What's the Best Free Spell in Commander? | Commander Clash Podcast 111

[@dylanthomas2393]

Time to reset the “Episodes since Swords to Plowshares discourse” counter.

[@andyspendlove1019]

We only went one episode without it because Richard wasn’t on the last episode 😂

[@atle853]

Swords answers Tomer's wins, but not Richard's. Tomer sees the value in it because it is a hole in many of his strategies. Richard does not see the value because it is not a hole in many of his strategies. Richard should play it, Tomer should not.

[@aramfingal]

I hope it stays at zero! 😅

[@PrimeShifter]

And submerge

[@nCedric1]

Good reasoning!@@atle853

[@EDtheIII]

Love this format. I really prefer this to the tier list stuff, at least with discussing more established cards. The tiebreakers are amazing as you guys form into makeshift 2v2s and it gets hilariously intense as chatgpt reads off her relatively random decision. In general, I think some of your best content comes when you're arguing; so attaching an actual win/lose to the argument works well. Really brings out the salt.

[@Princeofseance]

I would rather it be the editor as the tiebreaker

[@Spirited_skiing]

I want to see a underplayed card/shark tank bracket now

[@singularleaf3895]

​@danielparrott56 Tomer edits a lot of these so it doesn't exactly work.

[@Sinistra359]

Same I love the arguments and banter. There's so many different archetypes and ways to play mtg that it's always interesting to see people's opinions on cards. Definitely has made me rethink the cards I play and try out cards that I thought was "bad".

[@LedPESRule]

​@@Princeofseancesame, or Phil jumping in. I hated the ChatGPT tiebreaker, makes everything that came before feel irrelevant since it's just a stupid "AI" making a random decision.

[@keagancollins3243]

Love how you guys always find new formats to keep the convo unique

[@bandit2699]

This should be the format of your current tier lists. You don't have to do 32 cards each time, something like 16 or 8 going into a randomly seeded bracket with Chat GPT as the tie-breaker would be excellent viewing. Never before have you guys had as animated or heated debate - this was excellent!

[@LedPESRule]

Agreed except for the ChatGPT tiebreaker. It's annoying and makes the end result random and unsatisfying. Hopefully next time they can get Phil to jump in or something.

[@paradoxbees3280]

Watching Seth insist that Obscuring Haze is better than Force of Will is peak comedy

[@adammorin2955]

I refuse to believe that force of will is a good card.

[@trehenry413]

​@adammorin2955 you don't have to. Doesn't mean the card isn't strong though

[@adammorin2955]

@@trehenry413 it’s overrated

[@leoleo1035]

And it still is good. One thing does not nulify the other.@@adammorin2955

[@joshranger8541]

⁠​⁠@@adammorin2955it can be overrated and still better than obscuring haze

[@BobardeZanzibar]

I feel like this is one all time great episodes of this podcast.

[@j.m.manhard]

So much better than a sinple top10 or tier list. Keep it up!

[@light-chemistry]

This is literally the best podcast you have done. Please more episodes like this

[@etten4536]

I actually just stole a one ring with a commandeer a few days ago, it led to me making a comeback and winning the game lol

[@colecarmichael5724]

That’s the sexiest thing I’ve heard all day

[@RowanJanse]

Didn't expect gush to be missing! The bracket idea seems like a nice fresh take on the Tier List meta that has been going on for the last years.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

This was probably the best most entertaining episode you guys have done so far

[@TeaHauss]

Aint no way subtlety is better than endurance. With subtlety you temporarily counter your opponent's creature which they'll cast next turn and attack you with it for the rest of the game. Counter your opponent's 6-mana/voltron commander? You're their archenemy. Blink it? The whole table is locked from playing the game and will team up on you. Endurance has all the upsides Richard said, ON TOP of being free instant speed out of nowhere full wipe gy interaction. There is no better. Keep in mind, it can also protect YOUR gy from exile hate.

[@voidprism_studios666]

I mean subtlety stops a dockside win, thassa oracle, eldrazi, praetors, drannith, grand abolisher, etc etc... so I mean

[@Spaced92]

Subtlety has way more potential impact, Idk I don't like to rate cards on how likely I am to get hate from the person I stopped from winning the game. In casual Subtlety just seems better.

[@Sinistra359]

Thanks for your OPINION. The algorithm will remember that.

[@kennellfrederick4367]

yes, but what if the GY is irrelevant? Then the card is useless. Subtlety is always going to hit something. That was the flexibility point being made I believe.

[@voidprism_studios666]

@@kennellfrederick4367 Naturally I would agree with you however if I'm using Endurance, I'm using it on myself more so as a way to protect my graveyard when I don't have access to stifle effects. Black is a very prominent color so I think there's a likely chance to hit someone. But like you said not as much as a Subtlety does because no one can be playing graveyard decks but someone will always play strong creatures.

[@zylowolfzan3345]

I appreciate that Crim hates fogs so much, and also is probably the player second only to Phil who would benefit the most from adding them to his deck, considering how often he just ends up with an empty board, having barely any lands, and getting punched every turn for value by Richard's Dowsing Dagger-holder or whatnot.

[@tbclabamba8051]

Well a fog doesnt save you from getting attacked in multiple turns for value

[@gypsieking3280]

Some of these rounds discussions were hilarious. Props to the contributors for coming into each round with interesting perspectives.

[@arthurkeech]

I love how much argument happened over terrible cards. Truly great.

[@reefalefunk1244]

The suspense of the chat gpt tiebreakers was amazing 😂

[@thedoublem5238]

More of this format please!

[@spandytube]

"I would think Tomer out of all people would have a respect for Commandeer." That is cold as ice, Seth!

[@barrelrollio]

Force of Will > Deflecting Swat, especially in a low spot removal and foggy meta (looking at you, MTGGoldfish). When the meta shifts to board wipes, Force of Will is better.

[@TransformersBoss]

Mana Crypt gets excluded because it’s too good

[@Kryptnyt]

commander lotus as well I guess.

[@Kryptnyt]

and Qasali Ambusher

[@Sinistra359]

Chatgpt would say otherwise, not versatile enough. Lol

[@atle853]

Instants & sorceries

[@Sinistra359]

@atle853 but the elementals? Lol

[@OGTahoe3]

I run my copy of Endurance in Tayam because it's less than 3 cmc and can refill my library to keep the combos going

[@T_Peazy]

Yes. Taiyam supremacy.

[@syngentsteele5293]

I think Commandeer is more of a 3 for 2 because not only does your opponent not get their thing, but you get it instead. Kind of like a counter, and theft effect bundled together.

[@mewr11]

Richard: Shining Shoal has potential, you can pitch a four-drop to pick off one of your opponent's creatures. Also Richard: Swords to Plowshares is a bad card that I cut from all of my white deck. I love your brews, Richard, but holy moly do some of these takes not compute in my brain.

[@Donkishoot]

That was a ton of fun, great video! I think you could have actually seeded the cards maybe, like listing them by how much they are played on EDHrec and then go 1st vs 16th, 2 vs 15th, etc. This would have mean a lot of sweep on the first round (but these tend to be funny and are not too taxing mentally) and would probably guarantee interesting discourses on pretty much every match-up starting at round 2. Anyway, keep this up, I think this is way more entertaining than the tierlists video!

[@ADVBCAT]

Commandeer is not a "3 for 1". It is a "3 for 2". (Or rather, 1-for-3 and 2-for-3, since the "for" should describe the cost) If it just countered the spell, it would be a 1or-3, but since you get the spell, that's one more card of value for you. Which actually compares to Force of Will quite nicely. And really, any spell worth commandeering likely counts for more than 1 card of value. Like, stealing the one ring is technically a 2-for-3 if you free commandeer it, but it quickly pays for itself in terms of cards. Its main problem is it's very hard to actually have those two blue cards in anything but mono blue. But if you have them, you'll likely find a use for this.

[@Unknown360DD]

This has been one of the funniest podcast episodes you guys have done, I hope you'll do this again! With ChatGPT too of course!

[@kovala]

I live for this episode. ChatGPT showing up as the tie-breaker brought more chaos to the yard than a poorly-timed Warp World.

[@Bongus_Bubogus]

I’ve been playing Force of Despair after that one podcast, can confirm good. Especially in mono-black or non-blue decks, no one expects it. Great at stopping Avenger of Zendikar specifically, and if your opponent plays Semester’s End in their blink deck (a certain man named Cristóbal can attest).

[@arplee4823]

It was so funny tomer losing every single time to chat GPT

[@Sinistra359]

Tomer vs chatgpt let's go! Lol

[@jamiekuryla3940]

I do wonder if the wording for commander would make a difference on some of them, but not enough to ask myself.

[@scaredycat3146]

He won on Force of Despair R1, didn't he?

[@iheartlimabeans]

I love the 10 minutes of arguing in the first rounds just for two cards that have absolutely no chance of moving on again. (Sunscour vs snag)

[@Lucarioguild7]

Tier lists: 🥱😴 Brackets: 👌

[@RagdorUltron]

This episode is so good! Haha This is way better then the letter grade ranking episodes. 😂

[@DylanHunter64]

There is something incredibly ironic about Tomer and Crim advocating for a creature that sees almost no play over a card that is "good in cedh." Like, really? Why do you think it might see play in cedh?

[@zeroisnine]

Pact is very underrated

[@Sinistra359]

Would be interesting to hear what chatgpt has to say for each matchup, regardless of the score lol.

[@LedPESRule]

Why? It regurgitates the same bs each time and just makes a stupid random decision. I'd much rather have Phil jump in.

[@residentgrey]

I would like to know what it scans to generate a response.

[@residentgrey]

​@@LedPESRuleIt is not random. It seems to be reading some popular sites. I would like to know if MTG mechanics are already somehow installed.

[@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914]

yes but I'd like to see a 32 card with ZERO mana (free? no?) cuz i don't understand your video I though i would see 32 enchants or sorcery spells with ZERO mana cost... this is what i am looking for a good list of ZERO mana cost spells ! not creature spoells with MANA costs , how can these be considered FREE ???? what does FREE mean in MTG?

[@joshuadempsey5281]

Submerge is kinda OP. I love it. It basically reads: “unsummon a creature, they can’t play it again this turn, they skip their next draw”.

[@residentgrey]

It blocks their deck too. That is getting undervalued. Putting it at the bottom is also good but they will still have access to the rest of the deck.

[@andyspendlove1019]

A cheeky corner case for Reverent Mantra is it makes auras and equipment fall off creatures too, so it could hose a few specific strategies pretty hard

[@satsuki5679]

I love listening to you guys. Even though I don't even really play the game I love this podcast so much. Richard is so funny

[@flapjackwars]

somehow I knew y'all would miss Massacre, which can situationally outshine all these cards and has a really high floor. You can go back to any commander clash episode and quickly find a spot where a 0 mana drown in sorrow would be a massive blowout. It can be a onesided boardwipe, it's better against fast starts, it's one of the most slept-on EDH power cards.

[@itsCbomb]

1:17:45 My favorite tomar arguments are when he repeats back Richards argument but with the other card. It's so funny how it works almost every time.

[@KingSkinny-ww2pl]

I use Downhill Charge in Ojer Axonil Storm, once you start to cantrip or play some cheap ping spells with Burgi, or Urabrask, or Storm-Kiln out, you'll have a tapped mountain to sac and just add this onto the end of the stack, it'll resolve 1st making making your 7-8 copies of grapeshot do 10 damage each pretty easily. Snapback is obviously better at doing controlly blue things than downhill charge, but red is all about being aggressive and speeding up games

[@stephenandolino]

great podcast...some WILD takes haha

[@MentalCrusader]

I really like that you keep trying new formats!

[@laughingskuls7000]

Love the march madness bracket style format, should do more!

[@cassiemay2397]

Submerge is so good, I play it in cEDH and even play yavimaya to turn it on in greenless matchups

[@Bubblenuts13]

You guys should use polls for these episodes and reveal the poll after you talk about them. Maybe it won’t work for the later parts in the bracket, but it could be a cool tie breaker or just thing to see

[@brendanpulsford]

This was a great format! Everyone saying "oh this is an easy matchup" before vehemently disagreeing is hilarious.

[@Bdubbski]

As a Nezahal main, commandeer is so cracked. Any counter spell that lets you discard a card, or return islands as cost doesn’t matter when you’re always at 10+ cards in hand haha. Very specific but these decks do exit. Yesterday I was at 39 in hand, tapped out and had more ways to interact than people could really comprehend.

[@isteinbachs]

this was such a fun and funny format for a tier list I was cracking up this whole time

[@ben_clifford]

1:35:10 It's *gotta* be Fierce here. They have the same free-spell restriction. And since they're free, there's less of a timing concern (ie, other counterspells force you to leave mana up, making removal more attractive because you can fire off the removal a turn later).

[@mattduchan251]

Y’all are crazy! Commandeer is a 3 for 2. You spend 3 cards and get to counter the card AND take it for yourself. This is a better rate than force of will. The only concern is having enough blue cards to make it work. I think the consideration of casting full price also needs to be included in the ranking of each card

[@nathangrimes4173]

This was so entertaining, please do this format again!

[@godtiermtg]

I love this format of doing a bracket for a category of cards. I think I disagree with some of the picks, obviously, but I realized something. There’s not a single pitch card in casual commander that I would play over the 1-2 mana versions of the effect. Any of foil, force of negation, force of will, I would play counterspell over those in a casual deck. Fury is worse than pyroclasm or obliterating bolt, or lightning bolt for that matter. There’s exceptions for niche decks, like blue pitch cards in decks that regularly draw dozens of cards, or snag in my Shigeki deck, but otherwise every pitch card is bad to me.

[@jcomposer12]

I personally love Summoner's Pact in Casual just as an extra copy of some Haymakers in the deck. I played it in my Katilda, Dawnhart Prime deck as a tutor for Kyler, Champion of Lambholt, or other big anthem effects.

[@905LilO]

A little late but I'm with everyone else, fantastic format and episode overall, loved all of it

[@nfortin24]

good video.. will say a bit telegraphed on the final.. force and guardianship being in two separate halves of the bracket..

[@d.a.d.-ohgosh]

1st 2 cards and I'm like oh this'll be easy. No contest. Immediately needed a tie breaker lol

[@jebooiii6462]

I really liked this format! Please do it more often!

[@ben_clifford]

I'm glad we ended up with the finals match-up that we did. These were the 2 that popped into mind when I saw the title of this video.

[@plewcock2746]

Not that it'd change the grading, but any land with Island subtype can be discarded to Foil (and Forest subtype for Snag). It isn't just the basic lands Island or Forest.

[@RibusPQR]

This is very entertaining. I love how ChatGPT comes in and pours more salt on the discussion :)

[@Enos666]

This episode was amazing, relying on Chat GPT as a referee and having it fumble on confusing Snag with Vapor Snag had me crying with laughter. EDIT: I'm 100% with Tomer though, Deflecting Swat in the context of commander is just so much more usable than Force imo, unless you are heavily invested in blue, DS is so much more splashable, fits in any deck with red and doesn't put you down a card when protecting your commander and can even 2 for one an opponent in the process.

[@Kungfupeet]

I absolutely love this format, loved the battles.

[@urbaraskpraetor3316]

Pre viewing, force of will or fierce guardianship will probably take it. I'm hoping commandeer or deflecting swat take it Dark horse of snuff out, darker horse invigorate.

[@timbombadil4046]

The part not mentioned on Deflecting Swat is the ability to steal positive effects. What is better than outright countering say Eldrazzi Conscription? Redirecting it to your creature. What it lacks in versaility it makes up for with potential massive upside.

[@HypnoticGG]

Way better than the 100th tier list video. But you should have told ChatGPT you meant Commander initially

[@T_Peazy]

Round 1: Pact (green can probably pay for it) Endurance (instant speed graveyard hate) Deflecting swat (best redirect) Force of will (best free counter, dont @ me) Solitude (blinkable sword to plowshares) Misdirection (second best redirect) Commandeer (force cant hit creatures) Force of despair (free removal at worst) Mantra (forces through damage) Fierce guardianship (duh) Sunscour (snag only stops unblocked creatures) Flawless manuever (dont play grief in commander) Deadly Rolick (but its VERY close)(return to dust was great) Snuff Out (pyrokinesis doesnt kill everything) Snapback (but barely) Submerge (barely) Round 2:

[@mattie5097]

if you do this format again instead of random seeding seeding based off edhrec %inclusion would probably be good

[@wowomah6194]

I know Convoke effects technically aren't free, but they FEEL free. Lol. Wand of the Worldsoul for example I think should probably be a must have mana rock in any mono white or deck that has ANY white for that matter. If you want direct dmg out of white that is more effective than Shining Shoal, try out Mirror Strike, Honourable Passage, and so on. Those will deal direct dmg to the source instead of you. Also, Reverse Damage while it doesn't deal dmg, it ABSORBS any one source of damage from an opponent so it could suck up a 50 dmg ping from some bullcrap Niv Mizzet deck and then gives it to you as 50 life gain.

[@ElDocBruh]

That was a really fun one! I'm with Tomer, Deflecting Swat got robbed! Sure, it's not a counterspell, but it can redirect abilities, which catches everyone by surprise! How about you attach that Sword to your Wall of Omens instead, or my creature gets that Bear Umbra, or you trade my saproling for that Gilded Drake. Also, remember that Obscuring Haze prevents noncombat damage as well, might be relevant for all those Purphoros haters!

[@wchenful]

I would have put #1 Mana Crypt #2 Jewelled Lotus #3 Force of Will #4 Fierce Guardianship I may be biased as a cEDH player but having a blue card to pitch is generally an easier condition to meet than having your commander in play when an opponent is going off. Fierce Guardianship will be better when you're going off, but in a four-person pod, you're more likely to want to disrupt an opponent's win attempt.

[@kennellfrederick4367]

I'd put jewelled lotus at 4 or 5. I think it's a bit overrated since it can only be used on your commander.

[@wchenful]

@@kennellfrederick4367 Depends a bit on the commander and the power level of the table (but I would assume high if you're running jewelled lotus) - but it does lead to some super degenerate starts (things like t1 Najeela, Talion, Urza etc.)

[@nathanjohnson5088]

this was awesome! yall have to do this again!

[@ben_clifford]

1:25:55 I think this one is closer than they let on. When I build decks, I'm more likely to cut Force from a blue deck than Pact from a green deck. This is one of those where other formats can taint judgment.

[@baconsir1159]

Tomer’s logic for Foil also applies to Commandeer, but Commandeer at least gets you a card back

[@KingSkinny-ww2pl]

Force of Vigor gets rid of some seriously scary commanders, like Go-Shintai and the enchantment it makes on ETB, or Breya, Etherium Shaper and the artifact it makes on ETB. In a lot of cases I'm more likely to have a green card in hand than a commander on the battlefield, turn 1 blow up mana crypt and sol ring while still having turn 1 mana available for a sol ring seems good

[@briancain5162]

I loved the bracket format. Would love to see more!

[@samdalfthegray4495]

I'm dying at Seth smugly agreeing with ChatGPT on the "Snag" call XD

[@Orengi-kun]

I had to try the comparison between FoW and Deflecting Swat specifically in commander, and FoW still came out on top. Also, for some reason ChatGPT insists Deflecting Swat costs phyrexian mana lol: "Cost: Deflecting Swat is more accessible in terms of mana cost. It has a Phyrexian mana cost of 2 life or one red mana, making it easier to cast without specific color requirements." "Color: It is a red card with a Phyrexian mana option, so it can be more versatile in decks of various color combinations."

[@samuelswinamer4939]

Great format, would love to see more card tournaments.

[@samuelswinamer4939]

The AI adding contention to the group is entertaining. Could pit commanders against eachother, or Timmy cards in different colours.

[@andrewtaylor5883]

I'm not going to comment on placements however I will say that Obscuring Haze will (and has prevented) Non-Combat damage from sources like: Terror of the Peaks or Warstorm Surge etc... Which for me, makes Obscuring Haze much more than a fog.

[@xTGE]

I don't even use primal vigor but it's better than deadly rollick by leagues. Removing altars, mana rocks, rhystic study or stax pieces is much better then killing a creature when there are 1-2 mana kill spells in black

[@ImThatSmooth]

When you guys say commander, yall know CDH is included right. It’s not a seperate format, all the free counter spells are staples so that means they automatically go top tier

[@starmanda88]

Phew this was a very spicy 🌶️ episode. Loved every second of it!

[@lucasbreton4143]

Yoo chat GTP is fire, you should try it as a special guest on an episode!

[@SupahAwesum]

Are we not gonna talk about the downhill charge, target an opponent's creature? Its worse hatred, but the memes

[@stanislav_5312]

Having Chat GPT as unbiased guest is so funny XD

[@nycstreetpoet]

I think Summoner’s Pact is being overestimated because it puts a green creature in your hand, as opposed to on the battlefield.

[@Xenagos]

The thing deadly rollick has going for it over all the free counter spells is there are so many free counter spells. There's 3 of them in the top 4. This is black's only targeted exile effect.

[@tellable9425]

Subtlety is such a terrible card, I actually can't. Endurance is infinitely better. I cannot stress how much I'm team Richard on that one. Also. Fierce has gotta take the dub right?

[@DellogPlays]

I wanted to share my thoughts on the bracket format. First off, I loved it and found it to be hilarious. Now compared to the tierlist format that you've used for many podcasts. I thought that this was more entertaining than the tierlist format, but perhaps a little less informative/educational. Not a ton less informative. Just like 5% less or something. But either way, continue doing what works for you and I'll keep listening to these while I do dishes!

[@joeaquilino19]

Im surprised no one brought up the fact you can commander a force of dispair 😂😂😂😂lol ❤❤❤

[@rainevasquez662]

Tomer, you can't misdirect the the counterspell when you're trying to boardwipe. You need a boardwipe to stick, and they counter it, what will you misdirect the counterspell to? There is only one legal target.

[@Comptonymous]

You can summoners pact for subtlety, it’s gotta be better! 😂

[@amithemuffinman]

Except it can't.....

[@pumkinswift8263]

The Deadly Rolick discussion killed me. Rolick is an awful card. You don't want to cast single target removal willy nilly, you're using it to answer a card that's going to end the game. You want your spot removal to be on as often as possible. This is why the cheapest removal is the best, because it's so much easier to leave up one mana a turn to try and stop your opponents from killing you. The free cast condition on the Ikoria cycle is also the hardest to accomplish out of any of the freecast cycles, because it requires you to pay mana no matter what. The reason Flawless Manuever, Fierce Guardianship and Deflecting Swat are good is that you can play your commander and hold them as backup. I don't want to have to cast my commander to turn on my free removal spell, because it's so likely that my commander will just die. Not too mention that paying 4 mana to exile a creature is terribad. I'd rather play actual murder over Rolick just because it costs less, though i'd never play either of them. Force of Vigor is a much better card, even if it is narrow. You can always rely on it to pop something if you desperately need to answer an artifact/enchantment on your opponent's turns, and that's good because, again, you want to use your spot removal to save yourself from dying, not to remove random things.

[@microafro1979]

Great content, I love the ChatGPT mediation, that sh** is GOLDEN!

[@odditiescollector4540]

it would be interesting to see this done again but excluding counter spells as the scenarios being proposed in the cards defense always fall to "but i can just counter it"

[@zacharymartin4683]

100% run Summoner’s Pact in my casual tokens deck to get Craterhoof Behemoth. I honestly do not see how Force of Negation, Pact of Negation, or Fierce Guardianship could be better than Force of Will. Force of Will can hit any type of spell, does not require a later payment, and having your Commander on the battlefield is insignificant.

[@Byteside546]

Force of Vigor being slept on IMO. In EDH these days enchantments and artifacts are the synergy pieces that enable the boosts to quick victory (whether it is stax piece, damage/mana doubler, coat of arms, etc). When you're down without your commander, having a 0 mana double removal is so good. Also Deadly Rollick is just a swords you can play for 0 instead of 1. There is better single target removal but not a ton of better cheap artifact/enchantment removal. @1:35:45 Seth and Richard both agree non creatures are much scarier than creatures. So IMO Fierce Guardianship is better as it is cheaper and answers more, but I think Force of Vigor should have made the quarterfinals.

[@jamesclare1858]

Generally speaking, I think it's more reliable to pitch a card of the same color than to have your commander in play. After your commander dies once, it's a full turn & +2 mana to make those spells free again.

[@tommybrink1989]

Love Seths defence of Snag over Sunscour. It's so medium 😆

[@matustrophic]

ChatGPT is clearly a Legacy head and is tired of everyone assuming that Commander is the only format.

[@patrickschmidt6140]

There's 32 free spells? Time to build a five color free spells deck I guess