Ep. 114: X/C Navigation Log | VFR Cross Country Nav Log Calculations

[@lukecole6203]

You know you’re confident when you do the whole thing with a pen

[@PilotDaveAviation]

I thought of the same thing !! Lol

[@allenustianowski9757]

You got that right!

[@allenustianowski9757]

I watch this video AGAIN, 6 months from the first time I watch it and it makes perfect sense now! First time I watched it I was totally lost, but now it make perfect sense. This video is more for an advanced student vs a new student and a great refresher! Good job.

[@lukecole6203]

@@allenustianowski9757 Lol, I haven't watched it in over a year. I'm about to go for my CFI checkride next week. I now can use a pen Update: I passed my cfi and cfii checkrides and am now instructing

[@dartagnantapler7150]

Erasable pen gang

[@mrboss20ten]

I love your videos. I have a pretty decent understanding of the nav log stuff, but this was easily the most confusing video I've seen on the channel.

[@WoutervanTiel]

Seriously archaic! This is exactly why computers were invented. Very nice to still be able to do this by hand and a great learning tool to get how the information is derived, but it is inexact, prone to making mistakes and slow. You did a nice job putting it together though.

[@misaelcruz5443]

This video is definitely more intended for pilots who have done Navlogs before and need to refresh. I could not imagine a Student Pilot being able to follow along. Great video though

[@colbyjamesreynolds1516]

As a student pilot that makes me feel a lot better😂

[@haber1259]

@@colbyjamesreynolds1516 one year later, do you better understand this video? I'm a student and I thought I was lagging way behind watching this.

[@jasonbower9515]

Trying to prep for check ride. Also very very lost. Feels really overwhelming

[@RealWoutLies]

At several minutes in, I tuned out. Rapid/overwhelming info isn't useful to this 60 yo student. It's a great refresher, I'm sure. But...

[@josephtorres3522]

Yup pretty hard to follow along lol I have mi iPad,calculator, charts, nav log and still can’t keep up lol

[@JeffroBodine1947]

I think I'll just walk!!!

[@TheRealAndaar]

My dad was born and raised in Charlotte, MI...thank you for pronouncing it correctly!

[@colewhetzel8651]

You just made this seem impossible honestly I can’t comprehend half of the things you’re talking about cause you start talking about something else before I even have the chance to comprehend what you were just talking about. Thanks for making this seem impossible!

[@2Greenlid]

Cole, it’s called learning. Study for a few months & it will seem easy..just takes patience..

[@PaulGarthAviation]

What's *really* rewarding is, after doing all this stuff manually, is actually doing the X-C -- and it ALL freakin' works out really close to plan.

[@marshallyoung7866]

There are literally 113 tutorial videos before this finale to most PPL cadets. Any man can appreciate all the efforts that this man has put into this tutorial series.

[@rtoms1969]

This was extremely helpfull. To those that think he went too fast...note the pause and rewind capabilites of youtube. Magic!

[@johnkeith8023]

Ron Toms preach it Ron

[@JeffroBodine1947]

Jon, you have lost your ever loving mind.!! I ain't never going anywhere if I have to do all of this!!

[@hessamstar]

Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! I know it must’ve taken you forever to make the video but you are helping a lot of student pilots

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Appreciate the comment and thanks for watching!

[@allenustianowski9757]

I totally agree with Hesam's comment. This was a huge help for me. Little fast, but that's why they make the replay button. A lot of assumptions and you may not every get this detailed but totally agree you should know how and why you do this.

[@mattsflightadventures284]

All these negative comments but I must say, This helped me out. I did a ground lesson with my instructor then watched this video. Made everything link into place in my brain. Sure, most have gps navigation today but for folks needing to learn the basics this is great..

[@philipstrugar587]

I'm a new CFI, and have assigned this video to all of my students in the cross country stage.

[@DirectFTNSS]

I've been assigned this video and I don't even have my private pilots license yet XD

[@MichaelRicksAherne]

Great video! Heads up that in the 172, your enroute climb can be higher than the table. (See 172S POH, section 4-25, "Enroute Climb: Normal enoute climbs are performed with flaps up and full throttle *at speeds 5 to 10 knots higher than the best rate-of-climb speeds* for the best combination of performance, visibility and engine cooling.") So you can round up 5-10 knots as needed to get even numbers, and you're technically following the manual even more precisely. ;)

[@reydogmotor]

Thanks for reminding me why I didn’t do well in this area. But I did get it once upon a time. So, now I’m trying to get back into it and hoping to better understand this again.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

You can do it!

[@dylanreichstadt8997]

Thanks for making this! I learned the Plotting & Wind/GPH Conversions separately, so it's good to see all of this put together. While some say you're going too fast, I appreciate the brevity and can easily go to a more detailed video if needed for the particular component.

[@Victordamus98]

Agreed. Could have gone a bit slower on the calculations with the E6B.

[@pappybo49]

Wow! That was fun. I haven’t used that stuff in years, just brushing up reminds me what flying was really all about when I was learning to fly in the ‘60s. Thanks for reminding me that we didn’t need gps or an autopilot to fly. I’ve so lazy I fly a glass panel and an autopilot on my bush plane Simulator. Thanks again for sharing your expertise. I always enjoy your videos !

[@mjjstang]

I just spent my night planning a xc in Xplane. Using this video i was able to plan a 51 min flight that ended up being 52 minutes. Landing wasnt so great. Now to find someone to teach me in the real thing. I also cheated and calculated a vor radial and distance to vor as a checkpoint but to be fair, the computer graphics dont lend well to VFR checkpoints. Thanks for this great vid. Oh and I'll echo how i feel this way is useless with GPS but if FAA wants me to learn it, so be it......

[@davidsosa5369]

At 10:40 How is the temperature -10 degrees centigrade at cruising altitude if your flying 4500? You have -6 on the surface and you're cruising at 4500. Don't you lose -2 degrees per thousand feet? I feel like numbers are being thrown around here.

[@andybader]

That is standard lapse rate, which is a theoretical assumption. He's interpolating using the winds aloft forecast.

[@marinamonpere5633]

Excellent , very detailed explanation that tied together learnt theory about performance calculations and all that "true-calibrated-indicated-ground-pressure-density" etc etc to practice . Thanks for posting!

[@hadidididi]

As a Canadian ppl holder, revisiting your works help me set a starting point in my material reviews. Good to have you back in the few valuable instructors pool.

[@KennyWeslax]

I have that same pen, used it to plot my first cross country today also using this video. Small world man, small world.

[@1UTUBEUSERNAME]

New drinking game. Every time OP says "go ahead" have a shot or a beer.

[@kimberlywentworth9160]

Doing Nav logs by hand really makes you appreciate Foreflight. You have to do this manually like this so that you understand what is going on. Then when you get Foreflight you are amazed. I still like to use the paper maps and platting at times to be sure I find the correct VFR points. I also like the paper Nav log because it has all of the infor on paper in one place. Be nice if There was one in excel that would help with the manual calculations.

[@Smokeybear69420]

Your phone vibrating at around 18:45 tripped me out I thought I was getting a call lol

[@DanWeecks]

This is exactly what I needed! Reviewing nav logs was on my to do list for today, so I'll definitely watch this. Thanks for your awesome videos Jon!

[@esalenchik]

Will You’re aware that the video can be slowed down and replayed over and over, right? Creators can’t win on YT. Comments like “video was too long”, “not long enough”, “too much explanation”, “not enough...” Perhaps naysayers should try putting in all the hard graft to create their own videos before finding fault?

[@LostInSpace175]

starting commercial soon...crazt how u can forget some basic such as toc.. lol

[@SteveW60ish]

After watching all of this I am so far behind that I actually think I'm ahead. My plan B - take up sailing . . .

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Wouldn't check out just yet....sitting down with the right CFI for 30 minutes or so can usually sort all that out!

[@SteveW60ish]

Thanks - just started my PPL on Sunday - at age 59 - your videos are amazing and will be checking in as a patron.

[@flyer9544]

Follow your dreams...

[@goldie9864]

@@SteveW60ish Seeing this comment 5yrs after you posted....hope you got the PPL. I started late too (50), just solo'd and x-country is next. Slower to learn than when I was a teen.

[@mikemike6096]

I appreciate the technology nowadays, but I still respect this type of planning and It's how I learned years ago. E6B, it's been a few moons since I've used that calculator, haha

[@automaster209]

Do you factor in declination? Magnetic north is usually off by a few degrees depending on the time of year.

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

So, I totally get the system and the math, AND I thank GOD for the electronic Flight Navigation calculations that SkyVector or Foreflight do FOR YOU

[@suzukirider9030]

Thank the programmers ;-)

[@yogevbarshavit]

Awesome video Jon. Now that I’m so close to the check ride, I needed this video desperately.

[@jfrankfather]

Thanks for your investment of time. That was a very good explanation of cross country planning.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Of course... Glad it helped ya!

[@davidvanniekerk3813]

Dankie/ Merci. It is much better to understand. MMmm.... 1 gal = 3.7L! 50Gal = 185L quite expensive too. Thanx for the video.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Glad it helped ya!

[@davidvanniekerk3813]

@@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 Thnx. To make good decisions, you must have good info. How to get out of ZA (and back)? Now, sins 1994, things have really change. There is only two ways. Ship of plane. Ship is cheaper and longer.(2 Kind of ships: Cat.[slow]) & Classic [slower] Plane is fast and expensive.! The closest First world land is St. Helena (Eng) & Reunion (Fr). It was not in that video. Airport tax in is also a factor. $150 for a international airport and municipal airport is $100. What kind of small plane can make the jump? What is the last international airport on the ZA side? Durban/ King Chaka Zulu or Nelspruit-Kruger International? Lots of information... I

[@timschiro4140]

Your video was very helpful. Excellent job!

[@kingck101]

pilots phone starter kit, E6B, AvWeather, Tinder and bumble

[@flyhigh4fun]

Yeaa I think hes more confident to show his phone apps than his flight plan knowledge lol Tinder 🔥🤣

[@ritchierich2820]

I feel like everyone does cross country planning differently 😒

[@DICEcontent]

And every single flight plan log looks different

[@simauriveiro6340]

Yeap !

[@loner_3586]

I swear🙅😂

[@myotherusername9224]

and every time you get in a new cockpit, the controls/instruments/seating, ergonomics, etc., are all different. What's the same? Physics, chemistry and gravity. Maths. The basics: www.amazon.com/Stick-Rudder-Explanation-Art-Flying/dp/0070362408 I once read a story by a guy who had the great good fortune once upon a time to right seat with Yeager in a seaplane Yeager had never flown. He said Yeager's every landing was *perfect*. Did you know Yeager used to own a Part 103 Quicksilver? I think the more different ways I learn to do something,the more firmly I grasp the underlying essentials. Variety: it's a feature, not a bug.

[@PaulGarthAviation]

Yeah. Everyone gets to their destination... eventually.... LOL!

[@808_murda2]

No way? You're from Michigan too? Have you ever flown to ptk or ozw?

[@georgemathisen3805]

Regarding the altimeter setting to obtain pressure altitude for cruise; would it be suggested to get the pressure setting for the departure airport and the destination airport and average it out to get a better estimate for the altimeter aloft to have a better understanding of what the cruise performance is?

[@RelaxinRoy]

Good gouge, but gotta say the PA-28-181 (Archer III) POH did not make things easy. Figuring GS is still tough. I had to do a lot of hitting the pause button, and replay to get this down. Still, THANKS A MILLION. This is the best video I've been able to find on the subject.

[@jondale4348]

I feel your pain on the Old Piper POH :)

[@Capitulum11]

OMG just do it!

[@orlandospencer]

Thank you for this video. cleared up some stuff for me with using this log. just started using this format Nav Log

[@ritchierich2820]

For the cruise performance chart did you use the temperature aloft or did you just use the airports temperature? Same for the altimeter setting ?

[@king_georgieo57]

It's kinda funny how this episode is #114, my long dual night xc is 114 nm in total! Cool coiwinkydink

[@parkerispositive]

Big swag shout out to Ken Burrs @ NAFC for showing me this before my x-country 🐐

[@alejandrosanchez2222]

Thanks man! Great video and explanations, definitely won a subs

[@ahmadtheaviationlover1937]

this is just pure maths, I found the VFR cross country flying hard!!!

[@2Phast4Rocket]

The FAA allows you to use the electronic EB6 computer in the written exam now and I am perplexed why the DPE still require people to fill this out. It is literally done once during the check ride and will never be done again. What is the use of the exercise again?

[@floatingbunt3929]

Your use of the E6-B is painfully vague

[@babyboi0103]

Everything he explained was painfully vague for a student pilot who's never done a lot before. Such as my life with most CFIs

[@stonewall5792]

Floating Bunt You don’t have to use a old e6-b, especially on check-rides.

[@Maxmilion6004]

@@stonewall5792 are you sure?

[@JetUpKoala]

Max Sperlich Maybe past PPL?

[@Maxmilion6004]

I agree with these comments about cfis being horrible at teaching this shit and it really comes off as they dont want to do it but have to. Its fucking annoying. Check out part time pilors channel. I went from being pissed off and confused to plotting my own shit from weight to balance to performance and climbs in a half an hour. He makes things so easy to understand and breaks it down. Again part time pilot. These otger cfis on youtube never get back to people. Unless something negative is said. People alays respond to negativity. Its sad. But most of the courses are like ask questions and we will get right back to you and you can see unanswered questions from 2 years ago

[@ele4853]

with the speed you speak, this is good for those that know the subject. why would the ones knowing the subject watch it this? oh, ok to pad you on the back...

[@FisVii77]

do you teach out of willow run or ann arbour, no rush on response, I like the way you teach, appreciate all your videos and experience thanks mike.

[@joshuaAviate]

How do you expect the altimeter setting if you're planning to fly the next day?

[@Mooja12]

Same question here. I got to the 8 min mark and stopped because i'm unable to predict future barometric pressure.

[@MH-uz2wy]

Dude flies through the E6B instructions like speedy Gonzalez. It would be a great video if he actually SLOWED DOWN and taught like it was someone's FIRST TIME

[@ShawnCampbellFlynBetty]

I know this video is already long but, He spoke to fast and went way to fast through this. thank goodness for the pause button. Also, I like filling in all the squares. Overall, I like this guys style of teaching.

[@PhilMcGowan]

Thanks @fly8ma this was hugely helpful as I do my first cross country flight plan by hand! To those saying this is too fast or confusing, if you can’t follow along with this you might want to review ground school again...

[@rrz464]

Thank you for this vid. Definitely helped out as I planned my first XC from BJC to CYS.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Glad it helped! Check out the site for more vids: www.fly8ma.com

[@goodisnipr]

Fantastic, now a challenge for the viewers is to do it all again with the RPM at 2.1k to see if there's a fuel savings.

[@captainnickgyver5593]

This was so helpful, thank you! One thing I'm confused on: Why didn't you take into effect/interpolate the Temps for the time,fuel and distance to climb chart? The chart at sea level lists standard temp but the temp for the flight is -6.

[@toddw6716]

your the best! good easy to follow.

[@piperpilot44253]

Best video for X country planning. Perfect to send to my students.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Glad that it helped!!

[@avia3089]

This is so difficult but understandable

[@darellgaray3817]

Where did he get the winds aloft on 13:14, I feel like if he got for the wrong airport.

[@carlsonlemos9927]

Great video! Thanks

[@pabloendara5285]

great instructing.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Happy it helped ya!

[@fobypawz418]

after watching this, it seems Speeds, Winds, Temperature, Air Density, Fuel consumption, those few little things seems to create alot of challenges when trying to find a single landmark without GPS!

[@andybader]

Really drives home the importance of pilotage and picking out good reference checkpoints!

[@samuelsoane4237]

this video help me a lot thanks

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Happy to hear that!

[@elunico13]

I always give your videos thumbs up. Great resources!

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Thanks! Share us on Facebook and with your friends around the airport to spread the word!!!

[@fish7days]

Very timely !! Comm checkride coming up !!! Great vid as always !!

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Glad it helps! The commercial checkride prep course is almost live on the site at www.fly8ma.com !

[@goodisnipr]

2:53 But by drawing a straight line from center of airfield to center of airfield, you are doing yourself a disservice. Should you not know which runways will be used and draw your main line from the top of climbout to the top of glideslope so you can truly fly a straight course? Or, do you really overfly the center of each airfields?

[@HistoricalWonder720]

Pro tip, use the 60 minutes used for planning and get in the car and get a head start.

[@mrAZcardinal]

@The Punisher is he wrong though

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

"Where we're going there are no roads!!!!"

[@seetheworldwithben747]

I guess i was really paying attention to your video, i even saw your Tinder app on your phone. Lol

[@Dan007UT]

For PPL practical test, do you do all of this before it starts or while the DPE is over your shoulder?

[@suzukirider9030]

Beforehand, typically. Which is kind of moot, because the most volatile part - wind correction - makes the most sense to do immediately prior to the flight. But the DPEs also know you'll probably never ever do this in your life again, so they let you do it at home and bring a properly filled but out-of-touch with reality nav log to the exam. Sigh.

[@jamiehord1009]

It is my dream to build an All-Electric Ultralight airplane and fly it all around the country because I will be able fly from AM civil twilight to PM civil twilight and will not be limited by my gas tank. I'm learning about flying with a map & compass as a backup method. I'm sure I will map out off my routes with a paper map along with using my GPS just in-case I have electronic issues in mid flight. I will continue flying without my GPS.

[@rutherforddebrave3824]

I must take exception with using TOC/TODas checkpoints on the flight plan.....

[@poolecw]

They are valid and should be used as they require different fuel consumptions as well as different distances/air speeds than when in cruise flight. Also, your ETE and ETA will be off if you do not account for TOC and TOD properly.

[@juliuscaesar172]

hey man awesome video!!! this helped me loads

[@dougkehoe3758]

What plane is that?...Aerostar? With overhead lites? Analog is the gateway mathma . Wish u did more math on the wiz wheel...quick 1-2-3s always worked for me. This then that. I’m liking my fly8MA hoodie!

[@WinginWolf]

Just top it off when flying short distances :P. Takes me a while to fill in the navlog, and I also get sort of picky when it comes to marking distances on the map. Even though climbout may take "5 nautical miles", I know I have to climb out to 1000ft AGL before I can even begin my turn to course, so I may arrive to top of climb at an earlier point since I did a bit of detouring before arriving on course. Flying out of busy, towered airports makes it trickier since you're likely to get vectored around before you can proceed on course (I was several miles North of my plotted course due to vectoring but eventually made it on course).

[@kentuckysugarbear9644]

Loved this. Super helpful. But 42.1 minus 2 does not equal 42 gallons. Still loved the video. Keep them coming!

[@ruslanmubarakzyanov252]

Thank you very much!It’s very helpful!

[@paulraymond3622]

Why not use the e6b for time? Why not figure fuel as accurately as possible and then apply a calculated margin of error? Maybe 25% more, 30% more? What ever you as PIC are OK with, at least you know instead of, well I added 'some' more Mr. NTSB Investigator. Just a though, take it or leave it.

[@chrisjavier1767]

The last part, at 37:53 in the video, you said "42.1, and another 2 gallons for messing around/margin..." Where the total you wrote is 42.1, if it was 42.1 to start, and you're burning those extra 2 gallons, wouldn't the total be 40.1 instead of 40.2? Maybe I'm missing something or didn't understand something, new student pilot over here so please correct me if I am!

[@uptown4life13]

20:00 i have no idea what youre doing with the numbers altitude and temp. no explanation on a tricky part. ill have to look elsewhere for teachings

[@AaronHartwell]

Great video! Thanks for taking the time to make it!

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Of course!! Feel free to share it around with your flying friends!

[@bobbysmith7101]

I'm really not getting how you get TAS in the climb. I know how to get it for "Cruise" but how for the climb. Time, fuel, distance says speed in KIAS

[@nathanmcguire932]

Generally, the POH should have a conversion chart for KIAS to KCAS, and once you have KCAS, you can use an E6B to get KTAS

[@suzukirider9030]

dear god... I'll do this once, for my PPL checkride. Or if I ever need to fly several hundred miles over the ocean in a pre-digital aircraft with a 6-pack. Where a paper map, the mechanical compass, an airspeed indicator and a wristwatch - would be my only means to guestimate my position and find the island or aircraft carrier - the only place I could land, within hundreds of miles of open ocean. But, only an insane pilot would actually go through all this before a local VFR flight within the continent. Even an interstate one. Heck even an IFR one...

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

It gets quicker and much easier if you practice 👍

[@muffinman6739]

Great informative video, just have trouble seeing what you put down on the nav log because your finders are in the way most of the time.

[@humberto367]

Hello, could you please share this nav log in PDF? Thanks!

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

The nav log is available online. Here is the link vsl.aero/PP_navlog.pdf

[@The_R_Vid]

Not a pilot, though I did follow what you did here. I've never thought about much you'd need to write down in flight. What do you recommend for a left handed pilot flying something like a Cirrus, with a side stick? Should that pilot fly from the right seat, but then they'd be farther from the instruments. Or are lefties limited only to flying aircraft with yokes? Or regularly use autopilot to free up their writing hand to record instructions from ATC?

[@FlyingJournalism]

@ 22:14 ..how many dates did Jon get on tinder after this video🤷‍♂️🍾? I bet a lot!👍👍👏

[@badgerfishinski6857]

What is standard temperature at 4,500 feet? Since sea level its 15C. and we know a standard temp lapse rate is 2C per 1000 feet, would the standard temp @ 4,500 be 6C? Please validate. Thank you.

[@devilik3692]

yup, dude a bit clueless on what he does yet being confident on some bs he does, i say it as cfi lol

[@EngineerPrepper]

Do you have a pdf version of that nav log to follow along?

[@kimberlywentworth9160]

The winds where I fly can change quite a bit where fly. I am am getting old 8 hour old wind data.

[@firepilot109]

Great videos!

[@oofmcgoof6386]

Lol my flight school gave me this video to work with, turns out it’s exactly the same thing I’m doing - KARB to KFPK

[@adenpoller5121]

Very helpful. Thank you

[@miguelalejandrina]

We don’t average winds aloft. We interpolate them.

[@Peterpeterpumpkineater1000]

If your true course changes (like slightly alternating course for way points) do you have to find new TAS and GS?

[@petegerst1015]

can someone send me a pdf of this navlog sheet? haven’t found anything better. Thanks in advance and for an awesome video

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

On our website at fly8ma.com/

[@li0nh3art302]

Thanks for the video, you did a great job!