How the Balance your brand new LiFePO4 batteries

[@EngineerMikeF]

Perfect timing, i was about to charge 4 Elefast 12V batteries for the 1st time to put in my camper, i ordered the 30V power supply to make that go smoothly (my bench power supply is decades old, no amp control). Thanks, this video plugs that 1st time charge, periodic balance process nicely

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I'm glad it helped, Mike. Please consider sharing this video. I think it's an important one and I'd like to get this message out.

[@thechiefsway2618]

I had made a video about doing this to an entire battery bank when I discovered I was having and issue. I had noticed that while reviewing the Solar Charge Controller memory there were voltage spikes occasionally up to 16-18vdc on a 12v system. I discovered that the voltage spike was caused when one of the batteries dropped out of the bank when the BMS cut it off. The batteries had one cell like you explained that exceeded 3.65vdc and the BMS had a cell over voltage error. This would happen during active charging. After charging was completed and there was a load on the bank the bank voltage reduced to the point of where the voltage of the battery that had dropped out matched the bank and the BMS would turn on and the battery would rejoin with a rush of current usually in. Had this happen to where two batteries would drop out at different voltages. I monitored the charge Current and Voltage of the battery that dropped out first and noted the bank voltage at the time it cut out. I adjusted the Solar Charge Controllers charge parameters so it would charge the bank to a voltage a tenth below the cut off so the battery would not drop out. Increased the voltage a tenth every 4 to 5 days as the battery balanced since it didn't disconnect. Eventually the entire bank voltage was raised to 14.4vdc which is a full charge for all batteries. The two problem batteries were obviously balanced but all batteries in the group were micro balanced also. Hope this helps someone.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Yep that's what I would expect. You seem to get this. You might want to look into my BankManager marinedcac.com/pages/bankmanager It stops charging at a true 100 percent. Charging to voltage simply doesn't work for long life in an actively used LiFePO4 bank. You will see longer life with my device.

[@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101]

Good video Clark. Very helpful.

[@chriswestenskow5202]

This is good, but may not work as described with some BMSs. Most BMSs seem to be set to only balance above a certain voltage threshold and many are set to only balance while charging. A problem comes in that the BMS threshold for detecting charging can be quite a bit higher than the balance current, meaning that only a tiny bit of balancing occurs with each cycle. With BMSs with BlueTooth, at least, with the right app, you can see what is going on with the balancing behavior, and possibly tweak some parameters to make it more effective. The challenge is that not all BMSs and fimware versions behave the same, so each one may be a slightly different puzzle to solve.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Absolutely. I think I report on any BMS personality traits I found on batteries I reviewed so buying one of them might make balancing easier. Yes BMS is a big thing, bigger than I initially thought. I think one of the BMS s I tested required a .5a charge to stay in balance mode. It had a BMS so that's good. For that one I think the bench supply is especially important. It's hard to choose how deep to go in a video like this. I tried to at least address topics like this in a passing way without taking everyone on a deep trip and loosing people along the way.

[@Lapeerphoto]

Good clear explanation!! I'm bookmarking and sharing it with new LiFePO4 battery owners! When you type "top balance your new battery". It is hard to describe. This clears up lots of normal questions! Thanks.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I really appreciate the shares. Yes it took me a year to come up with a good way to top balance without disassembly and how to describe it I think this is an important video.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Please consider sharing this with friends. I think it's important.

[@infineite5132]

Thank you so much Clark for sharing your expertise & knowledge on this critical subject!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

So nice of you to say

[@Sonnell]

@@Clarks-Adventure Hi Clark, the thumbnail has a typo if I am not mistaken :)

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I don't see it. But k can't spell. What should I fix?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

@Sonnell oh I see it

[@Sonnell]

@@Clarks-Adventure Sorry for the late reply. it is "to" instead of "do" :)

[@mikeg7924]

Another excellent video Clark. I just bought two Redodo 12V 100Ah Group31 Smart Bluetooth Lithium LiFePO4 Battery with Real-Time Capacity Monitoring. I couldn't resist as the cost for two of them to my front door on sale with discounts was $380.00. Unfortunately their app does not appear to show individual cell voltages, but simply reports good or bad balance? Looks like I will be assuming. Redodo recommends that you charge each battery individually to 100% prior to putting them in parallel and into service. I guess that's their way of balancing all the cells. Either way, for the price, it was a no brainer. Even if I only get 2000 cycles vs 3000 cycles, it's a heck of a lot better than the $400/each AGM's that I currently have. 😉

[@ConCoa]

Great explanation at just the right detail. Superb. Thank you.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Thank you

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Please consider sharing this with friends. I think it's important.

[@lenwhatever4187]

Batteries with BT +1, batteries without BT -1, one more possibility: no BT but has an obviously openable case, like it is held together with screws. In this last case each cell can be charged/monitored/etc. separately. so it can be balanced even if the battery didn't come with a balancer. Only one thing, batteries that come with screws probably have a balancer and BT or some other form of monitoring anyway.... and will cost more because screws cost money. No I am not saying the $0.04 spent on screws will make that much of a difference in finished price but rather using screws to assemble things shows a company that is willing to go an extra mile (or couple of yards anyway) so more extras inside are likely. I do understand one might decide a battery with a screwed on case would make a questionable boat battery ;) Thanks for the video

[@Clarks-Adventure]

After opening as many cases with a hammer and chisel Believe Me I'm a fan of screws! But that case has to be plastic, most screw cases are steel so no good around salt water. So far the best thing I've touched is the VoltGo. Has everything including a fire extinguisher and with my discount it's not even that expensive. Check the leader board link

[@stevenelson3540]

Thanks man!

[@9111logic]

🙏 Thanks for sharing your way of balancing a battery of that type. Of course in other cases like with my batteries, we can arrange all the cells in parallel and top ballace them before repositioning them all in series. I have 48V 314A built three months ago that I had to abandon for a while and that only top balanced to 3.33V, surprisingly when I checked it today after all this time standing unused, I found that all cells were between 3.328v and 3.303v so perhaps I shall never bother to top balance all the way up to 3.65 especially after having already brought them to that voltage during the testing cycle.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

You really aren't balancing unless you charge closer to 3.65v. Cells at different states of charge have very similar voltages when not brought up into the hockystick

[@9111logic]

@@Clarks-Adventure I did that on my previous one so I want to experiment this way and if necessary use the active balancer while charging them closer to the ideal top voltage. Should that not give good results I can always go back to the traditional way in parallel up to 3.65 😉

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Yep Í personally wouldn't bother doing the parallel thing again. With no BMS involved it is easy to go too far and destroy all the cells (please don't ask how I know that.. PTSD) and it's a lot of work. I'd use an active balancer and leave them in parallel like you are doing but occasionally at high voltage.

[@9111logic]

@@Clarks-Adventure Sure but with my charger, I can set not only the max voltage and charging Amp (normally 40A @ 3.65V) but also the Amperage cut-off point while monitoring from the computer and saving all data and curves thus avoiding that risk. However, this time I shall choose the active balancer as you suggested charging up to as close as possible to 3.65V if not all the way there like with the previous battery. Thanks for your inputs 🙏

[@robert4027]

awesome info. just received a new Seikon battery today. 151 dollars black Friday deal... I'm thinking to just open it up and solder on a 5 amp active balancer. .

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Wouldn't be a bad idea but be crazy careful with an open battery!!!

[@robert4027]

@@Clarks-Adventure true . I'll think about it for a few days first

[@WG7D]

Thanks Clark my BMSs shut off my 12v Lipo at 13.66 v or 3.42 volts per cell. Soooo..adjust according I suppose? One is at least 1-2 tenths of a volt per cell off. I sure appreciate your help on these. Happy sailing sir! WG7D

[@sokbattery]

Nice video !

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Thanks. I haven't torn down one of your batteries yet. Are you interested?

[@oll333]

Thank you very much!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Glad it helped. Please consider sharing this with friends. I think it's important.

[@IteeAshole]

Hi great video. One question though - should this be done for a battery that has been previously fully discharged and then recharged or does it not matter? I just tried this test on my new battery, which has never been fully discharged; used maybe 25% and just charged it up. According to the bluetooth app, overcharge protection kicked in at 14.5v (14.47 actual with multi-meter connected). I believe that's pretty good and I'll likely forgo a balance for now. Agree? Thanks much; I'll be sure to share this video.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

It's the same procedure for brand new and 1 year old so that cycle is unimportant. I'd be pretty happy with 14.5v More telling would be max cell difference at 14.5

[@IteeAshole]

@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks for the reply and also sorry - I forgot to mention the bluetooth app does not display individual cell information. I'm having to wing it so to say. Really don't know why manufacturers that include bluetooth on their BMSs decide to limit the info (and require an active Internet connection too), but that's a totally different topic. And as reference for the curious - It's TimeUSB's latest 12v 140ah battery with the 150amp BMS. The Redodo and LiTime apps are not compatible for what it's worth, along with a few other dozen BMS BT apps I tried. Oh well.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

You might want to check out my review of the litime 140 starter battery. They don't give cell data because that app out and out lies to you. I'll be throwing it's BMS away and might do a video on swapping that battery to a great JK BMS soon. I have the new BMS $80. Best one for the money by far. Anyway that's why I did the video and tried to cover what to do without Bluetooth. I don't think anyone else covered this. Do lease share links to this video. This is important stuff

[@IteeAshole]

@@Clarks-Adventure Good morning. I did indeed just watch your review of the 140ah Litime and look forward to a possible BMS swap video if you go there. Regarding this battery, not sure if the internals are the same as my TimeUSB, but I do agree the BMS (app) sucks. Just as you mentioned, it doesn't give individual cell voltage, just an "OK" style message. But it did give me 14.47v charge just before cutoff, which I feel pretty good about. It's not a starting battery like your Litime and weighs just 28lbs compared to your Litime's 36+ lbs. I also only paid $215 Black Friday pricing, which is a nice deal. I definitely do not like the need for Internet connectivity for the app to pull battery info, which limits off-grid use and may require a separate battery monitor, but I'll likely keep it for it's intended purpose - which is just extra amp hours in a small package for basic off-grid power. Thanks again!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

If you found yourself as the only guy in the world who makes a device that solves a big problem would you give away all your secrets in a KZbin video?

[@s.mendez7160]

Where is the link to the spreadsheet of battery tests again? Thank you.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

In the description of every review. It's also near the BankManager manuals at MarineDCAC.com

[@s.mendez7160]

@@Clarks-Adventure Thank you.

[@s.mendez7160]

Clark, have you measured the ripple on these two power supplies you mention? or at least the one in this video?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I guess I have my nice new osiliscope right there I could. But for the reason I'm using it here it just doesn't matter. The battery will smooth things out. I have a rather large cap I keep around to help this power supply action the BankManagers contactor. Otherwise it can't handle the power spike the bistable requires. I'm sure the 10a 30v unit would though. Or the Bank manager with a monostable relay

[@s.mendez7160]

@@Clarks-Adventure That's cool. Meanwhile, I don't see the link to the battery review spreadsheet on your new website? How do I review the lastest versions? Thanks.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

It's linked in the description of every review video. It's on the new webpage near the link to manuals for the BankManager

[@roberthallas349]

Hi, I’m getting a LIFPO4 24v 280ah battery with Bluetooth, and temperature control, should I charge it before using? Thanks. 😎🏍

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Watch the video You should charge it AND balance it before using.

[@roberthallas349]

I was told, charge the battery to 100%, then put it in the system, and you are ready to go. 😎🏍

[@roberthallas349]

I also bought the battery charger for my battery from the battery supplier (Fogstar in the UK). 😎🏍

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Lots of people say lots of things. Most li chargers overcharge li

[@1Homelife]

My battery doesn't have an app to show each cell voltage. So how can I tell if each cell is equal?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Watch the whole video. The last section answers that

[@cferinga1]

Can you suggest a reasonably priced power supply for 48 volt system? I will soon have 3 48v. Voltgo batteries. Thanks.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

That one in the description of the video and the video

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I used it to balance that 48v battery

[@samtrosper7224]

Can this process be done by altering absorption and float voltages with a Victron solar charge controller.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Likely but as you approach highest cell max voltage slow down your charge rate I suggest a towel on the panel and a friend to move it for you. " More, less, a little more.."

[@johnnylightning1491]

So it look like I can't do what you are doing with anything but a bench power supply, for instance my Victron battery charger. Looks like I need to get another gizmo. Keep the good stuff coming Clark.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

You can. But this is so much easier

[@jimduke5545]

You don’t need a bench power supply. A good programable charger (Victron ip22 or ip65/67) will do this easily. In fact, if you have good chargers (mppt, dcdc, alternator, shorepower) with the proper absorption settings, you will not need to do this type of maintenance balancing as the cells will be balanced each charge cycle at your normal absorption voltage. For cheap batteries, particularly when new, It isn’t a bad idea to do this type of maintenance/commisioning balancing. if you see your cells out of balance, because you aren’t routinely/normally balancing them at absorption voltage (usually 14.2v for 12v systems), it also can be a good idea, but it shouldn’t be necessary with quality charging and charging profiles.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

@jimduke5545 you might want to take a look at this. marinedcac.com/pages/bankmanager Balancing voltages cause overcharge. This shortens the life of your batteries do balancing shouldn't be done every cycle. Yours is a common misconception which I'm trying to change with this channel. The academic papers support my position

[@Grandassets]

@@jimduke5545 the problem is most of these guys are buying their batteries, BMSs and chargers on WISH, and probably running it into a Ali Express Inverter

[@budmartin3344]

So what is the acceptable Delta Voltage between cells?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The smaller the better. But yes I should have addressed this. I like to see less than .1v at the high end. If you charge at a low c rate this is a little less important. If you are planning on charging hard this is more important. It's especially important to get the balance close if you charge without a BankManager. Since overcharging and unbalanced pack REALLY overcharges the high cell

[@nik-lc3ob]

Can you check a Redodo battery that actually has bluetooth, but no individual cell voltages are displayed in their app? Is it really balancing, or is it just saying that it's balancing? I wonder if a third party app could be used...

[@Clarks-Adventure]

What battery are you referring to. If it's that 140, I suspect it's the same as the liTime. That BMS isn't any good. I'm about to throw it away and install a good JK BMS. I'll do a video on that when I get around to it

[@nik-lc3ob]

@@Clarks-Adventure Redodo 12V 100AH Smart

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The best thing to do is write Redodo as a buyer asking for them to contact my channel That's usually how these things start

[@normanbell1410]

What happened to the list of batteries tested?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The new address is in the description of all the review videos It's on MarineDCAC.com near the BankManager manual

[@AlAl-pu1oh]

Lithium batteries are hygroscopic... Lithium's affinity for moisture can cause problems during manufacturing and lead to safety issues. To produce quality batteries, manufacturers use dehumidifiers to maintain a moisture-controlled environment with a relative humidity (RH) of less than 0.5% desiccant dehumidifiers are critical... Do you check for any de-humification packages inside the case?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I believe the cells are well sealed. When they ruptured the smell is quite distinctive. So moisture in the case could certainly cause corrosion of the BMS and contacts I don't believe the cells are at risk Also most every battery I opened smells like foam solvent (I use the term Chinese factory). This tells me the battery cases are pretty well sealed

[@dyslectische]

Its really stupid that the battery go out off balance in a year . And i ask my self wy ? Is it the settings ? The bms have function you can select. Balance by charge. Balance always on. What are the best settings ??

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I think going out of balance comes down to differences in internal resistance. Definitely some difference in the cells. So one battery might go out easily while another by the same company may stay in balance for years of use

[@dyslectische]

@Clarks-Adventure i have to same battery here . One is perfectly balanced no problem. 2e one is out of balance with 0.300volt . Try to reset it by longtime charger on it . Use a victron program charger so i can set the volts higher by adjust the volts output. Good thing is that Victron support 0.01 volts adjustment.

[@awolfey]

How did you know I have a brand new battery that just arrived yesterday?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I have my spies. And I'm secretly your personal guardian angel.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Please consider sharing this with friends. I think it's important.

[@Sv_SeaDuctress]

So I am the guy that knows nothing and I am still confused. Are you moving those leads around?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Nope. And the battery was never opened.

[@Sv_SeaDuctress]

@@Clarks-Adventure Still a bit confused but I am learning as I go. Your content is spot on. Thanks

[@Clarks-Adventure]

If your questions are about balancing you might want to scan through some of my battery reviews. I know I manually balance a few of them on camera and my discussion might be helpful

[@Sv_SeaDuctress]

@ will do! Thanks.

[@drjasper100]

I usually like your video's but this one really made me feel like adunce. 😢 i had assumed the purpose of any inbuilt BMS was to balance the battery. I dont want to be performing 'maintenance', i just want to go sailing. 😢

[@Clarks-Adventure]

If you charge to a high voltage you are right but you won't get long battery life. Not any longer then lead. If you charge the BankManager way and stop at 100 percent charge the BMS can't do that part of its job.

[@glennr9913]

I'm converting a 48 volt golf cart over to LiPO4 from Lead-Acid. I purchased 4 12 volt 100 Amp Hour LiPO4 batteries and a Vevor 35 amp smart charger. I charged each battery individually. One battery didn't want to charge fully, so after thinking over it for a while I used a load tester to drain some power from it. That seemed to cure the issue and I was able to get that battery fully charged. I topped-off each battery 5-6 times over the course of 2 or 3 days, and then connected them all in parallel to balance as a group. After a couple of days, I topped the group off, still all connected in parallel. Each of the individual batteries now has the exact same voltage, 13.61. I don't have a bench power supply, but my Vevor smart charger indicates voltage & current as it charges. The readings fluctuate, which I believe indicates that it's tickling the BMS into equalizing the individual cells. Clark, have you used a smart charger like the Vevor? Does it perform the internal cell balancing that I think it does, or am I wrong about that? Does it sound like I balanced my cells, or did I misunderstand what's going on? Thanks,

[@Clarks-Adventure]

This is going to sound like I'm pushing my tech. But, nothing on the market charges LiFePO4 correctly except for the BankManager. They will put power in the batteries but they don't know how to start at 100 percent. Marketers use words like "smart" and "LiFePO4" to sell batteries, none of them are anything but a lead charger with go faster stripes. That being said, no external charger including the BankManager actually balanced cells. That's up to the BMS as it's the last device in the chain that can see individual cell voltages and do something about them. I think your process let the bad battery balance a bit. Enough to get it's shutoff voltage high enough for it to "take a charge". If they were mine I'd balance them all individually as per this video then expect better life As someone commented this video tells you how to give your batteries love.

[@sdcauldwell1]

“How to LoVe your LiFePO4”?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Yep. Give them love so they last

[@tonmommers7942]

I'm afraid that Clark thinks he realy knows to explain the subject, but somethimes the essence eludes him in his explanation.

[@jimgresham5529]

Too much bla-bla-bla, get to the point.