Endgame Tier List Update: Season 25 Perks and Origin Traits

[@insomniaddictesp]

The reason people see B as bad is because of gamer tier list culture not because the system is bad. When every tier list included S, S+, S++, which is stupid and silly, that’s how people come to the conclusion that B tier is bad which is not true.

[@ahawkone8850]

If it isn’t the best, then it’s garbage!

[@longps9528]

I cringe a little every time someone uses S+ in a tier list.

[@MrNuclearz]

But b stands for bad though

[@AceInTheSpade]

Weapons in destiny have evolved since d1. Yet the community mindset hasn't it seems. But part of this is on bungie encouraging the min maxing mindset while also trying to encourage variety and options. Truthfully, outside day 1 raids, dungeon, GM Nightfalls, and solo attempts at similar activities, the need for "the meta" takes a hard nose dive.

[@Circadian_Wolf]

Nah it’s not just gamer culture, the same exists with /10 ratings. 5/10 is supposed to be average, middle of the road but nowadays people treat anything lower than 7/10 as straight garbage.

[@denny8422]

I always appreciate the way you approach your own content with scrutiny constantly. it at worst gives us more content, and at best confirms you aren't just yapping to yap, despite how much of us love simply hearing you talk about the game. keep it goin' aegis

[@Zarrakon]

Holy cringe overload. Stop the gawk, bro doesn’t know or care abt u

[@denny8422]

@Zarrakon tfw you're just as random as the rest of any of us. foh

[@Zarrakon]

@@denny8422 tfw you use Reddit for 18 hours a day yes, that’s exactly my point bud, but I’m not glazing him to an unreal degree like the comment I’m replying to was, oggling about how much they love his voice

[@diabeticbacon8835]

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊​@@Zarrakon

[@Zarrakon]

@@diabeticbacon8835 fattie

[@jmfe10]

I want them to expand the Support Frame with other elements. There's no point in having multiple solar support autos (unless they make different weapon archetypes). Would be awesome to have a void version that grants overshields or a stasis one for frost armor. Don't know about arc or strand because amplified is kinda eh and woven mail all the time from a legendary would be busted.

[@ShadowNemesis575]

I've been saying for a while with the navigator and no hesitation we have 2 auto weapons that give buffs for shooting teammates and one is projectile based. Personally I would give that kinda support function to hardlight where solar can give cure/restoration, void gives void OS, and arc can give you a new arc verb because amplified gets kinda ignored and at best most people hate or don't really see the small advantages of speed boost which is tied to amplified. Because the weapons built on switching elements they can't just give it the verb aoe perks and they don't really seem to want to put chain reaction on primaries so why not just build hardlight around support? That's without considering you can use it to selfbuff since ricochet rounds is part of its identity.

[@themaxpanteraschannel9459]

In regards to Dark Ether Reaper, you can use another weapon to create the orbs, activate them and they will overflow ALL the weapons with the origin trait. So, if you need to overflow bittersweet, you can just create orbs with vantage point, for example, and they will be able to overflow both weapons on detonation. This way you don't have to waste heavy ammo on adds to get the effect.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah you'd just have to use another S25 weapon

[@arjunbaweja7755]

I want to add aegis that replenishing for the chill clip glaive is actually really nice. Because the shield slowing projectile is extremely powerful as a “no die” tool

[@TheAegisRelic]

I think Overflow/Impulse/Lead are all better, Replenishing ICD is annoying

[@Galaxy40k]

The wildest part about the Reconstruction nerf is that there now isn't a single top tier legendary solar heavy in the game. Just a few months ago, a gun being solar made it better because it surge-matched with Apex. Now we have, what, Marsillion? Crazy

[@pecador-torr]

29:33 this is really well thought out lol, good thing i saved my incandescent roll of the solar rocket sidearm

[@jwilsonred1913]

If they nerfed auto loading and Reconstruction because of Envious Arsenal being introduced, then it’s an all time moronic change

[@jasonwattier283]

Love your analysis videos. The depth and thoroughness is impressive. I also appreciate the “in reality” instead of “in theory” potency consideration of the perks.

[@SushiJuice]

As a long time lurker, could you maybe create a video explaining how someone would utilize your resources please? I open it up and just feel completely lost and overwhelmed. A video explainer, I think, would go a long way in improving this barrier to entry

[@TheAegisRelic]

I have an explainer video for my damage testing stuff but for these it's really just a guideline for understanding what an endgame player thinks about each aspect of the game, I have some introductory videos for understanding how stuff like endgame perk selection works

[@luk4aaaa]

I have been glazing Physic since FS launch, that gun is and always was broken, finally people get it.

[@ERFMXVCC]

Watched my man chug through multiple streams making these updates to Perks and Origin Traits and whatnot, all while sleep deprived as fuck. Thank you for your hard work tier list chungus

[@AceInTheSpade]

Appreciate all your hard work and contributions to the community. Keep it up! 👍😎

[@TheShadowPhoenix]

Absolutely incredible insight as always. It is deeply appreciated! It helps me make better use of the little time I have to play these days

[@Dedwagon]

Dark ether might be even a little bit better as when you have two guns with it, the unequipped one still gets overflowed

[@littlelogan]

vesper area denial GL (with attrition orbs) is legit an orb printer, its absurd.

[@patrickoakley7890]

So you know Bungie is definitely targeting it for a nerf eventually. *Sigh*

[@HowToTruly]

Take it easy on yourself bro hope you aren't beating yourself up in any way, you are honestly a king love your videos man!!!!!!!

[@WyattWalker-p9i]

You're the best bro keep up the good work. Just for fun, try using a demo on a rocket or grenade launcher with song of flame. If you run apex with demo bipod you can dump the entirety of the reserves if you do it right with song of flame. Especially when ignitions are fixed its like 2.5-3 mill in like 12 secs

[@trogdor21997]

The chaos reshaped uptime comment and the splash perks > spree perks are the two biggest things I’ve been preaching since TFS launch. I personally don’t like big damage perks like CR where I’m not fully in control of whether I’m “in combat” or not. Then with the shift to more ad dense encounters, dungeons, onslaught etc, I quickly noticed that spree perks don’t make as much sense anymore like you said. Doing 1.3x damage one at a time to 50 thrall running at me doesn’t do much versus jolting all of them or killing 4 with incandescent and they all ignite.

[@ashex999]

hey aegis, just wanted to know when the cam is coming in so we can finally see your feet while running. would to see them toes wiggling after the double dunk

[@junnKhya]

Dude.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Working on it love

[@chall7927]

@@junnKhya The Freak Shape really did us in

[@roguerunner14]

Great vid! Also, Air trigger has always worked as stated, but enhanced was bugged and instead of increasing reserves further, it didn’t increase them at all, making it an enhanced perk that was actually worse than its normal perk lmao

[@nago2338]

No need to apologize for how long your videos take. This information is premium. Please don't burn out!

[@sebik-2263]

Fucking awesome list man, love you for making the most detailed and well put together resources available!

[@Exotic__DX]

The Frenzy perk has fallen (to A Tier) billions must grind

[@sylokthedefiled7650]

Hi Aegis, aggressive fusion rifle guy here. I think you forgot to put coriolis force in S tier on this list.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Aur naur man

[@pch1370]

4:48 Flashbang warning.

[@TheAegisRelic]

In earlier attempts of recording this video I had a flashbang warning but I forgot this time around D:

[@subieguy1020]

Thank you for all the work that goes into this! One question I have is how you pick the weapons you do when building a class for different activities? Maybe a video idea?

[@TheAegisRelic]

That is a video idea for the future yeah

[@ruijikisu]

people see everything but S as bad, but forget that on the right build even a low tier perk can shine on prismatic hunter, a imminence with slice insanse, cause if you also add facet of bravery you have almost 100% uptime for sever and unraveling rounds. so you have a debuff to go invis, splash damage from unraveling. ideally you also get chaos reshaped for better damage, but its slice that makes this work buildcrafting wise. its so good for solo content (just unfortunate that unraveling rounds can hit the panels in the new dungeon lol)

[@richardcarson3596]

i looked across from the h rating explanation and saw kinetic tremors. i lost it until i saw they were unrelated.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah that's just a key lmao

[@Casualfield]

Much prefer this new tier list of usability instead of vacuum.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Glad to hear it!

[@Eclipsical]

i love aegis spreading me and filling me up with good content 🤤

[@ahawkone8850]

I think these tier definitions make good sense for the most part.

[@gen8901]

How many employees were fired during this restructuring?

[@carloramos]

I think Desperate Measures is a step above other spree perks. In the current sandbox, it's basiclly a free 30% refreshable damage boost, since ability kills are abundant

[@TheAegisRelic]

It is pretty high, it's like second highest? Behind only OFA I believe, it was placed higher before but I think it's still a single target spree perk at the end of the day

[@oddkikisdragon1833]

Frenzy is the retired veteran that’s still fighting on new battlefields

[@Michael-r2y]

yo aegis, just an idea for certain raid encounters or speeds do you think emote text popping up in the chat could be used as a comm (for example if comms are crowded and someone does a designated emote the text that shows in chat signals the person watching for it to do a certain action)

[@zellegoodwin9046]

I actually recradted 21:41 surrounded onto my heal auto for the day 1. That last encounter it's super easy to proc

[@itsmoonlord24]

Mr speedrunner on my weapons mod slot should i still run quick slings, backup mags or use the new heavy and special ammo finder, the mod that reloads when stunning a champ?

[@TheAegisRelic]

Depends on weapon type most options you run Backup

[@primcrane8736]

@@TheAegisRelic bit unfortunate considering the primary goal from bungie was to make backup mag not as much of an auto-pick but like, the PvE mods kinda suck lol. wish we'd gotten more mods that actually gave consistent combat benefits instead of random and/or infrequent boosts.

[@Drakon4324]

One thing I’d like your opinion on is the future proofing of some of the origin traits. It’s something that been on my mind when watching your lists like these talk about origin traits being added on to new weapons. Early on example is you saying the dark ether origin trait would be excellent on an lmg but would we ever get this? Origin traits like dungeons, raids, seasonal, and planet seem to be 99% one and done with the exception being spire of the watcher becoming the base Rex mechanica trait. Do you think we really do need to account for the origin traits being added on to new weapons later?

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah I have a video idea in this vein, probably not soon though

[@HowHistory]

Destiny 101 back at it again, also did you change your mic settings? It sounds deeper. I liked it better before.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Nah but I record videos at different times so sometimes my voice is deeper or higher

[@SpongyBus]

I’ve been waiting for this since lightfall😩

[@Piqcked]

This video would have been very useful if we could change origin perks at will or from a more varied pool. People dont actually choose a weapon for its origin perks. Maybe for some weapon duplicates, there is an exception on this, but it's very rare.

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah the origin trait tier list is more informational than anything, like "oh I got this weapon is its origin trait any good"

[@CIII__]

JUST IN TIME

[@pecador-torr]

Loose change would be good if weaken worked with it, id be going crazy with a sidearm with it and dueling with briarbinds (for pvp obv)

[@Multiplex016]

Babe wake up, aegis released a new video

[@alexarhire4254]

I mean, is cascade really that niche, there are bosses with big or kinda easy crits to hit, and there s div too, now that reconstruction is ass if you need that fast kill or high dps chill inhibitor is the best, for reloading you have rof grapple and so on, every boss has a crit right, just not miss, if someone uses div and 5 people use chill inhibitor doesn't the dps make up for the lost of 1 member not doing dmg, it would be like 1 ghally 5 apex, only that div it s for consistency and not dmg :3

[@TheAegisRelic]

It's only niche because it takes the spot of a reload/refill perk, so you have to have some sort of reload assist for it to be good

[@MrSuspicious0]

Not having Zaouli's Bane on the notable weapons for its origin trait is criminal

[@TheAegisRelic]

The notable weapons section isn't super complete or designed to be a guide or anything, just examples of weapons that make good use of the trait :P

[@MrSuspicious0]

@TheAegisRelic yeah that's fair enough, just thought it was funny bc I can't remember the last time I saw the machine gun but I see zaoulis all the time. Good work tho 🙌

[@pvwetten]

Much appreciated!

[@sleady1917]

What do you think of air trigger on the acosmic GL. I’ve been using it with BnS and it seems pretty nice

[@TheAegisRelic]

Much worse than stuff like Envious

[@zeromythosver.]

I’m a little eh on the hands-down overtaking of damage perks by splash ones Like what are our splash ones: Destab, Incan, Voltshot, Jolting (aka better Voltshot for primaries), Firefly, Tremors, and Hatchling -Destab is pretty mid imo - Incan is good but it’s best on guns that deal great damage at base, since it rarely if ever rolls opposite column of damage perks, and the scorch itself really doesn’t do a ton of damage in endgame/under-light content, and does its damage over time - Voltshot is great (best splash on specials imo) but also similar to Incan, is at its best on hard-hitting guns like specials, and on primaries its lunch money just got stolen by Jolting - Jolting is great but it needs the right guns for it, ones with a steady stream of ammo use/hits/damage; will easily be better than Voltshot on traces, SMGs, autos, etc. and Jolt perks get to cheat for technically being splash AND damage perks since the afflicted target is also taking tick and bursts of extra damage from it before dying, unlike Incan or Destab which only occur when something has died already to their gun - Firefly is okay but it basically requires something to boost damage alongside it, and might be in order for a radius buff now that it’s constantly competing with bigger spread 3.0 effect perks - Tremors is great but similarly to Firefly, it really doesn’t feel great unless it’s got something like Frenzy or Huckleberry’s Rampage holding it up - Hatchling will always blow imo, but I’m sure certain Warlock builds like it Mainly when I think about these perks being overvalued, I’m thinking of primaries, where short of using a solar Healing + Incan primary, I prefer Midnight Coup with Explo/Rampage and its cracked stats to most any other primary at least for killing efficiency I’m thinking of how without Frenzy propping up Tremors on Blast Furnace, the whole idea of using Tremors might as well go out the window (as we can see by how undesirable Sacred Provenance v2 turned out to be for putting them in the same column) I just feel like splash is not an end-all-be-all, especially not without damage perks supporting them (save for the case of Heal Clip being so good you’d take that over a damage perk, which is still best on guns that hit hard/fast already) I’d think they’re more even, with just a slight bent towards splash perks when considering how specials easily get away with only splash perks no damage ones (because they deal good damage already)

[@TheAegisRelic]

I think we agree for the most part after reading your bullet points on every splash perk, but I do think that primaries and some specials are in a state where an archetype that is good enough would really rather have splash perks over damage perks, and I feel that I shouldn't rule against perks because they feel worse on worse/non-meta weapon families

[@zeromythosver.]

@TheAegisRelic I guess my question would be what are the primary archetypes mainly that are good enough, since it’s a given most specials hit hard enough to go splash w/o damage Cause things like HCs for instance, I can’t think of any gun where I could get away with splash without damage perks propping it up, and I think about how often I use rolls that full-send damage (like an Explo/Rampage or Explo/Frenzy) to good effect Things like certain void or arc primaries, their best roll might be something like Explo or Frenzy + Destab or Voltshot, but honestly they probably won’t ever leave the vault over just using a rocket sidearm with Volt or glaive with Destab, it’s stuff like that where certain guns get dragged down for me when I’d rather use their spread perk on a special instead I think in my head the two are too codependent or related to give either much more value consideration than the other-the exception being a slight bent towards splash perks, because of how they can stand alone on specials/heavies

[@Blackhart-7]

I just want to ask, honestly to all the peeps in the comments, is Withering Gaze preferable on Specials or on Heavy weapons? Genuinely curious

[@TheAegisRelic]

Definitely specials, you want a refill perk on heavies

[@Dragongaming-ws7bm]

eddy current should be bumped up to B or C tier for its niche abilities because its extremely strong on the arc subclass

[@viviolet7]

its very strong but it doesnt do anything that cant be done otherwise, and being on arc in the first place is rare

[@Dragongaming-ws7bm]

@ best reload perk out of them all so if you’re going arc theres should be no reason you shouldn’t take it if you’re looking for a reload trait. Its very strong and does what it does best

[@viviolet7]

@@Dragongaming-ws7bm best by what metric? the criteria is harder to meet than air trigger, and the scalar is lower. it's just numerically objectively worse

[@TheAegisRelic]

It's actually more significant on Prismatic, where you can readily available access to Amplified, but it's still not worthy of being in the upper tiers IMO

[@Dragongaming-ws7bm]

@@viviolet7 so youre telling me its HARD? to get a simple multikill with a arc grenade or arc anything to become amplifed? or you know 2 on command ways to be amped on hunter, warlock and collect traces and titans can literally just PUNCH. yea thats clearly hard asf. secondly i said its the best in slot for reload on any weapon that has it. and theres only one weapon which is last season pulse that has both air trigger and eddy and air only wins if you can get enough reload speed which it lacks. You could totally spec everything on corrasion to get a 1.04s reload speed that with tac mag tac mod and reload masterwork and enhanced air trigger while just having eddy alone while amped is a 1.25s and if u max out the last 4 or 6 reload it goes down to a 1.22s . Thers only a 0.18 difference in the reload between the two for a easy to proc buff on arc. SO again if you WANT more reload and the weapon has it is BIS. @TheAegisRelic i do hear on your opinion on this perk but if it putting that much work in by itself for a easy to proc buff on prism and arc it definitely deserves to be brought up a few tiers i think C tier was the niche category but whatever tier niche it deserves at the very least IMO and base on the stats, it deserves that much recognition

[@Derperific]

Finally, some good fucking food.

[@BosheitV]

Payload perks are too low imo, especially since in basically every contest mode in recent memory most used explosive payload plus shoot to loot. You also get explosive payload plus frenzy, or explosive payload plus incandescent it’s a free 10% dmg buff on hit without any conditions, gives a gun no damage drop off and is a 30% dmg buff if you happen to hit a body shot instead of a headshot very solid perk. Each to their own but

[@TheAegisRelic]

I talked about StL/EP being too niche of an interaction to really make EP specifically worth putting higher, and while EP makes for a classic combo with the perks you mentioned, I don't think it has the value it used to, I might shift it a bit higher at most next season though

[@BosheitV]

@@TheAegisRelicfair enough, kinda crazy how end game meta has developed haha

[@Triip-]

is Iterative loop (arc fusion) not a notable mention for nanotech tracer rockets ? 0:07

[@TheAegisRelic]

Not really, to be honest there aren't really any super notable weapons and even Dimensional is only relevant because of Raneiks

[@Triip-]

@@TheAegisRelic oh isee got it hope i can catch some of ur streams coz i havent been that into destiny past 3 months basically since final shape

[@paul2725]

aegis who are you supporting for this years worlds final?

[@TheAegisRelic]

A fifth T1 win would go crazy but Knight's popping off

[@ruijikisu]

dont quite understand your stance to explosive light, i think on rockets its better than bns aside from edge cases if you shoot 1 rocket to get bns and then get 3 buffed rockets thats just a 1% better damage buff than explosive light for the average of those 4 rockets, so you need to consistently get off more than 3 rockets in the bns duration to have noticeably higher damage so aside from special rolls (envious cold comfort or the new rocket with envious arsenal) or crazy strats like grapple reloading or radiant dance machines i cant see a bns rocket doing significantly more damage than a explosive light one. or am i missing something here?

[@TheAegisRelic]

EL is 20% with Pack, BnS is almost universally better unless you cannot dump rockets quickly

[@ruijikisu]

@TheAegisRelic ah true I didn't think of that... but doesn't the recon nerf hit bns harder for specifically dumping rockets fast?

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah sort of, but there are other options (specifically Envious Arsenal)

[@charlieteneyck6797]

Maybe it’s just me but it would have been nice if you read the perk when you talk about it I just can’t remember what ever perk does or even most

[@TheAegisRelic]

You can Ctrl+F the perk description in the tier list itself if you need to :P

[@charlieteneyck6797]

@ oh that’s cool. Thank you.

[@patrickoakley7890]

There has to be bots STILL making these tired ass "----- seconds, bro fell off" jokes. Can't be actual human beings doing that stuff at this point.

[@Hina_Hanta]

Excuse me while I go throw a couple dozen former god rolls in the trash....

[@SmolShippie]

I appreciate you

[@modernprophet5942]

Posted 33s ago is CRAZY

[@oddkikisdragon1833]

Im a Demolishonist believer

[@crunchiez]

Lethal...?

[@glforbie]

aegisaegisaegis

[@watdakwan]

Hi Aegis

[@zeroshadowzs]

If you went to a numbered system, I think it would work well. Card games tend to use numbers for their tiers, and you can dodge the cultural gamer attachment to things like s+ and s++ in tier lists.

[@jt2aw15]

loose change + solitude is stupid

[@Capitanmano123]

My opinion dropped

[@db1872]

Really appreciate all the work you put in. Personally it really bothers me to have eager edge as S tier when you dropped so many other perks for being niche. Eager edge is the literal definition of a niche perk as it doesnt help in any of the criteria defined.

[@TheAegisRelic]

It's kind of a meme to put it there because it's so different from other perks I'm not sure where I'd put it otherwise haha

[@NemSumeragi]

As someone who's also from the fighting game scene, I despise lettered tier lists. I much prefer tiers that are specifically named

[@TheAegisRelic]

Yeah I might transition away from letters

[@gabrieltorres6633]

Explosive light is underappreciated in certain endgame activities especially on GL. When you have things like attrion orbs on a GL and can make orbs on kills, you can keep a 60% damage buff up for 7 shots near definitely

[@robwesker]

Or just use bait and switch lol

[@gabrieltorres6633]

@robwesker bait and switch in a gm lol, on a champ doing 30% damage vs 60% damage lol 😆

[@SpiderReviver]

@@gabrieltorres6633 El is about 51% buff overall. 60% to just detonation dmg. Great perk for ad clear/gms/anything besides sustained dps.

[@robwesker]

@@gabrieltorres6633 I thought EL was only 25% per shot?

[@gabrieltorres6633]

@robwesker on rockets it is

[@Dispatch00]

chicken butt

[@gabrielgardner2054]

Hats off to whoever made the thumbnail look like the perk distribution charts lol

[@TheAegisRelic]

:D

[@Cookie-3]

:3

[@lemrant]

357 views in 14 minutes you fell off (I’m still eternally grateful for my new opinion tho 😎)

[@Neji1984]

You couldn't be more unoriginal if you tried

[@lemrant]

@ what if I touched you instead

[@The_Geni]

Wow No veiws in 45 seconds man fell off

[@Neji1984]

So unoriginal, makes you look like an idiot

[@HellenKellerFanClubPresident]

only 2.2k views in 2 hours, bro fell off

[@SpiderReviver]

:3