Enneagram: Intro To Types 5-6

[@delaynamartinez8866]

When you step into a 5’s office and the first thing they’re thinking is, “why are you here?” 😂😂😂 this is literally me at work.

[@ichbinnichtich]

Absolutely! When I am minding my business with my headphones in the office and someone comes to talk to me, me thinking "why are you here?" LOL that's why I mostly work remotely now. I do go to the an office whenever I want to but I don't feel as intruded on because I decided to see people not the other way around haha

[@christianneyoung4010]

I think fives often have a hard time taking action on things that they study because they enjoy studying because they get Good feelings from the intellectual stimulation from learning and studying. They don't get so much excitement from doing the actual work. My mom was a five. She loved learning all about gardening. She didn't ever set foot in the garden though because that didn't give her the same excitement that learning about gardening did. She loved telling people what she knew about gardening but never had a garden herself.

[@chloeryan3029]

Oh 100% I will love doing my sociology research going the extra mile and decks into topics and sub topics but then when it comes to the papers I struggle to put my thoughts to words and the complexity of my thoughts and research added together creates a gridlock

[@avilayne2812]

I guess Im kinda randomly asking but do anyone know of a good site to stream newly released movies online ?

[@alialiraqi2664]

i feel like having high dopamin level after learning it. but low levels when i am finding myself doing it in real life :)

[@ashleyschomer5590]

"Four steps away from homelessness" is the way I will start describing my thought processes to others.

[@LollyDolly76]

I'm a 5 and have taught high school for 21 years now. Frustrating at times, sure... but it is also a good fit. I love the constant challenge and growth and my 5 shines as I study how to reach and teach others. I like that I can choose how much of myself to share. Parent communication tires me out very fast but the lessons never do. I love working with the information to make it easier to understand.

[@vazzaroth]

I'm glad you're talking about 5's not wanting to have needs. I hear this about 9's only, and test in 90%s for 5 and 9. Your example of "Not having a relationship with dad" is exactly how my childhood went. (Better parental relationship now that I'm an adult btw) I am pretty dang sure I'm a 5 but it seems like most people just say that's 9 stuff.

[@heatherbryant4197]

I'm not sure who told you that's a 9 trait. I definitely see it as a 5 trait. 9s can push their own needs aside in favor of deferring to other people's needs, so as to avoid conflict, disharmony or any unpleasantness, and they can do this so compulsively that they start to have trouble recognizing their own needs (until the suppression erupts in a burst of passive aggressiveness). But 9s are moreso creatures of comfort and 5s are the ones who take an acetic approach, unafraid of the experience of intense minimalism and eschewing humankind like 9s might, trying to minimize & eliminate their own needs altogether so that they can avoid the disappointment foreshadowed by attachment to both physical objects and expectations (much in the way of the Stoic philosophy), and, perhaps more importantly, to eliminate any dependence on other people, and even the potential for dependence on other people. I think this is part of what the hoarding is about... If we, and we alone, are the source of our own knowledge, our own resources, our own happiness, our own confidence, our own sense of identity, and have all those things stockpiled and safety tucked away for a rainy day, then we never have to turn to anyone else for help. I'd venture to say fear of becoming dependent on other people is perhaps a greater fear than what is described as our core fear (incompetence). This might stem partly from the 8 direction of growth, and might be more pronounced in 5s without a heavy 6 wing. In any 5, this still bears a stark contrast to the 9 though, who can also be withdrawn and not want to impose on people (for different reasons), but is ultimately less antisocial and more comfortable with the idea of interdependence. In fact the 9's core fear is losing loved ones, and this seems incompatible with not wanting to rely on anyone for anything. I could possibly see how the waters might be muddied if you're comparing yourself to a 9w8 though, because they might take on some of that 8 independence via fear of being controlled. Ultimately I think it might be most helpful to ask yourself why you're doing what you do; what is your subconscious motivation and what fear drives the behavior?

[@gracetrainor4712]

@@heatherbryant4197 I completely agree with you on the core fear. The fear of being incompetent is present, I believe, because if you are incompetent you have to rely on other people. So the core fear would then be relying on other people. I also believe that being a rejection type also adds to this fear.

[@heatherbryant4197]

@@gracetrainor4712 Could you elaborate on what you mean by rejection type?

[@gracetrainor4712]

@@heatherbryant4197 Yeah, the rejection types are 2, 5, and 8. Here is a video that explains what that means. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f161qaOqZdR-rqc

[@silvanabonilla1291]

9w1 here, grew up with a 6w5 dad , I can relate to the “energy transfer” of stress and anxiety to the people near them. Ironically as a 9, this energy helped me get this done out of fear. Now as an adult, trying to accomplish but from a place of peace and equanimity as opposed to anxiety and stress. Thanks for such amazing videos. I always gain so many insights from them!

[@twlahue]

Thanks for your kind words.

[@ANGEL-eh6pd]

Thank you for this info. INTP 5 9 4. Yes, teachers didn't like him, so he learned not to ask questions and he got very bored. I felt so bad for him. The educational system are not equipped to teach us, the intuitive thinkers. I was the same way. Enneagram 2

[@JohnM-dy3dh]

What sparked my interest in the enneagram was a relationship where she told me her type. I found out I was a 6 and since then these videos have changed my life. I'm working on establishing truths/opinions and relying less on others. This being said, people in relationships with me that lie about their feelings destroy trust I have in them and myself. It's like taking 12 steps back but I'm working on recovering and being able to trust others more and, more importantly, myself. Thank you for what you do!

[@margaretjudice8944]

Fives might think it would use too much of their energy to teach a large group. They would rather be home. Great information! Thank you for sharing!

[@Highwind79]

Them: " You are weird." Me: Takes it and wears it as a badge of honor.

[@ichbinnichtich]

Everything is so true about 5. I still find it crazy that is so spot on. Definitely, the intrusion part and also the detachment I can absolutely detach and go to my la la land, I also tend to push away people that I feel are to invasive or needy even family. Many times I noticed I don't get angry about things because I am very logical, if there's nothing I can do then I won't be bothered. The only thing is that sometimes 5's are portraited as being detached and cold but personally I'd consider myself a healthy 5 and I did a lot of introspecting and therapy in my life to the point I can totally understand my feeling and where they come from, sometimes I find myself finding my feelings towards a situation a bit irrational but I just accept them and don't act on them if I feel like I am being unreasonable. I can totally have my feelings self it's just that I am too aware of that feeling self that many times I can just put it aside and justify it with logic.

[@isa-manuelaalbrecht2951]

Yesss imaginary relship and cherrishing the cactus attitude..great insight..heeheehee 5/6 here intj..😁😄🤣🤩👏👏👏💥💯🤪😚

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

“4’s think they’re different. 5’s really are.” 🤓 Btw, I share type and instinct with Johnny Depp! That explains a lot :D

[@vazzaroth]

The phrase I like/use is "objective fact" or "Objective truth" rather than scientifically. That's the thing with science... people who TRUELY understand what science is know that scientific facts are able to be disproved at ANY time. Many scientists and disciplines have explicit disagreements and might not always work as a single system. Only people that blindly worship science as an authority tend to act like science is a single unchanging monolith. If you're a 5, and you "worship" science, I suggest you re-examine that idea. As a fellow 5-INTP. :) Trust me, I was that way when I was younger, and it was a bad move!

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

Unsolicited cosign by an INTJ 5W4 biologist xD

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

You were the 5 who calculated the 7,760 Ennea combos, huh? ;)

[@lonefaolan6042]

It finally hit home. I know I have some 5 and 4 in me. These two types resonate in my bones the most. I typed as a 4 with a wing 5. I feel this is most likely the case. The driving force for me is to know who I am and be who I am to the fullest, but I have that investigative part as well. It is not my primary drive. However, it is a highly influential part. I can relate with that perspective of the five thinking to themself, “Why, are you here in my office?”.

[@simplynej]

"Researched the fire out of...." For sure. I'm always fired up to learn about something, or how to do something. And quite often the fire does burn out during (or after) the research. I think of it like the research phase is my way to thin the herd, or distinguish between "I'm interested in learning about this" and "I'm interested in doing this." When/if an interest makes it past this first thinning - stand back! Because I'm "loaded for bear" with the knowledge and plans it will take to make it happen. Ha!

[@astrolobster]

Thanks for the video! It’s awesome. I’m 6w5 and sometimes I don’t want to be loyal. I want just to live at the moment and do what’s best. I want to do what I want and not because I want smb be good and loyal to me back. I don’t know what it is. I’m sure of my type, but I feel great with this new approach. In the past I used to be nice hoping people will be nice back.

[@svitlanadrutska8688]

It's sucks to be a 6. Like there are no true feelings. It's always a manipulation 'i'll be good with you for you to be good with me when i'll need it'. Don't like it about myself and tend to be alone because i don't want to feel this 'goodness' about others. Any other 6s had that thought?

[@Joyfaithjustine]

I love listening to your videos

[@twlahue]

Thanks so much... that is very nice.

[@nicolereiff7846]

Lol it's like you're in my 6w5 head. My thought literally today after I ate a chocolate valentine: "I'm addicted to sugar, and if I don't change I'm going to get diabetes." I don't know whether my fear will make me change, but it's definitely made me panic.

[@twlahue]

Nice...

[@vazzaroth]

As a 5 (Not sure if w4 or 6 but think w4) it's funny because I see consequences, but largely see them as a funny possible outcome. Eating bad = unhealthy, everyone knows that. I know that as I eat bad. But it feels like an equation that I've accepted the product of, even if I ALSO don't want to be unhealthy. It's strange. I think this is a product of chronically low self-esteem. A way for me to sabotoge myself into doing bad things and thinking I "deserve" the bad consequences. Idk.

[@nicolereiff7846]

@@vazzaroth I find that really interesting. My younger self would do what you're describing too... Been a long time since I've thought about that, but it must have been like a means of dissociating my lack of will to change from the future consequences because if you can laugh about it then the consequence must not be that bad.

[@alive4ever865]

Oh my god. I am also a 6w5 and this train of thought is one I have had since I was like 13. It hasn‘t really made me change yet, but I recently thought it again and have eaten less sugar since then.

[@angeliaklee]

My aunt is a 6 and goes through the same thought process every time she drinks wine lol

[@paulcollins6732]

Thanks, Tom. Always like your videos. Best wishes from an Irish 5w4!

[@twlahue]

Thank you too!

[@thesoares5128]

I would say as a 5 it's not that we discipline our minds to come to conclusions. The problem or information nags at the mind constantly until a satisfactory conclusion is reached and then it may settle and leave us in peace. I can understand the Nealisim concept, but thankful as a Christian I can accept that God knows all that I cannot understand and I can leave it there... there are many things HE knows that we cannot know or understand here. Thanks for another great video!

[@vazzaroth]

Exactly! I was just explaining this as Ti on a Jungian video. I'm a Thinking-dominant and unknown or unsolved problems bounce around my head no matter what I want. Solving them is a compulsion, not a desire. I have to learn a lot of techniques to forget or move on from unsolved or unsolvable issues, far more than issues to make myself solve them. (Unless it's a physical real-world problem, then I can sit there and just not do it for possibly ever, lol)

[@winterrose4411]

I relate a lot to both types. Sometimes I don't know if I am a 5w6 or 6w5. How can I be sure?

[@twlahue]

Good question...that can be tough

[@winterrose4411]

@@twlahue Yes, I often test as both. either 5 with a strong 6 wing or 6 with a strong 5 wing. I tend to think I may be a 6 because at my best I look more like a 9 than an 8, and at my worst I probably relate more to a 3 than a 7. I have read many 5w6 and 6w5 descriptions and I feel like I relate to both!

[@peterdentice5725]

16:25 Only if it is true, can something be fact. Only if it's a representative, can it be data. Only if it's supportive, can it be evidence. A note of having more qualifying criteria to pass is basically what adding "scientific" means.

[@laurenhannon]

As a 6w5 this describes a lot of my life. Almost wonder now if I’m a 5w6. Hmm. Great info. Thanks.

[@twlahue]

Glad to help

[@joannatoth5848]

It isn't that they have a hard time "Turning in the paper or getting it done". It is that we are perfectionists and always feel whatever we do is not good enough! And I did great in school, graduated in the top 1% of my class and my professors loved me so none of these fit. I have read a lot about enneagram 5 and it has fit perfectly with other videos I have seen on KZbin. This one does not seem to fit at all.

[@gracetrainor4712]

Could you maybe do a video going more in depth into the minimizing needs for five, and whether that is good or bad? It is really hard for me to find information this topic.

[@heatherbryant4197]

I think that for the most part it is helpful, but, like any tendency, can be taken to an unhealthy extreme. When it comes to the material realm, minimizing our needs helps us develop self-control and discipline. It helps us be independent and makes us "low maintenance" or "easy to please." And it helps us achieve the values many fives have of not being materialistic or outcome-dependent on things like status symbols that others chase fervently. When our fulfillment is determined by something intrinsic within us, rather than the approval of others or the fleeting things in life, our happiness is not subject to the whims of others, what money can buy, or other things outside of our control, and is therfore more stable. You also avoid the troubles that accompany imposition and interloping on others, including driving people away with perceived clinging, cloying and neediness. However, if we lower our expectations to avoid disappointment when it comes to how others treat us, this can lead to becoming a doormat. I think that particularly in the realm of social/intimate needs, this becomes more tricky and is potentially dangerous territory. Minimizing our needs for human interaction and relying _only_ on ourselves for _everything_ (to an extreme) can lead to isolation and potentially contribute to depression, in even the most self-preserving variant. Minimizing our sexual needs, especially to become more self-reliant, may help us develop impulse control and master the art of delayed gratification; however, suppressing needs in an unnatural Puritan fashion may cause unhealthy tension and emotional problems, perhaps especially for the 5 sx. Having few needs in a relationship can also make us seem distant, closed off, aloof, and people may even assume that we are simply too afraid to ask for what we want and have low self esteem. It can potentially lead to being taken advantage of. On the flipside, some people find it hard to believe that you really want nothing from them and have no ulterior motives, and thus will become highly suspicious of your innocuous lack of requests. So, in summary, like many traits actually, I can't really say it's good or bad; that subjective interpretation is up to the individual and what they value or are trying to accomplish. Having few needs can certainly have advantages, but also cause difficulty with others and potentially put a lot of strain on the self if you are actually depriving yourself of what you realistically need more of (whether that be sleep or nutrition or mental stimulation or exercise or what have you). So I think balance is key.

[@gracetrainor4712]

@@heatherbryant4197 expertly said, thanks for your input.

[@heatherbryant4197]

@@gracetrainor4712 my pleasure!

[@marybethfarrell652]

I would disagree with some of this. 5s are really good in emergency situations, we keep our heads and can look at a problem in new ways. Of if someone interrupts, be ok with a brief conversation, we feel good bc we used our strengths for good! Also- I can’t imagine a 5 doing an internet mlm thing, for a whole bunch of reasons

[@NaNa-wy2tk]

would you ever a video on relationship(friendship & romantic) of people that have the same type but different wing? what's the relationship like for a 9w1 with a 9w8?

[@jsievers]

Wow! ... Unbelievable. I feel heard. Thank you for the awareness your videos are bringing me. 6wing7

[@twlahue]

You are so welcome

[@youssefshahir8624]

How to make money as an iconoclast impractical and conceptual 5w4 ??

[@twlahue]

Professor of Philosophy or Ancient Studies??? maybe?

[@youssefshahir8624]

@@twlahue hmm but that doesn't work in my country 🤦

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

*Heretical yet illuminating comment censored by KZbin™*

[@youssefshahir8624]

@@WackadoodleMalarkey what do you mean by that ?

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

Boo, capitalism is too conventional :P

[@mickbeilman]

5s can love to share information but not with people they feel don't want to hear it. They can be stingy with information because the people they are around don't want to learn from it. Proverbs 17:12