Elden Ring - They don't understand

[@ZullietheWitch]

I was uncertain if the dialogue for the children was still in the files, so I consulted with Sekiro Dubi, who has been working on a big archival process for all the dialogue files. Conveniently, it not only still existed, it was all even loaded in Raya Lucaria by default, so I was able to just swap some IDs around with Cheat Engine and record it ingame. According to Sekiro Dubi, the way the audio was loaded is particularly strange though, there's a special "quest file" that was used, bypassing the usual method for loading the audio for NPC dialogue. We're not sure why it's loaded that way, so it's a neat thing to have stumbled onto. Check out Sekiro Dubi's channel here: kzbin.info Here's the full list of their unused lines, for ease of reading: Who's that? Who could it be? A new child, Mother's newborn. A new friend. A new playmate for us. Just watch, he'll be born again. Just watch, she'll be born again. Then Mother will hold him tight. Then Mother will hold her tight. He'll be so warm, warm and cosy. She'll be so warm, warm and cosy. That'd be nice, so very nice. If we're turned to stone, will we be born again? Will Mother hold us again? Will we? Will she? That hurts. Please, stop that. Did he just die? And him, too? Is he not a friend? I can't tell… Is she not a friend? I can't tell… Maybe he's something else? Maybe she's something else? Can we still be friends, if we try? Yes, we can be friends, I'm sure. He'll understand, if we just explain. She'll understand, if we just explain. Catch! There! Squish him! Squish her! Off you go! Smoosh him! Smoosh her!

[@Joyful_Traitor]

Honestly that unused dialogue would have probably unnerved me too I have seen videos of people attacking Miriel and I refuse to hit him just to see it for myself, so hitting the childlike scholars would definitely make me hesitant to fight them

[@half_chub]

the turning to stone part implies they understand and know they can become graven schools and graven masses. utterly terrifying

[@jonlava173]

Well Done, O Well Done!

[@SekiroDubi]

Thanks for the shout! Interesting research this was. Hopefully one day we'll understand if this was some sort of alternate quest, or something else.

[@victormiller1420]

Most likely reason is sound clutter they likely didn't want to overload your ears while trying to identify the channeler considering that they sometimes would be behind bookcases or cover.

[@PierceArner]

In the animated _Peter Pan_ the Mermaids say, _"We were only trying to drown her."_ when Peter scolds them for attacking Wendy, because fairy folk are immortal and don't really grasp those concepts of what death means. That naïve, child-like attitude towards death is something old folklore about fairies used to convey a lot, so it's interesting that it was a lot more overt in earlier plans for that encounter with Rennala's little sweetings. It was likely both difficult to balance that dialogue with the pacing of combat events, but also most of the time you get dialogue like that is when you're attacking an NPC you're not meant to fight. It likely ended up being removed to avoid making confusion for feedback on the player's actions, and because of implementation difficultly in making it clear. Really cool to see the concept behind what's happening even though the final in-game execution was altered.

[@jbark678]

Good catch, haven't thought about Peter Pan for a while.

[@trevorweisberg8470]

It's why I love the fey, they're mindset is so alien they don't even exist on the same morality scale.

[@PierceArner]

@Crab in A Top Hat This is a good clarification because that's why their particular type of immortality makes it so difficult for them to understand death as something permanent and consequential. It's vastly different from the perspective of immortality that god have, the conditional immortality of vampires, or the agelessness of fantasy elves. To add to that, the smaller fae don't have the ability to grasp things the same way humans do. Again, to mention Peter Pan, Tinkerbell changes colours because the little fairies can only experience one emotion at a time which is why they're impulsive in a child-like way. Those both add to how Rennala's sweetings becoming gravestones makes it EASIER for them to be born anew, and their short, imperfect lives, and limited memories aren't a source of fear for them even if objectively they have a somewhat terrifying cycle of Rebirth & Redeath that they're forever locked into.

[@arbsan8366]

Wow I haven’t thought of it this way before!

[@BeefMeisterSupreme]

@@PierceArner And do You know what I've noticed those elves, gods and vampires have in common regarding their forms of immortality? most of them are still terrified of dying!

[@Shroomluck]

I think it be creepier if you respawned in Rennalas boss room in their garb when you died.

[@kylestanley7843]

If you somehow had the rune of rebirth before the fight, that'd be very feasible.

[@khajiitimanus7432]

Maybe someone can make a mod adding a grab attack to phase 1 Rennala where she rebirths the player - instantly killing them, removing 1 level, and respawning them with a juvenile scholar robe. It stops when they're back at their class's starting level. The explanation for why they're not a full juvenile scholar being that they're a Tarnished guided by grace, and thus barely protected by Marika's influence.

[@Birb56]

@@khajiitimanus7432removing one level would be way too busted, imagine fighting her at a low level and all of a sudden you literally can’t even use your weapon anymore

[@khajiitimanus7432]

@@Birb56 Yes, but they did it before, in a previous game.

[@Totallynotkyubey]

@@khajiitimanus7432 Was it demon's souls or even king's field? In any case I bet they realized that such attacks are only a massive gut punch for new players, nobody falls for it multiple times and it could cause soft locks, so it wasn't revisited.

[@sirsmaffles749]

Just when you'd think that these creepy children couldn't get creepier I find this. Thanks Zullie, I will now rather be reborn as a grub

[@sabotower1792]

Reject humanity, return to grüb

[@Voice_of_p]

We both know: you dont want that.

[@BossReo]

Sounds like something out of a Dream...

[@sylomcz1588]

Would rather return back to MONKEY!!!

[@KATinBLACK]

You’d rather be reborn as a Revenant? What a sicko

[@hateful8bit]

Miyazaki: I want to kill kids but how do we do that without killing kids. Martin: Great Rune of the Unborn?

[@Cassius609]

*hides the dead baby model attached to Oceiros* There we go, perfectly safe now.

[@hateful8bit]

@@Cassius609 I was thinking the Exact. Same. Thing. His censorship is legendary.

[@Razhork]

I agree with the latter option that it was removed due to phase 1's gimmick being audio cue and having them speak would potentially make it more frustrating/harder to rely on audio cues. I do wish it could've stayed one way or another. It's really eerie how childlike and nonchalant they are about dying.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

I agree. The singing would've been distinct, and probably just made a bit louder. We know Fromsoft isn't adverse to making shit creepy or disturbing.

[@alastor8091]

They should've brought the Sweetings back after the fight when the area is peaceful and had them wander around and speak.

[@MrFRNTIK]

I was thinking it would make for a cutscene.

[@LashknifeTalon]

Another possibility is that they couldn't get the sweetings to not all talk over each other, resulting in a chaotic cacophany of their attack/damaged voice stabs making it just more noisy than creepy. Also, even if they had all been talking it would still be possible to visually find the singer; I actually had trouble telling which direction the singing was coming from so I just patrolled around the arena looking for them visually, and I cleared this fight just fine.

[@benadrylcumbersplatch6448]

Y'all mean to tell me I'm supposed to rely on audio cues and not run around frantically looking for the right child to murder!?

[@joaquintettamanti5314]

"Can we still be friends if we try? Yes, we can be friends, I'm sure. He'll understand if we just explain" Oh my god 😢😢😢 this actually makes me feel bad for them

[@oldcowbb]

yes if they stop throwing the damn books

[@sixbases6793]

@@oldcowbb oh come on, they are not that annoying, they're cute

[@yurilopes420]

@@sixbases6793 for real, the only time where books are an issue is when you try to dodge one and queen foots throws a whole fucking library at you plus the chandelier

[@Dr.HooWho]

​@@oldcowbb gotta get knowledge though

[@firstya9994]

@@sixbases6793 idk if i still wanted to be friends with them after they throw a fckng chandelier at me

[@disappointingperson9162]

This reminds of the fairy children from berserk. Essentially, a child who left her village became a demon and later "liberated" the children from small villages in the area and turned them into fairies. At first they seem fairly innocent, but whenever they "play war" they grab weapons and start killing each other, because once they transform they no longer understand what death is.

[@dunewalker3006]

came to say that

[@dadevi]

Yet another reason I'm happy I never read Beserk. That shit is too dark for me.

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@dadevi you miss the glorious slaughter of demon. Also Guts journey is very interesting. Rarely you see a character change so much and in such a well made fashion.

[@OwObotJazz]

They do worse things than play war

[@alrightalright4585]

Berserk is one of, if not, the biggest inspiration for FromSoft games. Miyazaki is a huge fan, so it makes sense for a lot of things to be mirrored from that manga. I really need to get on seriously reading it, only like 10 chapters in so far.

[@xkidgey]

Elden Ring certainly has recurring themes around imperfect replication. Empyreans born from single parent processes that end up with curses, artificially created albinaurics with bad legs, Rennala's children being flawed and tragically short lived, Omens existing, etc. Kinda like maybe the Erdtree's order is super duper flawed and taking the rune of death out is a Gwyn-level sin that's just ruined the entire world

[@dadevi]

I think the message is that the Gods in all of From Soft's titles are cursed by going against the course of nature in some way. The Gods try to interrupt the natural cycle of their worlds and end up destroying themselves in the process. They're like puppets pretending to be puppetmasters, but they get their strings cut in the end all the same.

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@dadevi more like puppetts tumbling in their own strings.

[@WereScrib]

@@dadevi Excuse me, you left out the benevolent force that is the Frenzied Flame. If time and existence itself is undone, there is no flawed order! \o/ True heroes undo time itself.

[@nightscout9979]

Tons of the curses and maladies are unrelated to the Golden Order. Most things are messed up in Elden Ring, tying into recurring From Software themes of cruel powers that be and the constant threat of degenerating.

[@marhawkman303]

@@nightscout9979 yeah, one of my readings of the lore of Elden ring is that it's more like the "Lands Between" are part of a battle between eldritch beings we never even see in-game. the Golden Order is just one of them.

[@genericgorilla]

It's probably because the renalla battle is already pretty busy soundwise, it'd probably sound really terrible if every scholar was talking each time they throw a book at you

[@joshuawiener5003]

That honestly sounds like the case. FromSoft is not one to pull punches on horrific lore and imagery. For example, there is the omen bairn, which depicts an omen baby with all their horns removed in a grotesque fashion. Having the scholars whisper amongst themselves would probably create too much chaos and make it harder to locate the channeling scholar. Though honestly, the first phase is kinda too easy and I think maybe that would have been something good to add some difficulty. Regardless, it is of no consequence.

[@Jetstreamsamsbiggestglazer]

@@joshuawiener5003 also Dung eater ripping the spine out of a giant and then using it as a sword

[@SolaScientia]

@@joshuawiener5003 The only gruesome thing that I know they cut from a game was in the fight against Oceiros in Dark Souls 3. He was meant to be holding his child, Ocelotte, and he still cradles something invisible with one arm for about half the fight. Then there is some motion and audio that's basically him consuming the child (the baby cries stop after that point, very tellingly). I think it was determined to be a bit too much even for them. Honestly, both phases were a bit too easy. Yeah, it took me 4 or 5 attempts, but that's still less than some other bosses and even regular enemies. Phase 1 was definitely way too easy, especially once I stopped summoning wolves for it and chased down the gold kids myself. Phase 2 was super easy once I summoned the wolves and then just stayed close to her the whole time since she had no poise at all. I hate fighting mages in FromSoft games, so I'm not complaining much about how easy it ended up being.

[@Dyneamaeus]

Oh certainly, I mean, that busyness is probably why only the singing scholar throws books as well. Depending on how the camera feels, the sound cues for a chandelier drop or tomb-missile are sometimes the only warning you'll get before they nuke you.

[@SolaScientia]

@@Dyneamaeus There was a bit of a visual cue for the chandelier drop as well, but in running around hunting down the glowing kids it's easy to miss that as well. Phase 1 is so busy in general that the added voices would have made it worse. Any time I had to go near the chandeliers I was running or rolling as fast as possible and made sure not to linger under them. It was the books and the globes getting yeeted at me that I found the most annoying.

[@Morgannin]

I like how often Zullie and other creators show off a From Software concept that "was almost a lot worse/more horrible/creepier" etc. Like they always seem to come up with horrifying ideas, start to implement them, then rein themselves in. Kinda wish they'd commit to it for once.

[@VelvetVexations]

We nearly got Oceiros doing the "puny God" Avengers routine with an infant. Have to imagine there's a universe out there where they left that in and it perhaps became the new GTA in terms of controversy, or maybe video game violence of all kind has simply lost it's shock three games into modern Mortal Kombat.

[@Crow_Mauler_]

Well, they certainly committed with bloodborne.

[@vergulyanets]

I listened to that cut audio with Oceiros, really scary stuff.

[@dontbother9683]

They do commit to it, you just don't know it beacuse they actually did it

[@dadevi]

When it comes to children, the disabled, or child-like characters in video games, creators have learned to tow the line or risk being banned in certain countries. Australia, the UK and the US are especially tough on stuff like that, and it's not worth it to make a several different versions of the same boss battles for different gaming markets.

[@jimstoesz3878]

When I fought Rennala I was too busy trying not to die to really notice how deeply disturbing her first phase is... and honestly I'm very glad that I was able to avoid this emotional burden.

[@loonylunaticmaxhammer3401]

gay

[@pffpffovich2398]

Her first phase is the easiest thing there is wdym

[@cromulom2223]

How tf you had to try to avoid dying in rennala

[@-huracan-8444]

gay

[@natpat4094]

the whole story is already an emotional burden tho 💀 and the first phase is easy 😭

[@leyrua]

It occurs to me that if the Tarnished dies in this fight, it would actually make this one of the few fights that (outside of game mechanics) would *permanently* end their journey. It doesn't matter if you can't be killed permanently if you've been reborn imperfectly and lost all of your memories.

[@TheDoomsdayzoner]

Thankfully being tarnished means "no rebirth", apparently.

[@vergulyanets]

Would be cool to be summoned by Renala as a aggressive defender like in the Church in DS3 DLC Ringed City or DS2 Mirror Knight

[@FirstKingPotato]

@@TheDoomsdayzoner You probably can be, even as a Tarnished. The great rune of the unborn perfects rebirth, implying that you could be reborn imperfectly if you didn't beat Rennala and get it.

[@leyrua]

@@vergulyanets -but your movement speed is capped extremely low (crawling speed only), and you can only attack by throwing furniture and books at people. 😆

[@gyrozeppeli00]

I don't think there's any lore reason for why you can revive indefinitely, unlike Dark Souls, at least that's what I'm getting from the game. When every single tarnished in the game dies, they don't comeback. Npcs you invade during the Volcano Manor questline die and you get their loot, the tarnisheds who went to Stormveil castle with Roderika to be grafted into the scion died, sir Gideon Offnir THE ALL KNOWING! didn't know my double katana bleed mimic summon was coming to solo him and I don't see his ass crawling back from the grave either. And I don't think the blessing of the grace helps, considering Godfrey, the motherfucking first Elden Lord also has his own grace, and it was pointing towards me during the cutscene, he dies and permanently as well. This is just personal observation but I think death means something in this world and canonically our character never dies.

[@halcionjoy7]

The cut dialogue reminds me of the children who were turned into insect fairies in Berserk. Specifically the part where they played war games, ripping each other to shreds. Some of them even did "adult attacks" on each other.

[@starpegasusgamer8561]

Kinda fucked. But then again, most of Berserk is fucked to its core

[@sturmfall1050]

I mean, Miyazaki loves Berserk so it's not a huge stretch to think that was at least some of the inspiration.

[@halcionjoy7]

@@sturmfall1050 They even have a mother figure in the apostle who transformed them. Now that I think of it, they also undergo rebirth in eggs. They even have some gruesome illustrations of eggs getting split open with half-liquefied children inside.

[@SIGNOR-G]

I thought the exact same thing. Luckily here its just a problem of communication instead of "playing adult games". Last time didnt end very well.

[@makenaiyomi1083]

This was pretty though to read. Seeing Guts split open these eggs and be covered with blood and whatnot from these unborn....

[@SillyMegalodon]

One more thing that lends itself to their nonchalant attitude towards death, even in the final version of the game is that they have friendly fire (at least that I remember) on. They can take each other out with their attacks, particularly the one attack where one of them levitates a bunch of stuff to drop onto you.

[@stevenn1940]

Yep I particularly remember that with the chandelier attack

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

Isnt death inconsequencial for everyone in the land between? I thought nobody really died there for centuries because of the removal of the death rune?

[@googisthegreat1397]

​@@JohnSmith-kt3yy Perhaps, but I think that those living there already had some understanding of the concept of death and killing prior to the removal of the rune of death. Even if they can't die right now, they were able to before, which is why it may lead to them going insane and regressing to the zombie-like state most of the less impressive "commonfolk" peppered throughout the game share. It is because they had prior knowledge of what was once an undeniable law before its removal, making the contrast all the more maddening in conjunction with the pains of resurrection; a denial of peace. However, as explained in the video, the reborn children of Rennala fundamentally don't understand the concept of death, and even if they do die and are resurrected, they probably won't become insane for it is to be expected for them, lending to their creepy and alien nature.

[@caseychupinski7553]

I also think the fact that all of their eyes are jaundiced interesting. It seems like the rebirth affects more than their memory, and many of them are pale and sickly. Great video, zullie!

[@JustinL614]

Jaundice will develop in most infants from lack of sunlight. The scholars are always kept indoors so it makes dense they would design them with sunlight deprived features.

[@DeathnoteBB]

It would make sense as the video says they come back frailer, too

[@golemofwill4728]

I hope Rennala comes back for DLC in some way as an ally or enemy. She is the only one left besides egg boy so it would be nice for her to still be around.

[@SIGNOR-G]

We all wish to see *eggboy* again. Maybe reborn as *eggman.*

[@warden8508]

Who’s egg boy?

[@EnterNameToNoAvail]

@@warden8508 Miquella

[@deejorno]

many doors!

[@ValbrandrLeonhardt]

True, but Rennala also isn't a Demigod at all if it remember correctly? Only her children were, and one of them was Empyrean. Miquella will definitely be back. I'm hoping it'll be a Bloodborne style, enter Miquellas dream, which is likely turned Nightmare thanks to Mohgs cursed blood and possible influence by the Formless Mother.

[@wc8246]

If you just whack the scholars instead of killing them, the ones close to Renalla may get the orb again making phase 1 slightly (not much) faster.

[@rupeeheartian6606]

Time for Zullie, therefore time for lore!

[@united_games]

invisible path ahead

[@Voc_spooksauce]

Praise the Witch! Also, time for liking

[@zodiacjun1723]

Behold witch

[@cranapple3367]

Try greatsword, then try watching.

[@JB-xl2jc]

Could this be a amazing something?

[@Arkhavist_S]

Really digging the action shots of late. The little reconstructions as well, like 1:39 and such.

[@alexandercampbell9149]

They may have wrote it off as a lost cause because who on earth would even notice this incredibly soft-spoken dialogue in the middle of a big boss fight with orchestral music, fire, and books coming at you from every angle.

[@acerocket94]

Does that mean I've been killing innocent children who just wanted to play with me instead of imperfect deformations produced by some crazy sorceress?😭😭😭

[@legoheyguy7580]

I don't think this is a very popular opinion, but Rennala's fight is one of my favorites. I'm happy to see this added level of depth to the fight, even though it was removed.

[@siegwardinspirit]

It's an okay fight, but the atmosphere is really good!

[@watchfulwanderer6443]

It's a good fight. I wish it was an end-game fight though, so we could see the real power that Rennala has, rather than the illusion of Rennala conjured by Ranni, who has not seen actual Rennala fight (actual Rennala almost certainly used a sword, and possibly armor as well, and definitely used actual Carian spells). The closest we have to an end-game archmage fight is Gideon.

[@monbub]

I like it too! It's a beautiful fight. Rykard's is also really cool.

[@monbub]

@@watchfulwanderer6443That would be cool, but unfortunately I don't think she has it in her to fight anymore.

[@watchfulwanderer6443]

@@monbub I know. I just wish we got more from Rennala - like, they could have at least given her one Carian spell.

[@TheKaleidobros]

I think the initial arrival dialogue they have and then the fight we have today with some extra giggles and whatnot would strike a good balance without it overwhelming the singing target.

[@ButteryGoodnessINC]

I never really thought about these "kids" (adults turned into children?). I just went "Oh uh... Cathedral of the Deep 2.0?" and went to smashing everything until I figured out the right way of doing the fight. I was like Smough at a buffet.

[@eldenring_area]

I was waiting for it, thanks!!!

[@Holyknight777.O]

This just makes it all the more heartfelt,if you truly think about it,all the juvenile scholars are just poor attempts at recreating a body for ranni,even looking at the second phase when ranni’s voice echoes in defense of her mother ( didn’t know how to word it otherwise),this is just rennala’s attempt at bringing ranni back in the flesh.

[@nightscout9979]

Ranni is a redhead, so these juvenile scholars are probably just closer to clones of Rennala. They even have the same hair color and hair style.

[@TheVeryAngryShrimp]

0:21 yo i didn't even notice that rennala made a gasp when she was about to fall and shatter the barrier. That's so cool!

[@KannagiRaiko]

I`d love to see this restored, honestly. The eeriness behind it feels like having a whole different aspect to the first phase.

[@fedgetfurious]

Its creepy and rather heart breaking at the same time.

[@95keat]

If I had to make a guess as to why this was removed it's because up to four people running around killing them and causing attacks would quickly become an audio nightmare with all their responses

[@soulsbored6144]

Its strange how Zullies videos seem to have their own format and this format can fit the variety of themes that Soulsborne games have, happy, creepy playful etc. Its perfectly balanced in the information it gives and the stylistic way in which it gives it. Unique on youtube from what ive seen.

[@sticky0159]

Reminds me of Nashandra in DS2, initially you thought they were peaceful people but behind the curtains, they actually perform some morbid stuff regardless if they're considered morally evil or not.

[@nightscout9979]

From the moment you can first learn that Nashandra exists, you can learn that she is responsible for messed up vibes and curses. She doesn't bother to hide being full of disdain and greed either.

[@watchfulwanderer6443]

Nashandra is really ominous from the first point you meet her, and her painting literally curses you. Also, she's Vendrick's queen, there's about a zero percent chance of her being a peaceful person. With Rennala, as well, you likely either heard from Miriel that she's doing something weird, or you didn't hear about her except for Gideon saying to go and take her rune. I don't see anything in the game that implies that Rennala will be at all friendly to you, and her first impression is "crazy floating women surrounded by creepy giggling floor mages". I realized she was more peaceful after I fought her, not before.

[@inzanemonkey0510]

Them not valuing death and playfully trying to kill you reminds me of the elf kids from berserk’s lost children arc

[@tarille1043]

What I find most interesting, is the image at 0:44 the close up on the face allows a good view at the eyes. Of which the irises are half blue and half gold. Likely a reference to being a child of Rennala (Blue) and Radagon (Gold). It also brings to mind another character who has a golden and blue eyes... Melina. I wonder if there's any connection there?

[@marybethsanford3541]

What i just noticed is that the scholar at .44 seems to also be cross eyed.

[@watchfulwanderer6443]

Melina's blue eye isn't the same shade of blue, and she has one eye each, rather than two colors in each eye. Hers is more likely a Destined Death thing.

[@Zyk0th]

It's the grace of gold. So many characters have gold in their irises, even Omen. Only the Tarnished don't, that's where the term "tarnished" came from.

[@connormcmullen987]

Honestly I’ve never even used the audio to figure out which one to attack, I always just look for the glowing one lol. To me the lullaby just sounds like it’s coming from all of them in the chaos of the fight.

[@TalkingVidya]

Remainds me of how they removed the death screams of Ocelotte from Dark Souls 3 because... they were REALLY disturbing

[@azadalamiq]

the death screams are still there, you hear the crying through out the fight, it was the body that was removed. ya just rewatched the fight crying is there through out after the poor thing gets smashed... hated this fight.

[@The_Novu]

Still find it funny they can throw books at you with enough force to crush the bones of a guy in full heavy steel armor.

[@Suimega]

Man for once I think it's really a shame they decided to remove this particular idea from the game, whatever the reason was. It'd have made the fight even more striking and memorable.

[@bearhustler]

I wish they'd left that in. So creepy and sad, a feeling that was common in Souls but felt less presence in ER.

[@GrayderFox]

I can see why they'd do this. The fight's already quite hectic and chaotic without all that extra noise. And uh...I don't think I'd wanna fight them if they said this stuff, yeah :c

[@subject_of_ymir]

I still want to rest in Rennala's umbra.

[@DS_DoggerX]

I'm kinda sad that they cut out a lot of the darker elements in the series. Stuff like this, Oceiros's brutal baby mauling and other such things. Understandably they want to remove things that would really draw the ratings to be less favorable, but man, this would've been super creepy. I wonder why they cut this one out

[@OnAChairSitting]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the smashing and squelching sounds can still be heard if you listen closely, though everything else was cut.

[@lightningrose3654]

Audio cues are important in this fight It would be confusing if every scholar toddler was to talk when we are listening for the scholar toddlers creepy lullaby.

[@burneraccounthandle]

@@lightningrose3654 the massive golden aura isn't enough of an indicator for you?

[@arrakaarkana6281]

The one with the aura is also the only one that throws books. It's pretty easy to find them.

[@unclegoose3864]

This 100%, they claim to use berserk at inspiration but these souls games are really just neutered versions of it.

[@jonathanscondrel4456]

Reminds me of the elf children in berserk, playing 'adult games' and being born in eggs, I think there's a connection there

[@bearlyhardley]

I actually can’t believe this dialogue was cut. It adds such an insane amount of lore and context and depth to an otherwise less than amazing boss fight

[@Stuffystufferfield]

I appreciate the crossed eyes due to unformed nasal bridges. Very accurate to a newborn

[@spacepirate9055]

This boss just keeps getting more and more eerie

[@TheEvilOmega]

I always figured that all the children look the same because they're Rennala's attempts at bringing her dear Ranni back to life, so they all look like what a kid Ranni would look like.

[@IDECIDETHETRUTH]

I had read a theory that the children are clones of what Ranni’s original body looked like.

[@dadevi]

That would make sense. Not only did Radagon leave her, but Ranni's body is dead. I’m sure Ranni's death is what really pushed Rennala over the edge considering she's concerned with making more children.

[@yellowmice4985]

She had red hair. You can see their remains on her dead body Maybe they are clones of Rennala? Like some shitty parthenogenesis

[@losersbecomewinners2043]

This is so cool! I love it when games make me feel bad for killing something, like i’ve done something wrong. Makes the weight of your actions feel heavier

[@Derp__]

i’d love to see a recreation of these dialogues in an actual boss fight to see what it would have been like! either way keep up the amazing videos. very interesting as always ❤

[@johnmcgraw1475]

I had no idea the scholar channeling was the one signing. I have taken that fight every time just frantically looking around the arena

[@aswifte5743]

Fromsoft loves to record intriguing lore-heavy dialogue only to cut them out for seemingly no reason

[@soulsatzero3788]

the reason is to make things less on the nose. the games always have much more direct dialogues and then they start cutting things. sometimes because they don't fit into the lore anymore and other times to simply make things more vague.

[@Mekose]

I almost feel like they purposefully leave all these breadcrumbs and files because they know the data-mining and lore community is so hungry. They could have easily deleted these files to save space; but they opted to keep them in because the community loves it and makes videos for years about the souls games.

[@soulsatzero3788]

@@Mekose But a problem with that is that it shows that they are constantly changing things. I have no issue with that because i mostly like how things end up in the final game. But people keep complaining about how this or that questline should have been kept or how a different turn of events would have been so much cooler etc. I don't think that people at From Software are really happy about that. So i assume that these leftovers are just difficult to avoid, even though i personally don't know why.

[@ziggyz8345]

Dark fantasy is always fascinating, rebirth, sorcery and creatures all associated with normal fantasy takes very dark forms

[@spottedslash4256]

Classic fantasy was always Dark. Old Folklore, Grimm Tales and such. But Modern times have changed and edited various tales so it can be more "Child friendly".

[@ziggyz8345]

@@spottedslash4256 when I say " normal fantasy " I visualize it as some of those cheery other worldly like scenes with trees as far as the eye can see, magic beasts and such not so much like folk lore tho and then I see dark fantasy as being like elden ring dark souls, thymesia etc, a realm in chaos with suffering, disease, twisted landscapes and creatures, basically a mirror version of what you call " classic fantasy "

[@spottedslash4256]

@@ziggyz8345 I see what you mean.

[@chrisb9365]

I was hoping you would show more of the scholars' model. With how they crawl on the ground and stated imperfect rebirth I'm wondering if their bodies are malformed as well, or if their legs are fading similar to the Albinaurics.

[@aidenmclaughlin1076]

Imagine my horror when I walk into a room and the first thing I step on is a woman… terrifying

[@yphoenix5957]

I really like the unused spoken lines for the Juvenile scholars, but I still feel really bad for having to attack them. The lines would just make me feel guilty the entire game.💔 In the end, happy Renala is kept alive; taking their mother away would be horrid.

[@Knight_Of_Eleum_Loyce]

This is easily one of my favorite videos of yours. The ambience of Rennala's library while hearing this lore was a really interesting, surreal, spooky and sad experience (all at the same time). That lullaby is also really enchanting (but maybe it shouldn't be, lol).

[@buddy4350]

Don't know whether to feel bad or not for the scholars. On a side note, never realized how derpy the face was lol

[@MrMaradok]

Now I’m imagining the DLC being introduced by Renala like it’s a bedtime story

[@raziej]

Thank you for your work Zullie! Despite some of the content being removed for the sake of anything between gameplay and storytelling reasons, your videos never fail to awaken imagination and help experience all the cut content as if it's been in the game all along. I am a big fan of the format of your videos and will continue to follow your efforts at elevating all of the subtle intricacies of FromSoft's games to our attention. I wish you the most engaged fanbase a youtuber can ask for.

[@NavajoNinja]

Thanks for showing us all of these videos. I played through ER twice and that was it. But that was a slow one and half month playthrough. Imo, its always best to snail crawl your 1st playthrough of any game that you've never played.

[@soulsatzero3788]

oh that's interesting. even though i think i like it without much more. the singing is much more eerie than them saying spooky children things.

[@biggles19861]

and here I thought they were saying "sleep time, bath time. by mother's ashes" or maybe mother's asshole, I never could tell. none of it made sense. I also ran around smacking them fast enough that I did not know there was a second verse

[@puzzleheaded6195]

I have this conspiracy about these guys that starts with Turtle Pope. Judging from his dialogue, we know that Radagon left Rennala to become second Elden Lord after his union with Queen Marika but before he left, he bequeathed the Amber Egg that she is found cradling when we meet her in-game. *puts on tin foil hat* He states she was left heartbroken because of his departure, but what if there is more to the story? What if he left her the egg so that she would be bewitched by it? Let’s look at some details on the Amber egg: We are given dialogue from Gideon that the egg contains a Great Rune, and further progression into the game reveals it to be the The Rune of the Unborn. The rune is not revealed to be associated with any god in particular, much like the Rune of Death, but there are some interesting implications on it. Mohgs Great rune reads - “Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and their Great Runes are naturally similar.” Judging from that item description, the Rune with the most similarity to it is Malenia’s, who was Miquella’s twin. If this egg does contain the Great Rune of Miquella, possibly his soul too, then an explanation for the shape of the rune could be his curse - the “eternal childhood” - and possibly why the juveniles are imperfected, stuck as children and sing about sleep. This brings me to my theory. Rennala is overly attached to it, calling it her little “culver”. We know from the Bewitching Branch that Miquella had the ability to compel love and affection and if we look close, we can see traces of it inside the egg, particularly the white buds before they hatch. We know anything that’s mixed with the blood or essence of Miquella tends to stay in a premature “infant” form, hence the Haligtree being stuck as a baby version of the Erdtree and the buds inside the egg.

[@nightscout9979]

The main problem with this is that Miquella didn't exist yet. Gideon also says that Miquella claimed a Great Rune during the Shattering, but later discarded it. Rennala had the Great Rune of the Unborn long before the Elden Ring was shattered. That said, I agree that Radagon likely had nefarious purposes when he left Rennala the Amber Egg.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@nightscout9979 There’s nothing that definitely proves that but there is evidence to the contrary Miquellan Straight Sword - Sword forged by servants of Miquella of the Haligtree, with a design modeled after those carried by Carian knights. Instead of glintstone however, amber from the Haligtree is embedded in the blade. A sumptuous piece, yet it has never been offered to any knight - an ill-starred sword with no master. Amber medallions - A medallion with crimson amber inlaid. Boosts maximum HP. The Erdtree's old sap becomes amber, treasured as the most precious of jewels in the age of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord. A primordial life energy resides inside.

[@azadalamiq]

@@puzzleheaded6195 he wasn't born yet. >.>;; rad fought a war.. fell in love and married ren after a while left ren, to be the second hubby to mirika who then birth the twins. most likely rad since the knights posed a good threat, he took their gear as inspiration and had servants forge gear of similar nature. not unheard of.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@azadalamiq Miquella grew the Haligtree from his blood and old amber sap from the Erdtree which dropped only during the Age of Godfrey. Read the description of the Amber medallion, miquellan straight sword, and the blessed dew talisman if you want to connect the dots. Also, Radagon is hinted to hail from the Giants which predate even the Erdtree(Giants Red Braid, Sword of Milos).

[@nightscout9979]

@@puzzleheaded6195 All that means is that Miquella was inspired by Carian swords, which isn't unique to him -- Morgott's energy sword is fashioned after a Carian blade too, complete with the blue glintstone. The amber medallions show that amber was valuable even in Godfrey's age, AKA before Godfrey was banished and thus before Miquella was ever born.

[@kapitankapital6580]

"They die and are reborn over and over, and to them the fight is like a game" The player: 😳

[@theoemile2477]

Woah, this would have been one of the most human sounding voices we ever got in the series. I wouldn't have minded that, though I can see how it would have conflicted with the edgy and dramatic tone of every other character.

[@DJROCKSTAZ]

Oh my god, I've seen boss fights of Rennala, but had no idea those were KIDS you had to kill in the first phase! The worst part is, they bear no ill will towards you even if you slay them... they even ask if you could be friends with them-AS YOU SLAUGHTER THEM! My god, that is heartwrenching... and dark..

[@Necrapocalypse]

It's hard for me to imagine this working even in the best of circumstances where there is no audio cue. Too much dialogue to be going on through the whole fight. They have opening lines, then lines when you first attack them, then lines to justify their attacking back, and then lines for different attacks? It's just a lot.

[@danlorett2184]

Add on that there's literally like 15 of them or something, that's way too many dialogue lines for that many characters. Plus it would totally conflict with the one channelling the shield singing.

[@Loremaster85]

@@danlorett2184 Honestly, losing the singing wouldn't be all that bad since there's a giant glowing aura around them. Also, I may be in a minority here, but I never noticed the singing until this video, I always just looked for the aura to find 'em.

[@danlorett2184]

@@Loremaster85 Yeah I blast music when I play so I didn't use the sound cues either. Still sounds like having 10+ NPCs all with lines for when they do stuff in the middle of a fight would be pretty spammy tho.

[@LordSturm777]

@@danlorett2184 in the video when the voice lines are played it's like "all of them" are talking at once, so I figure it would be dialogue that just progressively plays as the fight goes on, like any other boss monologue

[@OneLorel]

Part of me feels like its more likely that these child scholars are versions of Renalla. Seeing as she has the great rune of rebirth, and when you take it from her when you beat her and the children disappear, but you can be reborn yourself. Not to mention Renalla is supposed to be like locke away, so it seems unlikely, to me anyways, that other wizards would come here.

[@ludeviguelemody863]

A reason for the cut was maybe that it would have been a problem for the non english speaking audience to read the subtitles during the fight. I may be wrong because we have seen speaking bosses before, but still with shorter texts

[@Squiggums799]

We've never had a Fromsoft boss with enough spoken dialogue in their fight to be anything more than fluff, so yeah. All of their games' dialogues (except Sekiro) are also exclusively in English.

[@IDECIDETHETRUTH]

@@Squiggums799 I think Bloodborne has Japanese dialogue as well if you toggle the settings.

[@Squiggums799]

Oh really? That's awesome if so. Too bad there's no PC port yet :(

[@Phil-xs5xq]

There is no subtitles for other languagues tho, not for these at least (i played it in spanish)

[@LordTyrone1989]

Finally, I get your insight to Rennala and the juvenile scholars! TBH I already felt uncomfortable about striking them with my swords. They're kind of cute.

[@Puffleman24]

Creepy immortal juvenile singing man-child scholar babies aside, I'd like to point out how much Zullie's videos have improved over time! Obviously the information was always horrif- I mean fascinating but the quality of the videos themselves are fantastic, we're always looking forward to the next little factoid that promises to disturb and enthrall us

[@MomJeans1738]

Facts white boy

[@ProjectMathesar]

No other section of Elden Ring gave me chills like this without jump scares. Loved this fight.

[@shaharyarsiddiqui3346]

Sometimes I feel that they should try and include the cut content

[@TheSilentSoprano1]

lol elden ring is filled with old games cut content, I'm sure at some point some of elden rings cut content will be used.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

If you would add all cut content there would be a lot of things to fix with lore and gameplay: 1. Inconsistent lore would make an mess there is an reason certain things were cut it's just another part of development 2. Lore would explain too much to the player there wouldn't be too much things to explore later. 3.Gameplay reasons for example fight with Rennala would be too loud for the player which would make the player to adjust volume only for specific fight.

[@ItMeChis]

Really cool idea that I wish we'd gotten in some form. Maybe as ambient dialogue instead of ones from each individual sweeting. Like you enter the boss room and get a couple samples of them being curious, then a couple scattered attack and injury ones as the fight commences.

[@trickster20644]

Let's be honest, it probably wasn't cut for unnerving the player, since from soft has done some pretty unnerving stuff. It probably cluttered the noise of the fight too much and made it to difficult to hear the lullaby sound cue of the scholar with the aura.

[@akoyash9964]

maybe players could use their eyes instead?

[@rizqihidayatullah6474]

*Tarnished enters library Children 1 : Stranger! Children 2 : From the outside! The rest of children : Uwooooow!

[@darkzerowolf197]

Phase One of Rennala's battle never left that much of an impression on me. But by God had they actually used this dialogue in the boss battle I would have been genuinely freaked. Damn that sucks, since I love moments just like that in games or any media that can manage that.

[@tombroadhead2377]

I wish they'd kept this. It's haunting.

[@AqilDaiyan]

Do they have legs? I wonder if they are disfigured under their robes

[@ZullietheWitch]

Their animation skeleton has leg bones, but they don't have legs on their model itself.

[@Friedbaboons]

“Boss, those are just kids. Don’t hurt them!”

[@Facepalm9]

As if these things weren't already creepy enough. The whole Rennala thing is really unsettling. What's worse is that it's implied that Rennala, despite being some kind of mother figure to them during their endless cycles, has apparently "forgotten" one of the children. Grimrukh on Twitter mentions that "there is one sweeting in the back corner of the Library who will NEVER be chosen to protect Rennala's golden barrier. She has ID 14000830, but due to an event script typo, will never be able to serve her Queen." Of course, this could just be written off as some minor oversight, but with how much hidden depth there is in FromSoft games, I imagine that there may have been more to that story. Does Rennala not choose them to protect them because she favors that scholar? Or is it that Rennala is somehow punishing them by deeming them unfit to protect her because of some actions that they committed before their rebirth? A lot of people see Rennala as some intermediary aloof figure bound to serve the cycle of rebirth due to the rune that she bears, but I think she's way more sinister and manipulative than we get to see. Her dulcet tones are likely meant to make people feel comfortable and lower their guard so that she can gain their trust to fuel the cycle at the academy.

[@SIGNOR-G]

I believe that she might have been nice before Radagon left her but after shes just a bitter lunatic.

[@riccardocirielli]

you are reading way too much into it. it was just an oversight and Rennala is just completely crazy. she doesn't have any malicious intent

[@jik9693]

Most sane elden ring player

[@Facepalm9]

@@riccardocirielli This channel is literally all about "reading way too much into it." I see you're new here, so be sure to subscribe.

[@riccardocirielli]

@@Facepalm9 on the contrary, I have seen many of her videos. She actually discovers some interesting things and her assunptions are always very calculated and based at least partially on facts about the game. Yours is just rumbling

[@inkoursor2942]

bits of cut content like this always get my gears going on what Elden Ring was originally planned as. I interpret it as a fairly similar game to what we have, but with a larger emphasis on interacting with the Big Bosses of Elden ring as faction leaders instead.

[@The_Conundrum_Crew]

I never played this game, but every time I see something from the game it feels so out of this world and mystical.

[@ZeriocTheTank]

They probably cut the dialogue to make it a tad easier to locate the one with the barrier. I'll be honest I didn't notice the singing right away & was wondering around aimlessly my first few tries.

[@matwuzheer]

Absolutely loving how half of the game lore is hidden in item descriptions and implied through character dialogue, and the other half is hidden in files that the devs could have removed but chose to keep

[@kaiser9598]

I'm not gonna lie, I initially thought those Juvenile Scholars were actually _students_ of Raya Lucaria, who were trapped in the academy after it sealed itself. Brainwashed into this childlike state after months, maybe years of not being able to leave. Being forced to learn sorceries, over and over again, without any end. Yeah.. I was on the brink of tears every time I attempted this fight. Took me about 6 tries, lol

[@Schmurgan]

Phwoar! This one would have been super creepy to play through. So glad we got to see it. Thanks Zullie!

[@zx4908]

The way they talk weirdly reminds me of the many from system shock.

[@felixramirez9920]

I found the cutscene pretty interesting as well as the fight. Felt to me like a lore piece for the first phase rather than an engaging battle. Enjoyed learning about them.

[@ethanp.796]

"I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is."

[@thediamondcutter9185]

When I got to this part my reaction was something along the lines of: "Wow this is suddenly Star Wars Episode 3 all over again"

[@crunglemcbungley]

This is so absolutely horrifying, and I want it back immediately

[@Graff-z4x]

"If we're turned to stone, will we be born again?" this one strikes me most

[@benjaminknight8041]

I'd love a more flesh out fight where they excitedly call out attacks in exchange for them being unavoidable without knowledge of the attack. To be forced to listen closely as they spoil the nature of their assault, sounds terrifying.

[@childofcascadia]

The scholars shocked me the first time I fought Rennala. I was playing with a friend who gave me a super quick lore rundown (as we fought for our lives) about the Rennala and the Scholars. I just found their story so sad and creepy and epic. It led me on a lore quest to find out as much as I could about them.

[@ABadassDragon]

This should have been kept in, its just the right amount of creepy and i love it

[@anjamari4670]

These are one of my favorite npcs thank you SO MUCG ❤

[@DrakusRecords]

I felt really bad killing them, now I feel even worse. They just wanted to be friends with you! You really are the villain in this game.