Electric Car Fires - Facts and Figures

[@SeanLinsley]

With lithium iron phosphate coming down in price I hope we'll see it replacing traditional lithium in cars. It doesn't exhibit thermal runaway, doesn't use rare metals like cobalt, and has significantly longer cycle life.

[@dcallan812]

I was going to say the same thing. As new battery technology is filtering down it can only mean safer EVs all round..

[@4literv6]

This year in china who leads in total cells made&capacity is seeing 63% of all cell production as lfp/lmfp chemistries. Tesla has sold over half of all their base model's as lfp since late 2021 now. The megapacks are all lfp since last year, and the powerwall 3 is switching to lfp cells.

[@hughmarcus1]

I read an article yesterday about a valet driver who outrun his talent at Stansted Airport & crashed a Tesla M3 through the fence & into a pond. According to the Sun the lithium ‘leaked’ into the pond killing all the wildlife. 🙄

[@Kenneth-ts7bp]

Sure

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@hughmarcus1 Yup. That sounds like the Sun.

[@TheBonsaiZone]

They are not media stories, the media is reporting on events that happened. The reason EV fires make the news is that often the car burns to the ground and can take a building or other cars with it. If this took place with non EV fires, it would make the news also.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

1000s of ICE vehicles burn everyday, destroying themselves other cars and property but they are not newsworthy because they are so common, it’s boring, nobody is interested. The same is true of the millions of ICE vehicles presently being recalled by manufacturers like BMW, Kia, Ferrari, Hyundai, Ford, etc, because of risk of catching fire. It’s just not newsworthy. There’s no EV being recalled because of fire risk. But if there were, believe me, it would be front page news.

[@billcompton6050]

Brother, we call that FUD. FEED UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT Unfortunately all kinds of things catch fire. I am a fire alarm system provider and our systems detect all kinds of fires. The local Fire Department is well aware of all the hazardous materials out there so they have the proper equipment and training to extinguish whatever type of material is on fire. EV battery's are just another example. thank you for educating people. bill Compton

[@4literv6]

Thank you for saying so. The people I know here in ATL and Cobb county fd say about every 5th fire they roll on is a vehicle FIRE. And the #1 recall across ALL LEGACY ice oems currently effecting 10,000,000+2-5 year old vehicle's? Is for the risk of FIRE even when parked. Hence why garages used to always be detached structures. 😁

[@stuartburns8657]

Not certain many if any fire departments are equipped or adequately trained to put out battery fires..

[@Tron-Jockey]

So true. Gasoline has on average 33.7 kWh of energy per gallon. A 12 gallon tank of gasoline contains roughly 400 kWh of energy. A pickup truck with a full 26 gallon tank has roughly 875kWh of energy (a potential BOMB). Even though an ICE can only take advantage of less than 30% of those energy totals it's still nearly 100% of the total energy that gets released when it burns or explodes. The average EV battery pack is less than 85kWh and is made up of hundreds if not thousands of small individual cells each with much smaller amounts of energy. An exploding tank of gasoline with 400 or more kWh of energy is FAR more destructive than a burning 75kWh battery pack (especially when you consider that the individual cells in a battery pack DO NOT EXPLODE IN UNISON). Watch any video of a burning EV and you'll hear the sound of individual cells popping off one after another. No big explosions. The cells are also typically enclosed in a steel clamshell style case (which admittedly does make them more difficult to extinguish but more importantly provides more time to get away from or be extracted from, the burning vehicle). Since a battery pack of individual cells does not explode all at once it usually takes more than a few minutes for battery fires to engulf the entire pack or the vehicle. Not so with an ICE vehicle and a tank of gas. Consider as well that EV fires are more likely to be contained within the vehicle especially if the fire department arrives in an acceptable period of time. A ruptured tank of gasoline presents a more serious risk of spreading and even explosion. If you've ever been to an accident scene where trapped passengers can smell gasoline then you know what people experiencing shear terror act like. For those who want to see the difference and just how dangerous transporting petroleum is, KZbin has a few tanker fires caught on traffic cameras you might be interested in viewing. Enter "Deadly Tanker Fire Italy" or simply "Tanker Fire" into the search bar above. You will NEVER see an EV (even an electric semi) do anything even close to this. Although the anti-EV trolls will disagree, perspective is important.

[@NoMoYOUsernames]

*FEAR, UNCERTAINTY, DOUBT (FUD). Other than that, spot on.

[@stidwell91]

batteries

[@conradharcourt8263]

If the battery casing contains everything needed to sustain a fire, should it not also contain some form of automatic suppressant that is activated if the temperature exceeds a safe limit?

[@backslash11]

That's kind of what a 'seperator' is in a lithium battery (you might remember the Bolt recall was blamed on faulty separators). If the temperature of a single cell gets too high, the porous plastic separator layer in between its anode and cathode melts into a solid piece and the ions can't flow through anymore, so no more heat. It works in most situations, but reality can be another story

[@TheKruizr]

Thanks for this, and I and most of your viewers, no doubt, know that this is the truth, but sadly, you're mostly preaching to the choir.. so many people will still believe the BS being spread out there.. 😐

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I agree. Hopefully people can share this episode to those that need to know the facts about EV fires. 👍

[@paulplant7956]

So, never park your electric car in a car park, because a petrol car might start a fire and destroy your EV.

[@TheDude12374]

The difference is that the petrol car fire can be easily extinguished. Never park your EV in a garage.

[@TheDude12374]

The difference is that the petrol car fire can be easily extinguished. Never park your EV in a garage.

[@TheDude12374]

The difference is that the petrol car fire can be easily extinguished. Never park your EV in a garage.

[@sgonnason9120]

The dude does not get your irony. I believe everything I want to on KZbin 😤

[@Anomize23]

Nice try but that wouldn’t ignite when the vehicle is off. AGAIN NICE EFFORT

[@briantarby675]

In Denmark the fire brigade has a container with an electric winch. In case of a burning EV, for example in a carpark, the fire brigade will drag the burning car into the container with the winch. The container is then moved to a remote place where the fire is kept under control. In the container the car is cooled with water, that is recycled in a closed loop, inside the container. The car will remain in the container for at least 24 hours to make sure that the fire is put out for good 👍

[@2.3_44XD--]

This proves that also authorities unfortunately believe the sensational stories of the propaganda. They really think that it is a matter of time that one EV will catch fire instantly.

[@ad_fletch]

Meanwhile in countries like Australia (and presumably the US and UK) we’ll just focus on complaining and overreacting to the occasional BEV fire and denying the need to shift away from fossil fuels asap, instead of coming up with clever solutions like that.

[@kebeleteeek4227]

In parking space situation in confined spaces situation (like building basement .. ferry ships ..etc) ... how likely this "wiched container" will work to overcome BEV fire incident ..??????????????/

[@briantarby675]

@@kebeleteeek4227 One "?" is quite enough, to make your point. Weel they use them in practice, so there's your answer... I do believe there are some solutions with small robots to drag them of the car park to the container

[@kebeleteeek4227]

@@briantarby675 How quick those robots can be deployed to deal with rapid cascading effect of BEV battery self combustion ..?? .. How strong those robots to deal with "incinerator" kind of fire situation in confined spaces (basements .. ferry ships ..etc ..) ...?? ... Not to mention the availability of that robots .. ??

[@dfishpool7052]

Nice to see some reason being brought to the EV fire debate. Apparently Murdoch has instructed the editors of his rags to include a negative story about EVs in every issue!

[@alanmcinnes1111]

Hi Richard, thank you for tackling this topic and showing the hypocrisy of corporate media on the danger of gas car fires vs EVs. It would be great if you could also touch on battery chemistries and how LFP and other chemistries are even less prone to thermal runaway. I suspect future chemistries won’t have any risk of a fire. I love your channel! Thanks from Surrey, British Columbia. 👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍👍

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Very true, LFP modules like those in my wife’s Tesla Model 3 are much less likely to ignite than lithium based battery modules. 👍

[@user-jx3eo6wj6n]

The hypocrisy is never mentioning or trying to understand what causes those car fires! People have Ben messing around with their cars installing cheap gadgets all over the places! I've seen some terrible cablings at mechanics on KZbin.

[@grahamgreen9440]

Thanks for this balanced review of some of the facts around this. A couple of points that you might want to look into and update us on are: 1. Hybrid cars have been about for quite a few years now are there any stats that show their rate of catching fire and cause (battery or ICE)? 2. What age were the BEVs that caught fire, is it more or less likely in an older vehicle? There are other areas as well that someone will be researching I.e method/speed of charging predominately used, battery chemistry etc.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

There’s a graph in the below link that shows car fires split by electric, hybrid and other fuel types. www.warpnews.org/transportation/fewer-fires-in-electric-cars-compared-to-fossil-fueled-cars-in-the-worlds-country-with-the-highest-share-of-electric-cars/

[@overson15]

​@@ElectricClassicCarsI believe that in the United States 80 % of vehicles fires occur in vehicles that are over 10 years old . Since most Evs on the roads are less than 10 years old we will have to wait and see

[@eagle2019]

@@overson15 Exactly!!! This analysis is flawed!

[@steventrott8714]

@@overson15from that, we could throw out 80% of the 20x likelihood of gas fires. Now they’re a mere 4 times likely to catch fire.

[@steventrott8714]

@@eagle2019see above

[@grahambeyer6254]

The fire In Frankfurt last week (Sept 2023) at a Tesla car dealership, was arson and also none of the batteries exploded or caught on fire, only the shell of the cars were burnt.

[@eveningstar3230]

Very informative! Excellent video!!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thank you!

[@jonathancamp1460]

This video is based on facts, your comment is based on conjecture. Do you have facts to support your assumptions? How do you know that as EVs age they are more likely to catch fire? If, as you say, they are not old enough to be a fair comparison (despite not knowing how old the ICE cars that were included in these reports were) then it is not possible to have any evidence to support your claim. And BTW the point of the video was to present the actual facts, not to discuss sources of ignition or to explain fuels ignite. @@orionbetelgeuse1937

[@code-fox]

Asa firefighter I was expecting you to provide a very one-sided opinion, but this was a very balanced outline. Thanks.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Glad you enjoyed it! And thanks for doing what you do. 👍

[@spudproductions7606]

That’s good to hear 👍👍

[@jimcabezola3051]

I JUST looked up a random National Transportation Safety Board (a U.S. organisation) statistics page, and they also agree with your figures, Richard. In a 2018 study, the U.S. insurance company claim statistics in 2018 claim roughly 199k petrol (no diesel fire breakout, sadly...) fires, a surprising 34k hybrid car fires, and 52 EV fires. So...let's plug in that EV and get on with our lives, shall we? For my (too lazy) part...I never looked up fire statistics for my only form of transportation: a pedal bicycle 😆🤣! Given the traffic here...I have entirely different problems 😆🤣!

[@spudproductions7606]

Cheers 👍👍

[@James_T_Quirk]

Yes Us Bike riders seem "Invisible" to some Car Drivers, I have 1 of my Bikes Fitted with Bafang Mid Drive Electric, with a 17.5Amp Lithium Battery between my Legs, & its NOT the Batteries I watch when riding on Road ...

[@jimcabezola3051]

​@@James_T_Quirk 😆🤣

[@danielcarroll3358]

I remember reading a statistic that there is a car fire every eighteen minutes in The United States. Not many are EVs.

[@4literv6]

@@danielcarroll3358 last year 217,00 car fires divided by 365 days, 24hrs in a day, 60 mins per hour? I came up with a car fire about every 4 or 5mins on average in 2022 for the U.S. alone. Here in GA I see them all the time out on the hwy. One dumb fuck recently pulled into our nearest shell station on FIRE and 3 local engines had to respond to put it out. When I worked downtown ATL security we had a moron pull in our deck on fire already, then park next to another car jump out and as a result? We lost 3 total cars to that fire and the fd responding had to cut out part of the side railing to the parking deck, just to get to the cars on fire. I'm sure I have smoke inhalation lung damage from that incident. I used 3 local extinguishers on it before the fd got there and literally tried drowning IT in thousands and thousands of gallons of water. But yeah evs are deadly don't ya know! 😏

[@Space-fc4lu]

Very, very important video!👍👍👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍👍

[@NewZeroland]

Thanks for setting the record straight!

[@alunjones2550]

I for one will be more comfortable when LFP batteries are widely used, both in terms of safety but more importantly, longevity. I wonder if there is still a concern with older batteries reaching a point where they might short-circuit and cause thermal runaway.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Yep, my wife’s Tesla M3 has LFP modules in. 👍

[@tesla-spectre]

For sweden: one should even differentiate between EV and Hybrid because the latter are also ICE. For the pure EVs the percentage is even smaller

[@89five3five]

Hybrids are EVs. Hybrid is just short for Hybrid Electric Vehicle. The ICE power plant is there to charge the small battery.

[@simonpaine2347]

@@89five3five The point being made (which I also came here to make) is that Hybrid cars are more likely to catch fire BECAUSE of the fact that they have an ICE on board as well as a battery, which in reality is the most dangerous combination. If the study was made just using pure EV'S then the percentage of fires would be much less.

[@tesla-spectre]

@@89five3five nope. depends on what type of hybrid and it is in any case NOT a BEV because it has an ICE

[@pm8465]

Nice to have someone who quotes a few facts, unlike some other main electric channels who promote electric vehicles as world saving but put no actual facts forward. As for vehicle fires, the safest is diesel. As a retired Police traffic officer went to countless vehicle fires, all petrol.

[@simonpaine2347]

@@pm8465 True in your day, but now, as the figures prove, pure EV'S are by far the safest.

[@jonthorne4326]

Well said Moggy. All the time the media blows everything out of proportion when it comes to ev’s ,they are only doing it because it sells more papers .Another one I’ve heard is that don’t park your ev in a multi story car park because the ev’s are to heavy and the building collapses.What a load of bull , there’s a lot more SUV’s heavier than ev’s . .keep up the good work up Moggy !!

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍👍😊

[@stuartjohnston1086]

Aye, the multi story car park one was amusing. I found a good comparison was a 2023 BMW M3 CS and a 2023 Tesla Model 3 Performance. The BMW weighs 1840Kg and the Tesla weighs 1847Kg. I think the car park will handle the extra 7Kg, lol

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve had someone argue that point with me too. Turns out he drove a Range Rover which weighed nearly 3 tons. 😉🤣😆😂

[@ianemery2925]

There is actually (possibly) a good reason NOT to park in a multistory with an EV. If an EV decides it no longer wants to power on, there is no neutral gear to use; the car has to be dragged onto a trailer; but in most multistory carparks, the roof is too low to do this; so somehow, you have to get the car outside. The one instance I know of (video on YT, but I forget the channel), it took 8 guys, some special dollies and a car rigged for towing - to get it outside where the regular flatbed could load it. Really luckily for the owner, the car was on the ground floor; can you imagine trying to move it down some of those curved ramp exits you get?

[@stuartjohnston1086]

@@ianemery2925 Recovery from the higher levels of a multi story car park is tricky for any vehicle. I get what you are saying about no neutral. I'm no expert but there is probably a way round it. Maybe pulling the drive shafts.

[@bordersw1239]

All the figures I have seen regarding car fires are as a result of a vehicle accident. What I haven’t seen are any figures for cars that have just caught fire whilst parked or charging.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The report I referenced included fires whilst parked and charging. 👍

[@bordersw1239]

@@ElectricClassicCars . Looks like I’ll have to brush up on my Swedish. Not to be too pedantic but what was the average age of the vehicles that caught fire - as that may have some relevance.

[@djgill92]

Thank you for this info Moggy. Amazing content. 🍻

[@ElectricClassicCars]

No worries!

[@ursstemmler4856]

Richard I think you should add one more filter and only compare fire occurrences of the same age ICE (excluding fires of vehicles older than the EV fleet) and EVs (of which there aren't any "old" ones).

[@LoremIpsum1970]

It was a rather shallow, not deep dive into that, which really did more harm than good if you can think critically for yourself...

[@geralddavison]

I thought the same. A poorly maintained 10 year old ICE car is going to be more risky anyway than a 1 year old car of any fuel type. Beware of statistics. I'm an EV driver by the way and firmly believe in the future of Electric road transportation.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

@@geralddavison I'm with Toyota on this one. And as for the Grid, I have zero confidence we'll be able to afford the transition, unless we rely on imports from Europe. We can't even foot the bill for highspeed rail at 100B let alone 100B per year for the Grid...

[@geralddavison]

@LoremIpsum1970 do you mean Toyota and Hydrogen? I'd be happy to see green hydrogen powered vehicles. Just think it's unlikely as we'd need three times as much electricity as for BEVs. Plus it'll be way more expensive. Hydrogen fuel cells will be part of the picture for sure.... but unlikely to be anything except niche use.

[@geralddavison]

@LoremIpsum1970 I'm afraid I'd rather trust the actual people and engineers responsible for the electricity grid. We are way below our peak usage which was in 2005 when we used 358 TWh. In 2022 it had dropped to 275 TWh. EVs will add to that, but careful use of differential pricing will smooth out peak demands.

[@dj_paultuk7052]

The cheaper Chinese brand cars are definitely an issue. BYD in particular has a really bad track record, even more so in their home market in China. 1580 So far in 2023.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I don’t doubt it but that number has to be put into the context that BYD has sold over 4 million battery cars in China so far.

[@nordic5490]

BYD sold 1.8M vehicles world wide in 2022, way more than Tesla. If that 1580 figure is accurate (doubtful), then that is a fire rate of 0.088%, ie a very low chance of fire. You should be aware that most Tesla evs sold globally use either BYD or CATL LFP batteries now.

[@richardhewitt.easyvanlife.6957]

But a bloke down the pub, said they all catch fire.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

We all know THAT guy down the pub. 😉😆😂🍺👍

[@LestatTravesty]

that thinkign works both ways bud...who cares what that bloke said. i tend to think on this matter as if it was me, the ev is at my fkn place and how easy....just i...can put it out. and thats the very fine difference here. i won't be able to put it out or any means to move it so it don't take out other vehicles. my home, garage everything is now in jeopardy going right into my neighbors belongings taboot. its all in high jeopardy just because i coudn't immediately take my got dam garden hose and put the pos out. that i had to wait and let it burn everything up around it until the fire guys arrive. just 10 minutes of them kind of blazing, cause runnaway off onto everything around it. fk....that. so ok 20x less likely. fine. point taken. regardless though...its just not my vehicle that i will be out of. thats pretty much a guarantee it will take out god knows what else around it. i just can't put the fire out myself. thats the real breaker for me

[@steveinoz8188]

@@LestatTravesty Always look on the bright side of life.

[@steveb796]

He read it on the internet.

[@andrewjordan6542]

The question should be what happens to the people in the ev when it catches on fire if they can escape unharmed does it matter if the car then incinerates itself,

[@patrickh7368]

Apparently when “we” were getting off horseback and getting in (or on) Petrol cars, these peoples ancestors said these would catch fire explode and we’ll all die 🙄

[@philipoakley5498]

Ah the great 1894 Horse Shit Disaster (see Wikipedia ;-)

[@mattsmith517]

I believe its referred to as the "man bites dog" effect. If it's rarer, its more sensational and therefore more newsworthy.

[@robeigner4390]

We know all EV batteries are not created equal. It would be interesting to know if the Swedish study broke down the EV fires by the type of battery they had. We know the LG-Chem(?) batteries used in the GM cars were terrible while LFP batteries have hardly ever(?) caught on fire. The fact the study shows an effective halving of EV fires (twice the cars, same number of fires) is a good sign poor batteries are being removed and replaced with better batteries. I would also like to know how many EV fires were attributed to arsonists. Of course we all know the facts don't matter to a lot of people, especially those with interest (lots of money) in oil stocks. These people don't care if ICE vehicles catch on fire because everyone knows this happens frequently. Oil lovers simply can't handle the fact that oil use will and is going down because of renewable energy production and EVs and they can't stand their bank accounts losing money. It's always about money, hardly ever about facts. One last thing. I'm sick of all the filthy trucks, diesel and gas, that spew garbage into the air. I do a lot of walking and I should be wearing a mask to keep from inhaling these fumes along with all the cigarette/cigar smoke coming out of cars and by people being required to smoke outdoors. They need to have bags put over their heads to contain all the smoke so I don't get second hand cancer. (Studies have shown non-smokers are getting much more cancer caused by second hand tobacco smoke.)

[@MrMartinious]

Not sure about Sweden or the states but here in Australia or at least Tasmania the vast majority of ice fires are arson! Very common to see burnt vehicles on the road or in the bush. What im saying is that it skews the numbers a bit. Id love to have an ev but will wait for a while to see what happens with the infrastructure, which at the moment is not up to the task.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

I agree... The same applies here in the USA.

[@matthewstanton9633]

So EV vehicles are never susceptible to arson 👍 got you

[@alastairhatt360]

The infrastructure in Australia is very well implemented. Most people charge at home over night anyway. Only using super chargers when travelling longer distances. I live in Perth Western Australia and there are plenty even around the country areas and getting better.

[@steveevans1247]

The rate of fires in Sweden is very interesting, My first thought was maybe its the early electric cars that were catching fire ,and maybe later ones have a much lower chance of catching fire. Car insurance companies must surely be measuring the rates of fires of all vehicles. The chance of a fire will be reflected in the rate of insurance for each model. great video I have shared to my facebook.

[@spudproductions7606]

Correct that insurance companies will be adjusting premiums to suit. 👍👍

[@yt-paolo]

That’s great! Doing a google search also reveals that LFP batteries are even safer and they don’t catch fire even if they are punctured through the cell 👍

[@ElectricClassicCars]

True 👍

[@james_l4337]

Normally LFP if short circuited they smoke and get hot Smoke from the evaporting liquid in battery However if the heat is great and cause other materials to burn the heat & fire then can set the LFP battery on fire. Yet LFP is much safer as one have time to get out car. Smoke 1st and may then catch fire depend on situation & weather, temperature Also LFP don't produce own oxygen so can be put out like other normal fires But the battery will continue to heat until energy are dissipated, that will be many hours

[@james_l4337]

Safest battery is sodium battery If proven true, safest for home energy storage Supposedly battery will not set itself on fire

[@ramblerandy2397]

I suppose the most notorious BEV to catch fire is the GM Chevy Bolt. The tractor battery is supplied by LG Chem. And a fair few caught fire. My VW ID3 battery is also supplied by LG Chem. You don't hear of VW ID Series cars going up in smoke every 5 minutes, do you. That bit about BMW car fires. I believe it was South Korea where BMWs were to be banned unless BMW started taking their petrol car fire risk seriously. Incidentally, I have been in 2 petrol car fires. Neither made the news, of course. One was quite serious and it was only because the car was parked near a newly painted garage door that I detected the flames early, and was able to get out and douse the flames.

[@johnt.848]

One of the problems the Media seems to keep rehashing regarding Lithium batteries is the difficulty in extinguishing them with WATER. Perhaps if they used the correct medium for a chemical fire that flares up with water, the fire would be out much sooner. I remember seeing the effect water has on a magnesium alloy fire resulting from a VW engine fire, it only made that worse too.

[@SuperBartet]

So what you are saying is that when the fire brigade takes 4 hours to put out a EV fire, it's because they don't know what they are doing. And after they have put it out, and hours later it bursts into flames again, it's their fault.

[@ronfacciol4904]

Well said Richard. We had an incident in Sydney last week where a "luxury" electric car (an MG) caught fire at the airport and destroyed a number of cars near by. You can imagine the feeding frenzy of the media. First of all, these cars were in a holding yard, and not the main carpark. Then it turned out that this car had had its main battery removed for some yet unknown reason, and that battery apparently was lying on the ground next to the car. The battery caught fire. Do you think the media tried to present these facts as they became known ? As you say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story......

[@mrrberger]

Facts eh? Could have mentioned which of the five countries around the world the Sydney was you referred to, or that fact didn't matter. So a corperate money saving exercise causing a toxic fire next to an international airport Aviation control tower is easily due media scrutiny and followup. There was no feeding frenzy proportionate to the lack of national safety standards allowing the corporate incompetence or risk to life that incident exposed. The under frenzy is more likely to delay safety standards till they get written with peoples blood, seatbelts anyone?

[@BrianFraser]

Very good overview. Re ICE car fires I think the age needs to be taken into account. I think that the stats should cover let's say the most recent 3 years. So anything under MOT age. Because using a general set of figures over a period of different times would take into account specifics like the ole Vauxhall Meriva or whatever model it was, where 100's of them were burning. Same with some of the early 2000's with super cars. Re EV's I think it's whether or not the rumours about some of the cheaper Chinese cars that allegedly catch fire every day and the risks of importing them 'en masse to Europe. I do agree that the media loves to exaggerate stories and or twist the facts. Keep up the good work Moggy

[@spudproductions7606]

👍👍

[@coniow]

An update on the Freemantle fire, the Salvors have now unloaded the ship. NONE of the Electric Cars on board burned. I believe that they were all driven off. Sooooo. Unlikely that one of them caused the fire in the first place.

[@user-eo4ci6ni6n]

The likelihood of catching fire is irrelevant. all fire has the potential to be catastrophic. EV is far more serious if they do burn and that's the issue. i can predict a petrol/diesel car fire's growth and spread, I can't do it with an EV, puls they are all parked next to ordinary cars which ignite EV. your facts are useless.

[@BrentonSmythesfieldsaye]

Your narrative is useless.

[@ryanevans2655]

That’s not how math works. You’d need to factor in both likelihood and damage potential to evaluate risk. For example, a 2x higher damage potential, with a 0.05x frequency multiplier (as shown in the Swedish data) is a way lower overall damage potential and risk.

[@nicolasrose3064]

"The likelihood is irrelevant".....!? How the f-ck is a "likelihood" irrelevant, it's likely to happen, it has a higher chance of happening than not, where in that, does "irrelevant" come in exactly.....?? For the sake of trying to make out like you are some kind of authoritative source of information, you have effectively made your attempt "irrelevant"...

[@ElectricClassicCars]

A car park full of EVs won’t spread fire as fast as one full of ICE vehicles. As any fire department will tell you. This is because the highly combustible fuel stored in an ICE vehicle, once ignited will spread from car to car through rivers and pools of fire. As stated in the Liverpool Echo Car Park fire report. It also mentioned that fire easily spread to different levels within the car park via “waterfalls of fire”. Controlling an EV fire requires the correct suppression strategy, just like you wouldn’t use water on a grease fire as it would make it worse. A fire blanket is the best solution for an EV fire.

[@user-eo4ci6ni6n]

@@nicolasrose3064 You missed the point completly innyour rant. I am agreeing with you. And for the record, you have no idea what my qualification or employment are. 😄

[@rogerstarkey5390]

If you could get to the pack early enough the trick might be to freeze the cells AROUND the area already shorted to prevent spread. Maybe a liquid nitrogen lance?

[@philipoakley5498]

Simply a water lance is sufficient, with water from the on-board fire truck's tank. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqnNdZejq52oqM0

[@LoremIpsum1970]

what do you then do with a possible reignition at some unknown time later on? I wouldn't want to get anywhere near a battery fire, even just off-gassing, especially not to check which bank of cells had gone run away...you do know why firefighters wear all that PPE and breathing apparatus don't you? Check this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3qslYChrLB_ppY

[@philipoakley5498]

@@LoremIpsum1970 that's not much different from not smoking around burnt out cars that have lots of toxic residues and any remaining fuel stuffs. In some senses it's a familiarity problem (came was when horse drawn trucks were phased out)

[@LoremIpsum1970]

@@philipoakley5498 Check this quote before you go all hero: United Firefighters Union Australia 11/03/23: "We've already had a situation in Victoria where two firefighters suffered cobalt poisoning after attending an EV fire, and have now been permanently disabled as a result". Lithium-ion battery fires release toxins such as carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride and cobalt. These toxins were particularly dangerous for firefighters because they were absorbed through the skin and clothing could not protect against them.

[@MrGMawson2438]

Nice one Richard

[@jost4786]

At Stavanger Airport at Sola, a diesel heater started a fire and most of the parking area with cars burnt down. Electric car next to the diesel car did not catch fire in the battery, but tires melted etc

[@delsydsoftware]

A couple weeks ago, a local news station had a story about an electric car crashing into a tree, causing a massive fire. The detail they left out of the headline was the fact that the electric car crashed into the tree 6 feet above ground...and -may- have been exceeding the speed limit just a bit before launching into the air and colliding with the tree.

[@grandche3966]

Speeding might be caused by braking issue

[@grandche3966]

@conradharcourt8263 thanks for sharing

[@Martyntd5]

///been exceeding the speed limit just a bit before launching into the air and colliding with the tree./// ...and if the car had been an ICE vehicle doing the same thing, would that have caused a massive fire too? Or to put it another way, the speeding bit is irrelevant, it's the causing a massive fire part that is noteworthy.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

...but that's still a fire...no? does the speed or whether it was flying make any difference?

[@mswen1983]

When someone hits a tree, I just assume they were either drunk, speeding, driving like an a--hole, or all three. People tend to hit trees or power poles pretty hard.

[@robertowen6499]

I accept what you are saying , and it is probable that battery technology will improve in respect of safety .My concern at the moment is that Firefighters do not have adequate supplies of suitable equipment to deal with E.V.fires and are unlikely to do so for quite some time yet.

[@MrAtheHun]

Really enjoy the channel, in awe of the skilled engineering. Thank you very much. Have driven an electric car for nearly 6 years. Although obviously I've lost 2 of them to spontaneous combustion because I slammed the door too hard. Tyres only last to the end of the road but that's OK because the range is only 200 yards anyway. I'm running out of car parks that I haven't destroyed with the excessive weight. Then there's the guilt of all those children who dug out all the rare earth elements in my wiper stalk, and I've lost count of the number of people I've run over because they didn't hear me coming. Then there's the crippling expense of all the special electric servicing. HELP 😄 Factual content doesn't make the difference it should. Ideas are facts these days.

[@spudproductions7606]

Well said. 😂😂😂👍

[@ElectricClassicCars]

True. Because we have the word ‘Facts’ in the thumbnail I can guarantee this vid won’t do as well as others. 😉😆👍

[@mrrberger]

Nice tongue in cheek dis, like the drunk driving wife beater who says 6 years of drinking and swinging aint found him jailed so it cant be bad. "Ideas are facts these days", like you labeling the channel "skilled engineering" or using your sample set of one justification. With your double negative EV prognostications, you'd sprout a pretty lyrical on insurance, cant wait.

[@severnsea]

So you're saying they don't set on fire, the tyres don't wear out quicker, the range isn't worse than ICE cars and the extra weight of all these EVs when they're eventually forced on everybody - let's not forget that very important point - won't translate to any extra wear and tear at all on the already battered roads? I, along with my dog, came very close to being hit by some stupid woman reversing out of her driveway a couple of years ago. No idea she was there, high bushes either side, no way I could see or hear her. That would not have happened with an ICE car because I would have heard it. But I suppose you're going to say that we should stop and look every time we want to walk along a section of footpath that crosses a driveway. Or maybe the fact that the rapid acceleration and silent operating will almost certainly lead to more deaths doesn't actually matter because it's for the greater good? But I'm just another ignorant minion, what do I know.

[@bellofbelmont]

Well presented. % of cars is a good point. Jim Bell (Australia)

[@neilt]

Thank you for a rational and knowledgeable take on this topic.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Our pleasure!

[@al251049]

Very good info, if you live Sweden , different cars, different batteries, better charging infrastructure etc , not comparable.

[@Chris-bg8mk]

A big Volvo SUV burned in my neighborhood a couple days ago. Brand new. Gas powered.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

And I get that was all over the news? Not 😆🤣😉👍

[@stephenlee5929]

Hi, I understand your point about fires are more likely in ICE cars than EVs, given the Swedish stats, but were those ICE cars older, I'm guessing the average age of an ICE car is much higher than an EV in Sweden (or most places). Are car fires more likely in older cars? Note I don't think EVs are a high fire risk, but we do need to get better at dealing with them.

[@MrAdopado]

Looking at the recalls of *new* ICE vehicles for fire risk would suggest that though age may indeed be a factor it is primarily the inherent challenge of dealing with highly flammable fuel... otherwise new cars wouldn't be being recalled. (You would think manufacturers would have dealt with this issue after more than a 100 years of ICE production!)

[@ianmilne655]

I was just having a conversation about this at work today, in the past week we've had 5 IC engined vehicle fires here, but no EV fires. Alot of it is media firing up (pardon the pun!) Over an EV fire just for clickbait, I'd been following that ship fire which is a prime example of how the media exaggerates these things without any research into what Actually caused it, purely for grabbing headlines and clickbait. Well researched vid Moggie👍 Looking forward to your brrmm brrmm noises when you're driving the teslarossa😉👍😂

[@4literv6]

Anyone else want to know what caused the other 209 global cargo ship fires in 2022? I mean we think 1 was actually some evs fault. But that evidence for that went down to Davy Jones locker so to speak. Also if phevs and evs are such a fire risk? How come tesla and byd who alone have made&shipped over 9,000,000 vehicle's just since 2008 all with large lion batteries. Aren't having more problems. 🤔

[@paulstaf]

I live in Dallas, Texas and over the last 6 months I have seen 2 ICE cars on fire, and 1 ICE motorcycle on fire! I have not seen ANY electric vehicles on fire. 🙂

[@user-sd3ik9rt6d]

Bet they didn't make the news on 1000 anti petrol vehicle blogs.

[@4literv6]

Ice car fires in the U.S. alone happen on average every 4 or 5 mins.

[@spudproductions7606]

I bet 👍👍

[@Kenneth-ts7bp]

EVs are newer. They will catch fire and they are too dangerous. We need to get rid of then. Producing EVs is destroying the economy and intelligent thought.

[@alwynsmit3546]

Ok, so how long did they take to extinguish & how much water did it take to do so?

[@dcallan812]

Some fantastic information and real world data. 👍👍

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thanks 👍

[@daviddunmore7076]

A few years ago I looked out of the office window and saw a mini (Original type) on fire, When I said I saw a car on fore, a colleague looked out and said 'That's mine' The Fire brigade arrived soon after and put the fire out. The five surrounding cars were badly damaged and the cars surrounding them had less damage. altogether about a dizen cars were affected. This was an open air car park

[@frogflyer79]

The electric car fleet is still quite young, the petrol/diesel fleet much older (on average) we will have to see how the situation develops as the electric fleet ages. It would also be interesting to know if fires in petrol and diesel are reducing or increasing, with a view to assessing if design and construction standards are going in the right direction.

[@MrDaiseymay]

SO---what you are saying is---wait and see how many of these NEW, or VIRTUALLY NEW CARS, KILL PEOPLE, so that the number cruncher's can compare number's, against Cars that are NOT EV's , but likely to suffer from long mileage and lacking in sufficient Maintenance ??? These VEHICLES, that include New Coaches ( Check out the two on YT. one was parked ouside a central Parisien Hotel, as Passenger's had just left, to enter the Hotel. It went up like a Bomb. nearly catching the Hotel frontage on fire ) I would NEVER--trust a EV now. They explode, not just smoke and give a warning befor the flames errupt.

[@TheHansoost]

My thoughts exactly. Maintenance is a very important factor especially with regard to aging ICE vehicles.

[@rogerdavis7450]

Thanks for providing a balanced view.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

My pleasure!

[@chrislangton6535]

Great video. With regard to 'parking in your garage overnight'. As a lot of people will also be charging overnight, it would be interesting if this increased the possibility of a fire developing. But I would say that inherently, electric cars are less likely to catch fire

[@michaelthomas3646]

from personal note, what I think should be looked at is how many times that vehicle had been charged in a 24/48 hour period, like probably find that the number of fires started are caused by heat of charging in a 24/48 hour period, and probably explain why the number of fires has remained around the same over the passed 2 years is because most people buy them as a 2nd car, or only doing local runs with them. but driven my electric car from 1/2 way between Cardiff and Swansea, to Oxford with a 36KW/h battery, I filled up before I left by a couple of hours, it needed a charge in 3 services each way to make the distance, and then back was 2 charges. the battery was only just below the red line for temperature. so I think the number of charges or the speed of charging is a major factor in EV fires. whereas occassional charging say once a day or less frequent is why the number of fires has remained roughly the same.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

A car like a Golf E, which has a 36kWh battery, has a real world range of around 120 miles. Bridgend to Oxford is 124 miles. Why did you charge up 3 times for that journey?

[@agentcooper2417]

I did read somewhere that Liquid Nitrogen worked well as a agent to keep the heat at a manageable level in a fire 🔥 but I guess it would only work on a battery that has been designed to allow nitrogen in the 1st place ?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The problem is getting into the battery pack to cool it down but yes you’re right if liquid nitrogen could get in there it would cool it down very quickly. 👍

[@andersbrunost5328]

Good work, a lot of reliable information sources!

[@nealy2815]

Well researched review. Keep up the good work.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍👍

[@nathansmith7153]

My friend was burned alive in an ICE car. Totally agree on the click bait. The 20 times is consistent with other reports. Didn't know about the mass parking garage fire.

[@familywarr1986]

You asked what Scandinavian countries are doing about electric car fires. You failed to mention that one of their ferry companies has already banned BEVs from their ferries altogether and others are only allowing them on certain decks fitted with specialised BEV fire fighting equipment. Make no mistake, dealing with a BEV fire is no joke. You cannot play this down. The BEV decks have a system installed requiring brine to be stored and deployed at minus 20 c and they need enough capacity to fight the fire continuously for 60 minutes at full discharge. Let those figures sink in for a minute....and this is considered the minimum requirement to prevent the ruddy things from potentially sinking the ship in the event of thermal runaway. Whoever thought using eight or ten thousand torch batteries was a good way to power a car must have been stark raving mad! And yet, unbelievably, here we are...

[@bobeden5027]

new battery chemistries are much safer, hey?

[@wrex7044]

To make a fair comparison you have to compare vehicles of the same age. Also the environmental impact in form of toxic smoke the water and foam used include various dangerous chemicals makes a big difference. If you have an accident and are trapped in the car, the rapid development of this kind of fire and the extremely high temperature increase the risk of being cremated long before the rescue personnel have time to do anything.

[@Monni95]

Bigger batteries on EVs often sit lower than the petrol tank, so are more prone to fatal damages. Some ICE fires actually start from brake fluid or oil leaks instead of petrol leaks.

[@Bryanhair]

Have been a mechanic for some 50 years and part of my trade was training or teaching mechanics, I have never seen a petrol car go up in flames, but I have seen badly reapired petrol cars with protential fire hazards caused by Mechanics, loose fuel hoses or badly run fuel or wires next to hot engine parts, thus causing the fire, whereas EV can just be sitting doing nothing and burst into flames, and when more EV are in accidents and the battery gets damaged, guess what more than likely to go up in flames, an American guy was burnt to death in his slightly damages Tesla, when his foot was trapped, but killed by flames and yes this can happen in a fuel car too, but I am a user of Lipo batteries and have seen them go up in flames just minor minor damage, EV is not the way out of our problems

[@johnnyboy7459]

Thanks for taking the time to do this video and put the facts for all to see but unfortunately there are people out here who just don’t want to know. Love your TV program hope there’s more to follow.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thanks for watching!

[@user-yf7js1ew1h]

sounds like you`ve already wasted [spent] thousands buying an ev to save the planet 🤣🤣🤣

[@mattwhitlock6062]

Whilst fire safety standards are catching up the risk exposure is higher. Over time, it will drop again. Until that time, the issue as I see it is the consequence side of things: anything catching fire in close proximity to an electric car has the potential to trigger a chain reaction that causes the EV’s battery to enter thermal runaway. If it spreads to the next one and the next one etc, the fire becomes much harder to control and put out.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Thank you for giving me a tip of a report from my own country I wasn't aware of! 🙂Let me know if you want something in it translated. The data is a bit incomplete since it is based on incident reports from fire fighters/rescue services and only include incidents where the report mentions batteries/charging/hybrid etc. The incident reports have no predefined check boxes for type of fuel/drive train/battery type etc. If the responders did not know it was a hybrid that may have been left out. Somewhat surprisingly fires in BEV and PHEV seem equally likely. 1/3 BEV and 2/3 PHEV which is the same ratio as their numbers on the road. If someone has the time, energy and language skills I'm sure you can cross reference the 3400 yearly car fires with the vehicle registry to get model year and information on fuel type etc.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Cross referencing those 3400 cars would be very interesting. 👍

[@zapfanzapfan]

@@ElectricClassicCars After some more digging I found that a few years ago the number of cars intentionally burned (arson, insurance fraud...) per year were around 1400, so that leaves 2000 cars burning for other reasons. The number in the electric car summary had disregarded intentionally burned vehicles so the comparison becomes more like one 10th instead of one 20th frequency of fire in EVs.

[@daviddunmore7076]

How do LFP batteries compare to NMC for fire risk? I believe LFP may be an inherently safer chemistry.

[@marcosmith6613]

I've seen, in person, dozens of vehicle fires through 40 years of driving, have yet to see one caused by an EV. I've no doubt they happen and the issue will improve over time. Petroleum still holds the record for biggest fire/explosions/damage if you include the whole supply chain.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Yeah, I've yet to hear about a lithium train derailing and burning down a town.

[@miguelangelsimonfernandez5498]

Electric car fires are nightmare to extinguish and firefighters usually are not yet ready to extinguish them.

[@JoshuaPritt]

I wonder if you can put an expanding foam pouch in each battery module that bursts under certain temperatures. It would then completely encase the burning cells when they start to run away.

[@jayhoney2422]

Won't that's just add fuel to make thermal runaway worse

[@JoshuaPritt]

@@jayhoney2422 I was hoping there was a fireproof foam. Or something even better that turns into something that could smother the fire.

[@rightright6582]

i get the idea...fire should be controlled at that level....@@JoshuaPritt

[@goonies_never_say_die]

That piercing nozzle you mentioned is not recommended. It is unlikely that a firefighter will know which battery cells or packs are experiencing thermal runaway and even less likely that they will manage to pierce the correct ones without causing thermal runaway. The promo video also appears to show them piercing a Prius (hybrid) pack, possibly in the wrong location.

[@davidkeenan5989]

Great information, thanks.

[@richardstamper5630]

I commend you for trying to divert the fire issue away from Electric cars. I have adopted electric power in so many ways what with a full size electric tractor mower, an electric strimmer, electric hedge trimmers and two high voltage electric bikes which share similar technology to cars but I think it's more about being able to escape from a car on fire and being able to put the fire out which concerns people. Seems to me modern manufacturers want to do everything with buttons, a bit like the TV industry who stopped putting physical buttons on a set in favour of letting the remote control do all the work, basically it saves money. Old cars that you convert still have handle, a physical connections between the inside of the door and the lock itself but modern electric cars give you a buttons to open the doors which means in a failure the doors are impossible to open. In addition, if that run away fire were to start in your attached garage then kiss goodbye to your whole house, whereas, it might be possible to put out an ICE car with regular extinguishers, if not the Fire Service could. Concorde had a fabulous service record but that one disaster killed it immediately and I think it's this that concerns us folk. I have embraced electric equipment but I charge my equipment carefully, especially the mower which I will only charge away from the house. If this issue could be overcome then I think the average consumer might be more relaxed about the whole EV market.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I thought it was a legal requirement to have a mechanical door handle on modern cars irrespective of fuel type. Even if there’s also a button to open the door, just like on my wife’s Tesla M3? Unless you’re quick with a fire extinguisher an ICE car will also burn your house down.

[@Yaaayishere]

That battery pack would look great in a Rolls Royce.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

And it’ll probably end up lighter as an EV. 😉👍

[@owainbennett663]

I would like to know how the fire on the car carrier ship caught fire. Was it arson or something else. I guess we will never know.

[@spankeyfish]

Car carriers catch fire periodically, it's nothing new. Just takes one car to have an electrical fault or to break free and roll around, smashing into other cars.

[@owainbennett663]

It was a Jeep. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYekd3WgdrV3fdEsi=e1SyrzRuSADqvgnC An old 2007 Jeep.

[@across8339]

Excellent video and very informative. Left me thinking I shouldn't park my electric car near a diesel or petrol car; their thermal runaway could be far more likely.

[@andrewbaker7548]

Is there an update in the Jensen Interceptor?

[@spudproductions7606]

Coming soon 👍👍

[@tristanbased-af2159]

Electric cars (tesla specifically) are the safest cars out there. all the mass is in the bottom, so it won't roll over as fast as petrol The roofs on teslas are insanely strong Electric cars have better crumple zones since there's no engine block. Tech like autopilot can see things you might have missed.

[@tristanbased-af2159]

just some facts, yes ev's can *also* catch fire, just lilke any other car

[@calypsopiter]

Yes but fire in ev's starts and spreads insanely fast and is extremely hard to put off.

[@hansfaber9174]

I don’t know if this is also a saying in English but in Holland we say, and I fear it is, preaching for your own church. Not many of the criticasters will take notice. Never the less,this is the way to put it out there. With good arguments. 👍

[@roberttucker805]

It would be reassuring to know if all fire departments have the equipment and know how to tackle ev fires.

[@ffdtower1]

It is a national problem. There is no answer right now. The Fire Service, as a whole, is in high gear trying to form a solution but there is no magic bullet for now. The manufacturers have created a monster with no way to contain them. They have admitted they have no solution.

[@Ozvideo1959]

It would be even more reassuring if, after we are at 100% EV, that when you ring the fire department because your car is on fire, they don't respond with, "We can't attend at the moment, all our fire trucks are on charge"😏

[@ldnwholesale8552]

But none have.

[@Anomize23]

It SHOULD bea known fact NO FIRE EXTINGUISHER puts out those batteries. But hey, what does this fireman know?🤷‍♂️

[@dscarty]

The part of this that I’m interested in is the severity of the fires. Recently I watched a video in which the presenter stated lithium ion battery fires were 3 times hotter than gasoline fires. A fire within a structure at 3000° F not only would burn other adjacent vehicles but would also destroy the “car park”. Apparently concrete won’t withstand that amount of heat.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Concrete structures like multi story car parks have been collapsing because of ICE fires long before EVs came along. Petrol and diesel car fires spread more readily because as soon as the plastic gas tank melts the fire spreads in puddles and streams of fire to the surrounding vehicles. There was a recent arson fire in Germany at a Tesla showroom which shows that not all the EVs parked next to each burned. If they were ICE they would have all gone up in flames.

[@GoneToHelenBach]

​@@ElectricClassicCars Most fires in ICE cars start in the engine bay and are extinguished before the fuel tank is compromised. I've owned several cars, both petrol and diesel, and none of them had a plastic fuel tank, they were all metal. When I was a child, my mother drove a Reliant Robin, it set on fire (started in the engine bay), the entire body and interior burned to nothing, yet the fuel tank remained intact and the fuel contained within it did not combust.

[@waynethefridgemanosborne8984]

Great information Moggie, will be passing on to the doubters I know

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Glad it was helpful!

[@SickPrid3]

The difference between ICE fire and EV fire is that EV will be totaled. Where the ICE "fire" is in majority of cases a fire you can put out with your small extinguisher and fix the car for few hundred quid

[@gordonmackenzie4512]

Last vehicle fire I saw was a BMW M4 6 cylinder petrol. It was a shell by the time I passed it. Fire was a quarter of a mile from the Fire Station. Previous to that was a wee old Corsa, probably petrol. Before that a diesel double decker bus, which was down to its frame only 2 miles from Fire Station.

[@smoggydrones5664]

Interesting on the survey we’re the cars the same age as petrol cars have been around much longer and older cars are more likely to catch fire as the newer electric cars. You should only compare like for like. Great video

[@ErwinWernerTeichmann]

Very good video man! Thank you.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Glad you liked it!

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍👍

[@bunkaaa8726]

Its still quite concerning that most EV's are brand new and have been catching fire, be good to know the age of the ICE cars that caught fire because that would really put the debate to bed. However that does not ignore the severity of the fires from EV's. I'm not anti EV but you can't ignore that..

[@mstreich]

I wonder if the number of EV fires is staying flat because EV cars tend to have assisted driving features that keep them out of accidents. 5:10

[@handsofdoubt31]

Thumbs up from me for accuracy. A few things which would also have been good to mention. 1. Hybrids are around twice as likely to catch fire than ICE. Putting them something like 40 times more likely to combust than BEV. 2. BEV fires are less likely to result in injury when the car is already occupied. BEV cars have the ability to detect thermal runaway and warn the driver. My car for example will tell you to evacuate the vehicle. I'm not aware of any ICE road car which can tell you it's about to burst into flames. Unfortunately ICE car fires can start within seconds without warning and therefore with horrific consequences. 3. As the battery technology/chemistry changes, the risk of fire gets less and less. That partly explains your stats suggesting the number of cars is going up but the instance of fire is not. It's highly likely that BEV cars made in a few years will have a tiny fraction of the risk they do now.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Very good points. Thanks for your comments. 👍

[@ncc74656m]

What I would really love to see is a breakdown of what caused the fire, because obviously the big accusation is that they're just, ya know, spontaneously exploding because of course batteries are obscenely dangerous and all that. Unlike 10-20 gallons of gasoline. But for example, take accidents out of the equation - or cross compare likelihood of fire due to accident. Also, the question of age - cross compare the vehicles made within, say, the last 10 years and account per capita.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The report does break the numbers down a little further e.g. whether the cars were driving or stationary. I would have also liked to have seen the pure EVs extrapolated out from the hybrids as the EVs are much less likely to combust than a hybrid. Age would be interesting but considering that there’s millions of new ICE vehicles presently getting recalled due to fire safety issues I don’t think the stats would be skewed that much, EVs would still be far less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles. 👍

[@ncc74656m]

@@ElectricClassicCars Completely agreed with the conclusion, the point is just to go "Here's conclusive data. Now when you're arguing we know it's in bad faith." Which of course it is. People are so disingenuous about this.

[@severnsea]

@@ElectricClassicCars Age is a very major consideration that needs to be taken into account. Assuming that most EVs are probably less than 5 years old, you can't say they're less likely to catch fire when compared with ICEs that could and in many cases will be twice as old or 3, 4 or 5 times that age. It's also never mentioned that diesels are less likely to catch fire as it doesn't burn easily, and both petrol and diesel now have fuel shut off systems in the event of an accident. In fact most fires in ICE cars are caused by, believe it or not, electrical faults. I don't know which are more likely to catch fire and neither does anybody else, and I don't even know why we have to take sides or why EV fanatics feel that they have to defend every comment that's made against them, whether true or not, but it doesn't help your cause when we get comments and claims stating that they are all "facts", they are all "conclusive", how the media are always against them and so on, when the reality is there are a lot of issues with EVs that do need serious consideration that are usually dismissed or just put down as excuses by the EV contingency, who it has to be said, in most cases won't hear a single bad word said against them.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

@@ElectricClassicCars according to US figures I heard it was (1) BHEV (2) ICE (3) BEV.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

@@severnsea for the very first yet unlikely EV fire in a car park, run the other way: United Firefighters Union Australia 11/03/23: "We've already had a situation in Victoria where two firefighters suffered cobalt poisoning after attending an EV fire, and have now been permanently disabled as a result". Lithium-ion battery fires release toxins such as carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride and cobalt. These toxins were particularly dangerous for firefighters because they were absorbed through the skin and clothing could not protect against them. John Cadogan's one of the few who really mentions the risks in a rational way, with the odd expletive.

[@Knott1701]

The batteries coming on line and I hope catch on, Sodium Ion and Solid state are even safer than the current Lithium ion. Apparently simply can't do a thermal run away. Doen't prevent a short setting fire to the carpet of things like that.

[@chrisbolton5461]

Love these videos. Well presented and researched. Wish I had the funds to get you guys to convert a classic for me. Blazing a trail though that we will all benefit from.

[@johnbarker5009]

Much is made of the fact that EVs can catch fire even when they're not running. I have news...ICE vehicles can catch fire when they're not running, given the right failure. I owned one which was recalled for a failure which was independent of whether the car was running.

[@allankoivu3263]

If EV's were so dangerous they would be uninsurable. My Chevy Bolt EV has cost me a bit less in car insurance premiums than my previous Toyota RAV4 ICE.

[@spudproductions7606]

Insurance companies are aware of the lower fire risk for EV. 👍👍

[@Anomize23]

@@spudproductions7606 yeah haha quite the opposite with HOME INSURANCE NOW. What a tradeoff…

[@threeballedtomcat9380]

The percentages of ICE vs EV fire probability matter a lot less when you factor in that a bottle of water will put out the fire in an ICE car- the battery fire in an EV is far more difficult to extinguish and far more toxic. The damage caused by those EV batteries going into thermal runaway in parking areas , car lots , etc are getting a lot more news coverage. That recent Dutch ship fire is a prime example, the ship and contents were nearly a total loss.

[@michaelgoode9555]

Petrol and diesel cars 20 times more likely to self combust .... That will upset poor old Geoff.

[@linuxmonkey]

That's a very short-sighted analysis. One thing I learned about being an analyst with big banks is that if you stare at the numbers long enough, the numbers will change. (Credits to my former boss - it was his words) Comparing number of cars caught on fire vs ownerships population is already a skewed and biased data representation. ICE being used all over the industries, commercial, private, heavy haulage, heck it's even used for transportation of dangerous goods. What should be done here, is to take the number of accidents that involved in an EV versus how many from that catches fire. Why does it matter? because if u just take the numbers without breaking it down, even without the stats we already know that we are likely to die in an ICE vehicle vs EV because the numbers of crashes involving ICE vehicles are definitely higher than EV. Is that a fair comparison? Just putting that thought out there so consumers can be smart about it. Remember that big companies has been paying millions and billions into lobbying "research" and gov agencies to make it looks safe and this has been happening forever from banking, oil&gas to fund managers who own the stakes in them. I'm betting the same with this EV trend. I probably don't have any proof yet but one day the scandal will be revealed. Buy EV if u want but the numbers all over the news are now being represented in a biased manner to make it look "safe". Well, trust me or dont. I'm just another random guy on the internet. Wth. 🥱🤷

[@alanpowell24]

Great / informative video from a real expert!

[@user-ro9fk7xc9y]

Everyone seem to miss the point that on average EV drive fewer km annually than ICE vehicles. A fair comparison is fires/billion km. Also most EVs are less than 3 years old while there are many 10-20 years old ICE vehicles on the road. Maybe older EV burn more often, we just don't know yet?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Pinfa (Phosphorous, Inorganic and Nitrogen Flame Retardants Association) suggested around 55 fires per billion miles traveled in ICEs compared to 5 fires per billion miles traveled for EVs. A recent study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

[@user-ro9fk7xc9y]

@ElectricClassicCars The per sales numbers are totally nonsense. The 1:10 ratio is about right, but it is still comparing newer EVs to all ICE vehicles, so still flawed.