EEVblog 1534 - Solar Freakin' RAILways!

[@ukzoinks]

Lol for all the reasons in the video. Also, in the U.K., trains have grit dispensers that deposit it on the rails by the wheels when needed to improve traction, e.g. wet or ice on the rail. And almost every week here there are weekend line closures for maintenance. They have to do a lot in a very limited time windows and now they would have to factor in dealing with the panels too.

[@SeanBZA]

Do not forget the leaves on the line as well.

[@6581punk]

And the toilets emptying down the middle.

[@miscellaneousstuff6346]

not to mention, the jet of water from an RHTT would just instantly destroy it

[@mgancarzjr]

And the thermite. Let's see the thermite hit the panels.

[@Skelath]

You also forgot that you have panels costing 4 figures each just sitting there, in the open. Unguarded, no one around for a hundred kilometres, no camera's.

[@donondre7314]

I have an even more betterer idea: Solar Freakin' Subways!

[@KeritechElectronics]

And solar-powered submarines, haha!

[@-MrDontCare-]

And solar freakin' wind turbines. 😅

[@6581punk]

All those dark coal mines that could have been illuminated by solar power. Could even put the panels on the helmets of the miners.

[@mgancarzjr]

​@@KeritechElectronics you can install them in place of the screen door!

[@gilb6982]

For that application you need " Black mather panel "

[@whirled_peas]

I’m just imagining a minor mechanical failure that leads to a rod or something dropping between the rails but remaining attached and just wiping out millions of dollars worth of panels in one journey.

[@Kirillissimus]

You don't even need a failure for that! It can happen during normal opetation! Just a medium sized branch fallen from a nearby tree can get stuck in break line hoses or electric cables and here you go bashing everything between the tracks at high speed without the driver even noticing anything until the train arrives and the next routine inspection is done.

[@InsanePacoTaco]

Aren't there detector stations that check for this? Hot wheels, hot bearings, hanging equipment, etc

[@w__a__l__e]

that is called economic stimulus :P

[@derkeksinator17]

@@InsanePacoTaco yes, but not every 100m...

[@InsanePacoTaco]

@@derkeksinator17 True. Something closer to every 5 or 10 km? That's a lot of destruction.

[@TheLobsterCopter5000]

Alright, now hear me out on this one, how about: Solar Freakin' Runways! Think about how much sunlight hits runways at airports! Planes landing on solar panels is the future!

[@2009dudeman]

Funny enough, Solar Freakin' Taxiways is a smarter idea than either of these. At least then you can build strips along the taxiways where most planes will never apply pressure from the landing gear (in fact, we are even going to create a mechanism where the panels are automatically elevated such that they are just below the average height of wings, but higher than the ground to prevent debris from engine blast from kicking over them. Ignoring the dangers of glare 50 yards to the right of a runway you are trying to set a 777 down on... And the myriad of other issues. I think we are ready to goto the government for a grant. We have already put more thought into this that any of these other solar***ways crowds.

[@GMC997]

@@2009dudeman Keep me up to date how it goes.

[@DrunkenUFOPilot]

And of course the flight decks of aircraft carriers = perfect places for solar panels!

[@hawkins1384]

I know it is ambitious and crazy, but hear me out, this will work. Solar Freakin's Transatlantic Shipping Lanes!

[@Klemmi.]

German acoustics engineer here who has done research in sound emission of train wheels. 1st: when a train passes by... Forget the dust. There are stones flying around! 2nd: when the wheels roll over they deform themselves and the rail so that they form a contact zone of a few millimeters in size. The forces are just crazy. This zone is able to transfer acoustic energy really well. If they press the panels in as shown.... Even if they use some rubber.. they get shaken through well. 3rd the wheels are not just flat on the bottom. They have a special shape so that the train does not derail. Therefore they create outward force on the rails. Not sure how long their system will stay in place at all.

[@erkinalp]

Sleeperless tracks like they do in high speed and rapid transit viaducts?

[@tay-lore]

Flying stones won't crack silica... right?...

[@lolman2425]

Long shot but do you know the research with Alstom from TU Berlin? I saw a really interesting presentation at DAGA

[@slartibartfas0428]

Just let us for a second ignore the fact that there are stones flying around, let's just for the giggles think, there would be some kind of "gorilla glass" that could handle that, and maybe they would make the panels not covered from glass but as a form of a foil like the flexible panels you could get nowadays for some camping purposes. (Yes, of course I do know that the flexible panes don't have the efficiency, they would not be targeted directly for the sun to get efficient sunlight, and and and... But just let's do this suggestions that it would be possible). You know how the stones or the sand around the rails is changing it's colour to some red-ish or even black colour. That would happen to the panels as well if they would not get cleaned and polished up again and again every few days or at least weeks. Who would do that and how on a string of several 100 kilometers? Plus, how would all the electricity, being produced on such a long string, get transported to where it is needed? No, you won't do that by using the rails itself, would you? (Put some sticker on the rails saying: "Don't step the rails for being under high voltage"? And ban all trains from that rails as their wheels would short the segments! )

[@hartmutvonknallundzubumm9073]

@@tay-lore My cars wind screen tells me otherwise, but I should perhaps put in a solar ways panel instead of a wind screen.

[@brucesmit]

I "love" how the train station itself doesn't even have solar panels on the roof.

[@kvykimo]

naaah, thats not innovative enough

[@jasonriddell]

me thinks "lets build a canopy over the tracks at the station and put panels up there

[@otherssingpuree1779]

@@jasonriddell Think for a moment, how will you run a train on a station canopy.

[@kroketkat4872]

Rotterdam's central station in the Netherlands has this.

[@Andrewza1]

​@@IUSSHistory dude he said one station in there most Modern city has solar pannels

[@retrozmachine1189]

It's not just bad for the panels it also makes basic track maintenance a headache. It's not unusual for the spikes or spring clips to work lose. A crew or single man shows up and manually hammers it back together or uses a track mounted machine to do the same. Now imagine having to disconnect and roll up a length of panels and then put it all back in place just to knock a spike back in. Something that previously took a couple of minutes now takes an hour. Well done.

[@douglasboyle6544]

An hour? That's being generous. Considering these are electrical components and attached to the grid there'd be all sorts of precautions that need to be taken and that might take a day to get clearance to do the work.

[@SuperVstech]

Not to mention the staff needed to address the high voltage of the equipment…

[@wtmayhew]

In certain countries the additional labor would be considered desirable employment security. 😊

[@mrcomment5544]

"Startup discovers that you can photoshop solar panels between railway tracks."

[@MacRabbitPro]

Just to get the record straight about the vibration Dave mentioned: I live in a small town in the west of Germany. We have a railway track running through the town. I live about 500m away from the railway rack with 2 streets with houses and trees between us and the railway. It is far enough that you don’t hear the trains, when our windows are closed. But if the heavy trains from the steel factory in our neighbor town come through once a day, the glasses in our kitchen cupboard are shaking! And, as you know, we build very solid houses in Germany.

[@alexdrockhound9497]

i live 1280m from a track and the light fixtures in my house rattle when a train goes by.

[@ShadowWhippler]

yah living in Finland about 600m from a railway track, only cargo tough, and not too often. But about couple years ago there was a huge issue of some old russian train carts being used and going trough here with wheels that were pretty much oval. Everything shook and you could hear the clanking, it was insane.

[@joseluisvaiksnoras7857]

Here in Brazil, a well-known chronicler called Nelson Rodrigues used to say, back in the 70s, that "Idiots are going to take over the world, not because of their capacity, but because of their quantity. There are many of them"

[@TS-jm7jm]

he was wrong only in thinking idiots were going to take over in the future, they already run the show, its only thanks to a proportionally tiny segment of any population who have the skills and intelligence to keep things ticking along.

[@hartmutvonknallundzubumm9073]

Way too many, and many people seem to have lost the ability to disprove a "good" idea from very "nice" guys.

[@TS-jm7jm]

@@hartmutvonknallundzubumm9073 you are mistaken, most people have *never* possessed that ability, and this has been known and documented for *over* 2000 years at the least.

[@RemcoStoutjesdijk]

I'd half expect them to suggest powering the train directly from the panels. As everyone who played with trains as a kid knows, trains run on 12V DC.

[@frank2398]

The more outraged Dave becomes the higher pitched his voice becomes so eventually only dogs can hear him.

[@ultimaIXultima]

this made me lol, haha

[@SeanBZA]

First downside is that you often get dragging parts on trains, so you will absolutely get the panels being destroyed by the first train that is dragging a coupler. Also sleepers are designed, along with many of the cars, to provide the clearance for things like bottom discharge cars, so the panels cannot be installed without relaying the rails, unless you have an alternate route to send cars that are correct dimension for rail transit. Easier to actually use the existing pylons, and add on a simple frame to the top to join the pylons, to support the panels above the rails, and also get easy access to the existing power infrastructure along the rails.

[@IanScottJohnston]

Nah!, they'll not get destroyed.....they'll be stolen long before that.....:-)

[@SeanBZA]

@@IanScottJohnston Hey, the train laying them probably will have a dropped coupler, so breaking them before they even see light for the first time. The USA rail system has automatic checkers, that both check for hot boxes, and for dragging, along with identifying boxcars with open doors, and these have been around for decades, so it is a big enough problem to have this in place. remember a locked axle can destroy a lot of track very fast, and cost millions to replace.

[@Marci124]

You'd need to turn entire sections of track into big roadway crossings with no access to the sleepers or other parts.

[@monad_tcp]

The problem with pylons is that you must construct additional pylons

[@tookitogo]

While I don’t disagree with the ultimate conclusion, the clearance argument is completely false, at least in Switzerland: railway road crossings here have the pavement up to the same height as the rails. Consequently, trains have to be designed under the assumption that there is no space whatsoever below the top of the rails.

[@polishguywithhardtospellna8227]

They could also put USB charging sockets in the railway track, in regular intervals, like every 3m, so we could all socialize next to the tracks and charge our phones. Endless potential 😅

[@tmc200527]

Last time I was on a train in Germany I was surprised when I flushed the toilet it opened onto the tracks below. I had to google to see what the latest is and found this. Some trains in the Netherlands and Switzerland feature composting toilets. These toilets use bacterial action to break down solid and liquid waste. Broken down clean liquid is released onto the track beds after being sterilized, while the solid waste only has to be emptied every half year.

[@DavePoo2]

The trains that go across America carrying coal end up an average of 4 -17 tons lighter at the destination from all the coal dust they lost during the journey. The coal in the train cars can't be covered due to the danger of combustion. (source "From The Ashes" documentary).

[@f.f.s.d.o.a.7294]

Interesting

[@michaelwilkes0]

wow

[@AaronCMounts]

This comment should have been couched in some relevant context. Coal trains across the USA carry an average of 13,000 tons of coal, each.

[@f.f.s.d.o.a.7294]

@@AaronCMounts So, ballpark they lose around 0.1%?

[@ultimaIXultima]

@@AaronCMounts ok, but the point still stands - you have 10 trains going across every so often, and some of that dust falls on these stupid panels - who's cleaning them?

[@hanneshiller6132]

Trains at speed create huge air pressure wave in front of them and a significant under pressure beneath. When I saw that dinky suspension mounting I could not stop from laughing out loud. I imagined the cloud solar panel debris following the train engine as the pressure differential rips the panels out of their mount and smashes them at the underside of the train. 😂

[@doktordumb]

I had the same thought. The first train thats going faster than an old lady in the church aisle will shred the panels into silica gel pellets and broken dreams. But who cares? The money will be long gone.

[@cpedersenatgmailcom]

Think Neo flying to catch Trinity 😂

[@calvinthedestroyer]

The rails flex as trains pass over so there's a good chance all the panels will crack after the first 70mph coal hauler

[@foobar201]

Any commuter train will flex the rails by at least 1 cm, no coal hauler necessary.

[@Bigrignohio]

This is hilarious! One dangling hose fitting or chain can destroy an entire run of these.

[@cheeseparis1]

They couldn't put solar panels on my roof, it vibrates too much from me laughing at your videos and yelling about how these marketing guys are bad! Thanks for your videos

[@domiNATEion]

Perhaps 100% of Switzerland's energy can come from attaching a solar panel to Mr. Scuderi's head with all his bright ideas... + Bonus: Thick skull = vibration dampening

[@fredbloggs5902]

I don’t know about Switzerland, but in the U.K. many train toilets discharge directly onto the track.

[@6581punk]

Plus we have a lot of diesel trains which kick out a lot of soot and would coat them in no time.

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

Actually very few trains discharge onto the tracks in the UK these days and they are being phased out.

[@TheUglyGnome]

I knew The UK is a third world country after all, but discarding toilets on tracks? We haven't done that for decades even here in Soviet Finlandija.

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

@@TheUglyGnome when it comes to railways and the UK you have to bear in mind that they suffer greatly from being first, often by decades from other railways around the world.

[@tookitogo]

Swiss resident here: -most trains here now have closed “bioreactor” toilets, but some old rolling stock with outhouse-on-wheels lavatories still exist.- EDIT: the last ones were phased out in 2018, so all Swiss train toilets are either bioreactor or simply collect in a tank like an airplane lavatory.

[@user-ur7wd2zp2v]

Has anyone suggested solar freaking rooftops? It seems like it would work better

[@EEVblog]

Elon Musk stoll that idea from decades ago.

[@fredbloggs5902]

Nah, that’ll never work 😂

[@retrozmachine1189]

Mate, what a bloody brilliant idea. Solar panels on the rooftop ... of the _trains_. No need to worry about damage from passing trains and even better still, if they are mounted on a passenger train they'll get cleaned when the train is run through the wash shed. This is going to earn me a fortune!

[@j.f.christ8421]

@@retrozmachine1189 Too late dude! Byron Bay in Oz has a solar-powered train. Dave's even got a video of it somewhere.

[@retrozmachine1189]

@@j.f.christ8421 Ah yes, but this is where the sheer cunningness of my plan comes into action. My panels don't just run the train, they are also wired into the grid so any excess earns feed-in tariff too!

[@jay-em]

I was waiting for this video. I'm not disappointed. I love how the brackets short the rails sending the signals to a red aspect. Unlike the road authorities, the railways employ electrical engineers who won't allow them within a mile of an operating railway.

[@MarcoTedaldi]

Sadly, it's politicians and managers and not engineers who decide such stuff... It's a shame!

[@TS-jm7jm]

​@@MarcoTedaldi ehh, if its a fight between gov officials and the electrical safety guys, im leaning on the safety guys, they can be worse than bureaucrats, mostly because they are next level bureaucrats.

[@johnstephenalbert]

I love how the trains, tracks, ties and ballast depicted in their 3D animation are looking so pristine. Everything is *so clean* ! The rails are literally gleaming, polished bare metal.

[@thanthanasiszamp4707]

Until some rats start chewing the cables!

[@eslofftschubar206]

@@thanthanasiszamp4707 there are enough cable already on the tracks. rats seem to have a non-chew-agreement with the railroads.

[@eslofftschubar206]

The tracks in Switzerland are actually very clean. except for the rust where it is needed of course.

[@dbg2644]

To avoid the snowy conditions, they start with the track through the tunnels. They have loads of them in Switzerland 😅.

[@Spookieham]

Best Comment here!😂

[@notsure5583]

hypersolarloop roadways

[@cbhlde]

Finally a good idea! ;)

[@slartibartfas0428]

Maybe there were also some minor other root causes for them having their trains going through tunnels! 🤣😂

[@johnwest7993]

I have an idea! Why don't they put PV panels in old salt mines! They will be safe from hail storms and will never get covered with snow! I need to get a patent!

[@alexhajnal107]

And no corrosion issues since the salt's already been mined!

[@johnwest7993]

@@alexhajnal107 :)

[@absurdengineering]

@@alexhajnal107 D’ohh!

[@jdmjesus6103]

If you put lights in the tunnel, they'll work even better!

[@DrunkenUFOPilot]

Interesting, but I won't be able to help fund it. You see, I'm busy with the pioneering new technology of deep sea solar panels. This will be a real conversation starter!

[@boriss.861]

Laughed my socks off when I saw this as the press reported on it! Having to re-bed the sleepers quite frequently! All the vibration!

[@dylantowers9367]

Swiss railways use track circuits for tracking (pun not intended) which bit of the rail is occupied by a train. If those arms used to lock the Solar Freaking Rail panels in place aren't well insulated they'll short the track circuit in every block they're attached to and bring the entire line to a halt because the system will think there's a train sitting in every block. EDIT: I just remembered that this would never be feasible in London. Parts of the Underground actually go above ground, and they use a fourth rail located right in the middle of the four foot, used for current return. Right where these panels are supposed to go.

[@k34561]

Just imagine how much damage the first student walking down the railway tracks from school will do to the solar panels.😲

[@mbak7801]

Nobody walks down the tracks. They almost all have well maintained tarmacked paths running next to the rails designed for people to walk on.

[@tillon111]

An other issue is the high voltage used for electric trains (some systems have 25kV between overhead line and rails) along with the high transients fields when a train passes. Signal lines running along train tracks usually have multiple separate isolated metal shields to prevent induced charge damaging the signaling system. Electrically isolating solar panels in the train tracks is going to be a nightmare... along side all the other nightmarish issues this idea has.

[@crabby7668]

There is also all of the lubricating grease and oil from the moving machinery dripping onto the track. Plus the signalling system if using track circuits must have the two tracks isolated so the mounting studs on these panels would need to be isolated from each other.

[@InnSewerAnts]

Rails also sag when a heavy train rolls over and different bits of rail sag more or less. A lot of panels would just crack from the forces trying to bend them when the very first train passes over I think.

[@castform57]

The part of two things solar panels hate the most reminded me of a common issue with people and saunas. Lots of people want to bring electronics into a sauna, a place that is hot and wet, when the two things electronics hate the most are heat and moisture.

[@hommadi2001]

Next idea million dollar idea: "Solar Bathroom tiles" You turn the lights on to take a shower and get infinite energy.

[@jerome1lm]

This is brilliant, lol. And unlike with other perpetual motion machines you woudn't even have issues with friction.

[@verifiedgentlemanbug]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ophawku]

Dave. That's a perfect use case for, "Wireless Power" transmission!

[@Kirillissimus]

Wireless power transmittion is generally very inefective but there is a solution! Just snap your trusty old Batteroo Batterizers on the panels to compensate for the lost enegry and you are golden!

[@breakfast7595]

I had someone trying to say that it was still a better idea to wirelessly charge your car because the "cables wouldn't wear out". As if there's some epidemic of cables failing. These people are delusional.

[@madaggar9765]

I like how the sleepers are just floating on the rock texture. Yes, this is absolutely going to be viable.

[@koma-k]

... and in the video they're wood... I think the last wooden sleepers were replaced about 30 years ago here in Norway.

[@ct92404]

@@koma-k In the US, we still use wooden "sleepers" (we call them "ties"), but most major rail lines are starting to be replaced with concrete, especially passenger railways.

[@gdrriley420]

@@koma-k That isn't all that rare in many parts of the world. New wooden ties get deployed all the time in North America.

[@pelleschwartz6475]

I love the ending, where you put the idea into perspective. It really shows how you should do a comparison of pros and cons vs other existing solutions if you are considering something innovative. It's really a 101 on product development / innovation.

[@kamilZ2]

1) If anything similar to hook below train catches a single panel than a chain of panels will pile out below the train. In extreme case, it might derail the train. You negotiate anything except security. 2) During first winter all panels will be removed by snow plow. 3) Panels will distort rainfall-water, more at sides than in the middle. Possible result is soil sinking at sides and accelerated corrosion of steel rails. There won't be any wind or sunlight at lower side of panels, it may be permanently wet. Possible results include corrosion, growth of vegetation, expansion of ice.

[@NoLandMandi]

I wish I could share some images from my train station, the rails and space between them are absolutely covered by metallic dust from the wheels and breaks, and usually, the dust creates some kind of stalagmite shape around the track except the very top of the rail which is in contact with wheels! perfect to short electronics and perfect to reduce the efficiency to nothing!

[@frankowalker4662]

Have you seen the amount of stones and oil that gathers on the sleepers ? LOL. I can see these shattering as soon as the first train rolls over them. :)

[@johnwest7993]

Do they know where the refuse goes when an Amtrak toilet gets flushed? BTW, I picked up used eight 10 Watt PV panels at a ham swap for $3 each because they were covered with so much crud it was very difficult to even know what they were. After a good long cleaning with 3M green pads I noted that they had been stamped the property of a railroad company. Even the ground 20 feet away from a RR track vibrates when a train goes by.

[@Kirillissimus]

There are places where you can put your hand on a wall of a building and feel the vibration whenever a train comes by from at least kilometer away. You can barely hear the trains but you can feel how everything is shaking.

[@tookitogo]

Heheheh! While _most_ trains in Switzerland now have self-contained “bioreactor” toilets, there is still some old rolling stock with the “hole in the floor” style lavatories…

[@PeterShipley1]

Amtrak toilets do not flush on to the tracks. (brown water) although sink and shower water does. (gray water)

[@KoRntech]

Not bad find for battery maintainer panels. I have good luck on marketplace for portables panels for my Bluetti for Field Day or POTA.

[@artistjoh]

It is a myth that train and aircraft toilets just flush sewage out a hole in the bottom. Might have happened back in the 1800's but not on modern trains.

[@kaziq]

Looks like it will be very easy to steal the panels.

[@PowerScissor]

Shhh... I live next to train tracks and need some panels.

[@Slikx666]

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that. 😆

[@urdnal]

We’re talking about the Swiss here. Their response will be “…but stealing is illegal!”

[@martinkuliza]

I guess we're all going to be salvaging parts then :P

[@tondebruijn5424]

I was about to post that. Ty for beating me to it. In the Netherlands there are problems with thieves stealing copper from the overhead electricity lines without getting electrocuted. They sell it as copper for a fraction of the price it takes them to replace. So I wonder if these panels will break before they are stolen. It's going to be a close call.

[@andythekitsune]

I'm sure these panels will hold up great when a flanger comes along to remove snow between the rails. Lol

[@rasungod0]

you would probably have to remove them in the fall till spring. And Switzerland is not a good place for winters.

[@flexairz]

Oh no, the will be burnt away by the energy from the panels.

[@laurentallenguerard]

2:00 The trains in Canada also drains the toilet directly on the track and those rocks are full of sticky toxic oils and broken parts of very though metals train parts that failed after too much... vibrations!

[@Uffeful]

Interesting to see how it will work in snow and cold weather. Normal tracks can have issues with ice and snow in Sweden. I can imagine its the same or worse in Switzerland. Fun to see where the panels go if they run a snow plow over the rails.

[@nghermit4922]

Dave, look up thermite rail welding, I just saw one yesterday and they leave weld/slag on the inner vertical part of the track, so I guess they can’t lay it either. Haha.

[@DrunkenUFOPilot]

Ah yes, I saw a video on YT about that. Fun stuff, great for ruining nearby solar panels!

[@jennadordor]

I followed back when the first solar roadway video came out. I can't believe almost 9 years later they are still doing it. I feel like I already know how this is going to end. xD

[@MikeB_UK]

Great shout out. Ignoring all the other craziness about this idea, those panel fixing rods look awfully like the train inner wheel flanges would contact them. From a quick search, the wheel flanges often go down to about 50% of the rail middle section. Can't see railway standards people approving that. Imagine the carnage if a wheel hit a fixing rod that then started flipping panels as a train went over.

[@RinoaL]

Oh I bet all those railway workers will just love having to deal with these when fixing the track.

[@samuell.foxton4177]

Do you know how much pressure a train puts on the tracks? The contact area of a railway carriage on the track is about half the size of the palm of your hand, and there’s 30-120 tonnes on that area (+ dynamic forces). It’s enough to crush leaves into lubricating graphite, and the track bends under that weight.

[@StubbyPhillips]

Rail also involves lots of grease and oil that finds its way to everything in the vicinity. BTW, are ALL marketing people sleazebags? There seems to be a trend...

[@rtdlaboratories]

Another thing: the rails are used for signalling. Essentially a current is sent out through one rail and then returns through the other, and the wheels of the train are used to short across the two rails and the change in current flow lets the system know that a train is present in that section. So I wonder how the fasteners for the panels would interfere with that? Because if they made it all metal that might pose an issue

[@seth7745]

ME guy here. The vibration through the tracks could be dampened through the coupling mechanisms but it would make the system cost prohibitive from the life cycle perspective. Solar barely pays for itself as it is if at all. But then you are still dealing with wake turbulence from the air flow under the train. Particles caught in the turbulence would sand blast the panels.

[@bertblankenstein3738]

I'm glad I live in Canuckistan where most of the rail traffic is freight and this story of thing is unlikely (but don't tell our leaders). As usual, laying the panels flat reduces the efficiency to 30%. Snow would cover the panels for months at a time. Vibration and dust. I look forward to a followup report on the success or lack thereof.

[@rberkar6669]

With the proper amount of lying these people could write a report to convince those spending your money to invest in this boondoggle.

[@JeffreyMichaud]

As soon as I saw this, I was excited but just to watch you rip it to shreds

[@AnIdiotwithaSubaru]

Id love to see them try this on an American coal railway. It would last a week at best not to mention the panels would get stolen lol

[@rickscheck5330]

In Wisconsin there’s marble-sized taconite all over the tracks that “leaks” from hopper cars.

[@ct92404]

Lol in the US you could set a stopwatch for how long the panels would last. 😂 Put fragile glass panels on tracks where thousand ton trains are running??

[@MB-tt5ms]

Haha, in south africa it would probably get stolen within the hour.

[@ghostofdre]

We have the largest coal port in the world in Newcastle, Australia, houses near the lines are covered in coal dust, these panels would be covered in no time. The massive trains shake the ground too, this is a crazy idea.

[@felixmoore6781]

That's the first thing that came to my mind. I'd just wait for nightfall and then steal as many as possible before they got destroyed by normal railway use. I'd treat them much, much better.

[@thatredkite8310]

Fun fact: in some countries the train toilets work by just dumping the waste water onto the tracks. Let's not forget that the solar panels will likely interfere with train protection equipment (Eurobalise, LZB Wires, etc) and all the other stuff that you can find in the tracks (axle counters, defect detecors, track circuits used to detect the presence of a train, etc). Also this stuff would turn the lives of track maintenance crews into absolute hell for multiple reasons. Want to wash the bed? sorry, we first need to wait for the company to send one of their super fancy solar panel remover trains, wash the bed, put the solar stuff back on. I am also not quire sure how compatible it is with existing track inspection trains ("rail lab"). Also, there might be some issues when trains use their eddy current brakes or use their sand dispensers (they spray sand on the tracks to create more friction)

[@simonspacek3670]

There is definitely a good place for solar panels at railroad. It is the roof over train station. Easily accessible, can store power for night lamps,... But between rails? That sounds like super stupid idea. And I don't know much about rail, but I traveled by train a lot. Once there was some maintenance and they put there new rocks. Nice, white/black rock (I guess it was granite, but I don't know for sure). In a month or so, none of those rocks were shiny. In two or three months they had this classic look of "railroad rocks", that dark-brown, kinda like brown coal or iron ore. Like unpolished hematit. Or like everything was covered in fine iron dust... I also do not know much about solar panels, but don't you want them as clean as possible? Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that you need light to get in the panel to make electricity and if the front part is covered in dust, rust, oil and whatnot, it will not work, right?

[@Elnufo]

Great idea. Now we wait for Solar Panels on top of Submarines.

[@lucaslac124]

You know, I always thought that solar panels would be suited for bring put beside the rails, not in between them, especially because of all of the land that has to be cleared around them anyway.

[@hhKJgf1M8a0rzt8hP]

20 years ago when I have first saw the movie Idiocracy I considered it Sci-Fi. When I watch it today I view it as a documentary.

[@SJ-co6nk]

Growing up there was a train track next to my house. We'd go out and pick up big ingots of iron that fell out of the train as it drove along. I'm imagining that reality going up against the fantasy of these panels. Maybe they can melt the iron with the same thing they use for snow?

[@Knight8365]

Yes I just saw this and thought to myself "Dave's going to go nuts over this"

[@Marci124]

The idea of using the fixturing system of my doorframe pull-up bar to mount solar panels is inventive, I grant them that. But it also relies exactly on the deflection mode of the rails that is most intensive during traffic.

[@monad_tcp]

That was the first thing I pictured, the first time a train passes and put pressure on the tracks, they will try to spread and the "things" will all fall down. There's a reason tracks have sleepers between them.

[@dragancrnogorac3851]

Every so often you have to do railway inspection. Like driving really slow and look for defects. Like broken concrete, lose bolts and stuff... Clean signalisation and things... If you cover thing with solar panels.... Accident will happen at some point

[@TilmanBaumann]

Railways are actually fantastic pieces of infrastructure. They go everywhere and are paid for and mostly in public hand. And the railways usually own a good chunks left and right of the track. So by all means, while you put in electrification install a solar power shade structure over the electrical lines. It would also help to keep the snow and leaves off the tracks. It's no surprise railways tend to be the biggest operator of glasfibres. Because they own those neat infrastructure corridors..

[@larseriksvendsen7412]

Just thinking of 15kV and grounding issues should make one run away from this.

[@RichardDzien]

Don't we still have trains that dump their toilets directly onto the railway?

[@peterward2875]

And the Korean solution over the allows the flat panels to be aimed in the right direction and tilted a bit for better angle of incidence to the sun... It's not tracking, but it beats flat on the ground. As the path meandered around, the panels appeared to have the same orientation the whole way through.

[@galen__]

Just when I thought it couldn’t get dumber 😂

[@jasonpatterson8091]

I don't understand why these companies haven't targeted highway median strips. It's a large area where solar panels could be installed sensibly (i.e. elevated and tilted toward the sun) , but barely used. (I think there's a good system in South Korea, but could be mistaken.)

[@otherssingpuree1779]

I have stayed in a hotel in a train station and each time a train passed at speed, I could feel the rumble.

[@Razor2048]

What happens if they use the railway plows on a track with solar panels? During snow storms, tracks need to be regularly plowed to prevent derailment.

[@technoman9000]

Wow if only there were some way to make electricity available to a train, like through an overhead wire of some kind... I should patent that!

[@j.f.christ8421]

Maybe we can hang the panels off that. Wait wait wait, I've just had an idea! Y'know all those big transmission lines around the country...

[@jonka1]

Bad luck, it's been done!

[@rw-xf4cb]

There was an orange thing under the panels in one shot - so cabling perhaps a enphase-esk micro inverter and then an AC line under the panels to a junction point (10a plug somewhere lol).

[@joseluisvaiksnoras7857]

In a railroad we have vibration, impacts, dust, metallic fragments, oil, grease, and a sample of each and every product transported. This is when the composition is not stopped on the rails. It will certainly work! LOL

[@eslofftschubar206]

I don't know in what country you live, but that is not the case for the tracks in Switzerland. The Infrastructure is first class.

[@senilyDeluxe]

Solar panels on the inside of your fridge! Finally you can put the light inside the fridge to good use, it's burning all the time anyways! 😀

[@listerdave1240]

That is merely a hypothesis that hasn't been proven yet. I have taken that up though and should have the evidence either way in a few weeks time when the new fridge is delivered. I ordered one large enough that I can get inside it and close the door.

[@MouldySoul]

@@listerdave1240 did you get a Smeg fridge? That would seem appropriate

[@SystemX1983]

@@listerdave1240 a GoPro or similar wasn't an option? 😉

[@listerdave1240]

@@SystemX1983 Yes I plan to take one of those in with me to document and record what I see along with one of the Chinese ones, DJI I think it's called, to make sure the record is not biased.

[@userPrehistoricman]

@@SystemX1983 Cameras can't be trusted for reasons such as Round Earth

[@Holycurative9610]

Some of the housing association houses by me have solar panels on the roof and we found out last year that NONE of the energy they generate goes to the homeowner. The feed in tariff is also 3p/kWh which is paid to the HA (by the energy companies) but the energy companies are now charging over 50p/kWh so that's a good mark up, buy it at 3 and sell it at 50 whilst letting someone else maintain and service the panels and wiring. Smart move by the housing association eh!!

[@whirled_peas]

Feed in tariffs are fucking criminal. They buy that unit at 3p and send it directly to their neighbour and charge 50p. I don’t like resorting to the state to solve problems but I don’t see how we fix that. There’s no way the power companies can justify that.

[@deanfielding4411]

I’ve heard this rumour and would like to know more. I always thought this can’t be the case, as surely the panels must be wired into the fuse board, so that like normal solar panels (like the ones on my roof) simply work by generating power before my meter, so anything I use from the panels saves me power from the grid so everything I use while less than what is being generated is free for me. The must have somehow wired yours after the meter and on a separate meter. Which I thought would be illegal? Would love to see it.

[@tw11tube]

@@deanfielding4411 In Germany, a country that claims to have invented subsidizing renewable energy sources, initially they paid way higher for generated solar power (around 50ct/kWh in 2006, fixed for 20 years) than you had to pay for grid energy (around 22ct/kWh in 2006). *Of course* solar installation were installed on a separate meter, which is perfectly legal.

[@liucyrus22]

Ridiculous, they pay less than meter rate for small scale solar generation? How are those panels financially viable then. They have to be heavily subsidised to be viable.

[@tw11tube]

​@@liucyrus22 Even if you don't get paid for feeding current into the grid, small scale solar systems may be financially viable because you can use the generated electricity yourself, and thus cut down the amount of energy drawn from the grid.

[@JLTSoft]

Here in the states (and I am writing this while riding on Chicago Metra double decker train cars) the steel rails for the tracks actually flex as the wheels go over them. The tracks can actually sink a few inches while the cars roll over them. Forget about vibration... That flexing will rip these things to shreds!

[@corktail7900]

i like how someone points out a genuine critique and they respond with a "we have a thingamabob that would prevent that from happening". no addressing the fundamental design flaw, just a technology bandaid

[@Holycurative9610]

I wonder how the panels will cope in the Autumn with wet leaves blowing everywhere. Several years ago trains in the UK were actually prevented from running because of wet leaves on the line!!

[@DaveF.]

Several years ago? It's one of the standard reasons why trains are delayed, along with points failures, etc. It causes wheel slip. The best excuse railtrack/British Rail ever gave for seasonal delays was, I kid ye not, "The wrong type of snow."

[@DaveF.]

Several years ago? It's one of the standard reasons why trains are delayed, along with points failures, etc. It causes wheel slip. The best excuse railtrack/British Rail ever gave for seasonal delays was, I kid ye not, "The wrong type of snow."

[@CountScarlioni]

It's not just several years ago. They're frequently prevented from doing so due to the effect on signalling. Wet leaves on the line create an oily insulating layer between rail and wheel that causes trains to "cease to exist" on signalling display boards. For what should be obvious reasons this is extremely dangerous. Until the rail has been cleaned off, they'll either not run on the line or implement heavy speed restrictions. Even in ideal conditions cleaning muck off and servicing panel arrays is a full time job. Combining the job of maintaining panels _and_ maintaining the permanent way is just asking to massively increase the amount of delays to rail services. The idea is a daft on that point alone.

[@namibjDerEchte]

@@CountScarlioni SUch and also just staying on sand/grit that was deployed to counter the lubrication of e.g. leaves is why German has gone away from track circuits and went to axle counting instead.

[@dylantowers9367]

@@CountScarlioni Either insulates the track circuit so the train "vanishes", OR shorts the track circuit so there's a "phantom" train just sitting there.

[@dwavenminer]

I'm still waiting for them to have solar freakin' cannals where they put the solar panels under water...followed by solar freakin' road/rail/whatever else tunnels, after all, why not put the solar pannels underground.

[@ccoder4953]

There are some proposals for floating solar panels on irrigation canals and reservoirs. The idea has alot of challenges, but isn't without some merit. Here in the American southwest, water is a big deal. Preventing water waste by evaporation could be pretty big. So, panels that help with that and get some energy at the same time aren't the worst idea I've ever heard. Of course irrigation canals aren't generally used for boat traffic, so it's sort of different from what I think you're thinking of.

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

There are solar panels on irrigation canals in India

[@rw-xf4cb]

Solar panels on the tracks, wind turbines on the roof of the trains......perfect...

[@brianhilligoss]

Also imagine the damage a derailment can cause. 99% of derailments are just a single axle that comes off and gets dragged for many km. That would destroy millions of dollars of panels.

[@kensmith5694]

A more practical idea is to just make the tracks run down hill in both directions. An alternative is to put bigger wheels on the back of the train so it is always running down hill.

[@Fragmentofbone]

Solar panels on Submarines will be next!

[@filipstamate1564]

"To prevent reflections from glaring into train drivers' eyes, Sun-Ways claims that their panels are more durable than conventional ones". Huh?

[@SteveSkidmore]

With the railroad derailment we have been having in the U.S. lately, it would be continuously having to be replaced.

[@atkelar]

I think it's sliiiightly more realistic than the roadway idea: 1.: the train isn't running on the panels and 2.: one can relatively easily fit a train with a brush and clean the panels every other day or so... That being said, I'm getting out the popcorn and wait for the numbers. What I see as the main issue here is also not the vibration but rather the suction of a train going over the track with 100+ kph - that is going to pull up these panels quicker than you can say "oopsie". I was working at a company that did some RF amlifiers for train radios in the early 1990s and we had to recall the amplifier rack from tunnels because they would be... well... sucked off the mounting frame by passing trains and I expect these to go flying very quickly. And yes, sticking the panels on the roof is more effective, but it's also a question of who's roof is it anyways? So... stupid idea: yes. But more stupid than the roads? I dare say that roads is still taking the cake here.

[@MattyEngland]

Grift sums it up perfectly. 👍 Undoubtedly a kickback to government officials too.

[@mururoa7024]

Passenger trains have toilets, and they don't store the waste on board, if you follow my drift. 😉 Some trains even spray sand on the tracks to get more grip during the winter.

[@chrisblake4198]

Panels flat on the ground between rails and pointing straight up into the sky. Great job breaking every rule or maximizing sun exposure.

[@mikefochtman7164]

You're absolutely right about the MOW (maintenance-of-way) of railroads. Another youtuber (ccrx6700) is a real-world railroad worker here in the states on short-line railroad that hauls coal. His work shows the constant work needed, 'cribbing ballast' and lifting/ aligning track. These solar panels would require removal / reinsertion almost all the time, and easily would double the time (which equals money) that it takes to maintain a track. And anytime a train can't run because the track is unavailable costs a lot of money. This is a non-starter.

[@mikefochtman7164]

Oh and 'coal dust'?? Well for ccrx 6700, that's a BIG reason why they have to clean/ replace the ballast. Hopper car doors on the bottom 'leak' coal fines out all the time and it settles into the ballast where it eventually builds up and ruins the drainage. Bad drainage ruins everything.

[@mr_sheen_asg]

The vertical movement of rails when a train passes will destroy all connectors, if anyone has a chance just have a look at a train going pass from a side you can actually see the movement with your own eyes😂

[@seanb3516]

The Initial problem is what happens if a Train is approaching a long row of panels at 80 KPH and the first psnel for some reason flips up and catches on the Train? That would be interesting!

[@dylantowers9367]

I work on a rail depot. I don't need to imagine what would happen to the train's underframe. It's not pretty.

[@michelroovers4039]

Not to mention the litteral crap falling from trains when flushing the toilet😂

[@JeffBourke]

Yes!!!! We need these urgently.

[@WizardTim]

I wonder what would be a better return on investment and generate more power, a solar panel on a roadway, a solar panel on train tracks or a solar panel on Uranus. But to be fair I actually think this is a less stupid idea than solar roadways, mainly because railways and their gauge are highly standardized and there's a very well define dedicated friction surface, roadways however vary wildly in so many ways with the friction surface being the entire surface, a hexagonal tile will never work in so many applications and the panels being the actual friction surface is just giga-stupid. This idea is at least a retrofit and leaves the friction surface untouched. I also don't think dust is a catastrophic issue, any train traveling at decent speed will blow much of the dust off but will still need cleaning in which case it's on a linear railway, some sort of automated cleaning system could be implemented if it was an issue. I think the people behind this have at least put in a decent amount of time, effort and thought to come this fair, however I don't know if it's because they actually believe it will work or because they're good at the magical tech grift. However it's still a terrible idea and a waste of silicon, vibration would be a massive issue but I think more so flexing would kill them almost instantly, if you watch railway tracks as a train passes, even an empty one you will see the rails bend and sink into the ballast, those rigid panels would just crack or require a very expensive mechanical design to survive that flexing, which would likely make it more sensitive to vibrational harmonics and damage that way, there's also a lot of things that hang off the bottom of trains, intentional and unintentional, putting all those panels in a nice neat line under trains is just going to end in them being ruined all at once.

[@SeanBZA]

Solar on Uranus would be better, at least there you do not have to support the panel much, so it can be made truly massive, but low mass.

[@gorak9000]

How is it less stupid? Trains still leave a bunch of crap behind that will obscure the panels just like dirt on the roads to. And to top it off, trains regularly drop pieces, or drag pieces hanging off the train for miles. They specifically have "defect detectors" along the tracks to detect dragging stuff or hot axles and whatnot. Why do panels need to go UNDER things when there's TONS of unused empty space they could go on that aren't interfered with with f'ing trains or cars or trucks (or pedestrians or bicycles) going over them

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

It depends. Does the sun shine out of Uranus?

[@EEVblog]

Can someone in switzerland please go and film the first trial!

[@j.f.christ8421]

@@TheKnobCalledTone. It does out of mine!

[@SilverTwinkle]

Germany is the best example on how not to do any of that: Too much paperwork (tough they ARE trying to reduce that drasticly) Not enough workers to keep the railroad intact (many long time closures for maintenance, regularily breaking electronics ect.) Not enough workers for our current electric systems (only 65% of our windpower can actually produce anything at all, at very low output rates and the rest is often out of commission due to lacking workers, not to mention the deforestation we did for it.) Pad payment, despite beeing VERY dangerous jobs at times. It is just not worth doing. Investment into more renewable powers we cannot maintain

[@MickeyMishra]

Sweden says, Håll min öl! 🤣