Eight Functions, Seven Dichotomies

Interviews with Ghost of Jung:
Monarchic Types: • The Monarch Types: INT...
Democratic Types: • The Democratic Types: ...
Theocratic Types: • The Theocratic Types: ...
Interview with Jack Aaron, vol. 3: • Michael Pierce (IEI) V...
Skip to 1:02:24 in that interview to see Aaron's tentative words for the dichotomies.
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[@guernica5413]

This will be a good one.

[@samuelunias673]

I was thinking about the names for the SF and NT commonalities and I realised how involved, detached and reactive refer to human behavior. Then I tried to think of "less human" terms, like conotation and denotation are. The ones I came up with refer to physical phenomena: distillation (NT) and permeation (SF). Although permeation may not seem to align with "yang", I would argue that you can see a function both as permeating something, or as being permeated by something. I don't believe they are refined as contation or denotation, but I still believe they fit.

[@guernica5413]

I really enjoyed your terms! Especially because it makes sense when we paired the respective functions with their Empirical and Interpretative categories. Sensation = Empirical Permeation Thinking = Empirical Distillation Intuition = Interpretative Distillation Feeling = Interpretative Permeation I always wanted the symmetry for it.

[@rvnsglcr7861]

I liked your take on Se-Fe. It's long been my position that Se's "intuition" is sourced in the performance because provocations increase the amount of available data regarding others. A form of echolocation and solving Fe or Fe-natured concerns would then be more probable. In many ways, all babies do this during the start of the identity formation years. The provocations launched by those with say, Cluster B personality disorders seem to be evidence that a person can be stuck within this stage of requiring visceral cause/effect information from those close to them because they lack the object permanence required for continuity. Basically, they would be trying to solve a permanent "blue brain" issue where identity is concerned.

[@GlorryGaming]

I don't have anything stimulating on the topic at hand but I just wanted to say thank you so much for all your work and continuing to put your passion in thought. Have a good one Michael!

[@itisfinishednowtimetoclean2723]

Love Jung! Love His theories, typology, symbology…. I live with a Ti, and I am an Ni, and we truly disconnect on this level. Linear makes a great example. Sensing is a Great place to begin as we all begin there! Will get your book.

[@MicrowavedBread]

The dichotomy you lay out for the xxxP and xxxJ types is really helpful, and I like the imagery. It's always tough when explaining the theory and functions to a friend, where they might ask, 'Well why does an INFJ (a Perception dominant) have a J for Judging?' I guess the four letter model is more behaviorist, and compared to the 'Surveying' types, the 'Leading' types' judgement and organization is more externally apparent, thus the classification. Also, I think Persona and Integrity, both work well for the 'Involved' aspect of the respective quadras. And I actually think Jack's 'conclusive' and 'questioning' are definitely onto something, but actually might be better suited to the Detached aspects of those quadras. Someone in the comments proposed 'Divergent' for Delta and 'Convergent' for Beta, which I think actually work really well.

[@misanek007]

Michael, I managed to find out that the four quadras, which you equate with the monarchic, democratic, theocratic etc. fits very well with the Varna concept in the Laws of Manu (Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishna, Shudra).

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

That is very interesting! I know very little in detail about the law of manu -- care to elaborate?

[@MicrowavedBread]

Were you thinking Brahmins as NFJ/STP, Kshatriyas as NTJ/SFP, Vaishyas as STJ/NFP, and Shudras as SFJ/NTP?

[@Anonthon]

@@MicrowavedBread I would be so so down to see a video on this topic

[@itisfinishednowtimetoclean2723]

Ji vs. Np, tether ball is a Great example.

[@keropphia]

the se-fe relationship is spot on!

[@guernica5413]

Hello, Michael, I would like to present my own ideas regarding the Ne/Si Te/Fi and Se/Ni Fe/Ti. For me, the anarchic types are "divergent", since their attachment is introverted (Si and Fi), and they consider the world as different ideas to be perceived and to be used (Ne and Te). Meanwhile, the theocratic types are "convergent", since they are aware of the usual attachment that people have (Se and Fe) and use this awareness to present there own ideas (Ni and Ti) This dichotomies also explain the democratic and monarchist types. The democratic types would have an Divergent perception axes and a Convergent judgement axes. So, by considering multiple points of view via Ne-Si, they seek to create a pleasant sentimental environment for people to share there ideas Fe-Ti. Meanwhile, the Monarchic types have a Convergent perception axes with a Divergent judgement axes. They have there own "inconsiderate" way of making decisions through Te-Fi, but they are still "magnetic" in there presentation via there Se-Ni axes.

[@MicrowavedBread]

Have you ever read IDRLabs' 'Function Axes in Typology' ? I was just re-reading some of it and in chapter 5 they actually call the Anarchic types 'Diveegent' and the Theocratic types 'Convergent.' Interesting stuff indeed

[@guernica5413]

@@MicrowavedBread I believe this chapter is acquired by payment right? Lol, how cool it is that I also figured out this.

[@guernica5413]

@@MicrowavedBread oooh now that I saw, it's a book, not an article in their web site. No, I haven't read it.

[@storieswithinstories9442]

Articulating the distinction between alphas and gammas preferred functions is kind of difficult. Are the decisive and serious axes really 'springy' and the judicious and merry axes 'spongey'? It's hard to say. I think the universal-contextual distinction holds up pretty well. Alphas have preferences for public forms of information, which can give them a straight-forward, democratic or space-cadetish air. Gammas have preferences for private-seeming information, which can make their expression seem self-caused, magnanimous or solipsistic. If this is part of an elaborate attempt to get the betas and deltas to no longer be considered "aristocratic" as they are in socionics and to make the spongey, receptive alphas out to be somehow yang instead of yin... I respect the audacity.

[@joshuaseawright221]

Hello, a 3 dimensional equilateral triangle, the model you showed with S at the center being surrounded by the other 3 operations, is called a Tetrahedron.

[@TheGerogero]

One of the five platonic solids-just adding to the thread...

[@kinglewisjtl24]

I believe if you work with an infj you will find better, more precise jargon to describe your ideas. I don’t know if everyone can grasp your theoretical juxtapositions and the dichotomies therein without using introverted intuition.

[@realitiesoftypology7502]

Hello Mr. Pierce! I have done a video of my thoughts between Sensing and Feeling, and maybe I'm a bit morose in the video but it really touches on what I think you're going around here. I've also solved in my own way your opposing dichotomy that aligns the ST's an the NF's in a way that meets a different alignment in the SF's and NT's, but I haven't released that because in the end, while it has massive beneficial possibilities, the downside to it is too strong for people that can't even really handle simple things in a social context like the difference between sensing and intuition.

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

I'll need to check out your videos!

[@realitiesoftypology7502]

@@MichaelPiercePhilosophy The latest video about Feeling, Sensing, and Individuation shows a lot of what most people either are missing, or know but don't care to describe things as. I would suspect though from the complete omission of it from all that I have seen of typological theory that they are missing it.

[@dekalogue]

Hello there. I've been wondering what the Jungian shadow and anima refers to in terms of functions. Does the shadow refer to inferior functions in one's own personality? Does the anima refer to opposite functions be they masculine or feminine?

[@Raphael0654]

35:40 What if you, in true Yin/Yang fashion, you conceptualized the universal axis as being primarily Yin, but with a little bit of Yang at its core, as a secondary algorithm/mode it could lean into?

[@rianczer]

just started watching this video and you're trying to remember the name of the tetrahedron… I asked for your email a while ago, and I have been waiting to email you cuz I'm an ENTP procrastinator and I'm very hopeful for a conversation with you, but I think it's time to stop procrastinating… there's so much we could talk about 😈

[@greenlimabean]

Video starts at 4 min. Would love time stamps.

[@pablo_astorga]

Congrats. This is interesting AF.

[@mehrnoushlotfi3277]

I think reactivity should go for intuition and feeling based on the interpretation process...

[@deedoc6241]

7:17 oh wow that looks like the Trinity in Christianity.

[@yecksd]

HERE EARLY

[@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes]

Same I am better and more concise by writing than by speaking. All of theses dichotomies make sense to me and are coherent, I easily understand them. I like the simple way of how they are connected. I like the the idea of the pyramid (The regular tetrahedron, one of the Platonic solids) Yesterday, by searching the meaning of the number 27, from an idea to another, because 27 is a perfect cube (3³) I found this : fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_cubique (on my language) And I was a interested by this triangular base pyramid (I was attracted by the images, I didn't read the mathematical stuff and text) _ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayley%27s_nodal_cubic_surface _ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clebsch_surface _ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_surface I was thinking theses last days to the dichotomy N-T and S-F. Because of the confusion when we speak : we use the verb "think' both when we use thinking or intuition, and we use the verb "feel" both when we use feeling or sensation. I understand well the relation/confusion between Se and Fe. Se : real world, the objets, surfaces as they are presented. Fe : the feelings of others people. People are also objects/surfaces : little relation, confusion between Fe and Se.