“Empty force”-is it real or fake?

“Empty force” is the alleged ability to move a person without physical contact. As martial artists become adept at sensing and responding appropriately to negative intent accompanying an attack, their bodies become trained to move protectively the right amount at the right time. Practice of one person sending and another responding to such (or similar) intent may be the movement mechanism that occurs in an empty-force demonstration.

[@rcoldman]

Thank you Robert. Your insightful presentation here adds new dimensions to my own thoughts and experiences relating to this subject. I do feel that the issue of "informed consent" arises in martial arts training situations where the teacher practices "empty force" with students. It makes an important difference whether the students are consciously aware of their own compliance or not. Unconscious compliance is clearly not a resourceful practice, and in the case of this video I've added below, the master himself seems to have become deluded as to his own abilities to influence at a distance with devastating consequences for him, his reputation and his future, and would naturally have led to the disillusionment of his students. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXanknZ_edudbKsfeature=shared

[@dsfgnk4]

Thanks for your detailed analysis.

[@BobJohnson992]

Many reputable Chinese refer to these compliant demonstrations as "psychological power". No credible Chinese martial artist recognizes "empty force" or "lin kong jin" as being real. In fact, both Chen Xiaowang and Feng Zhiqiang, in separate interviews simply shrugged off such discussions as being worthless.

[@dsfgnk4]

Interesting. Thank you for supplying this information.

[@voncrowne6603]

My knowledge of martial arts is very much lacking, but it seems to me that it operates much like esoteric schools - having initiates and masters who are obligated not to reveal higher knowledge to the un-initiated; hence why these two masters had no choice but to shrug. From my investigations into psychic abilities, it's my opinion that these latent abilities are coming online for humans even now and many people have displayed abilities beyond the ability of modern science to explain. Remote viewing, telepathy, ESP, precognition - the CIA is on record as having used them all. I have used telepathy to a small degree. You have to know that you know it's real, and that takes a lot of learning and understanding. The internet has opened the books and the toothpaste isn't going back in the tube. Great video, Robert. I'll have to check out your other stuff as I continue to look into martial arts.

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

Bob, your kung-fu is suboptimal. My kung-fu is better. Get better, or stfu

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

Do you know enough to disagree with what you've heard, Bob?

[@dsfgnk4]

​@@voncrowne6603 Thank you for this astute comment. In Japanese, the negative energy is called sakki 殺気 (the intent of the killer), which emanates from the opponent and is sensed by the defender, enabling movement to safety at the right time. Satsu 殺 is the kill part, and ki 気 is the same as the Chinese qi.

[@RedStoneWhite]

I learned from Richard M. Mooney beginning back in 1996. I learned Lin Kong Jing and Taiji Ruler from him. I'll say it now, just as I said it more than 20 years ago that LKJ (Powerful Empty Force) is a practice that can lead to heightened levels of perception and the ability to heal oneself and others. I've seen many demonstrations of this and those demos were quite dramatic. Also remember that the practice endows the practitioner with the ability to supercharge their strikes. It's called "contact" empty force and sometimes Solid force. If qi can be converted into jing and transmitted across empty space to change facial structures, erase wrinkles and mend broken bones rapidly, I imagine it could be used in a negative way. Have a look at Joseph Pierce Farrell and his book, "Manifesting Michelangelo" to see examples of "empty" force in action for miraculous healing.

[@dsfgnk4]

Thank you for the comment. The problem seems to arise when a training tool supersedes its role and becomes a theatrical device that is bound to be misunderstood.

[@RobertAgarHutton]

Visited Richard many years ago (maybe 30 years ago?) when on holiday in the USA and he was a most gracious host - he taught me a static knife threat defence that I still use all these years later - however he tried to demonstarte empty force on my wife and me and our three young children, and none of us was affected at all. The only time I have seen an empty force exhibition that I don't have an explanation for (i.e. not a completely fake load of rubbish nor a rapport effect event) was when my karate teacher was talking to a group of us (all black belts) and turned around and another black belt was teaching about 5 mtrs (5 yards) away with his back to us and my teacher made a pulling motion and the other teacher lost his balance as if he was indeed peing pulled backwards. So does it exist, hmmm I still think probably not, and more importantly, I think it has no use in the real world.

[@Trinacaria]

I thought Empty force was generated by the Internal fascia?

[@dsfgnk4]

Thank you for bringing up the subject of fascia. Fascia has interesting functions that are now being scientifically studied. However, I have not heard of any scientific evidence for claims ascribed to fascia for producing internal strength (nei jin) or, in this case, for the transmission of psychic energy. I am eager to hear such evidence in terms of physiology or other areas of scientific or other knowledge.

[@Trinacaria]

@@dsfgnk4 I have no scientific knowledge of this. I only repeat what my Sifu has taught his students. When he moves his fascia, then the opponent's fascia connects and mimics his fascia movement and as such their body moves 'uncontrollably'. I am not at that stage so I cannot confirm with my own practice, but I and others have witnessed other students being moved. One student flew across the room and hit a chair and almost broke his ribs with a minor movement from our Sifu. This only occured after the student challened the Sifu directly so was not a demonstration.

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

@BobJohnson992 Xingyiquan? Baguazhang? Chigong? Neigong?

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

Taiji?

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

Respect, Robert! Your kung-fu is strong

[@morninglighttaiji]

it's called 凌空勁 Volley jin in China, shortened to "kong jin" or empty force in the west...the name misleading as it's not a force, more of a reaction to how one's "qi " can be interacted with...By those who've developed the ability to do so..

[@dsfgnk4]

Thank you for supplying the characters and for your clarification.

[@morninglighttaiji]

@@dsfgnk4 You might find this interesting....What the "qi" is said to act on is called 气场 - qì chǎng or Qi field When we interact, it is with this field. The classics say, the mind leads that "Qi" , the "Qi" leads the body. If one can affect the "气场" the body will follow. whether touched or not, ...depending on level and ability of the practitioner.....

[@dsfgnk4]

@@morninglighttaiji Thanks again for this additional information and for including the characters and the diacritical marks on the pinyin transliterations.

[@bugabookatzenjammer661]

I appreciate your kung-fu

[@dsfgnk4]

Thank you for the compliment.