Enneagram: Childhood Message Of Each Type

Transformational Enneagram & Relationship Coaching
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Dr. Tom LaHue is a graduate of Florida Christian College. He holds 3 Master's Degrees including an MDiv from Liberty Univ. His Doctoral degree is from Grace College and Seminary. He is also a certified Marriage Coach. He and his wife Traci have been married since 1991. They are the proud parents of 5 children and 5 grandchildren.
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[@macoeur1122]

Type 1 - 2:26 Type 2 - 6:25 Type 3 - 9:55 Type 4 - 12:55 Type 5 - 16:30 Type 6 - 20:52 Type 7 - 24:45 Type 8 - 27:29 Type 9 - 29:18

[@catlvrzz]

thank u so much

[@User-19273]

Thanks a lot!

[@hezebelbeing]

Thank you!! I always appreciate people like yourself who help us all out. You're great!

[@suziqquzi2527]

Thank you for time sets.

[@macoeur1122]

y'all or so welcome! no problem!

[@Talkingdaisy-no6nu]

As a type 4 this is so accurate. I would get excited about things as a kid like special interests or holidays and something would happen. My dad was an alcoholic and ruin holidays and my mom was very emotionless and never seemed interested in things I liked. My little sister would use me as the butt of jokes (her defense mechanism) and kind of make fun of my passionate interests. I eventually just shut down and kept my excitement and interests to myself. I learned to not seem excited outwardly, I’d be moody and I was labeled as having a “rain cloud”over my head all the time. It’s better than being disappointed! However, having kids slowly allowed me to start having fun and be excited about things. It was safe I guess to be joyful around my small kids who shared my excitement and didn’t make fun of me🤷‍♀️ I’m 42 now and I am really starting to let myself experience things my childhood self never did. Wonder, excitement, joy and the ability to be free

[@peacelove2994]

As a 4, the fear around a lack of identity is based in the fact that we were forced to meet the needs of others as opposed to our own, so we never really knew ourselves or had the skillset to cultivate our own boundaries or identity. We were also shamed for our natural proclivities (as mentioned with your example of being excited around the holidays). I really don't see it as "a need for others to see us as unique" so much as we ourselves are on our own quest to indulge in our uniqueness. We are overcompensating so there is a need to identify with and cultivate our uniqueness so that we are reminded of who we are. But whether or not any one else sees us as unique is not really a factor. Only in the sense that we can conflate our self-worth with how others perceive us, but if anything that tends to lead us towards trying to fit in and be like others as opposed to standing out as our unique selves.

[@aaandromeda]

spot on put it into words for me

[@lesnspired1]

Yes.

[@letsreadtextbook1687]

Yeah, it's something non-4s have difficulty understanding, I think. The "myself" is independent to people's perception, but it makes us happy when others see that "myself" and accepts our differences.

[@anthonywritesfantasy]

Obsessed with this comment! 4s get such a bad wrap from most practitioners, but being married to a 4 I always feel like there's something beautiful that gets overlooked. Thank you for your insight.

[@louregal99]

Cotdamn this was said well

[@KangTaemi]

For me, as a 9, my biggest fear is of losing the people I love (both through conflict and through death eg.) and my second fear is of not being true to myself enough by going along with others too much. For me - an INFP 9w1, it's a constant internal battle between wanting to stick to my own values and beliefs and not wanting to fight over them with other people. I feel like I'm on a constant quest for finding out who I am. That's how I originally got interested in typology

[@noeljohnson6747]

I'm also an INFP 9w1 and I could have written this myself. A constant, raging battle between the two in my head that really ignites my anger.

[@cryingpeople98]

Ow I love nines it's beautiful. To support your identity and ideas you can friend a 4

[@lindawells5114]

I understand the “you’re not allowed to have your own feelings”. The message I received as a child was “kids were made to be seen and not heard”. We don’t have a voice because our opinions do not matter

[@sarahbounds9641]

Type 3-- on the childhood message being that it's not ok to have your own feelings or your own identity-- I'm just hearing this and want to dive into more, but on the surface it already brings up memories of parents, ministers, or educators coaching me out of an expressed feeling or need they found to be controversial in some way. "You don't really feel that way... Are you sure you aren't just giving into outside influences... We know you better than that" and then a lot of gifts and opportunities that were "perfect for me" that I would have never chosen for myself and saying so would be ungrateful. The way adults in my childhood spoke to others about me made me feel like my worth was measured by how much credit they could take for my success. For most of my life I misidentified as a 2 because I was conditioned to be such a people pleaser this way. I later realized I don't really enjoy doing labors of love for others as much I like being a loving presence for others-- perhaps the unconditionally loving and accepting presence I wanted.

[@marsipaani81]

You just described me

[@cary236]

I'm really going down a rabbit hole on type 4s here but here's a follow-up to my earlier comments about type 4s being ignored regardless of good or negative emotions (as opposed to being told not to be happy). Here goes .... Type 4: Who I am is wrong, and unworthy of notice. Child’s actions, self, and emotions are felt to be ignored both in positive and negative mental states. Results in disconnection from their own emotions and the emotions of others that lead to disconcordant emotional states from others (laughing at a funeral trope) and chemical and behavioral addictions to self-soothe as other more pro-social options not available or taught. Emotions only noticed when the child is overly “dramatic” so the child learns to amplify their emotions in the hopes they will be noticed and validated. Because they assume they are ignored because they are fundamentally flawed (no action they change makes a difference to whether they are ignored) they fantasize about becoming other people, changing their identity entirely to be worthy or focusing on and enhancing what makes them strange or more noticeable than anyone else (hence the development of unique and special, sometimes over-the-top identities, and occasionally outward identities that are far, far different than their true identities i.e. type 4s morphing into quiet and pleasing type 2s in times of stress.) What do y'all think? I really think the core wound of 4s is being ignored and unnoticed which makes so much sense if you think about how we amplify emotions, try to be unique and different, feel disconnected and a mystery to self if our self was unseen. The sense of ignored could happen for a lot of reasons -- parents addicted, parents fighting, parents depressed, child of a large family with many siblings competing for attention, child of family with another very sick sibling or parent. What I'm trying to say is not to demonize the parent but you could see how kids might be and feel ignored for a lot of reasons.

[@rayadevine7290]

Oh my gosh... Something to think about. Thanks👍

[@easilycultured]

YES! I am a four myself, and that is a perfect understanding.

[@bricksfeathers5423]

@Cary Walski Oh, yes! I relate to both of your comments.

[@blackcat6374]

I was starting to doubt if I was a 4 because of how many of the descriptions are really confusing or just talking about a certain percentage of the 4's, so THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS.

[@kittykatfancy]

From my understanding (my mother mis-typed me as a 4), 4's are essentially the "artists" of the enneagram. They think differently, see the world differently, and tend to feel like they don't fit in. The thing to remember with the enneagram is that your type is not actually what you were born as. It's the type that your ego adopted to cope with being in the world. According to the enneagram, you were born as a type 1 - someone who, at their best, can get their act together and wants to make the world a better place for others. Individualists (type 4's) do that just by being themselves, it's just that that's not always honored or appreciated by a world that wants conformity, which leads to a feeling of isolation and "differentness" in 4's.

[@katiefenn8328]

Hi! Four here :) To answer your question, the basic desire of wanting to be myself stems from wanting to be accepted by others AS myself, and for me, "self-indulgence" has manifested as isolation or too MUCH self, especially if I don't feel people, as you say, "See Me." Because it's "easier" to be alone than it is to be with the wrong people.

[@twlahue]

Got it, thanks.

[@kat-napzzz]

“It’s easier to be alone than to be with the wrong people”... felt that sooooo hard as a four.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Yeah

[@summerblue5258]

I resonate with this too. For me it was “self-indulgence” in the sense of investigating too much about myself. Kind of trying too hard to figure out about myself that I don’t have the energy to maintain the balance between alone time and socializing.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

@@summerblue5258 100%

[@austinsmith5159]

I’m a 5, on the being comfortable in the world I rationalize it as not needing to have comfort in my life and therefore gaining power by the ability to go without that comfort. I find myself almost being prideful of being uncomfortable, or overcoming discomfort. Also having a useless specialization is extremely accurate phrasing for much of a 5s life. It feels as if I pick up useless knowledge left and right but it can be hard for me to push myself to gain knowledge in something that’s useful or can actually help me because I’m not “interested” in it

[@JH-yj7kk]

I'm a 5w4 and I relate to everything you said!

[@HighFiveFriend]

Competent and useful 👍🏼 Spot on!! Sandy 5w4 INTJ

[@Destractoid]

In my mind comfort also implies a loss in awareness. When I'm comfortable I tend to not pay attention at the same level of detail as compared to when I am not comfortable. There is also a difference in my mind between not being comfortable and actually be uncomfortable.

[@kimberlee440]

I'm a 5w4. This is so scarily accurate.

[@kimberlee440]

I lie and tell people I don't need them or the thing because I'm afraid of getting too comfortable and then losing them/it. I find myself making a joke of it.

[@LS-qu7yc]

I’m very much a 4, and at first the childhood message didn’t make sense. I thought about it and when I recalled the things that made me feel the worst, it was one or both parents not wanting me to stick out in the crowd. Don’t be too loud, don’t appear too “different”. Basically, don’t do anything fun. Then it clicked, I wasn’t allowed to be happy. Especially if happy meant standing out and not blending in. Ironically, we stood out as being solemn. It was not a fun childhood, I wasn’t allowed to be happy. Also, self indulgence can simply be indulging in your own sadness. Basically, believing your false beliefs and wallowing.

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

Wow, indulging in sadness

[@rebeccalevy5493]

Your childhood sounds familiar to mine - also a 4. But "same" childhood, and I have brothers who are 2 and 9 and 5.

[@heatherbryant4197]

@@rebeccalevy5493 Interesting. We might have had similar childhoods too; I'm a 5w4 but I'm pretty sure my tritype is 592. Those types all have some marked similarities. 4, 5, and 9 all have the "withdrawn" social style. If you include the 2 (especially with a 1 wing) and a 6-wing for the 5, that also covers the "compliant" group. Perhaps we could say certain parenting styles encourage an odd combination of withdrawing and complying, out of fear, to have their needs met. Notice how none of your siblings ended up as an "assertive" type. Maybe coincidence. Maybe not.

[@mehmetbulut8325]

This actually makes so much sense. My dad always tells me to not do things. He is like "don't touch the railing it is dusty" "don't be loud" "don't question my words" whatever I do I wasn't supposed to do it even if it was a normal thing and I felt shame I didn't know how to be in order to be "proper". Happiness wasn't a thing for him he is always negative, now I don't wanna sound ungrateful but yeah nvm

[@danielthompson2561]

Type 3. For me, the childhood message was more “the identity you have is inferior to those around you” - I think of core aspects of myself I used to feel a great disdain for. I’d also think “if only you were more like x, a little less y” etc etc

[@marsipaani81]

Yeah,I had a similar experience (I’m a 3 as well)

[@gigglesmcdounut723]

Omg I relate to this a lot. I might actually be a 3

[@danielthompson2561]

@@gigglesmcdounut723 One framing of this that has been useful for me is the idea of the “central sin” - a bit gloomy. In the case of the 3 (and this is far from an accusation haha) it’s “Dishonesty”. I have always felt huge pressure to portray something other than the truth (in whatever fashion - sometimes direct lying, more often aversion, false faces, clever wording etc), even in very normal conversations where that pressure should not exist. I was a wreck as a teen to consistently jump through non-existent hoops, and was very much at the bottom of the health spectrum - gaslighting, dishonesty, social manipulations where all just part of a toolkit I used to keep my head above water. There are some videos about what healthy 3s look like - for me, it’s less about embracing a true personality (which they say comes about as a result of health), and more about recognising that all the personas I put on are a true reflection of me in some way - I am multi-faceted, not multi-faced - that’s just who I am, even if at times I would have liked to to not be. I embrace and am open with the fact I can talk to anyone, and chameleon into many situations, and know how to retain a good relationship with anyone if required - even if their views etc don’t align to mine - a lot of people could do with having this skill, and I excel at it. Also, I am certainly a workaholic achiever type - it’s just the goals and methods were far more nefarious when I was younger.

[@gigglesmcdounut723]

@@danielthompson2561 Thanks for sharing. I've learned I am actually a 3, but I'm the self preservation 3. I had a friend who knows more than me send me an article about what SP 3 is and how they are and it hit me hard. It was the first one I cried reading about lol! It was definitely a match.

[@sambrockelsby522]

Type one here... "You are good just the way you are. You are perfect for our family." Man, that one really hit home.

[@kassiopeia1232]

Type 9: I'm not sure if "fragmentation" means this, but feeling torn apart is what I perceive when I'm really stressed out, be it at work, not knowing where to start and getting all lethargic and zoning out, be it at home, when everyone wants me to do something and it feels like they're all tearing at me, tearing me to bits and pieces and I can't oblige... this is where I numb myself with KZbin and chocolate.

[@str4wberri]

As a fellow 9, “fragmentation” really resonated with the experience of constantly putting on different personas to suit the expectations and needs/desires of others (be it friends or family). As a result, I lose a small piece of the ‘real me’ in the process, like a fragment, until eventually I lose all of me and don’t know who I am. Not knowing who I am ultimately disturbs my inner peace as a 9. Hope that helped!! :-)

[@str4wberri]

Also, I totally resonate with your sentiment of wanting to escape internal conflict with youtube!! It’s 5am and I haven’t started a report that’s due in 4 hours yet here I am watching youtube D:

[@kassiopeia1232]

@@str4wberri Reading your description of "fragmentation" reminds me of type 3 behaviour. At the moment I'm reading into the tritype concept. Very interesting! My second to dominant type is 4w3 so I know exactly what you mean. And being aware of this behaviour makes me think this is more of a flavour (aka wing) than a type itself.

[@noeljohnson6747]

OOOF, the idea of everyone wanting me to do something or THINK something and pulling me in several different directions, with seemingly no compromise or middle ground in sight......that triggered my instinct to numb just thinking about it.

[@caitlinlouiseee]

I read the end of this comment whilst reaching for a Freddo - lying on my bed watching KZbin 🙈🙈🙈

[@randycrago1359]

I am a type 9. As a child I was very controlled by my mother and siblings and not allowed to have my own likes or opinions. My mom would not even let me choose my own clothes, hairstyle, etc and I was basically bossed around my whole life. My siblings were verbally and physically abusive to me and my mom never defended me. There was constant fighting between my siblings and between my siblings and Mom as well. I believe that is why I crave peace so much. I also feel like I lost or never had a normal ego (being fragmented?) because of the domineering people I grew up with. In my case, I suppose I felt like had to merge with them to survive, to be as unnoticeable I could be. I am forty years old now and I have been completely detached from my family for three years now. I have been working hard on getting to know myself and building the life I want.

[@shelleywinters6763]

I can see how that family environment would cause you to be a 9. I guess you learned to make yourself invisible, so you didn't attract any negative reactions. I could imagine society takes a lot from 9s and 9s will let them take it to keep the peace. I try to avoid negative reactions, or at least I did. Now I'm letting go of that and seeing how I handle people pushing back. It's a new adventure. Sounds like you are in a good place to discover yourself, to allow yourself to be seen and still feel at peace.

[@MrFireman164]

Yes abusive mom no father, became a pleaser to stay on her good side, funny how they say you are born with the number you are but I’m not so sure, pretty sure I was made into a 9w1 with lots of anger issues.

[@catherinewood8332]

I cant tell if i am 9 or 6. I dont know why either.

[@amelian9677]

I am sorry for what you went through and wish you well in creating the life you deserve!

[@Moheroine]

Wish u best ❤

[@Am-js1ue]

I think as enneagram 3 the Message was More like A person like you don't deserve Love & things because you are you & you should be ashamed of yourself. So it's to prove I'm better than Everyone & I'm Worthy.

[@leahboynton1280]

As a 6 I needed to hear you are capable of handling things even when things go wrong or don't work out the way you expect. You have strong problem solving skills that will get you through.

[@peterdentice5725]

a part of 9 fragmentation issues is about not being able to be yourself as a whole. "You can't hurt me, if you can't reach all of me." You could be in one group where it's ok to be yourself, but parts A, B, and C of your personality would go against the grain of the group. Then another group could be all about A, B, and C, but X, Y, and Z is frowned upon. It's about felling comfortable with being yourself. A place where you don't need to acquiesce by stifling parts of yourself. Not wanting to live a life you didn't live through restricting ones own actions taken. Being too concerned about the actions we take in the present to then figure out later that we care more about the actions we didn't take.

[@wynstansmom829]

Hi, Peter Dentice. do you worry about 'being lost'? are you a 9? This is the first video I have watched on this channel and Dr. Tom LaHue has a very good take on the Fives. 19:50ish "If you know one of those people" rofl, I am always everyone's Phone a Friend choice for trivia shows. I would not like being on television but I appreciate the thought. and as for what we (I) want to hear, "It's okay with you being here"... Si-gh

[@heatherbryant4197]

@@wynstansmom829 Hi Wynstan's Mom! Fancy seeing you here.

[@genasseeceline]

@@wynstansmom829 haha! that's awesome

[@genasseeceline]

This is true!! I'm a 9. I'm always friendly, but guarded from things about myself that I truly care about or am truly embarrassed about.

[@kassidy9282]

As a five, I've seen one other word for our basic fear - helpless. Incapable is decently similar, but for me helpless is where it's really at. The 'it's not okay to be too comfortable' took a minute or so of thought, but then it made sense. For me, I suppose, it means that you always have to be cautious and you can't get too close to anyone. 'You are not a problem' hits hard for me and it was absolutely something I needed to hear.

[@andreascott8150]

Me too. When he said "You are not a problem" it hit me that I will purposefully not ask questions or for help because I don't want to bother anyone, be a problem, or be seen as not knowledgeable or competent.

[@veritas1177]

I wonder if this word is part of the emotional vocabulary....Burden. not wanting to be a Burden. Being a Burden to others or not wanting to feel like you're a burden. To be useful, capable, competent.

[@lovebug69ism]

Speaking as a 6, I would say the message that “you are safe” is important because our fight/flight/freeze response is firing all the time, even when there isn’t a real threat. Telling your kids they are safe shouldn’t send the message that they never need to be cautious, but rather that they don’t have to be worried ALL the time. Usually the problem is inside our head and we just need a reminder that everything is fine and we are secure in our relationships and group status. Consequently in my experience the “attachment to beliefs” speaks more to the thoughts inside my head versus allegiance to a group or philosophy as you suggested.

[@veritas1177]

Thank you for this, I have two family members who are or have wings in 6 and yes! They do worry and it's uncanny because when I talk logic with them or say it's going to be ok. They calm. Like they're so relieved to know it's just a worry. They do also have that waiting for another shoe to drop sense, and one of them finds a self regulating type of sense of safety in a group, of friends, work. They are very loyal to it.

[@sc1592]

As a four, the childhood message doesn’t really make sense to me but the deterioration into self-indulgence definitely does. I spend so much time trying to express my true, authentic self that sometimes I’ll say “oh, I’m not feeling folding laundry today so I’m not going to do it” or “wow, this very expensive hufflepuf banner is so me! I have to buy it!” etc. It could even be something like “I stubbed my toe and then starbucks was out of my drink and now my favorite parking spot is taken? It’s just a bad day. Everything that happens today will be bad and I will sulk in my bad day feelings” even if good things start happening. My determination to only be or do what I believe is true about myself turns into not using any wise decision making skills but rather, just indulging in what I think I want.

[@allisonrussell5160]

Same

[@heatherbryant4197]

I'm a 5w4 but I grew up with parental-figures who were attached to victimhood & martyrdom and definitely (implicitly) delivered the message that it was preferable to be in turmoil and not okay to be happy. People who suffered (especially for the sake of other(s), no matter how misguided or self-sabotaging), were glorified and put on a pedestal (in retrospect, perhaps the matyrdom/selfless focus was a bit of the disintegration towards 2 as well). People who were happy were critiqued as being naive, in denial, or reckless and hedonistic, perhaps mindlessly self-indulgent. And importantly, I got the message that if I didn't have "real" problems then I didn't need any help or attention. Those who are worst off are most in-need, which indirectly encourages one to place themselves in bad predicaments to receive (love, time, attention, understanding, anything). Btw, by "self-indulgent," I think the authors mean a kind of "selfish" egocentirism in which one is _so_ focused on their identity and so wrapped up in their own feelings that they are indulging themselves in thoughts about themselves to the detriment of others around or the world at large, whom they should arguably also take into account. When 4s are upset, they can be really sulky and self-pitying in a way that seems to neglect the universality of suffering as a human condition. They really inhabit that mood and wallow in it. It can come across as selfish, or forgetting that they are not the only ones who feel sad or melancholy, forgetting that others have it worse off than them and perhaps they should be grateful for what they have. They can also indulge themselves in a self-ascribed victim label to the extent that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they make themselves victims, or don't stop it from happening so they can reinforce their sense of identity in their minds. Indulging in the self-pity may also cause an unhealthy 4 to blind themselves to the ways in which they might hurt others. Maybe this sounds harsh, but I say this from a place of relating to some of these tendencies myself. The 5 message does resonate with me, but it's also not what I might immediately intuit or expect. The message that "it's not okay to feel too comfortable," to me, seems to combine the drive towards 8-like growth in challenging themselves & internal message to not be weak, with the 7's acknowledgment of chaos and endless possibilities, with the 4-wing's masochism, and 6-wing's fear of the unknown and security being interrupted. I do see the universe as a clusterfuck of chaos that humans try to convince themselves they have some control over. I frequently envision myself in post-apocalyptic scenarios. We do, on some level, fear what might happen in the future, so we collect as much knowledge as possible (and anything else) that we may or may not need some day to prepare, to stow it away for a rainy day. And, unlike the 6 who responds by trying to create a reliable support network and structure to guarantee security, we deprive ourselves of want for anything at all, because if we don't need anything from anyone, whether that be knowledge or creature comforts or material things in life or even friends, we guarantee our survival... Don't get too comfortable, because it could all be ripped away from you at any moment, and it's better if you aren't attached to the things you might have to go without. Want for nothing and suffer not. Many 5s I've talked with seem attracted to the philosophy of Stoicism. And I suspect they had a childhood marked by deprivation. I would actually think the 5 message would be something along the lines of "You can't rely on anyone for anything." My whole life people let me down, lied to me, broke their promises, betrayed my trust, and overall sent the message (through their actions) that humans are unreliable and cannot be counted on for anything. Even if they're your parents. So you should just learn to expect nothing and take care of yourself. Because if you don't, no one else will. Herein lies the 5's fierce sense of independence. And I actually kinda see the 5's core fear as dependence on others. Maybe this is just a 5w4 thing, but that works as a response to both the 4 and 5 message; to the 4 message, it's like, "You don't want to help me unless I'm on the verge of death? Or unless I'm the biggest victim? Fine then, I don't want your help anyway!" Edit: Whoah, I wrote the above paragraph before you got to the 7 part! But what I said about 5s sounds just like what you said about 7s... Do you think this comes from the disintegration of 5s to 7 under stress? (I'm pretty sure I'm not a 7) "You are wanted" also resonates. I might also word it as "your presence is not a burden." I think this one will resonate more with type 5 INTPs & ISTPs because of inferior Fe. The instinctive reaction is assuming we aren't wanted and responding in kind with "Fine, I don't need you. I'll be fine all by myself." And with INTPs especially, I think there's also a correlation between Si child and that 5 drive towards self-imposed discomfort -- a kind of asceticism. Ti+Si is also the perfect combo for memorizing a storehouse of useless trivia. Btw, "useless specialization" LOL yes. One of my specializations is identifying species of spiders... as a hobby. Say no more. I do also know all the words to pretty much any classic rock song, and even jingles from commercials that were on TV 30 years ago when I was a kid! But that's not really by choice ... or so I think? 🤔

[@user-hp2pp9iu9e]

Re: five. Yes, immediately makes sense. Had a mother who always wanted you to be doing, fixing, or cleaning something. If you’re relaxing, something’s wrong.

[@shelleywinters6763]

These childhood messages bring back memories of how I was treated by my parents, the hidden and sometimes not hidden attitude they conveyed to me. My father told me I was useless. So the message for 5 resonated. My father used my emotions as a weapon, so showing weakness was not safe. He would laugh if I failed at something, so making mistakes was not safe around him. So the 1 message resonated with me. My mother didn't want to talk to me as a child and as an adult, she used to throw me out of the house, get me from under her feet. Normally mothers teach their daughters how to cook, do things together. Not my mother. So the 7 thing of missing out on something resonates. All of it put together sends a message, whatever it is I am, I'm not good enough, I have no value, nobody wants me around and I'll never amount to anything, I'll never achieve anything, or hold down a relationship, or suceed in any way ever. Also, if I wanted something, tough, nobody cares what you want. So that was my start in life, I was left to fend for myself and bring myself up and figure out some kind of path for myself and motivation and self worth and value and purpose and love and care. Everything loving families give to their children, unconditionally, was not present. And then society joined in, reinforcing those messages. So no mentors, no support, no compassion or kindness. It's like the whole world and everyone I cared about just put me in a box and left me on the shelf to gather dust. I'm amazed that with such a bad start I managed to come this far. my mother in law said I am an under achiever. That's actually a compliment, because I have suceeded in many areas, including growth. The world and my family expected nothing from me. I expected nothing. But I still did some stuff and overcame a lot of obsticles. So thank you for reminding me of how far I have come, it's really quite remarkable.

[@mehmetbulut8325]

I'm proud of how far you came. Keep going

[@annikalapudas9742]

From my 4 perspective: I think as a child I got the message that the only way to be worth something was to be special in one way or another - especially smart, talented, pretty, good or even especially sad. If I wasn't special in someway I was ignored, replaceable. But also it has never been enough to just seem special - that's where the need for authenticity comes in - I needed to truly be that, I needed my true authentic self to be meaningful (I have probably connected being special = being meaningful) because if I was faking I would know it and that would mean I was in my core still meaningless/worthless. So my guess for what the 4's "search for identity" means (which is certainly a very 4 thing) is that one needs to figure out who they are first before being able to find out if the person they are is meaningful/worth anything. I hope these ponderings were of some use and touched the 4 experience.

[@lonefaolan6042]

I can relate to your 4 perspective so much. I got that same message growing up. Thank you for that. (I am a 4w5, INFP)

[@shelleywinters6763]

I've tried on every personality of the enneogram but the 1 and 6. Then someone gave me the be the best peach quote. I got it, I've been tying to be a bannana, an apple, a strawberry, but I was 2nd rate at that, I was best being a peach. Maybe I didn't like being a peach, but learning to be the best peach I could be, would always be better than trying to be a second rate banana. 🙃 I like peaches now.

[@allisontyrrell2560]

I'm a one and this rang true. My parents divorced when I was 6. I remember being uncomfortable when they argued or I sensed the tension. Because they didn't say much or acted mad (around me) I thought I did something wrong. My mom then met and married an abusive alcoholic. Again, not understanding but seeing so much anger (now I know it was way distorted) but as a young child I remember being yelled at and bad things happening when I even did the dishes wrong (AT 7YRS OLD). Eventually we moved in with my grandparents and I remember odd behaviors by my my grandma. What stands out is she would wipe down the shower and bathroom after we used it. (She was probably a perfectionist too). But in my eyes I thought I was somehow bad or 'dirty.' These confirmations that I was defective or bad (in my head) were proven true over and over. In school I was bullied and rejected (I was also overweight). Long story short, it wasn't until just last year learning about the enneagram did I finally understand things. Gosh, how I wish this was learned earlier.

[@DreamQuillRose]

They really ought to teach this in school. Like, in elementary school.

[@Moheroine]

❤❤❤❤❤ I love type one's

[@finding_meeno]

I'm a type four and I read/heard something somewhere that I believe will make the self indulgence thing make more sense. As I'm sure you know, one thing that many fours experience is feeling flawed: everyone has something we don't, and our desire to find ourselves stems from this feeling. When we reach a point to where we can't see ourselves finding this "missing thing" (that, keep in mind, we feel everyone else has) we compensate by indulging in things we want/think we deserve since we'd already been dealt a (perceived) poor hand.

[@shelleywinters6763]

The concensous when I was growing up was that I WAS flawed. It wasn't in my head. People would go out of their way to tell me what they thought of me. Some would play jokes and games on me at my expense. I remember one game where someone laughed at me for believing what they had just told me. Looking back, that's a pretty stupid lesson they wanted to teach me. Hey look she trusts people at their word! haha Multiply that by a couple of decades and you have to start wondering what the hell is going on? Here''s another one in my 20s at a club, someone thought I was rediculous for smiling a lot and immitated me smiling. Strange lesson, don't be cheerful around me, it's stupid. I have millions of experiences like these. Nothing I do seems to be right. I see other people doing similar or even the same things, they are not ridiculed or taken to task for it. shrugs

[@veritas1177]

@shelleywinters omg yes! I cannot begin to tell you how many y times I was made fun of for innocence, happiness, joy, naivety, gullibility and the like. I'd make something awesome, get made fun of, I'd be happy, they'd try to toughen me up.

[@mikaylawells3962]

I'm a 5. The "not be comfortable" I can't recall a time when I would have ever be given that message as such. But being comfortable definitely causes some anxiety within me. Which then leads to the 'frantic escapism' described in as 7s which I thought was interesting. So while it may not be something I ever got told, it definitely is something I feel at my core for whatever reason. The what I needed to hear really struck a nerve I didn't know I had too 😅

[@marywilliams8831]

I think I'm a 5. I compared the message heard to the message needed to have been heard. Maybe the message that it's not OK to be too comfortable in the world is that I could become a problem/my presence here could become a problem at any time/out of nowhere. I can't relax because I need to be careful that I don't become a problem. I have to figure out a way to make sure I don't become a problem. If it's OK and not a problem that I'm here, I can relax and focus on the positive interests I have that will help me be competent. Off top of my head. 😊

[@perfectcirq]

3's - it's not okay to have your own feelings - if your mother / parent is a narcissist - you are not allowed to have any feelings that go against the parent or you are attacked and seen as the enemy - and ALLLLLLLLLL your life, your mother insists you think, act and Feel in accordance and alignment with Her/Them - or you will have the fight of your life on your hands - just to be your own person. These children and adults struggle to even find and know who they are and what they feel because it's never been safe for them to be true to them selves. Some children fight their whole life and they are labeled and look to the outside world to be the "difficult" child.

[@taylorfisher3944]

8w9 INTP When I was a kid I learned that you can't depend on anyone for anything. Also it's better not to get your hopes up for something happening that way you are less disappointed when it doesn't.

[@DreamQuillRose]

I'm actively trying to rekindle some of that excitement I remember from being a kid, like, the anticipation right before a holiday. How to do that, though...? Well, one way is to be the one to make good things happen and thus make it easier for others to join you. Like, weekly movie nights, for example. I've discovered that happiness is easier to achieve on a schedule, ironic as that is, lol.

[@icanrelate]

100%

[@serenereader]

I'm a 6w5 INFP and I think the same way 😔

[@isa-manuelaalbrecht2951]

Thats' ENFJ coz intp are 5/4😅

[@sechale]

Yes that’s it for type 3 as a 3w4. At 11:20-message is it’s not ok to be who you are, you need to be a better version or something altogether different

[@carriebradon2807]

As a 6, I feel like what I needed to hear was “I will do everything I can to keep you safe.”

[@KangTaemi]

1 - 2:28 2 - 6:26 3 - 9:56 4 - 12:56 5 - 16:30 6 - 20:52 7 - 24:46 8 - 27:29 9 - 29:20

[@pedroturcios9591]

For three's, I think that identity=own feelings and what they value, so a three never had someone who valued what they felt or that valued it positively, so everyone has told them or showed them indirectly that no one cares abt what they feel and what they are, they only care abt what they do, in some way, so they decide to over-achieve to find a value for themselves through the eyes of others, "if I achieve all this, I will be praised and acknoledged type of logic", so they can feel that they deserve something, they can feel that they are worth something, this is how it seems to be for me

[@macoeur1122]

Type 5 here...I'm kind of cracking myself up because, before I even watched this video, I went through and marked the beginning of each type. I figured this would be "useful" (for both myself and others) :) Yes I can feel that message "it's not o.k. for you to be too comfortable in the world" As the youngest of three girls, the oldest of which, I believe, is a Type 2 and was always taking care of my middle sister and me, I started out feeling there was little I needed or was expected or even allowed to do for myself...and then of course eventually my sisters resentment kicked in and then came the message that it's not o.k. to be too comfortable...so my own resentment then kicked in (I never asked for everything to be done for me!) From my perspective, I thought I was "letting" my sister take the "mother hen" role...she seemed to "need" something from it....So when I started getting slammed with the "it's not o.k. to be too comfortable, my OWN resentment kicked in and my motivation became proving that I was capable/competent/useful...but because my sister was grappling with her own "2ness" she remained torn between needing to "caretake" me and my other sister in order to feel love and approval from our Mom and at the same time resenting me instead of resenting feeling that she had to "earn" our Mom's approval. Of course I didn't understand any of this at the time...But I do remember feeling a kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't feeling regarding "usefulness"....My sister still needed to be needed and also seemed to resent that fact. I was in this constant push and pull, so my dilemna became how to show I wasn't incompetent without cutting off what I could "feel" was her lifeline... Yes quite dysfunctional, I know...Something akin to MSPB, but it is what it is.

[@guspardo1]

I'm a 5. My basic fear is that i'm on my own. No one will help me so i need to make sure i have all the skills needed to succeed. I also know well a 3. His father was an amazing person that died when my friend was young. He has spent most of his life trying to be that perfect person that, in his mind, his father was. That is the image he always compares himself against as it would be the only good way of being.

[@cary236]

Hey, Tom -- appreciate your videos! I have to say that I disagree with your take on type 4s. For the feeling types, I feel like the messages they get are: type 2.) My emotions are wrong, type 3.) My actions are wrong, type 4.) I am wrong. As an SP 4, I have always been highly functional. I never got any encouragement not to be happy. Where I think my 4 comes from is from my parents ignoring me as a kid. Hear me out on this ... They didn't praise or criticize me, I was just left alone regardless of how much I achieved (would have led to type 3 if they cared about that), or what I felt (would have led to type 2 if my seeming happy pleased them). Because nothing I did seem to matter for better or worse, I felt profoundly powerless, and internalized that powerlessness as "I am wrong" inherently. Now I'm not saying that all type 4s were actually ignored, I think I'm a pretty extreme case of "pure" emotional neglect. But I'm curious if you started asking your type 4 clients if they felt ignored when they were a kid and if they felt powerless to affect the world around them with anything less than total histrionics (which might explain sexual and social 4s versus me, SP 4 who learned to be stoic about needs).

[@twlahue]

Thanks, this is a really helpful insight.

[@annikalapudas9742]

I have to say I agree with this (a 4 myself too).

[@LS-qu7yc]

Yeah I agree, I was neglected as well. In conjunction with that whole “don’t have fun/be happy” message. I think these childhood messages are just extremely basic to cover every situation within the number type

[@ottoharcrow9327]

yes absolutely I agree with this as a 4w5. This is super helpful. The emotional disconnect by not receiving attention, or validation of emotion really applies. Although i don’t necessarily see a common fundamental problem with fours feeling as if “I am wrong.” From what i’ve experienced and seen from other fours, it’s more of a longing for significance, or wishing to be seen and accepted as our “true self”

[@cary236]

@@ottoharcrow9327 You know, that's interesting Otto. I wonder if the statement is better, "I am invisible", which makes sense because enneagram type 1's statement seems naturally to be, "I am wrong" as they are the perfectionists.

[@jmcguire8511]

Recently found this channel and finding it really insightful.

[@sarahschmitt2091]

I'm a three, I didn't feel like I was aloud to be myself. I felt like I was never 'winning' my parents approval or acceptance. So when I got upset no one understood and told me to get over it. I didn't feel like I was aloud to feel my feelings or that it was not right. And over time I tried to become and feel and do whatever the people around me told me was good.

[@sarahschmitt2091]

Which became being an achiever and a go getter! Thankfully I've grown alot since then!

[@pernillatorro2812]

About 4 and 5, I does make sense! And wow, it hurts. I believe I am a 4w5. I was thinking that I was a 5w4 but when I learned about the subtype of the self preservation 4 it was very clear that I am a 4. I grew up with what I believe is a mum who is a very unhealthy 2, possibly even has histrionic personality disorder. She made me feel that it was not okay to be functional (without her). It's not okay to be happy (if it's not about her, because of her or with her). Until this day, I feel that I can't connect with others, be comfortable and laugh together with another person if she is in the same room. So maybe anyone who grew up with an adult who was jealous of your happiness can relate to this. She also made me feel incapable, by questioning my every move, so that I fear being incapable and not managing on my own. I have healed a lot, but around her I still feel that everything I do is wrong or not good enough. I understand why this leads to Self-indulgence, because we are always looking for happiness. We weren't allowed to be happy, so it's an ongoing search. And I have always been fighting to be competent and independent, my own person, to disconnect from her possessiveness. Maybe this makes sense for someone else.

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

Yes, 3's are not allowed to have an identity bc it's just embodying a cultural ideal, not the individual's true identity, I'd say.

[@StrengthCoachFelix]

I'm a 5 and I can hear my parents saying over and over again "money doesn't grow on trees" so I can understand the not ok to be comfortable in the world

[@audreykuczka4081]

Your channel has improved my relationship with myself and the people around me, specifically my husband, so well. Thank you for your videos.

[@m.e.8244]

As a four, I had so many experiences in life, where I was excited and happy about something, and then someone from my family would tell me either that I'm acting weird or stupid, which caused me to feel empty and sad. I didn't know it's that common among fours.

[@laurasumms9227]

This is awesome. Im a 9 and 'what they need to hear' is so spot on. Thinking about it, i can see the common thread in many many many experiences things ive been through and felt bad about. So, thank you!! I have a few thoughts about the other types that you asked for feedback about ( im a 9 haha, so i resonate with almost every other type of course. Also as as 9 speaking my view is an important excercise in SHOWING UP, so for what its worth...) Type 3- im seeing it like this- 3 feels like they have no inherent value, value does not reside in them, therefore their individuality is invalid. They feel like they must identify the valuable- which lives outside themselves-, and go be that.

[@samirahtss]

As a 4 I personally don't even know who I am anymore. As a child I wasn't able to develop an identity because I have always been made guilty and ashamed of myself. No matter what I did or said, I got criticized. As a coping mechanism I learned to shut down, not to be myself but rather adapted ways of behaving and acting that were accepted because I just wanted to be accepted by others (with others I mean mostly my family members) They have always made me feel like something is wrong with me, like I'm not worthy and I don't belong here. So I started doing things that would have granted me their acceptance (did well at school because I wanted to feel like my presence was appreciated) I was also quite egoistic (I wouldn't like to share my stuff with others) , would get angry very easily and cry at the smallest criticism someone would give me. They made me feel ashamed of these personality traits of mine without understanding that the reason I behaved that way was because they made me behave that way.. Now I'm turning 19 in a few days and nothing much has changed. I struggle with having an authentic personality and often feel like nothing is ever going to change, that I will always stay this way. I struggle with building connections with others, I leave them before they leave me, I withdraw from others not only as a way to recharge my social batteries but because I am afraid of getting too closed, getting vulnerable, showing parts of myself that I loathe. I genuinely don't know how to act, I have to mentally prepare myself for conversations because I am afraid people will think that I'm awkward and pathetic. I feel uncomfortable whenever I get compliments and if someone shows interest in me. I don't really believe in myself; I am aware of my abilities but focus more on what I can't do rather than focusing on my capacities. I just wish someone would have told me that they accepted me for who I was, that I don't have to change myself and that I didn't do anything wrong. Unfortunately no one ever did. No one knew what was really going on, I faked the happy and outgoing child because no one would have understood me anyways. But still life moves on. This part of my past used to trigger me a lot but the wounds are no longer aching, they have left scars but I don't like dwelling on them too much.

[@anthonywritesfantasy]

As a 9, fragmentation is actually a great word. I want the world to work like an elegant machine, everything seeing everything else, everyone working together. I'm afraid for anyone not to like me, which in my 20s became really apparent to me, and was really hard for me to wrestle with. Losing friends out of silly fights is very, very painful for me, heartbreaking in fact. And that fragmentation of close relationships sort of reinforced my passiveness: "Look, we fought and now they're not my friends anymore. So I should just never disagree again." It looks ridiculous typed out, but it's a real feeling I battle with.

[@sourgrapes7482]

As a 5, your assumption of the message resonated with me more than the "actual" one

[@IAmThanSolo]

I’m a 4, and I literally wrote a song called Crappy Holidays where each verse is about a different holiday and the melancholy feelings and experiences I’ve had, and the chorus for each one is “It’s [insert holiday here] time, no surprise…” That might be the most 4 thing I’ve ever done, lol

[@parkerworley1477]

As a type four I remember my younger self thinking and feeling a need to stand out and do things to obtain a personality I think this was around the time as a kid I started to realize what death was and my young imagination was like well I can't die just being boring or regular boy no ones gonna have anything to say about me if I do. I think it also came from a standpoint of competition amongst other kids my age and how much attention I could get in a way if that makes sense. The competitiveness to stand out amongst my friends was what it is I think. I agree with your take on holidays too I used to not like to show so much joy/holiday cheer on holidays. I think I was overwhelmed a bit or something and I would find myself thinking more about the holidays past or something that intrigued me about it. I would love to hear more about this topic with 4's.

[@artistocracy]

My mother actually told me when I was just entering teenage years: No one wants to hear your opinion. Later she told me: If it were't for you my life would have been different. And I am the midle child of 3 so I couldn't understand that but I did walk out of her life for 25 years because of that statement, and came back in her old age when she was 96 for her last 3 years of life. I'm 9w8 and still sometimes struggle to give my opinion but I have matured and am happy with who and how I am, and do give my opinion easily.

[@andreeadobre3190]

Spot on for 8. Ouch. I remember you said in another video you imagine the 8 as holding a baby with one arm and a switchblade in the other hand. Thing is, that protected baby has got to be me first, only then when I'm safe I can have the resources to protect others.

[@icanrelate]

The switchblade thing reminds me of carrying with various weapons before lol from mace to a box cutter...I live in NYC. I'm an 8w9.

[@febrasko]

As a 5, the actual childhood message didn't trigger anything specific, but the distortion of 'useless specialization' immediately stung. We're praised for our minds and our capacity to master subjects in ways that other types may be less inclined to do, which gives us an advantage in life. So why am I not using this to do something actually useful and productive instead of accumulating trivial knowledge. I think my 4 wing comes out when I'm comparing myself to other people and thinking "they can do this thing that I can't, they are competent in life and I'm not".

[@Swoldridge]

I'm a 5w4 and both of those really hit the nail right on the head.

[@kimberlee440]

Same.

[@RebeccaLStamm]

Hi Dr. Tom! :) As a four, the indulgence part rings true for me. I can get wallow-y in my head, ruminate, gorge on melancholy, etc. Self-indulgence of “I am special” but said in a defensive way, not because it’s true we are all special. Holidays were always weird for me but I never knew why-it wasn’t my parents. It was like brownies mixed with walnuts sprinkled throughout. The brownie being joy but the walnuts being melancholy. I think because holidays bring a lot of social events/gatherings/situations where our feeling different gets a little more light shed on it. We want every day to be a day to connect deeply with others, and we see holidays as people having a great time which we love, but do they really dig deep into the relationships on a day to day basis? Holidays show us that we as fours really operate differently, so we feel, than most people.

[@ThePastAnalysis]

Great video! I'm a 1w2 sp/sx and the one childhood message resonates with me a lot. My parents unintentionally sent this message and they've tried to reverse the damage countless times telling me that it is okay to make mistakes, but it's hard for me to accept. They implemented an honor roll allowance for my older brother, eldest sister, and I if we did really well in school. Early on, I didn't really care about the honor roll. I was just very good in school, but eventually I began to become attached to being right. My siblings would always tell me how annoyed they were that I was such a natural and it soon stuck. My attachment to being right got so bad that I vividly remember sobbing my eyes out as a kid as a result of a light punishment. My parents had something they called a "Work Camp" and if we ever did anything bad we'd have to do a certain number of hour of chores around the house before playing. I hated being punished, rarely got punished, and my sentences were usually light, but one time I was sentenced to an hour of cleaning my bookshelf. I was sobbing my eyes out throughout the whole thing to the point that my parents eventually dropped the remainder of my sentence. This just goes to show you can have no idea what your parenting might do on a child. I'm happy to learn about all this though over the past week as I was trying to ignore that this inner critic of mine was a problem. Now that I know, I can find ways to improve and lessen the burden on myself. :D

[@anthonywritesfantasy]

Another note as a 9: I think my big childhood message, personally, was that conflict leads to being alone. To being abandoned. And conflict also leads to being uncomfortable.

[@Fatmaahmed-qs9nl]

as a 4w5 when I was young, I was really childish and very enthusiastic, and I loved to draw and I loved sharing those drawings with my father, but when I would go to him with a drawing, he would scold me severely and tell me, “Is this what you are doing instead of studying your lessons?” And sometimes I would go to him and have achieved something big. I think it would make him happy, but he scolds me for some old mistake. This has made me more withdrawn into myself and when I am happy, I feel somewhat anxious about whether this joy will last. What strong blow is waiting for me to destroy my joy ?

[@laurennaomi_]

Can’t wait to watch this!!!

[@aodhanodonnell2148]

"You're not allowed to have your own feelings or identity" spot on, I've been told I am type 3 but that totally confirms it, as a point of reference the other characteristics of a 3 are natural, I think delayed gratification is a reasonable ethos, I succeed sometimes and I fail too but I try for sure

[@UrbanArtCentral]

y sister is a 9 Growing up I always felt that she has a desire to ''merge' with others and completely blend in their union with others going with the flow with every decision others make. But as an adult she is now assertive (I can see she is putting in the effort to do that as it does not come naturally She is in her 30s now

[@kimberlee440]

Ouch. This stings. I'm a 5w4. When I was a child my dad literally said, "You can't run from the problem when you are the problem." I pull away from people because I'm always afraid of being seen as a burden.

[@milanka882]

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with the narrative that our entire personality is built around a "childhood message", especially in light of recent experiences I have had with my own health and genetics. With my own recent genetic and health journey, I feel it is now time to say these things that I have been thinking for months. I should also say in advance that I am not the world's best speller, so please bare with my bad spelling. This is a narrative that was incredibly popular during the 80's and 90's, and I personally believe it came about as professionals were trying to distance themselves from the negative connotations and consequences of 19th century eugenics movements. I totally understand this motivation. However, we are now well into the 24st century. As such, there have been huge knowledge gains in so many fields such as our understanding of neuroscience, genetics, endocrinology, epigenetics, and of course brain imaging technology has become so much more advanced since the 90's. I'm saying this because this increased knowledge is increasingly debunking the idea that our "childhood wounds", "childhood messages", or just childhood experiences generally are entirely responsible for the forming of our personality. In fact, it's now understood that roughly 60% of our personality is in fact heritable, and gifted to us at conception. There are about 23000 genes in the human genome, and not only do they encode for our obvious psychical appearance, but they also encode for things such as our hormonal regulation and levels, nutrient processing, neurotransmitters (brain chemicals... dopamine, oxitosin, melotonin, serotonin etc.), the receptors for said chemicals and hormones... the list goes on and on. And all these hormones and brain chemicals, their amounts, how many receptors any given individual may have for any given hormone/neurotransmitter, all translate into behaviours as the person grows and matures. For example... a person may have normal levels of dopamine for example, but not enough receptors in the brain to receive this chemical. That is encoded by inherited genes. Needless to say this person's ability to experience a "dopamine hit" is going to be impaired. And so, in order to compensate, this person may seek intense experiences, go the "hole hog" in life, and even seek intensity in relationships etc.. This person will manifest a massive drive and determination in whatever they pursue in life, and may be very self confident, assertive and even dominant. Sound like any particular type on the Enneagram? I know of an 8 in this boat. And that's just the heritable 60% of your personality. Then there is the 40% "nurture", which starts in the womb, and is shaped by every physical, emotional, spiritual and mete-physical environment and experience that person encounters throughout a lifetime, which is constantly determining which genes are and are not being expressed. "childhood wounds" may influence the personality development, but by no means are they responsible for the entirety of personality development or development of core Enneagram types. Respectfully, I think it's time to realise that this view of development of Enneagram types is... to put it diplomatically... outdated. I also think there are a lot of psychologists who push this idea because they are able to attract paying clients who are more likely to "have it together" enough to be able to pay for therapy that they may not necessarily need, but they've been convinced by money hungry psychologists that their average or "normal" childhood experiences are inf fact "wounds". Trust me, most people with serious dysfunction in their childhood and severe childhood wounds often have trouble managing the basics of life such as keeping a roof over their head, and therefore are in no position to pay for therapy. Even countries with universal health care systems are notoriously bad and funding proper psychological mental health services. So if you've stuck with me this far, sorry for the novel. With my own recent genetic and health journey, I feel it is now time to say these things that I have been thinking for months. Thanks for making it this far.

[@Tass1919]

Wow, that was really great info and I appreciate your thoughts. I see there aren’t many comments. I think when finances come into play there’s an issue, plus ppl aren’t ready to hear till they have ears to hear

[@anyagodwin5197]

Thank you so much for this. I have been studying the any a gram here in New Zealand for about six or seven years.. I am a type 4W3. I thought I would just add something about the deterioration of the type four. “Deteriorates into a need to be special, unique, original, and can become self absorbed so as to be reassured we exist and won’t get lost. Make sure they see us coming“. And about the basic fear: Being without an identity, lost from ourselves , not knowing who we are and a fear of being that which someone else wants us to be. I.e.: A narcissistic extension of a parent or sibling. I enjoy watching your videos thanks for everything I’ve learnt wishing you well.

[@saradallapalma1997]

I recently came to realization I might be a type 1. While I listen to the type 1 part of this video I related so much, and then I started crying because that was really what I needed to hear not just in my childhood but even now.

[@daniellthornton4218]

I don’t think any 6s go along with a belief system or group without questioning it. Just because we stay doesn’t mean we haven’t questioned it, it just means we are afraid to be without it. I’m a SX 6 and this would be me in a relationship.

[@nomadicmind639]

Type 1 2:28 Type 2 6:26 Type 3 9:56 Type 4 12:56 Type 5 16:30 Type 6 20:52 Type 7 24:46 Type 8 27:29 Type 9 29:19

[@marsipaani81]

I’m a type three and that is exactly what is my core childhood message (especially from my father who is trigged by my sixness) and I’m still trying to live to my dad’s expectations. That’s my determination of “success”

[@jespersvane1939]

Self indulgance is spot on! Feelings of missing out and overendulging, cause i didnt get My share back then.

[@ANDROMEDAtheartist]

I think as a type 4 there's a desire to understand myself and that translates into self-indulgence sometimes. Just think about the wealth of knowledge and depth of emotion we would find if more people were self aware. I am interested in how our world operates as billions of complex individuals. I often look for intimacy and to understand people intimately. Others do not indulge this depth of self-awareness and do not offer insight into their unique world. I therefore only have myself to understand. I also believe as a type 4 there is a need for more emotional stimulation with the world around me and I can feel let down when I do not find it anywhere outside of my inner world.

[@themaggieMACfly]

as a 5.. per the childhood message of don't be too comfortable in the world-- i think for me growing up, my family had the financial ability to have things, but we didn't have them. my dad is very frugal and my mom is easily stressed by requests. we never spent on anything extra...i was the last kid in class with dial up internet, i was the only kid in class with no cable tv. we didnt keep up with fashion/styles (clothes at christmas and that was it), we didnt go to the pool in the summer. we didnt have snacks in the house. all my friends had all the above, and it seemed like my mom was fine with us going to other peoples houses to have those things, but we would never have them ourselves. that said, we could definitely afford it, we had horses! but the mantra was "you dont need it". now as an adult, while i enjoy watching true crime and indulging in creature comforts, i find that i always would rather do with less, as nice as it is to go to someone elses house and sit in a comfy couch and watch something on a big screen....i dont desire to have those things.. i dont have a tv and all my furniture is second hand free...i use my phone for everything. I like window shopping online and then never buying anything because I don't need it. my basic desire to be competent is strong in all things horse...you might call it useless specialization because I dont have a job working with horses. I want to know how to efficiently treat root causes of everything... i've gotten really good at getting down to the source and then developing the skills and collecting mass information in order to do it all myself. as for the thing we needed to hear-- this hits home.. "you are not the problem".. anytime anything happened growing up, my reaction was "I didnt do it"-- i felt like I was always going to be in trouble, either for things I didnt do, or things I did unknowingly. as far as horses go... I decided I (we) were the problem (like all horse owners are).. if the horse is lame because the hoofcare person did a bad job, its my fault for not knowing better than the professional. its my fault if I take bad advice from a veterinary professional. its my fault for not realizing when a training method is wrong, or when I was taught wrong. this has driven me to be very self critical and also swiftly willing to take on horsecare roles that most owners pay someone else to do. I not only want to do it myself but I want scientifically un challengeable knowledge to empower my choices.

[@rayadevine7290]

Your videos always help me mature and understand people in general and to have patience with myself and others, so first... Thank you. So as a type 4. I understand the desire of being myself. As child I notice it was the normal things (at least I considered them to be normal) that I would do that would get people's attention. I felt so on the spot in a way. Rather embarrassed or not I would left thinking "what I did do?" So it made me consider myself and want to understand who I was. Much love😊❤️

[@jess1987]

As a 7. My childhood fear; was missing out on fun things with friends! And definitely the dentist as well! I remember, I was going to a birthday party with my cousin. I got in trouble, so my cousin went and I couldn't. I was so upset with my mum. I felt like my life was over! But, as much as I wanted to stay mad at her to make a point; I really hate staying mad. As well, the tears of pain, when I wasn't allowed to have the best toy, or foods!!! I'm glad my parents did a lot of adventurous things with my brother and I!

[@christinadonnelly781]

So as a self preservation 4 I am the counter type. The message I needed resonates but the message I got as a child was you are different and you should try harder to fit in. So I think that a social 4 and a sx 4 might have the don't get too happy..well the social 4 for sure, but the self pres 4 does not typically feel that. More the opposite. Stop being so glum..life is not that complicated etc.

[@christinadonnelly781]

@@kate5185 yup. That sounds about right!

[@tracyreadytv]

As a 4....deteriorating into self indulgence makes 100% sense!! You can get so consumed in you and figuring yourself out and nursing your melancholy state and etc etc etc that you become consumed in you with little to no space or patience for anyone else. I clearly see that as self indulgent.... then it'll go into over indulging in the things that make you happy i.e. food.

[@baaf777]

8w7 here. Spot on Dr LaHue! My home is like a bunker. I’m doing everything I can to be financially independent. Protector of the ones close to my heart. My soul is so guarded only a few were able to touch it. People who try to control me usually get completely frustrated.

[@monaabdelbaset8726]

As a 4.. My childhood message was your feelings are too much, too sensetive, and too inappropriate to express or even dare feel. For me it was about suppression. My basic desire is to connect with/understand myself which boils down to an intense need for authentic self love, as to only when I can do that and be truly who I am and live in accordance, I'll be able to find my place in the world where I can satisfy my need for being passionate, heart_opened, understood, valuable, loving and just whole.. Alive in other words. The blind spot is I can indulge in self analysis, trying to understand my life and giving it a bigger meaning, trying to make everything emotionally relevant to my standards or needs (energetic, mental and emotional drain). Also sometimes going after my whims wanting to explore more of me (or more unexperienced feelings or a feeling of relief and escape) when it's not the right time or circumstance.. Plus following my mood swings too much when I am not healthy. In short it's favoring my inner world over real life and then feeling frustrated with the results.

[@carolynnmarie5716]

What you said about the 5 was more on target than what the author says

[@whynot4]

As a 4 I can understand what self indulging would mean. It comes out as self destructive behavior when unhealthy. Overeating, drug addiction, sex and relationship addiction, ocd, etc...saying to ourselves we deserve to do this also as in spending money we don't have or having that extra piece of cake. It's excess we don't need.

[@cuttinupwitthejoneses9530]

Fragmentation I think for 9s is a fragmented sense of self bc we lean too much into retreating to "100 acre wood". Or like an intermittent awareness that breaks up the "going to sleep" or autopilot. I guess the best comparison is the initial moments when you wake up from sleeping and you don't know who you are and where you are. I think 9s encounter that experience often.

[@amanda6876]

As a 9, I wholeheartedly agree.

[@andreascott8150]

I am a 5 and the youngest of 5. Growing up my I looked up to my older siblings because they were so smart and I always felt incapable or incompetent. I would want to help but would chicken out because of the fear of not doing it successfully and become embarrassed by it. I would also observe and analyze everything they said or did as a way of learning how to adapt to the world that I felt was too much and too big for me to handle. I also would not do anything in front of people unless I 100% knew what I was doing, and even with that I struggled. I used to think it was perfectionism but I have slowly come to realize that I just don't feel capable and sometimes even smart enough. I also would not participate in most things and I would just observe everything.

[@andreascott8150]

I also hardly spoke in public or parties that were hosted at my parents house. But when I was alone with certain people or when I would get home I was a chatter box. I even had family friends ask my siblings if I could talk lol

[@Andrew-qc8jh]

Your a sweetheart, thank you for these videos. You remind me of grounded 269 energy.

[@bobpolo2964]

I don't think type one's need to hear "you are good" but rather "you are loved"

[@gingerkind372]

Spot on! for this type 3.... when looking back and doing inner child healing - spot on feeling I felt as kid.

[@sarahcouture24]

Type 3s sound like children of narcissists Not allowed to have your own feelings or identity Not valued for who you are Must be who parents want you to be, many expectations

[@sweetpeasandyarrowaranchdi8327]

We have a 3, created by a more codependent environment. Had to be well behaved all the time.

[@sarahcouture24]

@@sweetpeasandyarrowaranchdi8327 ooooohhh that would make sense too actually

[@kittykatfancy]

My father was a 3, and I'd say spot on. His father took a doll he cherished away from him as a child because "boys don't play with dolls" and really he was never the same after that. Unfortunately he became a narcissist too. One of the things that can happen when you're raised by them.

[@sarahcouture24]

@@kittykatfancy that’s so sad 🥺

[@arabellarobbins711]

Yeah this makes so much sense. Sadly my mother is a bit of a narcissist, and when I was younger she would always empress on me the importance of being different or unique, and wouldn't let me have things she thought I only wanted because my friends had them; which was sometimes true and sometimes not true. I suppose to an extent, wanting me to be unique was a good thing. Unfortunately, she didn't do this and then encourage me to think about my true identity and what I truly wanted, instead she told me what to like and what was right/wrong ways in life. It was a weird way of control I think, and one that in my 20s I only started to see the pattern of. You can't be authentic to your if you are ust doing what you think others deem as authentic and unique, that's completely the opposite. And that's why I have been confused for so long.... I'm good though :)

[@dr.hebagadallahclinicalpha9871]

As an 8 w9 INFJ . I feel so informed and entertained listening to you as a 7w8 ENFP. Thanks, Dr Tom.

[@Moheroine]

8 INFJ?!😐

[@jacobcluff6382]

As a 5, if I am too comfortable, I am not pushing myself enough to learn more and to be better. Too some extent, this means I could fall behind and not be as capable as others around me.

[@lulahbelle970]

Just listened whilst getting a filling at the dentist 👍

[@mryan4719]

This video is a great self-test the way Sleeping At Last's songs are... they're all a little bit true, but the one that stops you in your tracks and puts a pit in your gut... that's yours.

[@miss_anthrope5198]

As a five, I believe we are idealists at heart. We are always looking for ways to improve situations by hoarding information to make us feel secure, giving us the illusion of having the upperhand in our specific domain of interests. I agree with what the author said about not being okay with being comfortable, because we know what could be and being comfortable would only be a means of restriction to an endless sea of alternate possibilities.

[@e.B.FanFic]

Uhm as a 4 i didn't expect it to be "it's not ok to be too happy in life" but it makes sense. I often pretend I'm doing worst than I am not to make other people feel bad if they are not doing that well - not to make them suffer because of envy you could say. And I at times I do feel kind of guilty, deep down, about the happiness I have, or about the fact that I'm luckyier than others in some ways, or because my mental health is better of than my ex's, or my cousin's, or my friend's. Interesting. Perhaps that's why i often focus on what's not working instead of what is. But as a self-preservative four that's kind of contraddictory, because at the same time I often smile to hide my pain not to upset or worry others. Kinda messed up, isn't it? About the "self indulgent" part... true. I can become pretty self indulgent, and that can be a problem (but the 3 wing can help with this). I think at times it's like: i want to have an identity, so I need to be authentic (i know this contraddicts everything I said above) and follow my feelings and my gut and what i have inside... and i feel like i want to indulge in this sadness, or lazyness, or addiction, or... so that's what I'm going to do because that's what i feel inspired to do. Of course it's not necessarily conscious and it's not necessarily what happens, but at times it does.

[@e.B.FanFic]

Plus, another thing that was not okay in my childhood was playing and doing other fun things that the other Kids did; and i felt as if it wasn't okay to admit that i wanted something that i didn't think my mother would approve of, which basically meant... nothing fun.

[@jesuschristthesecond]

I'm 2w1-5w4-1w2, so a central 5, and I absolutely relate to not feeling like I'm allowed to be comfortable. It's specifically that we don't feel like we're allowed to find comfort in our understanding of the world because the truth is always elusive. We feel like we have to rely on ourselves to gather information about how things work in order to feel secure, but there's always a fear of deluding ourselves or not knowing everything there is to know

[@karinjahn-walter5846]

I'm so much in this need to be seen and accepted for who I'm (4w3). I'm a little bit struggeling with the message: It's not good to be too functioal or happy. I would describe it more as an "You are too much in the way you express yourself and your feelings" I was seen accepted as the creative clown you could laugh at, but not understood in my melancholy. So I had to care for this part myself while playing the too loud clown, to be special enough to be seen. It worked most of the times even if people were sometimes annoyed by it. This was an exhausting life-stile and stil is. In case of indulgence, naturally I tried to get this acceptance in a verry convulsively and sometimes aggressive manner and didn't deviate from my "high standards" , maybe this is the way I should be more indulgent.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

For the record, lots of prominent E-teachers now reject the "childhood message" idea, even if they wrote about it in older books. Your type is evident from a VERY early age and as your personality (along with your brain) develops in the womb, and the "childhood messages" or experiences are more like the things about their childhood that stood out to each type- eg. an 8 might remember a childhood incident that taught them that life was unfair and they needed to "toughen up", but that doesn't mean they weren't already an 8 before this or that the incident was especially traumatic- it was just an early example of an assertive, reactive 8 child learning that they can't always get their way or that people won't always treat them fairly.

[@kairu5607]

Funny you mentioned the sting, I’m a 4 and I felt the sting for the 2,3 and 4 greatly.

[@lenahunter5369]

Please please please, put timestamps for each type. And use it more. It would make our lives easier. Thank you if you decide to do it. Btw, I’m a 7 too(7w8 fo sho) P.s. Did you know The instincts can change the attitude of the type.(Like So/Sx)

[@angelabuckeye]

I’m an 8 so I always feel like “hurry up and get to my number!” But the point of learning all this is to practice empathy, just as much as it is learning about oneself... so I listen to the whole thing 😅

[@georgecataloni4720]

I think the childhood message for 5s makes more sense if you think of fives as metaphorical agoraphobics. They're hiding in comfort zones, in fear of things that are not scary, but rather rewarding... Supposedly. Idk how healthy of a five I am, but I don't hide in fear; rather, I just do not see how rewarding relationships can be. I recently read The Complete Enneagram, and while it does have good advice for fives that are afraid, there isn't much advice for fives that don't see the benefits of social interaction. Maybe there aren't any, if you don't like what they offer. Side note: Where the heck can you find an abundance of time outside your comfort zone? Are friends supposed to be slaves, doing grunt work for us? I don't think so. Friendship is give and take, not a time saver. Sure, the division of labor can save time, but it's more effective and efficient under capitalism, than the social capital system of friendship.

[@theralph2247]

As 6w5, the thing you said about us being here is not a problem... it really struck something inside of me, I started tearing up instantly Edit: I continued watching and the thing about 6 is pretty accurate. Although I've been told that I'm safe, I've been told that a lot and I'm still told that I'm safe (especially my parents told/tell me this), but somehow I still turned out a 6. Back in the day, I wouldn't have had the logic to relativize "safe". Tho when I was younger and being told that I was safe, I was still hevaily bullied at school, so maybe that's a factor?

[@JuliaOstrovok]

Урааааа субтитры Хотя я даже расстроилась, ибо настолько взахлеб смотрела канал, что повысила свой уровень английского с B1 до C1 🎉🎉

[@joemcmorrow467]

Type 5 needs to hear "Your being here is not a problem." That really rings true.