Elden Ring - Everything We Know About Ranni (UPDATED VERSION)

[@Eladelia]

On the topic of Ranni as some sort of inversion/reflection: To me Ranni looks a great deal like she may have been designed to resemble the negative of an image. When you color-invert an image (as photographic negatives do), human skin in the "white" range typically looks blue and hair (color obviously varies) often gets a very glowy quality. (Also, for whatever it's worth, the phantom face to the side is more clearly distinct if you take an image of Ranni and run it through a color inversion tool.) I don't know what it means, but it feels like something that probably wasn't entirely accidental given the other things about Ranni that seem to point toward inversions and shadows.

[@Eladelia]

Re: the idea that Rennala can't rebirth Ranni because Ranni's soul is still out and about: Probably not true. Rennala gets roughly the same results with Boc if Boc goes to her seeking rebirth. (It seems that having the rune of the unborn is what makes it work for the player, but if we have it with us why do we need to go to Rennala specifically? And if she's the one who actually has it... why aren't we taking it?)

[@sneekmuch]

Rannnis form is based off her mentor (A snow witch) as it describes in Rannis armor set text.

[@agopessimist1335]

I still don't personally buy the theory that Renna is Ranni's "reflection", as the evidence you provided might be explained in different methods. Sure, the Baleful Shadow we fight looks like Blaidd, but remember that Blaidd was Ranni's Shadow, and Malekith was Marika's Shadow. Both Blaidd and Malekith were Wolven-like figures chosen by the Two Fingers, so it's possible that there are other Wolven-like figures that are created/bred by the Two Fingers for the sole purpose of being Shadows to Empyreans/gods. Also, Godefroy could have just been a descendant of the Golden Lineage, and Godrick is just the last of that specific lineage. Grafting could have been a practice that was passed down from Godefroy or earlier all the way to Godrick. Godrick is said to be the runt of the litter and with very diluted god blood. Maybe Godrick is a descendant of Godwyn (hence why he's referred to as Godrick the Golden, which only Godwyn had). Also, I would like to give an alternate theory to the Ranni = Melina theory because I don't personally buy it, but also because there is more evidence of it being contrary. Instead of Melina being Ranni, I believe that Melina was once the Gloam-Eyed Queen who ruled over the Godskin Apostles and once controlled Destined Death. Some of the reasons for this include: 1. The Gloam-Eyed Queen is mentioned to be an Empyrean just like Ranni, Miquella, and Malenia, and Melina IS the daughter of Marika. Not only is it heavily implied in-game, but Melina's game ID is literally "Daughter of Marika". As a daughter of Marika, Melina is an Empyrean. As for why Ranni might be unaware of Melina/Gloam-Eyed Queen as another Empyrean, it is because the Gloam-Eyed Queen and her Godskin Apostles were defeated by Malekith long ago, where afterward their Black Flame spells were severely weakened once Malekith sealed Destined Death within him. If Malekith sealed Destined Death and defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, it would explain why Melina seems to have lost her memories, or how she knew to go to the Flame of Ruin to burn the Erdtree down. Plus, Melina is stated to have been born at the roots of the Erdtree. When you acquire Deathroot in-game, their item descriptions say that the fragments of the Rune of Death spread through the roots of the Erdtree. Maybe Melina could either be the Gloam-Eyed Queen herself who once housed Destined Death within herself, or she could be a fragment of the Rune of Death that manifested within the Erdtree's roots. 2. Melina has more of a connection with Destined Death compared to Ranni. Ranni only uses Destined Death to kill her own body, whereas Melina has frequently mentioned Destined Death and how Death needs to be "spread indiscriminate" throughout the Lands Between. Also, at the Flame of Ruin, Melina is the one who teleports the Tarnished to Faram Azula, where Malekith has sealed Destined Death. 3. Melina has the moveset of the Black Knives, and her weapon the Blade of Calling, has a similar ability to the Black Knife in that it can drain HP just like Malekith's Black Blade, but uses Holy Magic. 4. Instead of Melina's eye being bluish like Ranni's, bear in mind that Melina's eye is far darker in tone compared to Ranni's. Remember that the Gloam-Eyed Queen is also known as the Dusk-Eyed Queen, and Gloam also means "twilight". Melina's left eye gives off a more twilight/dusk coloring compared to the pale blue of Ranni's eye. 5. Melina being Ranni doesn't make sense narratively since they have different goals in mind. Ranni wants to ensure that the Golden Order is as far away from the Lands Between as possible, whereas Melina only wants you to become Elden Lord and mend the Elden Ring. Melina want's you to keep the Golden Order in place by succeeding Radagon as Elden Lord and bringing order back to the Lands Between. She only acts against you if you choose the Frenzied Flame ending, in which Ranni makes no appearance or mention of against you. Still, greatly appreciate the follow-up video you made Max! If you're continuing with Elden Ring videos, can you do some on the Outer Gods of the Lands Between, or maybe on Miquella who seems to be the most mysterious of the Demi-gods? EDIT: I also forgot to mention that Melina specifically mentions that she will deliver the Lord of Frenzied Flame Destined Death, and this ONLY OCCURS if you spared her by acting as kindling yourself to burn the Erdtree. With Malekith's death the Rune of Death becomes unbound, and it is only in this scenario that we see Melina reveal her twilight eye. As the previous holder of Destined Death, Melina would have finally regained her former powers with the Black Flame, hence why we only see her left eye open in the Frenzied Flame ending and nowhere else.

[@WheatDos]

1 - Melina wants you to save the world, not necessarily restore the Golden Order (she even burns the Erdtree the main symbol of the order), 2 - She also does not go against you if you follow Ranni, so their goals are not completely different. 3 - Radagon and Marika are the same person, and yet one wanted to repair the Elden Ring while the other wanted to shatter it. Ranni and Melina can have the same relationship of "one individual, two minds". 4 - Since, if this theory is correct, they can have their own objectives, Melina can still be the Empyrean known as the Gloam-Eyed Queen (with the destined death rune) while Ranni later becomes the one who rejects their empyrean nature and burns herself using said death rune.

[@FigmentHF]

I’m not remotely compelled by the Ranni is Melina, theory. Two vastly distinct characters. Both are daughters of Marika, however. I believe Melina is simply a Kindling Maiden, who’s role was to burn the Erd Tree to remove the thorns so that the tarnished may slay the God. It’s fairly explicit that Marika wanted the Blacksmith to make a weapon for the tarnished that was capable of killing a God. I think all the events of the game and lore are essentially a convoluted, conspiratorial, multigenerational plot to rid the realm of the influence of an Outer God

[@Nintaboy]

@@FigmentHF that would explain the existence of Miquellas needle also and unalloyed gold also

[@JulesFaraday22]

Tl:dr

[@jojipoji2322]

What about the first maiden that visits you with torrent after the Chapel of Anticipation? Who is she? And what about the other dead maidens found in the Chapel of Anticipation and at the Church? Who are they? And what about the blind woman who wishes to become a maiden after you give her the Grapes?

[@dyelawn893]

On Ranni’s birth mother and Empyrean status. The game mentions that Miquela and Malenia are Empyreans due to the circumstances of being born to a single God. But while that qualifies them by default, in Ranni’s dialogue she describes Empyreans primary definition is being chosen by the 2 Fingers as a being worthy of of becoming the bearer of the Elden Ring. Much like how the Greater Will elevated Marika from her average Numen stock, the 2 fingers who represent the Greater Will, would elevate Ranni to Empyrean in order to replace Marika likely to restore the Rune of Death to the Elden Ring. TLDR: Their is evidence that Empyreans do not have to be born from one God, but that all beings born of one God are by default Empyreans. Therefore Ranni could be born of Rennala and Radagon, and became Empyrean after being chosen by her 2 Fingers to replace Marika.

[@jakobsylvester7449]

Sorry but what evidence is there apart from rannis dialogue that actually does not explain anything about how one is qualified to be an empyrean apart from herself being one? Maybe ranni was born out of the egg and is not actually rennalas daughter so she was just radagons child? Idk the souls games never explain how procreation between gods actually is supposed to work. We cant even say whether the requirement is to have a Male and female to have offspring.

[@jonnymario771]

I still think they need to be born from one god. Theres a description stating it. Dont remember which, I think it was a Malenia item.

[@zypa0442]

I mean its pretty obvious, like that line in malenias remembrance and the fact that the only 2 empyreans besides ranni are miquella and malenia and they are born by 1 god

[@TheSilverOrn]

Marika wasn't "average Numen stock" she was already an Empyrean and had a shadow in the form of Malekith who she had adopted as a brother. She was always a god and was chosen by the greater will because she fit the criteria. Its a lot easier to be Elden Lord than it is to be a host for the Elden Ring. Also we have dialogue in the game that says that the only way to be Empyrean is to somehow have been born with only one god as the parent. To fit this in real world equivalency, Athena was born from a headache from Zeus and Aphrodite was born when Chronos threw his father's genitals into the ocean. Both would be considered Empyrean if we were going by real world equivalencies. Ares or Hephaestus would be considered just gods as they were Zeus and Hera's children.

[@jonnymario771]

@@TheSilverOrn Oh shit, Aphrodite is a dong.

[@Vaeland]

The fact that various characters have reflections is likely explained by the twinned armor set where it reveals that the D twins are the same soul split into two bodies. It also carries major implications with the sleep mechanic and characters forced into slumber like during Ranni’s quest as only one of the D’s can be active at a time. Another thing that might connect Ranni to the eternal city is the temple of Uhl. I havnt found any info on it but there are stone slabs everywhere that depict a bull so could be related to torrent and his original master

[@jojipoji2322]

Very true

[@gabrielcrispimdebarros9054]

I still believe that Ranni is the daughter of Rennala and Radagon, Rogier says this about her in his questline: "Now, I have a fairly good idea who performed the rite upon the blade. The person who orchestrated the Night of the Black Knives. Lunar Princess Ranni. One of the children born to King Consort Radagon and his first wife Rennala. Demigod and sister to General Radahn and Praetor Rykard. Her's was the name I discovered in the imprint." By the way, another factor that connects Ranni and Melina is that they both have rings (which even look the same)

[@Theodorehunt97]

Re: the Melina + Ranni connection. Spirit Caller Ashes, as far as I recall, are only used by one significant other character: Rennala during her fight. So if we use that to tie the fact that the former owner of the spirit caller ashes was also the owner of torrent, that’s another connection between Ranni + Melina + Rennala.

[@rwo23]

dont forget that phase 2 rennala isn't actually rennala, but Ranni's memory of rennala at her peak. Ranni's dialogue at the intro to phase 2 suggests this.

[@Theodorehunt97]

@@rwo23 absolutely, yeah I didn’t specifically enumerate this in the comment but it’s a crucial part of why it works

[@redveinborneo4673]

I love how this community can find a lore friendly reason for why you fight the same enemies more than once.

[@leftovernoise]

Idk if you mentioned it in the previous video or not, but the black wolf mask states "A mask fashioned after the head of a black wolf. Relic of an assassin who assumed the guise of Ranni the Witch's loyal shadow. The likeness is striking." so that leads me to believe there is a possibility the blaidds shadow we fight is in fact an assassin, impersonating blaidd edit: Love your videos man! excellent work!

[@lanceelopezz223]

Direct or simple reading can work. 1. The Dusk Eyed Queen is an Empyrean, Chosen by her Two Fingers. No word about 1 parent who’s a god on her part. 2. The game mentions that Ranni’s Two Fingers chose her to be an Empyrean. Being chosen is enough, for the two Fingaz are vassals of the greater will.

[@viktor_v-ughnda_vaudville_476]

I love how you immediately come back to update your video to address things like the mistranslations of her ending and to reply to and take into consideration what your passionate fans have to say and either stick with your guns and reinforce your preexisting thoughts and also address the comments of your fans so long as they may have merit to which you humbly and thoughtfully make adjustments to your previous content with class and handle it with an amount of class and ease that just shows how good you are at what you do

[@maxderrat]

Thank you thank you thank you for this comment!!!!! This is exactly what my intention was and I'm glad you articulated it as you did.

[@uHasioorr]

TBH I don't like theories that Empyrean = born from one god. 1. The strongest evidence for that is from Malenia's remembrance: "Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within." But I think it is simply overblown in importance, it just states that this is obvious that Marika's and Radagon's children would be Empyreans but it doesn't state that to be Empyrean you have to be the child of both of them. 2. Love that Rennala shows for Ranni just doesn't add up. I'm pretty sure that Rennala rebirths over and over again all those students of hers to perfect the process so she could rebirth Ranni. 3. MadSciHekl on reddit found: 'Black Flame Ritual description states: "The Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers." Whereas we don't know much about the Gloam-Eyed Queen, I think it's fair to say she's not related to Marika, as Marika's only sibling seems to be her half-brother Maliketh. It seems to me that an Empyrean is strictly related to being chosen by the greater will (or perhaps another outer god), as everyone who is an empyrean is seems to be guided by their own set of fingers. As Ranni states: "I was once an Empyrean. Of the demi-gods, only I, Miquella, and Malenia could claim that title. Each of us was chosen by our own two fingers, as a candidate to succeed Queen Marika, and become the new god for the coming age." ' 4. We know that Marika originally came from the lands of the Numen. She was an Empyrean who ascended to become ruler of the Lands Between with the assistance of an Outer God: the Greater Will BUT she wasn't the only one who came from lands of Numen BLACK KNIFE ARMOR description states: "The assassins that carried out the deeds of the Night of the Black Knives were all women, and rumored to be Numen who had close ties with Marika herself." Just like Marika they were from the lands of Numen but they are not some super powerful Empyreans running around, so that puts into question Marika's origins. If being born from a single god was a pre-requirement to be an Empyrean then how Marika qualified in the first place? In conclusion that theory just can't be true.

[@TheSeriane]

Hope you'll be feeling well soon bud

[@vde1846]

Nice to se you reference Ziostorm. I saw his vid on alchemy references in ER a while back, and immediately thought of your vids on alchemy in DS and BB. Have been encouraging his viewers to come over here in is comment section :) Stay yellow (not yelough, though...)

[@lachsack3266]

6:25 I think it suggested in the describtion of the black wolf mask that the red shadow you fight against is an assassin in disguise of blaidd

[@maxderrat]

Possible. That would have to mean that there is more than one Black Wolf Mask though. You can get the Black Wolf Mask before you fight the Baleful Shadow.

[@Aldoz]

I think that it is to show that they are sent by the fingers that were trying to control Ranni, because Blaidd also came from them and was a complete failure at keeping Ranni in line of their will. I guess its easier for them to use Blaidds model in stead of making a whole new model of wolfmen just for this fight anyways.

[@Yobolight]

Godefroy is an imposter sent to battle by Godrick in his place and captured during the war. He looks like Godrick because Godrick is a coward that wanted to appear to be going to battle without putting himself in danger. Much like how he dressed up as woman to escape during an earlier part of the war.

[@johnsmith-xw7hv]

And how he groveled for his life like a bitch when Scarlet Rot Bushido Wonder Woman kicked his ass.

[@shobooknight]

Ranni having red hair makes sense given that she's Radagons child, just like Radahn and Malenia. But I personally got the picture that Rennala was Rannis birth mother and Renna was her adoptive mother.

[@Xanatrix]

My biggest issue with the Ranni and Melina theories is timing. Melina even says she was born at the foot of the Erdtree, and that her mother is within the Erdtree. This implies that Melina was created after the Night of the Black Knives, after Marika sealed herself into the Erdtree.

[@Haitch_Kay]

Exactly. That's something that so, so many people seem to just gloss over with their theories. Honestly I'd go so far as to say that Melina probably isn't even a "real" person, rather something created by Marika. My current theory is that Melina was created by Marika for the express purpose of guiding a Tarnished to collect the Great Runes, burn the Erdtree, and become Elden Lord so that *Marika's* Golden Order can be put forward without the interference of the Greater Will.

[@tyrhoze9829]

This is so great of work! I have a hard time deciphering all that is in the story. Thanks so much 💛

[@stephenlanuto5993]

Max: if you want to skip the theory I already put forth, go to this timestamp Me: .....No I don't think I will

[@GoodLainFR]

Eternal City Scions rly sounds like some Elden Ring sports team

[@darkhobo]

Ranni is a reborn Melina. Melina is the death rune. She displeases Marika. Marika burns her and takes back the death rune. Melinas remains are put into an amber egg with the Rune of the Unborn (aka the Rune of Rebirth) and that allows Ranni to be born as a kind of clone of Melina.

[@knightcaelum968]

A video from you on the Albinaurics would be really interesting given they are homunculus in a game with heavy alchemy allusions and when it comes to come to alchemy in gaming you're the first KZbinr I think of. Good stuff.

[@captaincabinetts]

Don't take the comments too seriously, you do great videos!

[@Romapolitan]

I think there is a big misconception about the empyrians being inherently born of a single god. This comes mainly from the description of Malenias remembrance which says that the twins were born of a single god and therefore empyrians. It doesn't say you have to be born of a god to be one, but that it is guaranteed because of it.

[@Eladelia]

Maybe not even quite guaranteed; it could conceivably just be an indication that this was a big part of why they were chosen as empyreans. ("as such" indicates a relationship where one thing is causing another, but it can be used in situations where the outcome isn't mandatory. e.g. "She was a child, and as such she attended elementary school" the relationship between being a child and going to elementary school is strong, and being a child is the reason the hypothetical person is at school, but that doesn't mean that children who don't go to school cannot exist.)

[@cosminpislariu4540]

I completely agree with this and don’t know why soo many people latch on to the “empyreans can only be born of a single god” idea.

[@AscendantStoic]

I always had the impression that Empyrians in ER simply meant a demi-god capable of reaching true Godhood (like Marika who is referred to several times as the "One True God") and usher in a new era.

[@zypa0442]

I mean its pretty obvious, like that line in malenias remembrance and the fact that the only 2 empyreans besides ranni are miquella and malenia and they are born by 1 god

[@AscendantStoic]

@@zypa0442 Yeah, I finally beat Malenia and read her remembrance, it's the only confirmation I think that Empyreans are born from one god, previously the only information I found was they they have the potential to usher a new era.

[@AdequateProdigy]

An interesting development regarding the rune of death/destined death should be considered when forming a timeline for this world. In item descriptions relating to the black flame, it’s stated that the being known as the Gloam/Dusk eyed Queen once held the power of death, and it wasn’t until her defeat at the hands of Malekith that he became the true bearer of death. It could be argued that Marika may not have been the one to remove death from the Elden Ring, or at least when she did remove it, she didn’t immediately give it to Malekith for safe keeping. This could mean that this dusk eyed queen could have been the original guardian of death, until she made the decision that not even gods should be an exception to the rule of destined death, and when she rose up against Marika, Marika sent Malekith to take the rune in order to maintain her immortality.

[@EdenHolder]

Some have likened Radragon and Marika to the alchemical concept of the Rebis, the Magnum Opus. I'd love to see your thoughts on this, especially as it could tie into Bloodborne's Paleblood being the Philosophers Stone. A look into the many alchemy links would be great.

[@jonnymario771]

Paleblood is the title given to the Moon Presence aka nameless moon by Byrgenwerth.

[@thalia5382]

I thought the same thing about the Rebis 😦 I mentioned it in Vaati’s video comments

[@datraucous3351]

Always gonna have critics who think they know more or can do better yet they do nothing but criticize. Appreciate your efforts!

[@Mankey619]

Now that you’ve mentioned it. I do feel that that there’s a connection between Melina and Ranni. They do have some similar aspects with one and another,and they both close they’re eye. It’s a pretty interesting theory and Elden Ring has really provided such great lore.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

Melina is certainly connected to Marika in some way, and in my opinion is either the daughter of Marika or perhaps even an aspect of her. Like, the child version of Marika. She says she was born long ago within the Erdtree, where Marika is imprisoned, and in several churches of Marika she can recall specific words Marika gave to others at various times (though who she is addressing in each little speech or when is left to the player to puzzle out). It's a bit unclear ultimately and definitely something I'd like there to be more info on.

[@m3divh]

Hey :3 Nice vid, one thing through is a bit wrong. Godfrey actually after winning against the Giants lost some of his will, some of his inner drive... The direct quote in the game is that he lost "The Glimer in his eye" ... he was exiled, so that he would no longer be a part of the Golden order (Which basically made him immortal) to wage a war somewhere... (Not specified). The idea was that he would find his motivation again if he was forced into a conflict in which he would be able to die again... :3

[@thehourman37]

Very nice, Max. Keep on keeping on

[@MANTRAPLAYSGAMES]

Great Video, thank you for all your hard work! I never saw the first video but i respect and appreciate the revisions!

[@dasuero7489]

Hey, Max! What an interesting lore video, and I'm beginning to see why so many see Ranni as a waifu. Besides that, I'm beyond inspired by how much you take into consideration looking at your comment section and redressing mistakes where necessary so that your content is perfected and at its best that it can humanly be. One last sidenote: I noticed your voice sounds raspy it seems you've gotten sick and that might be coincidence or synchronicity because I'm recovering from either the flu or cold I caught from by parents who got it from their coworker or friend. Get well soon and I can't wait for your Chrono-Trigger game as I've heard many great things and profound ideas around that title. Looking forward to it. Stay yellow, man.

[@maxderrat]

Hey D Asuero! This was such a nice comment to read, especially because I’m reading it just before I go to bed. Your words made me feel truly at peace… which is something I haven’t felt for the past week because I have been feeling sick. Thank you! You stay the yellowest of the yellow. :D

[@kbo0406]

One thing I didn't see mentioned in any video, and may not be important, but the spirits that Ranni gives you pretending to be Renna are the three lonely wolves. She said: "I was entrusted this, for thee. By Torrent's former master." However in Ranni's rise you can find in the entrance three wolves sleeping. This have some parallel with the statue in MALIKETH arena of the girl with three wolves. Regarding the theory of Melina being Ranni I would like to add some other piece of information. Both of them not only talk about Torrent but both seems to care a lot about him and thank him for it's help. Ranni saying things like: "It pleaseth me to see Torrent hale and hearty." And "I must thank Torrent too, for his part." And Melina saying: "Torrent has chosen you. Treat him with respect." And "I must tender my thanks to Torrent, too. Thank you, Torrent. Please continue to lend your aid. Till the end." And if you submit to the three fingers she will say: "Goodbye, my companion. Goodbye, Torrent." always talking like Torrent was and old friend. Ranni also imply that only three can be empyrean, Ranni, Miquela and Malenia however Melina says she was an Empyrean too. For some reason makes sense three Empyrean as a parallel with the three wolves, one for each Empyrean. As an interesting coincidence if it is the case that Melina is Ranni, the three Empyrean names start with M, like Marika.

[@slashgallagher8965]

The twin characters is something I noticed as well with Hyetta and Irina having the exact same character models and voices.

[@SynthBro]

How exactly is a statue made after Radagon's marriage to Marika when they were formed into one body evidence that he was a being split of her? Also, Empyryans have nothing to do with birth, the original text for the remembrance states: Firstly, the remembrance of Malenia is badly mistranslated, the original text says: ミケラとマレニアは、 唯一人の神の子供である Miquella and Malenia are children of a single god 故に二人は神人であるが、 その生は脆弱であり Thus, though they are Empyreans their lives are fragile 一方は永遠に幼く、一方は腐敗を宿した One was eternally young, and one carried rot.

[@MegaTadzz]

She has 4 arms… of course I’ll marry her

[@darkhobo]

Love the videos. Keep it up! Try not to take criticism too seriously. No one reasonable expects you to be correct all the time, or to have everything figured out.

[@gameakochronicles]

thank you max for this clarification :) much appreciated.

[@johncra8982]

Just for the sake of clarity, the "baleful" shadow you fight in ainsel, the red blaidd, is probably an assassin on a mission to kill Ranni. Seluvis and Iji die with the black flame on their corpse and black knife corpses all around them. Next to Ranni's rise you can find a mask that looks like blaidds head and was worn by an assassin trying to impersonate him. Someone was trying to kill ranni before she started the age of stars. It wasn't ranni herself either, since after we kill the baleful shadow, she calls us "my dear" and asks us to tell blaidd and Iji that she loves them. I feel like it was Marika that sent the black knife assassins (who are numen just like her) to chase after ranni and also put them in the evergaol guarding the entrance to miquella's haligtree as a way to forestall any threats to the golden order. As for the murder of godwyn, I believe ranni fixed the black knives to do her bidding by imprisoning their mother Alecto in an evergaol on her moonlit altar. I would like to see more lore videos investigating that conspiracy and assassination attempt as well as the role of the black knives in all of these various schemes.

[@seanchan4478]

I like how elden ring takes the concept of the Animus and anima and puts them into a physical manifestation

[@hunter_witch]

About the Marika thing, Radagon and Marika were separate at some point. If you go to the Queen's Chamber, Melina will say "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me, thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us both be shattered, mine other half." stating they were at one point not the same person, presumably after he had to return to Leyndell. I say after since Melania, Radagon and Marika's child speaks in more modern English, while Ranni, also Radagon's daughter, speaks in an older English.

[@Cathonis]

To me it seems like Rennala's rebirthing process always results in a short life. You can give a larval tear to Boc, who can later be found in Rennala's room as a human, but he's unresponsive. Come back later and he's dead. Poor dude just wanted to be beautiful. As for why the player tarnished can use multiple larval tears to rebirth themselves without issue, it's probably because you possess Rennala's great rune, the thing that can apparently perfect the rebirthing process.

[@topcat59]

I personally still believe in the concept of reflections that you brought up because To me I do see very examples in the game where we fight against varies of enemies Or find various items or people that are strikingly similar.🐱

[@fulciserrano]

I think instead of shadow or reflection, you could also use the term "emanations" in regards to multiple forms of a higher archetype.

[@ShardofWant]

Her mentor may have been a wraith caller the enemies use bells associated with spirits and have four arms and blue skin and Ranni was a red headed tall woman before putting in the doll modeled after her mentor and those inversions of blaidd are impersonators as proved by his helmet you can obtain so the fact that Rannis mentor appeared to be an entirely different species makes even more unlikely her mentor would be a reflection of her

[@alephnole7009]

I really think you need to look into the GLOAM/DUSK EYED QUEEN. From what I can tell she is the key to understanding the link between Ranni and Melina.

[@thatoneLerrydude]

Regarding Naming, it's a GRRM thing, he likes to name things as realistic as possible and in history names tended to repeat and permutate a lot. Ronald Roland etc. So that's probably why characters from the same family tend to have variants of their parent's name. Regarding Melina, I feel like the rebirth theory could actually fit with the Gloam Eyed Queen one too, since Melina could be a the queen reborn as well, only acquiring her full power at the end after you spare her thru Frenzied Flame and release Destined Death.

[@jellydamgood]

I don't believe Marika chased Godfrey away because he outlived his usefulness. The opposite in fact. From the echoes of Marika that Melina dictates to us. Marika tells Godfrey and his lads that she will divest them of grace, and when they die, she will return said grace to them. Simply put, she exiled them and chased them out of the lands between in an effort to make them stronger, strong enough to kill a God. At the end of the game, Godfrey returns after regaining his grace, and confidently states that he's going to have his audience once more, most likely to slay the Elden Beast, as Marika intended from the very beginning.

[@bahhhhumbug9804]

Amazing video! very well thought out and put together. I like the Melina is Ranni theory to but I don't think she was born from the egg with Ranni cause Melina tells us that she was born in the erdtree.

[@Catloaf]

Re: Ranni =? Melina My personal theory is that Melina was the gloam eyed queen, but died when defeated by Maleketh. However, she was brought back to life by Radagon via the Amber egg as you mentioned. I like to think that Melina, being the gloam eyed queen (the goddess of death itself) meant that death didn't work exactly the same way as it does for most, and thus retained her soul's form, even when she was reincarnated as Ranni, but then when Ranni killed her flesh, the two became separate beings, as the two sets of memories/destinies held within her two lifetimes became reaccessible, but not consolable into one identity.

[@mistermahdy]

Even the player character has a reflection with the mimic :p

[@sneekmuch]

The GEQ is an empyrean also and with the theory of Melina (because of the Flame of Frenzy ending) being the GEQ and Melina’s name in the game files being “MarikaOfDaughter” also fits rather coincidentally conveniently.

[@crozraven]

I would love to see you make an analysis video about the outer gods, also the theory that Marika & some other characters are "aliens" to the realm in the game ...

[@FigmentHF]

I think Marika and the lands between were hi-jacked by an outer god called the Elden Beast, and then Marika set in motion a convoluted, conspiratorial, multigenerational scheme to kill it. To kill a God. I posted my theory in a comment here if you’re interested

[@dizon8629]

I`ve always wondered about Torrent's former owner. Since he or she seems to be connected to both Ranni and Melina . Melina was given torrent to give the MC and Ranni was given the bell and wolf ashes to give to the MC .

[@johnsmith-xw7hv]

Am I crazy or did Miyazaki say Ranni is based on a monster that has 2 faces, the face of an old woman and the face of a young maiden? And why does Ranni talk like she has never met you before when you seemingly talk to her through the miniature doll?

[@Dragnarok1]

I have a couple of theories about melina and ranni. Melina and ranni may be the same person, so to speak, but both have different views on their "mother". Where ranni despised marika, melina holds great reverence for her. The other theory as to how they came to be, though this is mostly borrowed from Kingdom Hearts (a series I highly recommend to you Max for analysis). Basically when a being like ranni dies, whether by accident or on purpose is still up for debate, two beings a born. While ranni's soul remains she ends up with new body. However while ranni's body may have "died" a new body would be formed and becomes melina. After all you can't find kindling to burn the erdtree from a soul. Dark souls has already done that. And what unfortunately better way to find kindling than to find or offer a body to burn. I type this out of sadness due to how attached a became to Melina. I hope it's something that can contribute to the lore of elden ring.

[@PhilFromTheAbyss]

I have to say, your sick voice sounds really cool :D

[@funwithfrank7522]

Get well soon my man

[@capsuleC0RP5E]

Also worth noting that the Black Knife Assassins were all Numen, which is also what Marika was. If the Black Knife Assassins are also the “scions from the Eternal City,” that would infer that the Numen are also the Nox.

[@NotAyoutubeBot]

Maybe I'm imagined it, but every lore video about the Blackknife Assassins seems to assume they're from either Nokron or Nokstella. But people seems to forget that there's a THIRD Eternal City, the one that is right below the Erdtree, in the Deeproots Depth. Incidentally, this is also where you'll find the highest concentration of Numen Runes. And the Blackknife Assassins are in fact, Numen. If you think about it, from where would be easier to infiltrate Leyndell and kill Godwyn? All the way from Caelid and Liurnia or, right below the Capital? Actually there's even a portal at Fia's location that went straight into Leyndell. The interesting part is: Instead of Nox Monk, Nox Maiden, and mimic, the Deeproots Depth is crawling with Leyndell's forces. We have the Tree Avatar, Gargoyle Turrets, and a full on Crucible Knight. Either the Capital forces descended into the depth and obliterated the third city after Godwyn's death OR, the Third Eternal City was in cahoots with someone from the Capital. Maybe Ranni, the evidences certainly pointed to her, but idk, the way she worded her confession sounded really weird. She admitted to every single thing except for killing Godwyn. More importantly the Blackknife in the game seemed to be out for he blood. The ringleader was even imprisoned in a Carian controlled land. Why? I actually have a couple of other suspects for the night of assassination: Marika, the things that kinda pointed me to her are: the Black Knife Armor desc reads: "The assassins that carried out the deeds of the Night of the Black Knives were all women, and rumored to be Numen who had close ties with Marika herself." There's also the connection of Melina to Marika and the weird connection of Melina to the Black Knives (although Melina can just be as easily connected to Ranni). Third, there's this quote from Marika in the Capital Outskirt: "Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..." That sounds ominous as shit, the woman knew something was about to go down. But then again, the narrative did painted her as being shocked and genuinely grieving for Godwyn's death. So it couldn't be her who order the killing of her own son. Unless, it was her but not really her, meaning: Radagon. Although that seems to be a bit of a reach. Rykard, the Voldemort wannabe was rewarded a trace of the fragment of death that Ranni stole from Maliketh, so he was in on some part of it. Given his personality, it wouldn't be hard to imagine the man plotted the death of his brother. Although, the evidences for this is a lot fewer than the above two suspects. Miquella. He was a victim when we saw him, but it was implied that the dude was very, very smart, and he was not above some manipulations (the Miquella's Branch desc). The thing that pointed me to him was the locations of most of the Black Knife Assassins make some senses (Leyndell, Black Knife Catacombs, Carian related grounds). However, out of nowhere, in Ordina Liturgical Town, guarding, or being trapped at the entrance to the Haligtree were not one, not two but THREE Black Knife Assassins (2 still alive and one who abandoned her armor for us to pick up). What's the deal with that? Well that was a long comment, but just some thoughts I would like to share. Maybe I should just use Orcam Razor and conclude that Ranni was not a full saint and wasn't above some kinslaying.

[@bearded_raven4526]

I wonder if Renna, the gloam eyed queen?, split into Ranni and Melina. One for the Sun, or the crucible, returning to oneness in flame; yet she comes to hunt you if you do this. While the Moon is embracing freewill and self-determination. Egalitarianism? Also, in Western Alchemist spheres the Philosophers Stone/Elixir of Life is usually depicted as Mercury or Quick Silver. (In the Eastern spheres it is usually depicted as Cinnabar, and Red the last step.) Seems to fit perfecting into your theory with the moon symbol, but a little step farther? And would then make perfect sense why the Albinaurics are Man made life, and also can be blobs or "tears." Solid and Liquid at the same time. Also feeding into the Gnostic sphere of influence: Life creating life. Imperfect life creating life, and so on. I hope its an evolving sense of life, but I'm not sure it can be ranked. But this Theory would be: Greater Will, Elden beast?>Elden Beast? Serosh? Dragons? (Demiurge) > Giants/Gods? > Humans > Albnaurics Also what are the Two Fingers? Ranni says there are multiple choosing their own Hero and hers were one of many? At first it felt like a "Hand of God" thing, but now I wonder if they are hands from a race of giants that went extinct? Also the symbolism of the two weaker fingers being the gentle "holy" fingers while the thumb index and middle are the evil ones? is interesting. And that Holy is yellow light while chaos fire is specifically described as "Yellow fire." Then while fighting the Elden Beast it uses a Holy looking Fire that is Bright yellow. Makes me think of the theme, "Two sides of the same coin." or "on the other hand." Being the Full Hand of the Greater Will and how characters will have a Normal and a Shadow side.

[@aidanbagshaw3411]

The validity of the description stating that malenia and miquella are empyreans BECAUSE they were born of two gods has been thrown into question somewhat by a more competent translation of the Japanese writing which states that they were both CURSED because of their two god birth, and the fact that they are both empyreans is simply an identifying statement. This means that empyreans do not need to be born of two gods, and renala may well be ranni's mother

[@aidanbagshaw3411]

As a side note, marika was also an empyrean before she ascended to godhood, and she was born a regular mortal to the numen race, no godly parentage to speak of. It seems like empyrean is simply a title given by the greater will to those it considers worthy of replacing its current god

[@Sleeper_6875]

Hello! There is a small possibility that Radagon was not a god when he had Rykard and Radahn, but just a great champion. It is confirmed by melina after the morgott fight if you return to the erdtree sanctuary site of grace that Marika and Radagon were once seperate and that he was not yet a god and was not yet her. Additionally, according to godrick’s great rune description, godfrey was actually a demigod despite being a mortal (this is possibly a translation error as it says “Godfrey and his golden lineage”, it could easily be “Godfrey’s golden lineage”). So yeah that’s all some interesting stuff and Marika and Radagon were once separate beings, but it’s also possible they were already one before radahn and Rykard

[@lanceelopezz223]

*murdered Godwyn Precision use of words acknowledges the difference between (1) murder, and (2) simply killing.

[@chrisistocool1]

That is confirmed to be rannis body. She stole destined death (Melina in my personal theory) and she used the rune to make the black knives that she both killed herself and godwyn with them so the rune of death is both on her body and his. Ranni also tells you that she won't let you kill her mother during the boss fight vs her mother. My theory is that Melina is the result of removing destined death from Marika's control leaving Melina without memory and form so when you first meet her she travels with you to the city to regain her form and strength from being separated from Marika. When you choose the frenzied flame path you see Melina say she will bring death to you and open her eye. I think that everytime queen Marika removed a elden ring piece from herself it took a physical form like radagon or Melina. When radagon rejoined Marika the elden ring was remade but without deaths piece. After we kill Marika and the elden beast we take the ring into ourselves and we guide the world that's why the falling leaves tell a different story for each thing we add to the ring because it combined it inside us as the elden Lord/God of the lands between. Please use this in one of your videos max.

[@Doomseer]

I'm having such a blast rping as a former church assassin who wants to completely replace the golden order due to the cruel abandonment he suffered when the grace of gold left him despite living his entire life as an assassin in service to the two fingers and the golden lineage. However even worse he is awakened from the peaceful slumber of death after taking his own life countless years past only to find that not only was he abandoned but now is being press ganged into action in order to clean up the mess left behind by queen Marika and reestablish the very order he once killed to maintain..

[@stefansago]

The background music reminds me of a dream I had.

[@KT-mp2jf]

I think D and Godwyn may have more to do with why Ranni is the way she is..D has one soul and two bodies; his armor depicting the two. One in gold, one in silver. Perhaps something regarding their situation could illuminate why Ranni is the way she is.. Or perhaps it could explain Melina and Ranni.. Perhaps they were two souls in one body.

[@i_rika1]

nice video, we also know that Ranni and Rykard were allies from the blasphemous claw

[@gabrielandrade9237]

Ranni offers the happiest ending to a videogame history, is the conclusion to the kaguya mitos, but instead of her going to the moon and leave her beloved behind, both of them go to the stars together for their happy ever after

[@jvaralves]

Margit is not a copy of margott, it is literally margott in "disguise". We fight the same guy 3 times, thats it. Also I'm 99.9% sure Ranni is Rennala's daughter. The timeline doesnt add up otherwise. There is 0 reason to believe that Marika and Radagon "were getting it on" before Godfrey's exile, and Ranni had to be born during the time of Radagon's and Rennala's union. Born of a single God will guarantee an Empyrian, but an Empyrian doesn't have to be born of a single god.

[@JudyQ411]

I too think Melina and Ranni are inherently linked. Maybe they were two souls in 1 body? Could explain the same thing with Marika/Radagon and their direct offspring. Malenia inheriting Radagons red hair, and Miquella inheriting Marika's golden hair. Could also explain why Melina refers to her mother as Marika, but Ranni's mother is Rennala. Since Radagon and Marika are the same, technically Marika is Ranni's mother too.

[@popkhorne5372]

Don't forget that ranni had a seat in Marika's throne room. She may have been immediately unhappy about her father leaving her mother, but she probably could see both her parents just fine and agreed to take in a position of lieutenant for Marika, like all the demi gods. Still, her later actions speak for themselves in terms of her loyalty to marika.

[@MrTheLukesnyder]

some1 on reddit removed all of the other shard bearers great runes from the complete elden ring to see what rannis would look like and then found it on the moon sir gideon has a voice line saying that nobody knows where ranni casted her great rune away too and that she put it out of every1s reach

[@saintsfearful]

They don't say that the only way to make an empyrean is by being born of a single god, just that that's one way. In fact the single god part is clearly stated to have created flawed empyreans. The gloam eyed queen is confirmed to be an empyrean and there's no indication that Marika/Radagan had any other children than Melinia and Miquella. I think that emypreans are always born as twins and I have a theory that Melina is the gloam eyed queen and Ranni's twin sister. It also never confirms that Renna is the ice witch, only that you find the ice witch armor in Renna's rise. I think MELINA is Renna and she had her memories removed at the foot of the Erd Tree by Marika in punishment for rebelling against the Greater Will. She then becomes a messenger for Marika. I think this was the event that made Ranni and Rykard lose it and plan their theft of the rune of death.

[@zazikikomo7796]

I actually don't think that the Baleful Shadow is necessarily a distinct entity from Blaidd himself. He has the red glow of an invading finger/phantom. Dung Eater has a corporeal form, yet communicates with and attacks you with his red phantom. There seems to be a slight disconnect between his corporeal and incorporeal consciousness, for example he doesn't really recognize you when you first come to the sewers even though it was his phantom who sent you. Similarly, Millicent invades you in Aeonia but doesn't seem to acknowledge it when you meet her at the church. After you kill the Baleful Shadow, Blaidd goes bonkers and becomes aggressive. I think there's a connection here, especially since Ranni seemed to try to disappear after you give her the knife, and you never encounter Blaidd at Nokron (he goes to kill Seluvis instead.) I think perhaps that the Baleful Shadow is Blaidd's phantom, because Blaidd has turned against Ranni, or rather has been forced to by the Two Fingers. We know that the "Baleful Shadows" are the Two Fingers assassins, but this particular "Baleful Shadow" looks exactly like Blaidd, not to mention Blaidd's own relationship with the Two Fingers. Is it all that strange to imagine that it was him who you fought in Nokstella? If it's fair to say Godefroy is Godrick, it's even more fair to say that the Baleful Shadow is Blaidd. It makes her final words after that fight somewhat more bittersweet.

[@chandler1473]

Maybe Ranni is simply using Melina as a failsafe to prevent you from becoming the Lord of Chaos. Since it isn't neccesary to Ranni for you to become her consort because she has Blaidd, she isn't in a hurry to rule the Lands Between. However, if you choose to become the Lord of Chaos you would be preventing Ranni's goal entirely.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

At 7:20 you're a bit off with your timeline. Radagon wasn't married to Marika *during* the time she was married to Godfrey, but afterwards. There's a distinct timeline there with Godfrey being Marika's first consort and Radagon the second consort after Godfrey was cast out of the Lands Between to wander the world outside as the first tarnished. What's really interesting to me though is that during Marika's marriage with Godfrey may be the time when Radagon perhaps came into existence and married Rennala. Apparently the combined might of the Rayan Lucarian Academy and the Carian royal family was enough to stop the armies of Leyndell and Queen Marika in two separate wars (both war memorials and Muriel talk about this), so the notion that marrying Rennala to absorb Liurnia into Marika's kingdom would make sense: conquering a region through diplomacy rather than pure conquest. As for the Melina/Ranni connection . . . maybe. There's definitely some good evidence for it, and Melina may be an aspect of Ranni like Radagon is an aspect of Marika. However if that's the case, then Renna is definitely just an assumed name to travel under like Margit is for Morgott. Using assumed named when traveling by the way, is a very old tradition and is based on superstitions and mythical concepts of knowing someone's true name; that knowing someone's true name gives you power over them, so it's safer to give a false name when outside of a circle of trust. However I tend to think Melina is more likely to be an aspect of Marika herself. Unlike Ranni, who seems to have been born outside of it, Melina says she was born *in* the Erdtree and refers to Marika as her mother while also knowing what her purpose in life is - to burn the erdtree as kindling. It seems really likely to me that Melina was created from Marika directly as a sort of last ditch attempt to free at least some portion of herself from this imprisonment. To act outside her prison, even if in only a spiritual form. In fact, there's some possibility that we've got it all the way around and that Melina isn't an aspect of Ranni, but Ranni is an aspect of Melina. All of the other children of the gods in this game seem to come in pairs, perhaps all as twins. Rykard and Radahn, Melenia and Miquella, Mohg and Morgott (perhaps even Godrick and Godefroy). The only non-paired children seem to Godwyn and Ranni, and potentially, it might be the case that Ranni's twin is Melina or that Melina was the actual twin of Godwyn and Ranni was an aspect created of Melina that killed the body of Melina to free herself from this state . . . sort of like an alternate personality that took over. Perhaps this is also why Godwyn also had to die on the night of the Black Knives, since if Melina was a twin of Godwyn, then maybe both twins needed to die at the same time for it all to work. In the end, it's all speculation. All I know is that Ranni's whole deal seems a lot more sinister to me than it first appears, and while her ending isn't necessary an "evil" ending (that's pretty obviously the Lord of Madness ending) she's definitely tied to a lot of dark acts to in order to ascend to power.

[@nowhere18]

I think Melina has a connect to the gloom eyed queen and godskin apostles because the mark on her face is that of a crow feet and the frenzied flame she talk ls about destined death which is connect to gloom eyed queen it would be interesting topics in a future video I hope

[@WheatDos]

Since Melina only mentions her mother and not her father (neither Radagon or Godfrey) i'd say Radagon abandoned her (and Ranni). Also Melina may not have mentioned Ranni for the same reason some NPCs and bosses don't mention her: She wasn't their main concern at the time.

[@aparker91j]

I think the connection between Ranni and Melina is more straightforward than most of the theories about them: Ranni is the daughter of Radagon. Melina is the daughter of Marika. She pretty strongly implies this to be the case in a lot of her dialogue, and she never mentions a father. They look the same because they both only have one parent, who is the same person.

[@MadalynneChloe]

Why is your catch phrase "stay yellow"?

[@nickb.759]

All Gods seem to have a reflection or Copy. Morgot has Morgit. Mogh has himself at the Palace and another underground. Godrick has Godfroy at the evergaol. Even Godwyn has two corpses, one at the dark roots and another at stormveil. So Melina could be Ranni's reflection since we never saw her reflection and its the only God without one.

[@MegatronDconZ]

This idea that ranni is some scorned step-child lashing out at marika is pretty much dead at this point considering all the connections we have to marika being involved in the whole plot to overthrow the greater will. As far as the reflections thing goes, we kind of know thats not true, the fake bliadd we fight is wearing armor designed to look like him, we find bliadd shortly after at ranni;s tower having just killed several more assassins sent to kill her by the two fingers... godfroy is the original grafting god, godrick is a LONG distant relation to marika / golden lineage, its why they all see him as a weak little frail man. hence why godfroy was locked in a ever goal to begin with...

[@barbrasosi]

note that the larval tear looking like a kidney and Rennala's name. Renalla is latin for rebirth and the word has the same root for renal or latin for kidney.

[@abogmus8904]

Also, what i wonder: if every empyrian has their ownshadow, who are the shadows of Malenia and Miquella?

[@maxderrat]

Good question!

[@Eladelia]

I bet Cleanrot Knight Finlay would LOVE to know where the heck Malenia's shadow-protector was when she was single-handedly carrying Malenia all the way from Caelid back to the Haligtree...

[@darkqueenfenrisulfr]

Ranni tells you she was given Blaidd when she was declared as a candidate, if the other 2 dont have shadows means they were never truly considered candidates

[@thatoneLerrydude]

@@darkqueenfenrisulfr Yeah, the Outer God of Rot meddling with Malenia probably made her unsuitable to be an Empyrean, and Miquella cursed with infinite youth probably wasn't as well.

[@AscendantStoic]

I find a bit strange that you mentioned "reflections" and "shadows" and never bought up D and his brother, and how they are two bodies with one soul and everything about the character is about how they are entwined together like the silver and gold in D's armor and weapon which have a very distinct Gold and Silver motif. Gold which usually represents the sun and day, and silver which as you said represents the moon and night, we sadly don't know too much about D and why the two brothers were born with such a weird condition (and were shunned for it until the Golden Order adopted them).

[@maxderrat]

It IS strange that I didn't bring them up. Damn it. xD See, this is what I meant when I said "I'm almost definitely going to miss something".

[@DepartedHunter]

As much as I like the theory that Ranni is Melina. The issue I have is all the kids in the Rennala fight don’t have red hair. If they’re attempts at rebirthing Ranni shouldn’t their hair be red?

[@maxderrat]

True... but maybe the fact that their hair isn't red is representative of the fact that they are failed Rannis.

[@alephnole7009]

Based off the description of the wolf mask, the dialogue of the baleful shadow apon defeat, and it's red blade, it's most likely a black knife assassin disguised as Blaidd. Iji also states that he was wrong and Blaidd was in fact able to fight off the greater wills influence, he only attacks you outside Ranni's rise after going berserk from fighting off all the black knife assassin's.

[@ebayaccount675]

The 2 fingers & 3 fingers out together make a full 5 finger3d hand.

[@ADS4TVVegasPahrump]

I wonder if the gloam eyed queen (renna) tricked ranni into the whole soul swap thing so she could take the body of ranni/melina

[@celsoaparecido5227]

Max, watch Jin-Roh (1999). I'm sure you gonna thank me later after you watch this masterpiece.

[@barbrasosi]

from what we know now ranni cannot be Melina cause Melina is confirmed to be Marika's daughter. it would seem conflicting if she was both Marika's and Rennala's. then again Radagon is Marika so what do I know? 😅 Another one that would disprove that theory is that Melina is the gloam eyed queen, which puts Melina off the timeline from Ranni. since the marriage of Radagon is a rather recent event.

[@TurtleMarchingKing]

Melina sacrifices herself though, then immediately after you summon ranni for the ending, I don't think she can be ranni.

[@DOFUSIANO2]

Concerning the servants of Ranni, there is something I don't understand. At the end of Ranni's quest, closure is brought to Iji. He fights to the death with some black knife assassins, killing a few of them in the process. But as explained, the black knife assassins are under Ranni's orders. Why would the servants of Ranni, Iji on one hand and the black knife assassins on the other hand would kill each other ? Or why would the black knife assassins would want to kill Iji ? Because it is very likely that it is them who attack Iji in the first place.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

The black knifes don't work for ranni they where trying to kill her that's why they attacked bliaff and iji

[@DOFUSIANO2]

@@thatoneblackdude3333 I disagree. The black knife assassins were sent by Ranni to kill Godwyn. At this moment they were on the same side, but perhaps it changed overtime

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@@DOFUSIANO2 it waa never said she sent them just that she mass the knives thats it the assassins work for the golden order not ranni that's why they attacked her group because she was going against the order .

[@jallerxzl1966]

I want to share a theory made by an hispanic _loremaster_ known as Zanoth, regarding the relationship between Melina and Ranni. So we know Ranni is an Empyrean. For now, people seems to be acknowledging that the only requirement for this is to be born only from a god, and thus, they will replace Marika. I disagree with that notion, and this theory it's most correlated with what I think an Empyrean is. While the whole concept is still unknown, we know three things of them: 1) Needs to have godly lineage, meaning they have to be born from a god. 2) They need to have a shadow, which is the Wolf that acts like their "brothers." 3) (maybe the most ignored), they *need* to be twins. I want to highlight the third requirement, because even if, with more analysis, is one of the more consistent one, it needs to be explained. So what exactly means to be a twin? Well, here is when the connections and theory starts: In Elden Ring, there are 3 ideas/things coexisting in the world: body, soul, and spirit. Body and soul are well known for now, but spirit seems to be the relationship between one person and other. So, to be a twin, two characters needs to share the same spirit. This is something that we can see around the game. What about Marika, for example? Why is she an Empyrean? Well, because she mets all the requirements to be one: has godly lineage, has a shadow, _and_ has a _twin._ Who is the twin? Exactly: *Radagon.* And it makes more sense if you start to Connect the pieces. While Marika and Radagon has "different" bodies, they share the same spirit, which is the reason of them being able to share the same physical vessel, because their spirits are connected, aka, they are twins. This also happens with Malenia and Miquella. They are twins, and due to sharing the same spirit, they suffered the same curse (actually, they are the vessels for an Outer God of Rot). But why all of this matters with Melina and Ranni? Well... Ranni and Melina aren't the direct daughters of Rennala, but instead, they were born from Radagon. While Ranni was able to born, Melina didn't achieve this, and however, she was holding a _Great Rune._ What I'm saying here is that Melina *is* the Unborn, the one Rennala's is trying to reincarnate so desesperately after Radagon's abandonment. But why she wasn't able to born? Well, I don't remember so much this part of the theory, but I think it was because of Ranni killing her body and releasing herself from being an Empyrean, and so, Melina, due to sharing the spirit, wasn't able to born due to the lack of a physical body because of Ranni destroying her own. That's why she says she was "born" bodyless, and why she's an spirit in first place. This + the connections between Melina and Ranni that we know points out to Melina and Ranni being twins, and thus, sharing the same spirit. This also explains why in the Lord of Frenzied Flame Ending Melina doesn't have one eye glowing as the other, because one part of herself (Ranni) ripped her connection with she. Oh yeah, I think they also are related to the Dusk/Glown-Eyed Queen (I don't remember her name tbh, but I'm talking about the Godskins' queen), but I think that's another matter. And that's all. I want to highlight again that I'm just sharing this theory, and the one who proposed this in first place was a youtuber known as Zanoth. If you speak spanish (or maybe not) and are interested in the Soulsborne series, follow him 🤌🤌. PS: Talk about the Primeval Current plz.

[@paspetit]

Nothing states empyreans only occur from the union of both parents being gods. Marika wasn't always a god. She was of Numen descent. Yet she was empyrean. I think its a title bestowed upon certain individuals by their two fingers. I don't believe Radagon and Marika were always one. I believe they were originally two seperate individuals and merged after Radagon left Marika. I believe Radagon was part giant. Hence his hair being "a curse of of their kind"

[@Someguywithalotoftism]

I feel like the commonalities and shadows are more of a theme and foreshadowing than anything literal. Duality and disparity has always played a part in from soft games. The baleful shadow is more of a reflection on blaidds feelings conflictinf with one another. Ranni killed her alter self to get rid of the past, fearful of becoming just another husk like Marika so she destroys herself. I think it's more thematic than literal

[@Summers8Mike]

I like the video, but Radagon isn't a god according to Marika, while Empyrans are mere people chosen by the Greater will. It's more like a virtue thing than a bloodline thing unlike most english speaking people thought, but the translation of the game is pretty scuffed, while apparently there were lots of cut content that were meant to make these stuff a bit more clear, hope FS can finish these in coming updates and patch them in.

[@jonnymario771]

I definately agree that Ranni could still be Marikas daughter. Empyrean + her rune doesnt match Radahn and Rykards patterns, instead it fits with Malenia and probably also Miquella.