Editing: Why Game On & Citation Needed Take So Long

We explain our editing process, and why it takes a long time between filming a series and releasing it.
Want to know what equipment we use? Watch this previous Park Bench!
The Kit List: • The Kit List: What We ...
MATT: / unnamedculprit | TOM: / tomscottgo

[@Timooooooooooooooo]

Part of the reason I love Citation Needed is because I feel like I'm watching a group of crazy friends in a fun conversation. Great job on editing it to make me feel that way Tom!

[@macronencer]

+Timooo I agree. Citation Needed 'live from the kitchen' works extremely well and I always look forward to every episode!

[@Max-bh8tg]

+Timooo Is this the timo from devtips :D?

[@Timooooooooooooooo]

Maximilian Lloyd It is! Hey Max! Great to see you here!

[@Max-bh8tg]

Timooo Good to see you too :D

[@magic_cfw]

I concur

[@NoozeCat]

Please do make a cut of Citation Needed, where there is nothing but laughter. Thank you!

[@mattandtom]

+Nooze Arts made one a while ago --Matt soundcloud.com/unnamedculprit/citation-needed-series-2-trailer

[@casperes0912]

+Matt and Tom That's great, Matt!

[@NoozeCat]

+Matt and Tom From now on I need to be more decisive on what I wish. Thanks!

[@warpedmjia]

Great, Iʼm 4 years late.

[@irgendwieanders2121]

@@mattandtom Tease and delete?

[@misslovedog8177]

4:07 and now we have finally reached the end of tom's weekly videos, kinda crazy i never thought I'd see the day and still be a regular viewer of his channel

[@josealvim1556]

I subscribed to Tom's channel because of the sciencecy techy content, and thus I was quite prejudiced against Citation Needed. Watched it once, never laughed harder in my bloody life. Best thing ever, all the episodes! Congrats

[@litgeek6391]

+José Alvim Right there with you. I actually have gone back and listened to all of the Tech Diff podcast episodes as well just because the chemistry between them is great.

[@dallasmyers2194]

@@litgeek6391 I really need to get that because I have basically memorized all of their video stuff from just heating it as I fall asleep. Started as I needed a break from writing a paper and put them on and after a minute I just leaned back and took a nap listening to them. Now I can basically repeat the gags before they happen... My mind is a dark, dark place...

[@NotKyleChicago]

And now there's a Technical Difficulties channel 🙂

[@CoffeeOnRails]

"OLD MAN RIVER!" Ahhh memories.

[@tiltedtesseract8210]

"Why did you pick that?" "You don't even know what i picked!" "No I don't, because he hasn't done it yet!"

[@CD3MC]

I for one would be interested in an unedited section/episode of Citation Needed. also it would be interesting if there was some indication of when Gary is "genuinely that fast"... either way, it's great as it is, and don't stress yourself out too much editing it.

[@98CookR]

I love how at 8:40 Tom describes doing what he did live at Evening of Unnecessary Detail, where Matt Parker pointed it out.

[@silaspoulson9935]

this is in his Emoji one, not the blocking people in real life one for those hunting

[@brettefantomet]

"The trying new stuff is important"-part is very important! someone should tell watchmojo

[@leepoling4897]

And buzzfeed

[@dylc413]

+Watch The World Burn basically any channel that makes "top X" videos...

[@ThePrimevalVoid]

Why should they? They're mining gold with all their shitty top ten lists.

[@57thorns]

For a serious channel with good quality and a smaller audience, it is important to move on before people get tired of the old content. For the top-10 junk channels this is not an issue, they just bunch together clips from everyone else and makes tons of ad revenue.

[@jankisi]

I can't believe ten y/o me actually watched top 10 videos and thought they were legit

[@neolexiousneolexian6079]

"Ruff! Ruff. Ruff, ruff ruff..." -Tom Scott 2k16, 11:04

[@TheExplodingBacon]

0:40 when you're not paying attention in class and the teacher picks on you to answer a question

[@PlasmaHH]

Yeah, editing, the reason why sometimes videos are not released in the order they were recorded because you couldn't be arsed to edit that big one, but had a brilliant idea on how to quickly edit the one recorded days later...

[@Fawkes42]

Nice use of the distractionator

[@AspelShuyin]

I want more tech and language explanations. That's what I came here for. I stayed because I'll listen to Tom on most anything he explains.

[@ragnkja]

Gone unlisted? Don't remove the series just because you don't want to continue them, just make it clear that you have no intention of making more of that kind of video, and let people enjoy them. A format that comes to mind is your "experimental cooking" videos, which aren't really my thing, but some people might enjoy them, though they should know that there aren't any plans to make more.

[@VDhorses1]

+Nillie I found them fun to watch ;)

[@ragnkja]

VDhorses1 Exactly why they should stay available.

[@TrabberShir]

+Elle Sea It's more than just easy to navigate. If you think that quality was sub par it may be goof to remove it because a lot of people that watch KZbin will semi-randomly go through old videos on a channel before deciding whether to subscribe. A small selection of several moth old videos can therefore negatively affect channel growth, especially if they have interesting sounding titles and interesting looking thumbnails.

[@jordanjohnson714]

Did I miss something in the video? What series got unlisted?

[@TrabberShir]

Jordan Johnson 4:21

[@farmvillepolice]

"Formal apologies to the nation of Chile" would be a great line to add into everyday conversation.

[@CaptainClueless01]

This is the second time I have seen Tom doinga soulful rendition of "Old man river" and I'm starting to get worried

[@HomerGumther]

"we just cut out the bit where is say *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*..." dear god that had me in tears... i love you guys.

[@ryuj7693]

So how does Matt feel about that smash cut now that he has seen it?

[@BoterBug]

Totally understand on the multicam editing being so much tougher. Mostly I do Let's Play series, syncing up video to gameplay and cutting out the bad bits, like you do with Park Bench. I recorded a series of board games, got three to four cameras going per game (depended on the game) and did graphics for a few of them, and it's a lot more work per video. Hoping for good response and I'm glad that Game On got good response for you - definitely makes it feel worth it!

[@jordylont1879]

I watched all of Citation Needed in a day. It’s amazingly funny.

[@iriscandy6377]

Omg

[@charliespinoza1966]

I agree with some of the other commentators, about paying to see the uncut Citation Needed. Maybe a charity fundraiser? **taps fingertips together** So many t-shirt ideas...

[@YumiSparkles]

I've been really enjoying Game On, I actually got excited when I saw a new episode out. I enjoy seeing these new creative and clever games, I'm just disappointed the season was so short. As for editing, I would be completely fine with like a one camera on the game and maybe one more on the players and that's it. It would reduce the amount of editing you need to do and I think it would still be just as enjoyable for me.

[@christinecrawford]

I just love you guys. Thank you for creating this channel! I have watched all of the many videos on Tom's channel and love them - especially Citation Needed! I have watched so many of those so many times and enjoy them each time like they're brand new to me! (OMG, The 1904 Olympic Marathon - I chuckle just thinking about that one! And can't forget the bonus material on that one - "ino, it's filled with goooo" 😂) Anyway, it's so fun to see the behind the scenes stuff here - thoroughly entertaining!! Thanks again!

[@SqueakCode]

I love your Park Benches, and this one has got to be one of the most interesting ones by far! :D I had sussed out some of the edits - but they look incredibly professional and just like a TV show pretty much. And as far as I'm concerned, Game On was a massive hit - since I was aware you were searching for people to do it, filming it and waiting for it to come out, I was on tenterhooks and it most certainly didn't disappoint! :)

[@BakerbrothertvOfficial]

I love these videos, you guys are really interested and tell great stories!

[@PrisonerZero]

It's great that you keep adding new video formats; it has definitely kept me hooked and consistently watching your channel unlike with other youtubers.

[@macronencer]

3:21 "clear thumbnails", says Tom... and then goes on to use the most misleading thumbnail possible for this video!! Was that a deliberate gag? :-P Seriously, I actually expected to see your editing going on, and was a bit disappointed.

[@grahamrich9956]

Probably meant ironically.

[@joebleasdale5557]

This was pre-"this image from this video," let's not forget

[@chaotician23]

Matt and Tom, "The thinking mans Ant and Dec", kinda has a ring to it.

[@Hannah_Em]

Great video as always - I love this format, it's sort of like "vlogging plus"

[@imobalizer20]

i would love to watch an uncut 2 hour podcast of the citation needed crew. just talking about whatever nonsense popped into their heads

[@OurayTheOwl]

love these tech videos. All the things i vaguely remember from school in an application i can actually see the effects of.

[@robertmathershaw203]

I must say, I was one of those people who started by watching one of your tech videos because I was interested in finding out what on earth the 1/1/1970 iOS bug was all about. I found your video and I haven't left since because everything you guys do is simply top notch. Keep it up fellas, thanks a lot!

[@ottergauze]

1:01 Has had me howling for 7 years straight

[@brc2396]

Keep making the new stuff! Love Citation Needed and Game On.

[@poolgool432]

Just saw you were mentioned on a +LinusTechTips Video because of your Emoji Keyboard :D

[@DumbdogsWin]

+Slaughter round Tom

[@poolgool432]

+Slaughter round For Hardware Linus, for Tech explanation and fun stuff and just General appeal of the host Tom everyday

[@shantanusinha2828]

Which video?

[@SVoided]

We need a little Matt and little Tom

[@TheAdaaamski]

"Things you might not know will end at some point" NOOOOOO D:

[@stationshelter]

+Adam. Well eventually you're just gonna know everything right?

[@NoNameAtAll2]

5 years, Tom only ran out of stuff in UK

[@SirMethos]

At some point, I would love to see an unplanned, unedited Park Bench episode. Where the only thing you've planned is the time and place you're going to meet and do the shoot. Just 10, 20, however minutes you spend filming, of the two of you sitting there, talking about whatever comes to mind, even if it's just small talk and in-jokes. I have a feeling that it would be just as entertaining to watch, as your usual episodes.

[@UltraPrimal]

You know they have multi-cam editing in Premiere. I think I've used it once or twice, but it's really great for editing multiple camera shots that need to be in perfect sync with each other. I believe you can even cut to different cameras as you're watching it and it will save your cuts just like if you were in the control room doing a live TV program.

[@eugenielegrand8590]

I have only ever heard "Old man River" sang by Tom. I now have it stuck in my head.

[@Mousy677]

I'm particularly amused by how. visceral. tom's reaction to jump cuts: the concept is

[@techy4198]

0:39 - 0:42 The most amazing sound a human could possibly make.

[@SamSitar]

great editing explanation.

[@ABuffSeagull]

I really enjoyed Game On, definitely gave me a few games to play with my friends. But I do want to say that you should always keep trying new things, because (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this) I enjoy pretty much everything you put out, no matter how different it is.

[@Rickmakes]

Lon Seidman (tech reviewer) uses a tricaster to "edit" his video as he is shooting it. It is pretty impressive considering he is camera person, host, editor, producer, etc...

[@JazzyJakob906]

amazing video as always! :)

[@stretchx]

I'd be up for watching the full 40 minute or so Citation Needed, There is something about it that, No matter the topic, I still will always enjoy it, I can't say that about too many series on KZbin! A full length Citation Needed would be great, Just an idea! :)

[@dan_tr4pd00r]

Is there some sort of uncut Citation Needed recording up somewhere that goes for the full 45 mins?

[@mattmcalister1915]

I'd pay for that

[@grahamrich9956]

I'd love to hear that.

[@charliespinoza1966]

Hi Ho Wolverhampton +

[@1224chrisng]

they'd still have to cut out the Libelous Jokes, such as the Derek Achora ones and whatnot.

[@glorylord6]

It would be really nice if you uploaded the raw footage from citation needed just linked in the description. Just use one of the camera angles like the one from the corner of the table showing everybody. It would be really amusing to the larger fans of the series and remove that slight bit of mystery that happens when a tangent starts but it gets cut out from the final video. I think it would be a really interesting watch even if it is an hour+.

[@traisjames2]

I want a full uncut episode of Citation Needed!

[@user-zw5jj2uf1p]

All that editing and working is worth it for your audience 😊

[@WilliamBoothClibborn]

If you either could be bothered or want to pay your editor a little more you could make a behind the scenes video for the next Citation Needed. Maybe a set of clips talking about the setup or just a compilation of clips if you all arriving and doing audience prep. A vloggy style video maybe.

[@mattandtom]

+william Booth-Clibborn I'm the editor for Citation Needed! We're going to try and do some sort of BTS video, but time may get in the way :) -- Tom

[@WilliamBoothClibborn]

+Matt and Tom Ah yes sorry i got mixed up between Citation Needed and Game on. If it is possible I think many people would greatly enjoy it and it could give a valuable insight for people trying to do game show style content with their friends.

[@InsaneGamersOfficial]

+Matt and Tom Does premiere have a multi-cam editing function built in? I'm used to Sony Vegas so whenever i've had to edit something with multiple "cameras" (I do video game things if you can't tell) I sync the footage up on separate tracks, click multiple cameras in the options and Vegas splits the view on the preview between them. I can then tell it what video and audio track I want it to go to for that shot. - Rob

[@OrigamiMarie]

+Matt and Tom I would argue that the editing on Citation Needed is a little too tight on recent ones. I just recently started watching Citation Needed and was confused at first because I tried jumping straight into a recent one. I eventually tried starting from the beginning, and then I understood them better and now I enjoy the recent ones. I dunno, maybe as an American I just have a harder time getting started on Brit humor. Anyway, I like a slower pace so I have more time to parse the jokes, and part of the fun is watching you guys fall into giggle fits :-)

[@spyone4828]

This does sound like an excellent idea for a video. It would need to be a longish video, but a "How do we make a Citation Needed Episode" video could be informative and entertaining. Tom, I would recommend looking at a series called Loading Time by folks you can find on KZbin called LoadingReadyRun. They've been doing sketch comedy for 12+ years now (they were doing 1 per week until a year or two ago), and Loading Time is a behind the scenes series they do. They used to do a behind the scenes video that would cover filming a single video, but lately they do a "digest" that covers a month.

[@UKcuber]

Things you might not know must never end.

[@jimmysgameclips]

I'd love to come into the background of one of these and do the spy briefcase switch they did on trigger happy tv

[@alexrichards1353]

I think we need a cut of every pun in citation needed with all the laughter included

[@TheSnappy121]

It would be interesting to hear you guys talk about failed pilots/video ideas at some point

[@1116101]

Could you maybe post the full version of an episode of Citation Needed? Would be interesting to be able to compare between the edited and the unedited versions

[@stupot89]

I prefer this to citation needed. Game on was awesome though, as well as that one with the bar billiard.

[@leepoling4897]

Bar billard was brilliant. I think I liked it so much because of Matt Parker and Dr. SingingBanana

[@justsammy2023]

I would happily watch the unedited citation needed's, even if as a behind the scenes. I generally find that long form episodes and the edited form are almost different shows, a bit like how Tabletop does it when they do longer episodes

[@ninjanolan6328]

You should release uncut versions of citation needed! I would watch that.

[@q-tuber7034]

Things you might not know will end at some point, because of diminishing returns... i.e., thanks to Tom we will already know everything.

[@MilitantPacifista]

I miss the Parkbench

[@Adam10H]

I really enjoyed game on, thought it was really entertaining! however, I found that I can was more I tresested in the individual games then the actall tournament/contestants. I think it would be cool if you had longer episodes dedicated to differed games like those

[@Wheeze_NL]

You talked about Patreon a little while ago, and I just wanted to reply that I don't think it should obligate you to make more or "better" video's. The nice thing is: you give people like me the opportunity to support you, for instance: per video with a maximum amount per month. You wouldn't even have to do it for a whole channel, a Patreon for a specific series might take some of your doubt away, because people would only support the "series" they like best. I only found your channels last month, but I like the content very much, if I could support it I would sign up immediately. Hope to fly to London if a liveshow would happen, I'd love to laugh along.

[@hukuzatuna]

Tom, when I was dabbling in video editing, I read somewhere that for a motion picture it takes approximately 90 minutes of editing for each minute of production video. I did several theater productions with five cameras and multiple audio tracks, and it seemed like it was more three hours per minute of production video (perhaps I'm just a rubbish editor). How much edit time do you need for a minute of production video?

[@ZipplyZane]

Knowing that cut method is also good for figuring out misleading edits in interviews. Especially if it's a reaction shot, which is the easiest, and you can even record them after the fact.

[@timmcdaniel6193]

I like the ending, where they're just looking off at the view.

[@hornylink]

I wanna watch an uncut episode of this and an uncut episode of citation needed, just the one would probably be enough though

[@MrVinney96]

So, when will we see a full Citation Needed lineup on the bench with Gary, Matt, Tom and Chris? You said that it would happen...

[@ZipplyZane]

Especially now that you're doing live shows, I think it would be much easier to do an unedited version, just with live camera switching.

[@Socken1255]

It occurred to me just the other day that you always sit Matt-then-Tom then same way 'round in these like Ant and Dec, and I wondered if it was intentional or just habit...

[@tekvax]

how do you keep the audio in sync with the video? with all those cuts and clips and cameras, it must be insane to keep the picture locked to sound!! do you have a timecode EDL and auto-conform everything?

[@jav6315]

What video editing software do you use? And in Game On how you had the pre-game explanation with he virtual counters, which software do you use for that?

[@flamaniswow]

I'm curious about those games that you tested for Game On, what other games did you guys make/test? And can we possibly have the list of rules for each?

[@umgubularslashkilter9272]

excuse me, you four trying not to laugh is very much entertaining

[@niels1917]

i would like to see a rought Citation Needed, just a multiview of the camera's without cuts.

[@maxximumb]

Citation Needed - The Out-Take Show and the blooper reel.

[@Morbius907]

Just an idea, there has got to be a park bench in a pub somewhere.

[@dave5194]

Where did you find the games for game on? Some of them really interested me, but when I tried to look them up on the internet, I found no mention of them

[@aDifferentJT]

Can you publish a list of some of your unlisted dead stuff for big fans

[@dnielbloqg]

6:16 Oh! So that's why you said "The camera can't see you." when Gary did his victory dance back then.

[@nloomans]

Can you upload an unedited version? I would like to see the difference.

[@Seegalgalguntijak]

Why unlist videos of a series that didn't work out? And if 'Things you might not know' ever stops, will the videos at least stay visible, or will they go unlisted as well? I hate losing youtube videos.....

[@requiembeeblebroxx]

Of course it would be that clip. It's iconic in the strangest way.

[@noodlesthe1st]

Hey Tom ever considered uploading uncut videos? I mean perhaps on a seperate channel (yes another channel I know) but just upload uncut videos that we otherwise wouldn't get to see or have been heavily edited? I know that many Tom Scott fans want to see extra content, even unedited content. it seems like a relatively low effort way for to still get to see some awesome stuff even if we have to sit through boring parts!

[@azyfloof]

~Stops at 2:38 to say "And that is something you might not have known", in Dec's voice~ :P

[@JoelHudson]

Tom.. That Was ruff.

[@InfiniteWonderz2]

livestream a series of cameras while filming citation needed

[@casperes0912]

Well, I disagree with your opinion on jump cuts. I mean, Jean-Luc Godard, who originally invented the jump cut, used it brilliantly. I agree that for the most part it's not a good way of cutting, but if done correctly, it can work amazingly. I'm currently editing a short film that'll have three consecutive jump cuts followed by a match-cut and that actually works really well I think. It's all about context. On a separate note, it's funny how enjoyable it is to watch this, in spite of already working as an editor. I mean, I'm not yet professional, but under education, but since this is all basics, it shouldn't be this enjoyable to listen to you guys saying it... But it is.

[@aDifferentJT]

Please can you detail all the software that you use

[@EmmaLiza]

What was the original context for that clip, Tom? Why were you singing Old Man River, why was someone filming it and why were you doing so in the snow?

[@notorioustofu3482]

Citation Needed live show = Citation Needed XL!

[@RainaRamsay]

OK, but why DID you choose that clip for the smash cut?

[@CoffeeOnRails]

+Raina Ramsay Because we all need to hear the amazing sound of Tom Scott - Singer

[@RainaRamsay]

Oh I'm not complaining; it was awesome. Plus I love old, ponytailed Tom. But that's why _we_ love the clip. I want to know why _Tom_ chose the clip.

[@CoffeeOnRails]

Raina Ramsay Same.

[@happyboblovesyou]

+Raina Ramsay Where is that clip from? I love old ponytailed Tom too!

[@orangegreenn]

+happyboblovesyou It is from the battle of the beer no. 2 (the technical difficulties).

[@607]

Haha, you're great!

[@magetolight]

I wish we could edit out the time between videos.

[@NijosoSefzaps]

Do all the points given in Citation Needed get put into the final cut?

[@cxmer7n]

"Just do the intro!" "BWAHAHAHA"

[@nacoran]

How do you send large files? I've had problems even getting large audio, let alone video sized files from one site to another.

[@rjhelms]

I don't know what Matt and Tom do, but at a certain point (especially with video) the files get big enough that sending hard drives by courier is the. most efficient way to go.

[@callumhayes9628]

What happened to that live event? Is it happening?