Electronic / Solid State Neon Sign Transformer do's and don'ts

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[@NeonPreservation]

excellent information, visual examples, and explanation! i will keep these tips in mind when working with electronic transformers.

[@hariranormal5584]

there is just something so beautiful about the neon signs... I can never imagine them alone, more like a 80's environment, can imagine some restaurants in maybe a highway, with these signs outside, which I got to see see these for more longer IRL.

[@16mmDJ]

Beautiful! Great info, thank you! I had no idea that proximity to ground was important when wiring tubes up! Also, going to trim the leads on my new power supply as short as conveniently possible, and be careful about how I hook it up to my existing leads.

[@archerneonsigns1964]

Another awesome video! Thanks for sharing.

[@t3dwards13]

Thank you for the info!!! That part at the end was pretty cool!

[@midnightwind8067]

very good video . thank you

[@fictionuk]

Great info, great vid. I have one problem. I'm making a small little neon letter and the two input wires from the transformer have NO indication of what is LIVE or Earth/GROUND. Both black though one is slightly shorter. Does it matter what wire goes to LIVE or GROUND on the plug. I love neon artwork and have only just started my first project and this simply thing has halted my progress. Thanx in advance

[@NeonSignStuff]

Hi. I assume you want to find out which black wire is Live and which is Neutral. Ground is something different. Live and Neutral can usually be swapped, it does not matter. Are we talking about an electronic transformer? If they only have 2 thin wires and not a 3-pole power cord, they are often not compliant to the safety standards. Which country?

[@maxmuster3297]

I really not only like enjoying beautiful signs, but also knowing about the (technical) backgrounds. Thank you for the interesting video! - As you're showing another piece in the end of the video: Can you explain why real neon (filled) tubes have this kind of streaming plasma inside? Why does it move? And would mercury (or other gases) filled tubes would also have this kind of movement inside? (If not, why not? :))

[@NeonSignStuff]

Thank you! Please see Maciejs comment and my response for description of the piece at the video end.

[@js4653]

If using a transformer on a metal frame, if you have no choice but to run the wires along the metal, what about obtaining some clear neon glass of appropriate size, running the wires inside the glass along the metal for extra insulation and tie-wrap the glass to the frame? I have an old Ballantine Beer neon sign that runs the transformer wires inside glass, and it's an old school magnetic transformer. Most likely done for "safety".

[@NeonSignStuff]

Glass tubes will help, or just distance. You could even use tube supports to hold the wires. Touching only small lengths of metal is usually not a problem, see 3:29

[@maxmuster3297]

I thought about your video again, today, and I felt like I somehow missed something that I would like to know. What is the damage of bad wiring and what happened there and how? On the Pepsi sign, potential differences were too close together. And that somehow removed the block out paint? How? Did it get too hot and it evapourated? And why is the tube darker at that spot? Because the paint is missing?

[@NeonSignStuff]

I think the blockout paint is missing because of barely visible small arcing between the tubes, so yes it kind of evaporated or eroded. You usually also hear a hissing or crackling noise in that spot. Another explanation would be that ozone generated in that spot eroded the paint. The dark spot inside the tube could be mercury or sputtering from the electrode that have deposited there, or just aged/damaged phosphor. You see I can't really explain but those are usual traces of tubes being too close together. Blockout missing, and tube inside somehow darkened.

[@Woofwoof1929]

So when you say ground any metallic frame, you mean ground the transformer to the frame by way of green ground wire. Drill a hole in frame & put ground fork between two washers so that it's evenly supported?

[@NeonSignStuff]

Hi, every country has its own rules for ground connections but in theory yes, if the transformer has a metallic grounded case, it might be enough to screw it to the frame so there is ground connection through the mounting, or use a piece of green wire from the transformers ground terminal to the frame with a fork/ring lug etc..

[@Woofwoof1929]

@@NeonSignStuff that's exactly what I do. I've never know if it was technically up to code, but it's always worked. Maybe not recommend though. I would say what you are telling people is way more accurate than my guess work lol. Love the vids! They've been very helpful 🙂

[@karooboermeyer1115]

What can be the issue when a neon sign with 5kV electronic transformer works perfectly fine, just for 8 mins and then switches off, remove power supply for a minute, reconnect and the same happens, runs for 8 mins then switches off??

[@NeonSignStuff]

If it's exactly 8 minutes each time that would be strange, but in general your description fits these issues: a tube is failing, or the transformer is failing, or transformer always has been too small for the sign and now, as the tubes are aging, this problem starts to show.

[@karooboermeyer1115]

@@NeonSignStuff plus minus 8 minutes, it varies. So must I go for a bigger transformer?

[@NeonSignStuff]

@@karooboermeyer1115 that should work. Depending on the real reason, it might work many years or a few weeks.

[@maciekgd]

At 9:30 You showed fascinating undesirable phenomenon, but sadly not describe it. It's call "jelly bean" effect, and is occur only in pure neon tubes supplying by some SMPS converters. Blue tube filled by Penning mixture with mercury vapor is not affected with this phenomenon. Some producers of SMPS converters are warning customers about availability of occurrence jelly bean effect eg. Hansen Neon in EVG 60/2. Other producers like Tecnolux Italy offer special version SMPS for pure neon tube , like "MINI 2020 Neon". This device eliminate jelly bean effect by adding small amount DC offset to AC/HV output, but it's also danger to blue / Penning+Hg tubes because add a mercury migration effect. Some chinese SMPS manufacturers like Hongba/Hyrite offers universal SMPS with no jelly bean effect and no Hg migration. This devices eliminate described effects by vobutating output frequency, or by modulating it by PWM. SMPS from other Chinese brand Cool Neon/gseef.com are free from Hg migration but also jelly bean effect can occur :(

[@NeonSignStuff]

Maciej, you are right about this. The larger hansen and tecnolux models (5-10kV) are also advertised as both blue and red gas compatible, and with no mercury migration. They usually show a few single little beads in the red tubes, often at tight spots, but most of the red lights up steady. I made this little art piece at the end of the video and it's powered by 2 very simple CCFL inverters. Touching the tube adds load to the inverter, that changes the frequency it's running on, and that changes the effect. This effect is just visual, it's not a technical problem and does not harm the tube. One american manufacturer makes transformers especially for this effect, they call them "beadmaker".

[@maciekgd]

@@NeonSignStuff Most of my workshop's customers would describe this behavior as a neon malfunction :) Of course, "jelly bean" effect is useful for neon art, but only for that ;) Regards from Poland!

[@NeonSignStuff]

@@maciekgd greetings to Poland! I have 2 awesome neon photo books from Ilona Karwinska, i'm sure you know them. "Polish cold war neon" and "Neon revolution".

[@maxmuster3297]

@@NeonSignStuff As you're mentioning especially-made circuits to get the effect on purpose: That reminded me of a Neon clock in a PC game. Well, I'm just talking about the first version of "The Sims". In one additional pack you had the possibility to buy a decorative clock for a wall, with a circular (pink, as I remember it) tube around it. And they even animated it to have these beads moving inside. :) Well, this has nothing to do with real Neon, but that quirky memory just came to my mind.

[@benperkins5902]

@@NeonSignStuff I've tried using some very small laptop CCFL inverters to power neon without much success. They will light only a few inches of tube and not brightly, even when I supply 20V input power (they're rated 5-24V, I believe). Which CCFL inverter are you using to power that small art piece? It looks really nice!