Ep. 199 | Get Up to Speed on Chronographs

[@edwardkawecki8101]

My opinion about this podcast is it was a lot of idle conversation and not enough about chronographs as stated in the title. You guys should have done some factual research about chronographs and then produced your video. My opinion is anyone looking for quality chronograph information would be to skip this video and search on.

[@Spin-Drift-Ballistics]

Amen Brother... we'll said. I punched out of this early on. I could see they don't have much useful information to put out. 😅

[@khpjackson1]

I agree. Most of the time I got the feeling they were guessing most of the time. You guys need to do better.

[@Joe-hz1nw]

Thanks

[@gebogen1383]

Arg, I wish you guys had produced this about a hundred episodes ago. Interesting to better understand the limitations of the old Caldwell chrono. Thanks.

[@VortexNation]

Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@ericharrison5724]

The philosophy of the rich and the poor is this: the rich invest their money and spend what is left. The poor spend their money and invest what is left.”

[@monicajones2789]

How many millionaires do you know who have become wealthy by Investing in savings account? I rest my case.

[@dorisfloyd935]

It's not how much money you keep,but how much money you make,how hard it works for you and how many generations you keep it for.

[@dianec.657]

Interesting,most people don't understand the market moves and tend to be mislead infacts like this and always depend on Money in the bank very bad idea.

[@nataliewatson3501]

People like me are scared of investing in commodities because of the rate of unprofessionals today,but this is awesome just made a few research about him,he is good,wow

[@lucasanderson1970]

I'm happy to see Mr Richard Emerson mentioned,he is recognized in the society,My wife recommended him to me after Investing £1000 and he has really helped us in times of this bad pandemic crisis

[@michaeldarlington3758]

The Caldwell g2 in the far back (detector on top) has an advertised accuracy of + or - 0.25%. That’s 20 times less than the 5% they mentioned multiple times for the old school light detection style chronos. It’s in the middle of the advertised 0.1 to 0.5% accuracy of the magneto speed. That 0.25% is 7.5 FPS for a 3000 FPS velocity. So the difference in accuracy shouldn’t be a factor in selecting which of the styles you choose.

[@dklopp]

Measuring instruments are typically specified as % error over full scale range. So =/- .25% is over the entire measurement range of 9,999 FPS, which is +/-25 FPS. This makes sense when you think about measurement fidelity at the low end of the range. The G2 will not give you +/-.25% at 5 FPS. Given that these are measuring tools, it would be nice if they all listed accuracy AND repeatability specs...

[@paulnelson9907]

Guys Radar is not a sound detection system here is a definition of Radar. "A system for detecting the presence, direction, distance, and speed of aircraft, ships, and other objects, by sending out pulses of high-frequency electromagnetic waves that are reflected off the object back to the source."

[@bennett338able]

We are talking Doppler, not traditional radar. Here is the definition of Doppler, as you can see, it is looking for a return (sound) Doppler radar sends the energy in pules and listens for any returned signal. The phase shift effect is similar to the "Doppler shift" observed with sound waves. With the "Doppler shift", the sound pitch of an object moving toward your location is higher due to compression (a change in the phase) of sound waves

[@novicereloader]

​@@bennett338ableincorrect. It's still measuring electromagnetic radiation and returning wave differential.

[@RandyCFP]

Fantastic podcast guys. Came up on my Google Feed and I'm in the market for a Chronograph, so gave it a listen on my ride to and from work. Now rewatching on KZbin. Liked and Subscribed. Looking forward to more great content. I've got to search for the other two Podcasts with Ian and Tony...

[@SpetsnazBear-3710]

Interesting :-) I have the Caldwell Chrono BP Kit...It was the one I could afford... and so far, have no issues or problems with it. I set it up correctly, fire from a good distance, take a mean average over 5 shots and "Bob's your uncle". I think it is better than nothing. To add... I see better shooters than I who use this same Kit and they seem to be 'happy'. Now when it comes to Ian, he is in a whole different world/universe than I. Great to listen to him on any subject.

[@novicereloader]

You're not wrong. Some of the things stated here are incorrect.

[@craigschaefer8764]

Excellent discussion guys. My favorite chrono is the Magneto, for the simple reason that it’s paid for! 🤣🤣

[@Dmounts]

Just got my magneto speed and tested it today! It’s awesome and just like you guys said it acted like a tuner. Loves y’all’s podcasts!

[@johnnybbgunner2136]

Thanks. I just received my Pro Chronograph DLX for indoor Airgun shooting and realized I needed the light kit for it to even work.

[@jmkhenka]

I have magnetospeed and have used labradar. Both have their uses. Magnetospeed works with everything i tested it on - .177, .22 PCP, 22LR, 308 and 300 winmag and 45-70. Labradar is cool but can be distrupted by the geography of the shooting range. If you have burms at diffrent distances labradar might have issue picking up the bullet in the wasback. Radar is a acromym for "Radio Detection and Ranging". Devices like shotmarker uses the sonic boom of the bullet. Same with 2-box chrony. There is system like shotmarker that only shows impact location, but shotmarker has 2 sensors in each sensor cluster so it can calulate the velocity from the sound moving

[@Guadalupeaencinas]

Donut media up to speed! You needed the 80s arcade music after you said it😂

[@justhereforthecomments.]

🧠

[@stevesiever6635]

Hey guys, great show as always! I have both the Magneto and the Lab radar. The issue I have with the magneto is if it gets bumped at a public range where they make you remove your firearm from the bench at every all clear. Its gets destroyed if that happens Done! buy a new one! You have to check it every time! If you move the lab radar on the gun say it gets moved the worse thing that can happen is you get an error message! FYI I had to bug a new one on the first shot I ever shot using the device! I checked it didn’t look wrong! It was! $279 mistake. So thats an issue that didn’t come up and trust me that mount is not that sturdy and the shims ate a joke! Get it wrong ? It gets destroyed !

[@bennett338able]

always bore sight before firing again, would have helped you avoid this mistake.

[@jmkhenka]

In sweden, and the other scandinavian countries, there is 4 distinct classes of animals. Each corresponds to a minimum bullet weight and energy at certain distance. In sweden the largest is class 1, thats the largest animals here (largest deers, moose, bear, wild bore), and they say 140 grain with energy at 100 meters of 2700 J or 156 grain e100 of 2000 J. Class 2 is the next, here we have roe deer and smaller animals. There we have a min weight of 50 grain and E100 of 800. In practice, 6.5mm is the smallest caliber to hunt moose with and mostly just with 156gr bullets (as 140 is a bit tough in older rifles to get over the limit). 222-223, 243 and 6mm and lower is class 2. 22 hornet, 9x19, 22 wmr is class 3 and in class 4 we have 22LR, 17hmr (due to weight, as the class 3 is 40gr min weight) and some unlucky 204 rugers that cant stabilize 40gr bullets. So if you load ammo yourself you need to respect those limits. For store bought ammo/factory loadings the producer takes responsibility but here they have leeway for barrel lenghts.

[@insatiable_mind]

I just bought ProChrono DLX from Competition Electronics with an advertised accuracy of 0.5%. It’s made in USA and inexpensive ($145 retail) and seemed like a good starter. It’s definitely only that uses light. It works with Bluetooth and an App. Hopefully the accuracy is as advertised. I knew nothing about chronographs when I bought it but I feel like I know a lot more now.

[@donm2067]

How has it worked for you? I am having issues with mine.

[@Extaordignarly]

I have owned 2 of those. Love the app and bluetooth. However, they're both in the trash now. It is a starter unit for sure. Missing shots has ruined way too many ladder tests. Too much effort to be messed up by a crappy chrono. Im getting lab radar or magneto v3

[@tylerford88]

My magnetospeed v3 and mk machining magnetospeed "off barrel" mount together were cheaper than the lab radar. It's a bit of setup and take down but I can shoot long range at different angles alongside different shooters and don't worry about it.

[@jasonmelby6221]

I enjoyed listening to the discussion as I am in the process of looking for a chrono. I wish you guys would do a side by side field comparison with all 4 to compare the accuracy. It’s great the magneto speed and lab radar both are close, but how do the caldwells compare. The magneto speed isn’t a good option for me as I need it for archery as well. So it come down to the lab radar or one of the Caldwell options. I’m leaning toward the Caldwell simply based on cost, but accuracy is important.

[@CompetitionChris]

Did you end up getting a light based chronograph?

[@Tyanmax99]

Which one would you guys recommend for someone that only wants to work up a couple different hunting caliber loads? I'm only reloading 3 calibers and once I get the results I'm looking for I won't tinker too much.

[@bennett338able]

go with the magnetospeed, especially if you are running hunting rifles with no handgaurd, you can get the sporter version for under 200.

[@compted10]

As an RF engineer who is also into reloading, I want to correct the record and state that the lab radar is emitting 24.080 to 24.168 GHz radio frequency waves not sound waves. It just uses the sound of a shot to trigger the system.

[@madhtrr]

Guys ... labradar does *not use sound waves*. It uses doppler radar. Sound is sonar. And think about it. How are you going to bounce a sound wave off of a supersonic bullet?

[@semperfi6288]

39:05 I'm wondering if a rebated boat tail would help this condition. Because instead of the projectile flying through a turbulent ball of gas thats flying out in front of the projectile, hitting the device and then bouncing backup at the bullet, it has a better seal in the bore and the gases acting on the rebate when it exits the crown, creates a ring of gas around the projectile so it can fly through clean, non-turbulant air. Or the shock front created by the projectile itself creating a high pressure zone between the chrono and the bullet.

[@1175drh]

I love the lab radar or garmin option, however i bought the magneto because at my range we shoot through 6' x 20' drainage pipe.

[@AnkhEmFentu]

Do you count the length of the silencer also to the length of the barrel?

[@aussiesteveakastevecallagh2280]

Great stuff Guys thank you very well explained session .

[@darrendays9666]

Can you provide details on the battery pack discussed that was being used for the Lab Radar?

[@tonyzhu403]

MORE POWER BABY!! 😆

[@dave9116]

I've had optical chrono's, eventually they all got shot, not an issue with the LabRadar. Likewise, it does not effect the POI. You mentioned several times that LabRadar is complicated and that's not. Yes, you do need to know how to set it up but it's not hard do do. I use mine at the range with other guys at the benches around me and only had issues with their blast when I first got it. You can tune it to work with your setup without picking up shots from others. I shoot with a can and the guy next to me might have a brake on his gun, they still will work. Just got to know your equipment.

[@timfarley6493]

I use a MagnatoSpeed V3, and it fits my needs.

[@chipsterb4946]

CED optical chronograph. Distance 10’ for pistol. 12-15’ for rifle. To avoid muzzle blast. It’s useful but finicky about light. And I carry spare Sun screens and supports because … they get shot. What it gives me is extreme spread and standard deviation of velocities. Not perfect but still useful. And for my purposes it gives me a velocity to confirm “yes this load is within a safe velocity range.” Velocity doesn’t necessarily directly correlate to chamber pressure, but it’s a reasonable proxy added to inspecting cases.

[@davidlothman2786]

Don’t forget the the Labradar gives you the impact energy at zero and on your 5 specific data points if you enter the correct bullet weight 👍🏻

[@bobbogaski2637]

The chronograph does not emit light. It relies on ambient light. The sensors then look for shadow as a projectile passes over

[@bennett338able]

😂really, then what is the included light kit for?

[@novicereloader]

​@@bennett338ableto allow for shadows in low light conditions.

[@cobjread]

So, I just got into reloading for hunting purposes, not precision, and trying to figure out my speeds. I did the old school 300 yard test for drop, and figure I'm in the ballpark, which I expect to be better than just reading the box, or in this case, published velocities, and for now, it'll be good enough. Has anyone tested the old school method against a chronograph to see how close you can ballpark it without the chrono?

[@fivex4756]

I have shot trajectories at the range and calculated muzzle velocity, then borrowed a chrono to confirm a couple times, it came out very close. That of course is with groups maintaining consistent minute of angle.

[@davidyates97]

I had to come find the video just so I could say I appreciate your Kentucky Cobra impression

[@leonardvorhis9514]

Thanks for sharing your time and experience. Re the Labradar: Enclose the first 25 +- yards of the range with sound/radar absorbing/deflecting materials. L

[@SL1CK1307]

Can you do an episode explaining the different data that you get from chronograpgh and what you can do with it. Thanx

[@sf2189]

A lot of the issues related to the lab radar have to do with suppressors or brakes and where you place it in relation to the blast. I used to get very inconsistent readings with my Area419 Hellfire because I had the unit behind the muzzle and thats where the blast was going - it was disturbing the unit - and messing up the calculations. I now use a recoil trigger and make sure that its in the proper location - which for me is six inches from the barrel and a few inches in front (with both my brakes and suppressor) and I have less issues. Still super finicky but works well now. I think the Magneto Speed is more consistent but a pain to set up even with an ARCA based mount (especially when you run suppressed or unsurpassed - the length of the rod changes - plus Magneto speed told their engineers to design a screw head that is tiny and strips easily - which they did brilliantly with big screws with 1.5mm hex holes). Great episode!

[@ronws2007]

Get up to speed on chronographs .... I see what you did there. Clever.

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

Donut 🍩 channel it’s a good channel all the guys over there are really cool. They are 2A advocates also I made a commit on Facebook in regards to second amendment support. And I received a very nice response in regards to they support all the constitutional rights of this country. Including the second amendment it was funny because car channels and sights don’t necessarily have 2A supporters. But it was nice to see when a dip would disrespect the second amendment and others would totally smash them in the comments.

[@kcwestoutdoorclub3232]

Another great podcast, thanks guys!

[@saltycowboy8900]

How much discrepancy should you expect at 300 yards stringing shots at different t velocities from factory ammo. I ranged out my longest possible shots on my whitetail spot yesterday, at 320 I put out 3 shots with Hornady .308 165Gr SST, one hit dead center the following shots were dead center but 3” and 6” below the first shot.

[@warrengreen3217]

Winchester cpx2 was a round that they made with what they called there sliver tip witch was a aluminum tipped bullet

[@joehobbs490]

Very good information.

[@InfamousTactical]

One thing often missed is “cooking “ rounds. Meaning by shooting with a chronograph consistently I have found that you can raise velocities 50-75 FPS just by letting a round in the hot chamber for 30 seconds or more

[@InfamousTactical]

I guess my point is I have learned patterns and timing through shooting with the LabRadar every time I shoot. I’ve found it to be very handy and easy to set up. And almost every time end up letting others try it

[@carterthiessen2664]

Shooting through a chronograph is what opens your eyes to the lies printed on a box of ammunition. I had a box of remington core lokt 270 130gr bullets that, while they had a decent standard deviation, averaged around 2650 fps. That is abysmal velocity. My rifle has a 24 inch barrel, my 130gr handloads push 3200 fps and most other brands 130gr was around 3000.

[@VortexNation]

There are definitely a ton of variables that can cause your velocity to be different from what's found on the box which is why it's so important to use a chronograph.

[@charlesinscore4107]

I have wanted to leave a cell phone down range to see groups. Could phone one talking to phone 2. Accurately do the same for much less?

[@donaldsmith6404]

Donut with the ky cobra. If you know you know.

[@chadillac95]

I lent my magnetospeed to a friend who wanted velocity in his 5.56. It was a rainy day and it wasn't giving him proper readings if it was reading at all. He said it was giving him readings of around 1500 fps on a 16" barrel

[@bennett338able]

he had the sensors to far from bullet path, or needed to adjust sensitivity, does he have a handgaurd on his 16" and if so do you have the V3, or the sporter?

[@chadillac95]

@@bennett338able that's my guess too is that he had the wrong spacer on that

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

The issue with the magneto speed is using it with semi auto striker fired or hammer fired pistols for example Glock’s or cz’s. Yesterday I used well try to use it with my Walther PPQ M1 and my cast reloads. No dice even with the Picatinny rail mount I increase the sensitivity and it was all over the place. Like the first 5 rounds didn’t register with no sensitivity increases. Then I bumped it up to I be 7 it showed 538 FPS and that’s simply not correct. With the load I was using it should have been in the 1100FPS. So I decided will I’ll go to max sensitivity 11 and it was showing 2500 FPS if that was the case my pistol would have blown up. Brass was showing 0 pressure signs and accuracy was decent. And even though that’s what we are looking for proper cycling good accuracy. It’s still nice to know the FPS in pistols maybe I want to really tune the load so I’m not wasting powder. Or maybe I casted up some hollow points and I need to speed up the projectile to get proper expansion with out going over posted max pressure.

[@bennett338able]

It's not designed for pistols.

[@insatiable_mind]

My Lee Reloading book says that powder volume is more consistent than powder weight but it sounds like the PRS guys disagree. Maybe Lee just wanted to sell more powder measures?

[@r68dvr]

they really undersold the Lab Radar, there are other important features available when you read the sd card.

[@larsmurdochkalsta8808]

Up to Speed by Donut Media presented by James Pumphrey If I remember correctly

[@tonydevich7937]

I like this, just bought labradar

[@laxcowboy1445]

That line is definitely from Donut Media, Up to Speed!

[@Dan_PRS]

Shoutout to Donut Media! 🍩🍩🍩

[@waynejustinen2843]

I’ve watched a number of episodes recently and have developed a rule of thumb, which applies to far too many KZbin podcasts. “c” (useful content in hours), is equal “p” (length of the podcast in hours) divided by “n” (number of staff members interviewing a guest or commenting on the topic). c = p / n On rare occasion, I find that a host is either an excellent interviewer or finds the guest so interesting that he is loath to interrupt with his own thoughts. May you all become, at least, adequate interviewers as I am an old man and have too little time remaining to waste it watching vids that hide the information I require among the brambles.

[@kencaz]

Having the Caldwell Chrono, I have found that they are picky to sun angle, and like to be perpendicular to the sun if possible... But normally will give an "error" and not a false reading... Overall though It has proved to be pretty accurate when verified through a ballistic app. Enough for competition...tho...?

[@VortexNation]

That is very interesting!

[@hughtanner208]

Oehler 35P from back in the day.

[@MnShootingSports]

Great episode guy's

[@VortexNation]

Thanks!

[@bennett338able]

The shift with the Mangnetospeed is occuring because of the magnetic felid, not the added weight on the barrel, does your poi shift with a can on the end of your gun, no it does not. Clock the magnetospeed at 6,9,12, and 3 and you will see the shift is always opposite the bayonet, and if you want to magnify this result go to harbor freight and buy some rare earth magnets , add these on top of the magnets embedded in the bayo and watch poi really shift.

[@larsmurdochkalsta8808]

You can improve the accuracy of back calculating velocity by finding a velocity that trues to your drop at multiple ranges. Edit: that won't always happen because nifty computer versus the most beautifully chaotic system known to exist is pretty hard to solve

[@ajinvista]

Whereabouts in Nebraska did you live?

[@VortexNation]

Sidney

[@helohalo]

In reference to environmental interference, anyone know whether the overhead roof qt an outdoor range (often made of corrugated steel or wood/shingle construction) affect the Labradar readings?

[@bennett338able]

seems like it could, with the system being dopplar

[@danielcurtis1434]

You don’t have to do only muzzle velocities for chronographs!!! You do need to risk shooting he thing literally if much beyond 30 yards depending on firearm…

[@JacobTerherst]

Please keep using, PRSing.

[@wildcat_reloading]

Benchrest shooters do weigh powder charge

[@BackwardTravisty]

I depend on my Magnetospeed V3. The other options wouldn't work for at all.

[@KisanS41]

Mor Powahhh baby!!

[@novicereloader]

The light-based ones on the table don't have emitters in the body. Radar is not sound. You're killing me, Smalls.

[@Mr.J345]

Now the first barrel company that comes out with integrated chrono wins

[@bennett338able]

good luck with that, to many calibers to be practicle

[@JohnTheRecoilJunkie]

I'm late to the party, but that's Donut Media's intro

[@InfamousTactical]

Applied Ballistics uses LabRadar as standard protocol. They own a $30k doplar but use these and say it’s most accurate

[@michaelvangundy226]

I shot my 50 muzzleloader over it at 10 feet. It blew off chunks of plastic. The sky screens broke. No more little chrony.

[@johnnybbgunner2136]

If you do your own reloads you will need a good accurate system.

[@JFeli731]

donut channel! also, 204 ruger podcast PLEASE!!!

[@ronws2007]

42"30 "what's the frequency, Kenneth?" Okay, I don't expect a lot of people to get the reference but then, again, I am a seif-identified nerd.

[@parkerkimber2446]

Mo Powa Baaaabbbbbyyyyy

[@FVPS904]

Why isn’t Ryan on this one? He should be on every podcast

[@VortexNation]

We try to wrangle him up whenever we can!

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

You forgot checking for pressure, before your primers/brass shows pressure

[@herblorenz90]

This appears a sales pitch for the later chronographs. I'm sorry but the reason you gave for at the range for the light type chron's was lame. Use the info but weigh it with how you would use them.

[@tonydevich7937]

Maybe thompson center pistol

[@johannel1895]

The Caldwell chronograph works on infra red emitted by the sun, and "version 1" is greatly influenced by sun(shine) conditions. example direct sunlight on the sensors at 15:00 in the afternoon gives Error/No readings. Say a light cloud moves infront of the sun, and the units works again. ( Turning the unit upside down and adding a consistent Infra Red light source was a clever way to solve these issues in "ver 2" ). Infra Red, Thus the reason "Ver 1" does not work indoors with fluorescent or LED lights. Pros: value for money Cons: "Ver1"'s phone interface just doesn't work and Caldwell not doing much about numerous requests from users to update the ios app. (I suspect the current app only supports Ver 2)

[@unit3edkarnage]

⚡️⚡️⚡️💪🏼💪🏼🐎

[@kevincollins6497]

Thought about getting 1 of these things but nah.. Bullets and buckshot goes fast. I just go for acuracy.

[@OGBRADASS]

Labradar $625 now...

[@danielmontgomery7581]

Great info but I got a little annoyed with the talk about the Lab Radar. Microwaves are light, just like what is used with cellphones and other radio towers. The doppler effect is used but it is with light, not sound.

[@fivex4756]

Not quite, neither light or sound.. Uses radio frequency wave transmission and reception

[@danielmontgomery7581]

@@fivex4756 "Light" is the general term for electromagnetic waves. I will give you that light is typically used to refer to the visible spectrum but it does not change the fact that microwaves, radio waves, infrared, and ultraviolet are all wavelengths/frequencies of light.

[@fivex4756]

@@danielmontgomery7581 Most people do not think of it that way, which is why I was more specific with radio frequency, so yes it would have been better to say exactly what frequency it operates. I guess I will start referring to myself as a ham light operator

[@jo13pete]

270wsm cartridge talk podcast?

[@johnt34aus]

Its incorrect that you cannot use a Labradar indoors. You definitely can.

[@FAtE_454]

Glass shatters, Pop up up and down headlights plays, the crowd roars as the Kentucky Cobra walks down the ramp

[@danielcurtis1434]

I just wouldn’t buy a much muzzle mounted device because your restricted to muzzle velocity!!!! Why aren’t the electronic magnetic chronographs available as a standalone option you could shoot at any distance???

[@InfamousTactical]

I literally chrono every time I shoot. Love my LabRadar

[@tonydevich7937]

15 feet

[@fishinforfun3359]

Donut media

[@Auto-Tech-Matt]

Donut

[@boog3690]

Jesus will you guys stop rambling and actually talk about chronographs... 😒

[@Perry2186]

Up to speed donut

[@joshwilcox8941]

* James Pumphrey entered the chat *

[@aquaman6081]

The garmin made all of these irrelevant

[@bigwestreviews4933]

What a complete waste of time. Stay on topic.

[@nicn2446]

Does labradar repair their garbage for a reasonable fee?

[@prestont1997]

Donut media