Is A 250 Mile Electric Car All You Need In Range?

It get's to the point where the person dictates the maximum range before stopping, not the car. So is 250/300 miles of electric car range the sweet spot in the UK?

[@stevenlawrie7819]

Need reliable rapid charging - need ability to use bank cards rather than apps and multiple cards.

[@stealeyful]

Although I hear that there's a group called InstaVolt who take contactless cards.

[@simonreeves2017]

Steven Lawrie - Yes, you're right, you don't need an app' to buy petrol or diesel, you shouldn't need one to charge an EV. I think there has been recent legislation to force public chargers to accept debit and credit cards which comes into effect in 2020.

[@jzpwhyyouwantmysurname3638]

App is not an issue if you ask me. That's how the world is nowadays. But reliability/availability is a massive issue. Last time I went up M62, pretty much all charge points along the route were broken. We've finally arrived at Silver Birch pub (Engenie point) that saved our life with ~5% to spare.

[@Cloudrak]

Looks like the gov done something, all new rapid chargers now need contactless payment! www.gov.uk/government/news/all-new-rapid-chargepoints-should-offer-card-payment-by-2020

[@kormakid7]

just done northampton to inverness to aberdeen to banff to northampton over the bank holiday weekend in 64kw Kona . 1250 miles Free Charging and stopped every 160 to 200 mies , while eating and comfort break didnt see a problem. Average speed was 60 mph

[@stephenrichards5386]

413 miles per day. Average speed per 8 hr day is 52 mph. Per 10 hr day 41 mph. In my FF car I average 64 mph on the longer trips and don't need to stop. Leisure driving requirements are very different from business.

[@jagmani-pace3545]

Hi 250 is ideal. Need more motorway chargers availble. More competition , more speedy chargers of 100kwh + .

[@manwithcorsae7738]

I'm the wrong side of 60. I find 2 1/2 - 3 hours is enough. 150 miles range with a reliable and easily use charger network is enough for me. Sadly we don't yet have that reliable and easy to use network.

[@scottwills4698]

Hyundai / Kia announced earlier this year that they had an improvement in battery density that will be in their cars in a couple of years. The interviewer said so we’re going to see 350-400mile range Kona’s / e-Niro? The reply was that the physical battery size would reduce saving weight and cost and that they didn’t think people needed cars over 300 mile range.

[@chargingabout]

I only drove 160 miles without stopping in my diesel. That's exactly what I do in the EV on a long trip. Still no home charger! Currently showing 315 miles range in the Kona. Just means I never charge beyond 80%, or take it under 20%, which should be better for the battery

[@heatleynoble]

Last weekend in Kent was an absolute pain. Midhurst and billinghurst fast chargers broken. Need more reliability all round. And often in services with two chargers someone else is charging. Chargers need to be ahead of the game not keeping pace

[@incognitotorpedo42]

The smart people who really know EVs are all asking the same question, and getting the same answer. 250 miles is fine. I've been driving an EV with 215 miles of range for two years and have yet to charge on the road. Obviously, the standard for on-road charging needs to be 100kW+. People who don't drive EV simply don't realize that you fill up your car every night at home. You rarely need to do the equivalent of "going to the petrol station".

[@markmilligan6616]

Factor in over 50 year old bladder - you'll be stopping more often!

[@EgoShredder]

I used to have bladder problems especially at night even in my 20s and 30s (I am nearly 48 now). I solved this ...........by drinking more during the day, but spacing it out equally every 3 to 4 hours, and the same for the toilet use. So I have not had any bladder problems for many years now.

[@johndonaldson5126]

250 is fine if the car can be charged in less than 15 minutes. It's not about range. It's about charge times.

[@RWBHere]

Why 15 minutes? The recommended safety break time after 4 hours of driving a car is 40 minutes. A 45 minute recharge time would inconvenience almost nobody, unless they choose to drive in an unsafe manner. And nobody stands around, doing nothing, while a car is recharging. I've never managed to drive 280 miles (the range of a Kona or eNiro) in 4 hours in Britain. The law does not allow for it, because, even on motorways, you cannot average 70 mph legally, unless you have a way to deny the laws of Physics, by accelerating from 0 to 70 instantaneously, and can find roads with no other traffic or speed restrictions on them. I've carried out traffic surveys, and discovered that, even on dual carriageways with 70 mph speed limits, around my local county, which don't have huge volumes of traffic, the fastest vehicles averaged only about 48 mph. Most car drivers on those types of roads (if they were long enough) could only travel for 160 to 180 miles in 4 hours. And then they will need food, water, relief and a rest. Most EV's can recharge to 80% in under an hour, on appropriate chargers. For a car with a 280+ mile range, that's over 225 miles gained in 60 minutes, and better than 175 miles in 45 minutes. Remember, too, that charging speeds to lower charge levels are higher than that to 80%. So that matches perfectly the requirements of any sensible driver who takes 4 hourly breaks.

[@zaharina82]

@@RWBHere Yes but I don't think a 45min charge of a 50kw charger will top up an almost drained 64kwh battery of this car. That means that I can't agree when they calculate 2 x 250 miles with one charge. Maybe 1.6 x 250 miles or even less as they advised motorway driving is less than 250 range

[@salipander6570]

@@zaharina82 There is no need to fill that 64 kWh to the full, since you'll have plenty of range until the next stop when you or your children want to pee.

[@alaneasthope2357]

@@zaharina82 Don't try to drain the battery. It's not good for it. I drive an Ioniq and look to recharge at 20-25% until the charger starts to ramp down and then move on. Usual stops are no more than 20 minutes.

[@DanielDonciu]

Maybe I understand wrong this whole range anxiety thing, but the thing most problematic is not the 500 km or whatever the car can do on one charge, but the availability of fast chargers on route and placed in convenient locations.

[@calamityjean1525]

@@rayjennings3637 If you leave home with 250 miles of range, you would arrive at your sister-in-law's with about 110 miles of range left. So you would only need to add 50 or 60 miles of range to get home. Different cars charge at different rates, so you'd have to find out how fast one that you were interested in buying was at charging. Could you get access to a higher-amp circuit? Maybe by passing the cord through a dryer exhaust and plugging it in to the dryer's outlet?

[@Bobbleoff]

For the last 2 month I have been resetting my trip computer every Monday to see what range I would need in a future EV purchase. And on average I'm doing 75-100 miles a week. Biggest single drive I've done in that time was 34miles. And I'm sure 50% of the population are in the same boat. I personally would be happy with 150-200 mile range as my once in a blue moon trip to the coast is 80miles each way

[@NigelWickenden]

I get bladder anxiety after 120-140 motorway miles at 70MPH.

[@greglindstrom1705]

same but my bladder empties in under 1 min on side of motorway,

[@NigelWickenden]

@@greglindstrom1705 I'm quite happy to have a 20-30 minute break every couple of hours. I am sure that you and many others are different. I have no problem with that.

[@LeicesterMike]

Actually having owned one for a couple of years cannot see the point in carrying around batteries that can do more than 200 miles with the extra weight that means is worth it. I would rather have the extra efficiency and a faster charging speed.

[@MarkGovier]

Lots of modern ICE cars only have a 300 mile range as they've reduced the tank size to reduce weight.

[@rjbiker66]

But you can fill it up in 5 mins. Who wants to be forced to sit around for well over an hour to refill your 250mi range EV? Charging time is the issue.

[@differenttan7366]

300 is better because in the winter you will lose a good chunk of that buffer, and ranges are rarely calculated for highway miles. Charge speeds need to reach 150-200kw an hour or faster to avoid future congestion at chargers and longer waits, most people stop from 20 -40 mins not over an hour.

[@salipander6570]

Not really. 50 kWh in 30 minutes will do.

[@REV-EV]

P.s. they really need to fit LED interior lights in the eNiro

[@dcvariousvids8082]

Graeme Cobb - You could do that yourself quite easily. And it wouldn’t cost much.

[@tuc-dh4df]

A battery scientist said on another channel, 200 miles 10 minute charge, perfect i would say!

[@ashanmendis1930]

Emergency recharge is key not for every day just in a long journey More recharging spots are also important

[@gregcollins3404]

I say people will tend to find it wonderful to be "forced" to "stop and smell the roses" when they travel. There are a lot of good things to do along the way. Its not a bad thing to slow down our hectic modern pace and spend some time along the way doing something nice..... This concept of a car needing at least 300 miles of range is a myth. We definitely need a much more robust charging infrastructure though...

[@SteveBirkett]

The joy is in the journey :-)

[@howardrichburg2398]

I'm in the USA. When I was a kid I the 60/70s and we travelled cross country, wecstopec at all sorts of roadside shops. All had a type of museum or petting zoo or a tourist shop. Saw my first buffalo at on place in Arizona. You get to see your country and meet interesting people. I think people were nicer then. Even I the USA a 300 mile car with adequate charging is the key. 300 miles, that's like 6 hours . Who can hold in the coffee for that long? No human.

[@jdonalds2001]

We take 2 1,100 mile trips each year. Normally we drive the 550 one way in about 10 hours with gas station stops. There is no easy we would put up with 2 or 3 two hour stops to charge.

[@estelinet]

@@jdonalds2001 why would charging take 2-3 hours? I've never needed more than 40 minutes

[@tastytechaddictsmtb]

@@jdonalds2001 why would you not fly ?. I went skiing last week 900 miles away, I was there in a hour and a half. If I had driven I would have paid vastly more in fuel, car wear and road taxes as well as ferry cost. The flights cost me the price of a cheap meal out

[@parthasarathyvenkatadri]

what if cars had an optional removable batterry pack that could add say 150 miles of range but it is completely optional you can rent the battery pack just for long rides and you can also swap them on the go ... it would keep the basic car cheaper and also have longer rides ..

[@crashbox7130]

The most I've ever driven on the same day is 600 miles from Worcestershire to Wick, on my way to Orkney. I did that in my classic Citroen 2CV with a 25 litre (5.5 gallon) petrol tank. At motorway speeds of 65-70mph it'll do about 220 miles, or two bladder breaks. So 250 miles is more than plenty. Oh... and it took me 12hrs to cover 600 miles.

[@computerbob06]

It's not a question of range, it's charge time. I would have to stop on a journey above 250 miles, but it would only be for 15 to 20 minutes. You could have a car with only 150 mile range but if it took 3 minutes to charge it, you could do a 500 mile trip with ease!

[@barrierodliffe4155]

The average journey of 250 miles will probably take about 5 hours, I wouldn't do that without a stop. You might say " I do 70 or 75 mph all the way" good luck with that. If you have an EV with a range of 250 miles then say you stop for 30 mins after 200 miles, then stop again after 400 miles but this time you do not need to got to 80% so only 20 minutes stop. Charging times are coming down, the Ioniq 5 can charge in 18 minutes.

[@quadswallop2713]

The real same is, 100 miles ample for most of us but people are obsessed with range when it doesn't matter. I would opt for a lighter, more efficient car with less range now, rather than carrying batteries I don't need.

[@richardgreen4424]

You are asking the wrong question the question should be where are the furvest charging points from current destination versus closest

[@anthonyc8499]

The answer is another question - does your destination have electricity? If yes, then you're good. You can trickle charge at 3-5mi per hour plugged in or at 24+ miles per hour on a dryer outlet. I don't have a L2 charger but have hosted an EV that just plugged into my dryer plug overnight. It was eye-opening.

[@VJW1407]

I have an Ioniq with a real life range of 240km summer range. Although more range would be nice, the charge speed means that it’s never been a problem. I have done many long distance trips of 900km in a day and my longest trip to date was 6750km from Munich to mid Norway and back. The Norway trip cost just €100 in power! Most recharges take about 20 mins which is a tea and a pee break. Super.

[@ainhatda8807]

I can only say " wow" . I just got 2019 ioniq ev in may . I will try that kind of trip in the west coast of canada soon !!!!

[@chrisabbott683]

For me a range over 300 miles, certainly in Europe, is unnecessary IF the charging infrastructure is right. For the vast majority 250 is plenty. The debate should, and I think will, move to charging speed and availability. Advances in battery technology should focus on charging rate. If I could buy a genuine 250 mile EV that on a long trip I could charge from 10% to 90% in 30 mins that would be perfect. The other huge issue is day to day charging for the many people with no off street parking.

[@AndyPandy33]

Europe maybe doesn't need 500 mile range but we do need faster charging. USA on the other hand, outside of big cities they do need range in that massive country.

[@jaroessa294]

...and that is why 98% of Americans bought ICE vehicles in the U.S. in 2018 and snubbed EV's. They just aren't "there" yet to be a 100% lateral replacement for ICE vehicles. Once a car manufacturer - and it may not be Tesla - steps forward with an equally priced EV (when compared to ICE cars), a 400 mile range, and a 5-10 minute recharge time, then....THEN, you may see people taking them more seriously.

[@stephenboyd897]

The road safety recommendation in Australia is to stop every 2 hours. That is about 220 km or 150 miles.

[@barrierodliffe4155]

Or more like 100 miles if there is much traffic.

[@ricco123tube]

Now they do over 250 miles I’m actively looking around and waiting for the right car and time.

[@nothandmade9686]

I know. But the waiting lists are getting nuts.

[@robmog88]

The ev experience in Milton Keynes offer tests of 3 or 4 days for approx £75 I think, that’d be enough to convince most people of it works.

[@weleshboatian5159]

Thats where I started. now rent an Ioniq, 4 the same as I used tooooo spend on petrol

[@bobchambers6952]

I stop very 2 hrs. I find that driving at 60 mph on the motorway after 2hrs it's just good to stop and have a walk a round go to the loo have a drink and by that time the car is charged. I've got a 30kw Nissan leaf.

[@johnwhite5555]

250 seems perfectly reasonable to me. Said with feeling by an ex HGV and PSV driver who became a touring musician. 8 hrs driving.......pfffffffttt easy peasy............hang on a sec whilst I alter me log book. ;) I have a 30KW Leaf which I use to go from Norfolk to Cornwall fairly regularly. According to the electronic wizardry on the dash I go 5 miles approx to a KW,/KW/hr/whatever. Ok I avoid motorways like the plague so it takes me an hour and a bit longer than it would using t'motorway. My last trip cost me £10 approx for "fuel" (murky buckets Lidl and Polar/Holiday Inns), Now I arsks ya, which decent hard working Yorkshire/Jewish lad would look a saving of around £100 gift 'orse in t'gob. ;)

[@Porrohman19]

Personal opinion is 300 miles is the ideal point, bearing in mind the general suggestion is to re-charge to 80%. I'd prefer not to go much below 10% charge remaining before getting to a charger. Also take into account potential reduced range in winter. So, although a car may have a 300 mile range, in practice, this may be 300 - 60 - 30 - 15 = 195 miles of range, which would be enough for me between stops (around 3+ hours), re-charging back to 80%.

[@TheAegisClaw]

250 motorway miles at 70mph, then yes, that's plenty.

[@FieryToast1]

I agree and also to add to your point in the winter as well as summer.

[@ruedigerpreiss9307]

agreed. that'd have to be an EV with a declared mileage of 320ish. Because as temperature drops under 10C I don't get 250 miles on motorway with my Kona. i'd be happy with my 200 miles if there was a better network of decent chargers!

[@justcallmejohn2833]

My EV is rated with a 238 mile range but it will not go that far at 70 mph and as for low temperature the range will drop even more. To get a real 300 mile range at high speed and below zero temperatures you will need a battery with over 100 kWh.

[@erikstephens34]

I just drove from Ontario, Canada to Orlando Florida and back in our Chevrolet Bolt EV which has a US EPA rated range of 238miles. And we did it with no issues. Didn't need more range. My bladder isn't that big.

[@nigelweir3852]

250 miles and charging speed of 150kw charge speed , average 100kw from 10-80 %, more slow chargers 22kw ac standard

[@ashanmendis1930]

More charging stations

[@stevecraft00]

I keep seeing these crazy numbers for charging speeds. Bear in mind these massive chargers need their own connection to a substation! Single phase supply to your house maxes at 20kw if you are lucky. Standard 3 phase supply on the local ring main is 60kw max.

[@ashanmendis1930]

@@stevecraft00 sorry you dont need fast charging at home you just need to top up daily use so 3kw would be enough 7kw would be great

[@stevecraft00]

@@ashanmendis1930 I know. I was pointing out the infrastructure needed for such an immense amount of power in one place. Its not simply a case of running a wire from the nearest underground cable, you need a cable from a substation. Which then may need to be upgraded depending on its load. So those saying "throw in more 100kw chargers" etc... Its not quite that simple.

[@blobstrom]

250 miles @ 70mph would be ideal for me I think. My BMW 5 series will do 600 miles, the furthest I’ve gone in that in one hit is 190 miles. My BMW bike will struggle to do 140 miles, after 50 miles I’m ready for a break. Strangely the indicators don’t work on either 😂 (i had to get that in there before someone else)

[@be236]

Yeah, I think 250-mile range car is bare minimum... and I think 300-mile range car for some range buffer would be the sweet spot.

[@ashanmendis1930]

More 150-200kw charging spots is as important so no detours needed to recharge and no waiting to chargeing

[@homomorphic]

This is the biggest myth of all time. The etron which charges at 160 miles in 30 minutes *at a 150kW charger* whereas my Chevy Bolt can add 100 miles range in 30 minutes *at any DCFC* Why? Because the Bolt gets 4mi/kWh whereas the etron gets 2.4mi/kWh.

[@TheJAMF]

My back of the envelope calculation says 340 miles of range is ideal. You can charge (the fastest) from 10% to 80% and go another 240 miles.

[@svenwesterlund3405]

Disagree, driving long range non-stop is not a good thing if you have to do it often. Been there, done that for work on a regular basis and hate it. In my dreams a camper van with 100 miles range si the sweet spot.

[@TheJAMF]

@@svenwesterlund3405 You're free to disagree/have your own ideal situation. In my case, I visit family once a year and I do the trip over in 2 sections of 4 hours. Back is the same. So for that one time in the year, it would be nice if I could get a car with that range.

[@christill]

250 is 190 more than my current car, which I have no problems with. And there are almost certainly millions of people who fit a similar low mileage profile to me. So then we’ll end up with a huge number of people charging once a week or even once a fortnight. Wasting batteries that could have gone into motorcycles, ebikes, scooters etc or into static storage. For that reason, the idea of selling a 300 mile range car as a runabout is quite ridiculous in my opinion.

[@robsmith1a]

I think add another 50 miles to cover loss of range in the winter.

[@dennisbjergmadsen5163]

Robert Smith Dont think its the range but the charging. If the CAR could charge in 5 min Then the range dont have to be more then 250 miles.

[@robsmith1a]

@@dennisbjergmadsen5163 I think that is also true. If a car goes 300 miles on a charge I think speed of charge hardly matters for most people but if you could charge it in no time then a range of 250 miles would be perfect (my Zoe will do 180 miles or so on a run in summer and that means I have to stop for 20 minutes on a 200 mile round trip, recent purchase of a mains charging plug means I can usually top up at my destination though).

[@onewheelnut]

Can I address the elephant in the room , what are you driving ? You two remind me of the innocence of Morecambe and wise in bed together all those years ago

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Kia e-Niro.

[@davethefab6339]

Just been to Oban from York and back and had to stop 3 times each way for food, rest and to rest my tired brain. Shame I can’t afford an EV though,

[@HandyC]

Dave Barnes second hand zoe is only 5k

[@svenwesterlund3405]

Used to drive taxis in northern Sweden, often doing 500 miles per shift. 250 miles is plenty becouse you should stop and get a break even earlier. I personally drive Leafs and Ioniqs, in my opinion they have enough range.The problem is charging speeds in regions where there´s no rapid chargers. In many countries you could use three phase outlets, let the cars have three phase onboard chargers ffs.

[@FlexDRG]

A lot of countries (USA, UK and more) have just 1phase connections. That is why most brands only make/install 1phase chargers. I must say that it would make sense for (home) charger manufacturers to make chargers that would turn 3phase power into the DC speed charge outlets. Enabling rapid DC charging at home/work...

[@nigelweir3852]

More reliable chargers , credit card payment,solidstate battery would be nice ,cake

[@Mrflash222006]

Ah the Yorkshireman strikes again, too tight for 2 rooms or a twin, who’s playing the John candy roll then

[@BernardSamson-hf6fc]

As much as I like EVM - and I do like watching all his video's - I always find he is justifying buying a EV. Manufacturer's should be doing this instead. Why for instance is the ZS EV £6,450 OTR more expensive than the Petrol auto equivalent? that would mean about 65,000 miles (at average 3.8ppm cost) to recoup outlay. Manufacturer's charge what they think they can get away with. When Government gives grant, the manufacturer just adds this to their cost of car. When you go into a dealer to buy a car they ask you what you can afford. Then show you everything above that price and push finance, leasing etc. Insurance companies should set prices - as if you write off your car see what they will give you for it. 40% less than you paid. So do they know something we don't?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Batteries are currently more expensive than an engine and they’re making about 1% of the amount of EVs compared to ICE so the economies of scale haven’t kicked in yet. It’s not a conspiracy.

[@BernardSamson-hf6fc]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Hi thanks for the reply. I understand the economies of scale etc. I have worked in (motor) trade for forty years - the last twenty with VW - I now teach at College and looking to teach EV's to students. Since giving up working with VW my mileage has dropped to around 8,000 miles P.A. The thing is VW deliberately keep costs high. If you look at their part numbers for instance the starting digits (6N Polo, 5K Golf etc) are the fund in which some of the cost of that part go back into - meaning that all the R & D is paid back. So why should i pay them say £6,500 over the odds when they will recoup this research and development over lifetime of vehicle model? Perhaps you could question some manufacturers on this. Keep up the good work. BTW is this your full time job?

[@dizzyikea]

I saw an interesting headline today "ev chargers overtake petrol stations" 8400 petrol stations in the uk to 8417 public chargers. Thats great i love it but lets not get to excited each of those petrol stations has 4-10 outlets most the ev chargers have 1-2. i think the ev chargers where at 13k so most at 2. Where the numbers a little off though? I think they have taken multiple chargers at on place as a "station" each which is a little unfair. Still good to see the media say something positive about ev's for once.

[@jbbevan]

I have a Bolt which in moderate weather really will get about 240 miles of range (essentially the EPA rating). 99% of the time my driving on any given day is less than that so I can do all my charging at home at a KWH price such that EV "fuel" only costs about 20% of what ICE fuel costs (in the United States). So it makes no economic sense to spend a few thousand dollars extra if I could get 350 miles instead...why? ... because whatever the marginal cost of that extra 100 miles is needs to be paid for (amortized) by less than 1% of my driving demand (obviously I'm not a traveling salesman). So the answer is a resounding YES based on 12K miles of Bolt experience 250 milrs of range is all I need to pay for. If battery cost came down so that I could get 350 miles for the same price, I'd buy it...but not because I "need" it ... but because I can. Meanwhile the Bolt and I are getting on very very well indeed (had a BMW-i3 for the three years prior to the Bolt).

[@thelondonbroiler]

Totally agree (I've only done 7k miles in my two months of ownership). At least double the fast charging speed would make it much more ideal for road trips.

[@jbbevan]

@@thelondonbroiler I fully agree with that. Faster charging would be much more attractive to me than range beyond my current 240 to 270 miles (in moderate weather).

[@PabloTBrave]

I think you are right. 250 miles motorway speed in winter is all you need as you would stop anyway. Having said that repeating "for the single journey of the year " is annoying and isn't helpful or valid, for a one car family if it can't do what you need it to do it's no use. 250 winter motorway miles is all what 90% of people will need more so when we have more and faster chargers

[@tonezoneuk]

To appeal to long range commuters, you have to consider they shoot along motorways at 80 or 90mph. These people will want to do the same if they changed to electric. Figure in the cold and wet, and the fact that these drivers probably like it snugly warm, then a 250 mile car will become a 130 - 150 mile car. You won't appeal to these people right now. Everyone else, 250 miles is a sweet spot.

[@barrierodliffe4155]

80 to 90 mph is illegal in Britain and in some other countries. 200 miles range is plenty for me.

[@Walterp60]

One they suggest 10% to 80% is range to keep battery happy. So 70% of 250 is 175 miles. Secondly after 175 how likely you will near an available fast charger. Ie not being used or iced. Still I'm going for long range model 3. 70% is over 210 Miles. So most of round trips covered without needing to charge.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

You don’t need to stick to the 10-80% on on trips like this, perfectly fine to use most of the ‘tank’.

[@stevejones8665]

How many driver's travel the equivalent of London to Manchester or Liverpool in a day, let alone do the return journey. A lot of drivers never go more than 50 Miles from there home town.

[@hamshackleton]

For me, MOST of the time 50 miles is plenty, but if I want to go for a scuba-dive on (say) Anglesey, It's 115 miles each way, and there is no charger near the beach, so a bit extra for diversions, and I'd need 130 x 2 = 260 miles to be sure of making the round trip, without sitting in a car-park staring at nothing, for an hour. Once in a while, I go from Manchester to Ware, in Herts, I've not bothered looking for chargers on that run, as I don't have an EV yet. Lat time I looked, there was ONE charger round the back of a Supermarket in Holyhead,, but it was broken!

[@Stune5]

Currently my view is 250 to 300 is ideal, but as the infrastructure improves the requirement for range drastically reduces. My current car has 188 miles of WLTP range which just about makes the weekly commute, but doing a 300 mile journey without it adding on serious time to the journey is not a comfortable experience for two reasons: 1 poor charger reliability/ accessibility, 2 lack of chargers. When there are only 2 Ecotricty chargers on a 120 mile stretch you start to worry, what if the charger doesn’t work? Could it be ICED? Could it be occupied? In my experience one of the three is more likely than not, so from that perspective relying on external networks is currently far from ideal. It doesn’t take too much to to start feeling the range anxiety. Home charging on the other hand is fantastic! It will save you lots of time and you will wonder how people with ICE’s ever got used to having to go out to refuel.

[@mschiller3]

Even in the United States 250 is plenty. However there are two problems: 1) Availability of DC fast charging. From my home the nearest charger is 90 miles heading east. It's about 100 North and South, but it's 200 heading west.... That's unacceptable.. ( new stations are supposed to open soon that will resolve this, thanks to lawsuits over the VW emissions scandal, Electrify America has stations opening soon in both the West and East direction that will fix the spacing problem in NY State) 2) My 240 mile EV will probably only get 150 when it's -25c especially at 70mph I'm currently on the West headed trip, we made it to the Fast charger but only had about 23 miles left and that was on a 20C day

[@dg115]

The problem is not enough rapid chargers at the moment that are reliable. 250 miles is plenty in the UK.

[@TheBeggFamily]

At my age, I have to stop for a least a short break every hour or max 2! My petrol and diesel cars have generally done around 300mi before needing refuelling. So your 250 is pretty close. Mind you my upcoming first electric will do 180 in the winter and 240 in the summer, so its not there either.

[@noseonscent1935]

No it is decidedly not. I am surprised you guys feel that it is. Tesla Roadsters 2.0 has a stated range of 600. With battery tech improving from lab to street in about every 4-5 years now it is only an amount of very finite time until we have 1000 mile range. The future looks bright indeed.

[@TheEVside]

Great episode chap, for me 200 miles is ideal

[@FancyaBevMate]

LoL id fly or train those journeys so its a mute point especially when the savings could even pay for a taxi driver to take the strain for you "hint hint" :)

[@tastytechaddictsmtb]

My petrol car only does 425miles from new anyway and don’t think I’ve ever in my life driven through the whole tank non stop.

[@yorkshireman6650]

I have a Citroen i fill it up once a month so to me the Nissan leaf or the Renault Zoe would be a good choice i have driven a jaguar i pace Tesla model x i keep coming back to a Nissan leaf i think that would do me for now more charging points are needed in city centre and on our motorways where we can plug into without an stupid app so for me to replace my car i like theses 2 Nissan Leaf or the Renault Zoe i know everyone wants a Tesla model 3 but i think Tesla is in trouble there shares have gone right down all so there not has reliable has everyone thinks they are i know someone who has a Tesla he had stearin rack problems in the end he got a Nissan Leaf 300 miles range is good enough but your Nissan Leaf would do me for now i would like a transit size electric van for my antiques but i understand that the range is not there yet great video keep up the good work

[@stevenbarrett7648]

We have a 180 mile Zoe and know for our longer range trips we need a 300 mile minimum range as we don’t want to depend on public chargers and know 300 does all our home to coast to home trips, apart from that the 180mi Zoe is fine

[@christill]

But there are so many public chargers now. You can easily depend on the network.

[@emmaatkinson4334]

I would think 200 miles from 80% to 20%. The 20% at each end would be contingency covering the risk the charging point is not working for you.

[@robnelson7818]

Next door neigbour reversed in to our 2 year old i3 REX . No panel damage, just deep scratches in the paint on driver's door. BMW said it had to be repaired by a BMW Level 2 bodyshop to preserve warranty because it had to be dismantled to check for any damage to the battery etc. Took a week to repair and the quote for the repair alone was over £1600. With car hire (took over a week) and out of pocket expenses it cost next door's insurance about £2500. For a deep scratch! I'm surprised the insurance is not more. Insurance is about £350 a year which compares well with our 8 year old BMW 320D (£390 a year), albeit with 15k miles a year and full business cover compared to the 5k miles on the i3 with just SDP and commuting.

[@iainmackie7064]

My EV has a range over 200 miles. But I don’t know what the actual figure is. Driving an EV means NOT driving from full to empty. Why? Because the charge speed varies. The fuller the battery, the slower the speed. So I tend to drive for a couple of hours, so about 120-130 miles. A charge speed between 50-90kW means there is enough for the next 120 miles in about 40 minutes, ie a comfort break and a coffee. The car is always ready before we are. And as charging happens whilst we are having the comfort break and a coffee, it never feels like we are having to stop to charge. And it’s a much more relaxed, so safer, way to travel. We drove from Scotland to Naples and back using this method. So my view is, 200 mile range works, 250 miles just gives a larger buffer.

[@folksinger2100]

You have 2 drivers, swap over. Just read in the Sunday paper 02/06/19 about the Jag I-Pace, price £58,500 with a charge time up to 13 hours. If you can find a 100kw point its still 40 min. It really needs the charging infrastructure first and that must be European wide. In other words, more chargers, 1 plug type for all EV's and all chargers at 100kw max. BTW constant charging at max rate, what is the long term affect on the EV power pack? One point I will agree with is as soon as they can cut the charge time to 5min then I would be interested. By the way what can you tow with an EV?

[@electricnomadic9634]

Great conversation. 👍🏼 You guys pretty much nailed it. 300 mile range is the sweet spot. No real need for more. Especially when the technology to quick charge in a few minutes becomes a reality. Then a 500 mile range becomes kinda pointless. I am waiting for the VW electric ID BUZZ. It’s suppose to have up to 350 mile range & a 30 minute quick charge. Plus it’ll be great for camping. To me the perfect electric car. But it won’t be here until 2022.

[@dcvariousvids8082]

There’s a semi regular trip I do, 242 door to door. But there’s not a charger, (public or private) at either end. So I’d have to stop part way. I normally do the trip non-stop. But I really need a break after and don’t do any driving till the day after. So I suppose a break midway, would make a slightly more relaxing trip and I could be in better shape at the end. But there does need to be a reliable public network, with backup chargers in cases of charger breakdown or there bringing another charging EV. I had considered 230mi in all weathers, which would do for 95%. But 300mi would match 100% if my trips, with a bit to spare for contingencies.

[@alanjrobertson]

250 fine but remember for those of us that can't charge at home range isn't just for a long journey, it's also for how many journeys you can do in a week before having to visit a public charger - an extra 100 miles could make a big difference. My existing ICE has ~500 mile capacity. I often drive 70-130 miles in a day. So sure I'm well under 250 miles a day but in a week that extra battery capacity could save extra charging detours.

[@emmadunlop5123]

This whole conversation regarding 500 mile range before people will be looking at buying an EV is the same conversation I have daily with my boss ever since I ordered my EV. He has a Jag and has a view on EVERYTHING!!!, I am glad I am not the only person who feels they need to justify the choice for buying an EV over a Petrol Car. I loved my old car but I felt now would be a good time to give electricity a go seeing as the network is improving daily in the UK, :)

[@dwc1964]

I take 2 long road trips each year from San Francisco - one to Los Angeles (or sometimes San Diego or other SoCal location) for a weekend meeting, and one to Washington for vacation/visiting family. I've done this on a BMW RT about 20 of the last 25 years. I get 250-300 miles out of the 6-gallon tank and that is indeed just exactly the right distance between mandatory stops. If someone would make an electric version of the RT with similar capabilities, and the ability to charge from flat to 80% in 1/2 hour or so - *AND* a ubiquitous roadside diner chain were to install numerous fast charging stations in all of their parking lots - that would make refueling *less* inconvenient and time-consuming than petrol - as I would simply plug the bike in while I stop for a meal, and we can both refuel at the same time, and forego the separate stop at a petrol station. Fortunately for you cage-drivers, you have that range capability now; it only remains for some said diner chain to realize that eventually, and perhaps sooner than most folks imagine, *all* vehicles will be electric, and set out to future-proof their infrastructure.

[@jaroessa294]

This wouldn't work for a vast majority of people in the U.S. The size of the country makes our travel distances greater, as everything is very spread out. Wasting an hour+ to wait for a charge is not ideal, and won't be tolerated by most here. For an 8-hour trip, most will stop at the 4-hour mark, for a quick piss and a quick drink/snack, all this while you have the nozzle in the car and it is auto-filling. 10-15 minutes tops to do all that. The limited range coupled with very slow recharge times are 2 of the 3 reasons that keep most people away from EV's.

[@FlexDRG]

Has anyone done the math for the following? How many cars does a city fuel station service a day (or better per hour peak) and what is the average time per vehicle? Compare that to what it would take to charge an EV (only getting 80% range instead of 100% for the ice cars)... And what does that do, power wise? How many chargepoints would that station need instead when 80+% that use the station are EV's? And what about highway stations? I can't fuel at home or work, nor charge. So I would have to rely on a charge station. Most places I spent any significant time are grocery shops. But those places that I frequent don't have any chargepoints. I'm not willing to hang about a fuel station for 30+ minutes. I can get fuel done in less than 5 upto 15minutes if it is busy. Carparks at grocery stores need lots and lots of chargepoints (low-speed and high-speed). Places like tourist attractions (attraction parks etc) where you often get after a long drive and spend several hours should have lots and lots of chargepoints. No need for 50kwh rapid chargers here, a 6-11 kwh charger will do... Investing in that kind of network ahead of time is key in getting more EV sales. Especially with governments setting targets for the end of sales for ice vehicles (2030?) And thereby the phasing out of ice car usage. As for powering all those ev's...any numbers on the TWh that would be needed to be generated? What the peak power would be as people would stop to charge on their way home after work (at the grocery store)... we would need to build a lot more power stations solar and wind will help, but it would need to be stored/buffered as their power delivery is not constant enough. Putting (end of use car packs) batteries at carpark chargers could absorb "over production" of solar and wind power, and than use the battery to charge the cars. At which time the network is also less used to supply the power in peaks but at a lower, more constant rate ...can the (local) power network even deliver so much power? I bet every place (older than 2 years (probably even places build today)) would need new power cables. Even homes. Especially homes, as countries like the Netherlands want to stop with gas. Needing to warm your house and water electrically. A normal family home would need about 50kwh capacity extra for heating and warm water and cooking. Add a 22kw charger for an EV and your power lines will meltdown. Eg: You are heating your house (winter), 1 in the shower, another doing the dishes. Putting the kettle on for some after dinner tea, car is charging (you need it charged to get to your sports/hobby location in a bit), lights are on and so is the telly etc. and the meter will go crazy.... Multiply that by so many households.... We need 3 or 4 times the power production than we have now. Think of the great and powerful nation that is America.... They have (rolling) brownouts in summer already because they don't produce enough power and/or can't deliver enough everywhere... Add the power needs of Ev's (and electric for gas replacement) to that... (Lots of places currently don't have gas anyways). I don't think the US and many other countries are ready for EV to be 20% of the vehicles on the road. Let alone 80 to 100%. How long does it take to build a power station? A clean power station (nuclear I guess as that does not generate co2 when making power, but for guttfeeling only is a no go) or even to put up enough solar and wind and the buffer capacity needed for those 2 systems to be a reliable supply?

[@hugodrax3431]

My current ICE has a real world range of about 350 miles and I almost always fill up at my local supermarket. Refuelling elsewhere is either because I forgot to fill up when setting off and the tank is low or, about twice a year, I’m on holiday away from home. With an EV with a 250 to 300 mile range I will be topping up at home mostly. With a couple of public charging stops each year. Can’t wait for my EV to arrive.

[@desiv1170]

Yeah, my wife and I took our first EV trip a couple of months ago. My Bolt is usually just my commuter car, as I have 120 mile round trip. But we decided to take the Bolt to visit my family who live about 300 miles away. As others have said, over 200+ miles, it's not about range, it's about infrastructure and charging speed. For our trip, the Bolt and the Electrify America infrastructure was perfect. About halfway down, we stopped for lunch and charged while eating. When we were done with lunch, the car was about 85%, which was plenty to get us down to where we were staying. There wasn't destination charging at the hotel we were staying, but just across the road. So I was able to get back to full while we were there and for the trip back up. On the way back, same stop to charge for lunch (different restaurant tho). When we were done with lunch, the car had plenty to get us back. I would wager that even in the winter with the heater, we would have been fine for this trip. So the Bolt in our area is great for all my commuting and the odd trip. Same or faster than and ICE car for us. Now, that wouldn't be the same for long road trips, and the aggressive charging taper in the Bolt means trips long enough to have to stop and charge multiple times would be slower than an ICE. Quicker and more charging infrastructure will help, but for a lot of people (not everyone yet), a 200+ mile EV is fine.

[@salipander6570]

Everything is settled when you have 250 miles of range and paying is done by identifying the car when plugging in (like Tesla supercharger). The 250 mile range is also more than adequate for long journeys anywhere, in any up-to-date infrastructure country, because recharging stops coincide with the need to stop anyway. More range doesn't give you that much more comfort. Just try with abetterrouteplanner!

[@bryancole7002]

Recently traveled to Holland with my Mitsubushi PHEW and for he first time found no electric charging points work! Why? Because they won't accept UK debit or credit cards! First time I have been glad of the petrol back up!

[@NorthernMonkeeUK]

I don't think the issue is range of the vehicle (300 miles would probably be perfect), it's the charging infrastructure and charging times - I do a 150 mile journey 3-4 times a week, which would be no problem for most electric cars. The problem is that when I get to the destination after those 150 miles there's no charging facilities, so with the infrastructure as it is, I'd need the car to be capable of doing the next 150 miles to get me home - therefore needing a minimum total range of 300 miles. The "you need to stop for a pee on a long journey" argument doesn't stack up here, I can easily do 150 miles without the need to stop (as can most people), therefore with an electric car I'd have to take a detour out of my way and stop for 20-30 minutes in order to charge - adding extra time and inconvenience to my journey. If that detour was only a quarter of a mile out of my way and was only for 5 minutes (like filling up a petrol car) or I was able to charge at my destination, then it wouldn't be an issue. If they get that sorted, I'd make my electric car my daily driver, but until then it sits on the driveway for shorter journeys (or journeys where there's known charging infrastructure) and the V6 gets to do its job and burn some dinosaurs for another day.

[@tiwoody]

I’m longing to get an EV. Currently burning 300 miles of petrol a week. Average around 40 miles a day. Unfortunately have to keep the tank full as I don’t have many petrol stations near me. An EV would probably cut my miles so so much. Even more if I could camp out / sleep in the back. Any suggestions?

[@ltrtg13]

If you are using a vehicle with a tacho. You can have break or breaks after which you must have at least 45 minute of break after no more than 4.5 hours. This can be one 45 minute break. One 15 minute break and one 30 minute break. I know the vehicle could go for 4.5 hours. I cannot. My range is about 1.5 o 2 hours. Plus looking at the back end of the lorry in front gets really boring, really quickly.

[@jaybenny7719]

As a reformed sales rep and later in construction I could cover 60k a year. I know this is exceptional for most people’s use. Once or twice a week I would leave super early and blaze along at 70 mph for 250 -300 miles aiming to get through congested areas before peak traffic. Stopping only when needed or if not time sensitive I would stop to eat and rest during rush hour traffic. For these roles I would need a car that could travel 380 miles on the motorway in wet at winter and have quick reliable access to very rapid chargers wherever I hit severe congestion. I love my i3, but I hate driving a diesel tractor for up to 7-8 hours a day.

[@mattwalker6133]

50 Mi for a commuter (2nd car, daily charge) and 200 Mi for use as a main car. However for me the problem is affordability, you can pick up a 2nd hand car for a couple of thousand that can easily do over 300 Mi, maybe when EV's are older and cheaper for 2nd hand users it'll be easier to justify. If you have the money to buy a new EV or use funny money 200Mi is plenty.

[@FlexDRG]

You were talking about the traveling salesman and that they make multiple stops on an 8-10hour day. That is correct, but those stops would be at (potential) clients. Not sure in you know industrial estates, but you'd be hard pressed to find a charger there. Let alone in front of most every client. Meaning that they would have to take charge stops, not working clients. Although it could be said that they can use that time to take missed calls, contact the office, workout quotations etc... But it could also mean that they can't squeeze in one more visit per day, on the 3 or 4 travel days they have in a week (1 or 2 office days a week)...

[@wobby1516]

If you only charge to 80% and discharge to 20% then a car with a 250 mile range has a real world range of 150mile. If you charge to 100% but only discharge to 20% the the range is 200mile. Advice is don’t charge to 100% to often and who waits until empty before refuelling.

[@franciswynn1929]

300 miles with charging that can be done in 40 mins for about the once a month trip we do. I find that by the time you’ve made yourself and the kids comfortable, queued for ridiculously overpriced food and eaten that food you’ve spent about 40 mins in the service station. The rest of the time wouldn’t bother me as I can charge at home and it’s the same principle as putting my phone on charge at the end of the day. I realise there are about 40% of the country who don’t have on street/home charging but having a range of 600 miles wouldn’t eliminate that issue

[@stephenrichards5386]

The range is not the most significant parameter after all, even a fossil fuel car has limited range. The most important problem is the time to 'fill the tank'. I make a journey of 1200kms twice a year. It takes me about 11 or 12 hours with one fill but then I do not have to fill the tank again for another 1000kms. When EVs can do that I'll buy one if it's the same price or cheaper than a FF vehicle and can carry the same payload .

[@usaverageguy]

I have come to the conclusion that the 238 mile Chevy Bolt is enough range for me. Looking at the trips I have taken over the last 4 years. It is clear that the Bolt's range works for 99% of my driving. And will only add about 45 minutes to the longest trip I have taken.

[@stephaniealdridge4964]

We live in the far southerly part of Cornwall we have a 24kw leaf with a max range of 80 miles, We have never suffered range issues we slow charge at home occasionally fast charge when out we drive to the Midlands often Twice we have travelled 900 plus miles its comfortable dirt cheap and easy on motorways to find charge points We are both retired and love the tech a 40kw leaf would take far longer to charge and we feel would be overkill for our way of life we charge cheap rate at night and use the car every day. When we leave we normally have around 74 mile at 80% but that's available every day. All this range issue is in people's heads.

[@REV-EV]

When there are many more rapid and destination chargers pretty much everywhere, and a universal payment method, then hands down ICE cars are beaten. I would say 400 miles of range to get reps interested. For the likes of me, 300 miles means easy U.K. holidays with little worry. For those without access to a home charger, a larger battery would be convenient and a rapid charge at a supermarket once a week may be all they need.

[@TheOilBurner]

250 miles is great for most people. For towing I could with 500 just because pulling the caravan tends to double consumption and I don't fancy trying to charge with the van on. But I conceed that's a minority concern

[@yvs6663]

350 miles is about the furthest ive ever gone in a day if we exclude flying. so for me personally, i really don't see the point of having a car that goes more than 200 miles in the winter on the highway. also, even if i decided to go up to the 650 mile mark that trip would more or less be the only thing i would have planned for that day so the extra 1,5h wouldn't be an issue.

[@alexforce7624]

Rule 91 of the Highway Code recommends that you should take a break of at least 15 minutes for every 2 hours of driving. If you have an accident due to driver fatigue then you can be charged with dangerous driving.

[@rogerthomas368]

It's not that 250 miles are not enough, its the fact that you will want a car to still do 250 miles after you have owned the car for 7 years and have put 50,000 miles on the clock. Also, the 250 range needs to be on a cold winter night where you are using the heater and main beam. All in all it seems that being able to purchase a car with 320-350 miles range makes the most sense if you want it to truly do 250 miles as a single trip over the time you own it.

[@jasonowen8193]

I don't think the issue is range, its the charging network, where you stopped and had dinner the pub owner said yes its very popular , so you were lucky knowone else there, what happens if two or three cars are waiting to charge, and just one charger. 3 hour wait. But its typical of this country, build an aircraft carrier and no planes to go on it, promote ev cars but insufficient infrastructure, and different apps from different providers. Their should be one charging screen on each terminal and all the providers have there app on the screen, and just choose your provider, its so damn simple

[@smallmj2886]

My ideal EV would give me 500 km highway range, with a full charge in half an hour. I know we're not there yet, but we are not that far off. But that is a Canadian perspective.

[@sahhull]

I dont have a credit card and dont want one.... I dont have a mobile phone with internet access either and dont want one. I dont need either to buy diesel so why is it not possible to pay the same way to public charge an EV.? An EV could indeed get away with a 150 mile range if the charge time was 5 mins or less.

[@shoestringsev4529]

The answer is no always no. Can you manage yes. Is it enough no. Batteries have a limited cycle amount. Hence the larger the battery the longer it lasts and provides you with options where and when to charge. If you do road trips with your family you will want a larger battery.