Ending Game of Thrones Was Always Impossible

[@gameking501]

In the Frame has become my favorite series on KZbin. The writing, editing, and insight is second to none. Thank you for all your brilliant work, Darren!

[@Darren_Mooney]

Don’t forget Omar, whose editing is phenomenal. I do all the easy stuff, he does everything else.

[@NotCapitalist]

It wasn't that it wasn't ended perfectly. A merely okay ending wouldn't have been a scandal. It's that it ended in an optimally bad fashion. It is hard to conceive of a way they could have ended it worse.

[@anna-flora999]

I mean, everyone dying would have been worse

[@poub06]

A lot of the S8 rewrite or "how it should’ve ended" are worst than what happened. And they all show that what people are pissed about is the outcomes, not necessarily the writing or execution. Keep D&D as writers, keep the six episodes planned, but end with Jon killing the NK before ruling with Dany and Jaime killing Cersei and boom, it’s now considered one of the best ending of all time. People spent more times listening to theories than actually trying to understand the story they were watching/reading.

[@azargX]

@@anna-flora999 would have been on brand though...

[@StBacchus]

@@anna-flora999 I dunno, I kind of like the idea of the white walkers overrunning the whole world because the morons in Westeros can't stop bickering for five minutes to mount a defense. Seems true to life somehow!

[@conorskerritt-morgan4045]

Nah. Most of the main plot points were fine with me. It just needed more time to actually reach that point. Have the Night King be the threat he was built up to be, not just a nuisance they get rid of in one night while only losing characters who had completed their arcs. Keep Danary's slow crumbling of restraint and principles, instead of having her throw away all her remaining scruples over the course of a bad week. I saw someone suggest that season 8 should have been focused solely on the Night King, a ninth season spent taking back King's Landing from Cersei, and a tenth on Danary's downfall following her descent into tyranny. Honestly, giving the storylines those sort of times to flourish would have been way more satisfying. Making Bran King was always daft, though.

[@SirDawkinsthemad]

It really felt like there should have been at least one more season for Game of Thrones. It just felt like it was trying to cram too much into that final season.

[@HUNbullseye]

Dany forgot about the possibility of another season...

[@nintendomusicchannel1317]

Or at least ten episodes for the last seasons, instead of seven and six?

[@4203105]

Considering it got pretty bad from season 5 onwards, there really should have been 4 seasons less.

[@DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen]

@Edward Lee Miller It still amazes me how people keep repeating this nonsense 🤦‍♂️ Worst fandom ever.

[@DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen]

There was no story for one more season.

[@dracosolis7956]

I don't think saying it was "always impossible" is entirely honest or accurate. It might have been a very difficult task, but not impossible. Had D&D decided to go for a couple extra seasons and take their time to flesh everything out, there's a good chance the ending may not have been the most satisfying. What we got was the opposite of unsatisfying. It was downright insulting. And all because they wanted to get it over with as soon as possible so they could move on to Star Wars. If the showrunners wanted to end Game of Thrones on a good note, they had all the means to do so. Maybe it wouldn't be a perfect ending, maybe not everything would end the way we wanted it to, and I think most fans would be happy with that. But to claim that avoiding such a bad ending is impossible is just plain inaccurate. That said, I fail to see how this assumption really ties in with the video very well. While the video itself makes a lot of good points, I think that claiming that ending GoT was "always impossible" is a bit too drastic a way to claim why HotD is being told in a different manner.

[@moosecampbell]

At the season 5 finale, I remarked that there was going to be no way to pull all the stories together into a satisfying end. We knew it for years. Life doesn't always have a satisfying end.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. Martin can't do it, and he has (a.) an unlimited budget, (b.) no personnel issues to worry about, and (c.) an unlimited timescale. Even with those freedoms (unavailable to a television show), Martin can't come up with a workable solution to the Myreenese Knot.

[@CeraSeptem]

Never stronger disagreed with you. It wasn't what happened that was the problem, it was how. All of the plot points that the story had been built toward are technically present, but it was handled basically as poorly as possible. And not for logistical reasons, no one forced them to end the story when they did: HBO offered everything they needed/wanted, the responsible parties simply refused.

[@BrennySpain]

I still can’t get doctor who out of my mind when I see Matt smith’s character lol

[@Darren_Mooney]

Fair enough. Although he has pushed really hard against being typecast - even harder than Tennant, I’d argue.

[@BrennySpain]

@@Darren_Mooney I definitely agree there. David tenant was the best doctor from the 2005 revival even though I stopped watching after Peter capaldi left. Honestly I just can’t get into anymore. It’s so dull to me nowadays. Star Wars and Star Trek will always be my favourite sci-fi movies and shows.

[@TheRedCap30]

That was me when I saw Morbius lol

[@BrennySpain]

@@TheRedCap30 true!

[@tatwood1123]

there were behind the cameras issues. the show makers wanted to leave, so there were really two options: they leave the show and replace them (which would have been a nightmare and would have made the ending even worse) or b, end it. there's only so much you can do

[@conceptualization101]

The final season was far too rushed. As someone who has only seen the last two seasons, I had less investment in the characters and didn't mind the specific plot points that left some fans feeling betrayed. The issue was that the writing, on a technical level, was terrible and the plot points felt rushed and unearned. They could have made those same plot points work by restructuring some plot points, making a few simple changes, and giving the material a couple more episodes and/or another season. Instead, the showrunners and writers clearly were lost without the source material to work from and became disinterested. The fact that they turned down HBO's offer of a full season and/or more seasons, shows that they just wanted to be done with it and move on. Crafting a satisfactory conclusion was, as Darren says, an unenviable task but in their disinterest, the showrunners made the worst version of it.

[@FranciscoAreasGuimaraes]

I remember hearing that HBO itself suggested having more seasons to flesh out the story and give it more time, but the showrunners wanted to be done with it and go to next the next thing, which was a star wars trilogy, if I'm not mistaken

[@gogauze]

@@FranciscoAreasGuimaraes which they subsequently blew off, hilariously enough.

[@dairesdepths]

An ending is better than a shit one

[@StBacchus]

It's interesting to hear Martin's explanation, but I feel like he's spent so much time thinking about all his millions of little threads that he's missing the big, obvious one: the Night King should have won. I actually thought that's where the story was going, when I read the books back in the day. Ultimately, the "Myreenese knot" stories don't really matter. What matters is that Westeros has been so weakened by internal conflict that it's just barely able to mount a defense against a nigh-unstoppable foe. Instead of taking that story to its logical conclusion (everybody dies because they're unable to cooperate), Arya Ex Machina swoops out of nowhere and saves the day. No surprise people found that unsatisfying, especially at this historical moment. Humans actually *are* facing an existential threat, so where's our Arya to stab climate change in the heart? But setting that aside, Cersei treated an existential threat to Westeros like another pawn on her chessboard and got rewarded for it. That should have built up to a showdown between Cersei the selfish villain and Daenerys the tyrant-slaying hero. But then Daenerys "went mad" and suddenly she became the villain and Cersei looked (relatively) like a victim. Cersei never got her comeuppance -- she got to die with her one true love. Meanwhile, Daenerys was betrayed by hers. In the books, I think there's plenty of groundwork for that ending. In the show it came out of nowhere, so it was frustrating. The showrunners had to follow Martin's ending even though they had changed so much of the rest of the story that the ending no longer made sense. Just for fun, here's my fan pitch for the series end: the White Walkers take out the North and continue on to the South, destroying everything in their path. Daenerys arrives at Westeros to find the zombie horde already besieging King's Landing. She and Cersei ally to defeat the White Walkers. With the help of her advisors, Daenerys finds a way to take out Cersei amidst the fighting (Cersei attempts the same, of course, but Daenerys wins). Arya manages to kill the Night King, but Daenerys takes the credit and the conveniently-empty throne. She marries Jon and it looks like a big happy ending. But meanwhile, the Starks are talking about forming their own kingdom in the North. The Greyjoys are still floating around. And Daenerys can't have children, so a succession battle is inevitable sooner or later. Worst of all, Daenerys's paranoia and megalomania and remaining dragons have only grown. Looking out over a ruined Westeros, Tyrion and Jon are left wondering whether Daenerys herself might be the next threat they have to face, and if so...what could possibly stop her?

[@sirisaxmanable]

The Battlestar Galactica reimagining used the same creative format, kinda make it up as they went along, and I think it's one of the main reasons the ending was so divisive. The ending to Game of Thrones evoked very similar feelings in me. In both cases, I liked the ideas presented but felt the execution fell short.

[@poppag8281]

5:25 it didn't have to though as there are alot of plot threds that were droped

[@MA-go7ee]

Oh get the hell out of here. The problem with GoT was NOT the it merely wasn't ended correctly. The last few season were downright BAD television. So many sins the biggest of which is completely ignoring established rules of the world. Yeah, i guess it is IMPOSSIBLE not give every major character ridiculous plot armour in The Long Night. IMPOSSIBLE in Beyond The Wall not to make it so that one Wight *conveniently* stays alive to be taken back while they rest all die for some reason. Or how Wights either can break through stone or cannot break through wood depending what the requires. Or Gendry's epic sprint to send a crow to Dany because (LMAO) he's the 'fastest'. Or the suddenly prevalence of cliche last minute saves. Or, hilariously, the Night King spearing the Dragon that flying overhead while ignoring Drogon carrying all his enemies literally chilled right in front of him on the ground. Speaking of, remember in The Long Night when Dany and Drogon just stayed on the ground until Wights attacked them just so Jorah could have a convenient hero moment? Oh God, remembering all this just makes me laugh. Or Jon in Battle of the Bastards miraculously dodging all arrows AND two cavalries clashing into each other. How about the council of Main Characters at the end where Tyrion, who was a prisoner that wasnt meant to speak, somehow ended up deciding everything. Or an Iron Islander laughing at a democratic vote when that's literally how they chose their king in the islands. Or Dorne and Pyke (who were explicitly promised independence by Dany btw) not making a fuss when the North secceded despite the fact a Northerner was on the throne? Or the fight between Jaime and budget Jack Sparrow (how he conveniently floated to where Jaime was we wont even talk about). Or the varying strength of Dragon fire. Or Arya surviving several stabs to the gut easily. I could go on forever, lol. The last seasons of GoT were STUPID. It was just 'not' ended correctly. If you think that is the main problem with it, not the writing, then you really should not be making critiques. There's nothing wrong with almost any of the overarching plot points. GoT could have had two 'meh' final seasons and still be beloved. It couldn't even rise to the level of mediocrity. Those final two seasons basically broke every logic and rule established earlier in addition to making bizarre mistakes about basic details of the world. Those seasons are breathtakingly bad.

[@kingnro1]

You seem extremely imvested in your critique of a fictional TV program

[@Rain-King]

In addition to narrative and thematic direction (or lack thereof), I think the last two seasons of "Game of Thrones" suffer from noticeably poorer writing quality, such as in the dialogue. However, these flaws are evident to a smaller extent in certain storylines from Season 5 and seem linked to the waning amount of source material with which to work. While other writers or showrunners might arguably have steered the series to a better conclusion, I think Darren rightly points out that the "Merenese knot" would have been the limiting factor no matter who was at the helm. It is telling that George R.R. Martin is still wrestling with this very issue in the books. Rather than an excuse, this just acknowledges the inevitable, overarching challenge facing the series from the beginning.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yeah. It's weird how many people think this is a partisan video or whatever. It's just making the very logical observation that if somebody could have ended "Game of Thrones", they would have. Most obivously, its original author. It's just context, which I know the internet has very little time for.

[@Rain-King]

@@Darren_Mooney Always honoured to have a comment acknowledged. :) To be fair, it's weird how a lot of videos and essays are interpreted as partisan pieces, and anything encouraging more nuanced discussion is very welcome.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@Rain-King Welcome to the internet, to quote Bo Burnham! :)

[@NachtKaiser666]

I agree that ending GoT in a satisfying way was kind of impossible without GRRM's careful writing. Taking liberties with the adaptation is nothing new or controversial, but without a specific ending in mind, it can bite you in the ass at a later time. To me, the disparity started to show when they started to build too much around the L+R=J to the point where they felt it necessary to make Jon Snow a legitimate Targaryen heir while it serves no purpose in the series (unlike the books where another possible male heir might still be alive). The Westeros society is shown to be patriarchal and it's likely Jon, as a bastard, would still come favorite even if he had no desire for it, and marrying his aunt (a common Targaryen practice) would've likely solved the dispute. Anyway, I could rant for hours. I think the later seasons were handled poorly, it felt like D&D were ready to move on and just pushed through as fast as they could, giving us a really disappointing ending and shaky later seasons.

[@anna-flora999]

What writing?

[@azargX]

This was ultimately the issue with the last few seasons was that there were no more books and they were on a clock with the actors so they threw something together but they didn't know how to end it. The way the night king was handled, the way that Danny's army just respawned after the battle despite being basically annihilated, the general handling of Danny and her sharp turn unearned turn into genocide... The laundry list of issues. It all points to them simply being unable to understand or write the characters in a coherent and consistent fashion. Inexcusable really as they knew this was happening and had years to plan...

[@VICTORZITOSS]

Oh, mighty algorithm, help this video Something something yadda yadda

[@Darren_Mooney]

Hey! Hey!

[@wilmerholmqvist8705]

I havn't been intressted in movies or the talk about them. In the frame has changed that :)

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad to have encouraged you!

[@gavinthomas87]

Tyrion and Ser Jorah edit... *chef's kiss*

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep, thought that was fun!

[@RidireOiche]

So its an expansion DLC for game of thrones?

[@Endrance88]

I kind of liked the idea of Bran becoming king.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

I am baffled at the number of people furiously blaming the failure of the show's ending on not following the books, considering the 'ending' that would have happend with slavish adherence would be just cutting off somewhere in Season 5 and never coming back, instead of whatever magical christmasland ending you can imagine from someone who frankly seems to have lost all interest in the series years before any of the TV show even happened.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. It’s really fascinating. I do wonder if there are some of them that *honestly* don’t know that the book series still hasn’t ended, and are just going along with the loud internet noises.

[@theescapist]

Also the number of people just responding to the title without actually watching the video to see the reasons given.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@theescapist Yep. And a number of replies that are very, “I would have kidnapped the families of everybody working on the production to force them to make three more seasons.”

[@4203105]

Just cutting it off somewhere in season 5 would have been a massive improvement over what we got. So immense an improvement it is nearly unfathomable.

[@4203105]

@@theescapist or your reason given is shit and so people just ignore it.

[@murphy7801]

Couldn't disagree more. Maybe If hadn't kicked George out and rushed ending it would been fine. Hbo even was willing to give 2 full seasons not cut down mess.

[@murphy7801]

Writing completely changed after season 4

[@4203105]

@@murphy7801 that's what happens when you bully your best writer out of the writers room, I suppose.

[@chunderjack]

The night king wins the battle of the long night, killing some of the characters protected by plot armour. The survivors (Danerys, John Snow and a few others) flee south to Kings Landing. They are forced to team up with Cerci et al, and the final battle is good triumphing over evil, maybe with some Cerci backstabbing shenanigans. Jamie kills the night king, thus fulfilling his destiny as the King Slayer, but in a good way. There you go, came up with that in 2 minutes and it's better than the absolute trash that they served up.

[@anna-flora999]

Now try to tell that story in the time they did theirs, and it's probably going to be just as bad.

[@88Opportunist]

I don't see how any of that links back to the title of this vid. It was always possible to end The Game of Thrones, everyone who has read up to The House of Undying has some idea of how the story ends. Namely John Snow is a Targaryen and the hero of the story and the future king. Daenerys was always an extra, at worst a stepping stone on the path to the throne, at best his future wife regardless of the familial implications because that's what Targaryens do and it would return the pure bloodline to the throne providing the fire that was needed to stand against the ice. The end. Very simple. But the show got too up it's own butt about what people liked about it being a show, the sex, the intrigue, the backstabbing, certain actors, and the subverting of expectations and forced the actual saga into the background to facilitate that. John Snow could never be king because that's the expected end, after the awful way they dismissed the Whitewalkers, to once again subvert expectations rather than the awesome dragon fight everyone expected, they needed a cool scene with dragons so since all the bad guys were gone Deanerys needed to nuke King's Landing since that's all that was left worthy of an action scene and it would give them a reason to write John Snow out of his position as rightful heir. Nothing that happened once the show passed John Snow's attempted assassination was ever in service of the story, but always in service of it being "good" television. Every single thing was manipulated to that effect. So they might have written themselves into a story that was impossible to finish but that was their own doing, just like countless TV shows that came before, like pretty much everything CW ever.

[@FranciscoAreasGuimaraes]

Loved the analysis and the "architect vs gardener" image

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[@dribrom]

Only those that never read the Song of Fire and Ice would say that it was impossible to end Game of Thrones. It was not if they had stuck to the source material. They just fucked it up by thinking they could write better then J.R.R Martin himself.

[@Egurius3]

But the problem is that the showrunners did run out of the source material. There were no books to adapt from after A Dance With Dragons. You can't adapt an ending from a book series that isn't finished.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Oh, how was the book ending? Satisfying, I hope? I haven’t been able to find a copy of the last two books. I guess they sold out too fast.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Go back in your dimension portal.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@UnreasonableOpinions “Only those who have not travelled the infinite multiverse would say this. There’s a universe where the air is sulphur dioxide, but the ending of the book series was deemed perfectly serviceable.”

[@Egurius3]

@@Darren_Mooney There is no book ending yet. Like I said, the book series isn't finished. The latest book came out in 2011, and Martin has been writing the sixth book "The Winds of Winter" ever since. And after that would come the seventh and final book "A Dream of Spring". So basically we're two books away from an ending.

[@lugaliguori]

i thought fire & blood was supposed to be a 2 book series, that has been my sole reason for not getting into house of the dragon yet, was i wrong?

[@timmmm4195]

Yeah, but both parts are targaryen history books covering different periods of time, so they're pretty separate and the show has a lot of years to cover in just first book

[@Darren_Mooney]

The events of the show - as currently mapped out - are contained entirely in the edition published. (Who knows, though? They could turn it into an anthology series or something.)

[@TheElizondo88]

Fire & Blood is indeed a 2 book series covering the entire Targaryen Dynasty, but they cover different times/stories. Book one covers about 150 years (From Aegon I to Aegon III), while House of the Dragon is focusing only on events depicted in the second half of the first book, and two novellas - The Princess and the Queen, and the Rogue Prince - which were published in 2013 and 2014. The story here is complete. Also, GRRM is back in the writer's room for this series.

[@lugaliguori]

@@Darren_Mooney thanks for the i reply might as well give it a shot then

[@lugaliguori]

@@timmmm4195 oh ok i'll give it a shot

[@Mockthenerd]

I get sick of people stating that the ending would have always been disappointing regardless. We've ended great stories for thousands of years, no problem. Why suddenly in the 21st century is it too hard?

[@anna-flora999]

Hype, for one. Disappointing doesn't necessarily mean bad. For example, valve will never be able to release a half life 3 that's not disappointing. Because the moment it's announced, the hype would catapult expectations so high that nothing can meet them

[@AbaddonOnGanja]

Wow very brave of the author of this video to post an opinion that 99% of people disagree with. Don't make excuses for D&D, they threw away Game of Thrones to go and do their Star Wars thing. They ruined the show to go do something else. And then they didn't get the Star Wars thing because they killed this show. Last two seasons of GoT and especially the last one are UNIVERSALLY considered the worst ending to any TV show series ever. This is why everyone forgot about GoT, pretty much no one rewatches it and I doubt that many new people are starting to watch it: they're all aware that the ending is horrible, inexcusably so. And when they learn WHY the ending is so bad, it gets even worse. Last 2 seasons were completely rushed and due to that quality completely fell, making a proper ending wasn't impossible if the right amount of time was spent on it: for example characters not travelling across the continent in minutes when in previous seasons they took multiple episodes. Winter coming for 6 seasons and then ending in an episode or a couple. Timeline of events was completely destroyed. Go watch a video by moistCritikal when he talks about worst endings in media ever and as expected GoT is the first on the list as for mostly any other person who saw it.

[@AgentQV]

They did not end GoT to do Star Wars, that’s a myth, the deal happened during the filming for season 8 (with a completed script). You can hate the last seasons but they were always Benioff and Weiss’s plan.

[@PopCounterCultureEd]

No... No it was totally possible to end GOT well. Good writing isn't a God damn miracle it's just work, the writers didn't wanna do the work because they had star wars and Netflix deals pending once the show was over. The show did a lot of work to si plify the plot so the final season would just need to pay off like three story arcs. The Expanse had a similar situation but they made their shorter final season because the writers did the work. If Breaking Bad, a sow tat was just made up as it went along can have a perfect ending there is no reason an adaptation can't do te same, no need to make excuses for lazy writers.

[@TheRavenking7]

This is just so wrong on so many levels. D & D were at the end of the day hacks who when they had completed books and the authors assistance could good to excellent television when they left this easy mode and had to actully start being creative and intelligent they failed. Please Tyrion descent form the smartest man in the room when George was writing him to the incompetent bumbler we got In the last three seasons. See Sansa who everyone kept insisting was the smartest who behaved like a petulant envious fool around Dany when she came to save their lives from the ice demons. Please see the battle where no one could see anything please see the stupid plot point of Dnay forgot about the iron fleet and the fact you can shoot down a dragon with one ballista in one epiSpode and then miss with a thousand in the next. D & D we’re arrogant stupid and unimaginative. They made bad decisions and bungled the ending of their series because they in addition to the above short comings they wanted to finish the show personally instead of handing it over to those who actually wanted to do it properly.

[@NieceCamilaYTManager]

Ending is the starting point Valentine's day 14/3/2024

[@stpirate89]

No side bar 🙀

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, Omar had a lot on his plate this week, so we had to cut both for time. But I think the end result is pretty good.

[@foxhound9780]

Nah I'm love the books but I'm not so snobish that I think Martin is the one only who could have ended it well t hell some times adaptation can be stronger in a area that source was weaker . Different Isnt the same as bad and I really think I've they handled off to New show runners it could have ended it in a satisfying way.

[@m0nk3yl0v3r]

No, it wasnt. They were offered 2 more series of 10 episodes each. Plenty of time for it all to happen as it did, but with justification and development. They just wanted to fuck off and do Star Wars.

[@AgentQV]

That is not what happened, seasons 7 and 8 was always Benioff and Weiss’s plan (they always intended to end at 7 seasons). The Star Wars deal happened half way through filming season 8 (with a complete script). But I definitely blame them for thinking they could end it in thirteen episodes (and how insane that was).

[@TheCreepypro]

hopefully they get the ending right this time

[@Oozium]

Are you being serious 🤣🤣🤣 ofcourse it was possible to end the series. HBO wanted more seasons & offered them all the time & money to continue. George RR Martin wanted 10+ seasons but got turned down even though it was HIS story. It came down to greed & wanting to end this as quick as possible to make more money & they have suffered the price but destroying there careers/names (although I do not know if anyone has picked them up since) & anyone picking them up is risking a failure from the start due to what happened 😤😤😤

[@anna-flora999]

If Martin wanted more seasons, maybe she should have actually written the necessary books to adapt from.

[@GallowglassVT]

I will always say this: people can talk about how the series ended up overtaking the books narrative-wise,but the fact is that there's enough narrative material in both the books and lore to carryon the show for ten or even twelve seasons, what with Young Griff, the ACTUAL Dorne plot, the ACTUAL Euron Greyjoy plot etc. The ending was ultimately decided in season five when it was made clear the showrunners were more interested in getting to the end than actually telling the story.

[@anna-flora999]

Martin told them the ending they were supposed to work towards.

[@kingnro1]

Who can blame them? Being responsible for the biggest TV production in history (?) must be stresful indeed.

[@JA-lr5ix]

GRRM isn’t a genuis he’s a creative, and they 1. Hate deadlines and 2. Need deadlines I think the backlash from the show really scared him into not finishing the winds of winter, and if he can move the goal post for publishing whenever he wants to whatever he wants, then whats it matter? He should have been given a deadline by his publisher. as for the show, I think that the writers weren’t able to understand the nuance that GRRM brought to the world. Creative people need deadlines, but those who run tight schdules need to understand that you can’t just take a skeleton and call it a complete story.

[@exoblivione6086]

You could’ve easily ended it. 10 seasons with a slow wind down starting in season 7

[@timy9197]

Maybe not easily but 10 seasons would’ve been better than rushing it.

[@longling194]

Amazing video. I agree.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@edgepixel8467]

What are people so upset about this video? Almost 50% downvotes.

[@theescapist]

They just read the title and instantly reacted haha. All good and expected. Same thing on anything else that has been deemed bad like Rings of Power, some of the Marvel shows etc. They just want to hear their opinions affirmed and nothing else that analyzes it.

[@alexwilliamfisher]

I agree with this. I've also heard writing styles described as prancers and plotters. There's a reason George RR Martin hasn't finished another book in the series for over 10 years.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. And it’s not like he has writer’s block! He’s gone off and written *other things.*

[@Writebrain82]

I know it's not the same kind of show, but I like Darren way better than MovieBob. Whereas Moviebob felt like he was a know-it-all preaching about things to people, Darren seems like a more relatable guy and I'm glad that he didn't feel the need to hate on GOT. It's become a cliche to say how bad the series was because of the last few seasons. But, he breaks it down in a way that is logical and shows why House of the Dragon will be much different. I've been saying similar things since this series started!

[@poub06]

The books series was created to be unadaptable and ended up being unfinishable, even in books. The fact that they managed to end it on their own is a miracle in itself. Especially considering the absolutely crazy work that was happening behind-the-scene. People keep saying that they should've done more episodes and more seasons, but nobody in production wanted to. Every cast members and crew talked about how difficult it was to produce "only" those 13 episodes for the last two seasons. Just like for the books, the show became too big and it had to end. They always planned the story to be told in 70 hours and that's what they did. They knew where they were going and they ended where they planned to. (Yes, your Star Wars narrative is BS guys) I think a lot of people don't realize that they were meant to not like the ending. If you're angry because Jon didn't kill the Night King, then you were meant to dislike the ending. If you're angry because you didn't see Daenerys burning down King's Landing coming, then you were meant to dislike the ending. If you're angry becasue Jaime died in Cersei's arms, then you were meant to dislike the ending. It has nothing to do with the writers, it's the plot points you didn't like. Daenerys wasn't supposed to have a two seasons long descent into madness where she goes from hero to vilain infront of everyone's eyes. That's not what this story is all about. Jaime wasn't supposed to have a regular redemption arc where he ends the story as this chivalrous and perfect knight. That's not what this story is all about. Jon wasn't supposed to be the chosen hero who saved the world before taking the Iron Throne because he is the secret prince. That's not what this story is all about. Yes, it would've helped if S8 had 1-2 more episodes to slow the pace between Ep3 and Ep5, but if you needed 2-3 more seasons to accept the ending, then you misunderstood it. And yes, I know, Georges said that the show could've gone to 13 seasons. He said that after he decided to step down from the show to focus on writing a book that still isn't out yet. Anyone with an once of rationality should be able to see how this comment makes no sense. So, I agree. Ending Game of Thrones was always impossible. This story was too big, too ambitious, and too beloved by millions of fans all around the world. Nobody wanted it to end. Especially not in the anticlimactic way that it was meant to end. People started going wild with their theories and they totally forgot what this story was all about. Yes, the show took some shortcuts, because as it's said in the video, they HAD to advance the story every year. They couldn't just wait 10 years until they found an idea. It was a bumpy road to the ending, but it was an ending that made perfect sense. And I'll die on that hill.

[@XxDyneXxFreeEnergyx]

In terms of quality I heard the series was finished after 3

[@randomer5555]

You heard? You didn't actually watch the show?

[@Maesterful]

It really wasn't. They just couldn't care less and rushed it to try and do star wars. See how well that worked out for EVERYONE INVOLVED!

[@menpower1]

Maybe that is why George RR Martin is refusing to end his series LUL

[@Darren_Mooney]

Well, not refuse. I honestly think he is *unable* to end it. Even without the constraints of television production pressing down on him.

[@4203105]

@@Darren_Mooney I think he was just depressed about the whole thing for a long time and couldn't bring himself to write for it. Dumb and dumber took away his baby and ruined it. How would you feel. If it's true what he's writing on his blog, he seems to have found some new interest in the world with house of the dragon and is finally wiring again.

[@randomer5555]

I really liked the ending of Game of Thrones. The showrunners had a difficult task of wrapping up the story without George Martin and I think they did a good job with it.

[@Shadowquacker]

Anyone who thought GoT would have a satisfying (let alone happy) ending simply cannot have been paying attention.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. Although you can read a few suggestions in these comments and feel relieved that whatever problems the ending had, it was absolutely not the worst of all possible endings.

[@TheElizondo88]

It wasn't impossible in the slightest, had they done 10 full seasons (rather than 6 seasons and 2 half seasons) there would have been enough time to build up: Daenery's madness/insecurities, Sansa's political growth, Euron's potential as a credible threat, Bran/Bloodraven's powers and goals (having Bloodraven's avatar on the throne is not a bad ending, but it is not a happy ending as was portrayed), etc.

[@sithman1]

So glad I never got into Game of Thrones, boring ass political drama in a medieval world with magic, no thanks. Most people I know only got into it for 1) The gory violence & 2) The sex.

[@gleipnirrr]

are you and your friends very simple people?

[@sithman1]

@@gleipnirrr what?

[@Darren_Mooney]

That's a shame. There's a lot to appreciate, even just in terms of production.

[@sithman1]

@@Darren_Mooney what's a shame?

[@gleipnirrr]

@@sithman1 i'll take that as a yes

[@bleedingpepper]

The criticism of Danaerys "going nuts" was always on the cards. I'm surprised that people were surprised by it. Her bloodline for one thing; but more significantly her growing lust for power. When she met Jon Snow she was obsessed with this idea of making him bow to her, and that in itself was a massive red flag. It may not be a happy ending, but ultimate the theme of GOT is that power corrupts.

[@gleipnirrr]

and again, because apparently this hasn't been discussed over and over and over, the problem was that it was rushed on tv so it looked disconnected.

[@bleedingpepper]

@@gleipnirrr I wasn't talking about the criticisms about the last season being rushed and disconnected though. I was talking about the criticisms around Danaerys' "going nuts".

[@gleipnirrr]

@@bleedingpepper yes, and that's what my answer is addressing