EEVblog

Dave shows you how to reverse engineer a PCB to get the schematic. In this case the new Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope.
How does the discrete transistor analog front end and the software bandwidth limiting work?
How do you decode SMD transistor codes?
How does it compare to the old Rigol DS1052E?
Dave also discusses the low voltage ohms function of a mulitmeter, how it's useful, and how to test your multimeter to see if it will have any issues with in-circuit testing.
Review Summary: • EEVblog #703 - Rigol D...
Full features review: • EEVBlog #704 - Rigol D...
Teardown: • EEVblog #674 - Rigol D...
Jitter Problem: • EEVblog #683 - Rigol D...
Jitter Problem Fix: • EEVblog #699 - Rigol D...
Forum: www.eevblog.com...
Schematic:
www.eevblog.com...
www.eevblog.com...
DS1052E Schematic: rigol.codenasch...
Links:
SMD codes: www.sos.sk/pdf/...
www.digikey.com.au/Web Export/Supplier Content/MCC_353/PDF/MCC_SMD_Marking_Codes.pdf
Datasheets:
MMBFJ309L JFET www.onsemi.com/...
www.analog.com/...
BAV199 Diode www.nxp.com/doc...
BC856 www.nxp.com/doc...
Fujitsu FTR-B3 Relay www.fujitsu.com...
Cosmo solid state relay: www.cosmo-ic.co...
TL072: diodes.com/data...
74HC4053: www.nxp.com/doc...
TLV274 Precision Quad Opamp: www.ti.com/lit/...
AD5207 Digital POT: www.analog.com/...
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
/ eevblog
EEVblog Amazon Store (Dave gets a cut):
astore.amazon.c...
Donations:
www.eevblog.com...
Projects:
www.eevblog.com...
Electronics Info Wiki:
www.eevblog.com...

[@UOttawaScotty]

This Dave Jones character is pretty amazing. It would take me 4 lifetimes to come close to the depth of knowledge he has.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Quick solution to looking at inner layers - take a trip to a vet or dentist & get it x-rayed.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Re They charge for it - of course they are willing!

[@abcefg3813]

mikeselectricstuff can the x ray's do any damage are there components you would not want to X-ray

[@wuggypuff]

paul hill By doing a quick google search I found this www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001027.htm

[@gillianseed4419]

paul hill they say the chances of an x-ray flipping a bit in a flash cell are infinitesimal, however i have heard stories of it happening with particular x-ray machines. personally i would mask off any flash chips with lead before doing this

[@Sockkerbagarn]

paul hill I had my laptop x-rayed at several airports when i flew to Africa. It still works =)

[@Aerospace02]

Excellent episode, EEVblog (Dave). I've seen every episode up to this point and I must say I prefer episodes like this. I enjoy soaking up your decades of experience. I realize it's a lot of work to put together an episode with this much content, but well worth the effort in my opinion.

[@mikehorrod4367]

Fantastic work. I would love to see more of these reverse engineering teardowns. It really shows how the design comes together and how the manufacturer thought out the production. Best video so far.

[@azyfloof]

I see you've finally upgraded to the latest version of DaveCAD! Exciting times :D

[@BenjaminEsposti]

Dohn Joe's comment is very disturbing. Have you even watched the WHOLE video? I did. Dave is just interested in how these circuits work. I highly doubt he is trying to copy their design. Don't just assume he has bad intentions. I highly appreciate the work he has done to get all these videos and knowledge out onto the internet where anybody can access them. It's a big help for others, like me, who are interested in a future EE career.

[@YensR]

5:45 If you have a photo editing software that supports layers, then you can put the two images on different layers of the same document. Set the upper to 50% transparency and align/adjust. Crop the document so that everything is contained in the same rectangle. Then, for printing, set the upper layer to 0% transparency and print, then to 100% and print.

[@QlueDuPlessis]

YensR It's called G.I.M.P. and it's a free download. ;)

[@YensR]

Aadil Shah There are other options, too.

[@ronbrown8611]

Yes

[@sourcedogDE]

"Always have a rubber on your pencil." Made me laugh :P

[@logikgr]

New channel from Dave...EEVBlog Afterdark ;)

[@1622steve]

Dave's Australian. If he were trying to be funny, he'd have said "franger".

[@Atristiel]

Must not make pen 15 jokes, must not make pen 15 jokes, must not make pen 15 jokes....

[@eyeTelevision]

This was the quote for my upvote.

[@eimparas]

Tobias Schenk what I can't really get it ... 😅

[@TurboAdam]

So THIS is what Dave's been up to for the past few days. I was starting to worry!!

[@Dibblah1900]

If you have a larger board and a via disappears, you can also use a stainless steel pan scrubber as a "really big probe" to narrow down the area in which it surfaces again.

[@wesleymays1931]

And then, of course, once you've found the rough area, you go back in that part of the board with the normal multimeter probe.

[@groovejet33]

2nd time ive watched , theres no videos like this available anywhere! Depth of info and effort...Top marks

[@svetsch]

Wow, thank you soo much for your hard work here. It is really interesting and your approach is very pedagogical. Thanks for sharing so much of your knowledge. The quality of your videos is great. I'm really a big fan.

[@EEVblog]

Samuel Vetsch Thanks, appreciate the support.

[@petevannuys5642]

This is Chinese New technology equipment for high quality !

[@victornpb]

I don't usually rate videos, but this definitively have my like. Please, more like this.

[@rowlandcrew]

I like the intellectual logic. EE and proud of it.

[@Washburn-rr5eh]

Excellent video! Your knowledge is truly amazing!

[@davecc0000]

Another brill vid DJ! Don't shoot PCBs up close, use zoom from far away to eliminate paralax(?) error (getting only 4 leads of a DIP-8 pack). More rev-eng vids!

[@timrotunda2226]

Great video, as usual, but I was hoping we would be looking at the finished DaveScope towards the end.

[@hfd484]

Dave, I think I love you.LOL, but seriously, thank you, these tips are genius.

[@untitled8027]

hey dude, seen almost all of your videos now.. Just thought i'd say i'm a huge fan. Thanks for all the knowledge and all that jazz :)

[@EEVblog]

Forrest Simonds You're welcome.

[@andreblue_]

Cool. Now I have a urge to try this with an old rc car board I have just to learn it by practice.

[@EEVblog]

Andre blue Do it and post your results on the forum!

[@hinz1]

Nice video, expecially since I did some PCB reversing too, not a long time ago. Some tips: A nice (microfocus) Xray machine helps a lot. I did the same thing with photographing the PCB, but using the individual images as layers in GIMP is probably better than printing it, since switching layers is much quicker than swaping overhead foils. If you mirror the bottom layer, you can even get the vias to match.

[@mg-gk2dm]

Chuck Norris should be interested in fights, not electronics..

[@djscottdog1]

I was going to say ab xray might help with the traces but you said it at the end . Great video

[@rymannphilippe]

Thanks Dave. Really interesting. I'm not 100% in the stuff but you really give me a nice, close look in the electric engineering.

[@Cybeonix]

Love this video Dave. So many great tips, I appreciate the effort!

[@Deckardsvr]

Very interesting, nice work Dave !

[@reginaldmorton2162]

I needed the reverse engineering lecture but he fryed my brain at the end... Thanks from sfca

[@stonail665]

Ty for the effort Dave .lets desolder the caps : )

[@hubertrybak]

good old Dave is back!

[@MegaCyklops]

Puh. Dave, nice work here (yeah, i skip the part with the Multimeter) - Perfect start in the day ^^ - Have a nice day, from austria (yeah, austria not australlia!)

[@derstrom8]

Excellent video, thanks Dave!

[@blackmanops3749]

I was reluctant to click on the video thinking "clickbait; waste of time", but I am glad I did. Very useful tips across the board (pun intended).

[@joshcryer]

You never cease to amaze.

[@marciolimas]

Hello Dave. I think you could take some amazing macro photos from your PCBs for us to use as wallpaper. I'm from Brazil and love your videos.

[@RoadRunnerMeep]

I'm basically reverse engineering a shredder (PS-77Cs from Fellowes). It's a bit of a headache, but easy when you get used to it, it's helping me learn the multimeter a lot. I have to be careful there was a jumper hidden under a DIP too.The hardest part I found was transferring it to a software (easy EDA) for example my wiring was very messy. It would be nice to find a software that you can use which you wire everything up and then it generates the PCB and layout for you

[@kalhana_photography]

Just a few days ago I was testing for solder bridges between pins of a few 0.5mm pitch ADCs that I soldered to a PCB when one of my friends told me that it could potentially damage the chips. So I measured the voltage of the continuity function of my U1273A and I got ~3.3V as well. The manual says that the test current is 0.65mA, so maybe it's not too bad. Ignorance was bliss!

[@michaelhawthorne8696]

Nice Video Dave, what you need here is the Gerber files, that will make things a little easier, although I doubt Rigol will release those for awhile or ever.....

[@roastbeef82]

Thanks Dave, nice tee-shirt 😊

[@ChartreuseKitsune]

Perhaps you can test if that is the bandwidth limiting by using a high bandwidth o-scope and measuring before and after the filters, and see if they correspond to the model you have.

[@VladPalacios]

Very Usefull!! ThankYou Dave!

[@WestCoastMole]

Nice work Dave. Doing the Electronic Super Sleuth work is not easy.

[@thehooride]

Hi Dave! For even clearer shots using a tripod, try using a remote trigger or the built-in timer to release the shutter. Albeit small, pushing the shutter release button does shift the camera while it's taking the picture.

[@EEVblog]

Gerard Vogel I do use a 2 second timer

[@miniman2864]

+EEVblog that not what he means, by using a remote trigger, there's no movement of picture making it easier to compare... however may be wrong :)

[@groovejet33]

+Harry O'Brien yeh i think your wrong!!!

[@adamruck]

lol dave... "always have a rubber on your..... pencil"

[@SonicBoomDIYcom]

"DaveCAD" - that shit had me in stitches. :)

[@marky26uk]

Great video, really enjoyed watching this as i have your other videos, keep em coming :)

[@NathanLegg]

Use a mirror on your workbench to save having to peer behind what you're testing. Pro-tip from an old Electronics Australia magazine :) 15:45

[@witgrzesiak5176]

Excellent !!! Very useful video. Thx.

[@Jimmy_Wog]

Nice!!! Love your work!

[@EEVblog]

I uploaded it a minute ago, you haven't even watched it yet!

[@ralph9987]

EEVblog just smitten i bet lol

[@BplusJequalsFire]

great video excited for more!

[@Sockkerbagarn]

I found a Back To The Future citate in this video!! :)

[@myetis1990]

CAD stands for "computer-aided-design", I recommend using this: "DaveHAD" Dave Hand Aided Desing :)

[@ElectricBlakeGames]

Really like your videos! Keep up the good work. :)

[@helmutzollner5496]

Welldone!

[@notebookpro]

Amazing!

[@楊皓宇-c4k]

Excellent episode !! 2022

[@spikester]

Dohn Joe You wouldn't have most of the stuff you have today if it weren't for reverse engineering. The PC you have today was originally reverse engineered. Get a load of this guy folks, he must work for the MPAA, the way he spouts the usual hyperbole regarding "Intellectual Property".

[@mediocrefunkybeat]

To add - if you're learning electronics, reverse engineering is a really good tool to use to figure out yourself how things work. It's not about 'stealing', it's about curiosity. I know next to nothing about electronics but I find this fascinating because of the potential learning implications. If you can figure out how things work, you can start to design your own circuits that improve on the original designs in one way or another, be it cost, etc.

[@teardowndan5364]

I do not think those switchable 560pf and 820pf caps have anything to do with the 50/70/100MHz bandwidth limit: the differential amplifier's output has an impedance of about 50 ohms and the trace most likely terminates into a 50 ohms input ADC. An RC filter with 25 ohms resistor and 560pf cap would have a cut-off of about 11MHz so it seems those caps are for anti-aliasing filtering at low sampling rates.

[@ericeverton2669]

While I agree that those values don't seem to add up for BW limiting, I am not sure they are for anti aliasing either. The cap combinations give 3dB bandwidth (assuming the 25 ihms from above) at 11Mhz with C=560pF down to 4.6Mhz for both the 560pF and 820pF turned on. I would be surprised that an antialiasing filter with such a low freq would be required.

[@mark314158]

Hmm ... If you have a "low-end" product whose spec makes your "high-end" line start to look overpriced. Then make your low-end product easily hackable. Everybody wins. And you sell lots of low-end product without affecting the high-end.

[@38911bytefree]

Guess that they not too much worried about reverse eng its prod, even the can give you the .bin . hex. .s19 whatever files they burn in. The HARD KEY is that, no matter you do, no matter where you buy it, you CAN'T low this OBSCENE retail price, but, yeah, you can improve it fo corse. You can improve BW, still they will sell the 60 Mhz ones and as you hack those, the 100Mhz upgrade will be go so cheap that you will get lazy just to hack it. Gotta love this Rigol guys. Nice Vid as usual. you need to do some contest and give away one of those =)

[@jhallenworld]

(at 31:40) Surely that's a VGA, not a straight diff amp.. with the gain control voltage coming through the HC4053 from some DAC somewhere. It looks like "Caprio's Quad" and the RC network emitter degeneration between the legs is for further linearization and bandwidth flattening, not bandwidth limiting. I'm suddenly interested in this due to the high cost of VGA ICs..

[@KOTR2003]

In the photo editing software you could just overlay them and do your tweaks there, rather than mucking around with printing it and adjusting it that way. Just overlay one of the layers ontop of the other and put a transparency on that layer to see both sides.

[@marksolivan6685]

its very help full thanks a lot

[@Anonymouspock]

Yay, a video.

[@yaghiyahbrenner8902]

Dave Cad Pro, with reverse engineering editor.

[@RomanTecDev]

Dave, very captivating video, as always. Only forgot to show on the board which are the caps to remove filtering bandwidth)) I wonder what the difference is compared to DS1202z-E/1102z-E, no teardown for those?

[@excite236]

For inner layers what if you heat the board and then take some pics with your thermal imaging equipment i think that could be a good solution.

[@H32-u7d]

4:26 that is genius!

[@SerajMondol-z6z]

Nice 😊

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

Anyone else catch the drop down menu on the search bar?

[@zaprodk]

Yep :D

[@markussteinbacher8807]

Wonderful. Please do more of this ! so if I desolder this small signal transistors for filterswitching I can have full bandwith ?

[@garylcamp]

Dave, if you were born today, you would be diagnosed with ADHD. Where do you get the energy. Maybe not, you have too much persistance for ADHD. You are just fantastic. I have tried my hand at reverse eng. and it is so tedious I never finish even little circuits like a pules catcher. I wish I could give you more than 1 thumbs up. Also, very very interesting and informative. I just watched EEVBLOG # 1 and what a difference.

[@istvanmatyi9077]

+Gary Camp You can give "two thumbs up" by donating him...;-)!

[@lewinday5612]

Great video. Looks like you're running out of space on your hard drive!

[@victornpb]

Removing these caps would remove the limit?

[@Coolkeys2009]

Will you be putting a test signal into the scope and checking the waveforms to verify it works as you expect?

[@EEVblog]

Coolkeys2009 Yeah, I want to do some more playing. Unfortunately this a loaner, so I don't want to go desoldering stuff. Have to wait for my own unit before I do that.

[@Coolkeys2009]

EEVblog I was only suggesting probing to see if a test signal was filtered as you expected and maybe checking the levels on those filter transistors when changing modes etc.

[@cameronwebster6866]

EEVblog when you get your own can you show us what comes in the box? I am considering getting one and cant find any info on that.

[@Coolkeys2009]

Cameron Webster Dave can you do an un-boxing video of the new scope.

[@markboldyrev8321]

Hi, Dave! :D

[@Kamtar34]

I hope that we will get a review. :(

[@Damicske]

Where's the left channel?

[@stuartkerr7725]

CONNECT YOUR ESD TABLE TOP GROUND CABLE DAVE!!

[@robinsattahip2376]

Rigol does not publish schematics or repair manuals?

[@vampifrog]

Ketch ya next toym!

[@LachambredeNico]

Where can I download Dave CAD ? :-)

[@unlost117]

+oldmac6 I use my own personally created Mick CAD. But it its not supplied with rubbers on the pencil. Little micks everywhere !

[@miloradowicz]

I've heard it's cheap as paper, but the learning curve is super steep.

[@Edw590]

Can the middle layers have components on them? 🤔

[@AlainHubert]

Is there a reason why the trigger level on the DS1054Z has to be so high for it to work ? Anything below about 640 mV is not triggering with a triangle wave on the 1.00V range with any trigger type selected, even with adjusting trigger level offset.

[@jnicoulakos]

I think helps if the unit is not functioning as id did and we can repair them on our own. Just my two cents.

[@serggorod1423]

21:14 The nut core! Ядро без шолухи!

[@serggorod1423]

Всё очень классно и необходимо. All very cool & nesossory. But 21:14 is for re view(ing)!

[@serggorod1423]

28:28 good compertition. Хорошие сравнения!

[@TheSlowGrowth]

Is it possible that what you thought is the vertical position control is actually changing the gain? I mean: The bottom tap of the EEPot that has a question mark in your drawing could actually be connected to the output of the amp and thus close the feedback loop.

[@robinsattahip2376]

Doesn't Rigol sell schematics or shop manuals?

[@damonstr]

D:)aveCAD is awesome!

[@NaokisRC]

Dohn Joe Or maybe reverse engineering for learning's sake or just for interest?

[@EEVblog]

Naoki Saito Dohn Joe is just being a troll.

[@krawutzimon]

EEVblog looking at his channel he actually seems to be much worse than just a troll, but hey, it's the internet, you've got all kinds of crazy people here.. thanks for the video and sparing me taking apart my own ds1054z :)

[@redtails]

krawutzimon That's the best part, the internet is a fairly well-selected bunch of people; everyone can read, write, comprehend basic English necessary to interact with the machine.. In daily life and street social interactions, even those standards aren't present. Think about that for a sec and let it sink in

[@maxsnts]

could you ground the bases of the transistors and bypass the software control for the bandwidth?

[@GeorgeGraves]

thumbs up!

[@leeunderwood8623]

Is there a site where people share these?

[@paul.alarner6410]

dave,when are you going to sort the childish mods out on your forum?

[@sean8081a]

I thought multimeters put out a current to measure resistance, then measure the voltage drop to calculate resistance?

[@ThegamerIdiotgenius]

+sean craig Yes, but if the current they put out is too strong, they can actually make it around the circuit and back by going through other components (e.g. diodes), resulting in an effective short out of the signal.

[@RickyGrizutti]

Can expand the memory?

[@wesleymays1931]

So then desolder those four transistors on the differential output for higher bandwidth? (The ones switching capacitors in and out)

[@norbert.kiszka]

Better will be to desolder those caps only.

[@T3sl4]

The TL072 should go back to the tail bias mux, betcha dollars to donuts. :)

[@mrakmrakmrakmrak]

I found it really surprising that the vertical positioning is done by hardware and not by software. Can somebody elaborate on that?

[@leonerduk]

Martin Oak In order to get the 1GSa/sec sampling rate, this is already a crazy fast rate for an ADC. It's only an 8 bit ADC. If you add/subtract a larger number in software, that doesn't give you much range on the input of the ADC for any real signal. Whereas, if you have software create an output offset voltage that can be subtracted in discrete hardware like this, that lets you use the full dynamic range of the ADC.

[@rabidbigdog]

Dave is an indoor Australian, nearly ranga; highly freckled.

[@NilsJakobson]

And remember - always have a rubber on your pencil 👌

[@mr.jimmydean1980]

always have a rubber on your pencil.... ill remember that. maybe ill bring an extra just in case!