Ep. 081 - 17 HMR

On this episode, Seth is joined in the studio by Steve Hornady, Hornady Director of Engineering, Mitch Mittelstaedt, and special guest, Dave Emary. The guys discuss the 17 HMR or what we like to call at Hornady, "the little cartridge that could". The conversation further explains how the cartridge was developed and why it became an instant success. The guys discuss the first ever 17 HMR rifle build, in addition to some cartridge development stories with some interesting insights. We hope you enjoy this episode!

[@georgedeedsnotwords2162]

I picked up my .17 HMR a week ago and fell in love . Can not wait to see how it performs . At the least it might get my brother and I talking more . Something about the smell of gunpowder that puts a smile on your face and opens up a line of conversation between two people . 🍻🍻🍻

[@mrjeffjob]

Bringing people together with burning gunpowder. Now there’s a banner for the UN. 😎🫣

[@dustybare8983]

Love this cartridge... I've taken groundhogs at 230yrds this year. "Accurate, deadly, dependable" sums it up!

[@ironmikehallowween]

The 17HMR is just something you need to have. Thanks

[@offroadsoda]

Good to see Steve gettin' into it. Involved leaders show support and commitment. Dave is amazing, of course. And nice to see a new face - Hello Mitch!

[@damienmilk3025]

On all the podcasts that I have listened to, I just can't help but think Dave Emary is such a humble and genuine gentleman. Thanks for having him on the podcast.

[@jamesgarrett8541]

I would agree with that

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Feel fortunate to have the 17HM2, 17HMR, 17WSM, & .17 Hornet. As I've gotten older (61), smaller is as good as it's always been. To the point that on small game (for meat) FMJ's would actually be more practical.

[@fowllab]

Very cool to hear the story right from the man responsible for development and the boss that let it happen. I just purchased my for HMR this week. Hopefully see how it works on critter’s soon. Good episode.

[@hondas562]

I love these podcasts. I find myself reliving that “ah-ha!” Moment for myself discovering each of these cartridges same as them.

[@balaton1]

Had a buddy who had a 17hrm Savage some years ago. He let me fire it. I said "Mother of God". Talk about fun! Bought the same Savage 93 he had within a week. So much fun!

[@johnfila6480]

from the first time i used the 17 hmr i was hooked!

[@brianohren2672]

Me also I have two rifles in that caliber.

[@ajheath5123]

I would love to hear the story behind the .204 Ruger.

[@cheifbrownrabbit3986]

What this guy said

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Then you need to hit up Ruger.......

[@jman95510]

I bought a CZ 17 HMR with my first payday after college in 2002. I remember my dad asking was I going mouse hunting. I left it at his house with no scope or sights. A few days later he called and wanted me to go back to the gun shop to see if they had another one. He got bored and put an old Tasco scope on it and was hitting pennies at 100 yards.

[@phild8095]

I'm glad I found the channel. I love shooting 17 HMR in my bolt action Savage. As a chemical engineer I appreciate the effort that goes into development. I'm kinda the age of the Dad in the story and love reaching out a bit .

[@dwalke26]

I got one of the Remington Model 5, in 17 HMR, and it will absolutely drive tacks, fantastic piece.

[@mikes.9755]

I bought one of the Marlin heavy barreled rifles when they first hit the market. Then the bullets sold out every where. Still love it over 20 years later.

[@jamesgarrett8541]

I just wanted to let u know, not long after 17hmr came out I owned a ruger 10-22 magnum that had never emptied a full magazine with out jamming at least once. I slapped a shilen barrel and a after market stock on it did a little trigger work and I would shoot 1/2” groups all day. And best of all, to this day after thousands of rounds and hundreds of squirrels it has not jammed one time!!

[@luismariscal3601]

Max yards taken by me: 326 yards on a coyote and 345 on a Jackrabbit amazing cartridge thanks for giving us this cartridge.

[@ronlowney4700]

😂 A Very Good Story and I Learned Some Things That I Didn't Know Before! It Is Also Good To Hear That You Are Working With Other Companies To Improve The Quality Of Our Products! 😃👍

[@alexdrockhound9497]

this was a darn good episode.

[@hornady]

Thanks for watching!

[@texasyotehunter2964]

I bought the Savage 93R17 BTVSS Satin Stainless/ Brown Laminate Bolt Action Rifle several years ago. That is a dead nuts accurate rifle. Really like the 17 HMR round. I stay well stocked up on ammo for it. I later had the barrel threaded for a silencer that toned it down a little.

[@billberry8240]

Great episode 👏!! I own and love both the hmr and mach 2 ,the 17 wsm is really fun too !

[@wesleyherring9870]

Steve is one sharp boss , hires very smart people and lets them run . Great podcast as always.

[@hornady]

Much appreciated

[@Kycirion]

Except for that time when they threatened to fire employees who didn't get the jab. Except for that time...

[@SixOFord]

​@Kycirion True that. I don't buy near as many hornady products as a result of that.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

​@@Kycirion STOP SPREADING LIES. NOBODY at Hornady was fired for not getting vaxxed .

[@btbrilz]

Except when he made his employees fear experimentation with a new rimfire cartridge 🤔

[@kenneider5317]

Oh yah best part of my week!!!

[@raymondcamp8212]

Enjoyed watching. I was sold on 17hmr day one. My CZ 452 has seen lots of action. Would love to hear discussion on the 17WSM. My savage fluted barrel WSM is just as accurate as the HMR and has lots less wind drift and shoots flatter. Thank you

[@acorn826]

I LOVE my 17 Mach 2 Marlin. I pray it never dries up!

[@paulpalmer5264]

I want to know why they don't make a 17 HMR pistol Kel-Tec or Ruger needs to come out with this forget about 22 Magnum

[@georgekasza7295]

Ruger made a single six in 17hmr,never seen one but I've been looking for years.

[@justinappling614]

I have a Savage in Mach2 and love it! Guess I have had that rifle 12 or 13 years now.

[@GeographyNerd48]

17hmr was my favorite till I got a 17 hornet. Plz support it more. More and better brass. More factory loads. More projectiles. More firearms. Been waiting for a run of brass for years! Get norma making better brass or something! With inflation its so cheap and fun to shoot!

[@loganwgriffith]

I bought a .17 HMR during one of the first. 22 LR shortages/high demand. .22 wasn't on the shelf, but this .17 HMR was. And at the time, it was running about 17 cents per round. Not as cheap as .22LR, but way cheaper than .223 Remington. I love it, but if I would have known just how much .17 HMR (and. 22 WMR) was going to go up, I probably would have passed on it

[@kirkchapman80]

I would expect Savage A17 drove the sales volumes . Semi automatic accurate and inexpensive. Love mine

[@ru2yaz33]

I still have the original Savage 17 hmr bolt action from 2003, and recently got a Volquartsen VT2 (beauty is swap barrels between 17 hmr and 22 wmr). I think the recoil system of new S&W semiautomatic 22 WMR pistol (base on their M&P 5.7 x 28) could be converted to shoot the 17 HMR.

[@hghunter44]

I regularly use my Marlin 17 VS I purchased in 2003 and it still shoots those 17 grain vmax bullets into tiny groups. Dozens of groundhogs have fallen to this rifle over the last 2 decades.

[@yukon4545]

If the market ever settles down to allow, a 20 rimfire exploration might be interesting.

[@GeographyNerd48]

Yep 20 hmr or something

[@BrassJeep]

They already have a 5mm Remington rim fire magnum, which is a .204, and yes it is amazing.

[@waynemayle865]

​@@BrassJeepmost of these guy's don't know what a 5mm is I grew up with one taken many ohio groundhogs hornady needs to make ammo for the 5mm but they won't because it would kill the 17hmr

[@JimCloyd]

Need to hear about the 17 WSM please

[@paulpalmer5264]

I need a automatic 17 HMR

[@slickrick809]

Oh yeah !

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Got the 17HM2 in a Savage FV HB. Love at first squeeze😊

[@justanobserver530]

I've been looking at 17s, mach 2, hmr and wsm trying to decide which one I want. The mach 2 initially sounds great because it's basically a super fast 22lr with better explosive results on squirrels, rabbits etc. Unfortunately trying to find ammo for it or the wsm is nearly impossible

[@paulmitchell5324]

WSM all way

[@steveward4509]

Ruger bolt 17hmr 2015 convert 10-22 to 17m2 2018 nice

[@wylde223]

You didn't mention the A17 and A17hm2. Is it a sore subject?

[@longbow6245]

The .17 HMR is for squirrel or rabbit size game.It's good for shooting crows I guess. Basically very small varmints. With the right 20-25 grain bullet it might make a good very close range fox cartridge. I'm talking about calling them in right in your lap under 50 yds. It is an accurate cartridge as rimfires go. I've used a lot of Hornady products and will continue to. That being said most of these podcast episodes I watch are for laughs and to read the fan boy dumb comments. The17 HMR should be a very niche cartridge only used for varmints under 10 pounds. A .17 Hornet is actually under powered for anything bigger than a fox. That means the rimfire .17 HMR or .17 WSM are pretty actually very anemic compared to any traditional .17 center fire used in the past for varmints or predator hunting.

[@rogerlittle354]

Should have done Mach 2 first love both have both

[@jonathanrogers9961]

That long freebore sounds like what weatherby has been doing for years.

[@philipfreeman72]

What happened to 17 223 ? I sold a Remington to a guy in AK. The only thing its kinda loud . I think the Mach2 is enough for me at 72 yr old .

[@guywhosleepallday8194]

GIVE US .17HMR FMJ COPPER FOR US COMMIE CALIFORNIA

[@bobbythompson3544]

I have listened to this seven times now, still don’t trust boss man!

[@juanjosegonzalez9793]

Hello from Argentina. Why .17hmr split brass? That is a big trouble... affect consistence and accuracy. Why nobody speak about that? Thank in advance

[@loganwgriffith]

I haven't split a single case yet. What brand of ammo are you shooting?

[@juanjosegonzalez9793]

All brands split brass. I wonder if that problem occurs for the bullet design or just bad manufacturing. Any way... i like so much .17hmr, but i sold mine.

[@damnu8089]

its like a baby 3006

[@rogerlittle354]

Only accurate rifles are interesting. Wieland Townshen .probably butchering the spelling

[@tassu6700]

Great caliber, but now its time to move forward because in finland they are priceless now 50pcs cost 30-39 euro! Gold diggers are everywhere..

[@truthhurts467]

Someone Seth,Steve, Dave anybody help me find some 300 Win Mag Ammunition!!!??? 🎯 I'm in Kentucky I like to make long distance phone calls around 800 yards to 1200 can't find any Hornady match or any type of Hornady for that matter Pleeeease

[@RMM--uv7uk]

Got my 1st 17HMR in 2004. I now have 5 of them. The best word to describe it, is what you said.... "FUN"

[@jerrymarshall2728]

Thank you guys for the development if the .17HMR! First time I shot one was a buddy loaned me his on a coyote hunt. 125 yards, DRT! I bought an identical Savage 93 .17HMR the next day (2004), and it’s still my favorite rimfire! I’m pushing shots at 300 yards, using a BSA Sweet 17 4-12x40 scope, and I’m still amazed at the accuracy and ability to stay on target. Thank you again for having the tenacity to develop this cartridge!

[@Duckhunterbow]

My brother got the 77/17 when it first came out. A couple months after that I traded my 77/22 in for a 77/17. Dad bought us 17hmr by the case and we kept neighbor's hayfield ground squirrel free all summer and hammered squirrels in the fall. Dad later got the same gun in 17 mach 2. Around 20 years later and that's still one of my favorite rifles.

[@ru2yaz33]

Cost of the 17 Mach2 was too much compare to the 22lr ammo.

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Maybe so but when I can headshoot a squirrel at 80 yards........I'll pay it.

[@peter1873]

Hoppefully you guys can fully cover the 22Hornett next...😊😊

[@dustinrhodes1091]

Agree!!!!

[@ChipsPlace1952]

Isn't great to have a boss that gives his people the latitude to think outside the box. Keep up the good work.

[@jjgriffin3275]

Semi Auto - the savage A17 is amazing and WORKS

[@brianohren2672]

I have one also and love it.

[@loganwgriffith]

Are you shooting just the CCI A17 ammo? How is reliability if shooting the regular fps ammo?

[@TTT-du6oj]

Great to hear the full story on how the Hornady 17HMR came about,Dave (aka:Paul Davis) knew he was on to something and didn’t let up on Steve till they got her done,a wise invention indeed on such a fun little cartridge 👍

[@Tofazfou]

I LOOOOOVED this video as the .17 hits home for me. Bought into it DAY 1! And I loved the BOSS sitting there saying that Dave didn't fired for a lot of things!😂😂🤣🤣 Dave reminds me of, well, ME! Great info and great video!

[@colbykinney5633]

Probably my favorite episode so far 👍

[@preachers4135]

Can you do a podcast on 17WSM?

[@timblack6422]

Love hearing the stories!

[@eliaswebster937]

The vibe is definitely different with Steve in there and I like it. It'd be fun to see more podcasts with him in there.

[@hornady]

Heck yeah

[@ukwan]

I love listening to engineers discuss things as I am one but I always find successful business owners have such foresight. I suspect Mr Hornady is right if the HM2 came first you'd have had zero success and the HMR might have been developed elsewhere and enjoyed little to no success as well as it takes a special time and circumstance for success to happen and it cant always happen elsewhere.

[@faschwank]

Just as a story, this is great!

[@robertomesquita4019]

9:14 Real privilege to see and listen the person which has developed the product. Thanks. Need more of this. 👌👏🏻

[@michaelmeyers1827]

A really good friend of mine just loved the 17

[@loganwgriffith]

Well, I'm commenting as I go. When they got into the .17 HM2 they taked about how a semi auto doesn't work. Obviously the Savage A17 is out on market, but I guess since it was a collaboration between CCI and Savage they're not covering it. Sadly. I wish they would.

[@naturalcauses7351]

Can't find any 17 hmr ammo north of the border and a box of 9mm is cheaper ?.

[@Supervixi_Vigeo]

What's with the avoidance of mentioning the Savage A17 in the auto discussion? "... you're just never going to get there with the case design on a magnum case". Ron Spomer made a similar pointed omission about 2 years ago. Savage solved the problem with a marvelous rifle.

[@ronsorrentino6207]

I too love the l’il .17HMR. Have a Taurus Tracker 6” barrel revolver for it. Would someday like to get a bolt action for it. A semi-auto for it would be a blast. However the only thing I don’t like about it is the cost of this great l’il round! I’d hoped it would have come down as time went on but that has yet to happen. And I so t think it ever will.

[@davecollins6113]

Always nice to hear the boss's perspective, sure there are more of those stories to be told, and it is an education for customers as to what is involved in making ammo, new cartridges, and puts a human face to the business. A podcast with some of the other ammo mfgrs bosses would be an eye opener for a lot of people, none of you need be afraid of it. Sure they can tell lots of stories without giving away any deep dark corporate secrets, some of the needs, problems and solutions to problems within the industry, cooperative efforts can shed some light and put a face to these companies. Even just the stuff like a 5mil pc min order and what it takes to accomplish that, and then build the productin capability to the new demand, is something many folk do not comprehend.

[@twistedkidmotorsports9093]

The 17 super mag that I have is the best

[@paulpalmer5264]

Thanks for not firing him

[@Aaron.13]

Please make an accurate 25gr bullet for the 22 mag..

[@adamellington4562]

Probably hard to do with the amount of barrel contact from such light .22 round.

[@Aaron.13]

@@adamellington4562 How do the .17’s get away with it? Id be happy with the 30g vmax if they were more consistent and accurate..

[@user-hv5nt8xs2l]

Always wanted a 20cal rimfire. Best of both worlds between the 17hmr and 22wmr.

[@Greyzonecompliant]

They should make a 20wsm from the 17wsm case 😁👍

[@waynemayle865]

​@@Greyzonecompliant5mm remington

[@thecastbulletkid]

@@waynemayle865 With modern powders and a 25-30gr tipped bullet. It would smoke!

[@mercury8180]

Air gun manufactures tried the 20cal back in the 80s and it flopped. It had neither the speed and penetration of the .177 and it did not have the shock capability of the .22 it would be up against hmr and wmr but would not improve any of those i believe.

[@paulpalmer5264]

17 HMR so fast it'll set tannerite off

[@rickdavis4740]

Why does the 17 hmr shoot loose groups until the barrel gets a few rounds through it. Every time i clean mine, the sub moa accuracy drops off for the 1st few rounds. Once I run a few through it, that SOB will punch center out of dimes at 100 yards all damn day!! Can someone please enlighten me on this 8 year mystery of this cartridge

[@echosierra9990]

Your barrel gets seasoned by firing rounds through it. The bullets leave carbon and copper residue, smoothing out microscopic barrel imperfections, leading to better accuracy. When you thoroughly clean your barrel, you remove all of that, so you need to re-season it by firing a few rounds through it.

[@jeffreywilson690]

22 mag all the way, I've owned both

[@thefirstsalty3055]

wish there were more .17 hmr pistols

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Hee,hee,hee....... got one. Savage Striker SS. Turned down $700.

[@thefirstsalty3055]

@@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649 i mean, single shot bolties aren't what i meant by .17 hmr pistols

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

@@thefirstsalty3055 oh, got ya'. Striker is a 7 shot repeater bolt.

[@Joeatsaco69]

Love my 17HMR

[@jonathansonnier3078]

I’m so excited I finally found a .17 HMR IN AN AR PLATFORM SEMI AUTO. I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING. ALEXANDER MADE ONE BUT IT WAS EXPENSIVE BC MAKES ONE FOR $500. Excited to try it. What a sexy lil caliber Also Franklin makes one for a middle of the road price of $1,600 but it’s not 17 HMR ITS 17 WSM which the amm can be hard to find Anyways super excited bc I have a 17 HMR AND A 350 legend on the way I choose the 350 legend over the 450 bushmaster because I saw some ballistics testing and the 350 legend was pushing through 1/4 in steel easily but tve 450 bushmaster could not make it through 1/4 in steel. I’m guessing because of the projectile weight Is there really anything better than guns and the excitement of having a new gun on the way… I’ll wait lol 😂

[@Robert-fs1pb]

Valquartsen makes the 17 hmr, they did make the 17wsm but I don't know if they still do.Their based out of Iowa the company.Your favorite gun shop could order you one.Their semi- auto.

[@bobbythompson3544]

Loved this discussion, Thankyou guys for what we ended up with, my favourite rifle, I had 223 but wasn’t able to enjoy it anymore because of big C, so I got an HMR made by CZ! I didn’t miss the 223 after that and I was back shooting vermin again! 😊

[@markburke2533]

I LOVE THE 17 HMR.

[@lrharner]

love my HMR savage heavy barrel best group at 100yd 5 rounds .331 on center. was Vmax 17 gr amazing combo

[@airgunslugslingers]

👍👍

[@hamspud35]

Love your podcasts. Really like the stories and the accuracy😊

[@hornady]

Thanks so much!

[@BillRodgers2]

Need 17wsm

[@chrisfisher3900]

We need a 6mm prc and 22 ARC

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

Would the 6 PRC be hotter or milder than the 6 Creedmoor?

[@MyLonewolf25]

@@DanielReyes-hz1qk hotter

[@chrisfisher3900]

@@DanielReyes-hz1qk hotter. On high end could launch 110’s around 3400-3500

[@heathadams1274]

​@@chrisfisher3900and 65/75 gr VMAXs about 4300

[@iBleedStarsAndBars]

Thank yall for my favorite rimfire cartridge

[@mercury8180]

I love my tikka t1x 17hmr and would not swap it for any cal. I use it for fox crows rabbit etc here in Scotland. Thank you guys very much for your excellent work at Hornady

[@hornady]

Good to hear

[@Weatherby406]

After shooting .17wsm and hmr I might as well throw away my 10/22

[@chrisfisher3900]

17 WSM pretty much killed the hmr. Only reason it’s not as big is availability

[@ronsorrentino6207]

I’ll gladly take that 10/22. 😬

[@michaelweber6034]

Man oh man, you guys really hate prairie dogs! 😅 great show.

[@PNW-LOGGING-HOMESTEAD]

Ive got about 500rnds of hornady 17hmr. That i stopped shooting because of irratic shooting due to the case necks splitting. Has anyone else had this issue? If so. Does anyone know why this was happening? The new cci stuff doesn't split

[@hornady]

Shoot us an email at [e-mail]

[@williamsweet7511]

I love your channel, Erik Cortina is saying that more neck room might be better. He states he is chambering 5 to 6 thousands on the throat. What happens is the cartridge detonates, the neck opens to the size of the chamber, fire form, and that allows the bullet to go down the barrel without any influence from the neck of the brass. At least that's how I understand it. I don't think he is saying the bigger the better, but that there needs to be a little room for the neck of the brass to get out of the way and it will if there is 5 to 6 thousands space. Funny how there can be a room full of scientist/engineers and they all have different opinions on how to do something better or the best. Again, love the channel and keep the videos coming.

[@ewathoughts8476]

You are confusing .005" to .006" at the chamber neck as at the throat. The throat is the portion after the case mouth. The cartridge does not detonate, the primer does. The detonation energy of the primer ignites the powder and the powder burns rapidly, but if all is well the propellant does not detonate. Clearance adjustment at the neck can affect the timing of bullet release as the pressure builds. If the case neck clearance is too tight (.001" to .003")the bullet will release, but the brass will drag unevenly against bullet causing uneven release. The freebore portion of the throat needs to be tight enough to align the bullet with the bore, but not so tight that a minor diameter tolerance of the bullet would cause an interference fit. About .0004" to .0006" is required to insure that modern manufactured bullets will be safe.

[@williamsweet7511]

@@ewathoughts8476 thanks for the reply, sometimes I'm afraid to ask questions. Never know how people will respond. thanks again.

[@ukwan]

Best small game cartridge 🐰👍

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

Not for eating what you shoot.

[@rex8958]

It’s my fist year with the HM2, bought a new savage heavy barrel last December. Hasn’t failed yet, pigeons, striped gophers, squirrels and a raccoon at 120 yards, no problemo. Lucky enough to find ammo at old prices in some local shops, should be sitting good for a while

[@ewathoughts8476]

After some study of the SAAMI and CIP cartridge and chamber prints, it appears the bullet is allowed to be up to .0005" larger than the freebore diameter. This is a small interference fit. Is part of the inherent accuracy achieved by using a slight swage to fit system, or is the drawings available on the SAAMI and CIP websites in error? I can see where seating the bullet in the case just so the ogive just touches the freebore start might have some factor in the accuracy. However, if the bullet was seated in the cartridge a bit farther out there could be the possibility of sticking a bullet in the freebore and if the shooter had to eject the round unfired, that could be a problem. I do not have any ammo available currently to check how far the bullet shank protrudes from the case mouth at the moment.

[@jwhodson]

I was playing cat and mouse with a red squirrel up a pine tree with my hmr and i would just get to see enough of him and he would dart around the tree. A friend told me he had great luck with his 22 cal airgun scope doing that just catching the top of their head so i put a 2-7 bsa air gun scope on my hmr and that thing is amazing at close range shots i can focus down to 11’ and still pull a 200 yard shot on a squirrel on a field edge. When i leave the range i almost always have an empty ammo box of 17 hmr no matter what. We have a competition at the end with our 17’s of shooting out the staples holding up our targets after we are done. They are just that accurate.