ENDORPHIN ELITE vs. WAVE REBELLION PRO: super shoe showdown!

ENDORPHIN ELITE vs. WAVE REBELLION PRO: super shoe showdown!
Find my individual review of the ‪@MizunoBrand‬ Wave Rebellion Pro here: • MIZUNO WAVE REBELLION ...
and my review of the ‪@saucony‬ Endorphin Elite here: • ENDORPHIN ELITE vs. WA...
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[@dpeddler123]

Great Video Matt, I recently got my 5k pb in the Elites, 18.49 beating my previous 19.14 in the Puma Fast-R, I'm 55 so think that 5k pb may stay with me for life! I'm doing Milton Keynes marathon on Monday (bank holiday in UK) and hope to beat my current pb of 3.30 - I'll be wearing the Elites (as I will for every race from now on 😁) so the Fast-R is religated to a training shoe now. My last thought is that if you only ever brought Saucony's you would not go fr wrong! Looking forward to the Kinvara Pro for long training runs 👍

[@its_Matt_B_]

Huge congrats on your recent 5k PB! That's quite a jump! How do the Fast-R feel compared with the Elite? Good luck at Milton Keynes! Your 5k speed suggests 3:30 (potentially) shouldn't be a problem! LMK how it goes!

[@dpeddler123]

@its_Matt_B_ The Fast-R's are just that little bit heavier, but so comfortable! I would say they have a balance of aggression and comfort, as well as squish & pop. The Elites aren't uncomfortable in any way, but feel like they are made for all out aggression - no squish, all pop! Thanks Matt, well done at Boston, lived that recap vid 👍

[@dpeddler123]

*loved

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@dpeddler123 Your description of the Elites being "no squish, all pop" is so spot on! I love it!

[@79reynevan]

Great review!!!

[@its_Matt_B_]

Cheers, Samson! 👊🏽

[@the187alx]

what a great comparison video! I just bought the Rebellion Pro, I will compare it to the mental Prime X Strung

[@its_Matt_B_]

Cheers for watching! I didn’t get to run in the original Pirime X Strung but love the Prime X2 Strung!

[@jimoconnor8597]

Just getting to this video and I am deciding which one of these I am going to go for. I'm not sure I am fast enough for either but especially the Elite...

[@its_Matt_B_]

The Elite will work well for a lot of people. The WRP works better for faster forefoot landing peeps.

[@Chungdol]

I do have the Wave Rebellion Pro and what I have to add is also: Durability and idioticy. For a super shoe the Mizuno is really really durable, mine has around 200km in (I remember tha alpha fly was at its limit on the milage showing clear wear and maybe placebo but I had the feelings they didnt feel as bouncy) while the Mizuno doesnt even show any sights of wear. I'm not expecting a 1000km shoe, but I do have hopes that it brings me easily through at least 4-5 Marathons + long distance workouts for those. Sadly its a littlebit narrow for my feet, but I do have kinda strong splayfoot+valgus. idioticy: the problem with carbon plate shoes is, that if you dont hit the plate perfectly your engery will be wasted, its also perfectly seen on amateur athletes who run in the Nike carbon plate shoes = their ankles play circus games, bending in all directions like crazy. Because of the design of the Mizuno you are basically guaranteed to hit the carbon plate perfectly making it a shoe every "idiot" can run in at least semi successful. The Elite I tried only around 10km, it is not as fun as the Mizuno (what has probably the most unique feeling I have had in a shoe) but it's definitely far from being boring or unpleasent. The biggest downside was for me that it is even more narrow than the already narrow Mizuno, killing it for me instantly, sadly since I have a "soft sponsoring" from saucony getting their shoes with huge discounts. Sorry for the late reply but your vid showed up in my recoms :D

[@its_Matt_B_]

Thanks for watching! It's funny you mention the wasted energy if you don't hit the plate right, because I have found this happens the most with the WRP. Not when i'm running fast, because it feels epic at speed, but when i'm running easy! Lucky for me it isn't an easy day shoe, but I struggle on the recoveries when i'm running intervals! I agree the Endo Elite isn't as fun feeling as the WRP. but for me it just works. I think I have fairly narrow feet so I don't notice them being too narrow!

[@Chungdol]

@@its_Matt_B_ Oh yes I didnt think about that, thats very true, if you run slow in WRP I think they feel just arkward. I'm also a midfoot-striker so the shoe was a put on = love shoe.

[@Jay-sd9ye]

Another month or two I'll be trying my first run since breaking my foot. It has been healing well. Sometimes I feel like I can run now. My Dr said give it longer... Can't wait. Nice video. I like those Green ones

[@its_Matt_B_]

I'm with your doctor on giving it a bit longer! I've come back from injury too early (when I felt ok) and ended up being out for even longer that the original suggestion!

[@Jay-sd9ye]

@@its_Matt_B_ yes, I'm just getting antsy. I'm only getting upper body weight lifting in. I want to run. Also It's been beautiful outside(California spring time). Soon hopefully by summer. Can't wait. I enjoy your running videos and reviews while sitting around. 👊

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@Jay-sd9ye You'll be healthy and ready to go in no time! Don't risk missing a summer of running just to get out there a few weeks early!

[@Jay-sd9ye]

@@its_Matt_B_ 👊

[@Jay-sd9ye]

@@its_Matt_B_ maybe do a beginner video by summer for people starting to run. Explaining how to start, how to improve and how many times a week. Even though I wasn't a really a beginner, id still like to watch something like that. I was focused more on muscle vs long runs. My best mile time was 9:25 and longest run was 3.7miles. Idk if you have already made one yet or not. Just a suggestion.

[@largeeddie]

Great info, Matt! My race day choice will be whichever ones color coordinate well with my shorts. I"m limited by the engine, not the tires. Something that I find interesting though is that, with the midsole features and shaped outsoles, it seems like there's another dimension to shoe fit. Besides length, width, and volume, it would be super important to have the balls of your feet (the metatarsal phalangeal joint to be fancy) where the designer expects them to be. I've felt this even with much less impressive shoes, that going a half size smaller for the second pair changed the way it felt to run in them quite a bit. With various foot shapes and proportions, I wonder if different runners reviewing the same shoe model actually experience them differently. Have you ever had the chance to run in two different sizes of the same super shoe? Anyhow, probably way off subject... Thanks for the video. I enjoyed watching.

[@its_Matt_B_]

I haven't run in two pairs of the same shoe because I always wear them around the house for a bit before I take them outside to be sure the fit is as close to ok as I can get. I've sent back quite a few pairs if they're a little to big or small. With that said, it males perfect sense that sizing would affect how the shoe performs. I don't think there are too many people out there that would buy different sizes of the same shoes to see the difference. Perhaps researchers would if they're doing a study, but I fear my channel does not appeal to the running scientific community. I embrace that I'm the Sesame Street of running YT channels! 🤣

[@largeeddie]

@@its_Matt_B_ Cookie Monster and Oscar the Grouch are two figures who heavily influenced my life's course so I'm fine with that too.😆If I remember correctly, Puma had some form of shoe tasting going on at their Boston shakeout run, although I guess not for their super shoes on that day. A situation like that, where testers could run a mile or two in adjacent shoe sizes, could be interesting.

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@largeeddie You're right, Sesame Street is wildly influential, so I should be so lucky if anyone other than me likened the channel to it. I was looking for the Fast-R to test at the Puma shakeout run but they didn't have any. The only shoes available to test was their new ForeverRUN Nitro (and I was wearing my own pair).

[@JDeezle21]

Listen here Matt B. A 5K is a marathon for me right now based on my conditioning. 😂 Recovering from a hip flexor/quad strain.

[@its_Matt_B_]

Ooh! A hip flexor strain is the worst because it feels tight all the time! Getting up from sitting and getting out of the car must SUCK!! If a "5k marathon" is what you've got, I support it! 👊🏽

[@Wings_nut]

Thanks, Matt for the very comprehensive showdown. I wish the Elite drop is 4mm. Nonetheless, I'm still married to the Boston shoes that get me to Boston (New Balance, Saucony, Reebok).

[@its_Matt_B_]

In this case it's 100% fine to never leave Boston for your shoes! The big Boston 3 have you covered for everything you'll ever need in a running shoe.

[@Wings_nut]

@@its_Matt_B_ Cheers Matt

[@nanyapcs]

I’m a fan of Sauconys, I love my saucony endorphin elite, endorphin pro 3, and I have been thinking about the elite version… I was doubting yesterday if I should give the mizuno a go, as I came across a wave rebellion for 100 quid, but from your review and probably my history with sauconys think I will save some more and go for the elite in the end. Thank you

[@its_Matt_B_]

If you’re already a fan of Saucony it makes sense to go with the Elite. They really are a fantastic and fast race day option! 👊🏽

[@bentaylor3730]

I just got the Elites in a women's so that it's more narrow for works better with me.

[@its_Matt_B_]

Oh, perfect! Nice shoe hack!

[@i.p2088]

Did the Stryd 90 minutes Long Run in the Mizuno Wave rebellion Pro. I did exact same run in the the Adios 8 and Boston I before. Big improvement in metrics between the Boston 12 and Adidas adios Pro 3. But today first long run in the Mizuno Wave rebellion Pro. Very surprised how comfortable (heel striker and slow runner) they are. Plus the entire run felt easy which stryd power was showing I am actually at the top right required power. Like my form improved drastically or its just the shoes 🙄🙄🙄. It's very much like the Alphafly V1 but for slow heel striker.. Like in the Adidas Pro 3 my legs feel fresh after the run. I will keep buying the Mizuno Pro for any long distance racing.

[@its_Matt_B_]

Oh wow! This makes me happy! What a great experience you had! As you know, this was not my experience with the WRP! I found them a little cumbersome at slow paces and yet epic when I pick up the pace! The data doesn't lie; the WRP make you a better runner!😃

[@i.p2088]

@@its_Matt_B_ The big surprise is how easy the run felt and how fresh my legs are after the run. In the Boston 12 I hadn't no pains but I was really working hard and felt it afterwards. India to Adidas Pro 3 it was much easier and legs great but it was work.. In a Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro I kept looking at the watch thinking why is the not piping that my powerful is to low only took see many times that I am actually in the the red.. Especially after an hour when it got hot and I was slowing down I felt like my legs are on rails.. No heel and extreme rocker seems to work especially at the point when you are crash landing on you the heel at the end of a long run or Marathon.. My conclusion is that it's very good for Fartlek workout but superb for long runs which I think is what it is made for..

[@i.p2088]

I was going to order the Mizuno Pro in the black / white and noticed it has different eu sizes.. Like Asics or Hoka. So 43 which is my usual size is US 10 and not 9.5 like I always order so in EU I need 42.5 which is US 9.5.. By the time I understand this my size is gone... So I wait.. It was for €175..

[@its_Matt_B_]

Ugh! Why can't we all just use the same standard for foot measurement! It would make buying shoes so much easier!

[@i.p2088]

Got the Wave Rebellion Pro an hour ago in the Kakizome color at last. Went up half a size.. I am 43 in Saucony.. Nike.. New Balance.. But Mizuno in 27.5 cm says 42.5.. But since I have wide feet and some (not you) advice going up half a size I did. They fit amazing. Enough room in the midfoot and toebox.. Do seem a half size long but I think going TTS would crush my toes. I did notice that the tongue keeps bunging up on one side when I put them on.. Of course it's the add on.. They saw the sticker with the size to the side of the tongue.. Why not put it like a sticker.. So I cut this out.. Problem solved. Walking around the house feels super strange. Like having a tennis ball under your arches.. I already did my run in the morning so I will run in them tomorrow morning for the first time.. My question.. I have the Stryd hard Fartlek workout tomorrow.. 10 x 1. 5 minutes at 108% CP.. How suitable is it for sprints? To high? To unstable?

[@its_Matt_B_]

🤣 I laughed at you walking around the house feeling super strange. I remember that feeling well! Yes, the tongue can be a bit tricky to get placed right, especially because they're tight to get on! As far as your sprints, I think they will work well and I don't think they'll feel unstable at speed. I'm more interested to hear about how they feel to you on the warm up/recoveries/cool down.

[@Jay-sd9ye]

Are those black with white stripes or white with black stripes...... Now I'm confused...

[@its_Matt_B_]

Definitely maybe white with black stripes....I think...

[@PiercingArrowz]

Any estimate of when the S-Elite version 2 will drop?

[@its_Matt_B_]

Feb/March 2024 would be my guess.

[@redstonep7607]

Good to see there are more options for marathon days than the alpha/vapor flies. Marathon race shoes should not last too much as generally runners do 2-3 marathon a year at most. The mizuno might be more durable but would you still use the race day shoe of 2023 in year 2028. I don’t think so. 😂 there will be better shoes at that time.

[@its_Matt_B_]

🤣 Good point, but I'm sure there are some peeps out there that would hold onto them! I still have my original 4%s (from 2017) and I would definitely race in them again!

[@brokenfreddy7676]

Only 1 race in the Mizuno Pro..same pace as the alphafly V1 but lower effort to maintain pace..the Mizuno does best landing midsole and roll ahead instead of forefoot landing..sent the Saucony elite back after less than 10 minutes running..my feet do not like Saucony endorphin line at all..something weird about the fit of the entire line..

[@its_Matt_B_]

This is good to hear that the WRP took less effort to maintain your pace. What pace were you running at?

[@brokenfreddy7676]

@@its_Matt_B_ my pace is around 7min/mi in the 65 to 70 age group..the Mizuno Pro rolls very easy if you hit the right spot..

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@brokenfreddy7676 Ahh, you shoudl change your name to Speedy Freddy! You're right about it rolling easy if you hit the right spot. It feels great when used as intended!

[@MarkSmith_Best-Athletics]

I think that I will definitely run some races in the Wave Rebellion Pro this year but when it comes to my A races (trying to lower my Marathon and 10k times) then it could prove very difficult to go with anything other than the Endorphin Elite. The Wave Rebellion Pro is also a fantastic training shoe though (as long as you don't hit any potholes). The great thing about wearing the Wave Rebellion Pro for my own training is that it strengthens some of the weaker areas in my chain - by working hips, glutes, upper legs and perhaps shins, while going easy on my calf muscles. I have other shoes that work my calfs. The brilliance of the Elite is that I haven't really felt it working anything yet, my legs have just felt amazing while running in them and afterwards 💚💚

[@its_Matt_B_]

This is an excellent benefit of the WRPs, Mark! They will quickly identify the areas we need a little strengthening and work that area! They have the potential to make us a fast and well-rounded runner. I'm with you on the Elites and how they just seem to work well without working me over.

[@paddywiggle]

Technically if measured at its highest stack height point, the drop of the Wave Rebellion Pro is 10mm. It measures 44mm at that highest point!

[@its_Matt_B_]

ahh, interesting. It doesn’t feel like a 10mm drop on the run, but that foam compresses a lot when standing!

[@paddywiggle]

@@its_Matt_B_ Maybe 9mm I guess is what I meant. But yea the foam is so soft there it probably rides like a lower drop. But what a shoe feels like is not on a spec sheet!

[@i.p2088]

No road feel because you have a plate between you and the road.. I love harder midsole and extreme front rocker.. I have the Ride 15, Triumph 20, Speed 2 and 3, Endorphin Pro 3.. All fit amazing to me.. So the safe choice is the Endorphin Elite but only in a sale.. I saw it on sale in Asia for €200 🙏

[@its_Matt_B_]

€200 is a good price but I'm sure shipping costs will add a bit to it! Road feel is a funny thing. Do we really have road feel in any shoes or is it a product of a firmer ride? If a plate between your foot and the road was the determining factor in road feel then the Speed and Pro would be out! Also, I interpret the Flame (RS and ST) as having excellent road feel but they both have plates.

[@i.p2088]

@@its_Matt_B_ You are correct.

[@markhill8590]

How do you think the mizuno would handle a 10k race, i know its more focused on the longer distances but would the mizuno handle to 10k ok?

[@its_Matt_B_]

I think it would handle very well. I actually think it would work better for me at the 10k because the faster speed would ensure I’m landing midfoot a little more. When I get tired during the marathon I tend to start heel striking, and the Mizuno doesn’t feel as good (to me) when I heel strike.

[@markhill8590]

@@its_Matt_B_ thank you i have a 10k race in 5 days and I can't decide between these or the original hoka rocket x's

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@markhill8590 Oh, def go with the Rebellion Pro. They’re much faster than the original Rocket X! Good luck!

[@markhill8590]

@@its_Matt_B_ thank you, what would you choose between the mizunos and vaporflys %2? For the 10k

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@markhill8590 I would say it depends on your foot strike. If you tend to heel strike the VF2s may be a little more forgiving. If you strike forefoot, either will work very well.

[@brokenfreddy1262]

I definitely prefer the Mizuno..the Saucony is too hard and the fit is not good..the only I would say about the Mizuno is it doesn't like a high crowned road..like the alphafly it wants to veer off towards the low side..reminds of how a car's tires try to pull you off the road..other than that the upper and midsole work well together and I ran my 10k in it this summer..

[@its_Matt_B_]

Yeah, the Elite is a little harder than we expect from a super shoe, and it has more of a traditional feeling of speed (road feel) rather than the soft spring of the Rebellion Pro. I would also choose the Mizuno for a 10k, but anything longer I would go with the Saucony.

[@trailrunning7773]

For me elite very nice ❤❤❤❤

[@its_Matt_B_]

The Endo Elites are a really solid shoe!💪🏽

[@JDeezle21]

I agreed. I also like the look. They stand out.

[@jeffdover6845]

The wave rebellion pro wrecked my calf

[@its_Matt_B_]

Ugh! How so? Did you race in them? Are you usually a forefoot striker? What did you wear before running in the WRP?

[@jeffdover6845]

@@its_Matt_B_ Midfoot,drop i usually use is around 8 but i did a long run and speed work in them right off the bat,i should have eased into them,i was in therapy for 7 weeks

[@its_Matt_B_]

@@jeffdover6845 Yeah, I can see how doing too much too soon in the WRP has the potential for aches and pains!

[@GazDaa1]

you are losing a hiar

[@its_Matt_B_]

It happens with age.