Tesla Model Y electric motor compared to VW ID electric motor

[@simonreeves2017]

Hi Sam, greetings from the U.K. I’m fast approaching 60 YO now, I graduated as an electrical and electronic engineer in 1987. AC motors, induction or permanent magnet are the ideal technology - that we know of - to propel a vehicle driven by wheels, or tracks, or anything requiring a torque or rotational force. This is because a driven wheel requires a rotational force to make it work; a perfect match for the physics of an electric motor. When you look at the physics of an external combustion engine (steam engine) or internal combustion engine (petrol or diesel or natural gas or hydrogen) you have massive inefficiency because the linear force of a piston must be converted to a rotational force using a crank. This fundamental weakness in efficiency can not be designed out.

[@ryan6391]

Don't tell a mechanic this.

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@ryan6391 Tbf, some mechanics have always known that the piston engine has relatively low efficiency. The electric motor has just been waiting one hundred years for the mass effcient rechargeble battery. It arrived, arguably about 15 years ago. Now it has to become affordable for the masses. It's just a matter of time, and it is most definitely going to happen.

[@borshardsd]

​@Rambler Andy well said fam 🍻

[@robertweekley5926]

Piston Engines, Steam or Fueled, can't make up Their Mind, as to are they Coming, or Going! Constantly changing direction, can't be good for the Materials, forces, or Waste of Energy!

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@robertweekley5926 Here's a thought. A piston engine has to come to a dead stop twice per piston cycle. Seems unimaginable, but it's true.

[@virtual-viking]

The 384hp Tesla (long range) is _Dual Motor_ About a third of that power comes from the front axle motor.

[@mcronfpv8736]

I don't have the numbers but when he said it without mentioning front or back motors i had a bullshit alert.

[@passdasalt]

Amazing! Double the power yet lighter. Yet almost obscure. Now imagine a Corvette V8 engine with double the power of a Mustang V8. This would be all over mainstream media/news even if it had 20% more power, let alone double! This is why we need to support independent media. Well done Sam. You're a champion mate.

[@ruirodtube]

2:59 that’s a differential. So the electric motor package also includes the differential, which in an ICE vehicle would be separate from the engine, just after the gearbox. Amazing compactness!

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

and the coolest thing ever is when you get rid of the differential and put in two electric motors. that is also great for a three motor configurations which gives wonderful traction control.

[@paulkoop7042]

Faster, better, cheaper, simpler, safer.

[@Notme-tq4xs]

Tesla

[@audience2]

Therefore 🙄

[@ryan6391]

Healthier.

[@rsakhaled]

@@ryan6391 more delicious

[@billcichoke2534]

How is it simpler or safer?

[@fsbbs]

Thanks for your video. Your focussing on Tesla's new hairpin design and its benefits without talking about the VW stator design explicitly is probably somewhat misleading. VW produces hairpin stators in Salzgitter right from the beginning of the ID.3 production ~3 years ago. I've visited the factory (just as a private visitor group) just a week ago and was able to see the machines cutting and bending the hairpins from a copper wire coil, placing them in "nests" and putting them into their stator housing with some special paper isolation. Quite slow, quite some discards (as far as I could tell from just a few minutes). But automated hairpin design for a rather long time now. (Have seen some of the lab cabins of the battery cell research team also, pouch only at that place, and a short visit and explanation of the battery recycling machinery. And also some hand made Bugatti Chiron ICE machines. :-|)

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "Your focussing on Tesla's new hairpin design and its benefits without talking about the VW stator design explicitly is probably somewhat misleading". to be misleading is EXACTLY HIS POINT. what those paying attention recognize is how this was also the point of Beth Holmes/Theranos, Trevor Milton/Nikola, and Sam Fried/FTX Crypto.

[@anonmouse956]

In addition to having fewer moving parts the moving parts in an EV drivetrain move in a circular motion, the least damaging form of movement for a mechanical part. In and ICE drivetrain many parts move pistonically, the most damaging type of movement.

[@Notme-tq4xs]

ICE cars are now stupid.

[@emceeboogieboots1608]

Pistonically🤔 This is how I move late on a Friday night 😁

[@user-uu6bi4tn5o]

The term is pure rotary or simple harmonic. Pistonically is not a term I have been aware of. But conventional gudgeon-pin anchored piston /crankshaft ice cars are not simple-harmonic. You get second, third and other higher order harmonic effects from side forces which lead to much harsher vibrations that end up wearing the entire vehicle as a system down compared to pure rotary alternatives. One such alternative is the Wankel engine. Also known as the rotary engine.

[@jesflynn4048]

@@user-uu6bi4tn5o yes, 'pistonically' is a new-to-(me as a mech eng, at least)-term, too 🤔. But not a bad one in many ways, it summates the acceleration regimes quite well! Don't forget that Wankel's are not 'pure' rotary, either... (just much lower accelerations than them pistinical ice's!) I'm sure the ice'y clarkson psychophant crowd will lose interest in their old tech once the performance gains of electric drive become more apparent to them. Maybe in time even Harley owners will get over that, er, lovely feeling of a big non-primary balanced v-twin roller-thundering their teeth out...

[@user-uu6bi4tn5o]

@@jesflynn4048 😅😅😅 good one. Thundering them gnashes. 😬 The comparison between electric and ICE is not even a comparison. Let me offer you this 97% efficiency in favour of a 40% loss riden entropy susciptible of endless complexity in every sense. When the true nature of the offering is comprehended and importantly when it becomes easily accessible for the average Joey, then it'll be recieved.

[@boredKiwi]

The reason Tesla use an oil filter is because they chose to adopt a "wet" motor layout, like many others have. The oil must be pumped from the gear reducer sump to cool the motor and whenever you have a pump you must have a filter. Tesla originally just used a bulky off-the-shelf spin-on filter to save having to design anything more clever. Other EVs with a "wet" motor (e.g. Bolt, E-GMP and new Hyundai/Kona models) typically use a non-serviceable screen. All Tesla has done here is move to a small integrated filter as the others have already. As for oil changes, the fact is that gear reducer in an automotive application covers very few operating hours compared to industrial applications that run 24/7. It's easy to get away without changing the oil over the lifetime of a typical car. Hairpin windings have been used for years by others, with Tesla being the notable holdout until now. Tesla's powertrain engineering is good but there is nothing Earth-shaking going on here.

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "Tesla's powertrain engineering is good but there is nothing Earth-shaking going on here."

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "Hairpin windings have been used for years by others, with Tesla being the notable holdout until now." read it and weep kids.

[@eisaaltamimi3500]

Where is the link for the original video?

[@michalfaraday8135]

The horsepower comparrison is incorrect. The Model Y Motortrend tested was the Long Range, which is AWD - it has 2 motors. I also had the older motor types. The Model Y RWD - single motor has about 240kW/320 hp, but there are multiple estimates and those are for the older model. So we don´t really know what the power of the new motor is. The older Tesla motors are definitely more powerfull, but not double compared to the VW motor.

[@HermanWillems]

New motors are focused more on efficiency than output power. And also on making them cheaper. My tesla 60kWh model 3 can even go further than older long range models.

[@perjohanaxell9862]

Electric motor are definitely one of the cool advantages with ev:s. We talk alot about battery's, the main drawback, but more rarely about the motors one of the main advantages! Good work!

[@markwilliams5654]

Electric motors are measured using peak power or a 1h rating which is normally massively different

[@hgh425]

The power output is a short time peak power. The main reason for the similar size is because the drives are optimized for optimal efficiency at normal driving.

[@Ryan-ff2db]

I wish I had "lets buy a model Y and take it part" money.

[@shannonwoodcock1035]

Watching Sandy Munro is cheaper.

[@Ryan-ff2db]

@@shannonwoodcock1035 lol, yeah, but I still wish I had that kind of money.

[@shannonwoodcock1035]

@Ryan Don't we all. If I donate a kidney, I might be able to gas up the car or buy a dozen eggs.

[@davidinkster1296]

This is a very interesting video because it shows how SIMILAR the motors are for two major competitors. Many people will not be aware that the output power of an electric motor is limited by heat, most of which is generated by resistance of the windings. If the Tesla motor appears to have twice the power rating of the VW, it is necessary to ask how long is it able to produce that power without burnout or other catastrophic failure. Both makers will use automatic current and temperature monitoring; a higher rating might just mean that one maker is skating 'closer to the edge' than the other. Things like 'hairpin' windings or even rare-earth magnets are really just tinkering around the basic design. The rare-earth magnets can increase efficiency because their magnetic field is available without the need for heat-producing current; but a similar advantage may be gained by using windings with a high proportion of silver to reduce the resistivity. Continued development will produce continued small improvements; The video really shows that it is the battery that gives the greatest scope for improvements.

[@billcichoke2534]

Tesla pushes more current through, which requires bigger packs for the same range. It also overcharges those batteries (to get to those range and charge times), thus risking more battery fires.

[@jimgraham6722]

Going to higher voltages is the way to increased efficiency as these decrease the current needed and hence ohmic losses. My bet is once safety and reliability issues are sorted, within a few years most EVs will gravitate to 800V architecture (this Voltage is already used in a lot of electric trucks, buses and trams) with 1200V clearly on the horizon. This will allow much faster charging and substantially reduce heat losses. The issues will be training techs to safely work with such high voltages, safety of chargers, and providing a bullet proof way to disconnect the cells in an accident (likely by using explosive fuses linked to the airbag deployment system).

[@billcichoke2534]

@Jim Graham Unfortunately power can only enter cells so fast. Any faster, and you still risk fires. Voltage systems only help in moving current from A to B; they don't do anything regarding the limits of chemistry or conductive materials.

[@kaya051285]

Eletric motors are very well understood. Literally billions of electric motors are manufactured annually far more than ICEs There will be no significant electric motor advantage between the EV makers

[@billcichoke2534]

@I Kaya There isn't. Some go for more power and more batteries, some go for less of each. It's a zero sum balancing act.

[@hvh377]

Interesting you mention the hairpin windings as an example of incremental improvement at Tesla, but forget to mention VW has been using those since iteration 1 of their motors.

[@davidissko9796]

And, your point, considering how much more power and torque the Tesla motor offers compared to the VW's?

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "but forget to mention VW has been using those since iteration 1 of their motors." exactly the conspicuous LEAVING OUT of information (and thus creating "false halos" among the naive and gullible) is all part of the Jordan Belfort/Wolf of Wall Street scam of "Pump and Dump".

[@hvh377]

@@davidissko9796 Does it feel like physical pain when your Tesla superiority complex gets dented by reality courtesy of some clueless clowns from Wolfsburg?

[@HermanWillems]

True. VW was earlier with those. But there it is Volkswagen stops. Tesla is now busy removing the copper hairpins for Aluminium hairpins in the stator soon. Making a fully copperless motor. As its a reluctance motor the rotor is just metal sheets.

[@hvh377]

@@HermanWillems Why would VW stop engineering? I'm sure they didn't. You just have no visibility of what's coming yet and assume that they're doing nothing. Tesla is already shouting about the next thing that they do not have yet. That's the difference. And that's why the majority of the Tesla fans (I'm not saying you are) are blissfully unaware of all the fantastic engineering going on at all the car manufacturers and think Tesla is the only automaker making all these fantastic inventions. Keep dreaming.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

Tesla seems to lead the way in integration. But I also think it’s a little unfair to compare VW with anyone else. The Germans are masters at making things overly complicated.

[@theowink]

Don’t now what your saying I drive vag almost 30 years now

[@ThePeter123a]

The most powerful VW MEB engine has 170 kW (231 hp) and is installed in the Cupra e-boost.

[@HermanWillems]

That is less powerfull than the least powerfull Tesla motor. Which is 180kW.

[@albertbradfield1945]

Great 2 years, Sam, keep it up.

[@chrisnewman7281]

Two things to consider with the motors, power being one and the other being torque. The other thing to consider is cost

[@Notme-tq4xs]

I am glad you got that figured out.

[@devonbikefilms]

@@Notme-tq4xs 😂 see what you did there

[@ramblerandy2397]

About a couple of years ago Sandy Munro & Associates disassembled a VW 150kW motor, and although it wasn't as radical as a Tesla motor, Munro was impressed with its quality and design. So VW have done something quite well in the BEV sphere. However, Tesla has substantially improved the motor since. The VW motor? It's probably the same as it was 2 years ago. As we know, Tesla make running improvements. Legacy tends to improve on the next generation.

[@林振华-t4v]

I think we need to be clear the factor of safety behind it. Most claim power on motor is actually lot higher (at least 2X of rated power) which means the claimed power is not for continuous operation. (The rated power is). The comparison is the EV motor and Train motor. A typical EMU subway motor running on 640 V or 1500V can only put out around 300 to 400 kw or even less.(each one weight well into triple digits in kgs) But the later can last for 20 years pounding few hundreds km a day every day even at L2 crush load. Their EV counterpart will likely experience catastrophic failure within weeks while operating under this type of condition. Hence, I wont say Tesla is ahead especially consider their track record. They are just more willing to take risk at consumer expensive

[@EwanM11]

True, but the same can be said if any high performance car motor. I doubt a 300hp bmw petrol motor will last long running continuously at full power, but in reality probably ends up only being a couple of days of full power over the whole life of the vehicle, unless it's raced. Early model S motors were known to fail, but the model 3 motors are holding up well. Time will tell though.

[@zoominbc]

I think the embedded oil filter is part of the new design. I believe the older motor has a replaceable filter. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the new motor’s lack of rare earth minerals. That’s the big story if it’s correct.

[@emceeboogieboots1608]

I agree. But I thought that was to be the next motor release not the current one. I didn't think they were that far ahead on it. They will be going through round after round of price cutting, putting all kinds of pressure on the legacy industry by the looks

[@CiaranMcHale]

You wrote, "I’m surprised you didn’t mention the new motor’s lack of rare earth minerals." This video of Sam's is based on details provided in a video by another KZbinr, and that other video did not discuss whether this new motor uses rare earth metals. Hence, Sam did not discuss that possibility.

[@HermanWillems]

But i see copper. The new is not out yet. The new motor has also aluminium stator winding pins.

[@frankcoffey]

We have a long way to go on electric motor optimization, hairpin windings will push them to the next level of power and ease of construction.

[@markwilliams5654]

Peak power and continuous power are completely different with electric motors

[@markwilliams5654]

It's not the continuous power out put the motor over heats and slows down Tesla

[@richh650]

Great video Sam. I personally don't believe there should be gearboxes and filters that are locked down and cannot be flushed. It is a cost cutting ploy to make their gearboxes that way so they would instead need expensive maintenance later instead. Sort of like smartphones and their movement to nonremovable batteries. Any gearing will have a certain about of wear with millions of tiny metal particles floating in the fluid chewing up those gears further. This is not debatable! I would prefer to at least have the ability to change that fluid at 75,000 miles or so and it not be locked down to possibly require replacing everything after a failure instead.

[@Ruudi05]

Vw and other Meb platform cars are either rear wheel drive ot four wheel drive not front wheel drive at the moment.

[@henrikmunster6812]

Exactly. He does say, that VW cars are primarily front wheel drive, which is true for the ICE-cars. But we are talking EV's here, and the are not front wheel drive. The coming ID.2, they have shown a prototype of, is supposed to be front wheel drive. All in all, Australians don't know much about European cars, since they are made so far away. Recently the Viking talked about all the ID. models and the confusion. He mentioned ID.1, ID.2 and so on. They don't exist at all. ID.1 hasn't even been talked about. In Europe we have two models: ID.3 and ID.4. The ID.5 is a coupé version of the 4. In China there is also one or two large SUV's, but that's all. No confusion.

[@machoopichoo2]

Funny to see old school fuses next to the advanced PCB. ;^)

[@gregripp]

Are these power ratings continuous or intermittent?

[@morphos2]

Nice video footage of the red Mazda (CX3 ?) rolling in Ericeira, Portugal. :P

[@ItisImarko]

And byd motor weight .. ? Is that with charger and inverter? And diesel is about 200kg..

[@felixsu375]

I would expect there to be a huge difference. Tesla has had 20 years and have gone through multiple designed for motors. VW just got started. They haven't had time to refine their designs yet. And this is VW so it's as if they can iterate quickly.

[@tv-ld3wv]

VW must fix their software issues before going iteration Every 4 months you have OTA inside the service center itself "which is supposed to be a recall that solve the software issues" But nothing is changed for almost 3 years

[@4literv6]

20 year's? The roadster arrived in 2008 the id.3 was shown off in 2016. First delivered in late 2020 as vws first ground up ev. Teslas first ground up ev the model s was first delivered in late 2012. 🤔

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@4literv6 That looks like 4 years to me... am I wrong? What R&D did VW do for 30 years? Where did all that money go? Didn't VW have any engineers?! WTF?

[@4literv6]

@@davidbeppler3032 you are not WRONG at all. I just love the never ending excuses for those poor ole legacy dinosaurs. First it was they can spin up evs anytime and crush little upstarts like tesla. Then it was nobody wants evs, then it was evs aren't profitable. Then it was evs require lots of chips to build. I mean it never ends with the ice excuses. Meanwhile time simply marches on without them with tesla and byd as the new kings of the ring. Combined this year they might exceed 10% of the entire world's automotive market share. Next year 15-20%+ the year after 25-30% by 2027 they might be 55-65% of all car's sold between them. 😀

[@Notme-tq4xs]

VW can't iterate quickly.

[@johnharrison8480]

Hi Sam, Just a minor complaint: Electricity powers Motors, Hydrocarbons power Engines!!

[@taxiuniversum]

When you compare the weight of Diesel- versus electrical motors, you obviously also have to factor in the weight of the whole unit - meaning INCLUDING full tank, and battery. As of now, electrical cars are still dragging around a pretty hefty weight due to these batteries. I am sure this will improve - but it has to be considered, if one is to be reasonable.

[@billjohnson3022]

I really hope you aren't burning yourself out Sam,. Either you are working yourself to death or you have some much needed help. I like most of your videos as you are a good spokesman for the EV/RE transition. Well wishes with your wife and family.

[@anthonyxuereb792]

Remember the debate over near sealed auto transmissions not requiring servicing?

[@phillyphil1513]

you bet I do. "we've seen this movie".

[@Brian-ny4pw]

Why do these smaller ev like atto3 , vw id3, bz4x all rated at 204hp?

[@davidbeppler3032]

Tesla is about 20 years ahead. Amazing that the best VW can do is half what Tesla does. How many engineers does VW have? What is the R&D budget over the last 30 years?

[@Ample17]

20 years is very optimistic. I'd say 8-10 at max. Still impressive but legacy Auto will close the gap over time. The ones that survive that is.

[@林振华-t4v]

Or maybe tesla design have less meat in it. Which other EV can do 80% duty cycle. Tesla can only do 30%

[@Ry-lx2kl]

​@user-jh6vt8vx4v I've never heard of a Tesla motor failing ever and there are millions on the road with many over 500k miles. Even if your made up numbers were true VW is going to need that 80% duty cycle as it will constantly have to use nearly all of the power it has. Tesla on the other hand would only need to use about 30% of it's available power compared to VW needing to use 80% of it's power available. Tesla has proven their motors reliable, for VW or other manufacturers we'll have to wait until they produce enough and see if they are reliable after they have driven 500k+ miles.

[@dannelson6980]

@@Ry-lx2kl Model S and X drive units fail all the time. The Model 3 and Y drive units seem to have low failure rate.

[@Ry-lx2kl]

@@dannelson6980A little research and you are right about earlier Tesla Induction motors. Almost everything I found about failures was pre-2018 and if they were to fail they did so early in their life. Since moving to PM motors the failure rate is very low including newer Model S/X. Mercedes was forced to recall every EV they sold in China due to motor failures caused by the cooling system. Just last month VW recalled 21000 vehicles for a software problem that would cause the car to lose power or stall while driving. They have been plagued with lots of software problems. They also just had a recall for improperly assembled motors that had a problem with the coolant connection. Hopefully VW's motors last but only time will tell as there aren't that many out there yet. One of the problems with being new to manufacture any product is working through the bugs. Tesla has the lead here as they have the most experience by far. It will be interesting to see how the Gen4 motor for Tesla works out when they start shipping.

[@logtothebase2]

I think the power output and torque figures dont matter, years ago most cars were underpowered, motorway driving was noisy and stressful, "A" road overtaking dicey (UK experiences anyway) unless you had top of the range engine and tune for the car, gradually that phased out, particularly with advent to ubiquitous Turbocharged engines or modern electrics and ever present speed cameras, Cost of manufacture is part of the new battleground. I think eliminating heavy and complex mechanical differential and reduction gears, possibly windings, could make a difference, if you look at say an AWD, hybrid with massive gear sets and couplings, chemical treatment plant, complex variable valve gear, forced induction hardware and motors and batteries, the scope for simplification are vast, Sub optimal motors and batteries will not be a big differentiator once you ditch the ICE tech. Brand perception, quality, driver experience and quality will be bigger. VW Ford etc dont have to beat Tesla technology they just have to be in the same playing field.

[@maxflight777]

This HP or Kw rating is very important! *not just for acceleration but for regen* A VW driver descending a hill and slowing will need to use the brakes. The Tesla driver has more regen. This gives better efficiency and longer real world ranges.

[@henrikmunster6812]

If the VW driver uses cruise control, the car will regenerate a lot to keep the speed down. If the driver uses the brakes, the car will regenerate as much as possible, before using the "real" brakes.

[@AdlerMow]

You forgot to mention the use of Iron Nitride magnets, with no rare earth minerals, being much cheaper and made from iron and nitrogen!

[@richardmarshall159]

Best wishes to you and your family!👍

[@electricviking]

Thank you!

[@divinejusticefeelsgood]

I wonder how far will evs go considering how far ice came within the last 100 years..

[@felixbaum48]

BMW: "This transmission fluid will last the lifetime of the vehicle" == Self-fulfilling prophecy.

[@grandrapids57]

HAAA ! Yes, you have earned the "KZbin Comment of Day Award."

[@felixbaum48]

@@grandrapids57 HA! Thank you! I have a 2008 Nissan Altima hybrid with 290k miles which looks and runs like a new car. Replaced trans fluid every 40k miles, contrary to recommendation. Now upgrading to a P85D+ for $25k

[@grandrapids57]

@@felixbaum48 That's it! My Geo had "lifetime trans fluid" too. Yeah, right.... and sold it after we put 270,000 miles on it. My Malibu LTZ, 274.000 right now... I put new OEM wheels, tires, carpet, had driver seat restuffed and new leather panel sewn in, wife complains but I always have a new car... more or less and it never depreciates

[@rais1953]

Good point. When it fails that's its lifetime over. Sealing something like a filter seems like a cost cutting measure by a manufacturer that has an incentive to limit the life of the car so more can be sold.

[@kentkjrgaardjensen4304]

I didnt know tesla already started with the hairpin motors. Thats great News and were just spotted by Sandy a short time ago at investor Day ☺️

[@roldorf5615]

We should start calling you Mr Tesla.

[@PD55_]

Tesla realized long ago that each incremental improvement, or problem avoided, will be multiplied a million times in production. A big contrast with legacy ICE manufacturers that outsource components to keep costs down and quarterly shareholder earnings up. Tesla proves to the accountants that intelligent quality design with vertical integration generates nice profits.

[@shalvami]

Actually VW driving dynamics and steering are better than any Chinese EV I've ever seen, and I have tested a lot...

[@FreedomIsNotGoingToBeFree]

You don't need 3 IR breakers as electricity won't flow with only one pole powered hence there is no reason to cut the last one.

[@larrypriest5789]

Question??? have there been any info on towing capacity for EV's??? especially the trucks???

[@lesw8798]

Is the Tesla breather on the top of the Motor capable of protecting it from a flood like always happens on the east coast during a hurricane, or is it scrap after its been submerged?

[@4literv6]

Salt water exposure and electronics are not good bed mates.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Same as anything else. If you submerge it in salt water... it is trash. Every car, every truck, every boat.

[@baronsilverbaron757]

Any idea what the BHP power is of the 2023 Tesla Y RWD with LFP battery?

[@MiguelAngel-xl5xd]

It's 208 kW si around 275 hp, the Viking is wrong this time since the power he's told is really of the Dual Motor version.

[@baronsilverbaron757]

@@MiguelAngel-xl5xd Just read these specs. Performance Specs Tesla Y RWD Power: compare 220 kW (295 hp) Torque: compare 430 Nm Number of Engines: 1 Drive: compare Rear Acceleration 0-100 km/h: compare 6.9 s Top Speed: compare 217 km/h

[@wllmjhuang]

The battery is the heaviest component.

[@santosh911]

Sam, it occurred to me that your BYD is probably not being used, back in Austrailia, until your return (best wishes for your wife's recovery). Did you prepare the car for this extended layup? Can you do a video on that and what were your observations upon return? I've never seen long periods of no use of EVs addressed before

[@bydman5320]

He sold it within a week of getting it

[@adewouters]

Very interesting video however I would comment that if it's true electric motors have an incomparable power to weight ratio compared to internal combustion engines, you also have to take into account the weight of the battery, and that makes them less interesting suddenly... Electric motor + battery vs. IC engine + full tank of fuel... ;-)

[@snowatom]

Weight saved on motor, is used on battery.

[@nzbidzel]

Yes the motors are smaller and put out more power when compared to ICE engines. That said the weight of a tank of gas compared for a ICE engine and time to refill vs recharge more than makes up with current battery tech. Its not the motor companies need to invest in its the power storage. Most people could care less about a engine 1/3 the weight with 3 times the power if the battery is x10 the weight of a tank of gas you lose that weight advantage then it takes on average a typical electric car (60kWh battery) takes just under 8 hours vs 90sec at the pump for gas... even a rapid charger giving 100mile(160km) will take 30mins... Time is issue. Once EVs recharge with the same convenience as a ICE is when ppl will adopt EVs without issue

[@hishamg]

Tesla has been exclusively building EVs since 2008, they have had 15 years to improve and refine their designs. VW (and other car makers) are playing catch-up. They have only seriously started making EVs less than 10 years ago, and they are dividing their attention between their EVs and ICE vehicles. Having said that, they are decent enough (if overpriced) EVs, and eventually they will correct their mistakes, e.g. haptic buttons. Having said that I am biased; my wife loves the look of the ID3 and we are supposed to be be going to look at one this weekend. I have pointed out that they are bigger and heavier than they look.

[@jesflynn4048]

had one: they ride well so you don't notice the mass unless footing-it. The controls are a bit of a pain, though.

[@TheAShkins]

You talk about EV's and on 2nd minute say that most VWs are primary Front wheel drive. At this moment none of ID cars are FWD. Either RWD or AWD.

[@hvh377]

Funny that! With all his research and googling for this video, he got this basic fact wrong. Poor show, my man, poor show.

[@paulluo4104]

Nice well edited video. But the dude just spend 10 min comparing something that obvious. 1 electric motors are light because size and less parts 2 thus less likely to break down. Electric motors hardly ever break down. 3 the design ac electric motor has not changed much. Which is good. It is well tested design 4. Maybe the only thing I can think of that Tesla does better might be the inverter which will get pretty hot sending all the power to the motor. Maybe the magna design cannot sustain 200kw. So they opted to be conservative and used 150kw. Again nothing to do with the motor it self.

[@RichardKCollins]

I only have a little time and you have made close to 3000 videos. I like what you are doing, but you might want to look at the uses of vehicles and weight. Cars tend to have lots of "stuff" that probably is not necessary. I had to model the global vehicular fleets for global climate change many years ago. What struck me was how many people only have the option to buy a car "with everything". A single person has extra seats. I found a few groups who are taking cars apart to see what is really necessary for the job the owner wants to do. On car crash, it might be much easier to redesign cities and car uses than to add more cost and complexity. The safest car is one that never crashes, or where it is not needed in the first place. Those kinds of things. Of course, walking, biking, the Internet. I wanted to stop China before they invested in more roads and cars. Try to encourage internet and virtual methods for country-wide education and work and community. For a fraction of the cost of travel, most business can be done virtually. I know people like to get together, as long as the company or country pays for it. On a species level, that is not always a good idea. I looked at all the electric motors, generators and transformers in use. They have not been optimized in a hundred years - for all humans. Electric cars are a toy for a few ten million rich people. Most of the 8 billion humans now use far less. Some from need and others from choice. Richard Collins, The Internet Foundation

[@mikaelpettersson5916]

Imagine that adding hp does not add weight. (And cost) But add cost for the consumer in form of insurance. As teslas car are incredible expensive to register. Do the consumer need a more powerful engine? I might say yes If they limit it ( could charge extra to unlock it). A higher power might Even be more effective.

[@peterinns5136]

Tesla offers that option already, some 30 kw by ticking a box and paying a bit more.

[@elmojito]

Funny the notion that newer and lighter is better. In the old days, not many years ago, appliances (electric) would last a extremely long time. They used to be abuse proof. True they also were simple, too much so for our digital world. To see quality, as for durability, go to some less developed countries, which also have poor roads, and you will many old Mercedes diesel cars, with probably more than 1 million kms, still working on a daily basis. You will see lots of Toyota Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols that can handle that type of roads. Weight reduction was not the objective but durability. VW as a good german company probably has still, though I think they have lost some, of that mentality.

[@DruMcDoo]

Can't believe how far ahead of the game Tesla is over VW. Love this age of electric motors and seeing how fast the technology is going. At last it seems the younger generation realises something has to be done to reduce global warming. Just the same as in war impossible achievments happen at lightning speed, this war for survival of the planet has accumulated the best brains to rapidly solve the problem...

[@bydman5320]

Sealing the filter is a terrible idea if I’m a Tesla owner, filter is gone you need a new motor or a new car

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

there are NO volkswagen EVs with front wheel drive in production. their new in-house developed motor for the ID.7 together with the new electronic has a much improved efficiency! latest rumors are in the area of 13,5kWh per 100km WLTP which is 1,5kWh better than the usual 15kWh. and this for a big car like the ID.7 which is a kind of electric successor of the Passat

[@onathanj]

IF Tesla have such a "refined" motors as you claim, how come they are the least reliable and overall cars with most failures?

[@fredbloggs5902]

Source?

[@docsnider8926]

@@fredbloggs5902 J.D. Powers Record; German TÜV Report, available on the internet

[@jeoinaforest]

I’ve read multiple accounts of “failures” and they are typically minor such as fit/finish issues. Very few batts and zero drive units. Please explain if I’ve got a reasonable understanding. All I consider is Reality, so not trying to be hostile or debunk your statement in any way.

[@benfox-i3z]

How much does the byd electric motor weigh?

[@davidbeppler3032]

How long will the BYD motor last?

[@greghudson9717]

Who cares

[@royh6526]

Don't know about current designs, but years ago when BYD was just bringing out their first BEVs their motors were huge.

[@benfox-i3z]

@@royh6526 Thanks nice to know.

[@paulluo4104]

My understanding is with any single speed motor. The peak hp power is the max speed it can spin at. Which is limited by the amount of power it can draw from the battery system. Which can be tuned. So 150kw. 200kw. It can be the same motor. But of course when running at 200kw load it will be less efficient. So the HP value is tuned for overall efficiency. And saying nothing about the capability of the motor. Electric motors are all the same as designed by Tesla in 1887. 😮

[@TheLDunn1]

When quoting EV weights vs Internal combustion parts, like the electrical motor vs a diesel engine mentioned here, I really think it needs to be the complete powertrain that is compared. I’d the weight of an EV motor, transmission & HV Battery vs a diesel engine, it’s transmission and fuel tank - (maybe empty & full, and compare the half full weight as the ‘average’)….this way you get a truer comparison. If I were running a KZbin channel that was biased toward internal combustion engines, I might be saying something like: “The weight of batteries in an EV is 400kg’s, 400! The weight of batteries in an internal combustion engine is only 20kg’s!!!” My point is, not that EV’s are bad and ICE’s are good, (or vice versa), just that if you must compare the two, it needs to be a reasonable & fair comparison. Cherry picking specs to compare that make EV look good & ICE look bad does let’s you and this channel down. They each have their pros and cons, just present it honestly rather than always trying to ‘spin’ it. EV’s & ICE’s each have their own pros & cons. It depends on an individuals use case as to which is better suited to them. Overtime, I expect EV’s to close the gap to where the ICE has pros - things are developing at a faster rate for EV’s now than they are for ICE.

[@jesflynn4048]

Agree, Lawrence, comparisons need to be made carefully. One might also include the ice 'exhaust' system, and the masses of CO2 it ejects over it's lifetime. Plus the mass of front-rear transmission shafts & associated structural accomodation for 4wd vehicles vs power cabling. Perhaps also consider the better mass placement cg-wise of a battery+electrical motor vs ice +hydrocarbon tank, plus the safety considerations in locating the ice fuel tank from the perspective of crash performance. Then there is the mass-saving from reduced structural load support requirements for the lower mass e vs ice engine, bearing in mind a floorpan battery-pack offers the opportunity to enhance the passenger cage safety due to it's stiffness; more mass amortization, especially if monocoque. While no Musk sycophant, Tesla seem well ahead just now... Now just to reduce the mass of the average vehicle occupant, eh?!

[@andrewsaint6581]

You make a great point. This episode of Fully Charged (linked) investigates a company repowering Aussie 97 tonners the new set up is between half a ton and a ton heavier after all evidence of ice removed and the new (swappable) batteries, motor and gearbox are installed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5a8faeGiMtqhrs

[@TheLDunn1]

@@jesflynn4048 ….🤣 @mass of occupant comment! It’s hard to know where to draw the lines when trying to make such comparisons. You are right, I would definitely want to include the exhaust system into the ICE powertrain though. If you look at commercial vehicles, like Merc Sprinter, Ford Transit etc, in Europe, governments permit individuals holding driving licenses which limit them to driving ICE powered vehicles up to 3500kg GVM, to be able to drive EV’s up to 3900kg GVM or even 4250kg GVM (it varies by country). The Governments recognise that the EV versions of ‘3500kg GVM vans’ weigh more than their ICE counterparts by around 400kg, so have increased the driving license restriction for EV’s. Without it, a 3500kg GVM van that anyone could drive on a standard license, when available with an EV powertrain would have ~400kg disadvantage in payload vs a comparable ICE variant. If you Google the weight of a Tesla Model 3 it will be around 1750-1850kg. If you google a broadly comparable vehicle, say, a Ford Focus, it will be in the order of 1250kg-1500kg….ball park figures. So I find it annoying when I see cherry picked stats trying to pass of EV’s as being lighter than ICE equivalents, and felt compelled to comment. Just be straight & honest about it, EV’s are heavier like for like (at the moment), that’s just the way it is with current technology, EV’s have other advantages that their ICE counterparts don’t have, but being lighter in weight isn’t one of them - yet. In years to come, with advancements in battery technology, they may well end up being lighter, but we are years, if not decades from that. As an aside, a typical ICE 3.5t van has a range of 550 miles or so. The comparable EV vans have a range of around 150-200 mile. You would need a battery about 3 times the current size (& weight), to get a comparable range to the ICE, just imagine how heavy the unladen vehicle would be then! It would be nudging 3000kg, and have very limited payload as a result. This is one reason why EV range is limited vs comparable ICE vehs, it’s a trade off. Some users don’t need 500+ mile range, others do.

[@gregsmith566]

Great news if you only look at the motor. When battery wt gets closer to energy density of gasoline then we can have electric planes😁😁

[@sigma_six]

Tesla kicks arse again... not to be mean, they just can't help it

[@markwilliams5654]

A combustion engine doesn't thermal limit it has full power continuously you can't compare the 2 like that

[@EwanM11]

Internal combustion engines for cars have the same intermittent peak power requirements as EVs. Driving up a big mountain at full power will often reveal that. Or towing up a mountain.

[@crowdofdissidents155]

What do you think of this theory? All the negative news about electrics in the US is just the legacy automakers way of ensuring sales of their remaining product.

[@jebes909090]

i think you're in a cult

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Look at the hype about hydrogen, as if that's going to save the industry. At least don't buy an EV because it will soon be obsolete when H2 or synfuel comes out! Powered by fusion!! What a pipe dream.

[@ramblerandy2397]

Of course that observation can't be applied to VW under Herbert Diess, where the company published a chart comparing their own ICE vehicles unfavourably against their BEVs. For a legacy auto maker that was extremely brave, I think.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@ramblerandy2397 Yes, fired a week later. That is when I knew VW was doomed.

[@lionelwylie2326]

@@jamesvandamme7786 Dead right I don't get the mind set of anyone that would want a H2 car. Putting a whole lot of pipe dreams out there is not a bad way of confusing everyone so they go with what they know for now and buy the last of the ICE. Hell if you could convince me that fusion car was just round the corner I would buy the last of the cheap ICE to get me to that corner. It wont work though, already EVs are at price parity with ICE and they are well more compelling. The take up is happening by itself and I don't think we will need laws to ban ICE by any date. By 2030 trying to push ICE will lead to bankruptcy.

[@kadmow]

Merely stating "double the power" - without the reasons why?? (or the desired to limit power to (enforce) minimum range - the average city driver has no need (nor ability to develop) full power in a single gear steroidal golf cart - a burnout doesn't take 400HP to achieve). - Increased cooling, larger diameter stator winding wire (hairpins), stronger magnetic flux ?? (ie. These factors are all engineering decisions, not pointers of; Engineering Brilliance vs Idiocity, different aims are at play here - the outcomes demonstrate this - we just need hindsight to see how the market views these objectives long term) Oil Filter ?? - what is new here, many auto transmissions go their entire life without a filter change (manual trans don't typically have filters). With no combustion products, there should be very little breakdown products to filter out, its function is more or less to contain swarf from wear components..

[@maryhadda8420]

The best moving part is no moving part.

[@VintageCars]

The engine/motor may be lighter but the battery is much heavier, no?

[@mallamal5578]

It's the motor design, battery management and software which tesla combine to produce the most powerful drive chains. Tesla continues to innovate. The oil cartridge does not need to be changed. Teslas engineers are the best - hands down.

[@deadeyedan444]

Sealed and never needs service. That scares me. If (when?) it fails then a whole replacement is required.

[@bussosoren]

Are we comparing apple with apple? Maximum power an engine can produce can not be compared to a nominal power derated to last 100k++ km. If Teslas max output is compared to nominal power informed by WV, comparison is not correct. Both should be tested at same test conditions.

[@richardcottone6620]

Do you think there will be a time when most people who want a car have them, and likely not to buy one for several years, and thus creating a big slump in car sales

[@grandrapids57]

Yes I have thought that too. Even today, cars will go 200,000 easily... but when they go 500,000 miles, the demand will drop once those get out there, if the owners manage rust. Perhaps there will become a larger industry for restoring the interior (as for my cars, I replace interior items and carpet. It's not expensive and greatly extends the pride of ownership).

[@felixsu375]

You have to remember that Tesla is the old man of EV manufacturer. So they have the experience that says that the oil filter doesn't need to be changed. BYD is new to this. So they made it serviceable just in case. You can argue either way. Give BYD another 10 years of EVs and they will probably seal it too once they find out that the unit doesn't need to be serviced for 500,000 KM.

[@4literv6]

Founded in the same year 2003 for both byd and tesla.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Tesla invented the electric motor?! Why don't people talk about that more?!

[@ramblerandy2397]

​@@davidbeppler3032 Because Nikola Tesla invented the AC induction motor in 1883, and time has passed.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I don't care much about torque or horsepower, I care more about efficiency. Which translates into range.

[@jnc1771]

However, a motor of a specific weight and size producing double the torque and hp speaks to efficiency. Couple that with e.p.a estimates ( and they are estimates because it cannot reflect real world driving) showing a greater efficiency for the more powerful motor confirms this inbuilt efficiency.

[@Slayer-33]

Now compare them to Lucids motor. Let's see what you get then.

[@WilhelmTheMan]

Guy looks Like Wukong the monkey king. Thats awesome, keep doing man

[@ryandoyle4344]

Isn't Ford having VW build their European EV?

[@hvh377]

Yes, I believe they do. For the first iteration only I believe. They might continue to cooperate on battery production, who knows.

[@henrikmunster6812]

No. They use the VW MEB platform under license, but the build their own cars in their old factory in Cologne (Köln).

[@graemetunbridge1738]

The option to change the oil filter might be valuable eg lots of dirt road driveing.

[@FlipBoxStudio]

Dirt and debris don’t get into the motors of an EV. It’s there in case the moving metal components expel tiny pieces of metal particles from moving and getting too hot. It filters the oil that lubricates the inner components. Only way it can get contaminated from outside particles and dirt is if there’s a big enough hole on the motor housing that isn’t intended. If it was intended, then that just means bad engineering and design.

[@danieldagenais7945]

Sandy Munro did that alrdy 😅

[@FutureSystem738]

Every day when I drive my Tesla, it’s just fabulous- exciting, fast, and lots of fun. The VWs on the other hand are positively…. Boring!

[@solosailorsv8065]

Next compare the energy density of 50kg of gasoline to 50kg of an EV battery and the story flips. Net Drive Train weight Vs Range is the true measure, but i guess that gets, too complicated...

[@aryub5851]

Germany is the thing of past 😂

[@Myrslokstok]

Birtdaycakes 🎂

[@NuclearCarnivore]

@0:36, Thailand? Are you sure it’s not Pakistan?

[@stimannzz]

Go Elon Go!

[@agoogler1887]

A good program for once your not bashing somebody 🤓

[@SibzelChebst]

Engineered obsolescence is evil.

[@paulluo4104]

Vw ev power system is designed and tuned by magna.

[@MrSchnickel]

That looks pretty bad, because i am nearly positive he is using all the information from MUNRO. just cut the clip so you can see one of the workers. very cheap. i will not watch his channel any more.

[@markoverton5858]

This vlog will not please the clown fud.bandits, 😂🤣😂😂,👍