Endless Winter - Board Game Review - The Kitchen Sink of Mechanics

[@JackCaufman]

I can say with confidence that the production in this is top!

[@dougmahnke7538]

First of all, thank you for reviewing the retail version. I almost always see reviews by content creators of the Kickstarter version of a game which never makes sense to me. I recently sold my Kickstarter version of this game. I found it a bit fiddly and between the setup and gameplay, I found it overly long for the experience it provides. If you haven't already tried it, I recommend Resurgence which also recently fulfilled by Stan Kordonsky. I find it a much tighter and streamlined experience, and a better game.

[@flipz101]

Yes I have just got Resurgence and Endless Winter and I second this, Resurgence is a much neater streamlined game, and provides a much nicer balance between setup/play time versus experience enjoyment than endless winter does.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's one I'll try but won't likely see it for a while.

[@VanessaG1229]

Finally got the chance to play. I wasn't totally blown away by it. Then again, it was my first play, and there's a lot to wrap your head around. I'd like to give it another play.

[@hairygnome1787]

Well done reviewing the retail version. Is frustrating when all reviews are of a game are the kickstarter version which you can no longer purchase and you are left none the wiser as to component quality etc of the retail version which is actually available and you might want to buy. Looks like a good game. Love the box art!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yeah I'm always adamant to review what others can buy and exclude expensive extras.

[@rogerburrows3400]

Thanks muchly for the review! From my watches of playthroughs, the megaliths did seem like the kitchen sink for this game. "In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away ..."

[@manuelkooijman5757]

Luke, you need to do a review of the Ancestors expansion for this. It might become an essential expansion. It adds cards to the culture deck, an alternative deck for tribe members and alternative chief cards. The biggest change though is the alternative animal deck. They don’t give you set collection bonuses at game’s end but give you bonuses during each eclipse phase. The more you have from a set, the bigger the bonus. If you have all four from a set, you get one food, one tool and three points. So the tactic of waiting to turn 4 to hunt is gone. It is now worthwhile hunting from turn 1. This opens up the game massively. The expert variants for the solo, make the nomad a better opponent as well.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's always worthwhile hunting early regardless. Banking on getting a full set in turn 4 is foolhardy. And yeah I agree Ancestors is good, though essential hard to say. But honestly it's stupid that it's even an expansion, it should have been in the base game to begin with.

[@JohnClem56]

Agree that I'd like there to be a little more tension / tighter play and more differentiation based on selected strategy (i.e. require a greater amount of specialization and not be able to end the game having maxed mostly everything). One clarification though regarding the megaliths, you do not have to put the grey stones on the grey spots to start. However, you can never put a colored stone on the grey spots. Not a huge change but it allows you to place an early megalith (grey) to get a specific bonus you need to power up your early actions. Does mean that it takes you longer to get to your colored megaliths though so there is a trade off.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Interesting to know, but even so, why not make them all coloured and just go one by one?

[@JohnClem56]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I don't know but likely to provide points balance and competition for placing second second layer stones so that there are mostly cases where there are either grey stones or other player stones or both on the lower level. Just guessing though.

[@Katoh64]

Great review for Dune: Ruins of Nova!

[@checkrazor76]

I second the comment about you reviewing the retail version. Many thanks. Also I never really included set up and teach as part of the game time that’s on the box. Do you normally expect that time to be everything instead of just game play time ?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I feel that publishers should incorporate that in yes. I don't expect it per say as I know they conveniently leave it out to be misleading and bring the timer down to appeal to consumers more. But I will always comment on game length and setup and factor it in as it's not bonus time of the day we get for it.

[@mkietzmann]

Thanks a lot. Again. I was kind of looking for another medium euro, but I guess I'll just wait for the second Arnak expansion. That's the game my friends want to play anyway.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Can't fault that, the next expansion is an auto-buy!

[@seth7447]

We found the base dry with limited actions. We added the expansions with the animals you can use during play and the cave painting adds a whole new action place. We will keep this and play with those expansions to liven up the play. We have not tried the river and rafts yet.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

The Ancestors are a must yes, just for more variety. But Cave Paintings I feel is jumping the shark a bit, plus its another entire section to teach on top.

[@seth7447]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Very true. The heavy euro in is wanted more actions spaces. When you form a part of the cave drawing you get goodies and that is a feel good. There are different animals to choose from. I read through the river and rafts expansion and it appears like more rules overhead and scoring to track. I am going to check out some of his other games.

[@Punko1969]

​@@seth7447 Cave Paintings seemed like a gimmick to me until I watched a vid by someone who thought it was the best of the expansions. I hope to try it soon. It's odd that this game almost needs all of the expansions to differentiate play styles because you are able to get so much done by the end without them. It makes it a beast, but I like that it's a rare case where the expansions add to the foundation game in a way that improves it, because it seemed overstuffed even before adding them.

[@flipz101]

A few of us are finding the Rivers and Rafts makes the game feel easier? As it lets you traverse around the map far quicker,

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

@@flipz101 Doesn't really need to be any easier!

[@JonoNZBoardGamer]

I have only played this once solo and once 2 player and overall I really really liked the deckbuilding worker placement core of the game. I love that you get to really utilise the cards you buy and like you said, build your engine up really quickly. It is fun, although I completely agree that by the end you it is too easy to get everything done. I hope that some of the expansion content will shake up the game to make it tighter or at least not be able to do 95% of the things you could do... If not I might have to houserule some of the bonuses out just to make the resource engine a bit tighter

[@GrahamS_Games]

Thanks for another great review. On watching play throughs (solo in particular), my initial concern was that it looked too easy to do everything. Literally everything. Top of all tracks, all huts out, all stones gathered, all megaliths out etc. I appreciate you highlighting this, as I think it is being overlooked by other reviews. I think I’ll stick with Arnak.

[@jamescartwright1150]

Excellent video as always Luke. I have to disagree with you about turn 4 and being able to do everything. We found that although you can do a lot by the last round we were still constrained by not having enough food or tools to be able to feel like every action was possible and easy.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Tools are the only constraint but chances are you will have max tools before you start the round. But then you will have a ton of food to use on labour or other culture cards.

[@TheLuminousCleric]

Round 4

[@retrofraction]

I actually would have to agree a bunch. I think that there is too many things tied to the simple actions that easily turn a turn from 1 actions to 8 different actions occurring form 1 action. It also does not help that each worker placement area has three actions based on the area on the main board and the rest area is on the player boards.

[@marcinczyzewski5021]

I am after one 3 players game without any expansions, with only one module glaciers and I am quiet courios, suprised about feelings that you can max everything in this game. Maybe it's becacuse it was our first game, but from first impression I don't see that, maxing everything is possible without some exploits, breaking mechanics. Maybe Endless Winter is easy to do this but for now I can't see how it could possible. I agree EW is not so easy to explain, teach but since there is much less orders than in many other worker placement games and even with a few more mini games it's easy to understand it once you play game and catch a flow of game which is very nice. The problem is that all mechanisms, mini games are not enough deep so, they are not so exciting at all. Maybe map , where area control aspect is present is best mini game in EW. But it's still better than deep, complicated minigames, mechanisms whose would kill joy and fun in Endless Winter. After one play I found that EW is not so heavy game, rather quiet easy to play after one play, maybe more expansions would change it a little bit. Rules are very clarified, rulebook is very good , and there are no micro rules which I hate. Overall Endelss Winter is much more interesting and better game especially in quality, look of components than prised here by fanboys Lost Ruins of Arnak , very solitaire, and boring game without almost any interaction. But it's my opinion. In every occassion I would play EW over LRoA. In Endless Winter interaction is much more present than in LRoA but still Dune:Imperium is best in this aspect. Anyway thank You for review and I think this is good review :). Especially that even cons You like EW , but still don't like Dune:Imperium hehe ;).

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I wouldn't say EW has a ton of player interaction honestly if you're comparing to LROA - they are about on par to be honest in that regard. The rulebook may be good, but there's a bunch of stuff going on, more than I would say a midweight game would entail. Throw in any expansion and it's most certainly not midweight.

[@Schlagathor78]

This dune and arnak w expansion are all 10/10 for me. You can tell I really like the genre haha

[@EddieRyfari]

I own arnak and dune (both with expansions) I immensely love both, although I see differences enough. so according to you, I should add this to my collection?

[@Schlagathor78]

@@EddieRyfari Yeah if you love worker placement/deck builder then I would say so. For reference I got the all in for EW, so I am having fun exploring all of the modules and expansions. So your mileage might vary if you by just base game and play it to ad nauseum.

[@drewcoleman7263]

I haven’t got this to the table yet, looking forward to playing it. Would just house ruling to 3 rounds instead of 4 fix the two issues of length and engine building you mentioned? Watched a few of your review videos now and you always bring up solid critiques which other reviewers don’t mention. Subscribed and look forward to more reviews!

[@CarlosRodriguez-ez3ls]

Great review Luke! Echos of Yokohama with that snowball effect? Definitely a pretty looking game. Thx!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Now that you mention it, Yokohama had a similar feel yes. I didn't like the rest of the game up to that point for the 3 hour time limit but yes, you get to a point where you've achieved everything you set out to do.

[@modoaviaobg]

Great review. It's going to be launched here in Brazil soon and I was thinking if it worths the hype. Based on your review I'll grab Ark Nova, because I already got Arnak and didin't play it yet.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Definitely Ark Nova over this.

[@CandyOnAChopstick]

How does this compare to Terraforming Mars’ final rounds? In TM you can milk your engine quite a bit which I like, but perhaps it’s because the paths to victory are not as distinct anyway? Interested to hear your thoughts. I fear this could be the nail in the coffin but there’s a fine line it’s straddling without further information.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

TM feels a little more tighter by comparison in the endgame.

[@georgioschalikias4883]

Thank you Luke ! If I understood well, different initial strategies lead to the same abundancy of resources at later rounds ?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

You'll have some differences in which resource is easier for you to acquire (if you grab a ton of animals, food is in abundance for example) - but by the end of the game you can achieve so much.

[@jacobjslee]

I watched the whole video, but might have missed this question: do you anticipate the expansions will fix the problems you encountered? Especially your engine being too strong in the 4th round? And should the game after the 3rd round? Sounds like it.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I've played most of the expansions, they don't remove that Round 4 issue, just give you additional options and variations on play.

[@jacobjslee]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I think I'd end it after the 3rd if I notice the same problem.

[@thereal4579]

i agree wth all of your points, played it 2 times, and was abled to pretty much do everything in the game, it didnt feel tight enough for my liking.

[@sleepykid19]

I love the art and components, and I do find this game fun. I didn't have an issue with the strong end game; I find it actually fun to have so much escalation. My biggest concerns are the setup, teach, and gamelength. It will be too much for my more casual gamer friends, and I feel like other games could be more worthwhile for the investment.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

There's escalation and then there's "do what you please, it's all the same".

[@DumahAtreides]

Agree with you on most opinions you had on here - though we come down a bit harder against it. My wife and I played two games, base then with Ancestors using the retail versions and it's already on the sell pile. One of the largest complaints being that lack of things to do by the end and few standout ways to get higher points - so that person who got the better sacred stone wins. We play and love Dune Imperium and Arnak as well as more complex games like Weather Machine, but this one was a disappointment. The card building is really good, but if what you do with that card play losses steam for the last 1/3rd then it all feels like a whiff. In the true medium weight territory two recent games I'd rather play: Lacrimosa (we have enjoyed it more, and I have seen a travel win due to the composer x2) and Resurgence.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Even with the composer, you would have still had to do one of the other strategy routes to score the bulk of the points. Not to mention you had to have a specific composer in play out of four AND grab the most expensive piece.

[@DumahAtreides]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Sure, but the travel let him do actions in the other areas as well. I guess to say strategy in that game really just means what is the focus for deck building actions with nothing being exclusive. In any case, the main comparison was saying we've enjoyed our games of Lacrimosa while we did not Endless Winter.

[@shovahkais7671]

The game looks good and has many interesting parts in it that i usually like in boardgmes, yet it does not pull me in to buy it. I would gladly play it with anybody proposing, but the rainbow of mechanics does not help to make them stand out. Same issue I have with Fall of the mountain King for example. In this comparison Dune and Arnak win hands down, solid worker placement with good complementary deck building, other things are there but with clear minor roles.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I do worry that Fall of the Mountain King will not amaze me and pale to the Hall one.

[@ryangallagher7183]

I agree with you that it feels way too easy to do everything in the game, but I still enjoy it enough to keep it. I think it would be a much better game if they had made it tighter. Personally I like the megaliths. I rate it a 7/10 due to it feeling the same every game, even when you mix and match different expansions and modules.

[@nirszi]

Great review and kudos for reviewing the retail version! This game has all the mechanisms and items that I'm supposed to like in a euro game but there is nothing about it that excites me so it's a pass for me. I'll play it if I have an opportunity though.

[@spitfire4209]

If he hates all the extra game mechanics this much imagine his reaction if Cave Paintings had been made part of the base game. Dry erase marker connect the dots puzzle.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Oh trust me that expansion is jumping the shark big time 😜

[@fantasiaboardgames808]

Thank you for your video. :)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

You're welcome! If you want the Endorsement insignia, drop me a line.

[@fantasiaboardgames808]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Sure thank you.

[@garylangford6755]

Completely agree with the negatives. Though they knock the game down to a 5 for me. A 30 minute + rule teach for such a light game is not OKAY. I also find the interaction way too light

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Haven't quite hit 30 min just to teach and this isn't a game I'd call "light".

[@monomundo]

Seems like having a snowy theme bumps up your ratings - we know how much you hate heat ;)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Ha ha, it is pretty nippy here though, heating is on

[@egd277]

Endless winter VS Prehistory?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Not played Prehistory I'm afraid.

[@npckse8508]

I cannot say that I disagree with you at all here. I am eager to try out the expansions, which seem to add to, without taking away from the experience.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Ancestors is a must, but the others add a reasonable amount of extra complexity.

[@marimig918]

I'll watch this tomorrow, but so far my experience with this product is terrible. Not only I received this game today, which is nearly 2 months after retail release, but also I didn't receive all components that I've paid for. I hope that at least the game will deliver some good time spent with my friends, but the "Kickstarter experience", is so far the worst, with Vindication's late pledge pricing (lower price than campaign backer's) being 2nd if not ex aequo.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's not the best from a KS standpoint.

[@carmenredmann6396]

Are you going to keep it?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I'm going to hang on to the KS version yes.

[@KristoVaher]

Biggest drop from hype to disappointment for me!

[@davemartin4197]

I sold my pledge - there are better games to play

[@jacobramirez5974]

I like long games. And as for set up and take down, my wife does all that so that's not a negative for me. And that Feld-like side puzzle looks kinda fun to me. So with your 8, this game gets a green light to go ahead and pull the trigger! Cha-Ching🏧💵

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I don't have the luxury of a minion to set up my games! :P

[@bonescollector5367]

Thank you for that detailed review. Endless Winter is not for us. Sure makes me appreciate Stefan Feld , though. 😊🎲

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

You can just play the Megalith section then and nothing else :P

[@thegamesninja3119]

Mechanics salad!

[@thegamesninja3119]

After running into TEN by the creators of the cardgame Point Salad, the term "Mechanics Salad" popped into my head. I created a BGG Geeklist trying to find other mechanics salad games and someone did list this game on that Geeklist. Forbidden Games just released Faeries and Magical Creatures that fits into this category. It can be argued that Vital Lacerda is increasingly designing mechanics salad games. This will likely grow more as time goes in. Novices design them to be cool and lack design discipline. Experiences designers realize they are designer traps and avoid them. Masters still realize they are traps but end up not caring and make they work. The trap part is that there is lure if wanting to design a game that would appeal to everyone but appeal to no one because making people do what they do not want to do in a game is a big no-no.

[@TheLuminousCleric]

I wonder if the game is one round too long.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Possibly, as I achieve quite a bit by Round 3.

[@OlegKlishinArt]

As a guy who's into beige games, I found this one painfully average. Don't know why all the buzz. Maybe it's the theme or Mico art, but it has the beigest of souls. Like a derivative version of "all things euro 2022". Not a fan of Dune, but yeah... I'd choose Dune.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

That's definitely the closest to beige! 😅

[@revimfadli4666]

Like a Feldian "mix a bunch of mechanics and hope it somehow works"?

[@OlegKlishinArt]

@@revimfadli4666 But Feld does it better! :P

[@Buako111]

Seems that Arnak will stay as my Nr. 1 and go to worker/deck game for a while…

[@WernerFernandoOroxonRamirez]

A couple of Friends and me have it the other way around. This better than arnak as the deck building is. More. Interesting, unlike arnak most. Of the card go to you hand directly and you don't get a new hand very often. We have found That very appealing

[@revimfadli4666]

@@WernerFernandoOroxonRamirez indeed, Arnak's deckbuilding feels more like the usual handbuilding, except you have a facedown pile so it's technically a deckbuilder

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

In Arnak I will see cards more than once, there is way more methods to draw cards and trash cards in your deck. In Dune, you get so few means to modify your deck so it's just bloating.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@TheBrokenMeeple sounds like Paul got too comfortable with Clank's deckbuilding

[@FalkFlak]

I think this is too much. A game doesn't get better if you just scram ever more stuff into it. At some point it's better to make it a video game because of the accouting. Imho the artwork masks what is just a bloated and slow game. For players who are interested in the theme and don't like the artwork (I like it though)': EW is not the first game who did this kind of minigame-puzzle in the palaeolithic era. I recommend you try *Prehistory* at some point.

[@lordoftheflings]

This game looks like a nightmare to setup and a nightmare to teach and thus probably would almost never get to the table. no thanks

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Fair enough!