What Do You Want From A Game of Commander? | EDHRECast 219

[@Hexatomb]

The best part of edhrec isn't the average deck option, it's how it allows me to see cards I didn't even think of for specific commanders or themes.

[@tjeffrey3465]

It should also be implied that everyone wants to win on some level, even if fun is more important. I find it weird when players won't attack because they "don't want to make enemies" or when players roll dice to attack. Attack the person that ramped the most or the person that played the most spells last turn. I feel disrespected when players don't attack out of "pity" or the like. The conduct in games with strangers is very odd sometimes.

[@ellahazan-fuchs7249]

I do think there's a point to not making enemies. It is a diplomatic format after all. But I also agree that more often than not attacking is correct.

[@H.P.Clodcraft]

I hate when someone rolls dice to attack. Swing with conviction or don't swing at all.

[@MissingNovice]

If theres a clear person in the lead then yeah, absolutely swing that way if you can - but if you're the first person who can attack and nobody has an established board yet, I understand just rolling for it. Takes some heat off you later since nobody can argue you just targeted them for no reason. Same with if there are two arguably equal tier threats at the table.

[@jasonholmes5714]

@@MissingNovice attack whoever went first if all other things are equal. Attack whoever is playing green if you went first. There are always factors.

[@Xopher1222]

That's why I don't like that Atraxa deck they talked about. I like Olivia Gobert-Hicks but I dislike the intentions behind that particular deck

[@blakem000]

This is one of the best Challenge the Stats! I use both Lier and Snake pit in decks, and once again great info!

[@richardpitt8177]

‘Build decks you would like to lose to!’ For me this is the spirit of commander in a sentence.

[@rileypowell5354]

That's kind of ironic given how so many commander players can't take a loss graciously to save their life.

[@Zarbon000]

So not Atraxa?

[@stephenbradford8524]

Decks should tell stories. Maybe the stories come from the gameplay, but I love it when the cards themselves tell the story, too.

[@Controlqueen31]

I'd love to think that my Sisay 5C deck tells the story of a lot of interesting people (creatures/planeswalkers) that the protagonist of the story (Sisay) and her companions (creatures like Niambi, Raff Capashen, Tomik or Venser / and planeswalkers like Dack Fayden or Narset) meet in their journey. Marchesa, Tatyova, Ashiok, Gaddock Teeg...

[@jdogbemple1]

I’m happy if I’m playing 6-8 power level decks, nobody gets mana screwed, and I get to do one big Timmy play, even if it doesn’t win me the game. Bonus points if someone else does something Timmy-esque as well.

[@jamesgratz4771]

Suiting up a few powerful creatures and stroking down opponents. Or swarming the board with vampires before slamming Olivia to lead the army

[@djjmandos]

Within the price/power level you're able to play 1) You are attempting to the best of your ability to win the game and bring it to a conclusion as efficiently as you can. 2) You are seeking to disrupt and expecting your own gameplay to be disrupted and interacted with. 3) You set as few game restrictions as possible outside of the base rules of commander and magic. 4) You are a good sport whatever might happen at the table even if it doesn't go your way. 5) There is no expectation that everyone gets a chance to "Do their thing" such that you are making bad play decisions. This might mean that keeping someone around in a weak position makes sense if it makes sense to your end goal. BUT you should not let a player get setup or back into a game for the sake of feeling bad. Just end the game and move to the next where they get a fresh chance at it. It is always worse to drag a game out. You're likely making the game less fun for the table instead of just ending it as efficiently as possible. The whole problem with casual play is that you drag out games too long, causing people who are not really in the game to be dragged along until they've wasted and hour and half of their time. Commander is simply better for everyone when you have multiple shorter games and not imbalanced slogs that go on forever.

[@jordansams6240]

I love the games where stories were made. One of my biggest memories that i can never forget is back years ago i was playing angel tribal, and i managed to get big avacyn and true conviction to make my board indestructible and i was gaining a tooon of life every turn. Well my buddy whipped out a bonds of morality to remove her indestructability, and found a way to loop his demon of dark schemes to not only kill my board, but start reanimating everything. I managed to get avacyn back only for him to do it all again the following turn. He holds the record of not only removing avacyn, but KILLING her the most in 1 game because of that game

[@zackkelley2940]

How this is a .20 cent card I will never know. It's cheap to get out, draws you a card, is somewhat hard to remove as it's an enchantment, and it has the ability to shut off indestructible/hexproof at instant speed for a single green mana.

[@54m0h7]

You guys really expressed the meaning of the format. It's all about the fun and memories.

[@ncuco]

Hearing you guys speak gives the illusion that people who play magic are reasonable and considerate 😁

[@ArmadilloAl]

Hey, I'm one of those thousand people running Snake Pit! It's in my all-old-frame Kamahl, Fist of Krosa deck, and while it's been quite awhile since I've drawn it, I think I recall it working pretty well when I did.

[@CosmicErrata]

Everyone having agency in a game. Those are the best. One More Mana, love those guys!

[@VexylObby]

I aim for a more "board game" experience where people aim to have equal power, less blatant spiky intentions, each game plays wildly different, and there are no extremely explosive imbalances. This is difficult in this format, but it is possible when people talk about it and plan it out. OR when a person brings enough decks for everyone.

[@maelstromcarl]

I knew taking out Cyclonic Rift would be the most fun for everyone I play with, but I did not expect how much it would make MY play experience more fun. Winning is fun, but winning with OP cards feels forgettable.

[@Ianoxen]

Agree, I play casual borderline competitive but I always try fringe cards. The games I played in which someone wins by Thassas Oracle or a Dockside combo are forgettable.

[@abrahamdrinkin2534]

A lot of good points here. In my meta we play high power, high efficiency, fringe cEDH. Our favorite games are when at one point each person was threatening to win or when we have long 3 hour games over coming stax pieces (Drannith Magistrate, Aven Mindcensor).

[@loorky2126]

For me it's important in a game of EDH that people try to stop each other, without holding anything back that somebody can do their thing. That makes EDH for me a game and not just a bunch of people goldfishing their decks. Finding the optimal line with your janky deck is part of it at least for me. (It's important to note I don't mean being stax locked but just an interactive game because there I am also bearly doing anything :D)

[@Zarbon000]

Definitely. I can't watch the content creators play games, because they all seemingly have no removal and/or don't ever really attack eachother.

[@guidomista2570]

Cute lil wholesome conversations about everyone just having a silly fun time are fantastic content

[@MicahAlfordable]

Matt, I was listening and in the other room and then I heard MY name on the podcast. You're right. It is weird. Thanks for the show, guys!

[@zackkelley2940]

In a similar vein to Snake Pit, there is also Nature's Wrath. 4GG w/ upkeep of G: Any time someone puts an Island, Blue Permanent, Swamp, or Black Permanent into play they have to sacrifice an Island, Blue Permanent, Swamp, or Black Permanent. Particularly painful as it's an ETB trigger, not a cast trigger.

[@nickleewright]

Speaking of exsanguinate and torment of hailfire... I have those 2 in 1 deck. It is my mono black control that has 0 creatures (even the commander us the planewalker ob nix). When I play that deck I let everyone know prior (and make sure they are OK with it) that I will be the "bad guy" and will actively play the role of the villain. As a result the games I have played with it everyone seems to have had a good time.

[@BrodyTwice]

Nice! My kind of player, mono black for life

[@BrodyTwice]

Ideas like this make me wish everyone had access to tabernacle, nethervoid, and the abyss

[@nickleewright]

@@BrodyTwice lol... I wish... I have to make due with a ton of board wipes, removal and stuff like Tainted aether.

[@BrodyTwice]

@@nickleewright yeah I wish I had them too... I love tainted aether and spreading plague!

[@nickleewright]

@@BrodyTwice The deck was actually inspired by an old type 2 deck I won a few tournaments with back in the day... that deck ran 4 Necropotence, 4 Yawgmoth wills, and 4 ninervyls disks... unfortunately I can only play one of each of those in the commander deck version... lol

[@hermesthenerd]

the irony of snake pit is that it is an enchantment that hates on the colors that can't deal with enchantments. seems INSANELY good

[@Zookmottin]

I'm going to say it again. We need your programmers to get sugar scores implemented. It's super point our cards we hate, but it's not quite as easy to point out cards we want to see.

[@Niuttuc]

That last part about commander memories brings back the one that stick with me the most as far as commander was something that could have been anticlimactic, but was so absurd it'll always stick with me. After a harrowing, four hours game, we got into a situation where a Rule of Law was under a Knowledge Pool and everyone's spells had flash, allowing anyone to try to grab it and lock everyone out of casting spells if they ever got ahead. When someone finally went for it, I ended up grabbing a dimensional breach from the knowledge pool and casting it in response, exiling every single permanent on the board including lands and making us have to bring them back one by one. Not wanting to play it out at the absurdity of the situation after an already very long game, all players involved agreed to draw the game instead. It could have been a bad memory of wasted time, but since it was with friends and it was a blast to navigate, it ended up a great memory.

[@erickcolon1670]

Playing on tables with my wife has been amazing. The first time she was involved in building her deck was for Miirym and it was her first time using blue so witnessing for the first time her countering a spell that would have made her lose was awesome! Btw Another card for a miirym that has outperformed has been Cursed Mirror. Great card on its own and combos with the Mathematical nightmare that is Astral Dragon

[@Tvboy777]

Had to just chime in that Death Grasp could always target planeswalkers (sort of) through the old redirect damage to planeswalkers rule, but when they changed that rule they had to errata all the old "target player" burn cards to be able to target anything so they still worked against planeswalkers. Sadly cards like Earthquake did got nerfed by the change and can no longer deal damage to planeswalkers like they used to.

[@rileypowell5354]

my favorite games are the ones where every player at the table spent the whole time clawing and biting for the win. I also prefer when we get to see a mix of classic archetypes in the pod so that you really get to see the rock paper scissor aspect of the game on display. Make it fast, too! if our games are done in 30 minutes or less we get so many more games in every game night.

[@vanessaeve925]

I was on the fence about putting Snake Pit in my Dina deck. Thanks for making up my mind! I'll put it in for my next game

[@ConiferCreates]

addition to that last challenge the stats. Brudiclad. need I say more?

[@Ianoxen]

For me a good commander player simply knows how to play to win the most efficient and sure way. But a GREAT player is someone who considers the game as a whole which is that it is a social game and one should remember that there are four players in a game and involving everyone makes the game fun tenfold. I would rather lose in a crazy game with fringe cards and wincons and having a good time with strangers than win outright with a fast commonly played combo.

[@Odin2005mg]

The butter jokes were "margarine"ly funny

[@KeenanPayne]

Really wonderful episode ❤️

[@TheStephenation]

"Conan, what is best in Magic?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."

[@danacoleman4007]

Krom is your commander

[@morrius0757]

@@danacoleman4007 A little sad that WotC is doing a Frank Frazetta Secret Lair and it not being a Conan themed Lair, they could have reskinned Wyleth, Soul of Steel as Conan, Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons as Thulsa Doom

[@Blacklodge_Willy]

So I've had an Atraxa Enchantment deck probably since around 2018 and I was absolutely surprised to find out Olivia did the same thing. My main goal for the deck was finding an excuse to play black in a tuvasa shell. It's been a pet deck ever since.

[@lazysynergy]

Did you find a way to use atraxa's proliferate ability with said enchantments, I would love to know

[@geotle]

Shoutout to Dana for bringing up Snake Pit, not only super good effect, but super good Carl Critchlow art

[@ArkmageEDM]

38:30 the same thing happens with storm decks, one player takes half the gameplay and everyone who doesn't have a response just sits around and waits. also, if you wanna kill everybody, play crackle with power, spell copy effects. hilarious timmy play, 10/10 for my cousin.

[@lightfut]

I still remember the time Joey went on prof's stream with virdus and gorm and got virdus stolen, equipped up with all the swords of and wrecked the table

[@joefjunior]

For people getting KO'd early? Not always bad. Especially on spell table, that means I can go get a sammy.

[@rim956]

I'm currently building a The Council of Four deck and I need Matt's decklist NOW!!!

[@Ranis555]

Any chance we can get that council of four list?

[@jeffnosdivad3080]

The council of four has opened my eyes to a whole new universe of tomfoolery.

[@zizthesin]

I've been working on a riku "biovisionary" deck. the idea is tutor out a card called biovisionary - 1ug - if you control 4 of it on your upkeep you win So we try to get biovisionary and clones into play with counters to protect them.

[@Alico_Reborn]

I have a Phage deck where the goal of the deck is to die as fast as I can. It’s full of rituals to ramp out Phage as well as spells that let me pay life. One of my favorite cards in the deck is Plague of Vermin. I pay all of my life, but I don’t die until the spell resolves. How much life and how many rats will everyone else get?

[@hellcast1000]

The challenge with myriim is even better because when you are cloning a non legendary token it enters as a non token dragon so you get another copy, right?

[@edgarventura7497]

I'm a initiate on playing commander, I've started being interested about it in the pandemic, and I have a question. If you ever played a, or against a removal deck, such as Glissa the Traitor, that doesn't necessarily stays board wiping, and killing everything, it stays "politicking" removals, what was your experience? Did you enjoy it? I'm the kind of person that can't have fun, if others aren't having fun, and I'm very interested about those kind of decks, examples of other decks would be Vazi, General Kudro, Mathas and the Beamtown dudes.

[@leviangel97]

This is going to be tied to how creature dependent your opponents are

[@morrius0757]

Build a deck for the enjoyment of the whole table, play that deck to win.

[@zackkelley2940]

I wonder how Miirym interacts with Mirage Mirror or Mirror of the Forebears. Does Miirym trigger every time one of these changes into a dragon? They are non token.

[@zackkelley2940]

@@arcroy7 Pity. Would it have summoning sickness?

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Overcompetitive players are one problem, but there’s also a problem with people who want to play this game like a singleplayer experience, fiddling around the whole time with a weird setup then getting mad that they get killed before it happens. It’s akin to getting mad at people for not laughing at your joke even if it’s bad. The only reason there’s respect for absurd combos is because it’s a challenge to execute in a competitive game and you’re going to have to work much harder to win that way - demanding to get to diddle about with it by complaining about interaction and removal is missing the point.

[@leviangel97]

What do I want... I guess I want everyone to do interesting stuff? And I'd ideally have the winner beat everyone else simultaneously... or within a turn or two

[@stronggreenflame]

Wow never expected Joey to be a serial killer

[@karstdeboer4538]

I want a pod of 4 who know their decks and dont take crazy long turns because they cant decide on something to do. If your turn is long because you go off: absolutely love it, but please dont play slow 😀

[@Katia413]

ableist comment.

[@karstdeboer4538]

@@Katia413 ive got adhd, thats why i dont like playing slow, allthough i do accept it, but i just prefer playing faster as i lose my focus. Doesnt sound very ableist to me.

[@Katia413]

@@karstdeboer4538 i've got adhd AND anxiety, and there's nothing that makes me play worse than having people rush my turns because they can't learn to be patient and compassionate of others besides THEMSELVES

[@karstdeboer4538]

I never said i rush people, i just prefer playing fast, it doesnt mean i act on it. I generally am very patient in games and the number one thing for me is that everyone had a fun game. Sorry if I offended you in any way

[@andrewsparkes6275]

12:51 And then there is Crim, who delights with his Alela Stax deck...

[@bruisedfrog]

I too am a serial killer! #PineappleOnPizzaIsLegitimate

[@estabon3rd]

doesnt glasspool on miirym still make a non legendary token anyway?

[@BFG93]

Depends on the hand and deck. Some decks I enjoy thematically as they kinda tell a story, gaela is my DnD/MTG backstory for a elf character in a campaign. I have a jarad deck where depending which of the win cons i draw depends on my minimission for the game. Pull of X shenanigans. But some decks i just wana see work for love of all things MTG. Like some decks i swear are cursed and just never play well. Never draw right. Despite you seeing another wield it effortlessly. Specifically luck related. Bad builds are bad builds are ive learnt from many of them

[@ChristopherM.8]

I want edh games where timmy, johnny, vorthos, and melvin are able to vibe and have a saltfree game. Anything else is icing

[@spacefreak5064]

I am building the "Can't touch this" Decl atm. Ward, Shield Counters, Protection from Colour, Hexproof, Phasing, Indestructible, Counterspells etc Once it's a 1v1 you roll out the pump spells unblockables etc and swing for the win. Going for esper the 7/7 Giant that gives every creature of yours ward 3 Any ideas my dudes and dudettes?

[@Demotros]

A flip side to the content creators trying to make the shows entertaining is that they’ll speed things along for the show of it. I rarely see OG duals and fetches at all my tables. I see a lot more trying to build up a board, but content creators make it look like everyone is running multi thousand dollar decks.

[@whompcity9003]

I don't like when someone isn't trying to win. I personally really dislike Olivia's deck. If she wants to see how fast she can lose, she can goldfish her deck. If I'm sitting down to play a 4 player game, I want it to be a 4 player game, not a 3 person game and one person trying to lose first. Just isn't fun yo play against in any way.

[@dasblooop]

I want a commander to represent me, or to be a persona I can adopt; a unity of lore and mechanics e.g. I don’t think vampires should drain life by merely etb, they should have to attack/‘bite’ my opponents.

[@sheahon1179]

Can we get an Uping the Average episode on The Council of Four?

[@YellowEyedPuggle]

I don’t remember anything Matt said whenever the camera was on him. I was too mesmerized by the hair between the bottom of his nose and the top of his lip.

[@philippniemann8842]

Sorry, Joey, for the exsanguinate in my Leisa Deck 🙈🙈🙈

[@patstevenswhohatesbuttermi5861]

Don't deny it till you try it.

[@kawaiiwasabi644]

XD My exact reaction with Joey to pineapple on pizza

[@richardpitt8177]

This is great! However can we also talk about a splash of hypocrisy amongst some content creators (not yourselves). What I mean is: Making decks that are fun and don’t stop others playing their decks or monopolise time or win by fast combos etc etc for their recorded games. However, they then in other content talk about how they have no problem with fast combos and point out every obvious combo (with Phyrexian Altar normally 😂). How we should all “just shuffle up and play a new game”. They talk about how stax is ok like it’s a hot take and everyone should just play however they like, stating how cards like Tergrid aren’t ban worthy. Some even going as far as making deck techs of commanders like that with titles like “A Brutal Deck” etc etc. Or even worse have upgrade precon deck videos taking a casual commander and suggesting unfun upgrades: like a certain Kitt Kanto video. I believe content creators have the MOST power in shaping EDH. I appreciate content creators who take a clear stance (like this channel). But some of the other biggest content creators don’t do that…sadly! Leading to newer players to the format - who don’t have luxury of a rule 0 play group outside an LGS - being confused about what the hell EDH is about!

[@bonidc6732]

What is Danna favorite color?

[@mikaeljordan]

My best never forøget moment was with Planar Chaos. Everyone gets countered at random. Even made me win once. Played all my stuff with infinite treasures from the frentic effreet. Just had to survive one round. The other 3 had 5 answers in their hands, to clear the table, but they all got countered.... I laughed my ass of.... that was my best ever MGT moment for me. Had been passive for 1 and a half hour because of land destruction, but drew my Tavern Scoundrel and Effreet and had some coinflip luck 8)

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Personally I think that stax isn’t causal it sucks the life out of a causal game

[@hadeszero4526]

joey is a cereal killer confirmed ok 😂

[@andrewrockwell1282]

Pineapple belongs on pizza

[@nharviala]

I'm upset at EDH. I get hated off of tables for my playstyle, just because Tergrid, It that Betrays, and Grave Pact are my favorite cards... I don't even make them discard! It's just sacrificing!

[@therealmerf]

I don't get the hailing taxi joke.. :-(

[@zackkelley2940]

Hail as in 'to call or summon' and hail as in 'precipitation in the form of frozen ice pellets'.

[@therealmerf]

@@zackkelley2940 Umm oki I do get the double word play used but I guess I don't get the comparaison joke between hailing a Taxi or raining cat's and dogs.

[@zackkelley2940]

@@therealmerf There's no correlation, it's just a play on words.

[@ceroluthor]

Hey Joey I hear you need new co-hosts, ones that like pineapple on pizza, hmu XD

[@jasonmcelwee5933]

Every Miirym should have a double major in it. Heck, every deck with simic in it should have double major

[@dominicsandoval2214]

I love pineapple on my pizza

[@josephjohnson8473]

Something that I want in the content that I consume is a focus on the topic or theme of that content. I am becoming increasingly frustrated by content creators who mention politicized or sensitive topics outside the realm of the advertised content. This is the second time this channel has done this that I have seen. Great commander content but I’m out.

[@BrodyTwice]

See yah!!

[@abrahamdrinkin2534]

You like pineapple on pizza don’t you?

[@EDHRECast]

You won't be missed!

[@BrodyTwice]

Hashtag snowflake