Can You Spot The Difference? | EMBN Show 253

[@embn]

What do you think of the new lightweight, low-profile E-bikes that are hitting the market? Let us know your thoughts down below! 👇

[@SimonBauer7]

i prefer a full power one.

[@stewartjackson1821]

Doddy made that show and totally agree why bother with low power ebike, enjoy the ability to adjust the support for every ride 👍 on full power kenevo

[@tegzzzy]

Great Double Act You Two, I'm a Long Retired Downhill Racer from the 90's, Now Lovin Me Stance Ebike, aged 59. Loving EMBN.

[@Cheapsh0t247]

My mate recently sold his Levo SL and now has a Trek Rail as he was previously unable to climb the technical routes we would chose and challenge each other with on the Quantocks. We all use to ride Motorbike Trials as teenagers, we are now in our 50s and eBikes are more than doubled the fun and distance we were getting out of our standard analogue mountain bikes.

[@wayneschofield5978]

I find that a lot of people overlook what I think is one of the major benefits of the lightweight bikes:- I'm greedy and I've got four personal EMTBs, a Levo SL, a GLP-2 (Bosch Gen-4), a Giant Trance (Yamaha) and a Fulgur Mula (Polini EP3+ MX) so I have long term experience of both light and full power bikes. I like doing really big rides sometimes (40+ miles 5000+ climbing, off road) and on rides like those you have to be super economical and I find the SL is really good for those types of rides. You have to ride with the power set either low or off if you want to complete the ride on a 500 battery (SL has 480) so a lot of the time you are working against the drag and weight of the bike. Because the SL motor is so small and the bike is relatively light, it doesn't drain your personal energy when it's off as much as the full power bikes do, and the full power bikes are no benefit because you can't use high power modes anyway or you won't complete the ride without running out of juice. I know some people will say that riding turned off defeats the point of having an e-bike, but the same argument could be levelled at riding an e-bike rather than riding a motorbike.

[@christiancasado6153]

I do love mid assist E. Bikes. Love their looks much better than tanks E. Bikes. And when you live in apartment second floor like I do, it's a great help. Unfortunately these bikes have less battery, less carbon, less power and less wheit but soooo expensive!

[@matthewlazanich2790]

For someone in the market for an Ebike (leaning towards full power) thank you to the guy on the right for being actually candid about mid assist. Every review is just a commercial for every bike saying they’re all amazing!

[@Phlizz]

Bogus 😂 My Rise is one of the best things bikewise that happened to me. More laps with a bike that behaves like a regular push bike. I ride with full power and no assist friends no problem. Mid-assist FTW!!!

[@adrianoabila6854]

Does Orbea Rise fit into this category? I was resistant to move to e-bike (initial cost!) but switched few months ago and I am very happy to have done it with Orbea Rise. It still demands a good work out (trial mode!) but I can go much longer, higher and having much more fun. Someone could think I am riding a normal bike when going uphill, but it is just a choice of how much assistance vs saving power to ride longer in the day. Moreover, a lighter e-bike makes a big difference when you need to carry it over tougher obstacles.

[@MichalM2012]

I love my Orbea Rise M10. I handle it as normal mountain bike and it has quite powerful motor at the same time. I usually ride alone, but I can also ride with my analogue friend (on ECO) or with my full fat friends (trail, turbo) wuth slightly more effort. On top of that I have carry my bike to the fifth flloor and I can imagine doing this with the 25kg monster.

[@roykelly8103]

One of the reasons I bought the Giant Trance - E was that it didn't have a digital display. I just wanted buttons to press up or down for the power.

[@povaraioan1650]

Steve and Doddy, two legends!

[@PaulMoody]

Factory settings on SL bikes often don’t give that uphill rush and make it challenging to keep up with full fat emtbs. I’ve helped a number of riders tune their power modes to better match full fat eco/trail modes - “feels like a new bike” is the common reaction to retuned modes. Yes, battery life does suffer, but that’s okay for the 2-3hr rides most are doing.

[@deanrwilson]

That's a good point the sweet spot is 2-3 hours.! On my full power I often come back with 40-45% charge depending on conditions.

[@kodithebear]

Love my full power ebike.

[@PerfodDk]

I like the Bosch Kiox 300 Display , i dont need to use my Garmin anymore now the Kiox 300 also got Navigaion. So Emtb dont have to be completly stealth

[@kenalexander8809]

I have a specialized turbo sl and my wife has a Trek Rail and now she can keep up and often passes me on long climbs and normally she used to hate climbs. Only frustration is places where eMTBs are not allowed.

[@tonyrobinson1623]

@Kudmond X Pretty much all National Forests in the US.

[@embn]

Nice one, Ken! It's great you and your wife can head out riding together!

[@islandaerial3414]

Any eMTB can be an 'all rounder' ffs

[@embn]

Agreed. Chris recently went on an XC epic ride with Rich Payne from GMBN on a DH EMTB! 😅

[@JBean_COCR]

I like everything simple and elegant, from both a visual and engineering aspect.

[@davidluggie1]

Thanks for the clip of my bike made my day. 🤣🤣🤣

[@mikenimmick3920]

I'm with you on this whole e-bike lite stuff...FULL POWER 85nm or forget it.

[@rossallen2882]

Can confirm I carry beer, dogs, and my partner in the front of the Cube Cargo Bike!🤣🤣👍

[@nigelfoulds284]

Great show guys.... We know you have to keep topping up tubeless tires with sealant, but do you ever need to clean the tyres out from dried on old sealant?

[@neilpatching7443]

Nice to get a shout out guys thanks 😊

[@halforma1]

Full power EMB thanks very much...I totally agree. Half way is no mans land..

[@eldenthing1]

Need to look more into digital drivetrains if you want to see where the future of MTB is headed :) A rundown of advantages and disadvantages would make a good episode both for EMBN and GMBN.

[@jonnywalker169]

Tried the less powerful bikes believing the hype. Waste of time ! What we want are full power bikes but same weight as the less power ones ,for the money we pay they should be lighter and better equipped 👍

[@tonyrobinson1623]

They will get lighter, but they limited by battery power density. I have also heard that the Tq is down powered to 50nm and that it could be adjusted up to 100nm.

[@DoubleTap702]

You can have that with the orbea. It uses an ep8, just a different tune

[@mossy.trails5289]

What? ..rubbish. I've got a Rise and ride with analogue riders no problem. I can also ride with full fattys just need to up a power mode. The benefits of the mid-assist far outweigh the negatives for me.

[@kieran710]

Same could agree more.

[@Kiteholic]

the cleanest the design the better

[@tonyrobinson1623]

The SL bikes work best for people who, for various reasons, want to be able to keep up with much better regular bikers while feeling more like they're on a regular bike. In my case I'm 63, but many of my riding friends are great riders and are in their 30s and 40s, plus I hate the heavy handling of a full power bike. I also have no riding friends who ride full power bikes

[@brianbathgate4944]

Love a tidy cockpit but we need more integrated navigation. It’s a pain in the hoop having a Garmin to charge/attach, be great if the next Mastermind had a screen like a Garmin, full Trail Forks/Komoot integration, easily updates with your phone 👍

[@Flex-Jitsu]

In addition to the drive side, add a requirement that the dropper seat must be fully extended to get a Super Nice.

[@TheStryder400]

Kind of agree with Doddy there with the mid vs full Ebikes.

[@kieran710]

See i have never thought of it that way but i do agree but i now have a rise which is mid powered bike and its a blast absolutely love it and the lower weight is a bonus but still heavy enough to point and shoot and im light enough and fit enough still to keep up with any full fat.

[@Taylor5084]

For someone like me who is disabled a “mid” powered emtb is a great option as it allows me the feel of a mtb but still allow me to keep up with friends riding a non emtb. I do think e-bikes have a huge gap in promoting this aspect of their ability to showcase how they can help people gain access to trails whilst having a disability

[@gsum1000]

I don't find much difference between the uphill capabilities of my Orbea Rise compared to my previous bike, a 2017 Trek Powerfly. The limiting factor for both bikes is loose, steep ground together with whether I can keep the front wheel on the ground. The Rise is a fine bike but it does have a very serious flaw - the BB height is far too low, leading to huge problems with pedal strikes even with the rear sus locked out. Narrow singletracks at such places as Mabie and Ae Forest are unrideable. I'm hoping that the 160mm cranks currently on order will help.

[@andrewwelbourn9577]

I’ve only ridden an eMTB once to date, a Ducati high power version, and then only for a short time and didn’t particularly get on with it. I currently ride a Giant trance analogue bike and will at some point buy an eMTB mainly as I want to climb some of the Tour de France climbs in the alps and won’t be able to do that on my regular bike, either road or MTB. An eMTB will also open up some trails I wouldn’t normally ride, would something like the Trek with the TQ motor have enough power and range? I really don’t fancy the weight of a full power bike for when I have to get it over gates or on the car.

[@evanbrom1]

I like the look and lower CG of the integrated batt, but I do worry about how hard it will be to find a replacement in 4-6 years when the battery needs a replacement. The older bolt on seem much more universal.

[@andrewpeat530]

I think the third party suppliers will step in and fill the void for popular battery packs as manufacturers drop support, as there are always far east companies looking for gaps in the market to profit from

[@rjahn3000]

I love my Trek Fuel E. very quite and looks nearly identical to the new version of the regular Fuel.

[@roddas26]

Kenevo SL here running 170 ZEB up front a Kitsuma Coil out back. Set up mullet on carbon rovals. Enve M9 bars Diety stem and Stamp flat pedals. Riding loads more, having more fun and riding better than ever @ 47 years of age. 😁

[@thewheelofhc]

full power, so stable in the rough , only downside is getting that thing over the tailgate

[@jroase1658]

For me I like the bigger powered bike. Just soaks up all the chatter way better and I “sometimes” like the motor to due most of the work It’s nice to have the option .

[@NerdsonDirtMTB]

I ended up getting a Kenevo SL (low powered) for riding with my younger, stronger ride buddies and a Levo full power for the "full gas" days. I do prefer the more detailed display of the Kenevo.

[@iconaan]

Light and fully powerful, and the price is mind-blowing, but all manufacturers are exaggerating!

[@nitraM321]

if you want a full power light bike, get the Orbea Rise, it has 85nm, just get stunlocker.

[@tomquimby8669]

Chaser looks nice Finally!! manufacturers are catching up the mass market requirement for all around bikes.

[@RobHill00]

Mainly ride on my own so my Kenevo SL is perfect, you get a good work and a bit of assist when you need it! I turn it off completely on some stuff actually had a bloke on a full fat come past and said cheers for letting him by and he commented e-bike wanker coming through!😂 he didn’t realise I was on one as well!

[@easty-stage-4-fighter.]

My next bike, if im lucky , to replace my whyte e160 would be a full power , alloy, 700wh+ full sus, with minimalist display , abs, with great spec..... you two presenting was a good laugh.

[@rodbarton2354]

You’re missing a key point. Unlike Europe, eBikes are banned from many trails in the USA. I ride a super light because of the stealth feature. The more it looks like an traditional bike the better. Less hassle from the rangers.

[@kodithebear]

Is anything good there? 😂

[@drewl4921]

I have a Levo hard tail that I think has 50nm but that’s more than enough for me and hardly ever have it in turbo. I’d like a Rise next !

[@kieran710]

I had the levo ht and have the Rise now love the full sus so much more its more comfortable to ride an after i changed the saddle that made a big difference but totally agree the power is perfect and being a lighter bike feels amazing go for it. The rise does feel a tad more powerful but not loads as you have to pedal faster have a faster cadence to get the power out the rise but it has more adjustment on the app but remember if you get one to change it from factory setting as it only comes set at 47nm.

[@drewl4921]

@@kieran710 thanks for the reply been dithering over pulling the plug on one for a long time!

[@boggybigpants9462]

You don’t mince your words Doddy …good on ya …say it how it is 👍

[@jevgeniardassov]

The dude that hated light e-bike must be outta shape. We ride in a up to 14 people e-bike group. Since I still ride normal bikes I usually use my Turbo Levo in ECO, which I put at 30% in both power and torque. So I’d be ok with 50-60 Nm instead of 95 Nm. But I get it’s not for everyone.

[@plokmko0]

HUZZAH !!! bike is an Izip Dash, THX for the SN shoutout, if your are ever in NJ the pizza is on me, Cheers !

[@Aspire2Cycle]

I want a E mountain bike I can like an analog bike when the battery is dead! As I get stronger, I won't need to rely on the battery to power the bike. I also want something that's lightweight that I can pick up. That's why I'm going with the Trek Fuel EXe 9.7

[@davekao1964]

Surely opens up a lot more trails if you want to be sneaky.

[@porroco]

Wonder if new shimano EP8 can be retrofited to older model ep8? Or do i need rk buy a new santacruz bullit

[@hjkman2511]

Come to the Isle of Man I’ll bring you on some good trails

[@jasonborne5724]

I love the look and feel of the new Fuel EX e. E MTBs are facing bans all over the US. The more they look like a motorcycle and race UP the trails, the more they are going to be banned. Realize that one of the biggest haters of e MTBs is the Mountain Bike community itself. A little assistance for the old and or heavy on a normal looking MTB would be much more acceptable than a full fat bike. If I do ride with friends on bikes with huge motors, it only makes a significant difference on long uphills. They either go at my speed, so we stay together, or they wait at the top. I’m fine with either and I enjoy a light, flickable bike, that still gives me a good workout. The industry needs to proceed with baby steps, or we will all be riding in motorcycle parks only. E MTB sales will go off a cliff.

[@tonyrobinson1623]

I wish Ebikes in the US had been capped at 60nm from the beginning. We would have much less conflict with regular bikes and land managers.

[@Mindycogswell]

Not sure if this is the proper forum to request reviews but I would LOVE to see a review of the ew Weapon X by San Diego, ca based FLX. If this isn’t the right spot let me know where to go…. By the way, the Weapon x will start shipping in June of this year. But they do have a prototype and the reviews have been done mostly by FLX…. Not sired how biased those reviews would be.

[@JC-un4bg]

I ride on my own because I don’t have friends 😂😂😂😂😂 . I think the lighter ones are have that appeal if the battery completely runs out .

[@guyd4067]

Rode a Rise recently. Not for me, gimme the whole thing, thanks.

[@rogercorben4283]

I wish I had one just to throw over fences. At 62 you seem to notice 25kg when you have to lift it over your head.

[@ltrtg13]

What's the likelihood someone could talk Anna into sitting in an e-cargo bike storage full of water? Would she want the water warm?

[@mahennaiker5072]

Any help or suggestion looking to purchase a full power bosch motor ebike which one is the best brand pref a XC or Enduro size XL Thats available in South Africa 🇿🇦

[@mikejefferson1284]

Univega made the first (volume ) production mtb

[@danielcedolin2034]

I think you are on the wrong page with ebikes . We all have ridden BIKES no power but legs . I’m sure like me we have loved every minute . The pain of climbing to the fun of descents. Surely just a little help up is all we need and in exchange for poppy heavy 19 /20 kg bike on the way down (yes 19 kg is still planted compared to a normal bike) but 23 to 26 kg on a bike is that to much for a mountain biker that never goes to a mountain . Just hills and trail centres . Why oh why do we need heavy motorcycles with 90 newton mtrs yes I have one but so wish I had a lighter 50/60 newton mtr bike . Come and ride the Shropshire longmynd and local trails and you will regret a full power Ebike 😂😂

[@tomquimby8669]

I like your gnome hat, does that help?

[@embn]

It's Steve's thinking hat! 😂😂

[@tjeers3098]

Loose the Beanie mate.

[@jeremybub]

We call it “Mid-power riders are stuck in Purgatory”

[@kodithebear]

🤣

[@HelloHello-gv2gg]

When will Bosch make a setup that is as stealth as shimano’s. Their current setup is so bulky and such a deterrent.

[@55mblindy]

Second🎉

[@streddaz]

The climbing difference between a lightweight and full fat in some cases is no different than a fit rider and not so fit rider on a normal non-Ebke. It's even the same on identical Ebike with riders of different skills and fitness. The only time where the bike significantly makes a difference if both riders have about the same skill and fitness. How many times in the past have you had to wait or be waited on at the top of a climb or the bottom of a descent? I ride dirt bikes and we wait for slower riders, it not so much a big deal.

[@tsw123456789]

can you go the Falklands

[@garybrown5769]

Mountain bike book by rapha 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@tommontgomery2674]

It's pronounced..."New Joy-sy"

[@callumcopley6780]

Full fat . But they need to be a tad lighter . Sure by 2026 we will see a full fat 1200 watt battery and about 16 to 17.5 kg wireless everything

[@razorree]

these days with massive displays are not gone ...hahaha....lol..... just look at Bosch with Kiox or Nyon.....what a joke.....

[@melbournechugging2999]

Spot the difference yeah my wallet is empty because I got ripped off buying an overpriced mtb 👎👎👎👎👎👎

[@visserswp]

What’s that app called exact.y cuz I can’t find it