Marika Seduced the Crucible | Elden Ring DLC Story Trailer Breakdown and Speculation

crucible seduction alert
00:00 Intro
00:37 Marika and the Crucible
01:32 Life from Shadow
02:40 Messmer's War
03:40 Unknown Character
04:20 Dragons
05:03 Miquella and St Trina
05:44 Miquella's Followers
06:49 Outro
▶ Sources
Story Trailer -
• ELDEN RING Shadow of t...
Gameplay Trailer -
• ELDEN RING Shadow of t...
Dark Souls 1 Opening -
• DARK SOULS: REMASTERED...
Images and Item Text -
eldenring.fandom.com/wiki/
eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com...
▶ Music
Neon White OST - Glass Ocean
Neon White OST - Hellion

[@timdiggity]

I also just realized the long hair on St. Trina is totally just a veil of some kind. The Melina theory's still alive baby

[@codes2682]

Marika is literally all of her kids! And so is radagon! You impregnate yourself you give birth to yourself basically! They having kids and are at war with each other! Aka themselves!

[@epicleaf]

I think you're spot on with that miquella follower being the narrator lady! Also I like to think that melina inherited the gloam eye, or the power of the "gloam", after GEQ was killed, and then melina gets it back after frenzy ending from the beast eye that gurranq gave us. ALSO the fact it's called the beast eye, it's made of stone and beasts/crucible/dragons are all strongly related to stone, I think that GEQ was a beast of some kind and the beast eye is her actual eye that maliketh ripped out. (Also godskin nobles have crucible trarits and GEQ supposedly creates her followers)

[@BrunoCampos0122]

But didn't Marika fight the Gloam-Eyed Queen well before having Miquella with Radagon?? So how could Miquella be the Gloam-Eyed Queen??? Only if the Gloam-Eyed Queen had been reincarnated into the female version of Miquella, who would be both Milena and St. Trina at the same time.

[@startselectWTFdie]

I was just about to say! Definitely a veil

[@shira_yone]

@@BrunoCampos0122 we don't have confirmation as to when the M starting trio children was born, the assumption has always been that they're the youngest of them all; but Messmer challenge this notion. If he's been around from the beginning (before the Erdtree) then it's possible the other 2 were much older than most thought, there's a lake of rot underground along with the ancient cities implying Malenia's first bloom might've happened a long long time ago. There's a theory video proposing about how the 2 might be the first set of children of Marika, obviously I'm not convinced since Miquella calls Godwyn "older brother" (assuming that's who he's referring to, and not Messmer), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. The game is full of conspiracies and deception after all.

[@AlTariqLuqmanMuhammad]

Crack theory, Marika seduced the Gloam Eyed Queen in her Radagon form and the result was Messmer. The corpse she pulls the gold thing from in the beginning of the trailer is the GEQ after Maliketh defeated her, signifying the betrayal. She then sends Messmer to wage war against the godskins/crucible forces in the Shadow Lands while she establishes the Erdtree in the Lands Between.

[@nakiuzuaya]

That's so interesting, but why does the elden beast soundtrack play during the first scenes. It's gotta be connected, they wouldn't randomly choose that soundtrack for no reason

[@bhirbmother5413]

@@nakiuzuayai believe when she puts the hairs up to the sky and the blast hits plus the music, is when the star containing the elden beast hits the earth and the elden ring and beast come to join marika as she is now a god

[@sebastianestrada3697]

@@bhirbmother5413I believe that the strands she pulls out are what determines the god for the next age; in other words, an empyrean’s essence. Marika taking them from the GEQ is likely what guaranteed her for selection. Of course this is very theoretical lol.

[@nakiuzuaya]

@@bhirbmother5413 but i feel like the golden strands she pulls from the corpse or whatever it is, have got to be related to the elden beast/greater will. So if they are, how come they are already there before the elden beast star arrives to the earth

[@SuperBeerFest]

@@nakiuzuaya yeah, the thing that Marika pulls out may be the foundation of the current form of the Elden Ring. It is a fact that the Elden Ring / Elden Beast / Greater Will was already present in the Lands Between long before Marika became a God. Before the Age of Marika/Erdtree was the Age of the Ancient Dragons with Placidusax as the Elden Lord and consort to an unknown God (possibly connected to the Gloam-Eyed Queen???)

[@PuckDuckDetective]

The dialogue about Miquella abandoning his flesh, strength, and fate reminds me of how Ranni separated herself from the Golden Order with the night of the Black Knives.

[@adamsirin7249]

When Marika holds up that gold thread she's basically making the pose of her rune seen on the scarseal.

[@tropezando]

Seriously, I think Marika has seduced everyone. In canon, she (as Radagon) seduced Rennala to end the stalemate with the Carians. She also used her marriage with Godfrey to make use of his warriors as she wiped out any challenger to her power, and later used the Tarnished as backup Lords. I think Marika is also the god who abandoned Placidusax - her moniker of The Eternal fits with the timeless nature of Faram Azula, and dragon parentage would explain why Messmer has a dragon eye, and why Godwyn had lightning powers along with a friendly rapport with the dragons even after his partial death. It could also explain why Granssax attacked Leyndell - perhaps he learned of Marika's betrayal of his kin and wanted revenge. With the new trailer speaking again of seduction, affairs, and betrayal, I can't help but see Marika up to her old tricks again. It looks as though she is pulling golden strands out of stitched skin, and walking atop a mountain of flayed bodies. To the left, the sky is a rich purple color, and to the right, through the gap of the stacked bodies the sky is gold. To me, this looks as though she is stealing a vital golden force (the Elden Ring?) from its rightful owner/vessel, indicated by the stitched skin to be potentially the Gloam Eyed Queen. I think this is who was seduced and betrayed. This is why the bodies are skinned, and why the purple sky is left behind as Marika ascends toward gold. As others have mentioned, the shape of the bodies is similar to the shape of the opening in the base of the erdtree when we enter at the end of the game. As for the burning hooded figure - I think this is the death of the product of the seduction, born of the Gloam Eyed Queen and Marika. There is a character that has both a golden eye of grace, and a purple eye of gloam. A character that struggles to conceptualize Boc's affection for his mother, because she was born to one who had no trouble thinking of her children as "naught but sacrifices" if they did not fulfill the purpose she gave them. One who makes her way through the Lands Between as a "burnt and bodiless" person, and decides to commit a cardinal sin... Just my theory, though.

[@allthe1]

Am I crazy or does the sack of flesh Marika pulls the golden threads out of looks like a giant dead snake's eye? Could be one of the severed heads of Placidusax, who she seduced and betrayed (fled)? This would all tie up nicely with the theory that Godwyn isn't actually a child of Godfrey but of Placidusax, explaining the lack of crucible traits, the golden hair and the lightning powers.

[@jonathan0225]

@@allthe1 marika is for the streets for sure. could explain why the omen kids does not resemble godwyn the golden...the seed is of a different parent.

[@Ozone946]

@@jonathan0225yeah, Godwyn is the child of dragons and Marika 100%

[@mythzel898bet2]

​​@@jonathan0225thats a bit far,morgott and mohg are omen,seeing how it effects their body, especially mohg with the formless mother,if we dont know mohg is morgott twin brother,we probably think he is someone else and not Godfrey son(that morgott have resemblance from)..its more likely that Godwyn like his brothers and Hoarah loux is related to the crucible just more like his father rather than his brothers.

[@zapper9903]

So Marika is a Bard then?

[@bandiriatraveler8343]

Whatever Marika is grabbing those strands from looks almost godskin-like.

[@DougRobertson]

In that first scene, Marika was stepping into the Erdtree. The opening looks the same. The Erdtree has a lining of gold around it. The Ertree roots always have bodies embedded in them. The Erdtree is made up of bodies, possibly from the war in the land of shadows. The bodies are concealed with Marika's gold.

[@iboofer]

Lines up neatly with the Mimic Veil using gold to conceal things and being referred to as "Marika's Mischief".

[@allthe1]

I think she's stepping out of the Great tree's stump, which is the bark-colored, inner part on which the golden Erdtree was just planted. A lot of people have made the observation that the gate part seems a completely distinct texture and age, and the relief on it represents a different tree. So that would make Marika's godhood begin at the beginning of the age of the Erdtree, after the crucible era, and waaaay after all the first great tree was dead.

[@DougRobertson]

@@allthe1 I think that the seduction and betrayal was Marika convincing Messmer to wage war, piling up corpses, which became the erdtree. Messmer was based on the summerian god Ningishzida, which translates to "lord of the good tree". In essence, Messmer "planted" the Erdtree, by piling up corpses, Markia took control of it, and concealed the horror with gold. That's the shadow of the erdtree

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

The erdtree root connection is great, didn't think of that.

[@radthadd]

​@@DougRobertson Also, Ningishzida's culture associated horns with royalty.

[@ryanleatigaga7596]

The mass of writing red flesh topless Marika is between reminds me of the World Tree from Berserk. Interestingly, the World Tree combines both the physical world and the Astral World together. Knowing Miyazaki loves referencing Berserk in his Souls games, I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

[@RhynaX]

"New waifu perhaps?" timdiggity says calmly

[@ZayftheScholar]

Another great video; I like how you didn't shy away from going for GEQ with the woman in the flames! ...and your voice is so calming man.

[@timdiggity]

Yeah, I’m very curious about that new character. And thanks, haha I was thinking the same thing watching yours!

[@Haden475]

i was struck on my first watch by how much the "crucible" reminded me of mt. gelmir and rykard. it feels like to me rykard is trying to recreate this moment, piling bodies, incorporating them into one being as well as following in the footsteps of messmer. im waiting for this all to come together more coherently.

[@yunkinto]

That scene of Marika holding up that golden thing looks straight up like the eclipse scene from berserk when the god hand appears

[@Arei1283]

The entrance to the crucible, looks like the sun set in the Elden beast arena, also the Elden beast’s theme is playing, this could be marika when she first met the Elden beast and became a god after entering its realm

[@kimlee6643]

Miyazaki starting to refer to his own previous narratives to create a new layered narrative that's further thickened by this very effect sounds about right. "Remember Gwyn? Nice. This is not that... mostly not lol" That first scene was so striking that it actually obscured Miquella's segment for me, which is much grander sound/music-wise, somewhat in stark opposition. Even though I've rewatched it repeatedly, I still can't shake off that picturesque shot of gold birthed from blood, it's so peculiarly alluring. It's so unusually visceral for ER that it's entering BB territory. I kinda can't believe the core and bait is Miquella, yet I'm now more interested in Marika than ever before lol And yes, extreme copium. Do not pull a Charred Thermos yet though, you need more vids.

[@timdiggity]

I know, that imagery is so beautiful and terrifying. I really hope we get to somehow visit that location in-game.

[@kimlee6643]

​@@timdiggity It's 100% a boss room. Trust.

[@nnnnnnnnn8888]

@@kimlee6643yes, something like elden beast arena.

[@Ozone946]

Remember that it’s also made by GRRM. It also pulls from ideas from his works.

[@heroicspirit2764]

​@@timdiggityI really, really hope so! I'm even more interested in Marika after that scene in the trailer, I hope we get to find out exactly what was happening in it

[@mladenspasic4233]

Yap warning, but I would love to hear everyones thoughts: The formless mother is the one seduced and betrayed by Marika. She is also the crucible (the primordial form of the erdtree, the erdtree is an object of faith, and so are gods). She used to have a form but she now exists solely in the shadowlands (divested of flesh - bodiless). Messmer is their child, groomed by Marika to become the "tyrant" that conquered the shadowlands faction with Marika, enabling her ascenscion to godhood. Why dont we know how the crucible "looks"? The crucible is this formless mother. This betrayed formless mother craves wounds... and what do we know about Marika, after her golden son dies and her order starts collapsing - she has high hopes "we continue to struggle" - neat parallel. The formless mother/crucible is the mother of truth. Marika is hiding the omen, hiding the truth. And the crucible is the formless mother of omen. Now... i dont know who this formless mother couldve been. Maybe placidusaxs god-queen? Makes sense we know nothing about her identity seeing as the victors write and rewrite history Also one note - Messmer being the child of this other party explains the possible coexistence of his blasphemous aspects, on one hand, and the alignance with Marika, on the other.

[@mladenspasic4233]

But history (in game descriptions and dialogue) marks the formless mother as an outer god because history has no records of the land of shadows and this is how they explain for example Mohg penetrating her womb out of thin air. "He's penetrating the womb of an Outer god" - Do we really think Mohg is touching and traversing through the same space Outer Gods occupy when he travels through his blood pools?

[@mladenspasic4233]

As to how Marika "took godhood" from the Crucible/Formless mother, idk. But maybe Marika rid the Crucible of her body somehow (Ranni losing her body made her lose the god candidate status), leaving the Crucible formless and unfit to be a vessel for the elden ring. Also, idk whether or not Mohg knows what he is doing when penetrating her. Could just be instinct. He "met her" in the sewers when his cursed blood started boiling, right? Thats under the capital. Pretty close to the roots of the Erdtree, where I would assume her remnants would be the strongest (the trailer looks as if this betrayal happened at the foot of the later-Erdtree.

[@mladenspasic4233]

Im not even super convinced on all this cause I completely left out GEQ, but maybe someone can fit her in there hehe

[@mladenspasic4233]

I figured it out. GEQ and Marika are sisters, the first "empyreans". Marika betrayed her mother. GEQ got mad and started the Godskin Hunt. Marika was like "nah" and sent Maliketh to kill her and seal away Destined Death, no more threats for Marika.

[@mladenspasic4233]

Some random thoughts: What if the painting with the old guy and the lady, are the parents of Marika and GEQ? Did the ships portrayed on obelisks carry Greater Will cattle - Numen - long lived vessel candidates?

[@cvf4ever]

The unknown character might be the lady that appears on a painting next to an old man in the previous trailer. This old man, later in the trailer, is seen having a golden stake through his body and it seems he's ripping it out. The weapon and the lady mourning over it in this trailer might be related to them. I'd also say that he might be Milos, but the weapon shown here doesn't have a similar design, though the hilt is similar to the Elden Beast's sword.

[@Crumsie]

You had me sold on the Melina=Miquella when you brought up the great point that St Trina could have gotten a haircut

[@44theshadow49]

I think that line about miquela divesting himself of his flesh supports the Mequela theory. Doesnt melina say shes burnt and bodiless or something? Maybe miquela burnt alive by mesmers flame?

[@weebto]

Your Melina = Miquella theory made me a fan, the Neon White OST turned me into an air conditioner

[@timdiggity]

After the next video you’ll be a jet engine

[@kevinfortsch]

In breakfown videos of the first trailer youtubers talk about the dancing lion boss possibly being 3 people under the cloak. Nkw in this trailer, we see the lion boss attack messmer, and then a few clips later we see 3 dead omen impaled.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

I think the light purple is peak St Trina is Miquella is Melina, purple means dreams, and also I don't think thats hair, looks like cloth/a veil to me.

[@timdiggity]

I just realized that about the veil! I kinda rushed to make the video, but yeah it's definitely not hair.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@timdiggity no worries :)

[@Dargos_L]

"Whoever it is, I think this is going to be an important character" Oh no, you said. You jinxed it. Now this character will only be referenced by a single item

[@donotdisturb5755]

Lovely to see you drop another video. Keep it up

[@adriablancoclaramunt3065]

3:19 Mesmer body looks kinda similar to the body inside the cocoon in Mogh's Arena. Also, watching the soldiers walking perfectly synchronized plus Messmer's poise looks like he is controlling them as a puppeteer. Messmer name itself sounds as 'mesmerize', which is similar to the ability of the Bewitching Branch.

[@ChristmasLore]

I've got a "Trinity" theory, Of the 3 aspects of a god: Miquella (androgynous/child)/ Mesmer (male) / St Tryna (female) There's more to it but dinner is waiting to be made

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

The threads Marika holds up start to grow. In a similar shape to her rune.

[@moxiewatts]

100% amazing analysis once again!! LOVE IT.

[@timdiggity]

Thanks so much Moxie! ❤️

[@Dredguno]

Editing, music, and theories on point

[@Kretek]

I still believe in your "Melina is St. Trina" theory. Even in this shot: 5:24 those are not hairs. This is some kind of veil, and we dont know what is underneath it. They obviously hiding his/her face for a reason. When we meet Melina in front of Gatefront Ruins side of Grace, she is surounded by pale purple mist. And when she appears, our character is reacting like he/she is waking up from a sleep. Now when I look at it, your theory seems so damn obvious. You are right in my opinion. I mean, even her hairs have this purple'ish hue.

[@omardan]

nice adjustments to the music my man, now your voice is so clear and the music volume is just right!

[@BigBadWolframio]

Random things I'm thinking after watching and rewatching the video: - From an affair and betrayal, gold and shadow were born: maybe the Erdtree and the Land of Shadow..., but maybe also Godwyn and Messmer? They fit that duality and would place Godwyn's birth somewhere in the timeline. As Marika's firstborn, it was assumed he was born of her union with Godfrey, but nowhere he's stated to be his son. - The weirdly flaccid and stitched skin from that eye Marika (in male form? She's not wearing her signature braid and dress, she's wearing her hair and skirt exactly like Godwyn) takes the golden threads from, plus the purple sky and flayed bodies, screams GEQ to me. - After witnessing that bloody horror, it's easier to understand Marika's motivations and extreme measures in sealing death away. -Are those bodies the precursor of the Erdtree? Bodies are fed back to the Erdtree, and Miquella uses his own blood to grow the Haligtree. This amount of death could surely grow a powerful tree that bestows many blessings. The shine coming from inside, is it the Elden Beast? - Miquella is what Gideon Ofnir would what to be: someone truly curious about the world, who is capable of leaving his presumptions (the Golden Order) and his position (his Golden flesh, his fate) behind in pursuit of the truth. -St Trina appears just when the narrator talks about Miquella's fate... As all empyreans except for him are women, is St Trina what gave him right to ascend to godhood? With that obscuring veil, it could still be Melina, don't worry 😋

[@hhowdy]

I think the narrator is the knight in front of the rest of Miquellas followers. She seems to be the leader of all of them and obviously has some importance

[@timdiggity]

That’s possible. But that knight’s robe looks white to me, where the character in the first trailer has a dark robe. But maybe it’s just the lighting. We’ll see!

[@TheMrGiannisgr]

Please keep it up. Great work. I’d like more theories on Melina if possible. Have a great day sir!

[@koi6685]

Love these!

[@theRunel0rd]

Nobody is mentioning that the shot at 5:25 looks EXACTLY like the wing of a nascent butterfly?

[@laszlokovac6173]

Your Videos show that you are one of the best Elden Ring content creators. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the good work.

[@colonelchapstick]

amazing video, also loved the music from neon white!

[@moriarty1620]

I assume the knight at the front is the one talking and also the one who stood in the mohgwyn palace the claok she wears looks almost the same even with it being layered.

[@ZapRedfield]

You are a legend now

[@44theshadow49]

Fuck yess more lore

[@mladenspasic4233]

Marika and GEQ were sisters, GEQ had the rune of death, and Marika the rune of life The painting in the gameplay trailer is a family photo (they are twins with whom the woman in the painting is pregnant with) GEQ rid herself of her burning body in her dying moments, allowing Marika to control life and death in the Lands Between making her a god

[@lupinsensei7456]

St Trina, Miquela, the Gloam Queen. the Holy trinity. ER is literally the story of the passage from duality to triality

[@Ozone946]

Then who is the fourth that is excluded?

[@producerdevelopment]

@@Ozone946the main character being Jesus

[@ellem__]

amazing vid

[@Hunko115]

06:18 I'm pretty sure the girl knight with the cape is the one that is at Mohg's arena. She seems to be their ''leader'' of some sorts. So having her guide us to the shadowlands makes the most sense. 06:18 If you look carefully you can see that she is wearing greaves, and no one else has that color of cape but the female knight.

[@yellowlemon92]

the falling St. Trina image looks like a Nascent Butterfly if you put it upside down

[@DeadlyTinyOrc]

Sounds like ds2. The seduction and betrayal. The crazed queen and the king.

[@shaolin215]

Ya boi don’t miss! “anotha one”

[@jarroddt]

I still really want to believe the Helphen has a part in this DLC 😭😭😭

[@GonadsOfGodrey]

I can't wait for this channel to double back on all the theories after the DLC.

[@timdiggity]

😢

[@Meteorsmasher1]

The Elden Sniper strikes again

[@gibbzster]

Here are some of my thoughts about the trailer. 1. When the narrator states " and so to was shadow born" could allude to not only the creation of the golden order but also the creation of maliketh as it was stated before in the main game that the plucking of desitned death brought about the golden order and marika needed a vessel to place destined death. Maliketh is also her shadow. 2. It could also mean the weaving together of the elden ring from the strands of grace and runes that marika joined together. 3. The betrayal could be a coup d etat that marika instigated to brought forth a war that will lead to alot of death and bloodshed needed to offer up to the formation of the erde tree or its creation. She may have had to isolate true death to propagate the cycle of rebirth via the erde tree. 4. The lion dancer seems to be a symbol of the crucible because of its physical traits. Marika like she did before orchestrated a genocide to put forth the necessary ingridients to put her plan into fruition.

[@millifromdtx7814]

Finally 🔥

[@theoutergod8666]

The golden strands pulled from the corpse are obviously foundation for the Elden Ring. After all, in the very first announcement trailer, when Radagon/Marika did their thing with the ring, there were many similar strands before. These strands are the laws, what connects and influences the world.

[@visti6632]

crazy theory(im just bored): In the first scene, Marika holds blonde hairs while standing in a place that looks like a portal between The Shadows Lands and the lands between. Melina said she was born next to the golden tree, right? And by the golden hairs, perhaps we are witnessing the birth of Miquella, curiously being born on the border of two different worlds.

[@timdiggity]

Hmmmm, I like it!

[@mralabbad7]

What if miquella also tried the betrayal method by promising all the albanorics that they'll be reborn with him when the haligtree is complete. But in reality, he was using them to feed it along with his blood!! Just like how marika looks like she's making the erdtree in this trailer out of a mountain of corpses!

[@Based_investor]

Marika seduced the dragons to find out how to overtake the Crucible (pull strands of gold out of _____), then betrayed them all.

[@bronowiczj]

This dude!!!! Yes!

[@fiskfraansmoegen]

The golden threads Marika holds up in the beginning made me think of the way she's crucified/hung up in the base game, and it made me think of the shape of her rune (or at least what I thiiiink the shape of her rune is supposed to be?), and in the shot later in the trailer, where the camera pans upwards from the city aflame to the tree, the crucified Marika shape is seen again, in gold. This made me think that it's symbolic of Marika "watching over" Messmer and his actions in the Land of Shadow, or somehow sanctioning what he's doing, that she very much is part of his plan or that he's doing it on her behalf? Also the new sites of grace, are what I assume to be in the shape of Miquellas rune? if so, his rune's outer arc very much resembles (to me at least) the shape of the crescent moon 🌙 - or, more fitting for what we learn of him in the base game lore - a crescent sun, which could be a tie in to his plans to eclipse the sun? Furthermore, I'm inclined to side with those who ponder if maybe Messmer is Godwyns twin - and they were the Gold and Shadow the voice in the trailer references. Godwyn is after all said to be Marikas firstborn, and it's incredibly unclear if his other parent is actually Godfrey, so he and Messmer then may be the result of Marikas "affair" the trailer mentions, if the affair is a literal reference to a sexual affair. And since Messmer is heavily linked to snakes, it also made me think of how Godwyn (at least after he "dies", though maybe also before that?) has a fishtail - not exactly a snake but definitely scaley - could be another hint to a possible connection between the two, and whoever their non-Marika parent then would be?

[@bokki94]

Who says that Godwyn is Marika's firstborn? There is no mention of that

[@fiskfraansmoegen]

@@bokki94 Oh, it doesn't? My bad then, must've misinterpreted the lore! I thought I heard/read it somewhere in game in the dialogue/the item descriptions, but I mightve just misunderstood. Thanks for questioning! 😊

[@bokki94]

@@fiskfraansmoegen np, common misconception. For all we know he might be called "the golden" exactly because he was born after Mogh and Morgott

[@fiskfraansmoegen]

@@bokki94 Hopefully we'll get some more hints/answers regarding it in the DLC! 🙏

[@peterndungu3615]

Where Marika is standing looks like the entrance to the erdtree. Where there is a white-gold barrier...

[@ladooshka]

I like how the first line is about Miquella the kind. Take this, all you, who thinks Miquella is some sort of evil and should not be trusted! I am with Malenia who believes in her brother.

[@Noodlepunk]

I was kind of hoping we would get a Miquella ending. I am a true Miquella beliver.

[@BigBadWolframio]

Here we are. The Miquella sisterhood 😞✌️. I'm still convinced that he's a flawed but largely benign character.

[@Guiquipedia]

@@BigBadWolframio I think what’ll happen is that he went into the Land of Shadow in order to do something good but he bit off more than he can chew and he got turned into a freaky mutant monster. Many such cases!

[@Markus___]

If you look closely, the building isn't decomposing into fragments, those are people.

[@thegreatmajora5089]

4:33 Might be madly wrong, but what if the seduction and betrayal being talked about is Marika seducing the god Placidusax is waiting for still ? We know that dragons can take human forms, so for all we know Messmer is literally half-dragon, which would explain the flames and communion traits.

[@BrunoCampos0122]

My theory is that Marika created Erdtree with the corpses and the rune that appear at the beginning, giving rise to the Golden Order and at the same time to the veil (the shadow that was born) that hides the Land of Shadows. Messmer was born from some relationship that Marika had before entering the Lands Between that resulted in a betrayal on her part that was necessary for the creation of the Golden Order. Perhaps Marika left Messmer in the Land of Shadows so he could begin a purge of that civilization (an Omen civilization who worshiped the Crucible, maybe??), promising that he would see her again one day or some other promise. Miquella wanted to know the truth about his mother because this truth could be fundamental to his personal goals, which is why he enters the Land of Shadows.

[@XAVIERRE24]

This video goes hard with Neon White music ngl

[@silvercri3356]

@timdiggity 5:41 that’s not hair it’s probably some kind of headdress the end of it looks cloth-like. It’s also looks a bit transparent and the dress reminds me a bit of the nascent butterfly.

[@-Kailinn-]

My first thought seeing the person in the fire, cradling what might be a spear or ceremonial weapon, was that it's a deathbed companion. Perhaps she's mourning the loss of someone where all that's left is their weapon.

[@ghostgate82]

The “rune of death” is DNA. 🧬

[@bigdoopy]

oh baby

[@Callmesirdangit]

HEY someone reacting to your vid really got me thinking after the new trailer release... here's a thought I had after an overdose on theory lately I'm thinking the Erdtree was grown by Marika (with Messmer providing the raw material through the Purge) to distill and siphon off the light (Grace) from the Land, creating a gold-lit but fading Lands Between, to which the only gateway is the Erdtree itself, leaving that land with only darkness (Shadow) and making herself the Goddess of the new world. The only way to pass through that gate is divesting yourself of your power and your body ... unless of course you're the bearer of the Elden Ring itself. (As a side note, I think the Erdtree is like a grand set of stairs to the second story of a house - the first floor being the Lands of Shadow, and the new second story which Marika just brute-forced access to is the Lands Between. The burned body of Miquella is kinda like a drop-down attic staircase, but you need to be dead to climb it.) Towards the end of the main game, Melina needed to burn herself by burning the Erdtree so that she could BOTH create a path for you to become Elden Lord, AND return to the Land of Shadow through the Erdtree and be reunited with the other half of her persona, Miquella. Which explains why she's rather put out if you burn the Ertree yourself with the Frenzied Flame. She's "burned and bodiless" because Miquella already burned his body to enter the Land of Shadow through the Erdtree, but to send part of himself back to orchestrate a coup against Messmer (the precept of the Land of Shadow), and having already divested himself of his body, he needed to divest himself of himself. Melina doesn't know she's Miquella because she's only a shadow of him. She doesn't know her destiny or purpose, only that she's supposed to guide the Tarnished to become Elden Lord so that that Tarnished could both return his emissary (Melina) to the Land of Shadow to be reintegrated back to Miquella AND help him conquer Messmer. St. Trina is the same kind of alter ego of Miquella, but she was his alter ego while he still had a body in the Lands Between. And for all I know, The Gloam-Eyed Queen is the same type of shadow-emissary of Marika (or better yet, Radagon)- a divested part of herself to help form the cult of Messmer and the Godskin Hunters to play both sides against the middle and get her way, or something like that... (I'm sure that loosely could cover a good amount of "seduction and betrayal") With the level of story developement that she gets in both the base game and apparently the DLC, there's no way a figure like Marika gets a single boss fight in the base game with no dialog. The real Marika is the Gloam-eyed Queen, and the mother of Messmer is still pulling the strings in the Land of Shadow. I'll leave someone else to figure out the dang butterflies. Hope that's schizo enough ya.

[@Callmesirdangit]

ps. Don't delete your channel.

[@astron1973]

my crack theory is that mesmer is the child of gloomed eye queen, and marika seduced him. he was her 1st elden lord, and then she made him betray his mother, thus the war/invasion anad etc. marika didnt like the way he did things and then locked him and the land of shadows behind the veil

[@TheMk114]

Maybe melina and mesmer are the children of marika and the gloam eyed queen, from the seduction they talk about?

[@RecusantEcho]

Neon White soundtrack going hard for this lore!!

[@timdiggity]

The shot of Messmer looking down on the city with Neon White behind it goes too hard

[@mani5.738]

Marika used Messmer to go on a conquest and even exiled him afterwards. Kinda like Hela and Odin in Thor Ragnarok

[@anonymousragnarok_2272]

Tim, what are your thoughts on Blade of Calling's description. Its clearly refering to Melina right? Meaning she was intentionally hidden away too. I love your theory abour Melina being St.Trina but the Blade of Calling might suggest that Melina was a separate existence that was hidden away rather than just a spirit for travelling b/w the Lands Between and the Land of Shadows. And since there is a dead Official outside the the isolated secret room, it would mean that her existence was a very tightly guarded secret.

[@elapeter]

Ever thought of the possibility that St Trina and the Blind Swordsmen are in reality the shadows of Miquella and Malenia because in the backstories and more they are only ever mentioned with them never truly alone and Melina is maybe the Shadow of the Gloam Eyed Queen?

[@ritesh2raj]

4:27 So this will make your hair stand. Rykard also has yellow eyes, so maybe Mesmer's yellow eye is not related to dragons but to snakes.

[@pa20102]

Since we are speculating…. Just realized that destined death was hidden with maliketh because they wanted to prevent that new souls went to the dreamworld… I believe that to go to the dreamworld u must die… that could lead to think that instead of Melina put us to “sleep” we were “killed” in a way that we came back before destined death was released with maliketh’s death… since death could not happen in the lands between… also I believe that each demigod has a counterpart in the land of death, being Mesmer sent there by dying and being put in.. well I don’t know.. a cocoon… we’ll just being crazy here

[@radthadd]

The person holding the grace in the trailer is Radigan before his hair turned red - it's a man's body

[@CreatorsstudioUK]

The robe in the first trailer is Melina, it has the exact same pattern on her robe

[@edgedante]

Messmer is Godwyn the Golden's twin brother. Every other child she had had a twin of which was in many ways a far opposite.

[@elliottvantonder5477]

Messmer's clothes look much more like the Dragonkin Warriors' imo, with their red capes embroidered with gold and crudely hammered plate armour. Though the Dragonkin Soldiers look worn and ragged and are covered in bandages. Possibly from being cast out for centuries at this point. But I want to make it absolutely clear that Messmer's clothes look nothing like the Drake Knight set. I hate that rumour so much. People just pass it on without actually looking to see that the two are entirely different. The drake set is composed of fluted steel cuisses, bracers, pauldrons and helmet, inlaid with orange runes and horns, with a red scarf featuring bright red feathers, a full dragon wing cape, brown leather belts and boots and a stained chainmail tunic. The whole ensemble has a feel of late Germanic armour sets, with its mix of materials and precise shapes of the curved steel. Messmer is styled as a Roman general of antiquity. He's wearing sandals. He is wearing a plate cuirass, greaves and a single bracer. He appears to have a loose chain/scalemail tunic under the cuirass and a red cape and skirt over. The Cape has golden fringe and embroidery that resembles banners of Roman legionnaires. It's a completely different set of materials, designs and eras of armour.

[@okjesse]

The body’s are the crucible, the gold strands become the Elden Ring, Marikas is Messmirs mother, Melina is either the GEQ or the spawn of the GEQ. Lock those answers in for sure.

[@Diplexsy]

love your videos but one critiscism that I have is to use songs in the background that go well with elden ring's theme rather than electronic dnb and such

[@theok391]

"They were never saints, they just happened to be on the losing side of the war" Perhaps... Marika was losing the war, robbed the Gloam Eyed Queens victory by ambushing her (Messmer helped Marika and got betrayed), and became the new ruler, deeming her as Saint of the new Order (Golden Order).

[@rudydaberry122]

What I want to know is what was all that flesh laying everywhere almost like the world was made of flesh

[@Kodama666]

i really strongly think that Messmer looks more like a godskin than a dragon communion user, and he also never uses anything even remotely resembling a dragon spell as of what we know currently. I think him and his unusual flame/powers will be tied to this "affair" marika had, likely with the gloam eyed queen, as radagon, but could be more nuanced than this. his flame does vaguely resemble the dragon communion symbol, but this could easily be superficial as it is absolutely not a 100% match, and it is more akin to our human senses finding patterns where there may not be any

[@mladenspasic4233]

Hey can you explain why you think the losing side of the war are crucible/omen aligned, and not any other faction? Afaik the only one of their troops we see for certain is the lion dancer, and we're not even sure what exactly they are yet. I feel like Im missing something obvious

[@timdiggity]

The bodies impaled on spears at 3:34 have omen horns, which was the main thing that made me think that.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@timdiggity I kinda think those things are the 'lion face' enemies that is actually 2 guys under a costume thingy. They were in the first trailer too and you could make out their feet and stuff. They're on spears because they part of the army that got defeated, no? Hmm, maybe I'm wroong, there seems to be some kinda tail on them too which Omen do have yeh, but I also took it as the long costume they wore. IDK haha Maybe this is what troubles/torments the Omen in their sleep? As seen in the base game. They relive this war over and over in their sleep.

[@iboofer]

@@timdiggity And maybe this is why the omen lions are usually slaves, scarred and forced to fight. Maybe in this original culture they were honored, with the lion dancers taking on their aspect in a form of respect and veneration.

[@nobleotero3208]

The affair is the reason Godfrey was banished and Morgott and Mohg are Omen.

[@edasayg5774]

Marika seduced the snake. And she betrayed the snake god and message is the son of that snake. That's why snake is the enemy of the order i believe

[@Astrophobia88]

5.52 Why is nobody mentioning the eye of Sauron casually sitting under the tree? Souron is the dlc main villain im telling ya!!!

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

My guess is Marika and Messmer went to war, and by showing us the brutal war, we know that messmer's side weren't saints. The timing of the dialogue in the original trailer fits that concept.

[@exodia9012]

I wonder if the tarnished went to the DLC as the vassal for frenzied flame will characters (NPCs) Treat him differently and have different dialogue with him or some events will play different, like for example we know that Miqula is against the outer gods because he has his own plans, how will he react when he meets the tarnished who yet to become the lord of frenzied flame

[@FaeQueenCory]

One of the biggest things that still sticks with me... "There never were any saints, just the losing side of a war." from the first trailer. Miquella is *Saint* Trina.

[@joshuamorris6881]

Just had a random thought about Elden ring. What if Mesmer is Godwyns twin. Godwyn is the only sibling who isn’t paired with another in the base game. And we know that he’s one of the oldest of all the siblings. And with the shadow realm being Marikas first steps to Queenhood she probably had the birth of both Godwyn and Mesmer here. And the two almost play out like Margot and and Mohg. One who is the literal golden child for the Elden Ring and wants to preserve it and the other who wants to replace it with their own rule and fundamentals.

[@murderycatdoll1380]

In the Trailer there is this Woman burning in the war scenes. I think that is Melina! The Moment she gut burned and bodyless.

[@vtrhbr]

Yo wtf I've been spamming Neon White to get White's Hell Rush and the video started it that OST haha I have PTSD now

[@rosenjake]

when the narrator mentions 'seduction', the Japanese word can also be read as 'temptation'

[@WarriorofMars]

I'm still holding out for my crackpot theory that Melina is some variety of offspring of Miquella/Trina, rather than another aspect directly: Marika bears Messmer first, convinces him to fight the old civilization, he later gets pissed and burns the erdtree, Marika has him "banished" to the Shadowlands (i.e. killed in flesh), Miquella is born, grows to hate golden order, finds out about old, dead half-brother Messmer, makes a dream/spirit baby maiden to use as kindling to finish the job. This all came from Melina implying at one point that she's no longer doing her mother's mission, but burning the tree for her own reasons. Theory doesn't really hold water, but I like it all the same 😂

[@Jaredtckr12223]

Do you think it’s relevant that Gold/ Yellow is the opposite on the color wheel from Gloam/ Purple?

[@timdiggity]

For sure. Color is such a big thing in Elden Ring, I think that’s definitely intentional. I think the DLC will definitely explore this with the duality of Miquella (gold) and St. Trina (purple)

[@moseswilson2932]

That shot of Trina looks like the nascent butterfly

[@mattbrown9631]

Since the very first DLC IMAGE, not even any trailers, arrived, my first thought was always the Crucible. After seeing that fleshy, messy opening to this story trailer, and Marika pulling out who knows what from who knows what kind of body/orifice, yeah this is Crucible