Electric Car Range | Edmunds' EV Range Super Test | Tesla Model Y & Model 3, Ford Mustang Mach-E

[@edmundscars]

What range should you expect from your EV? Read the full story at Edmunds.com/TeslaChallenge and stay up-to-date with the latest EV range test results at Edmunds.com/range

[@ljfinger]

The last time I owned a conventional car that had less than 400 miles of range, it was built in 1972. Since then, it's been 425 (1988), 400 (1991), 600 (2004 - HEV), 640 (2017 - PHEV). EVs need MORE range than conventional cars due to the sparsity of chargers and the slowness of charging when out on the open road. Further, in my conventional, HEV or PHEV cars, I generally preserve 150 miles of range or more at refueling (100 when I stay in-town), to handle emergencies such as closed roads due to accidents, weather or fires. If you charge to 80% (to preserve battery longevity and to avoid the slowness of the taper charge at the end of the charge), and preserve 150 miles of range on the open road, you basically can't go anywhere in these cars because chargers are father apart than 80% * range - 150 miles.

[@keithfranklin214]

@@ljfinger Conversely they dont because most people charge every day at home. Rarely do most people drive long distances. You trade off the weekly stop for gas for a longer road trip because you make more supercharge stops. Would never in a million years trade never getting in car in the AM in January and discover I need to stop for gas in freezing temperature for a shorter (time) road trip.

[@ljfinger]

@@keithfranklin214 Yes, but that's the issue. When I'm in-town my 25 miles of EV range in my PHEV is enough for 98% of days and over 99% of miles traveled. So toting around an over half-ton battery when I only need 10% of it is wasteful. Yet, out on the open road, that half-ton battery is too small. So there's this problem - in town 60 miles of range covers 100% of my driving and out-of-town I need 750 miles of range. But I don't want to carry 750 miles of battery when I don't need it because the weight costs efficiency in rolling resistance and in acceleration losses, not to mention being more expensive than an entire hybrid or PHEV car.

[@rj8u]

Where is the total distance travel data for all cars driving on a 65 mph test loop untill each car died? You guys didn't mentioned this on the video.

[@ljfinger]

@@keithfranklin214 Oh - it's not a "shorter (time)" road trip. I've been on 5 road trips since I got my PHEV in 2017. All 5 contained at least one leg that was not possible in any EV. Two of those were over 600 miles between *any* charging station outside tossing an extension cord through the hotel window which, as you know, doesn't charge fast enough to do much on a long road trip. That's the "price" of going off the beaten path. But that's where the fun stuff tends to be.

[@tonyLA24]

As a Tesla stock holder, I rather the press stay honest and not give into corporate pressure. How else do you improve but by being challenged. Good job Edmunds!

[@henryroque2613]

My Tesla Model 3 AWD long range was rated at 310 miles range when purchased in 2018. Realistically I get 260 miles range when driving on the highway in the Bay Area around 60-70F ambient temps. Good to know I have more of a buffer than previously thought should I approach 0 miles left on the range indicator. Thanks for getting the data Edmunds!

[@rjherche]

Yeah but you have supercharger network not some patchy collection of CCS chargers

[@garenson]

That's what I took away from this too. If I have to, I can comfortably drive my Model 3 to 0 or even a couple km in the red, without having to fear that I get stranded. I drove my Model 3 Performance once about 3-5km past 0 km range inadvertantly (the only time I really had range anxiety), due to a public charger being out of order. At the time I noticed, that it still drove faster than 60mph. Accelearation suffered, but was still sufficient. Good to know you should get very nervous if the available speed drops below 60mph.

[@deepneasy]

EPA test includes various driving conditions to mimic everyday life, and its average speed is 48 mph. Drive the same car at 65 mph or up, the range will decrease and this is very normal (energy = dist. times force). Here the main force is the drag. Most M3 owners use 80% to 20% (180 miles) every day. This is why the superchargers are spaced about 150 miles along the interstate highway.

[@cybertruck4988]

You can still drive around 40 miles under 0 mile mark

[@Orielparadise]

@@rjherche lol depends where you live. The VAG ionity network in Europe is actually larger than Tesla’s now.

[@JonathanHair]

Great test, but can you share what range each car went at 65 mph? This is valuable because it is a head to head test, done on the same day, in the same conditions.

[@Amuzic_Earth]

Yeah I was expecting that...no mention...strange.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

Duh. They did. You just have to click the first link in the description to see the chart. It's a big chart, you would need to zoom in, in a video to see it all. He said this. Pay attention.

[@JonathanHair]

@@copperkeyracing6167 No... That is the chart from their normal range test loop. All performed on different days, in not identical conditions. NOT from this 65 mph controlled test. Pay attention.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

@@JonathanHair ok thx

[@AmericanBusinessman422]

Why the hell didn't they mention this? Edmunds has always been amateurs

[@DavidGarciajrtx]

Range tests are the videos the people want to see!!!

[@santiagovilla6219]

is it me or the title of this video is missleading, and do not back up the report they put out about a month ago that was made btw without any sort of control for testing

[@salvadorcoling8403]

Do they really knows how to test any cars? Very doubtful and idiotic entity.

[@DavidGarciajrtx]

Na, I have a model x 2020 lr plus and I never get 351 range

[@zahraalavi299]

@@DavidGarciajrtx hill

[@jrwaters943]

I wish you guys would have tested the Kona or Niro. My Kona has been amazingly efficient (usually around 4-5miles per kWh) and far exceeds the advertised range in all but high speed highway trips with large elevation changes or in cold weather. Our similarly rated Bolt travels between 75-110 miles less per full charge. 😳 Edit: I see you actually did test them but they weren’t mentioned heavily in this video. Nice to see confirmation that the Kona has the similar range as much more expensive EVs.

[@carlmelville]

Better. But still not right. Please update your table to reflect the new range data. Also, there is a range differential based on much cooler weather in your Tesla-only test (your rep was wearing three layers of clothing). This delta alone could create a 12% range decrease vs. optimum conditions, and 6% less than the 66 degrees from your first test.

[@wineberryred]

You are being very confusing by talking about the miles that exceeds the EPS range. Why don't you talk about the total range, that is what the manufacturer can control, the EPA controls what the EPA range is. I think your gripe is with how the EPA sets the range instead of how each manufacture builds the car.

[@willaerley7140]

I’ve read that automakers dictate to the EPA what the range of the vehicle is based on the very detailed EPA test speeds and conditions. (slow driving in ideal conditions). The EPA then confirms the reported range is possible by performing the same test. If the EPA comes up with a lower range number, than that is used. However, if they get a higher range, they use the manufacturers claim. (like the Taycan). If Porsche wants to underestimate the range to allow for more spirited driving, they can. They just can’t overestimate it based on the EPA test.

[@martin3316]

🎯!

[@justicepool]

What was the total range each vehicle traveled to empty during this test?

[@ymcpa73]

6:55 on the video shows that.

[@tylerlever7733]

@@ymcpa73 those are the same exact ranges they posted in their original test. We want the ranges from this test.

[@kamilb8232]

This test was a 65mph loop which isn't representative of real life or even the method the EPA measures it. This was just the most efficient and controlled way to measure how much additional range do these cars have past 0mi of indicated range relative to each other. It's a closed of test track that they can run the battery beyond 0 without embarrassing the manufacturer on a public road of needing to put their car on a tow truck. They said they did that on the Edmunds EV loop for the Teslas (reporting 11.1 and 17.3 mi of extra range past 0%) but that's in the Teslas that they purchased and not borrowed.

[@cw4953]

2nd this request, the original test has diff ambient temps, they should include the extra data points from this test

[@abraxastulammo9940]

@@kamilb8232 We would appreciate a simple answer to see how those cars compare in this test.

[@MachE_VLOG]

I can confirm that so far, my Mustang Mach-E has been averaging about 300 miles of range in a combo of highway, city, and mountain roads. It's only been 3 weeks, but it's been better than the EPA estimate.

[@cesarmadrigal5867]

You change to 100% all the time?

[@MachE_VLOG]

@@cesarmadrigal5867 Nope. But it is easy to do the math. 3.5 miles per kWH times 88. No one in the real world drives from 100% to 0%. And only someone completely insane would drive to dead empty.

[@thelarry383]

@@cesarmadrigal5867 Only Tesla lets you charge to actual 100%. Every other manufacturer has a software safeguard in so that if you charge to 100%, you're not actually at max battery capacity. This is all to preserve battery life over time.

[@JesseSightler]

@@thelarry383 Tesla also has a buffer, even when charged to 100%. Its just that the buffer is smaller.

[@samclark3370]

Do you have the AWD Extended Range? I’m heavily leaning towards a Mach E but thinking about going with the AWD Standard Range since I don’t take many road trips at all and most driving is city driving. If you are getting 300 with the AWD ER then it’s possible that the AWD SR could possibly get 220-230 vs the 211 estimated by Ford.

[@JAM_2024]

Total range from full battery to empty would have been useful.

[@toyotaprius79]

But let's not forget that every day trips should only be charged up to 80-85% for cell health

[@Frank71]

All this shows why people are skeptical about EVs. "...Only be charged up to 80%-85% for cell health", Tesla says our range includes everything beyond 0%.

[@Frank71]

They charged them overnight to full. 1:25. 1:52

[@RidgesPhoto]

So, how far did each car go total on the test track? You only give the total for the EV loop.

[@OlJackBurton]

Around 7:00 it shows on the graph with the blue and gray bars. They go over it pretty quickly, so you might have to pause. The Tesla 3 LR went the furthest with 345 miles and the Mach E went 304 miles and the ID4 went 287 miles. The Tesla S performance went 318 miles. The Tesla X LR went 294 miles, the Tesla Y performance went 263 miles and the Tesla 3 performance went 256 miles. The "budget" Tesla 3 SR was in butt naked last place at 232 miles. They didn't test the Tesla Y LR. Other cars: Kona went 315, Niro 285, Bolt 277, ETron 238, Leaf 237. The Taycan 4S with the smaller battery was in second at 323 miles. They then noted that these should be theoretical ranges, as you should never drive your EV down to less than 10 miles left on the computer and you shouldn't charge over 90%...

[@kenquinty1773]

@@OlJackBurton Half of these cars weren't even run on the test track.

[@McCarterly]

@@OlJackBurton That chart shows how the cars performed in their December test of 60% city and 40% highway. Not the 65 MPH test track results

[@RidgesPhoto]

@@OlJackBurton I don't think so. I think that is showing the distance they did on the EV driving test (not the 65mph loop) with the extra buffer miles calculated from the 65mph loop added to it.

[@boppzoli]

Please share with us the overall max ranges from this particular test. Please 🙏🙏🙏

[@alyssapuryear2006]

I wish they could have used a Model Y LR instead of Performance.

[@jonathanfields4ever]

Yeah, those silly wheels eat so much range

[@reho7387]

What I really appreciate from any forum is objective information. Thank you for doing that.

[@Mellowyellow8888]

they have to edit the charts.. i saw one of the charts they still have one of the tesla model range evaluated at 54C while the rest is atleast 10C higher in temp. given this.. this is not equal footing in terms of a comparison.. we are aware that temperature has an affect on battery performance.

[@SRMohamedHussain]

Personally, I think It would be more useful to get a "average minimum mileage" at ~Standard Temperature Pressure & STP+10C° & STP-10C°... Rather than just Estimated Range From Manufacturers not at eco or sport modes though... Normal modes of setting

[@77kenneth]

This is something you’re cousin carwow has done I said cousin because you flew Matt Watson over here to drive some American cars

[@wrenfrancis3890]

carwow results are much fair

[@ozoneA6]

@@wrenfrancis3890 correct 💯👊

[@toyotaprius79]

You're missing out on "Electrifying". They are phenomenally better craic than whatever carwow is now

[@jbar_85]

My boyfriends Tesla never gets the estimated range at all. They need to update the software to reflect the outside temperature, distance including traffic, city & highway stops, and also and the AC system set temperature.

[@dannyabe6452]

All cars considered I'd say the Tesla Model 3 long range is the best EV for the money. I'd like to see a range test of the Tesla Model Y long range.

[@garenson]

The main reason, why performance models suffer a bit in range are the less aerodynamic rims and stickier sport tires. Sport tires are way to much fun on Tesla Performance vehicles. I even put Michaelin Pilot Cup Sport II semislicks on mine. I would expect Model Y and 3 Long Range to sit within 5% of each others range for now. When the new 4680 Model Y hit the market this summer out of Gig Berlin that might change in favor of the Model Y.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

Well, some people are willing to pay extra for a performance instead, but for range, yes.

[@AMan-he9sz]

Wrong. Range is just one attribute of a vehicle.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Just go to the Bjørn Nyland YT channel. 1000km (600mile) real world distance/ charge tests. No "run to empty" BS. All on proper spreadsheets.

[@mjhowson2389]

I went and read the original test that prompted this video. Porsche should reconsider their published numbers. They are doing a disservice to the Taycan. That vehicle regularly far exceeds its EPA rating by everyone that tests it. In regards to range in general, EV charging stations aren’t anywhere near as common as gas stations. So, when taking a long trip, a 10-25 mile range difference between competitors shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Chances are you will need to charge much sooner based on charger availability. Unlike an ICE car, you can’t drive to near empty and then have your choice of several fueling stations to choose from. So, choosing between something like the Mach-E vs the Model Y shouldn’t be based on range. We are getting closer to the day where range won’t be a big issue when deciding which EV to buy. Depending on your use case, any vehicle getting 250+ could easily be your one and only vehicle.

[@ColorfulCommentary]

IMO Porsche underestimates their range numbers because the know how owners of Porches drive. If you buy a Taycan to drive 65 on the highway you are in the minority.

[@aribloch]

@@ColorfulCommentary and there is 75mph vs avg of 75mph, with spikes much higher (likely how most people would drive taycan)

[@Sean-lz1zz]

Ambient temperature on the cars tested had a 23 degree difference. In your test, you make it seem like they were all driven at the same time. As stated in the edmunds test page: "Ambient temperature - how cold or hot it is outside - matters a whole lot" Porsche driven at 73 degrees. --- temperature effects range 100% of the time. model 3 driver at 53 degrees. Edmunds sucks clear bias.

[@josedelacruz256]

So you guys didn't test the Model Y Long Range AWD which is the most common purchase........?????

[@Sean-lz1zz]

clear bias, tested porsche in 73 degrees temps, and model 3 in 53 degree temps.

[@kyolml]

why don't you show the total distance each car driven to halt? Do we add these after 0 indicated mileage to your original test numbers?

[@kamilb8232]

No. It will be closer to the 11.1 or 17.3 miles they measured later part of of video with with Edmunds EV loop. That's more representative of real life and method the EPA measures it. The 65kph loop was just a test to compare how many miles post 0% battery charge each manufacturer allows for. I reckon the real reason they don't show the total distances because they don't want to confuse people of that being the real range because it's not. Also the 65kph let them drive even other manufacturers cars to a complete standstill in private. I'm sure Ford doesn't want media pictures showing the brand new MachE stranded on a California freeway being pulled on a tow truck. The Teslas they ran to dry on the city loop were their own purchased cars.

[@douglasalanthompson]

Edmunds. Great video and test. The one ev that I have not seen any show test is the US Nissan Leaf S+. With less weight and smaller rims, it significantly out ranges (and is cheaper) its heavier Leaf Plus SL+, which is what is always tested. Test it and you will have an exclusive.

[@drulifson]

I have an ev, running it at 65 creates a lot of aero drag and reduces range quickly. EPA runs from 30-60 mph in a specific protocol which differs greatly from you driving fast in a large circle in the desert. I bet your gas cars don’t meet EPA mpg rating either. Give EVs a break. They are awesome and gas cars...

[@cobrachannel100]

That is exactly my point. EPA is also to a fault here. It is because they are inconsistent when it comes to gas vs ev. For gas cars, they break it down city/highway/combined whereas for evs they dont. Hence, all this confusion for these guys. They test pretty much highway mileage and compare against EPAs mixed cycle (I am pretty certain, but it is only speculation because of the lack of breakdown by EPA). Porsche will always be better at higher speeds due to the 2 speed tranny. Therefore, the numbers are better than EPAs mixed cycle when these guys test it on highway only. Teslas will be the opposite due to them mainly performing better in city with regen breaking and so forth.

[@davidp2707]

My gas car exceeds epa.

[@wingerrrrrrrrr]

@@cobrachannel100 EPA is the one that begs the real question. If the numbers don't match what is typical, is the testing that EPA came up with not a good representation of what consumers can realistically expect, or did they get submitted ringers from the manufacturers that outperformed production line vehicles? Either way, EPA would be culpable, if they were unable to control things to get realistic results. Maybe it's a project for Project Farm to come up with better test methodology 🙃

[@robertriquelmy7193]

Leave the tables up rather than so much face time

[@keithfranklin214]

Video isnt clear. Seems like you didnt retest all the cars, but then at the end you evaluated the Tesla's not shown in the video again.

[@kamilb8232]

They retested their own EV loop with their own cars they purchased. I reckon companies like Ford that just launched their MachE doesn't want media photos showing their brand new EV vehicle being towed on a California freeway after running beyond 0% range. The only allowed this test because it's on a closed private track.

[@usa-ev]

How could you do a range test and not include the King, Tesla Model S Long Range? Over 400 miles claimed, would be good to see...

[@Sean-lz1zz]

they're clearly biased

[@copperkeyracing6167]

What Sean said, or they don't have access to one that's still on the road working fine.

[@Sean-lz1zz]

@@copperkeyracing6167 check out there stats on their linked webpage. They say ambient temperature effects range, but they tested in vastly different temperatures. 50 degrees for model 3, and 73 degrees for Taycan.

[@darrenkrehoff5200]

@@Sean-lz1zz if ambient temperature has a dramatic impact on range, these vehicles would be nearly useless in the South.

[@Sean-lz1zz]

@@darrenkrehoff5200 It does, that is stated from edmunds. Go read the results and Q&A. Warmer temp would have better range.

[@randompenguin97]

I think one great point that you guys missed at the end of the video is that no one ever runs their gas cars down to 0 miles, so if you take that same thought and apply it to ev’s they make more sense.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

Ummm. That makes Tesla an even worse offender, because there is even less miles you can safely, without long term battery damage, use the car.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@copperkeyracing6167 Ummm. In every run/ charge/ run, real world distance test I've seen, Tesla wins.

[@GabrieleCannata]

So what do you prefer: an efficient EV or a less efficient one but with more conservative specifications?

[@royhoynes2787]

I would like the one that gave me the true range im looking for and the looks and quality. Never bought a gas car out from only how efficient it was.

[@f4st3r36]

I wonder if it was a more true to city driving test if the results would be different. If there were variances in regen efficiency you could have a car that runs longer in your daily traffic conditions even if it doesn’t last as long at a standard cruising speed.

[@llaumann]

The ranges would certainly be longer at slower speeds. I have been driving a Nissan LEAF for 10 years. My range increases by 30% in my city driving commute vs. highway driving to another town on the freeway. My average speed on my city commute is 15 MPH. On the freeway my speed is 60 MPH.

[@DennisCW]

Who's needs range when you can plug in everywhere, oh wait

[@darrenkrehoff5200]

Plug in and wait 8 hours. What if your trip is 600 miles? That now takes three days to complete. Until range dramatically improves, or charging times dramatically reduce, these vehicles are just gimmicks.

[@10melvis]

@@darrenkrehoff5200 it takes about 30 to 40 minutes to get 200 mile range at a tesla supercharger

[@darrenkrehoff5200]

@@10melvis unless I'm mistaken, there isn't a vast network of tesla superchargers across the country. I'm open to being proven wrong. I don't know of a single charging station anywhere in New Mexico. And in Texas you can drive for 200 miles without seeing another city.

[@kedaruss]

@@darrenkrehoff5200 google "a better route planner", punch two places and let it show you the route.

[@darrenkrehoff5200]

@@kedaruss hmmm. More than I figured there were, but still not many, and certainly not widespread. Are these only compatible with Tesla vehicles?

[@Rocco_Speranza]

This is actually a really good test. As a Tesla fan, but only real complaint and this goes for all cars in the test is that wheel size wasn't distinguished. That can make a huge difference in range. Standard range model 3 would had passed the test had it used 18" aero wheels instead of 19" sport wheels.

[@ymcpa73]

now I would like to see you guys do a test similar to what carwow did in the UK. Take all those cars on your list out on the highway at the same time and drive them till they die. That would be a true real world test using the same road with the same weather conditions. Carwow was pretty much all highway. You should mix some street driving in there as well. You would switch drivers at certain intervals to even out the possibility that driving style is affecting the results.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

No. No EV driver will ever play "charger chicken" (willingly). A "Real world" test (in the UK) is. Pick 2 points beyond the range of all cars at random. Let's say Bournemouth to Newcastle comes "out of the hat" Start at 100% 2 drivers per car. 30 minute (min) stop at some point between 12:00- 14:00 for "lunch" "10% over speed limit". Let the car navigation choose the route (!) ........ See who gets there first. See which car is more efficient. Charging cost. Log charging issues. ........ The same test should translate to Europe/ USA.

[@rb8049]

Range anxiety? Our family has only Ben driving a LR M3 for 3 years. Never range anxiety. And we have taken long interstate trips even to the middle of the desert. Not once an issue. We save time charging at home. The few 20min stops to charge on long trips has never been inconvenient. There may be a point of this video and this points to better standardization of the EPA range by specifying more requirements.

[@Cjdergrosse]

I have an EV and charge over night so range really isn't an issue, but I'm glad someone does these kinds of tests, it holds manufacturers to account if their range doesnt meet EPA. I live in SoCal but I feel like the EPA test should be 80mph at 32F/0C, and when the car stops, that's the EPA range. That way people back east would have a more accurate prediction of range.

[@josephray6454]

@edmunds so what is the overall max range of all the vehicles from this test? Like all they did was add the miles post zero to the range the vehicles achieved from the old test. But the old test was not the same route or conditions for each of the cars... better yet why would they do that when they literally measured the cars distance traveled in this test when all factors were the same? Seems suspicious that they wouldn’t post the range traveled in this test but the only thing they showed is the post zero battery range. Edmunds looks to be tweaking the perception of everything to be questions Tesla and makes it seem like Tesla is being disingenuous when they just want legitimate controlled testing

[@iowgtr]

This is why I ignore Edmunds, and just enjoy my M3 LR.

[@Anthonysk9]

Range should be tested in 2 ways. One…… strictly in the city, and two…… strictly Highway.

[@courcheval]

Edmunds=Honest. No bullshitting.

[@arunantony3207]

Would it be possible to test a Tesla model y long range here ?

[@Gadgetpimp]

why are you comparing a model 3 LR to model Y P??

[@ymcpa73]

It's what they had available.

[@yoyomo777]

Do you really expect us to believe you couldn't get a hold of a 2020 long range Model S? Why use performance Tesla's in a range test? The Teslas are driven when it's 60deg vs 75 for the Porsche? What kind of 'fair' testing is this? Edmunds = biased garbage.

[@mortenkrogh8599]

In the worlds biggest EV range test in Norway last summer, all Teslas exeeded the WLTP numbers (as did most other EVs too). And the WLTP number is always higher than the EPA.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

They must have drove them at 80kph, much slower than 65mph

[@mortenkrogh8599]

@@copperkeyracing6167 normal traffic, normal driving. From city driving to 110km highway speed.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

Could be the cold temperatures in Norway then. IDK

[@mortenkrogh8599]

@@copperkeyracing6167 they did the same test in the winter, and then no cars achieved the WLTP numbers of course.

[@preet6936]

good detailed video

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Not realistic

[@whattheschmidt]

Good info for those scared of making the move to an EV. The reality is I have never been worried about the range on my car as I can plug it in whenever I need to. If you have a garage/driveway and install a 240V outlet, you are set imo. Of course a national charging network so you can go where you want to on trips a couple times a year is needed to if it's your only vehicle, which left me with getting a Tesla. Zero worries or regrets, I just plug the vehicle in.

[@wingerrrrrrrrr]

What's the peak current drawn by the charger when on 120V vs 240VAC? is that something you can configure for individual circumstances? Is it able to use a standard household outlet with a 15 or 20A breaker for low rate charging?

[@whattheschmidt]

@@wingerrrrrrrrr yes, it comes with the standard connection to a 120v outlet. If 15 amp, it will pull 12amp continuous, if 20, 16 amp continuous. This is slow and can take over 2 days is charging from low to near full.

[@mundoracer]

What was the ambient temperature during all of the various tests?

[@Sean-lz1zz]

porsche 73 degrees, model S 53 degrees

[@AS-xy7ud]

make in the future more objective tests....., so tesla finally met epa ratings, for months u were trying to prove it didnt

[@copperkeyracing6167]

Tesla on average are overrated by 17 miles or 5% according to the results, that's a failure.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@copperkeyracing6167 I'll bet they were the most efficient for battery size in the test?

[@megashadow1390]

My question is, why do you keep using performance model y on a RANGE test, and where is the Model S Long Range? Or is this more of a 'more affordable' bracket? Since you brought up Porsche i wouldn't think so

[@raphymartinez]

No. This is a , let’s find ways to poke holes in Tesla, kind of video

[@davidp2707]

They could have done the same with Ford and got the longest range version of it. No really they explained why they used that model y. Because that's what they had

[@megashadow1390]

@@davidp2707 well a more accurate and proper comparison doesn't deserve to suffer because they opted to buy the performance version with higher power consumption and lower mileage. My point its not a fair test, they should get all the longest range versions of all models and test those, this is very much all over the place

[@nihongobenkyoshimasu3190]

Typically no one will charge at 100% and drive until the car drive, because of the risk of damaging the battery and the need of a tow truck. I would be very interested if Edmund extract the range between 90% and 10% for each car. This would be more a typical range to know how far I can safely drive from my home to a weekend cabin without any charging stop.

[@martin3316]

Well said. 🎯!

[@ien2023]

Test all you want, what really matter is your own real world driving and the availability of fast charging station, something other car company lacks.

[@kamilb8232]

I don't think you understand what a controlled test is. The whole point is to remove different drivers as a factor. That's why they did this 65kph loop with constant speed and rotating drivers.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

@@kamilb8232 65mph, not 41mph=65kph. I agree otherwise

[@tylerlever7733]

Why are you making the results so convoluted? What were the ranges for this particular test? It looks like this was just a test to see how far they went after 0 and added those numbers onto your earlier flawed test.

[@kamilb8232]

This test was a 65mph loop which isn't representative of real life or even the method the EPA measures it. This was just the most efficient and controlled way to measure how much additional range do these cars have past 0mi of indicated range relative to each other. It's a closed of test track that they can run the battery beyond 0 without risking the drivers of being stranded or in danger on public roads. Nothing about their previous test was flawed.

[@alexjefferson8981]

So to summarize. The long range variants probably exceed EPA range but cars geared for performance don’t. I think that makes actually makes sense Edmunds.

[@wildimpo]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say edmond doesn't like Tesla's

[@raphymartinez]

No ad money from Tesla

[@ernestsco]

LOL

[@hchchc22]

Tesla uses EPA's 5-cycle testing procedure to calculate its vehicles' correction factors while other companies use EPA's 2-cycle testing procedure. As a result, Tesla's official EPA range numbers can appear slightly inflated compared to other manufacturers.

[@bruintoo]

Why did you not include the one that won the most awards? The Jaguar I-PACE?

[@carlmelville]

31 million Edmunds visitors per month spending an average of eight minutes each on the site. Incredible. That is an advertiser's dream. That's easily mid-six figures per month using CPM or CPC rate models. Tesla spends zero on advertising. Do the math. (clarification: I have used Edmunds for years and I trust them to shoot straight - but their customers are not their visitors. Their advertisers are their real customers. You have to take care of your customers)

[@pnketia]

I 100% agree with you on that. It's not just Edmunds that caters to the OEM ICE vehicle manufacturer's advertising dollars but CNBC (aka CNBS) does the same. FAKE NEWS all over the place.

[@AMan-he9sz]

@@pnketia None as fake as Fox - except for OAN

[@bikesqump]

I luckily haven't ever needed to test how far past 0 my Model 3 goes, I have driven down to 2 miles left once when I missed my charging exit due to construction zones... IDK, I just drive it full send on road trips and stop about every 2+ hours to charge (and discharge...) and have been fine. Normal driving, I charge once a week basically... much less this last year working from home.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

This doesn't work in Texas roadtrips, we can drive 900miles in one direction and still be in Texas. My road trips are typically over 500 miles each. No way an electric is going to work.

[@bikesqump]

@@copperkeyracing6167 google "tesla trip planner" or go to abetterrouteplanner.com and you will see your misunderstanding. If you hate large suvs and love driving an egg, Aptera can go 1000miles on 1 charge, just sayin

[@darrenkrehoff5200]

@@bikesqump does the Aptera even have a trunk? Great, I can do a road trip, but I can't pack a bag. How does that work?

[@copperkeyracing6167]

@@bikesqump umm,,there is no chargers in small towns across the vastness that is Texss, and Teslas are bad cars as it is (according to consumer reports, right at midpack as an automaker which is not acceptable for me), and you want mee to look at EV automaker I've never heard of??? No thx.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

@@bikesqump Find me a charger between Lubbock TX and Albuquerque NM. 350 miles apart. Not going to make it, when I go visit family there. Edit: it's dead, vast, and broke in those towns. Never seen a charger/EV in those areas. Edit2: Thx for the link. I got curious and looked it up. My trip would no longer be a direct route, take a detoure to hit a charger, and take an additional two hrs. Not impossible, but would take 50% longer than had I used an ICE.

[@carlossilva1477]

I wish we would just focus on usable battery capacity in kWh and average efficiency in kWh/m or m/kWh. Total “range” is pointless cause of all the factors. Just focus on efficiency and battery capacity. If you have enough battery for 99% of your daily driving, you’ll be fine.

[@kamilb8232]

0:19 or their website

[@tracykarinp]

Why did you perform the *Real World Tests* just with Tesla's and not other manufacturers. Also, your test included a 2018 Tesla - what's with that? How many miles on the 2018 and how was it driven on a daily basis? You used brand new cars from all manufacturers, but included used Tesla's as well - not a fair comparison with the older models.

[@kamilb8232]

Did you even watch the video? They did do "Real World Test" other cars. They show the results right in the beginning of the video and it's on their website. They clearly stated they received a brand new, just a week old, Tesla for their 65mph loop test. Just for fun they also included the older Tesla they own as well. Not to mention, they stated that even their used Tesla matched the range performance when they first time tested when it was new. Now I presume you are referring to "Real World Test" at 5:45. That's only to test beyond the 0% mark to show that real life range will probably be worse than the 65mph loop. But the point is that certain Teslas struggle with their EPA range regardless if you add the ideal or real life range you'd get past 0% battery life. On the other hand, most manufacturers match or exceed EPA range without even needing to go beyond 0%. Complete fair comparison actually.

[@tracykarinp]

@@kamilb8232 Yes I did watch the entire video and so misleading! Here's an analysis of Edmunds test by an expert! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZLCqJlqet9_nbs

[@kamilb8232]

@@tracykarinp Expert named "Tesla Daily" No confirmation bias there at all eh? While he is right the test does not exactly replicate the EPA cycle, it is still fair comparison because they used other vehicles in this test. He is defensive and criticizing Edmunds testing methodology because it does not 1:1 replicate the EPA cycle, yet still fails to recognize the irrelevance of that argument because in these same tests most manufacturers significantly exceed the EPA figures. Edmunds isn't the only one that reports this either. Carwow and Car and Driver also reported being far off reaching the EPA figures with their owns tests with Teslas. The gist of this is that despite EPA figures showing Tesla having such a high range, in the real world you're unlikely to reach them. On the other hand, other manufacturers report a more worse case cycle and customers are more likely to reach those targets. This should also be no surprise because it's well documented that Tesla reports their range much differently than other OEMs to the EPA. Everyone else takes a 30% adjustment factor hit by the EPA. Tesla does less. It's why it's easier to hit EPA targets with other vehicles than the Tesla.

[@RichardJoashTan]

Since I am fond of the Ford Mustang Mach-E this video has taught me that the real world electric range exceeds the EPA range.

[@johnpaul1262]

EPA range should be determined based on city and highway driving. Do that in a controlled study and it might be valid. But just driving until the battery runs dead is a highway test. You need some folks with a science background to help you design a test without so many flaws and bias.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

EPA range should be miles per kWh. Multiply by useable pack size.

[@molinkie]

I didn't read the full article, but am I right in assuming that a vehicle's stated EPA range is determined by tests carried out by the manufacturer and not by the EPA itself?

[@SuperCatbert]

Nice to see VAG group making its way to Electric dominance....They have so many electric cars coming online its dizzying.

[@AMan-he9sz]

They won't sell many in the U.S. unless they stop de-contenting the cars they bring here. I wanted an ID4 but there is few color choices here and all the best features were stripped out for the U.S. market. Volkswagen has never given the North American market much love - and they haven't received much love in return.

[@toyotaprius79]

65 mph is pretty tame. For EVs of old from 10 years ago, it would've been necessary to relax at 65. But nowadays with +60kWh batteries, most people will still drive at 80 mph / 130km/h and still get tired before a charge. At such speeds definitely expect less than 3kWh per mile.

[@martin3316]

It's miles per kilowatt hour, not 3kWh per mile.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

(but then the Tesla aero would have won😉)

[@thomasjacques5286]

You need to report the wh/mi as well. None of these cars have the same size battery so the tests are bogus.

[@sunnyvalentino]

Aero Aero Aero and weight. 3 is lower vs Mach E and Y

[@MarkLLawrence]

So, highway tests again. You should do city driving until they stop. The regenerative braking will make a huge difference.

[@aussie2uGA]

But if you're on the interstate trying to get to the next charging station, there are no stops.

[@willaerley7140]

City range tests aren’t very useful for most people unless you drive Uber. Basically, you’d have to drive around for 8+ hours to go through a full battery.

[@sailingchloe2330]

these are all the low range models... Why did you miss out the Model S? ... the model S is where it get's interesting..

[@psblue12]

I suppose all vehicle manufacturers use a vehicle in a lab test! it's a role reversal,ICE vehicles display good mpg at a constant motorway speed say 55mph, but in stop start city travel they fall short,whilst EVs seem to do better in cities or A/B (Uk) roads.

[@aussie2uGA]

You ran the Model Y to empty last year and then again this year and got the same distance? Thats huge news for the supposed "battery degradation"

[@tylerlever7733]

That's because they didn't post results from this test. The only thing they're showing in this test is the "after 0" miles.

[@RidgesPhoto]

@@tylerlever7733 Yeah, that's weird. How far did each car go on the oval test track? Did they reach the EPA number there but Edmunds is excluding it because it doesn't represent their real world test?

[@garyclark6747]

We are aware that the EPA has two categories of tests that manufacturers can submit to. Tesla using the most extensive to be able to state the most optimistic number possible unlike other manufacturers who use the EPA test that’s more pessimistic. Your test however is more realistic to the commute of many and eliminates all styles of breaking and acceleration that come with individuals. May I suggest a 0% to 100% charge test broken down by percentage and charge rate and time for each of these vehicles as this makes the biggest difference on any commute over an extended range. Some state huge KW‘s but they only last a small percentage of the charging time before it drops down to a low charge rate. Technology and battery evolution has brought it to the place where it could sustain a higher charge rate if used. This is more of how fast will they be allowed to charge and also how fast are they capable given the voltage vs current choices manufacturers are setting up. Tesla has chosen a lower voltage that leads to hotter handles and are limited by cable size to transfer more power since it can only increase it by increasing current. Great job… Keep up all the good work.

[@vladimiralexandrov5930]

How is this realistic? Do most people get on highway and drive 65 mph without much stop and go in their daily commute?

[@cesarmadrigal5867]

I forget the name, something like Tom Mahogany does charging tests on his channel.

[@garyclark6747]

@@vladimiralexandrov5930 The amount of drain on a battery varies greatly based on acceleration, deceleration, elevation changes and temperatures. Highway speeds draw more current than lower speeds and at different rates for different cars. It does average out to be approximately what a mixed road commute would be like in regards to battery usage. It is also the best way to replicate the same conditions for each EV in a short circuit. No one drives an oval to work either but it did average the effect of surface winds effect on the range. The elevation from start to the start line again averaged any slight elevation changes. Again no one faces zero wind and zero elevation change over their commutes either but this test was to eliminate those factors thereby revealing the true capabilities of each vehicle. One could argue their average speed on their commute is 35mph but someone else a much higher speed. It’s not a test to predict with absolute perfection the range you will get but rather a comparative way of knowing which EV will get you further on a trip if needed. It’s always best to charge between 0% and 80% on extended travels as most EV replenish the batteries quickest in this range. So while capacity tested here is very important just as important is the rate of charge and time it takes to regain the same amount of miles to make it to the next charging station. If you spend 15 minutes extra at every charging stop it daily doesn’t change things much for most people but on an eight our trip it’ll add up quickly in the overall time it takes to get places. The range matters most in areas with more sparse charging infrastructure so it can’t be ignored by many. Hope this helps understand how this test is used to help users gauge vehicles for their particular needs and not really reveal a good or bad choice. The Bolt is in the middle of the pack and charges slower than many but if it fits the daily use needs then it’s an option. If every weekend it’s off to a far away destination then using it will be more taxing on time and a second vehicle would be needed or one further up the range chart.

[@garyclark6747]

@@cesarmadrigal5867 Tom and Kyle both do and collaborate on InsideEVs channel on this platform. They picked 70mph and Highway loops style test which are very good with similar results. Their reviews of EV’s and Kyle’s of all vehicles (Outofspec) very honest and straight forward. They cover the most important item to EV’s and that’s charging them in the real world.

[@babnu]

Range on EV can change a lot depending on driving style and use of AC or heater. Tesla’s are most efficient cars and can hit their EPA range. I have 2019 Tesla 3 dual motor and driven 27000 miles with 250wh/mile average. This includes winter and highway driving and no heat pump. In perfect condition with AC off going 50 mph it can get 180 wh/mile. Is that real world enough ?

[@kamilb8232]

They literally have data in a well controlled environment and measuring equipment that shows otherwise. Who are you with your anecdotal evidence?

[@babnu]

Lol. Chill bro. It’s my car my anecdote!!!

[@DaCh2023]

I share your experience. I average 110% efficiency on my 3, Y, and S over a year. I drive 5 miles over on highways primarily (never going over 80 MPH). In fact, I travel around 500 miles one way routinely. I don’t over accelerate anymore either. I currently live in RI and VA, hence the long drives.

[@lne176]

@@DaCh2023 It's an interesting qualifier regarding acceleration - begs the question, if in the end range is all that matters, why build cars that can accelerate hard, when in real life the exact opposite is the normal driving mode?

[@TheDominicankid13]

How can this test be accurate by using older models that we don’t know how well they took care of the battery . 2018 Tesla compare to a new one is a big difference. Also we don’t know what settings they had on the car ( chill mode or standard sport mode ) were the ac on or off , or if sentry mode was on ? Is funny how they used older model Tesla’s and compared it to new models of the competition 🤣

[@kamilb8232]

Did you even watch the video? Chill mode makes no difference in a constant 65mph test. They state the Model 3 long range was literally built weeks before the test. They also state the Model Y matched the performance when they first tested. On their website they state more details on the test as well. All cars ran climate control set to 72F so they are still on equal grounds.

[@TheDominicankid13]

@@kamilb8232 do you even own a Tesla . Even having climate mode on affects performance . Every little thing counts if you want to achieve the 300-320 miles of range

[@kamilb8232]

@@TheDominicankid13 They have same climate settings set on all EVs they tested you buffoon. Yet Tesla is the only one that struggles with EPA range. If you go to the EPA website they also say calculate their values with climate settings in mind so it's perfectly reasonable they would also have it on their test when comparing with the EPA values.

[@TheDominicankid13]

@@kamilb8232 baffonon 😂😂

[@raaedchhapra2991]

Would you be able to test model y long range?

[@sagihome2084]

Why is Mache and ID4 compared to model3? Looks like edmunds favor non tesla

[@copperkeyracing6167]

They can't even pronounce Mach-E. I don't think they favor non Tesla. Fact is Tesla underperformed by an average of 17mi or 5%. That's a failure which will cause more stranded vehicles due to it. Lawsuit, possibly? They sue over under performing hp ratings, range is no different. Sounds bad to me.

[@ronb4633]

Very funny that Tesla sends you a new car with 400mi on it. Bjørn Nyland (Tesla Bjørn) has documented in great detail that the buffers cannot be depended on as they are generally gone after 6mo with some amount of fast charging. To suggest you need to drive the cars past 0 pct on battery status is ridiculous and very dangerous to tell their customers.

[@JDawgstwothousand]

Question - if you do drag races in EV’s, does this effect the battery performance long term? I am thinking specifically about the Y performance in the long term fleet.

[@ricotrejo4125]

Depends. But yes it can cause battery degradation in most cars, except the taycan

[@copperkeyracing6167]

If you mean drag races primarily vs commuting primarily, I would say no. If you over charge it past 90% or over drain it below 10% that would be more damaging. A fast discharge from drag racing would cause more heat as a biproduct of a fast discharge, but that's all. The car should have been designed to be able to take the heat and not drain the battery to quickly to cause damage in any way... the Chevy volt, I believe had that issue though, and would spontaneously combust.

[@ricotrejo4125]

@@copperkeyracing6167 he was talking about drag racing and so was I. And yes Tesla’s can degrade quicker if you constantly drag race it over and over

[@matthewboyd8689]

Even if Tesla doesn't match their numbers they still have a charging network that will kick the a** out of anyone else. Currently saving up for the $25,000 (long range if possible)

[@alanrickett2537]

Tesla made the mistake of engaging with trolls

[@NukemNak]

It's very interesting that you declined to include the total range traveled from start to stop. Arguably that would be the most important number in this test, certainly It's obvious a huge point of interest. It begs the question: Why didn't you report it? You must not have liked the results.

[@gondorian1006]

It's in the linked article

[@richierauscher5131]

Yeah, that's literally the ONLY important number. If we're to believe that claimed ranges are misleading, then let's see the real world ranges. I have a feeling that the Tesla's would make the others look awful, which is why those numbers weren't shared.

[@tylerlever7733]

@@gondorian1006 those are ranges from previous tests...where's the ranges from this test?

[@NukemNak]

@@gondorian1006 no, the linked article is a completely different test with control measures nowhere near sufficient. This test removes more variables and would give a far better idea of the relative range of the vehicles tested. It's obvious the results from this test should be published. The fact that they're not publishing a simple number puts Edmunds impartiality in serious doubt.

[@kamilb8232]

@@NukemNak No because dumb dumbs on here will go, "See? The 65kph loop test matches or exceeds EPA numbers" where in a more real life, which is what EPA attempts to replicate, it won't. The point of this test is to test the max range beyond 0% battery charge displayed. Which in itself is the dumbest argument Tesla engineers made because no EV owners risks being stranded for a tow or misuses their battery that way.

[@youbian]

Interesting how we gauge in range instead of hours

[@42earthling]

I wonder how much more range the Taycan has beyond 0 miles. that is a huge gap between the epa rating and actual range.

[@kamallb4650]

Ikr.

[@martin3316]

The Taycan(t) probably has zero - one mile of emergency range when it hits 0 state of charge. 😂 😂 😂

[@kamallb4650]

@@martin3316 and this is what happens when fanboism plagues people's minds.

[@jayahn123]

Geez! Temperature and Beyond buffer (to 0% and beyond) DO count!!! This IS the realistic and real life parameter! What is wrong with Edmunds??? Very disappointed! Why don't you test Taycan S in 56 degree and Tesla in 73 degree??? Wanna make a bet that the numbers will greatly differ?

[@iowgtr]

Edmunds, 'Teslas are terrible, don't give stated range'. Also Edmunds, 'we have here my wife's Model 3'. That must really hurt having to hate on a brand that your own family actually likes, ROFL!

[@savedfaves]

Edmunds never said Tesla's were terrible.

[@theMLBfan]

This was a really useful test. Thanks guys!

[@yoyomo777]

When a car review site keeps saying “everything is fair!” It’s not.

[@MrExo_3D]

What are the total distances each car travelled.. Full -> Empty?

[@youxkio]

Understood. Good job everyone!

[@tristanpinkerton3075]

Can you also add FCEVs to the comparison tests ?

[@rickeybarnes6471]

Test at 70 mph because 65 mph on hwy can be dangerous! I go 75 mph in my Y performance with no range anxiety because of the Tesla’s charging network.

[@rodneylove8027]

Very well done.

[@buzzpedrotti5401]

Also perhaps 1-2% is lost each year in capacity in the first few years of use.

[@roryreddog3258]

So Edmonds, what are you hiding, why did you not even publish what miles the vehicles actually achieved on your test loop? 🤨You claim almost every other manufacturer exceeds their EPA but you didn't even publish the numbers. And this had about 12°C that can make up to a 15% difference in the range of an EV. You, failing to publish the actual results, gives you about as much credibility as Top Gear.

[@copperkeyracing6167]

Ummm, they did. All you have to do is click the first link in the description. They said that. Pay attention.

[@roryreddog3258]

@@copperkeyracing6167 do you know why they failed to mention all the miles achieved? Its because they said ALL other car makers over-achieved their range, but one of them actually failed. I also question the Porsche over-achieving EPA by 59%. Was it being towed by a Model S?

[@SCWgreg]

But was the total miles of each car on the 7 mile oval run???

[@fragu123]

Interesting to see that absolutely ALL other manufacturers understate their range (overperform in any case) and basically just all Tesla’s are always overstated (underperforming in any case), see at 06:55 - speaks volumes if integrity and transparency are meaningful to you!

[@greg1307]

EPA ratings aren’t realistic. RAV4 Prime claims 38 MPG and 600 miles range. On a long drive on an actual freeways with realistic freeway speeds and not the EPA 55-65 mph, we got 440 miles range and 27 MPG.

[@jbar_85]

Where’s the Nissan Leaf and Kia Niro EV? They should have been included, too

[@og8322]

Why you guys didn’t test the Mach-E RWD with the ext battery? You guys used the AWD which is going to consume more.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Same reason they used the model Y performance, the most thirsty 4wd?

[@blomegoog]

I would argue 55 MPH would have been more balanced. And more real.

[@savedfaves]

On main motorways in Ireland speed limit is 70 mph and many people do that speed, so 65 mph to me is more than fair. And all cars are going that same speed. I'd rather be able to drive slower and exceed the range than what they do here than struggle to reach it. These tests are music to my ears.