Sonnen Battery storage installation for solar panels - uk electrical installation. Smart energy pt2

We take look at the electrical installation for a Sonnen Battery storage system linked to solar panels.
Electrician Sam Featherstone has added this battery storage system to an existing solar installation, which we looked at in a previous video. We start with the Lewden consumer unit and how this is connected and then open up the Sonnen Battery to see what's inside. We also discuss how the battery system can manage the energy storage for the house using solar energy, feed in tariff and off-peak electricity.
The combination of solar energy, battery storage and electric vehicles is one of the most exciting markets for electricians in the UK.
See the previous video discussing a solar panel installation upgrade using Solaredge technology
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Features:
KZbinr Gary Hayers of GSH electrical and electrician Sam Featherstone - Oval Electrical.
#efixx #batterystorage #electricalinstallation

[@simonschertler3034]

I have been to the production plant at sonnen many years ago. It was really exciting. We also installed several of this systems in Austria and Germany 👍

[@danielvelinski9522]

Very interesting project a great area for electricians to explore - thanks for sharing both videos.

[@mandofan2616]

fair plan to that guy, he really knows his stuff.

[@constructioneerful]

Great series! Love to see some of the bills and savings especially given the excellent tariff. Maybe a payback calculation would be interesting.

[@Anazet-Energy]

Thanks for sharing these videos, Hopefully soon the people will learn the great advantages of PV Systems, as well as Solar Storage

[@chrisjinks5197]

Really great video series guy, appreciate you posting this, I learnt some good things. Thanks

[@efixx]

Thanks for the support Chris... more great content to follow

[@SuperSweetGamers]

The days of 15p electricity! Old memories

[@michaelcostello6991]

Great explanation as always. Thank you

[@efixx]

👍🏻

[@johndoyle4723]

Thanks, great video, much more relevant now with unit costs of 30p/Kwh, and possibly 40-50p in the near future. Oh just remembered the early days of nuclear power with promise of energy too cheap to even bothering to meter, that worked out well.

[@agroves90]

Great video guys, thanks for sharing as always and making people more aware that renewable power generation is the only way forward. I wondered what safety mechanism is in place, to stop either the PV or battery pack back feeding into the grid when a, the local grid supply is off due to fault and b, the dno is working on presumed dead equipment while fault finding. Cheers

[@nathan-ck6xh]

Really great video, have learnt a lot from it

[@craigdunsmuir6697]

Great video really interesting.however I am unable to work out how exactly the AC that's comming down the 2.5 through to the 16amp rcbo distribute it's load..the other rcbos aswell as this one are getting fed from the busbar via the 100amp mainswitch then to domestic meter.im really struggling to work this out.thanks

[@mrtechie6810]

Could you explain how to choose between the Class T fuse and the HRC fuse like NT00? For the main fuse of a lithium battery, feeding an inverter.

[@Theo-de-Koning]

From panels AC → DC → AC → battery? There are now converters that do this in one go? Less energy waist to extra cables.

[@TimmyBoja]

Surely there's a way to keep it DC right to the battery. You'll loose most of the energy otherwise

[@danielebrahim6535]

So in order to add solar, you need a free circuit breaker, and wire it in. Despite circuit breakers usually taking energy out? Have I misunderstood ? The main tails from the street stays as is. You need a free breaker, which presumably you install at the beginning? Or how does this work,

[@paulegan1476]

Just a few questions please. Is there a reason why you did not put the batt storage in the attic hidden? What is the depth of the sonnen cab please? Also, if the battery is charging up off peak during the night and the next day is ☀️ ☀️ … then the battery maybe full and if no power consumed in the house, won’t this then go back to the grid, which we wanted to avoid ? Thanks 😊 awesome video

[@offgridsolaruk843]

Nice, bit more technical than my maverick system, how do the I assume High frequency inverters deal with high start up loads? Does it just rely on the grid to provide the surge power? Looks like a great system through, is it Lifepo4 or Lithium Ion?

[@OvalRenewables]

Yes it will rely on the grid to help during this scenario.

[@martynholder1971]

great video, my system has batteries, but while away abroad last year my inverter cut out, when I got home it was showing a fault light. when I turned it back on the batteries were not charging, my installer ceased trading soon after instal 4 years ago, now I cannot find any Company to reset my inverter and I might have to have a new inverter

[@marcusjenkins]

What about if you have multiple loads that you want to connect only when there's excess from solar? How do you arbitrate between, say, water heater, EV charger and battery charger - all of which would all work well as "excess only" loads?

[@seanbranagh]

I found this video interesting and there is a lot of useful information. I have to say though that come credibility was lost when he repeatedly used the term Kw instead of KwH when talking about the battery storage capacity..

[@thenewinnthornton8755]

Hi guys, great video. I'm looking to put PV on my roof. I have 3ph and demand alternates from ph to ph. If I had a 3ph inverter and a solar edge storage inverter coupled to a bank of batteries, will the storage Inverter be able to tell which ph is low in demand and charge the batteries? Also will the storage inverter be able to discharge the batteries to any of the 3 phases depending which has demand? I'd like to be able to programme the inverter to charge off the grid at set times during the night, can the solar storage inverter do this? Thank you in advance. John

[@efixx]

We’ll ask our tame PV installer to answer this one!

[@OvalRenewables]

Hello John, thanks for the question. In short yes, a battery system can use net metering to try to balance the demand on each phase. It can also be programmed to charge up from the grid during off peak tariff periods. If you would like to discuss this further I would be happy to have a conversation over the phone. Please feel free to send an email with your number on to [e-mail] and I will call you back.

[@m101ist]

Storage heaters, now storage batteries. 😳 For off peak electricity.

[@efixx]

YEP

[@markroyle58]

I use a small solar system more as a UPS via a hybrid inverter, could these larger system provide safe power during a power cut i.e anti-islanding protection, would this need separate isolation such as a relay (contacter)

[@dalroth10]

A very interesting video. I had solar panels installed just over a year ago and got my first EV about 4 months ago. At the moment I'm sending any excess solar back to the grid so a home battery is of interest. I have the benefit of an Economy 7 tariff so like the idea of being able to charge the home battery at night and then use the stored energy during the following day as a way to reduce my overall electrical energy cost. One big question I have though is just how long a home battery will last. I'm no expert in battery technology but realise there are only so many charge/discharge cycles that you're going to get out of a battery. At some point it's going to have to be replaced, so I want to establish this so I can consider the whole-life cost of a home battery solution. Is this something you can provide information on please?

[@efixx]

It’s the same battery technology as EV’s - so you can easily expect a 10 year life cycle.

[@dalroth10]

@@efixx Thank you for your prompt reply and good to hear the anticipated life cycle. Out of interest, are the batteries used what you might refer to as "second use" batteries, i.e. may actually have come from a used EV?

[@efixx]

@@dalroth10 Yes there was a trial with Eaton using 2nd life batteries from Nissan Leafs. www.eaton.com/nl/en-gb/products/energy-storage/xstorage-home-supports-the-energy-transition.html

[@efixx]

This is expected to be a trend moving forward. Will be interesting so see how they rate the batteries - does a 100kW become a 90kw and the 10 year cycle starts again?

[@martdaymo]

If you if you have such a good understanding of it then you should understand that it's not worth it lol

[@richardhall6509]

Did I miss it, or did you forget to mention the cost of this puny battery (which is 5 Kwh, not 5Kw)? Does this kit include the power cut continuity of the Tesla Powerwall?

[@myopenmind527]

What is the largest array that you can connect to this Sonnen battery? Is this a Sonnen hybrid?

[@michaelcostello6991]

Please provide links if there is any worthwhile solar training online

[@jayoddie5846]

👏

[@peterwhitehead8376]

How does it work in a power cut?

[@lucaswerner2623]

Does that specific ModBus have 3 CT clamps for 3 phase or is it connected to Single Phase but with two CT Clamps and the Third CT clamp was left off?

[@Candisa]

Since nobody answered, I'll tell you what I got from the video: Single phase system 1 CT clamp monitoring the solar production 1 CT clamp monitoring the draw from the grid The software inside the battery charger/inverter uses these two measurements to determine if and how much it needs to charge or discharge to reduce the draw from or injection to the grid as much as possible (combined with some intelligent off-peak nighttime charging in the winter to reduce draw from the grid during the daytime when the solar system can't keep up).

[@Chris-hy6jy]

So how much does a Sonnen 15kWh battery cost? I'm guessing a lot!

[@efixx]

Your in the ball park - budget £1000 per kWh

[@Chris-hy6jy]

@@efixx so a 15kWh unit will cost me approx £15k. My monthly electric bill is £80... So 15,000/80 = 187.5 months payback and that assumes that this system saves me 100% of my electric bill. Yeah think I'll pass on that 🤦‍♂️

[@efixx]

Fair point

[@Andrew-ws4qf]

@@efixx my monthly bill is £410. So for me it would only take just over 3 years to payback - when can you start installing

[@Phil_AKA_ThundyUK]

AC to DC is a rectifier not an inverter :)

[@andyrantshumanphilosopher7571]

Oh, the days of economy 7....

[@efixx]

😃

[@andyrantshumanphilosopher7571]

@@efixx I'm guessing this set up being displayed would work for wind?

[@alanallington1001]

Will the battery system pay for itself?

[@Candisa]

That depends from situation to situation. If you have little consumption during the day while the panels are charging (because nobody's home) and you can use that energy at night (f.e. to charge an electric car overnight, run the oven/hob/dishwasher/washing machine/dryer... or some extra heating in the evening), and/or if you have a really low off-peak rate you want to benefit from by storing a lot of cheap energy and using it when the rate is a lot more expensive, you'll earn the cost of the battery system back overtime. If you can and are willing to somehow arrange your routines and work so that you use most of your electricity consumption while the solar system is producing during the daytime in the summer, and also spread part of your consumption needs to the off-peak rate time window during the winter when the solar system doesn't produce enough during the day, you won't benefit from a battery system as you already consume most of your electricity when it's free/cheap.

[@davis8410]

@ an average of £1000 per kWh of storage and saving 10p per cycle the battery warranty of 70% at 10,000 cycles doesn’t even cover the outlay. Max output 3.3kw is pretty feeble compared with over 20kw that comes down a 100A standard domestic supply.

[@ovalelectricalservices7790]

Davi s thanks for your opinion and for watching the video. I feel differently however hopefully as the technology develops and the price reduces we can win you over!

[@acelectricalsecurity]

thats what i thought, a long time to get your money back if ever. Also with more electric cars on the road any off peak tariffs will start to disappear, because everyone will come home from work and whack the car on to charge whether it needs it or not.

[@shentsov84]

Small is not measurable quality especially if you speak about energy. Small could be you know what 😉

[@mark6098]

Great other than the silly horror background music🙈