Electrician Overwhelmed by Epic Bidding War Over Game-Changing Staples | Dragons' Den

[@DragonsDenGlobal]

Subscribe so you don't miss out on the newest clips from Dragons’ Den! 🐲 kzbin.info

[@mythicalmoose2995]

You have already aired this episode on this KZbin channel you cheeky bugger this is not new

[@djsylambert]

@Dragons' Den Isn't this a re-upload?? I've watched this on KZbin well before now. Thumbs 👎 for this

[@kriss1987davies09]

Where can i buy 1 of these? Im an electrician and this would make jobs so much quicker

[@michaelbradley7529]

So which came first, dragons' den or shark tank either way they are identical shows with an identical premise. Unique show concepts are clearly a thing of the past.

[@FissionChips]

@@kriss1987davies09 If you look further down in this thread of comments you will see that DeWalt do a 12V version . . .

[@MLGB0Yz]

Should’ve gone with the 3 dragons who have expertise in patents, manufacturing, and huge licensing potential. That was a stacked team for only 5% more

[@mkdy218]

Yep... really strange decision I thought

[@daniellipscomb7658]

And extra 20k

[@alecneate76]

I suppose having 3 different investors could be a pain but they did seem to have much more expertise.

[@amanofmanyparts9120]

It's the help with the patents that would have swung me. They can be hell on wheels if you don't get *all* the details right so that someone else can come along with a slight variation not covered by the original patent!

[@frozendude707]

3 type A personalities at each others neck trying to one-up each other all the way trough a stressful and difficult transition? Yeah, sounds like the perfect formula for success...

[@user-lq5bh7qo3m]

Peter is so happy when he hears inventors have sold their houses …

[@paperking3168]

Lol

[@JohnCashin]

If I were a cynic I would say he loves it because it leaves them in a vulnerable position where he can dictate all the terms and if they try to argue he could say "without me ya got nothing, you'll be out on the street" but I don't believe Peter is like that, I'm just saying it could be true in some cases 😀

[@basharstats4482]

because he was homeless sleeping under the bridges and empty wearhouses before he struck gold somehow. so he can very well relate to homeless ppl

[@thatsbaituk1908]

Just share the gamble with the bank why tf would you do it yourself

[@dk.2260]

Loves it when peasants suffer. He’ll probably but the house and rent it 10x

[@RynoTv]

Me ryan from Northern Ireland has an update...with Debbies name on the cards they managed to secure a £350,000 investment (between 8 of Deborah's investor friends) Patent in the UK is still pending and US patent approved, product as of yet has not launched still in processing and testing with the stapler Hope you enjoyed this update

[@VeggieBond]

Thanks

[@S_n_q__]

thank youu

[@jakebarnes3054]

Thanks Ryan from Northern Ireland

[@Ankushdas2001]

Thank you rayn from Northern Ireland for the update

[@nunyabiznez6381]

Here in the U.S. I am anxious to see this become available here. Amazon and Home Depot would be good venders for this product.

[@horaceormsby5278]

Man: I’m here to ask for £100,000 for 100% of my business Touker: You’re gonna need more money and some office space

[@MindSetReset]

😀💯

[@axa897]

He got office space in London he bought it just for this show so he can offer it for new businesses also he using some space . It was mistake before it was must to have office in London now days it's no reason .

[@hekakain4108]

Yawn!

[@thealien_ali3382]

@@MindSetReset lol

[@peterhunter8274]

He comes across as the dragon I’d least like to take investment from.

[@nmode7420]

30% of the business, for a solid financial investment, three dragons, an open doorway into China, patents completely sorted, and a licensing deal with a large power tool company. But instead they chose a single dragon, who might get them into home depot. Absolutely bonkers!

[@MrFoulksy]

unreal. They screwed that up royally

[@JungleCrook]

yoo wtf are they doing i hope theyve done more research into the dragons than i have caus i think 5% is gonna be a drop in the bucket of their tears

[@fieldy409]

If theres one dragon they have a higher incentive to make it work.

[@reposter6434]

Tbh though the license deal wasn't guarenteed, and without a patent it was a worthless proposition, they should of asked him to guarentee it, else it's false words since he doesn't own that company.

[@reposter6434]

@Damien Lavizzo But it could have been worth more... Who knows?

[@warbearin]

Wow, the guy looks like such a tradesman and the wife looks like such an accountant. The product is perfect for them with her business knowledge and his ideas.

[@RaviPatel-ex8er]

Totally. My wife litterly is an accountant and I'm a tradesman. It's how it is for me. Lol

[@tonycrayford3893]

I swear I've seen this product about

[@mindspeaking583]

It’s a good mix 👍🏻

[@sshep86]

Put glasses and a blazer on a homeless person and they look like an accountant. Take them off again and they look like a tradesman.

[@brainsanitation]

@@RaviPatel-ex8er work together

[@soovi4522]

Has anyone else noticed that when Peter is quiet, it always means he's interested

[@johnstoddart9026]

If he bites his pen your laughing, means he mega wants in

[@ryans413]

He was out soon he herd about that patten I could see it before he even said he was out

[@VenturiLife]

That's the issue, come on a show and reveal it and 2 weeks later a Chinese company has knocked up a clone In their factory.

[@derekellisCAN]

@@VenturiLife Ain't that the truth.

[@timgil7830]

"just what we need, more cable ties" You can never have enough cable ties

[@DominicGudgeon]

"Wow you're really good at DIY stuff how did you..." CABLE TIES

[@Dedkidd]

Sooo true! 🤣🤣 just when you think your done ,, oooh i could hide these cables ones here!

[@petejay75]

Especially good cable ties like the ones Hellerman-Tyton makes!

[@ryans413]

Yes I agree many times I needed to hold some cables and I didn’t have any ties

[@lidge1994]

Yeah, it's like saying "Wow, more ways to improve the look and safety of things we use every day, what a bore"

[@matthewbell4273]

Peter: “Out of the goodness of my heart, I’m going to offer you nothing.” Entrepreneurs: “Thank you Peter, that is so generous of you; how could any common man match that?”

[@chrisliddiard725]

I don't get this? Was peter saying he didn't have what it takes to bring this product to market and therefore he wont offer funding?

[@A-bt9nz]

@@chrisliddiard725 that's how i understood it

[@joedeegan349]

@@chrisliddiard725 yeah other dragons would be better suited to their product and situation.

[@ForburyLion]

@@chrisliddiard725 I think he was saying he could invest and make loads of money, but if he backed out the couple would make even more money because the other dragons were better placed to bring this to market and provide the necessary expertise.

[@BonnieBeats]

@@chrisliddiard725 yeah, cause isn't he tied into tech, like cameras and IT type things, less construction ties I'm guessing.

[@samual8299]

This couple has perfect harmony. You can tell their personalities and traits really complement each other well

[@balazstorok9265]

Yeah, without of any physical contact, just go for the money

[@boostandflow4603]

Yeah she says jump he says how hi

[@dRippppa]

The dragons are irrelevant in this situation. They legitimately only need the money to put the product into market since it's such a good product.

[@reposter6434]

This is untrue... They provide an investment. They have close connections with the top companies in the UK allowing the product to get to shelves faster over a short period of time.

[@roland9367]

20.000 pound is nothing compared to help with patents, chinese market, and entry to a large manufacturer

[@Zalied]

@@roland9367 but its also 5% more which if you are confidant in getting your product out there without the help can equate to a lot of money. Of course patent help is nice and if you cant get it can make or break you and 5% isnt to bad of a loss in exchange for a head start in manufacturing and an in with the buyers. its not as simple a decision more knowledge and startup money in exchange for 5% long term profits. lets not forget any 1 dragon is going to have help its not like they lost all knowledge and ins.

[@drowningin]

@@roland9367 China is a dead market. They'll buy 1, copy it & sell/have their own. They copy 100% of everything. Thinking they won't copy your plastic nails is a joke. I'd go so far as to try and avoid having China get their hands on it as long as possible. The second they do you have a competitor who can out manufacture you, and cares not for patents

[@Mrx1080]

The product already exists albeit without the plastic nails. Only Europe is strict on fixing cables, most markets wouldn't fix their cables to begin with making the customer base much smaller then they think.

[@ubberJakerz]

He made a good product, and she did her research. What an awesome tagteam. Good for them

[@regwatson2017]

By the time this went to air the Chinese would already have stolen the design and be producing a fully finished product and called it Chinese Dragon Stapler.

[@thomass.jagger2429]

Listed on Alibaba as: 'Chinese dragon stapler plastic nails wire dragon plastic staper 220V 110V cable regulatory staples plastic dragon stapler easy staple plastic electricity two colours staple dragon'

[@ikkivp5631]

@@thomass.jagger2429 Exactly..hahaha

[@dimitrihadzitomov]

All well and good, but knock-offs don't always nail the right material, which is important in this case. Also, everyone's looking at this as if the only customers are one-man electrician companies and not huge construction corporations who buy in bulk from known and reputable sources. Especially if there's a way to get the VAT back. The Greys are gonna be ok.

[@SuppositionalBox]

@@thomass.jagger2429 Yup lmfao

[@limalongkumer4397]

Lol 😂

[@NoobAdventuresGaming]

After doing an electrical course for 3 years at GCSE and having to spend to many hours just tapping in cable clips, getting them spaced out and making sure they’re in the wood properly, if they can get this right then I can see every electrician in the world wanting one of these because of the time they’re going to save using it

[@simonb2109]

they already exist and they support but dont grip so they're crap but they're only good for wood.

[@duskyrc1373]

"I don't think they would object at this moment, because you haven't got a patent." I'm not sure Peter understands how the patent granting system actually works. Patent offices raise objections BEFORE they grant the patent, not after. You have to overcome any issues they raise before it can be granted. (I worked as a patent examiner for the UK office)

[@JV-rf6is]

Ah interesting. Thanks for pointing this out!

[@azentra7560]

Doesn't really make sense to grant a patent and then complain about the contents now would it? Not sure how the logic worked there in his mind....

[@craigcrissman4651]

Yeah I was really co fused by his reaction there and I kinda wish that they'd showed Julie's face at that comment

[@MoraLeinad]

Yeah, but what he meant is that they can object at any point until they get the patent, it isn't a sure thing yet they won't object cause they don't have the patent

[@kristianmattsson]

I think he meant that the patent won´t protect actual tool, since it refers to the non-conductive material in the clip.

[@stormyprawn]

Average dragon's den offer: > Says something really thoughtful > Makes an offer that's half as valuable as the original

[@Archive385]

Because they know it will make money, so they want as much return as possible for their investment

[@stormyprawn]

@@Archive385 of course. I was making fun of their methods not their intentions

[@TaskSwitcherify]

The narrator's puns are sending sparks down my spine. He's not conducting himself professionally and must be grounded! ⚡🔌

[@originalunoriginal4055]

Did you know he is medically blind!

[@CatopiaCatSanctuary]

@@originalunoriginal4055 I think he sees that.

[@rgarlinyc]

😂😂 But wire you questioning his cable-abilities? It is shocking that you are plugging your own current services, a dark turn which leaves me de-lighted!

[@Chris-pv2ht]

He is a genius, he knows what the Dragons are going to say before they do ;)

[@TaskSwitcherify]

@@rgarlinyc Good one :))

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

would love someone to come in one day and start their bid with" i want 27 million for 5% of the business" and watch everyone spit out their coffee in shock 🤣

[@rockydee7499]

Its either that product is a time machine or a hover board. Either ways the dragons would have bite it for sure

[@grimysw8518]

Theres the opposite of this for one guy asking for £1

[@karaiwonder]

There’s a video of a guy offering 1%

[@alexturlais8558]

Most millionaires probably don't just have 27 million in a bank account, you'd need to have the cure for cancer for them to invest that much

[@_Davepocalypse]

There was someone who asked for £1m for 5%. They didn't get any dragons 😂

[@KabbaModern03]

Nobody: Touker: “You’re gonna’ need more money.”

[@ivo]

@gmellias Welp, someone missed the joke ... :(

[@anuvette]

@gmellias who hurt u mister

[@AntiMatter930]

@gmellias alright Touker, stop watching Dragon's Den on KZbin lol

[@Lyncheffect]

@@anuvette ​ Unoriginality probably did pal, but that problem seems to whizz past most peoples heads these days

[@freezasama5802]

Touker: And that means I need a bigger equity stake

[@B1234-x5q]

If you’re in the construction industry you know tool brands are everything to most people. They like to keep them all the same. I think they were better off getting the patent then approaching companies like hilti / paslode / dewalt / makita for a deal. Branding and their knowledge would take this to the next level.

[@NamPham-jk5zc]

But wouldn't their product line be just one thing to start? Much easier to get a licensing deal with established companies and make more out of bigger pies with smaller slices rather than a big slice of a small pie. At some point down the line they could sell their patent anyways

[@MrPereira412]

*cough Milwaukee *cough already have an electric stapler just need to adapt to the staple type

[@squalltheonly]

But theres already staples for these cables in the US.

[@kidShibuya]

@@squalltheonly 240v?

[@mrc1672]

It's a Milwaukee 12v battery

[@AjaxOutlaw]

One dragon was a safe decision here. They didn’t get too crazy and came for the offer they asked for.

[@RioCrypto55]

Seriously. Have a game plan. Bottom line. Stick to it.

[@alextasarov1341]

30% is a lot to give. They probably went in knowing exactly what they needed and nothing more. I think they didn’t necessarily need additional help so because Debra wanted less they went with that.

[@rungeon83]

Debra is right she can do all what they promised, each dragon has exp of idea to manufacturing to selling, and seeing those three dragons talking over one another.... Yeah too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. Plus its debras trade she knows it the best and then 25%

[@SuppositionalBox]

@@rungeon83 @AlexTasarov Thank you both for an explanation. Makes perfect sense to me and was a good call

[@xxxepicgamerxxx52]

i dissagree, ultimately the 3 dragons will help the buisness the most and they have better rates for cash/percentage

[@alextasarov1341]

@@xxxepicgamerxxx52 I don’t think you can compare cash/percentage because ultimately the percentage is worth more over time. Even if they gave them a combined 200k upfront, the extra 5% of the company could be worth 10 million in 10 years if they are successful. In my opinion they seemed to have everything figured out. Not to say the dragons couldn’t help, but they may not need as much help.

[@reviewassistant6891]

Nope, they could of bartered 3 dragons back 20k less for 5% they went with Deborah for other reasons

[@toniroberts8117]

I love when I see the dragons fight to sell themselves just to be a part in the business lol.

[@tesh_sleep000]

Would be good to see the full take rather than a 10-15min edit!!

[@genxr1141]

@@tesh_sleep000 watch the actual show instead of a clip from youtube that will probably help

[@meg.h.]

@@genxr1141 how or where can we watch it

[@samfisher1573]

I really hope these guys were successful. They’re so heartwarming.

[@carloleonsadang8737]

The Dragon's are more respectful than their American counterparts.

[@therealgrawger]

Peter especially can be nasty sometimes but usually when they just don’t like the product or the people. The dragons respect these two because they thought everything through and have a great product

[@booshush9426]

I disagree. These dragons are so enveyos, they cant stand someone feeling satisfaction

[@macnolds4145]

I strongly disagree. The US Sharks are often kind and sentimental at times when the UK Dragons are blunt and abrasive. Furthermore, the US Sharks (barring a few exceptions) are more likely to come up with creative deals, offer more $, support not-quite-ready businesses, and so on. I've seen Daymond, for example, basically commit acts of charity.

[@Stinger913]

@@macnolds4145 ^

[@Snookbone]

No apostrophe

[@hypticnosisgaming]

The dragons didn't even need to ask about numbers lol

[@danohare8819]

They haven’t taken it to market

[@hypticnosisgaming]

@@danohare8819 ahh I understand thanks bro

[@InvadersDie]

@@danohare8819 that doesn't stop many from presenting their own made up numbers of profit estimates and sales etc, then they question it.

[@jaydox3836]

Regardless of the questionable final decision, the product itself is ingenius and extremely practical to the target market. Such a simple solution to such a wide-spread problem will likely bring them great success. The fact that no one brought forth a product like this sooner just goes to show what other opportunities out there still exist. Think of a solution to solve each problem you come across in life even if there's an easy way around it, and you to will find success.

[@strikeforcek9149]

Sadly, I'm not seeing where they're going to get a patent granted. This exact product has been around for around 5 or 6yrs already, with many variations already made by many big brand tool companies. Here is Makita's version from around 5yrs ago that can be done with both battery powered AND mechanical staple guns... 😞 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXnNmWB9e6eobNk

[@skullcrusade3436]

@@strikeforcek9149 did you just link us to their own video showcasing their product? Bruh, that's Julie Gray's channel

[@svampebob007]

@@skullcrusade3436 I think Peter really dodged a bullet there, 4 years ago they were saying it was just about to be ready that year... 9 month ago they said " the product should be ready to launch middle of next year." Sounds more like a failed kick-starter

[@mkw9999vr]

Offer half of the money and “willing to share” lol I don’t think you’ve got a choice there

[@B_Bodziak]

If it's like the US show, they must get 100% of the money, but the percent doesn't matter.

[@basharstats4482]

she was just trying to be funny. it's her sense of humour. chill guys it was a joke.

[@grahamfree3175]

I thought the same mkw ! Faux generosity when there's no other choice!! Lol

[@Mr.M1STER]

Wow. Nice product and really nice people. I was a little bit surprised they went with Deborah as I thought having 3 dragons in your corner and an extra 20,000 pounds would be well worth giving the extra 5%. Then again though, Deborah is a great person to have in your corner and all of the money they wanted for 5% less than the others so each has their pros and cons.

[@psycoda2]

giving extra 15%*

[@dizzydial8081]

@K B Yep. China is shameless with their theft.

[@AB-wh8po]

Sara: "I'm willing to put up half the money, and I'm willing to share" ...well yeah, that's how halving it works

[@TheHorrorGuy1978]

Exactly wat I was thinking lol

[@reviewassistant6891]

You can offer half and still not get someone else

[@robinmartijn9041]

@@reviewassistant6891 Actually you can't. The rules of the Den dictate that a deal requires you to get the amount you asked for, or you get nothing.

[@NealyLL]

Love they way Deborah was fighting all the way to the end. Out numbered ….not out gunned!! Go girl !!!!

[@frontleftfender]

Went down to the wire. Couple had a light bulb moment and decided to flick the switch on their idea. Shockingly good pitch and very well conducted. Could become a staple of the industry. Lightning quick delivery. This product will spark alot of interest.

[@iz723]

Get out

[@darklordojeda]

Google search #1: Words pertaining to electricity. Google search #2: Puns and parodies regarding electricity. Google search #3: Midget porn.

[@frontleftfender]

@@darklordojeda Google search #4. Darklordjeda

[@shoutatthesky]

Go away.

[@themug406]

Google search 5, how to spell a lot

[@jordyv.703]

That's a very honorable thing for Peter Jones to do. I shows that businesspeople are actual people.

[@masondegaulle5731]

You can absolutely patent the material used in a design, its done all the time.

[@KaryoSentiko]

I think the point here is that they were not trying to patent THE material but rather ALL non-conductive materials, which PJ felt was unrealistic.

[@XXX3RX0]

@@KaryoSentiko Exactly. And plastics aren't just one material either. Plastics come in many thousands of different versions, each with their own properties. There are even some that are conductive. There are probably more versions of plastics than there are steel.

[@masondegaulle5731]

@@KaryoSentiko That is at the core of the patent though, specifically that no part of the staple is conductive. They are specifically targeting non-conductive plastics strong and cost effective in replicating a penetrating fixing as _that_ is what differentiates _their_ product from others on the market, and _that_ specifically is what allows it to rate for required design standards to be used on 240v installations. PJ was viewing it as if the wording is somewhat arbitrary, and it could have just been how they presented it, not how it's written. They key is _non-conductive plastics and polymers,_ which is no different from say the wording used in the patent for many tool assemblies. It's not specified _which metals or plastics precisely_ they're constructed from _unless_ that medium is the only one which can be used, or someone will just sidestep the patent by using a different medium with very similar properties.

[@masondegaulle5731]

@Food Watcher The design concept clearly relies on the material being non-conductive. It's a staple, not a clip, designed for a specific purpose. To be clear here, I don't think it's a _great_ product, it has some obvious shortcomings but the patent isn't one of them. For the record, _they got their patent._

[@masondegaulle5731]

@Food Watcher It's like you didn't even watch the video. Cable-clip guns have existed for years. The DeWalt system, like all the others, is only for low voltage applications as it uses insulated metal staples, _not_ non-conductive staples. Can't be used on 240v. And as I said, _they have their patent._ Product looks to be going to market very shortly.

[@OpEditorial]

Gotta love how epic the soundtrack gets, especially when you consider the subject matter 🤣

[@jay.a3926]

Two lovely entrepreneurs with integrity and so humble.

[@Sebastian-85]

Probably the best video I have ever seen in many years and the trio created by the dragons is unbelievable… love this couple

[@Emin3m1986]

I’m an electrician and in UK we need a product like this. I was waiting for bigger manufacturers like Milwaukee to come up with a product like this but nothing. Milwaukee has an electric stapler but is not for electric cables. Dewalt has one but is too bulky. The gun they presented looks like is taking Milwaukee M12 batteries. Btw, they have to design some metallic electric staples too as the new regs asks to be installed in special locations to prevent premature collapse in an event of a fire.

[@yesWzhyy]

I have the dewalt one and it is not bulky or heavy and clips 10mm absolutely fine,

[@djpolly1]

im electrician in finland and i hardly ever use tc-clips and dont see any market for these, maybe other countries still do wireing on surface but at least we put everything inside walls

[@Emin3m1986]

@@djpolly1 - we do it inside the walls mate, but in UK we support the cables along the joists with clips if let’s say not many. If I need to run multiple cables I use cradles with cable ties. Inside the walls I use clips, clipped in the middle of the stud as this is worry free that someone is going to screw anything though my cables and is considered “good practice”.

[@persona250]

premature collapse is not applicable in a domestic scenario unless its surface wiring in an escape route

[@Emin3m1986]

@@persona250 - Yeah, I agree with you, mate!

[@mayaandboris-travelcouple2686]

That hug was straight up full of love. Love this couple 😍

[@Crispynuggets28]

Having lost my business to covid i really felt happy for them at the end. Amazing and hope it worked out.

[@sploofmcsterra4786]

I'm sorry to hear that

[@daithi1487]

Sell drugs..good return..

[@anon9558]

You didn't lose it to covid, covid had literally absolutely nothing to do with it. You lost it to criminals who knowingly created the fake crisis. One of the main points of it was destroying small businesses.

[@gazbason]

I love how Sara Davies is really happy for anyone who gets an offer

[@arkfan5345]

The 10% to 3 dragons with more money. Huge marketing help. Pattern help and various other benefits. This product would become global within short period of time. On huge scale. True more conflict but more options.

[@paulgamble8531]

Sara "I will offer you half the money..... and I'm willing to share" 🤔🤔🤔

[@rezamotin7305]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 genius

[@charlieparkeris]

She can mathematics.

[@curtisj2165]

😀😁😂😀😁😂

[@1dunkdafunk]

Used a customer's dewalt staple gun a few months ago. Metal powder coated staples, you can fire into concrete blocks/ bricks etc. Can easily bunch 2 T+E cables. Was a lot quicker than hammer and clips. Clips need to be metal especially for cables above fire escape routes.

[@mrsillywalk]

I have worked in the industry and this is a much-needed product. A hammer and clips with sore fingers verses a one hand repeating machine with the other hand free is a tremendous boost to quality and output.

[@Siemi1]

Year later and this is how things went: The business has received support from Invest Northern Ireland and while the Grays were offered investment by businesswoman Deborah Meaden following an appearance on Dragons’ Den, they turned it down in favour of local angel investors.

[@jaypoirier4216]

So glad to hear this. Good for them

[@TheBudgie29]

Locally known as the IRA, You take our money, and we won't blow Your knee caps off. Sweet.

[@rixmacearchives2846]

@@timballam3675 jeez man almost 250!!!!

[@sharpsbattle]

They seemed really nice. Glad things worked out for them. Dragons Den can be good exposure.

[@Ste-fx8dr]

Yeah there was more money and expertise across the board however, when there are too many people involved it gets complicated with conflict of interest and money...I think he made the right choice. One helps with patents one helps with sourcing to his contact....seems to me, when their job is done, what do they have to offer? They're just dead weight. I think he made the right choice

[@owlsector7522]

I would’ve agreed with you but personally I feel like they have so many other businesses that their time on this product wouldn’t be their main priority hence why I would’ve taken the other offer

[@3613jeremy]

Inventions like this always blows my mind how it wasn't ever put out by these bigger companies that do nail guns

[@Junkman]

They did, years and years ago. This peeps are just trying to rip it off.

[@leboeuf05]

wow! i know deborah's in the industry, but id have gone with the 3 on this occasion

[@andipandi5641]

looks like they thought that with any dedicated and experienced businessman on board - a hugely in demand product backed up by an international patent would not need to cost them the extra 5% that was the price of three dragons.. i suspect if the other Dragons had not been so greedy and settled for 8% each they could have easily closed the deal..

[@somemong989]

Hm I dunno, too many cooks spoil the broth and all that.

[@oxymoron02]

I thought this too-- I'd have willingly given up an extra 5% in exchange for three separate areas of expertise, three lots of global contacts, and a three-way split on that equity meaning that it would be significantly harder to buy majority equity in the future.

[@waqaasmahmood4118]

@@oxymoron02 well said

[@andipandi5641]

@@oxymoron02 when you have a product with a universally in demand USP - you don't need a hell of a lot of different expertise..

[@MovingToAustralia-MikeBentley]

The title should be "WHEN ALL 5 DRAGONS ARE SHOCKED BY THE CHOICE!" Look at all their faces at 14.46, even Deborah thought she had lost this one.

[@jeschinstad]

I had to go through that in school and clipping on cables were the absolute worst time I spent in three years of wasted education. ViperClip looks extremely awesome to me.

[@ryans413]

Let’s not forget the normal cable clamps that are metal have to be hammered on and sometimes no matter how good you are sometime you miss and hit the cable or hit them little too hard and pinch the cable. This invention with the plastic clips is amazing

[@seanmills5080]

This already exists, I have a manual gun but the same bloody staples and it’s been sitting in the van unused for the last 5 years.

[@MonsterJuiced]

If it already exists, how are they inventing it and pitching it? Surely they'd all know this

[@warbaby8897]

@@MonsterJuiced they're not🤦‍♂️ its called reality TV

[@warbaby8897]

@@MonsterJuiced brah, have you not seen the gucci hat asian man doing tile. He has this but like way better

[@MonsterJuiced]

@@warbaby8897 I haven't. So he's got a better version of this plastic nail staple?

[@stephensimpson8981]

That isn't the same as their product.

[@bmoney9330]

Wrong decision. Those 3 dragons would have been a perfect combo

[@astronemir]

Yeah Deborah was surprised too because a business savvy person should have picked the larger cash stack, contacts, and expertise.

[@rzlb5]

5% makes the difference.

[@Ste-fx8dr]

Yeah there was more money and expertise across the board however. When there are too many people involved it gets complicated with conflict of interest and money...I think he made the right choice.

[@abdxllah9983]

Conflict of interest + after they fulfill their offer they would of been dead weight meaning thats an extra 5%' lost

[@Ste-fx8dr]

@@abdxllah9983 pretty sure that's what I just said 😆

[@TNinja0]

This genuinely looks nice, and I am happy for their victory.

[@sheanna614]

i knew it! Deb for the win! she said an extremely convincing tag "a demonstration of what happens when you get too many dragons involved"

[@richard7645]

Deb's a good dragon

[@mossmonaco9061]

Patents are notoriously difficult and expensive to protect internationally, but this one is a winner!

[@mariemccann5895]

Plus the Chinese don't give a stuff about them.

[@buddycraigg]

WRONG... @ 4:22. USA is on a 240 volt system for house wiring.

[@MultiTopgearfan]

Sorry but I think it was wiser to go for the trifecta instead of just Deborah. An extra 5% for £20k is fair enough, or perhaps work on buying back that 5% once the investment is repaid.

[@B_Bodziak]

20k is worth having 2 additional dragons. Period.

[@pmr6923]

Nah u missed it. When the 3 dragons started speaking at the same time they saw what it would be like working with 3 different minds every day, Like Debra said. Trust me it weren't about the 5%. U can clearly see they came in prepared to sacrifice 30% tops but Debra came in with a subtle one line like the boss she is and sealed the deal. Congrats Debra, now make this business grow for these great people🤑

[@rzlb5]

@@pmr6923 Yeah, one thing for sure was that couple already prepared to go higher than 15% of what they originally asked for.

[@SoSo-li6dn]

Got £350,000 funding from HBAN Angels, love these types of presentations, I'm sick of the food ones.

[@Legitti]

Food, mom and clothing products are boring

[@SoSo-li6dn]

@@Legitti Its the flavored liquor presentations I hate the most. I mean, everyone can put fruit syrup in some gin.

[@GuitarxPlayax]

the food ones are shite , i agree

[@Asif-kh-n9r]

@@Legitti don't forget all the oRgAnIc vEgAn skincare products

[@ellenkarlsson9490]

I don't care what they pitch as long as it's weird and the dragons get angry or insulted.

[@Boshek2019]

Peter showed how much of a PURE gentleman he is in this one Nothing but pure respect for him

[@mariemccann5895]

lol think about it bud.🤣

[@athanasiosp.]

For 5% more you get 3 of the biggest dragons that want to fully cooperate each one with their respective strong points + 20 more thousand pounds ...... eeeehh lets go with deborah

[@athanasiosp.]

@@thestarshavefallen But it makes no sense. Even if Deborah is far better and more useful than anyone else (which I do not think its true, probably all 5 are on average equal to everyone else), 3 dragons FOR SURE outshine her when they wanted to work on their strongest fields and give additional money which are for sure needed every time.

[@athanasiosp.]

@@m8ndayj766 I understand but the idea is so simple. One dragon has x amoung of power, knowledge, connections and planning BUT THREE with different sets of skills, knowledge etc etc can provide multiple times more help to the business, as well as the extra 20k which who cares only the fact that he could have all three of the dragons was more than enough. Even if we use random numbers, if Deborah makes your business make 1 million pounds with 25% going to her, FOR SURE three dragons will make your business make A LOT MORE than the extra 5% they will take from you.

[@VauxhallViva1975]

Yes, I was surprised by their decision there too. I would have expected the three dragon deal would have been what they went for. Better to give up a LITTLE more equity and gain three-times the expertise I would have thought, and we're only talking a 5% difference. I am an electrican myself, and I can certainly see the benefits of their product. Nail-in cable-clips are a pain in the arse, and take so much longer to nail in then their gun method would. Time is money, so that would save cost on jobs. Brilliant product. Does anyone know if the investment went through or not?

[@jeffhunter1633]

I think there is something to be said for giving one dragon a larger percentage; Thus they have a larger invested interest in seeing the product succeed.

[@PhilosophyofElivagar]

My reply to someone with a similar comment: "Not really, Tej wanted 10% for just introducing the product to a personal friend (who'd get involved anyway if the product is good); Sara wanted 10% for knowing about patents (easily accessed knowledge); Touker wanted 10% for sourcing, which is the best skill but, again, easily replicated - Not to mention the "too many cooks" dynamic going on. Deborah is an expert with experience and connections in this exact market, unlike all the other dragons. You could buy patent attourneys and decent sourcing without giving away equity that goes down the drain once the dragons have fulfilled their short-term purpose."

[@johng.1703]

on next weeks show, "why aren't fireguards made of chocolate..."

[@fartingfury]

What do you mean? The wires are insulated in plastic, and the current (pun intended) clips are also already plastic...

[@johng.1703]

@@fartingfury yes the nails are made of plastic, plastic isn't a very dense or hard material. this is why when you look at them after that have stapled them in they are wonky and lose. there is a reason we don't make nails out of plastic.

[@fartingfury]

@@johng.1703 Oh, right, I missed that detail, sorry (I remember her saying it's completely plastic, but the idea that she meant the nails too didn't occur to me). What an odd decision, given that metal nails are already extremely cheap, very good and already in use with the existing clips.

[@Shaddicus_Myreington]

@@johng.1703 this isnt always true you can create products out of plastic that mechanically compete with metal components nails are often made of plastic to withstand the hammer force the plastic could hold the cable, also would be quite fun to see how its manufactured - do they use additive manufacturing to create internal honeycombing. Sorry ive rambled over this but i cannae be bothered to delete stuff

[@jamiemakdad5918]

10:54 Sarah Davies: "so... I would be willing to offer you HALF the money for 15%..... AND I would be willing to share 🤦‍♂️😂

[@charliew8378]

Peter’s understanding of patents and the process is really pretty poor. Particularly considering the number of times he talks (loosely) about IP.

[@charliew8378]

@Food Watcher read the patent and you might understand the scope of his invention 👍🏻

[@chapman9230]

Well said.

[@S7EVE_P]

Less is more. One investor with a track record in the industry. Right choice.

[@vivavaldez87]

You know it's good when the Dragon's give their own mini sales pitch on themselves before making an offer!

[@louism1621]

As an electrician I think this product is dangerous. To satisfy the Premature Collapse regulation in BS 7671, they quoted at 2:08, it needs to be a metal fixing that cant melt and let cables drop down in the event of high heat/fire potentially endangering people escaping a building or firefighers entering.

[@carlcat11]

I'm an industrial controls engineer. That's the first thing that came to my head too after recently hearing of that regs change.

[@stiffler2k246]

My exact thoughts. They said we didn't have a metal clip so it doesn't conduct? Like wtf are you on about?

[@Gainn]

It can't be a plastic because none of them come anywhere near the melting point required. Some sort of ceramic?

[@louism1621]

@@stiffler2k246 Exactly there are metal clips, that are insulated with plastic, so they dont conduct already on the market

[@louism1621]

@@Gainn With my experiences with ceramic junction boxes, ceramic is likely to break easily, especially being hit with a hammer or nail gun

[@Reinonordinn]

They literally had a patent genius, china connections and everything and they went for Deborah. Who later backed out from the deal, nice. They got nothing.

[@8ball9016]

Really? How do you no that?

[@8ball9016]

@TheIkkib Thank you for that. Very interesting. Have a good day guys x

[@ashadams8463]

If you read it properly, it says they turned Deborah down in favour of Angel investors.

[@zo_oe3223]

@@ashadams8463 Well spotted. 👍

[@devonbrook2292]

Good research reino 👌🏽

[@smarinak88]

Master electrician for 17 years and I've owned my own business for 5 years now...I like the idea of the product, Dewalt already has a battery powered stapler, but me or any other electrician I know wouldn't buy it. Why? Because there are a lot of spaces that you couldn't get a big power stapler in to staple lol. Sometimes, spaces are so tight you can't even use a hammer. There's where a pair of lineman come in to staple 🤣. I'll just stick with metal insulated staples. If you know what you are doing, you can staple with a hammer just as fast or even faster imo.

[@kudzem]

Deborah’s nails are like Dragon claws

[@TheREALSimagination]

Id have gone with the triple offer, but hey, as long as theyre doing well, fantastic.

[@plopeye1]

They were fighting there already, thats not what you want as shareholders. I would have done the same as they did...

[@richard7645]

How is this business doing now?

[@EstrelSidus]

You can tell just how much potential money was on the table when the three dragons were willing to only have 10% each. That extra 5% the couple werent willing to give up couldve been dwarfed by the potential revenue that they recieved from the connection that 3 dragons brought to the table. Oh well, as long as the couple is making a profit Im sure they're happy.

[@Viewer19]

Deb got them 350K from 8 investor friends and the USA patent si far.

[@trevornelmes9331]

Nowhere in BS7671 does it state that clips used have to be non-conductive. It does state that cables placed in an area that might be a fire exit access area must be secured in such a way as to stop them dropping and obstructing access (the plastic insulator will burn, allowing the cable conductors to drop). The typical plastic cable clip would not be suitable, and indeed trainee electricians are taught that metal clips should be used, as they are fireproof. Either that or use metal conduit or metal tray systems. I CAN see the clip shown being quite useful in clip direct (method C in the regs), as it would be much faster than using hammer in (nail) plastic clips, but DeWalt already make a stapler (with metal clips) that does this very well indeed. As an electrician, I wouldn't buy this system shown.

[@Robc509]

You sound like you have some electrical experience. They have said in their pitch that apart from the USA and Canada everyone uses 240v however I'm in Sweden and we don't use twin and earth in this form. It's all in wall in flexible conduit or surface mounted flex. I know that Germany also uses the same system as here and possibly a lot more European countries. I'm not sure their market is as big as they think

[@trevornelmes9331]

@@Robc509 USA mainly uses 110V, the UK now uses 230V. In the UK we do use flat twin and earth cable (where the earth is not separately sheathed). Round three core cable (which is available here at nearly twice the price per metre) is rarely used, but seems be be the main choice in most of Europe. The main issue with flat twin and earth is that it is OK for long straight runs, but needs bigger (round) holes to penetrate barriers, is a real pain to place in curves and not so easy to seal as it enters boxes. I would much prefer it was banned and we used round cables.

[@trevornelmes9331]

A few mates niggled me over the use of so-called 'flex' cable (for example 3183Y 2.5mm) instead of Twin & Earth for wiring. Up until the 16th edition of BS7671 it was not permitted. This has led to a lot of older sparks saying it can't be used, even now. Some say it carries less current. It doesn't. It has the same CSA, albeit in thin strands. Technically, stranded wire carries more current at a lower resistance than solid core wires. It DOES need ferrules on the end when in screw in terminals (for sockets I prefer to use the Crabtree Instinct range which uses captured full contact clamps - so the screw does not dig directly in to the wire strands). The outer sheath of 3183Y is much softer, so does not provide as good a mechanical protection as twin & earth, but it's about time we started to use conduit more anyway, as that is far easier to maintain than clip direct. Yes, 3183Y does need to be clipped or run in conduits, but it is now becoming the cable of choice in commercial buildings. If it was unsafe, how come all of Europe, except us, use it in domestic dwellings? There are heavy duty versions of the flex as well.

[@PIXscotland]

Final a voice of reason and knowledge. First thing I thought was for support and need for metal clipping. A useful product but in no way novel or game changing.

[@joefrayling9263]

I use the DeWalt stapler, it's a godsend. I agree I wouldn't buy this system because 1 the staples are plastic so premature collapse isn't taken into account atall and 2 why use a different platform to the one I already use.

[@Connieisland0]

New episode of dragons den is uploaded, I straight away prepare lunch

[@stephenruane670]

Pavlov's Dragon

[@inunison8629]

Does anyone know the name of the audio track they used at 11:33 ? Thanks...

[@bradsmith5758]

Surely with that 3 dragon offer you negotiate with Deborah to bring her stake down😂

[@Kha1id]

They really didn’t think

[@rezamotin7305]

Poor choice, license it out. The moment Hilti, Makita, DeWalt or Bosch hear about this you’re screwed. Pardon the pun.

[@tuilleri]

What does it mean to license it out ?

[@rezamotin7305]

@@tuilleri allowing a third party to sell your product with their name on. In return, you receive a percentage of sale i.e royalty

[@tuilleri]

@@rezamotin7305 when you same name on like , I provide them a shirt and they put a brand on it ?

[@rezamotin7305]

@@tuilleri I don’t think I could’ve made it any clearer

[@tuilleri]

@@rezamotin7305 ….. lol

[@WesD85]

The regulation they are talking about actually states that you need metal supports for cables, not plastic. So if there is a fire, the cables will be held for longer.

[@rocketpropelled]

Yep. Don't think people really understand the amount of thought that goes into construction products. Also this product can be slightly changed and created by all the large manufacturers very easily.

[@HenryOCarmichaelSmith]

How does a plastic clip meet the regulations regarding premature collapse of cabling during a building fire?

[@6zwbob]

how does the plastic clip with at metal nail met that requirements

[@HenryOCarmichaelSmith]

@@6zwbob it doesn't. You need to use metal clips as well

[@InvadersDie]

Would it make sense to require it to hold the cable in place until the building collapses, or just 2-5 times longer than a human could survive?

[@HenryOCarmichaelSmith]

@@InvadersDie I believe it's more to protect fire services going in to tackle the blaze

[@InvadersDie]

@@HenryOCarmichaelSmith Do they risk their lives to pull out corpses?

[@Energyflash1979]

Did any of the dragons attempts actually secure the cable properly? How are those staples in brick mortar?

[@justing5350]

The same as the metal ones they replace lol

[@Mattjammar]

Residential electrical in the U.S. is 240; we just divide it in half at the breaker. Quite a bit of the wiring in a house is 120, but 240 is used for things like HVAC, ovens, clothes driers, etc...

[@NYR2K8]

Should have gone with Tej. Massive licensing agreement out of the box = millions with zero effort.

[@carllennen3520]

Absolutely. Manufaring this as a stand alone brand is idiotic, and a complete waste of time, energy, and capital. License it to the big names. Let them do all the leg work, and just cash the checks. The big brands already have the manufacturing capabilities. They already have the guns, so they would just have to make slight tweaks to already existing tech to use these staples. Really, the ONLY way to make any money off something like this, is licensing. Without that patent though, they have literally nothing. Investment in this is a HUGE risk. Huge returns IF the patent is granted. If it's not, then its money down the drain. Them selling their house to get to this point would have been an enormous red flag for me. Thats boneheaded nonsense to put your house up, when there's no protection what so ever. I hope they pull it off, but there are huge hurdles to clear for them.

[@Sam-qh1sh]

@@carllennen3520 maybe that lazy arse attitude is the reason you’re leaving comments on KZbin and they’re on dragons den.

[@daved5683]

@@Sam-qh1sh that is to harsh tough...why to offend people when we can share ideas improve each other in positive way..

[@mongo4511]

@@Sam-qh1sh you’re right!

[@freezasama5802]

they always rant on about the patent even though it takes years for it to be accepted and there's a long process I thought they would've understood better

[@mcfcguvnors]

not 1 question of how much it sells for or costs to make ,unreal

[@tricktictrip2192]

It is still a tv show

[@flarpman2233]

@@mcfcguvnors A lot of things get edited out, while we tend to see 10-20 minutes of a pitch on the show they're usually there for a couple of hours.

[@peterpan4038]

The best answer to the patent problem in 2021 is: Get the product out as FAST AS POSSIBLE, and make it a brand before a certain Nation throws the knockoffs on the market. A small company can't really enforce a patent, what matters is the customer base prefering the real product, hence to get your product on the market the fastest way possible (ofc without a drop in quality).

[@Eidolon1andOnly]

That's manufactured Television drama for you.

[@mmckenzie8085]

I love it when the tradies come on. They are always so down to earth.

[@madmike987655]

Hmm that's a difficult one. I would have been more inclined to go for the ease and less stress of the experience of 3 dragons for just the 5% more. for only 50k more cost per million profit, having the 2 extra dragons included in that who have power and influence in many different areas I think would have been a smart investment. Nonetheless, a win either way and good luck to them both. I hope they do well.

[@brianb8003]

You think having 3 A-Type personality egomaniacs to negotiate with, balance, and report to would be LESS stress?!

[@hellalive8973]

All the comments saying ‘should have gone with the three’. It won’t be the dragons in the board meetings it will be their teams. That’s 3 sets of representatives all with their own ideas and future plans/expectations. Every time you report your figures, KPI’s etc you have to triple the amount of questions and correspondence. It’s far more time consuming. I’d have gone with just one Dragon personally.

[@HIOP0]

When you produce a product or service that gets at least four dragons offering, then you can make that choice, until then...shut your mouth.

[@mongo4511]

@@HIOP0 hear hear!

[@markstockton571]

Dewalt & Milwaukee already had this product out 3 years ago, prior art nullifies patents.

[@Until_It_Is_Done]

Should've picked the 3 dragons, all day long...

[@richardneville9872]

I think so although they will all have contacts elsewhere

[@haydenellis6045]

All those contacts and an additional 20k for 5%.... I hope it went well for them but damn. Bad decision IMO.

[@NamPham-jk5zc]

Yes, higher potential for a bigger product, exposure, outreach with 3 dragons and all of their contacts/expertise. The couple got hung up about ownership %. One of those spurned dragons is going to get a cheaper version licensed and brought to market first

[@terranceparsons5185]

But none of them are called Deborah or Peter! I agree with you 100%.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

What 'value' does the "dragons" bring to the business? You do realise that they will always take more than they give you. Sleigh the dragons for they are really parasites.

[@Omega_Mark]

They were in a position to negotiate 20% with Deborah. She was surprised when they chose her and with 25%.

[@michaellee8815]

SPOILER BRO!! Lol

[@thealien_ali3382]

Lol

[@MrElectricSkittles]

They should have come back and said, "our decision is to go with the 3 dragons for 100k, unless Deborah would like to drop her stake to 20%".. really wish this happened

[@andrewthomas405]

As an electrician I can say this looks great and the potential to improve on that design . The other thing I can say electrical equipment from the fitting side is really quite piss poor . Electrical design doesn’t take the installation side into account ....I have 45 years experience and I’m still bewildered by the lack of thought practical knowledge the designers have and most of it is plain common sense .Designers should have field experience,just like the guy who designed the clip ...well done ....three cheers 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@ped0000]

I think that logic of field experience for the designers or at least review and feedback from the installers/users, could and should be done for products in all trades. If a product makes a point of naming the designer you can guarantee its going to be an arse to install.

[@carlhartwell7978]

Well, I'm sure they breathed a sigh of relief when Sara added that she'd be willing to share! Not like an offer for 50% of the business was much good for them without sharing now was it? lol.

[@hearmenow909]

30% split between 3 dragons. Where did you pluck 50% from?!

[@carlhartwell7978]

@@hearmenow909 10:57 Re-watch it, she said 'half the money...', then she added, ''I'm willing to share it' That was my joke, she didn't need to add the last bit OF COURSE SHE WAS WILLING TO SHARE. The only reason anyone would ever usually say that is if they offered the FULL amount. because that would be the only time such an option would be necessary. Because the full amount is *needed* for a deal.

[@kevinfish8627]

@@hearmenow909 her original offer was after 2 were at 100% leaving her offering half the money.... 50%

[@FREEFROMITALL]

Toukka is so mad because he knows what just slipped through his hands, over 5%

[@remybuitenhuis2433]

should have gone with the 3, to be honest.

[@genome616]

@2.05 She made a false claim in mentioning fire regulations, these clips would not be suitable where those specific regulations come into play as they are not fire proof and will melt allowing the cable to fall or dangle, I am not taking away from the product itself but if decisions are made based on her pitch then she could be in a legal wrangle if it fails to sell and the investor wants to withdraw, she has given an exit strategy on a plate for them to do so and reclaim their investment.

[@DrRusty5]

I thought the very same.

[@chrisliddiard725]

I think you have to look at the specific product its suppose to replace. The item we saw had a single metal nail, and a plastic holder for the cable. That existing plastic holder would be just as prone to fire. So saying it needs to have a metal nail instead of a platic one isn't really saying much. Also there are plastics which are resistent to heat, silcon or ceramic based plastics would do the job if they could be made hard enough. It really depends on the details of the regulation you are refering to. Maybe it allows for most the cable's lenght to be supported by this product with the occasional metal based support, say every couple of meters.

[@genome616]

@@chrisliddiard725 'It really depends on the details of the regulation you are refering to. Maybe it allows for most the cable's lenght to be supported by this product with the occasional metal based support, say every couple of meters.' In deed the regulation allows for this but that is not what she claimed, you would not even suggest it complies if you need another fire rated product with yours to ensure that, I am aware of this product and it does not meet the claim she made, therefore any agreement made as a legal exit hole because she made a false claim on the product, she has misinterpreted the regulation thinking it simply means you cannot run a loose cable, the regulation is clear in the cable support or containment itself has to maintain support for an extended period in the extreme heat or flame exposure of a fire if surface mounted, this means even if the cable itself has been reduced to its bare copper or the containment melted away that the supports will hold up what is left of the cable to keep them from entangling with the fire brigades equipment which btw is why it was introduced after several events of firepersons dying when their oxygen tanks, head equipment etc got caught in cabling hanging loose. These are not compliant to meet the regulation as she made out thus I stand by my point. PS I am an Electrical Engineer of over 30yrs, I know the specific regulations she refers to and can confidently say it does not meet them as she claims, It is a clear misinterpretation she has made regarding the regs.

[@ashleyable]

Best Den moment in a long time!!!

[@THEREALCUZZI]

I’m so happy for you guys. Well done and all the best ❤❤❤

[@robertpaget809]

You know Dewalt already have an electricians cable tacker and it’s 18v and a trusted brand with build quality in mind

[@Adam-zh4hm]

I know man. And do the staples go into hardwood beams? And do they pin the cables tight to take slack?

[@25is27]

@@Adam-zh4hm Also. when you hit a knot

[@Adam-zh4hm]

@@25is27 exactly. And can you staple the cables close together? I bet the dragons didn't check any of this

[@ahmedpiracha9684]

They should have gone for the triple dragon. It is the whole package with 20,000 more pounds. and 30% stake divided by 3 dragons hence 10% per person. God i was clenching my teeth in that moment

[@Steven-lz7on]

Be quiet

[@thestarshavefallen]

Deborah has too many pies she's running out of fingers at this point. I would have definitely gone with the three.

[@wf3644]

Nah, Deborah is the perfect dragon for this product based on her history. Plus they only have to worry about pleasing one shareholder as opposed to three who may have conflicting opinions on decision making

[@sagarvarsani7367]

In this case 1 dragon was better than 3 in my opinion

[@benbooth2783]

I don't agree, I think Deborah was the better choice. 5% could be a lot of money, also with 3 dragons involved they could potentially get bullied a little bit. Deborah has a history of investing in trade products from the Den.

[@monsterhunterrivi6303]

as an electrician, i am VERY much for SOMEONE investing in this. it's great. it saves a LOT of time, effort - and eventually cost.