Ep. 035 - Q&A with Seth and Jayden

[@banzai240]

You're level of patience, and frankly maturity, in dealing with the criticism is commendable. Thank you for all this information.

[@philotomybaar]

Jay, your mea culpa to the correction on Mach was the most intellectually honest thing I’ve seen on KZbin, or in most of my professional life. We should celebrate people like you, who admit mistakes and correct them, regardless of how the criticism is worded. You are a clearheaded scientist, thank you. And kudos to whoever selected the comments that included the criticism.

[@RogWhat]

I am reminded by the cited analogy-criticisms that ALL analogies - any-time and any-place and no matter how apt to explanation - are subject to the same ultimate criticism, namely that if two different things are in fact the "same" in EVERY RESPECT, then they are NOT different things, they are the SAME things! Hence in the end-limit of criticism, all analogies must break down.... But that is often not a very useful observation for teaching since analogies can be very useful. Kudos to Jayden and the team! I have enjoyed and benefited from your instruction very much!

[@RMM--uv7uk]

The Rocket Analogy to me made perfect sense. It gave me a visual to see in my head. I have been re-watching each video over and over in the correct order. And each time I am picking up more information. "SCIENCE"!!!

[@jerodTSI]

Thanks again guys,this has become one of my favorite podcasts

[@spysweeper]

It looks like the sticklers for accuracy in details are coming out of the woodworks!!! Lol! While I appreciate the fact check as well, not everyone in the audience has a graduate level knowledge of rocket science! I think that the analogies Jayden presented works and puts the principles into perspective. The important thing is for the audience to understand the basic concept and if there are other details, then that comes in progression as the knowledge builds. I feel he did a good job emphasizing properties and effects of a decelerating vs accelerating object - I hope he doesn't get discouraged by the criticisms of the individuals who are obviously experts in their own fields!

[@spysweeper]

Awesome!!! Always looking forward to your series! You really hit it with this series by putting the science behind it!!! What will also probably be cool is a live or recorded demonstration/tutorial in using your 4DOF app and Zero Angle concepts and on a different note, terminal ballistics performance of Hornady bullets!!! I'm picturing like an ala Prof Walter Lewin MIT Physics lecture with lab!!!😉😄👊

[@oddursigurdsson3046]

Great job guys, so much appreciated. Watched all your ballistic podcasts, you guys are really helping us out here. Keep up your great work. Greetings from Iceland :)

[@spencernewman9359]

Cheers guys this podcast has taught be so much just from listening to the ballistic side of things

[@brentrasmussen2440]

when work get's boring - Hornady Ballistic Podcasts! Loving this series guys. Jayden is better than most of my college professors.

[@georgelza]

Thanks for addressing my tag system question... I'm from South Africa. We have a hunting season, within which the farm owner can decide how much he wants shot, We don't have open / public land on which people hunt.

[@novicereloader]

When you discussed the rocket analogy, I was imagining the model rockets of my youth. It worked perfectly for me.

[@curtishooper2603]

You guys do a great job! Thanks

[@louisshambarger2230]

I bought a strain gage set up over 30 years ago. I still have it some where. It uses an MMI brand rosette array. I glued it to the barrel of a Remington 40-x in .308. I got it as close as I could to the chamber which was slightly in front of the receiver. I didn’t want it over the threaded portion of the receiver. It did produce interesting readings. I could see the primer go off and the pressure curve as the powder charge ignited. The number for the pressure has to be calculated from the dimensions of the barrel at rue location of the gage. There is really no way for me to calibrate the set up to get an accurate pressure number but it certainly did give good relative numbers when compared to commercial ammo and military 7.62 ammo. The hottest rounds were the 7.62 military rounds. I always loaded to slightly below the recipe in the loading manuals for safety and the strain gage results tracked what the reloading manuals recommended so I think I was getting good numbers.

[@Godfryness]

Jaden does a great job explaining many different points. Keep up the good work. Ignore all the keyboard commandos that want to sound smarter.

[@UtilityBi11]

Don't listen to the haters... You're doing a good job. I think the shooting community appreciates your efforts to enhance our understanding.

[@MrSabram07]

This Quinlan guy explains really well

[@bronsonwhite611]

I enjoy the conversational format.

[@rotasaustralis]

Excellent podcasts lads. You're all doing a great job with something that needed to be done. Due to the internet, gone are the days of customers finding themselves in the position where they have only marketing information to govern their choices. In essence, those companies which fail to provide technical but practical information about their products will find themselves loosing market share to those companies which allow their customers to choose products based upon reliable, technical information. If the customer can't get access to that information, he will simply move to a product where the information is readily available because that is where that customer can best evaluate his needs. As for Jayden, buddy, you're doing an excellent job. You know what you're talking about otherwise you wouldn't be employed by Hornady. You've been at the forefront of these latest major advancements, not only in ballistics but more importantly, the advancements in the application & education of external ballistics. Hornady can only benefit from educating potential customers & it looks to me that old man Hornady has himself a loyal & very dedicated generation of employees who will no doubt set the company in a vital new direction.

[@daveknowles3055]

Be a nice thing if you indexed the podcast, much easier if I want to review a particular portion of a podcast.

[@teampyle9835]

Jayden has said that too much twist can cause the bullets center of cavity to shift off of the center axis line, causing imbalanced flight and larger group sizes. I wish there was a way of testing what the maximum RPMs of a particular bullet could handle before the center of gravity experiences to significant of a shift. I know not every bullet is exactly the same, but it would be nice to find that sweet spot. Maybe cutting barrels with different twists down with a matching load in every barrel to see what works best. I greatly appreciate the study work yall are putting in and sharing with us to give us the edge we all are looking for! Thank you

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

Vernon Speer used a 1/10,000ths caliper looking for a 1/2-10,000ths expansion on the casehead. When he found it he knew he was in the danger pressure zone.

[@mikeberger6664]

Thanks for answering my question 👍

[@bradriley3345]

In the last episode, I think you all did a great job! Whenever you talk high level there will always be somebody that wants to prove they know something even more. I spent 20+ in turbomachinery and the way I talk to our customers is different than when talking to others in the same field working on a technical issue. I do have a question to see if I am thinking right. On a Black Bear hunt, Close Range, 14.5" 6 ARC what factory ammo would you shoot, and what hand loads would you shoot?

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

We can use our whitetail tags for elk in Virginia and we don’t need a 6000 yard rifle to hunt them. 😜

[@masone4589]

I’ll add a question. Shopping for a new hunting rifle that I will be using a suppressor on most if not all of the time. It needs to be an everything kind of rifle up to elk at 400+ yards. My question has to do with 300 Win Mag vs 300 WSM with 20”, 22”, 24” barrels. Where is the sweet spot and at what point are you losing too much performance.

[@ironmikehallowween]

I know some people are sick of hearing about the 6.5CM, but a lot of us own them and actually shoot them. So, we are interested in articles about them. Plus, the 6.5CM is just an evolution of what came before it. And, the rifles made for it, as well as the ammo you feed it, virtually guarantee a degree of accuracy and performance. This is because the barrel, its twist rate, the ammunition, and all other aspects of the rifle, are specifically designed to maximize advancements in technology, our understanding, and the consequential bullet design and construction, that yield the desired performance with consistency.

[@georgelza]

love these podcasts... would love to have you discuss the similarities/difference of the ELDM 225gr vs the A-Tip 230gr for the PRC (.30) Caliber.

[@cbsbass4142]

Thank goodness even Manufacturers are now catching on and offering the .243 with a 1:8 Twist. So, if the Creedmoor did anything, besides hype, it prompted change rather than making other calibers obsolete.

[@lindsayskillern6475]

yall stop reading the comments and get back to bringing us quality content. if someone knows enough to correct you they don't need to be listening.

[@58harwood]

Yes, humidity has Avery small effect on “density altitude” but, is has an enormous effect on “powders” performance when reloading! There’s a difference, with a distinction! I realize you guys at Hornady know this but, from the average “reloader” I’ve encountered, they don’t!

[@alexmason1387]

It takes testicular fortitude to face criticism head on, especially when you are willing to admit you are incorrect. F the haters. Thanks for the videos

[@barkeater9606]

Please do a run of 303 Savage ammo. There are a lot of old Savage rifles out there and new ammo would great to have. I still use my model 99 made in 1927 to still hunt with. Cheers 👍

[@woodstockrifles8215]

Is Hornady going to replace the entire line of GMX bullets with the CX? The 180 gr. 8mm GMX works great in my old Mauser. Did the expansion velocity window from max to minimum also improve over the GMX?

[@milesn3173]

Expansion window in terms of velocity is usually the same or very similar, but the decreased drag pushes the distance window a little further. Some bullets were more affected than others with the change. Additionally, all of the new CX BC's are doppler radar derived, while some of the legacy GMX BC's were based off of chronograph data.

[@jimmywilliams7876]

hey Seth, any way you could get a "powder expert" with the knowledge of powders (i.e, ball vs. flake vs. extruded, burn rate, pressure issues, etc) that your crew has on ballistics? I would love to hear Jayden and the crew have a podcast with the folks they worked with from Hodgdon on the Leverevolution powder development.

[@bradleyseal3844]

Any thing planed for the 277 prc round

[@pstewart5443]

It's simply not possible to do pressure testing unless you have the equipment to read it and the barrels to support it. Instead try doing the best method which is do a load ladder, and when you begin to see pressure signs, then you say oh hey lookie there, maybe someone should stop adding powder to these handloaded cartridges.

[@davidsutherland4151]

Hi there Seth & Co. My question is about a projectile that doesn't shoot good groups In low to medium velocity. Will it shoot better at higher velocity.? Do you know of any cartridges such as weatherby or magnum cartridges that may shoot better at higher speeds? Thanks in advance cheers David

[@milesn3173]

Usually no. Typically the faster you push a bullet, the worse the dispersion will be. I've done a fair amount of testing on this subject and what I have done is in a very limited in scope and shouldn't be looked at as all-encompassing, but in every case, the faster the MV, the worse the dispersion on 20-50 shot sample tests. A caveat to that is that I have not tested below what I would call "useful" velocity ranges. Essentially book minimum to book maximum loads. I'm not going to tell you that there are no exceptions to this trend, though. I just haven't found them yet. It drops into a rabbit hole of statistical significance, dispersion patterns, and a giant pile of variables, but in my opinion, most of what people see when they think a rifle/cartridge combination shoots better at higher pressure/velocity it is the result of small sample testing and not understanding the baseline variability of the system. Again, however, just because I've not seen it doesn't mean it can't happen.

[@FoulPet]

Why won't .45 XTPs fit in a P220 mag?

[@josojoso1974]

6.5 needmoore and elk hunting in same sentence?????

[@GavinM161]

Great response to the Creedmoor criticism. I feel the questioner hasn't actually tried the cartridge but is using other published literature to pick apart specifics. I don't know if you in the US have the card game "Top Trumps"? Seems like this is all that's being done here. Jayden is very careful to state that the analogies he gives are exactly that. They are aids to help understanding.

[@Dreamometry]

What's precipitation's effect on exterior ballistics. Seems no one ever mentions this.

[@hornady]

Check out the 47:08 mark in this podcast.

[@russellgavin1820]

Would be cool to hear about 8.6 blackout

[@jeffreywilson690]

Are you working on a 6mm PRC?

[@milesn3173]

Not at this time. I know there are a few people wildcatting it out there, but we don't have any plans to pursue that one.

[@jeffreywilson690]

Why not,it would be a awesome 6mm Magnum for hunting.,.

[@milesn3173]

@@jeffreywilson690 Necessary twist rate vs. muzzle velocity is going to produce excessive bullet RPM and likely lead to a lot of bullet failures. Also, the 6.5 PRC already is at a point that it creates a lot of carbon fouling and a 6mm variant would exacerbate that, as well as reduce barrel life further. It definitely has impressive performance numbers but it's not very efficient and comes with a few serious concerns/issues.

[@jeffreywilson690]

With the cx bullet it would be interesting. For hunting not for prs. Probably could go to an 1/8 twist

[@jbcaptain11]

Still pushing my flat base varmint grenades farther and farther as a fast as possible

[@SavageShooter93]

What is with people? They hear MULTIPLE TIMES "This isn't a perfect analogy, it actually works differently, but its easy to visualize and understand and is good enough for our purpose" And then they sit at their keyboards breathing heavily all sweaty and covered in cheese dust gleefully rubbing their hands together because they can drop their favorite phrase into the comments "Akshually it doesn't work like that". Damn people get a life.

[@cbsbass4142]

Groups are overrated. at a bench doing load testing you might want to shoot groups. Hunting, you more than likely will shoot one shot, unless you have too little gun for a brown bear who is now running off with your fancy bullet. Once a load is found, you could eliminate the difference a cold and hot barrel will have on POI by just shooting to confirm zero at various ranges, letting the barrel cool between single shots. (Also 5 shot groups waste more components than three shot groups, and as "Winning in the Wind: points out, you can't make a two shot, 1 inch wide group in group any smaller by shooting at it 3 or 5 times. 5 shot groups waste ammo components, but, if your goals is selling more, your views change.

[@johnsanders7337]

Its the best factory AMMUNITION EVER!! BUY IT OR DONT these guys are explaining to try amd help people wanna understand. . Its and analogy. Comparison. get over it. People just jelly fish they don't work for hornady... Probally an old green box fan complaining hahaha

[@cbsbass4142]

Wrong again at around 31:36...with the response. While SAAMI specs might rate the standard twist for 260 at 1:9 Savage released their 110 Apex Hunter in 260 REM with a 24-inch barrel as well as the 6.5-.284 so there is no reason to pick a Creedmoor. While some barrel manufacturers like SHAW sell barrels with 1:9 Twist, the Rifle manufacturers are catching on, Kindly get the bias out of your manual. I stopped buying the Hodgdon annual manuals after a dozen years because they chose to drop cartridges in favor of their powder acquisitions and are now dropping powders like H-414 in favor of W-260 (same powder). Why not keep both? I noticed they dropped: 7X57, 6.5X55, .257 Roberts, .44 Special completely from handloading data. Winchester is also making mistakes in discontinuing Model 70s and 1885 calibers. BAD BUSINESS IDEAS AND BIAS will make me vote with my feet and my wallet.

[@seanmay6727]

6.5 Swedish standard twist rate is 1/8 same as the creed and when reloaded will blow the creed out of the water with a factory rifle but isn't a yank cartridge so yous yanks don't like it simples creed is doing something that has already been done a 100 years ago why reinvent the wheel??

[@hornady]

There are many chamber variances from over the decades, but the SAAMI max OAL does not lend it to be a short action cartridge. It also has a very low SAAMI max pressure. It is a great cartridge though.

[@seanmay6727]

@@hornady the saami spec is for really old rifles modern day rifles have no problem with alot hotter load fact my tikka with a 20 inch barrel has no problem driving a 95gr vmax 3150 and no problem driving a 140gr sst at 2750 2800 the factory ammo in 140gr is only getting 2600 and that's superperfermance ammunition aswell unreal accuracy with the factory 140gr sst only advantage of the creed is a short action

[@seanmay6727]

And by the way yous do make some really good ammo wouldn't dream of using anything else in the 6.5 r 223

[@stevepodleski]

Is that a european spec or SAAMI spec cartridge?

[@seanmay6727]

@@stevepodleski it's a European cartridge thats why it never took off in the states