Engine Noise Diagnosis Part 2- The Answer Revealed!

Continued from Part I where I left it to you to determine the cause of an internal noise based on diagnostics I did.
Part I can be found here:
• Engine Noise Diagnosis...
Also you might be interested in how I rescued the collapsed lifters:
• Disassemble and Recond...
Latest update at time of posting this video- it's been about a month and I just saw the car for an oil change and the car still runs like new.

[@1956Caddy]

Excellent. If your very humble attitude was shared in any other fields of human behavior, humanity would progress a lot ! I am in the process of solving a similar ticking noise issue on a '56 365ci engine. Not much sure valve lifters are to be incriminated, but sure your video is helpful. Diagnosis is certainly the most difficult part of the job. Not only because it's aimed at a practical solution, but because there resides understanding. I surely like my car purring like a kitten. But I like far more knowing why. Thanks a lot.

[@stevensapyak7971]

2.8.16. Whenever I do service on a GM 3100/3400 V6, I use a Lisle 48300 pushrod removal tool. If you don't use the tool, then it's imperative that the cylinders are each on TDC, (valves closed) so the rocker arm bolt has no tension placed on it from the cam lobe. When the rocker arm bolt is either removed or replaced. There are a ton of videos on KZbin with loose rocker arm bolts, due to persons trying to fix their LIM gaskets & head gaskets! The aluminum threads are pulled out due to the tension placed on the rocker arm pivot. (fulcrum effect) 🤔 I always replace the head gaskets & L.I.M. Gaskets. Fel-Pro metal framed ones.

[@byteme285]

Don't put lifters in dry after you recondition them, immerse them in oil and take a pushrod and push the inner part up and down slowly till they are tight, or you can just soak them in oil overnight, oil will seep in.

[@Eeropolvasti]

Yep, I agree, this is important!!!

[@TheFranklinIII]

I thought that I have the same problem on my car. To distinguish between top and bottom end I made a audio recording of the engine noise and changed the speed of the audio to 8 times slower. Then I was able to count the number of tics per second I was hearing and compare that to the idle RPM I had. Result. It was around 7 to 8 tics per second. At an Idle RPM of around 750. That means it tics at half the crankshaft RPM. So it has to be a camshaft or top end problem with a single camshaft engine which it is in my case. Easy method which can be done with any smart phone and a pair of headphones. Best regards and congrets to the new oscilloscope. Ben

[@SchrodingersBox]

Benjamin Bergmann That's a great idea!!

[@TheFranklinIII]

Schrodingers Box Well, the lifters are changed. Directly after the change the it sounded like the same lifter was still ticking. And it was ticking dispute being imersed in oil for an entire week. Luckily the ticking disappeared after a couple of minutes at 2500 RPM. Just as the instructions which came with the lifter said. The Camshaft bearings being made from aluminium looked very good as did the cam and the old lifters. No signs of ware / excessive ware. After a test drive and the oil being at almost 130°C (it is very warm here right now) I thought there was a little bit of ticking again. When I raise the rmp from 850 to 900 I cant hear any ticking any more. I guess it is just me hearing the flees coughing. In the end it was at least on lifter an the repair included the oily valve lid seal. The rotary seal was also changed. So all in all I am happy and hope that this is the last repair on that car for the year. Best regards. Benjamin

[@TheFranklinIII]

Benjamin Bergmann One more thing. Since the hydro change the card made about 600Km. Now it feels, especially when the engine is cold, that the engine has more power. I have to go up e steep gradient about 2000m after leaving home and it used to be that 4rth gear and 80km/h was the maximum at my usual gas padel position. Now at that setting I go up at 90km/h. I think I sould measure the compression when the engine is cold. Las year I hat 9 9 7 9 bars. Still in speck but low. When warm I had 11 11 11 11 bars. Usually the car has to be warm or the oil at least 30°C. My guess is that the compression is there now right from the start and that the valves now are perfectly adjusted open and close the way they are supposed to. After all a nice result for 4 hours of work. Best regards. Benjamin

[@TheFranklinIII]

Very simple in the end. You can even make the noise visible when a different sound ist present. My alternator belt is making a noise after I refurbished the alternator. Since the belt only makes the noise when is is wet outside and I hade more serios problems I ignored the belt by high pass filtering the sound with audacity. Then I took a one second pick of the noise and visualized it as a spectrogram and a wave form. After listening to it a couple of times I recognized the pattern which made up the TICKING in the waveform and copied it to a blank sound file. The last thing I did was putting the short wave form ten times behind each other. The result was the ticking sound I already knew. That way I am pretty sure that it is a top end problem. Opening up the cover from the cylinder head gives the final clue. A lifter that can be depressed more than 1/10 of a millimeter. Putting a new one in solves the problem. Best regards Benjamin

[@jeffreywilsonrubikscubeonb2428]

Great video Matt. I like the part where you time lapsed the upper and lower intake removal. I sure wish I could time lapse all my engine repair jobs in real life :)

[@peachylizzify]

Your videos are very informative!! We are having tapping/knocking noise on our 2001 Tahoe and it had a lot of sludge (from previous owner) rod knock or collapsed lifter would probably the problem thank you for your videos!!!!

[@geoffreypavia128]

Hi Matt, at 1:51 in the Video I diagnosed 100% valve train issue as when you removed the intake manifold, I noticed the rocker arm move when you clipped it with the manifold. Great Videos, keep them up. What you lack in industry experience, you make up with your brain and intelligence.

[@wyattandwill12]

I have practically the same car, it’s a 99 Cutlass and it’s the T&C to that Grand Caravan so to speak. My engine overheated bad and hopefully my lifters will be fixed simply with the reconditioning. Fortunately it’s something you can test without putting it back together. Hopefully the cam’s fine too. The car only has right under 70K but a mix of possible improper care by previous owners and it being abused as mentioned (and sitting for an easy 5 years) could mean something bigger. Compression is only below spec in one cylinder, not the one with the bad rocker arm play.

[@ForkliftJoe]

One shop I worked in had a couple of cars come in when the engine was completely gummed up with sludge and a huge tar ball in the oil pan. We hooked up a direct read oil pressure gauge and filled the crankcase with 3 parts diesel fuel and 1 part ATF and let it idle. (not for the faint of heart - but hey, if the engine locks up it needed replacing anyway, right?) Both cars survived and we put them back together with Castrol 20W-50 and ATF

[@stuzman52]

Nice work Matt and I'm sure the customer is very happy now.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Thanks Terry. They were happy- In fact- this car is owned by a disabled couple who didn't have money to fix the car and it actually sat in their driveway for 2 years. After hearing their story, I couldn't help but fix the car basically for cost of parts. The woman actually cried when she heard how smooth it started up and several of their neighbors now have asked me to do work on their cars after seeing the "miracle resurrection" of that car after 2 years!

[@stuzman52]

Schrodingers Box That's really great of you Matt to help someone out like that who really does appreciate it. I can remember when I was working for myself doing electrical contracting work. This whole family was laid up in the house because of a car accident. There were casts on their arms, legs, bandages,etc. After hearing their story, I decided to install the 120V outlet for their window air conditioner for free. Although I told them the pricing and they agreed to it, I surprised them at the end by saying the job was free. Although the price was only a $100 at the time, you thought they won a million dollars. It made me feel pretty good that what I did was appreciated. I'm sure you felt the same way when you saw the lady crying. Wish I could have been there. Take care Matt.

[@chainsaw1150]

Schrodingers Box Great kindness. I am a Firefighter and love seeing people do good for people. More of that in society would be great.

[@genericusername1365]

stuzman52 That is a good thing you did. Now they will be inspired to do something for someone else when they have the opportunity. Imagine what the world would be like if everyone did this!

[@widtrak77]

@@SchrodingersBox kudos to you, Matt! My '89 3.1 has the same exact noise so I'm going to go through this procedure. I have to assume those collapsed lifters were not pumping oil up the pushrod, correct? I can see and feel a cylinder #6 pushrod through the oil fill and after running the engine for short period it is bone dry.

[@loucifer2013]

That was awesome! I have the same noise in my Cadillac CTS and I decided to check out the top end exactly like you did. I wanted to check to see if there was a video to proceed from where I'm at which is exactly where you started from with the valve covers off. I guess my next step will be to remove the rocker arms and see if I find anything like you found. I will check by hand first to see if anything is loose but just wanted to ask if one of the rocker arms was loose, should I just tighten it and try to see if noise goes away or should I just remove all of them anyways in case there is a chance that one or more of my lifters is the problem as well.

[@tpcoachfix]

Very good. Is there a video showing the head gasket replacement and the process to straighten or resurface the head? Thanks

[@SchrodingersBox]

@TPCoach- In the interest of time and staying on focus for the specific content I did not film anything with the cylinder head. Besides, I try to generally make my videos more about the diagnosis than the actual repair. It seems there are thousands of "repair" videos on KZbin but very few that (IMO at least) that are good with showing diagnosis so you know you are doing the correct repair in the first place!! However stay tuned. I did get a call about another car that I strongly suspect has a minor or initial stage of some type of head gasket issue, and if so, I will make a video comparing the many various methods for diagnosis of a failed head gasket and see which ones are most accurate- from chemical test to compression test to leakdown to visual tests to coolant pressure test...and even a few experimental tests I thought up and we'll see how they work! I will also cover the repair including measuring for flatness and testing for cracks etc, gasket selection and preparation, torquing, and break-in.

[@ad356]

it looks like they are roller lifters. i believe that if they are roller lifters they do not wear themselves to the camshaft like flat tapped. in order words i believe you would be able to replace the lifter and not worry about the cam. you managed to salvage them anyways. they were probably gummed from having coolant mix with the oil

[@pusherpilot]

Thank you for the time that it took to do this video.

[@racso5628]

I have a similar noise that happens at about 1500 RPM. Could it be the same thing? When putting everything back together on a job like this, how do you make sure the components are in the same way they came out? is it like doing a tune up? Do you have a video on that as well?

[@tomasnokechtesledger1786]

Why didn't you try first a run with a quart of MMO in the oil, Matt?

[@cmte.brazinazzo2061]

Hi Matt, I've had collapsed lifters in my Scooby (long drain isn't good even using synthetic) and also a leaking fuel from one injector, that wasn't closing enough, after shut down. The thing is that I got diluted engine oil from the fuel leak to the cylinders and endup with good lifters!! Just had to change one injector and the oil and now is all good! Got a Free flush.

[@DENicholsAutoBravado]

For sure. Extra gas at the wrong time in chamber will get in the oil and that sure could make lifters sound bad. Every time I see a video with excessive unburnt gas going in the engine I think, you need an oil change now. If it's briefly for a test I don't worry. Sorry, buddy, if it hasn't ruined your catalytic converter from fuel still flowing in your exhaust stroke your catalytic converter may not last as long.

[@rico20091000]

Hi again Matt, finally found out positively that you have to remove the heads to replace the lifters on a 5.3L Chevy Vortec engine. Still have a very loud knock, tic that I assume is lifter noise. 98K on the engine, and now this. 2003 Silverado. Tried the seafoam trick and cleaner and no change. Sounds like it is No.2 or 4 cyl. will try your advice on whether it is top end or lower end. Heads made in Canada that year casting stamp 706 which Chevy knew some were bad and others not with that no., but used them anyway, I have 706 Heads. Sure would like to see a video on a 5.3 vortec lifter change with rocker arm tightening sequence. Thanks for your video's.

[@Takeit2kyle]

One thing I'm not sure if u mentioned is on these gm v6 motors the pushrods are 2 different sizes the exhaust ones are longer by a small amount then the intake it's very important to make sure u don't mix them up just a word to the wize lol

[@SchrodingersBox]

True that! In fact I once found this to be the case in a different car when customer did their own cylinder head repair and couldn't figure out where the engine noise was coming from after the repair. Turns out they did not notice exactly what you pointed out and they felt pretty silly when I showed the difference in length of the rods. His cylinder head replacement only lasted a few weeks too lol- seems maybe auto repair not his thing!

[@andrewskater8813]

using a long handle screwdriver you can identify injector noise, lifter noises gear noises bearing noises. Anything that moves creates a noise. If you check your engine noises on a regular basis it is then simple to find noises which are showing a fault

[@SchrodingersBox]

I can assure you it is impossible to listen to this using a screwdriver and getting an accurate diagnosis.

[@widtrak77]

SO Did you have those cylinders with the loose pushrods at TDC Compression when you checked for the play?

[@arifshahab6275]

Mine is defiantly bottom noise tell me if I change pistons, rods and bearings the sound will go away for good 5 yrs which is important for me as I cant afford to change car that quickly or how much time do I have if I should go for overhaul or keep running the car till another head gasket is done ??

[@reallyboringindividual]

I have similar noise which has been occurring from 2.5k RPM, but as of recently all over the board. Mechanic told me it's probably lifters... Replacing all 16 valves in my Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 on Tuesday.

[@RC-Heli835]

Awesome man! My daughters Ford Focus sounds exactly like this car and I'm wondering if it might be the same thing. There are lots of other complaints on the Focus though about valve seats dropping.

[@arifshahab6275]

Im not sure if a rebuild will complete remove the sound as I have drove about 400k km, tell if a rebuild will have the engine fully fit for another 5 or so year or should I change the car with another ?

[@mhma2007]

Hi Matt. I have a 2002 Dodge Durango with a 4.7L engine. The car had an engine knock that didn't go away as I pulled the spark plug cords one by one. I found a slack in the timing chains, after replacing the timing chains the car still has a knock. I removed the serpentine belt to isolate the water pump but there was no difference. Any ideas?

[@SchrodingersBox]

Mahmoud Abdel-Fattah See my video "testing for rod knock using a screwdriver".

[@johnazhderian5734]

Did you replace the head gasket before reinstalling the lifters? If an engine just had collapsed lifters can a good oil additive resolved this issue without tearing the engine down. Labor costs in repairing an engine is very high.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Of course! There is no point fixing the lifter noise of the car has a head gasket problem.

[@heinz490]

head gasket is under the head he didnt take the head of

[@Eeropolvasti]

OK, good job! By the way, did you change the head gasket?? How straight was the head???In specs?? And one more thing, what do you use soaking lifters over night?? Gasoline?? Mineral spirit OK?? Thanks, youtheman =)

[@michaelbasten2671]

Hi I have a 3.4 in an 05 impale and it has that same tick. So I put new lifters in. Put it back together the same way so I know the push rods are right but still makes same nose. And the rocker bolts are tight. None are stripped. No one can tell me what's wrong. There is oil going through the rocker arms. And when I roll the motor by hand I can hear a tick as well. Any ideas?

[@SchrodingersBox]

See my video on "diagnosing rod know using a screwdriver" and try that just to rule it out.

[@onlydan3820]

Timing Chain Loose? Mine makes a ticking sound as well when moving the crank pully left and right....

[@davidcollis4758]

I watched a video of a guy putting 1 oz of Seafoam per quart of oil and made a similar noise go away. My Mom has a 2004 Buick century with one of these crap engines making the same noise. She changes her oil regularly with synthetic oil. I think I'm going to try the Seafoam thing first. Thanks for the video.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Why no0t diagnose the condition to know if the seafoam could even possibly work?

[@davidcollis4758]

@@SchrodingersBox I know it is a lifter. It is a known GM problem with these engines. I will try the simplest fix first. I'm sure I will end up replacing the lifters and possibly the rocker arms.

[@12vgs8606]

I like how you made the pile of the parts as you took them off :-)

[@SchrodingersBox]

@12vgs lol yeah i got the idea for that sequence from when I used to watch Stacy David on TRUCKS! on sunday mornings. He always did those types of scenes on his teardowns lol.

[@SchrodingersBox]

By the way, am I meeting your standards for A/V quality? A lot has changed since last year, no?

[@12vgs8606]

You make look yourself very skinny in your videos! The aspect ratio is wrong but I no longer complain.

[@12vgs8606]

Are you aware of the fact that you might be the only rocket scientist who owns a FireChicken? I have feeling that at typical FireChicken reunion, high-school dropouts would be largest group :-) Just having fun with you!

[@SchrodingersBox]

12vgs8606

[@dannymartinez8314]

My wife's cougar started making that noise when she hit a dip to fast, I got it to stop without identifying what it was, then one day I hit a dip to fast and the noise came back, so I really want to identify what it is, any ideas would it be appreciated.

[@SchrodingersBox]

When I first read that I thought you were saying your wife is a cougar lol. if it happens when you are hitting dips the first step is to determine if the noise happens while the car is still moving or not. If the noise conitnues when car stops, it could be low oil level that temporary runs the engine on low pressure as pickup tube whiffs on picking up oil. If (more likely) the sound is happening while car is still moving it could be anything loose or misaligned from brakes, driveline, CV axles, etc....

[@dannymartinez8314]

@@SchrodingersBox I tell her all the time to get rid of The Nightmare cougar as I call it, because she's getting close to forties and driving that car looking like a cougar driving a cougar, no I kid, don't tell her I said that, no for the reason that I call it the nightmare cougar I tell her to get rid of it, it's so hard to work on, the last work that I did on it was replacing the generator yes I know alternator but in this spec books it calls it a generator, since her brother gave her the car I've been doing the work on it and it's been running badass I like working on things that I've never worked on before and finding out how it works and how they run and this nightmare cougar has been a challenge for me, I was thinking the same something being misaligned with the CV axle or something of the sort because when I had to change out the power steering I noticed when I removed the engine mount it wasn't in very good shape and I believe when It hit that dip It could have jogged the engine out of alignment or something, I was thinking it sounds like the lifters when I start the vehicle in the morning it doesn't really make the sound until it warms up then when I'm stopping at a stop sign or light it sounds really loud and because of the Dual tailpipes I cannot notice if it's making a noise when I'm driving, I appreciate your help and second thought it's always good to work with Two Brains, now I just got to find that second one!

[@loganstory5931]

i got a 99 cutless and mine makes that noise when it is cold and goes away when warm. how would i be able to fix it

[@SchrodingersBox]

+gamerdude1232 What did your diagnostic tests that you did indicate?

[@jorgepedroza46]

Woow...I watched your videos... And they were very helpful.. I have a 2009 volvo s40 That is making a noisy similar to that but that only happens when the gas is apply ... I Do Not Know What It Is But Your Videos Is..giving..me. hope It Could fixxed Thank you very much..

[@descrewface4493]

What happened to the heads did he resurface and new gaskets? Did you install a camshaft?

[@SchrodingersBox]

I did replace the head with after it was machined (Actually I had both done just to keep it even). No need for a cam since I rescued the lifters

[@jsomedaysoonthompson3840]

could this be prevented somehow? was it from a lack of frequent oil changes? would some regular seafoam or lucas additive help prevent it?

[@SchrodingersBox]

+Jsomedaysoon Thompson As stated in the video it was from a bad head gasket

[@jsomedaysoonthompson3840]

I didn't make the connection. I thought they were two independent problems.

[@BEEBEE159]

Thank you for making these videos. You did a great job explaining what you were doing and filming it. I found it very helpful. Again, great job!!

[@arifshahab6275]

Bro you are good ! I have the same noise in my corolla 2e its engine has never been rebuild except head job which we have to do as we here in Pakistan runs most on CNG which puts more pressure on head gasket

[@whaddayawant2197]

Why more pressure? Does compression ratio change when the factory switches a motor to cng?

[@e.o.g.739]

How you do the screwdriver test? Is the new head gasket in?

[@SchrodingersBox]

just touch it to the piston and look for play in the rod bearing.

[@widtrak77]

Where did you get those tubes you soaked the lifters in

[@SchrodingersBox]

hahahahaha yeah I get asked that a lot. I'm a scientist- they are sample tubes for a 50ml centrifuge that I stole from the lab!

[@widtrak77]

@@SchrodingersBox I figured 😆 I went to a medical supply and got some specimen containers with lids. Close as I could get. I just pulled my intake and found three lifters that appear somewhat collapsed. I was getting the same chattering noise from my 3.1.There is some up and down play in the intake pushrods on #1,4, and 5 and they seem depressed into the lifter some and the tops are pooled up with oil. I am hoping I can clean them as you did and quiet the engine up. It was always pretty quiet and it came on suddenly

[@reinaldodepedro]

I got a used MBenz 2014 c250 and it makes a similar noise since I bought it, is that normal on my car?

[@SchrodingersBox]

no

[@reinaldodepedro]

I feared you would said that, will take it to warranty in orlando fl next month and let you know, what they say, thank you.

[@tpcoachfix]

Did you also take care of the head gasket problem while you had the engine torn down that far?

[@SchrodingersBox]

@tpcoachfix- I did indeed take care of the head gasket but I didn't show it since this video was about the engine noise. The head was indeed warped (a previous "craigslist mechanic" did the work and just replaced the gasket and never checked for cause of the blown gasket) and in fact I removed both heads and had them fluxed and resurfaced just to be safe.

[@chainsaw1150]

Schrodingers Box Did one show a crack at all. good job dude.

[@SchrodingersBox]

***** Good question- as part of the machine shop resurfacing job, I did have both heads magnafluxed and no cracks were found. The cause of the original overheat condition, I suspect, was an extremely dirty radiator as all the fins were very clogged. Powerwashing it looked like I was powerwashing pure mud from an offroad vehicle!

[@chainsaw1150]

Schrodingers Box Wow. I had one like that before. As technicians we are always looking for things that cause engine failures and bad running engines. It just trained into us as we do visuals over all engines. You can tell approximate condition of an engine based on how well the car is taken care of. Well thanks for replying back, if I have any good diag techniques I post them to you. always watching your channel good teachings.

[@DENicholsAutoBravado]

***** Great tip about gunk build up being a sign towards "think the worst is more likely than usual".

[@jamnadaspolra9589]

Thanks for yr guidance ,jp from Australia

[@Good-Enuff-Garage]

i love learning by comparison, you did a great job

[@chainsaw1150]

good job dude. besides the leak down test did you perform a cooling pressure test or combustion gases in coolant test just curious. Oh also did they report any overheating issues or boil over at all.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Hi Chris- No I did not do a pressure test because in my opinion the leakdown is ultimately definitive. I did not show the head replacement as I already have another video on that. The customer never complained of an overheat but then again being disabled they drove the car very minimally- it probably gets under 10 miles a week I would say, so probably never ran enough to overheat, though they did have to keep adding coolant to it occassionally. They are damn lucky the engine wasn't destroyed! It is still running fine to this day.

[@abderrahmanegouasmi7556]

good video. thank you. i will keep watching your videos.

[@rocketmc_customs4878]

Would bad lifters cause compression loss?

[@SchrodingersBox]

They certainly would.

[@1ZZFE]

Great effort Matt.

[@intrade1000]

i see i was to late on the other video only seen after i posted my guess on it , you solved it already , keep up the good work.

[@enzoman444]

Fantastic video. Thank you

[@turbobuick33]

How many miles on the engine?

[@SchrodingersBox]

At the time I believe there were 126K on it.

[@geeess958]

Excellent

[@nwrth]

You're the best! Very educative stuff. Thank you. :-)

[@SchrodingersBox]

Wow, thanks!

[@grzegorz16100]

Wow!! I didn't know that lifters can be fixed!!

[@SchrodingersBox]

They sure can- see my lifter repair video- link is in description. Works fantastic!

[@Yourmomloser]

Schrodingers Box what about using berrymans carb cleaner and motor flush. specifically on a chevy ls1 motor. the lifters are not as easily accessible as they are on this car (under the heads) but i was wondering what your opinion would be.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Ben Aguayo If motor flush would have fixed these lifters I would be amazed- and would be worried sick about how thin must the oil have become to allow them to unstick anyway

[@mtrltoolman]

great video thanks matt.

[@vahidhashemi6342]

Good job man

[@johndecowski8007]

I think if the cam was bad it probably would be skipping

[@russwelday]

A worn cam lobe sounds just like a lifter but wont go away like a lifter that finally pumps up or unsticks. Can also cause misfire and set a code.

[@patt030]

Very good vids man !

[@erladdi4817]

Awesome