclonic rift. The fact that it’s one sided and is instant speed is the brutal part of it, not that it bounces.

[@BrootalMetalBanjo]

But one-sided wipes actually progress the game. And it’s not back breaking, you can attempt to redeploy

[@Jerhevon]

@@BrootalMetalBanjoif you can redeploy then they didn't use the Rift right. Arguments that a poorly played farewell is definitely worse than a poorly played Cyclonic Rift are fair. Also Farewell is played in one of my decks because people kept bouncing back from my Ondine Inversions too fast. Stop those shenanigans!

[@riukenavatar8625]

As a white commander enjoyer, the main thing keeping the color from being as strong as it looks for me is cost. I like to own the cards I play, and over half of the best white cards are all fairly expensive. They're mostly a bunch of new must-have rares and mythics. Only worse color is black since it's best cards are expensive tutors.

[@TeethMeat-jm8ou]

I think they're expensive because people say "finally actually something good in white" and buy it all up. I don't have data to back that up but that's what it seems to me. The meme of white sucks is making cards expensive.

[@N4chtigall]

@@TeethMeat-jm8ou They are expensive because of demand/supply. Cost is the only reason they arent included in every deck that have white in it. Even with cards that were reprinted to oblivion (Swords to plowshares) its price is still like 1 euro because every white deck want it. So it's not even the fact that "white finally got something good", but more like "white got something so good that not using it in every deck is actively handicapping yourself".

[@Lazydino59]

@@TeethMeat-jm8oualso all of these cards are recent printings and haven’t got meaningful reprints. One new print run would effectively double the current supply and prices would fall and stabilize at a much lower point

[@azelia2464]

​@@N4chtigallYep... there's a reason I put Mangara and Esper Sentinel in every white deck I play. If I don't add them, I feel like I'm being handicapped and it's annoying.

[@azelia2464]

​@Lazydino59 Unfortunately that doesn't always happen. There's a lot of cards that get reprinted that are high dollar but either slightly go down or stay the same.

[@devindabney198]

I literally JUST took Farewell out of my decks this past weekend. I was playing commander at my LGS and when I drew Farewell, I never wanted to play it, even at times where it would have made strategic sense. I’ve never been happy to see it-whether I drew it or someone else did-and if I don’t find it fun then I don’t want to run it. Great video as always!

[@whitetiger39619]

Why? I love playing Farewell, it almost always helps me get ahead.

[@HereToSuffer247]

You haven't played teferi pro + farewell. Such a strong combo and imo farewell is a must run card simply because you need a boardwipe that answers most things especially in white

[@HereToSuffer247]

@whitetiger39619 in decks that don't run many creatures it's been the best thing that's been ever printed for my burn deck.

[@whitetiger39619]

@@HereToSuffer247 I'll never understand why people are so afraid to run cards just because they think it's "tough" on their opponents. I straight up run Teferi's Protection + Armageddon in my bant enchantment deck. Maximum pain.

[@HereToSuffer247]

@whitetiger39619 its just different ways to play the game. I run in my red white burn deck with 15 boardwipes/ aoe burn wipes alot of which deals dmg to my opponents. I play effects like repercussion, burning sands, vicious shadows to punish people who have alot of creatures while i rarely have creatures in play. People really forget that there are ways in which you can play magic thats not just turn creatures sideways

[@lostinthewoods2201]

Can we talk about how we ought to encurage going deep into colours as a way to mitigate some powercreep design? All the cards in this video require 1 white mana. If teferi's protection was W.W.W it would not be as big of a deal, more uncommon to see and let colours stand out more.

[@shorewall]

100%. Mana costs have so many ways to keep things fair, but Wizards is just vomiting power creep to get every last dreg of profit out of the game.

[@lostinthewoods2201]

@@shorewall this goes in to a larger point i make about the colour aswell. The easy of "splashing" colours detracts sometimes. That is why i love the new duskmourn demons design. On another level, look at the state of green in commander. Exclusivly used for its ramp. If we saw "tutor for basics" and "power equal to forests" etc we could deepen and encurage mono decks!

[@Belena711]

I take issue with this "Most Popular = Most Powerful" argument. Just because a card is played a lot does not make that color the best at that effect. In fact, many times it means the opposite. Feed the Swarm is ranked higher than Fierce Guardianship, Toxic Deluge, and Dockside Extortionist. I don't think it's because it's the best enchantment removal in the format.

[@n0obz27]

That is accurate, but I think the logic is applicable to all of the cards shown in this video.

[@eebbaa5560]

why does feed the swarm get played so much? just because of the enchantment part?

[@kris834]

@@eebbaa5560 Yes only decent option in black, so goes into pretty much every black deck without white or green

[@SWNJim]

@@Belena711 that’s exactly my point. If there’s few options, then they aren’t as spread out. It’s not a popularity contest, there just simply isn’t an alternative.

[@SFTortoise]

white has become more prominent color in commander. ironically. bant just gets better with time.

[@MeZimm]

White + Simic, what do you expect? :P

[@biostem]

Exiling cards from the battlefield always should have been a rare and premium effect. Phasing is required as an answer to cheap and common exile, because exile invalidates every other defensive option against destruction. I don't mind phasing as much as ubiquitous exile.

[@narkfly]

There are also Blink effects that return everything at the end step... but those are probably also in White.

[@andrewspears8891]

White and blue, if you don't have either of those colors in your deck, fairwell will hit your stuff no matter what short of a non-blue counter spell.

[@bamby3144]

I def agree

[@HughMurphy395]

While I agree with you in the context of casual commander, white is the best colour, for the same reason T Pro isn't as popular, the top black spells aren't popular. It comes down to cost.

[@michaelpatalano9884]

Yes, please stop giving them card draw and give red ANYTHING😭

[@JDXTHEKID]

This.

[@riukenavatar8625]

@@michaelpatalano9884 100% I feel like the other colors are reasonably balanced, like same tier on a tier list, and red is just flopping at the bottom tier poking it's head up with the occasional combo or single strong card.

[@Turn140]

Red has treasures

[@TheSmartCinema]

@@Turn140 every color minus blue has lots of ways to generate treasures... what you said was true maybe 3 or 4 years ago but now I can easily put out more treasures in monowhite than an average red deck could

[@marceloaraujo2803]

and please, give it something other than impulse draw… maybe more wheels idk

[@EnordAreven]

Like what most people here have said already, all the other colours have variety, so when you have white cards, you have the most used ones, while percentages of the other colours are spread out between different optional cards.

[@webbc99]

Sands of Time is a fun counter to phasing. It skips the untap step, so nothing will phase in until it's removed. Great for a Teferi's Protection because their lands won't even phase in.

[@RedRoams]

just because white finally has good things going for it doesnt mean its too strong. it's low rate removal is counterbalanced by so many other downsides. every person ive met who doesnt like white just dislikes it for the same reasons they dislike blue; for actually having good removal.

[@cthulhu8164]

"white OP because 2 spells in 90% decks :((((" "black garbage because its 500 amazing removal arent auto-inludes in every deck EDHREC :((((" What spending more time on EDHREC than playing EDH does to a brother.

[@biod8998]

And yet blue stops all of those with 1 or 2 mana

[@henryjones8636]

Or 0 😎

[@reigenomix9287]

Ok. As someone whose favorite color has been white since Ice Age I have to disagree with this. White is stronger than it has been the past, but it's no way gone too far imo. Using the top 100 cards in the format is not a great way to do this. White is primarily, still, a support color and is readily splashed. Apologies for a long post but I want to delve into this, and I think there is a good comparison to be made. White has strong staples, but in many ways those staples are required for a (mono) white deck to be competitive (in many playgroups) so they float towards the top of the list. Many of those staples are also good enough that other decks, notably partner decks, will splash white just to use them. White has 9 mono cards in the top 100 cards. 5 of which are removal/board wipes, one is a treasure maker, one draws cards, one is TP and one is a tutor. It drops off severely after that. White is top loaded in its staples, and that can get very boring when you see them all the time, but I don't think it's reflective of the color as a whole. You ask where are the black cards? Check the next 100, it has 19 there. Black has far more variety and card choice when compared to white, which is why you don't see as many in the top 100. A variety of similar effects will naturally lead to cards being in fewer decks because players have to pick between the cards and determine which is best for their decks synergies. Example: White has Esper Sentinel, there is not another white card draw spell in the top 200. If I want to draw cards in Black i have 8 -10 (if you count citadel/tutors) cards to pick from in the top 200 alone. You can utilize enchantments in the form of Black market connections or phyrexian arena. You can use Read the bones or nights whisper if you need immediate cards in hand. In token decks or aristocrats you can use things like village rites or deadly dispute. I think Teferi's protection (while amazing) is something good to have because it opened a new design space for white to play with and has come out with cards that, in some decks, maybe on par with it (Clever and Galadriel's). IMO the answer to cards like TP isn't to ban them, it's to spread out the idea more and make it so players need to consider what they actually run. Again, see black card draw for what happens when you spread out an idea and account for potential different deck types/synergies. I agree with you on farewell though, F that card.

[@MeZimm]

Esper Sentinel is so expensive that it might as well not exist for me. If I had a mono-white or Boros deck then I might bite the bullet and drop $25 for it, but otherwise there's basically no reason to do so since the other three colors do card draw waaaayyyyyy better. Which is kind of a shame, since I have both an artifact deck and a humans tribal deck that would love to have it.

[@reigenomix9287]

@@MeZimm Yeah, and that's the other issue with mono white and the idea that it's "gone too far", that's only true if you can drop 50+ for its staples. Esper Sentinel $25+, Smothering Tithe $25+ (was lucky and bought 6 at $3 before they spiked), Teferi's Protection $35+, etc etc

[@sheahon1179]

So... why is farewell uniquely problematic? It is a boardwhipe like Akroma's Vengeance or Austere Command, albeit slightly more powerful. In most cases, they do pretty much the same thing. So, are you arguing that those niche cases are the problem? Or just the general power creep? Because Eerie Interlude and Ghostway, etc, are good ways to protect yourself from that, so while farewell has less interplay than AV or AC it does still have counterplay

[@cosmosveil9355]

I suppose it's because Farewell has such a "screw you" style of gameplay. Indestructible/regenerate? Screw your creatures. Sacrifice your creatures to potentially recur them? Screw your graveyard. You're running an artifact or enchantment deck? Screw your permanent types. Farewell being multimodal makes it pretty much a perfect answer to any board state, especially if you don't care all that much about permanents or your graveyard. It's not that hard to set it up to where it either just takes one player out of the game or is essentially a game reset if you're far behind. Sure, spellslinger decks might not care too much about a Farewell but there are no perfect answers.

[@Izelor]

White is considered the worst color because it doesn't have a reliable way to win. Every other color can close the game in some way. White is still treated as the color you put in to support the rest. Generally speaking, the way WotC treated white shows why casual multiplayer and Magic don't really go well together. A good chunk of Magic cards was designed to prevent your opponent from playing the game because you want to win by any means necessary. Commander is the exact opposite. It's supposed to be a fun, casual experience for the playgroup and cards that don't let your opponents play are shunned by the table. This, however, leads to a stale environment because if you take out land destruction, discard effects, taxes and every other "unfun" tactic, all you are left with are a bunch of midrange decks that approach the game the same way: ramp and draw cards for a few turns, deploy the first pieces of their strategy and try to close the game by turn 8-9. This creates the paradox that even though Commander uses way more cards than other formats, every deck feels exactly the same.

[@DoctorWhoBlue]

I think the "just have fun" mindset is commander is incredibly pernicious. When I down to play 1v1 magic, me and my opponent will (ideally) both be having fun because we're both playing to win against a challenging opponent. The same should apply to commander - people are too afraid of making 'mean' plays. The goal is to win; the fun is in everyone trying to get there. And to be clear, this isn't a 'let's play cdh' thing. It's just that you shouldn't throw games or avoid stuff like discard and land destruction because it's 'unfun'.

[@nanoglitch6693]

I completely agree. I dove into commander in 2012 and built four decks to start out. Three of the four included white largely because it was such a strong support color.

[@PT-pn5ge]

EDH is ruining Magic

[@SledgeMichaels]

@@PT-pn5gefacts

[@Izelor]

@@DoctorWhoBlue personally, I agree. A lot of people however feel that you must never go all out because the format is supposed to be a social experience first and a game second.

[@Corve]

They have not gone far enough 😈

[@johnpratts2856]

Yes! Agreed!

[@cthulhu8164]

Until Mono-white is stronger than Blue-Green, white should get stronger and stronger. May those who mocked white fear the future of EDH: Sudden Warscape, an instant for W, that exiles all creatures and graveyards, makes 10 1/1 tokens with lifelink and indestructible, draws X cards where X is your lifetotal and if an opponent controls more lands than you, you win the game. Until I see a spell like that, white deserves buffing.

[@blandcranston5439]

​@cthulhu8164 LOL. I love you. And it'll be a common. That costs 3 bucks.

[@blandcranston5439]

​@@cthulhu8164 for 3 mana

[@cthulhu8164]

I don't know how white can be "too strong" because it has 7 silver bullet cards in removal slots and best board wipes, while every other color has better options in every *other* slot. White has 2nd best ramp in what planet? One where MTG has only 2 colors? White only beats blue in ramp (and even then, only because it can fetch Plains, while blue has better treasure generators.) Smothering Tithe is awesome. Its one card of 99. White does not have 2nd best ramp because 1 of the 99 is the best ramp card in the format. Effects like Generous Gift exist in blue and green in a functional reprint, an RNG version in red, and black has better removal after you've cast your all 2 copies of 1 mana exiles! Please, do your upset rant a favour and play in a mono-color pod with a white deck and witness just how 'broken' white is, because you could exile a creature for 1, while blue draws 6 cards, black draws 3 and kills 2, green gets 3 lands in play and red domes you for 16. But I bet they're scared of your 6 mana board wipe exiling anything you want coming in 3 turns! You're judging the power level of a color based on the strength of ~7 cards in a format where the table has 400+ of them on it. White has cool explosive cards, with nothing else, its all-in, while every other color (barring red) has 60+ cards in their decks that will always do something and have an impact. That is vastly stronger in a singleton format to having 57 do-nothing cards with 3 cards that have the most impact of all decks. Especially since, and this is the most important point that I'm borderline offended at being ignored, until recently white couldnt even DRAW those cool cards!! Smothering Tithe and SwordsTP are incredible cards.... if they weren't stuck in the middle of the deck never to be seen... But we're stronger than black FOR SUUUURE because while our cards are so good they're in 90% of decks, the monoblack noob used one of its 9 draw spells to draw into a 3 mana kill spell (basically only viable in the late game, obvs) to destroy a creature we couldnt (but it wasnt exiled, so it was a pointless spell obvs) /s White is *finally* becoming a color itself and not just a way to have removal in U/B/R/G+W decks. We need to go *further* because its not like WotC or the RC are going to ban 20% of non-white power creep like green draw, nor are they going to stop printing green draw. In the past we used to say "we need 5-7/10s being printed in white" , because as other commenters mentioned: Black has 20 different cards to do the same thing. White has 5 cards that go in every deck. We need that fluff for the 99, and thanks to modern color design, that fluff can't be a mere 5-7 anymore, when UBG can run mono color decks using ONLY 9+s. The time for subtle buffs was eclipsed with green draw, now its time for white to have decks full of 9+s. 11:09: All of them? *Except* white? are we even playing the same game? I'm sorry but after a comment like that, I can't help but assume this is just chronic EDHREC stats addiction and cant listen anymore. For the love of god count how many cards in white on gatherer contain "draw a card" and then read them. There's barely enough to fill most deck's desired draw slots.... I'm sorry but easily worst take I've ever heard to imply white is the BEST color because it has 1 version of any effect (like literally every other color.) Is Black better than Blue because it too has draw and counterspells (Dash Hopes, Deathgrip etc and look! 2 examples of black counterspells, one better than using esper sentinel as an example of all the "fantastic" card draw white supposedly has) but unlike blue it has hard removal? No, because black has only 1 viable counterspell, like white only has 2 viable draw spells. White has more draw now, but its the worst possible, being conditional AND 1by1. There's no white refill effects like harmonize, sign in blood, divination or jeska's will, except Secret Rendezvous that draws 3 for an opponent, so safe to say white still has the worst draw of the 5, because red has tons of impulse mana that negate the downsides of the 300 impulse draw effects it has access to. White can merely celebrate finally having SOME draw, thats really it. Beyond gobsmacked at hearing white draw called "fantastic" unironically. 19:33 "There's no effect like Teferi's Protection outside of White" Don't worry, I also don't know what the color pie is. That's why I also think a worse Rhystic Study means White has comparable and on-par card draw to UBRG who all have better "draw x" sorceries than white could even hope for and white having an effect unique to its color is an example of WotC messing up card design /s Also, for vengeance alone of being the worst color in EDH for its lifetime, I sincerely hope white enters a 10 year reign of being OP and no one even wants to play green or blue. This part of the comment is just my rant and not actually well-intended. Respectfully, A mono-white EDH player.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnimaZyhl7WiqZY

[@IssacTheScourge]

He linked his own video instead of responding to a single point, guess he proved his case

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@IssacTheScourge i'm a busy guy. a video i did on the subject is easier then replying to a 5 page essay.

[@cthulhu8164]

@@edhdeckbuilding That's totally fine! No need to read or even respond. All I'm going to say is you yourself said in THIS video that the video you made before was flawed, not mentioning one of the biggest which is you equate different categories as holding the same weight as each other, so my comment here was being generous and making criticisms that your previous video also got wrong, making the link redundant. Enjoy your day, sorry for the big read! 😅

[@VegtamTheWonderer]

6:40 "With Cyclonic Rift they get their stuff back." No they don't. With Cyclonic Rift, they don't even get another turn. I have never seen somebody cast Cyclonic Rift and not immediately knock at least one player out of the game.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

explain this scenario to me. cause no one else can.

[@VegtamTheWonderer]

@@edhdeckbuilding Player 1 overloads Cyclonic Rift, putting all opponents permanents back into their opponents hands. Player 1 then swings with lethal damage at Player 2. Player 3 and 4 can't capitalize on Player 1 being tapped out because they have to spend their turn rebuilding their board.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@VegtamTheWonderer okay thank you for actually giving me an answer. although i would say that knocking out one player is not a big deal. any infect or voltron deck does that regularly. also winds of abandon can work just as good in that scenario or any one-sided board wipe.

[@VegtamTheWonderer]

​@@edhdeckbuilding I think the difference with Cyclonic Rift in comparison to other asymmetric board wipes like Winds of Abandon or Plague Wind, is that Cyclonic Rift tends to only blow out one or two players, while letting the game continue. In practice it's like Door to Nothingness or Aetherflux Reservoir in that it tends to be a "target player loses the game" effect. Those suck because they box out one person, who usually has to just sit around watching a game likely to go on for the next 10-20 minutes because those effects tend to not alter the balance of power all that much in the long term. If Winds of Abandon or Plague Wind go off, it's generally a full game over. It also has to do with the type of player that tends to run Cyclonic Rift, at least in my experience. The kind of player who's going to drop that money on Rift tends to also drop it on Expropriate and Thassa's Oracle and Time Walk effects and is generally just going to be incredibly miserable to play against. And they tend to be the same kind of player who plays dumb (I.E. flagrantly lies) about their deck's power level during Rule 0 discussions. Every color has their own version of this, like Craterhoof Behemoth in green or Exsanguinate in black. But these kinds of players seem to me to gravitate towards blue in particular. So people that don't like Cyclonic Rift also tend to treat it as a poster child for cards that win with little to no strategy required. Which brings me to Infect and Voltron. Once they are knocking people out, the game doesn't tend to last much longer as they are probably knocking everybody else out (or getting knocked out themselves) pretty quickly after that. And those players have to show the threats before they go off. Because you usually know they are playing infect or Voltron at the start of the game, you get much more of a chance to stop an Infect or Voltron player than to stop a Cyclonic Rift.

[@troua2001]

@@edhdeckbuilding knocking out one player is not a big deal. any infect or voltron deck does that regularly - that is why vegtam said "Player 3 and 4 can't capitalize on Player 1 being tapped out

[@QuicksilverSG]

What makes White intimidating is how neither Red nor Green have any effective defense against it. White is the main reason my Gruul decks prioritize quick recovery from board wipes over everything else. Not even Indestructable and Hexproof can save your permanents from exile and untargeted mass destruction, both of which White can wield against Red and Green with impunity.

[@brandondraheim3149]

Not far enough (white is my fav color)!!!! Lol in reality, i think white is great where it is - they just gotta buff up some more of the unique aspects of other colors (especially red) One counter out ill put out is this: much of whites card draw and ramp (including sentinel and smothering) depends on what the opponents due. Its all reactive and you have to meet criteria - granted. Especially with Smothering, thats easy to do - but i really like that about whites stuff. If an opponent pulls ahead by cheating stuff out or getting more lands, THEN white has an opportunity to catch up. Make it fair, which is very in-theme for the color!

[@THEN00BINATORX3]

i love farewell. my pod has a dedicated mishra player who likes to make copies of his Portal To Phyrexia, and he likes to recur his artifacts over and over again out of the grave. and for the uninitiated, mishra creates a copy of any noncreature artifact at the start of combat. which means Portal keeps triggering every turn. farewell is one of the few options to clear out all his artifacts on the battlefield and grave. 10/10 card.

[@DaGraveCrowder]

I wouldn't go putting Arcane Signet in a deck with a colourless commander, as it doesn't function whatsoever I also think that Cyclonic Rift is stronger than Farewell. My reasoning is that the symmetrical effect of Farewell makes it defensive-only unless you combo it with a phase -out protection spell, which requires more resources. Cyclonic Rift can be used aggressively to push through attackers without any extra help. It reminds me of a blue Craterhoof. I do think that Farewell is the more frustrating card, though, because by itself it can only be used as a "Uh oh, better extend the game by a large amount so I don't lose!" I appreciate your videos and I enjoy listening to your commentary!

[@g4e4rman54]

Like you first pointed out, pricing is an important reason why a card is not played that much. Then there is also the fact that demonic tutor is not that casually seen. In cedh you see way more tutors and black does it best. So just because the most played cards are nit black doesnt mean its not one of the best colours, or the best. If you look at cedh blue and black dominate.

[@natethetoe386]

I have push back on Farewell slowing the game down. I disagree that any card slows the game down. Players slow the game down. You should know what you are doing before your turn arrives, and then do that thing. Yes, sometimes you need the adjust from the card you drew or what not, but most of your turns should take less than 1 min. A round should never take longer than 5 min.

[@jamesstratton857]

All reasonable sources of card draw in white come from your opponents choices. Chosing not to pay 1 time for esper sentinel. Choosing to cast 2 spells for mangara/trouble in pairs. You can pretty much allways tell white NO in the card draw department.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

is that why everyone plays rhystic study?

[@zacherygottshall9178]

As far as board wipes go, my hot take is that you should pretty much never put one in your deck unless you have some way of breaking the symmetry. To see why, suppose you're playing a midrangy beat down deck, and you cast a Wrath of God to stop another midrange player who is running away with the game. Who is winning now? It's the artifacts player, or the enchantress player, or the control player or the graveyard player or the guy with the Teferi's Protection. Sure, the problem player is dealt with, but you're almost always dragging out the game and putting yourself behind, which isn't worth it in my opinion. Farewell actually has the same problem. In theory, you can pick modes that hurt your opponents without hindering you, but in practice, you'll probably need to select Creature, and which modes hurt you will most likely be determined by your deck construction before the game starts. So if you're playing a creature heavy deck, we end up back at the Wrath of God problem, except now the player in the lead is the one with the most lands in play and cards in hand. If you're in green, that might be a worthwhile gamble, but otherwise you can probably find better mass removal. River's Rebuke and Sleep are good for slowing down one problem player, while Ezuri's Predation, Make an Example, and Asinine Antics wreck your opponents' boards without hurting you. If you're going wide, By Invitation Only, The Great Aurora, Hour of Reckoning, and Everything Comes to Dust are worth considering. If you really need to keep your commander in play, The Eternal Wanderer, Starfall Invocation, Mythos of Snapdax, Chandra's Ignition, and Killing Wave are good options. Have a lot of big creatures? Earthquake-style effects are great and Pestilence could be fun. Finally, if you want to be doing things at instant speed, Starstorm, Evacuation, and Perplexing Test are good options, and fog-style effects like Aetherize, Aetherspouts, and Spore Cloud can act as psudeo-boardwipes. Sure, sometimes these more targeted mass removal effects don't get the job done, but frequently they'll solve problems while also putting you in the lead.

[@tacothursdays6546]

One sided boardwipes. Austere Command, Winds of Abandon, Cyc Rift, Mandate of Abaddon, Kindred Dominance, Delayed Blast Fireball, and mass fight / deal damage equal to it's power effects in green.

[@IHateDubstep]

"Gone too far" = "made it the second worst color instead of the worst"

[@andrewspears8891]

Fairwell is only delaying action or nuking of resources you are at a disadvantage of, and notably at sorcery speed. Cyclonic Rift on the other hand doesn't touch your board, resets everybody else's board and can be done at instant speed, making it more flexible as to when you choose to use it (in response to an attack or when the opponent before you moves to their end step, forcing them to discard a lot of things they would rather not). In conclusion, cyclonic rift is the better card in 95% of the time.

[@ericyang8474]

I think people are playing too high of a curve if they find cards like these too strong. Teferi's Protection makes sense against casual decks, but with the cost of good blue Counterspells being 0-2 mana, most things above 5 mana should be fairly easily to take out if you run blue.

[@thevoidedwatcher3736]

“Phasing is wierd” 💀

[@Dragon_Fyre]

I attempted to lead by example in removing cyclonic rift. It had no impact. I eventually began to reluctantly include it again. I think games would be better without cyclonic rift, farewell or teferi’s protection but most other players would disagree, so I still play them.

[@ripath]

With eldrazii and slivers in my playgroup I will not be dropping farewell. However, I have replaced t pro with fog effects in my casual decks. They still buy me an extra turn to find an answer when im behind, but nobody gets salty about it

[@wemf2]

Instant board wipe you say? Final Showdown!

[@michaelcollins4534]

Put some respect on rout

[@Mecal00]

​@@michaelcollins4534came to say Rout as well, that's the OG instant board wipe

[@jolteon345]

I have a slight correction for you. Path to Exile wasn't as popular in Commander because it gave the creature's controller a land. Price had a slight effect on it but I still rarely see it because that ramp is a problem. People reluctantly play Path because there's a lack of good exile-based targeted removal, and I don't want WotC to include it in precons, alongside Sol Ring, because it tells casual (and new) players that it's a good and healthy card for the format. And that ties into why white has a lot of the most popular cards. When you lack options, you will keep putting the same cards into decks. When you keep putting the same cards into decks, the popularity of those cards increases. It's even more telling when your playgroup keeps pushing the power level closer and closer to cEDH. What this has led to is me caring more about thematic fits than power. I'll still include some power in decks but I currently have 2 T-Pro in decks (one of which I'll remove when I eventually get a Guardian of Faith) and 1 in a binder, that binder one is from Sheldon's Spellbook and will only enter a deck if I build Sheldon the Commander.

[@sdsquiresful]

Respectfully, I can’t totally agree with your take on farewell and teferi’s protection. I know that’s the prevailing opinion, but I have seen some really strong counterplay to that. I play both of them in plenty of decks, but have taken them out of plenty of others because they’re not as good. With teferi’s protection, I use it to essentially pull a [[Holy Day]] and survive one more turn. Most of the time, it only really swings the game if an opponent overcommits to an attack and I can give a devestating crackback. Or, I use it in situations where mass hexproof works just as well. Interestingly, it often is worse. For instance, when playing against my brother’s [[grenzo]] deck that has infinite combos, teferi’s prot has killed me more times than it saved me because it also give him a full turn cycle to set up his combo while all my stacks pieces are gone and lands are phased out, and kill me on my next upkeep. Farewell is a really strong board wipe. But in my experience, I rarely play it and then win because I fall behind as well. It definitely makes a difference when I’m neck-and -neck against a go-wide board and I have a few strong creatures, but typically if I’m too far behind, it just delays the inevitable. Also against aristocrats decks, it forces a mass-sacrifice spree that puts me far behind on an even board. Politics are important too, because after a farewell, I’m on an even playing field against 3 players who all want to kill me. So very strong, but not broken. I feel like farewell in particular is more oppressive in other formats, such as standard’s overturned UW control.

[@UnholyBasil]

I think the best argument for Cyc Rift being better than Farewell is really just that it's an instant. Farewell needs you to wait until your main-phase unless you have a spell-augment which I don't *think* White has much of, I could be wrong. Cyc Rift, if you can afford it on an opponent's turn, can be played right after they've spent all their mana and will likely force them to discard a lot of good stuff. That might be an edge-case, if you're saving enough mana to Cyc Rift on an opponent's turn the opponent really should be expecting something big at instant-speed and plan accordingly. I still think Farewell is better, just had a few thoughts.

[@jongailey85]

I think the “problems” white used to have are pretty nonexistent these days, particularly with card draw. There are so many passive draw effects now in white: Bennie Bracks, Welcoming Vampire, Tocasia’s Welcome, Esper Sentinel, Caretaker’s Talent, etc. that just sit there and generate value. On the one hand, this is kind of nice because it means that you don’t have to reserve slots to run the “auto-includes” that don’t relate to your deck’s theme. On the other hand, it seems like we are getting a whole lot of generic value and not enough interesting build-around effects. Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines comes to mind. She’s fantastic, but she’s just another Panharmonicon effect. Seems like white has really adopted a “duplicate” theme.

[@mibbzx1493]

Dawn of a new age, Dawn of hope, dusk legion duelist, Archivist of Ogmha too

[@jongailey85]

@@mibbzx1493 for sure. There are so many great ones I didn’t even mention lol. And we are getting there with ramp as well.

[@gabzsy4924]

I'm sorry but this is such a biased and poor take. Using your same argumentation, black cards don't represent the top tier of most popular cards because all really broken and OP black cards are really expensive. If vampiric tutor, demonic tutor and imperial seal were to be reprinted in every new set and precon, I guarantee you that they would be at the top of the list and not only that, as you said it yourself, these cards would be auto includes in all decks thar run black and in fact the meta would change just to include black, and tutors are literally the most versatile card in the game. There's a reason why most cEDH decks include black, and not white. Lastly...if you're getting Cyclonic Rifted at instant speed and you're still untapping for your turn, they played it wrong. Farewell it's an amazing and very strong card, but it's not an instant speed unilateral win condition, there is not even a comparison to be made here.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

not sure how this could be a biased take, i have no stake in white being good in the format. futhermore demonic tutor, smothering tithe and teferi's protection are all around the same price. demonic tutor has been reprinted 27 times, smothering tithe only 13, and teferi's pro only 12. so that argument doesn't really hold water.

[@gabzsy4924]

​@@edhdeckbuilding at 10:00 you said it yourself, just like smothering tithe, if Teferi's Protection was a 2usd card, we would see it ranked much higher and in every 5 color deck. So the same hold true for all the expensive black tutors. It happens that white has cheaper staples and overall cheaper strategies. Black best strategies always rely in doing some really crazy tutors and cheating stuff into play, but all this value comes at a higher price, so it's not about power, but more so about accessibility. Your whole narrative is more popular = better but this is already wrong. More popular = more accessible, and you seem to understand this when valuing white cards, but disregard that same point when valuing black ones. It seems biased to me 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@gabzsy4924 yes i know what i said. and using demonic tutor as the example. it's clear that it's not the case. demonic tutor is about the same price as teferi's protection and smothering tithe, and is played about the same amount.

[@bennettstokes195]

Popularity doesn’t equal power, it’s affected by value over replacement, price, and versatility a lot. Generically good ramp, removal, card draw are useful in any deck where as threats are usually based upon your deck, a colors overall power level might be higher while the staples of those categories are still lower.

[@thetrinketmage]

The evolution of white in edh is so interesting to me! I think red also had some similar changes!

[@jd7391]

I think you have a good evaluation of white. I don't play casual very often but I play cEDH often. In cEDH I think most will argue that black and blue are 1a and 1b then there's debate on red or white for 3rd, red probably takes the cake because of Underworld Breach, Dockside and Deflecting Swat and green is easily the weakest (not because the cards aren't strong, because they are. It's just too slow.) recommendation for a board wipe is Fire Covenant because you can focus on one player to bring them back down if they're ahead. It's not used as often in cEDH these days but it's solid instant speed removal.

[@dislikebutton9571]

Yeah I think the issue with farewell is that it can hit any and all modes including graveyards for no additional cost at 6 mana. It completely outclasses austere command and other 6 mana wipes. It's a silver bullet that deals with so many of the natural play arounds to wipes like reanimation, non creature permanents and indestructible. Merciless eviction only let you choose one mode and couldn't hit graveyards, and that requires orzhov mana.

[@eewweeppkk]

Ser my problem is that it isn't really a silver bullet - a silver bullet implies the right tool for a specific situation and farewell I'd way too applicable always. It's more like a lead volkswagen launched from a battleship

[@jolteon345]

I have said many times Farewell should either say "Choose two" or "Choose up to two". I'd play Farewell if it was an actual choice, the problem with Farewell is that it's always optimal to choose the modes that you personally don't care about, and then there's the off chance where you need to Farewell your plan to stop someone else.

[@dislikebutton9571]

@@eewweeppkk yeah, you're right it's like a platinum diamond encrusted nuke lol

[@purpl3nurgle]

The biggest problem with all the popular white cards and one of the reasons they are among the most popular is that many only cost a single white pip, and any other mana requirements are colorless. For example, a card like teferi's protection would be far less common in 5 color good stuff if it cost 3 white pips or even if just two of them were white

[@CatSoul]

Guys, I don't know if you've thought about this before, but one situation where path is 100% better compared to swords is if you have a deck where you can consistently put a creature on turn 1 or 2, preferably a token, so if you need to ramp in white and you don't have access to green, it could be a good way to ramp, exiling your own creature, and if you don't need the ramp in the first turns, you play it later as removal. Swords doesn't have that flexibility, functioning as both an early ramp piece or a late removal...

[@MrBkatt]

I partially agree with you. Though I think why white is over presenting, is because it's such a great color to pair with to cover more bases so to speak. My personal gripe is with green. I absolutely hate the whole massive land ramp combined with people whinging about land destruction. It's just such a cheap one-sided game warping function, that apparently mustn't be touched. 😬

[@purpl3nurgle]

I'd argue that white is the best color to splash into a deck, though black is still the best color to pick as a mono color commander. Black may not be the best at any particular thing besides reanimation, and tutoring, but it does a little of everything consistently well... though white keeps getting new ways to ramp, draw, remove things, so mono white may take this spot

[@Theanthill216]

Not only has white been given the “green” issue, where new cards printed for that color make you go “thats extremely pushed”, but it also does everything now. Card advantage and ramp were supposed to be a downside for the fact white has removal, blink, stax, angels, and a mistake of a card called smothering tithe.

[@princepersona]

One thing White does do badly is search for non legendary creatures. Ranger-Captain of Eos and Recruiter of the Guard both have limitations. A card that searches for a Non-Legendary without cost or stat restrictions and doesn't cost 4 or more mana to cast would be great.

[@muddyboy999]

I think the reason you're seeing the white cards at the top of the list is that they're the best cards by far in white, where as a colour like black has alternative options. In white it feels like those cards are sometimes the only card that does the thing you want, where as in the other colors becuase it's more of a part of their colour identity you can play something more on theme and still get what you want.

[@sigtryggureinarsson5910]

The fact you would rather see cyclonic rift the farewell is exactly why farewell is better

[@Fyrbad]

Each other colour has a higher average. White has a handful of cards that are super powerful, but lack the rest. People include white to support other colours, they don't do the opposite; playing white and including others to support, nearly as often.

[@QuicksilverSG]

I built this perverse Esper deck with Zur the Enchanter that excludes stax, Necropotence, and pay-to-win card advantage. It turned out 50% White because it's focused exclusively on protecting and exalting Zur's Commander damage. Black and Blue are only there to thwart my oppenents' attempts to take down Zur, not for any particular agenda of their own. It is extremely passive-aggressive up to the point when Zur steps out with 21+ damage.

[@teferitoots8043]

If you are playing against an ETB deck Cyc Rift can be a detriment at times even. You need to make sure you secure the win.

[@Mecal00]

I play Farewell in 1 deck. It's heavy in enchantments and artifacts. So it's perfect, I choose "Creatures" and "Graveyards" but keep all my punishing enchantments on the field.

[@seanmachlan3282]

How does White win? -Lifegain/creature count thresholds -Combat Dmg -Voltron Dmg -Karmic Guide + Revelark combo Is that good enough?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

how does green win?

[@Shimatzu95]

On the topic of instantspeed boardwipes, thats also a thing red should have more of. Damage based wipes are the worst ones by default so this is where they shoyld get s9mething in return.

[@easykinaka]

100% agree on farewell. Top of the salt list for me. In front of stax(which I don’t mind much) and seedborn muse

[@thattallnerd1283]

The term mutually assured destruction comes to mind when thinking about the commander format. It's an arms race with really good cards having to go toe to toe with other really good cards and the players lose regardless of the outcome of the game.

[@dariuszwawrzyniak3465]

Popularity doesn't equal power. It has more to do with how widely applicable the card is (and some other things such as price, etc). I don't think many people would argue that Demonic Tutor is way more powerful than Cultivate but it's further down the list because it's much more expensive and ramp is such an essential part of nearly every deck but tutors aren't that necessary and many people intentionally get rid of them to have more variance in the game. It's true that White has gotten a lot better though - no doubt about it.

[@derHexenhammer]

Teferi's protection would be more flavorful if it said target player.

[@bongzong9824]

Farewell ist just stupid. Austere Command for example is payable and absolutely fair. Does not throw the whole world to zero.

[@HereToSuffer247]

Yeah but there's alot of really good and cheap ways to give your stuff indestructible now in days, farewell literally is the best answer for stuff against heroics intervention type effects

[@edhdeckbuilding]

again it's a catch 22. farewell likely exists because of cards like heroic intervention.

[@HereToSuffer247]

@edhdeckbuilding this is a clear indication of powercreep. Look at that new green card that punishes artifact tokens by giving them 2 poison for each one that goes to the gy. That's imo a new auto include in every green deck because we know how rampant treasure decks have gotten. As time moves the list of cards people hate grow. At what point does it ever stop?

[@LordRazzia]

I don’t like how powerful farewell is, but if it were a 2 or 3 color card or more mana, I’d be okay with it. The closest thing we had to that was Merciless Eviction, which I thought was powerful but fair because you pick one mode. Smothering Tithe is also ridiculously good. Also side note, I love the As I Lay Dying shirt. I just saw them a few weeks ago!

[@dariocampanella7992]

Weirdly enough i think blue is one who is struggling: -white has more engine draw than blue in most cases, blue hasnt seen any new burst draw in a while. -blue does not ramp, but I think they are pushing the design toward cheating stuff into play: see oniscience and key to the vault bur I think it does not work well, those spells are expensive or need set up. I am talking about the draw and ramp being currently new-printed, yes there is rhystic study, consacrated sphynx, and mystic remora but white now is on same level of blue if not better on card draw engines. I will make a comparison with caretaker talent and dour port-mage: token is way more popular than blinking (may be more fringe cases for dour port mage) You can argue that pollywag prodigy is probabily the best card draw printed so far i personally think it will not perform as good in casual and will become a "thassa oracle" situation.

[@whatsupdoc6358]

The problem isnt that they made these cards. The problem is that MONO-WHITE needed help. If these cards had two or three white pips it wouldnt be so bad. All of these can go into 5 color decks. Not what the problem was.

[@cammerbune]

cyclonic rift is always a win condition for me. I play that spell and swing out and kill everyone. I’ve won so many games off cyclonic rift, you aren’t getting another chance to replay your stuff I promise you that. lol 😂

[@FraydNaught]

I think I have to disagree with your points on cyclonic rift purely because it is asymmetrical and can win games if you already have a big enough board, where farewell sets EVERYONE back. Maybe not to the same degree, but it still hits everyone. Yes you can recast those cards on a later turn, but that's assuming the cyclonic rift player doesn't swing at you for lethal before it ever reaches your turn again.

[@YuyoAlberto]

Dunno why people hate so much "Farewell"... in my case, yes it slow matches, but 9/10 times when a match is fun, playing this card doesnt change this at all; also many times playing this card helps decks to discover other ways to win/play your deck that you didnt even know... or even change completely the way the match and making it more interesting and enjoyable... For me, Smothering Tithe is the one i dislike the most, most of times i dont even see it on play or if is in play it doesnt impact at all on the match, people even decide to discard it to avoid losing other cards. // For some balance we need a non-specific Green Global Removal and hope Red gets some help, cause this is clearly the one color left behind. // Great vid.

[@scweekyclansman3635]

Ward is making spot removal hard to always auto include so the more ward the less spot removal

[@Donsjohnson]

15:47 Idk, I’ve seen Cyclonic rift more times than I have Teferi’s protection. Both are annoying to play against, but I think it’s because Tef’s doesn’t interact with my board, that I’m a little more forgiving.

[@simonchi5372]

It's kinda messed up when one of the best card advantage engines in standard is a white 3 drop. White is just a shade of green but with better removal and it will just force other colors to become power crept also. Kinda loses Its uniqueness and variety also if every color is supposed to be good at ramping+card draw.

[@stfinalwrath]

I've always felt white has been much stronger than everyone says in commander. I've heard for about a decade that white is the worst color in commander and I've been saying for a few years i think it mostly is because people don't really play white correctly because it IS a control color. People don't like playing against control because it puts a damper on their fun, which isn't really fair either because everyone should be able to play the deck they enjoy, even if someone else in the group isn't a fan of that play style. It's a game, it's not serious, they're cards for a game, if you have them you should be able to use them. White never needed ramp or to "catch up" because it was really damn good at shutting every other color down. Then it would push its way to the top to start knocking out players, but it is very much a control color. It's supposed to be played like a control deck. That means running armageddon after you've sandbagged a few lands from your land tax to take over the game. But people have let salty individual opinions change the colors identity entirely because they can't handle a mechanic of the game that has existed since the game first came out, white control/stax. But all the new toys they've given white actually has made mono white significantly more dangerous.

[@Kanelbroed]

White was never bad in EDH. Not even back in 2010 when it didn't have all this busted ramp card draw. It's just the main stuff white was amazing at (removal, stax pieces, mass land destruction, taxing, etc), things that dictate the speed of the game and forces people to play fair, like rule of law, were just frowned upon. So nobody played the good white cards. Now that it it's two weaknesses has been squared up, there''s nothing it really can't do.. Heck it even has a better "remand" in "reprieve".

[@RukiHyena]

unfortunately the best draw option rn is a colorless 4 cost ring that you can put in any color deck

[@NoName-wq9eq]

most people I play with have high level decks with infinite combos, so I'm happy with these cards keeping me in the game. mono white might be good at staying alive but still not the best at closing games

[@curtissearle6462]

Sentinel and Protection would 100% be in alley white decks if they were cheaper. As it stands I only have 1 copy of each.

[@salmathe8bitSamurai]

Teferis protection farewell and cyclonic rift I don't really care as long as the game ends soon. Haven't played against farewell as much but what's annoying imo about cyclonic rift is that it just sets the game back several turns. I'd rather just rebuild honestly. I like phasing but I do hope they go easy on it and don't over do it.

[@belovedwanderer8546]

I remember starting playing white two years ago and it was right when farewell came out and now there are so many white cards that are "amazing"

[@Lazydino59]

White has turned into a crutch color for me. The removal is so strong and the card draw and ramp is good enough if you jump through some hoops. When I deckbuild without white I find myself struggling to fill out my removal/board wipe suite to satisfaction

[@seanmachlan3282]

I think the reason you see White removal beating out Black tutors in popularity, is because White removal is viable in Casual and Cedh, where as the best Black tutors are frowned upon in Casual.

[@h2ojr1]

Players in 2016: White is the weakest color WOTC: Hold my power creep

[@TheMeanDean7]

Honestly with all the exile in the format I've just started running riftsweeper to get things back.

[@azelia2464]

Yeah they need to stop printing card draw in White. It has what it needs now, too much actually. And I agree. I enjoy Red a lot but its annoying to play sometimes because of what it lacks

[@JcNanito]

16:06 I’m that guy 🤣 it saved me soo many times. Had one guy pull an infinite combo with Shalai and Hallar with Red Terror. I just simply phased out while he killed everyone else. He was dead on my combat phase 😅

[@chaun1115]

I only don't like Farewell when it is used as a, "I don't like how this game is going, so let's start over" aka white behind and using all four modes. TP would be fine as a Sorcery or if the cmc was a bit higher but... as is...yes, I get it. I still play it though lol tbf though, there isn't much to do about it unless you start chopping other "annoying" cards from other colors. I guess what I am saying is that every color has unfair cards so you either have to ban them all or keep them all. That's why play groups are great. You can just agree to not use them.

[@professortusk]

I'm sorry I had to do it, I couldn't take it anymore 0:19 0:32 0:38 0:46 1:10 1:12 1:20 1:31 1:39 1:42 1:47 1:57 2:06 2:16 2:40 3:14 3:18 3:23 3:30 3:44 3:52 4:00 4:07 4:12 4:15 4:18 4:30 4:39 4:47 5:22 5:25 5:56 6:24 8:40 9:26 9:55 10:11 10:14 10:25 10:29 10:50 11:20 11:26 11:30 11:45 12:08 15:23 18:49 19:05 19:10 19:25

[@enso8379]

Most played doesn't equate to most success. Just because cards are used frequently doesn't mean that they lead to more wins.

[@helxeen2607]

I hate Farewell do to it mostly just makes the games go slower and I still see people using it. It would be better if you can just pick one than picking like all of them.

[@SWNJim]

7:24 If you’re replaying your stuff, then your opponents aren’t playing Cyclonic Rift correctly. The fact that it’s instant speed is a huge boon over Farewell. You know how we fix both of these? Ask WotC to release an ability that functions like indestructible. “[This card] cannot be exiled from the battlefield or returned to hand from the battlefield.” Short cut it with a keyword. This list is just a good stuff list and once you get beyond these, there’s a huge drop off in white. I actually think “good stuff” is a trap. I build to synergy so my cards interact to be more powerful than they are independently.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

if your opponent can pass turn with with 7 mana open in a blue deck and you don't figure it out, then maybe there's another issue.

[@SWNJim]

@@edhdeckbuilding it’s less did I figure it out and more can anything be done about it? Usually by that time, the answer is no and that’s why you kill the blue player first.

[@rorschach1]

100% disagree. White is finally not garbage. Red needs a boost.

[@Impath]

It's the cost for me. I really want to play mono white commanders but if I do I have to play at a handicap most of the time without using the new cards that have come out.

[@Executioner9000]

I feel like white as a whole is OK, but it does have the most power spiked cards. On a scale of 1-10, white is at a 7, but it has the most cards at 11, like you mentioned.

[@EnordAreven]

Red Needs More Love 💕

[@fishinfromscratch5484]

Personally, i wish folks would run more spot removal and less wipes. The mentality of "I'm behind so I'll just wipe" really makes the game un-fun.

[@mibbzx1493]

They need yo stop printing board wipes in all honesty. Farewell is already annoying asf then you gotta worry about triumph of the hoardes, doomskar, 4-mana depopulate, sunfall and all these other wipes. Its not fun at all playing against board wipe tribal decks and they continue to keep giving them more and gave them so much card draw in the last 3 years meaning they only get them more often now.

[@jolteon345]

As long as they give boardwipes other niches or flavor, they're fine. Look at Swarmyard Massacre as an example, it's another Toxic Deluge/Crippline Fear at heart but has the flavor that makes it more interesting. It's a player problem and not a card problem when the player decides to make that grindy 7+ boardwipe deck so they always have one on hand.

[@Exterminatedslushie2]

Hey, please can you add in the new white staples too, it would be good to get your thoughts on dawns hope, trouble in pairs etc etc.

[@sigtryggureinarsson5910]

I think it was a mistake to give white ramp and draw in this way. Should have doubled down on whites strength not just gave it green cards.

[@playwow2670]

Weirdly i havent see mono white represented locally at all im struggling to figure out how to build it because of it so thanks for the video ive been wondering why its been like this for a long time now 😂