Ep. 305 | .300 Win Mag vs .308 - Dissecting Ballistic Gel!

[@REDNECKROOTS]

308 for the woods hunts and close range biggame. 300wm for the fields and places ware dangerous game live. That makes complete sense

[@edwardhoward4708]

“Like” is not good enough. You nailed it.

[@anonymousf454]

3006 with handloads...best of both worlds

[@crowjackson5469]

​@anonymousf454 if you are hand loading wouldn't the 300 wm give you better variety?

[@REDNECKROOTS]

@crowjackson5469 no it would be like using a dragster for a daily driver. Just don't need that much horsepower unless your at the track. Well you don't need that much horsepower to hunt timber and shoot 74yards The 308 and 3006 just do that daily driver roll alot better

[@tomasfarr3446]

Exactly why I have purchased both myself. Nailed it mate

[@RMM--uv7uk]

Great job guys. Hope you guys keep these coming. 270win vs 6.5PRC is what I want to see. Old vs new. Numbers are so similar.

[@doylethorn9251]

I think I'll just stay with my 30-06. Thanks for the info. I enjoyed the show.

[@dw5523]

that's really hard to argue against. For anything shy of Cape Buffalo or Elephant it'll do - and even those have been killed with the 7x57.

[@wahyasaquii7563]

@@dw5523It really is, isn’t it?? lol. I can’t think of anything I’d hunt that an 06 wouldn’t take. That cartridge just works!

[@Marcus-jg4jb]

I think the most interesting thing for me from these results is the kind of penetration the 300 mag got with the powershok. With old school bullets you can really see the differences that contributed to lots of the reputation of the old cartridges. And how much modern bullet designs can level the playing field.

[@mine8009]

I went through a similar comparison years ago when I was stationed in Mississippi. I grew up in the mountain west, and was pretty comfortable chasing anything with a 308 Win. There was a gate guard that loved hunting, chased exclusively Mississippi whitetail, but was running a 300 Win Mag, and had literally blown a leg off of a couple. Had to bust his chops for running something that was excessive for anything he was actually chasing, and wondered if the lost legs on game was a function of a flinch. Great episode guys, would be cool to see a comparison in a similar vein between the 7 Rem Mag and the 7mm-08 Rem. I’d love to see the 280 AI as well (perhaps all three together).

[@chipsterb4946]

I’d like to see 7mm comparisons too. However, 7mm-08 vs. 270 Winchester would be awesome. Likewise 7mm PRC vs. 7mm Rem Mag.

[@dw5523]

I knew an Arkansas hillbilly who had a 300 WM cut down to 19" to be handier in the woods. Where he hunted there wasn't a single place where you could shoot past 75 yards. Thing went off like a howitzer.

[@garyk76]

I'd like to see a 6.5 prc vs a 270 win in this series since the velocity is basically the same and the bullEt weight just a little different in diameter

[@DJUwU]

6.5 PRC marginally better the longer the distance? My guess is the ballistic gel results would be the same...and I'm also guessing 6.5 PRC will be more popular as time moves on while I don't think 270 will get more popular... 6.5 PRC (in theory) edges out velocity/energy/wind-drift starting around the 150 yard mark...and just continues to be better at longer ranges. Within 100~150 yards...270 is marginally faster/harder hitting (in theory). So...I think in the long term future (50+ years)...the 6.5 PRC will replace the 270...but by then...there will probably be a newer kid on the block that outperforms the 6.5 PRC...

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

I like and shoot both cartridges and you can’t go wrong with either. My favorite is the cartridge in the middle 30-06. 308 and 300 wm are good choices for almost anything inside most hunting ranges. My biggest problem with 300wm is the recoil makes it harder for me to shoot good groups but it hammers game when it gets there.

[@mot0rhe4d40]

All three are very capable cartridges. I used a Hornady bonded 150gr 308 to take my 1400+ lb buffalo. Bullet past completely through on a double lung/ heart shot. Range was somewhere around 100 yards. So an '06 or 300 wm/wsm would have performed, just with more recoil.

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

@@mot0rhe4d40 that’s pretty impressive for an animal that size 👍

[@mot0rhe4d40]

@@Off-target-xy6bx They are more narrow across the chest cavity than say a Cape buffalo. My little brother decided to go bow and arrow. I had told him, I'll bring enough gun to back him up, should things go sideways. 19 rounds of inter-bonds was the route I went. Folks tend to underestimate what a caliber brings to the table a lot of the time. Experience corrects that right up 👍

[@DinoNucci]

​@@mot0rhe4d40correct

[@DinoNucci]

​@vortexnation233swallow pennies

[@sandych33ks1]

Both of these cartridges are my favorites. I use the 308 in the woods hunting in the Northeast. I use my 300 win mag even hunting from tree stands in Ag country..

[@daltonmitchell2459]

I want a 7 rem mag episode. I wanna hear what ryan hates about it!

[@garygallard4729]

There would be a bad experience in there somewhere if I were to guess

[@TXLorenzo]

I don't think he hates the 7mm mag. It just takes a lot of powder and barrel wear to get the extra velocity.

[@ronlowney4700]

😂 My Grandfather's 270 Winchester Took a Top 5 B&C Bison! It really is all about shot placement and choosing a well constructed bullet! 🕵️‍♂️ I Loved Your 308 Winchester Bison Story! 👍

[@edwardabrams4972]

Love the 270 win! If it was good enough for Jack it’s good enough for anyone!

[@raywells2858]

I have a .308, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag and a 338 Win Mag and shoot all of them very well out to 400 yards. Unless I am gonna be hunting trophy Elk on a regular basis, Moose or in a area where a Grizzly is a real possibility, I see no need to use anything more than a 308 or 30-06 given todays bullet technology. 99 time out of 100, I reach for the 308 and its yet failed to pick up the check! Granted 70% of my Hunting is in Texas, but occasionally I find my self in the PNW, New Mexico or Alaska.

[@chrisblake1918]

I am a .308 fan. This 300 WM is more than I need.

[@NotBOB-81]

The same thing could be said about the 50bmg, but dam I still have one. Also have a 338 Lapua, what am I hunting with that, or how about that new intervention rifle, what is anyone hunting with these cartridges? They are all more than I need but I still have them minus the intervention rifle. You know why?? BECAUSE AMERICA 🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@REDNECKROOTS]

I like 308 also. Pretty much all i have now besides cpl shotguns. I hunt deer 🦌 that's it. goldilocks for my situation. Northerneaster wood's . The 308 shines at timber hunting

[@DinoNucci]

Correct

[@DinoNucci]

​@@NotBOB-81wrong

[@DinoNucci]

​@@REDNECKROOTScorrect

[@robertsebacher44]

257 Weatherby, 270, 7mm REM Mag, 308, and 30:06 for all purpose rifles. If you need to go bigger 350 Legend for ARs, 45-70 for lever action, 35 Whelen for pumps, 338 for traditional semi automatic, 375 H&H for traditional bolt action.

[@markocote7625]

I've shot dozen of deer with my first big game gun the 308 purchased when i graduated from university. All deer shot between 20 yards and 120 yards. It shoots most 150-165 gr ammo accurately and my handloads even more so. Since then as I grew more comfortable in life I have collected a 30-06, 300 Weatherby and 300 Win Mag. For the 300 Weatherby it prefers the 168 TTSX and I have had great results on game with it. The 300 Win Mag is now set with 175 LRX handloads and shoots 1/2 groups at 100. I have yet to take game with it as it is a recent addition to my collection. On another note my wifes 6.5 Creedmoor shoots 120 TTSX under 1/2 inch and anything she has shot has dropped within 10-15 yards. My 7mm Rem Mag loves the 145 LRX. and it groups at 3/4 at 200 yards. With many hours spent loading cup and cores, bonded and copper bullets I personally have experienced better groupings with all of the tipped Barnes bullets TTSX and LRX, shorter time to develop a load (therefore costing less) and effect on game has always been spectacular......on a final note..I think i will try to get a some 130gr TTSX for my 308 and give that a whirl.

[@lucasvaughn629]

You know I'd love to see you guys do a Midwest special and compare the 350 legend and 450 bushmaster, or Mayne 450 bushmaster to 45-70

[@texpatriot8462]

I can tell you that the 450 Bushmaster will leave an enormous hole in a big Axis deer.

[@AmmoGunsAndFun]

I'd use the 45-70 over 450bushmaster. I think it is a better round bigger bullet faster more energy on impact

[@lucasvaughn629]

@@AmmoGunsAndFun that depends on the loading. Unless it's rated for modern lever action s 450 bushmaster beats 45-70

[@AmmoGunsAndFun]

@@lucasvaughn629 all 45-70 ammo I use out power 450 by at least 500ft.lbs-700ft.lbs of energy I use underwood buffalobore Hornady

[@REDNECKROOTS]

Love the show guys. Yall are probably the best at in depth information in hunting n shooting sports. Much appreciated 🙏

[@ronlowney4700]

🤯 Since 4 out of 10 hunters are running around shooting Big Game Animals with "Target Bullets" (which, coencidentally, is statistically similar to the amount of Game animals wounded and never recovered each year 😪), I am hoping that this series changes that outcome, BECAUSE BULLET CHOICE MATTERS MORE THAN CARTRIDGE CHOICE FOR MOST HUNTERS! This series is also the reason why I subscribed to your channel! 🤑

[@marcmoore4115]

I have harvested around 50 Gemsbok this year with my .308, running 168gr ELD-M at 2844fps from 50 to 500m...all Gemsbok brought home, never needed a 2nd shot, but when I did shoot a 2nd time it usually dropped there. I've got a similar amount of time with the Superformance 165gr SST at 2840fps and Nosler AccuBonds. The AccuBond certainly penetrates further more consistently, but doesn't kill any faster, runs out of steam over 200m earlier than the ELD-M. The SST and ELD-M have given me near identical results. Core/jacket separation, on a broadside, 50% of the time it penetrates right through and 50% of the time the core or jacket will be ditting between the ribs and hide, usually has minimal meat-damage on larger species but the organs are mushed... also very fast kills. NOW - while I personally have had great success with the ELD-M, having taken nearly half my animals with them, I wouldn't recommend them for hunters who are time pressured - hunting season or a hunting trip for instance, especially for larger species - if you need to take a difficult shot, being a hard quarter or whatever else, you will be happy when you have a monolithic or other strong bullet, that can just punch through everything and have no questions about it being able to do it. It's a significantly better feeling being sure than potentially losing an animal. I hunt almost every day, have plenty of chances and plenty of time to be able to always make sure I have a good shot - hence, the Match bullet that costs a third the price of a Monolithic bullet, just works much better for me - it kills incredibly quickly even at distances further than the .308 is usually used for. If I had a 7mm Magnum or .30 cal Magnum, I'd probably use 180gr ELD-M for 7mm or 225gr ELD-M in .30 cal Mag.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 For the Bigger Species that I hunt the elk can get to over 1,100 lbs, the moose to 1,500 lbs (3,500 lbs in Alaska), and the Bison to over 3,500 lbs! Bullet Selection is critical, especially if you are hunting in Bear Country (Where the Brown Bears can get between 1,000 lbs and 2,000 lbs) , depending upon where on this Continent that you live! Bullet selection is More Important than Caliber, as is shot placement! 🧐

[@marcmoore4115]

@ronlowney4700 oh absolutely! I'll never vote against an arguably better bullet. While the ELD-M kills fast, no one can say anything about its consistency - I have around 50 Gemsbok down with them, but as they are mostly broadside shots I can only comment on that - I've never tried a hard quartering-away shot, but I have had hard quartering-to and frontal shots that went well. Bullet placement, then bullet design, then velocity and then bullet weight in my eyes. My friend harvested an Eland Bull around 1800-2000lbs with a perfect shot, just behind the shoulder and penetrated straight through... using a locally made "Peregrine" monolithic bullet in a .243 Win... the Eland ran a couple steps and then toppled. Also, just a sidenote... what are you feeding your moose and bison lol? Largest moose recorded is 1800lbs and largest bison recorded in the wild is 2800lbs... they must be on the juice there where you are 😂 you'd certainly set a new record

[@ronlowney4700]

🕵️‍♂️ The largest domestic Bison is 3,800 lbs (google it) and the one hanging on my uncle's wall is Absolutely "Prehistoric" (Top 5, All Time)! As far as Moose, the Guide from my own home town has taken 5 of the Top 10 with his Guiding Service! Including the Current World's Record! If you buy his books - Jack Atcheson is his name - you can read more about it! For me, his Taxidermy Shop is only a mile from my house, so I can go see them for myself! 😃

[@ronlowney4700]

That same uncle has all my Grandfather's Trophies...and that Includes That Former #3 Boone and Crockett Moose! 🤑

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

Between the 308 and the 300winmag, the 30-06 is best. I very confidently hunted a big Eland cow with my 308. 150gr accubond. My brothers 30-06 did perform better on his Eland cow, but we certainly did not need anything more powerful.

[@mot0rhe4d40]

The Hornady Inter-bond 150gr in 308. Is what I used on my 1400+ lb buffalo. Complete pass through on a double lung/ heart shot. The '06 still has a versatility that is hard to argue. 308 ain't no slouch though either 😉

[@Paul-q3m7k]

I heard the 3006 can propel a space ship to the moon ….

[@mot0rhe4d40]

@@Paul-q3m7k Someone was over selling it. Nonetheless a solid cartridge that run the gambit on many game species around the world 😉👍

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

@@Paul-q3m7k I’ve seen it done. Ha ha ha

[@garygallard4729]

Love it Hard to do a decisive comparison without a situation to give context. Each wins out in its own area

[@jerrymartin5100]

Would love to see a perma gel test with Nosler Partition projectiles.

[@nmelkhunter1]

For what it’s worth, Federal has videos on KZbin that show Partition performance in ballistic gel.

[@nikos6220]

Best episode so far, so many interesting topics due to the different leagues. Great job. I have the 130 grain TTSX in my safe for my 16‘ 308 Win, so I am not a hater. BUT… all the speed demon talk is a bit over the top due to the pedestrian BC of the thing. Even with 3150 muzzle velocity, at 100 yards it will only have 90 ft/s on the 180 trophy copper. And at 200 yards the 180 TC is already ever so slightly faster

[@DinoNucci]

You are wise

[@mr.mr.3301]

I’d love to see a 7ai, 7 rem mag and 7-08 in the same comparison.

[@reloadnorth7722]

I own both, reload for both, hunt with both, they are both 30 cal. I only hunt moose. I use the 308 up to 300 yards, and the 300WM up to 600 yards. I have never wounded or lost a moose with either one.

[@Hollywood41642]

You can load the 308 with 130gr ttsx and varget or 4198 powder to get more velocity then a factory 150gr 300 win mag.. THE 300 RUM Rules ....

[@ericford8556]

The Swift Scirocco IIs are among the finest hunting bullets you’ll find in North America. Every deer I’ve hit with a Scirocco or my kids have hit were dead right there. Seven deer with seven shots is a great record

[@matthewmcarthur8388]

Solid super troopers reference… “don’t worry about that little guy”.

[@jaredconrad7075]

Just waiting for that 7 rem mag comparison.

[@edwardabrams4972]

This test is so great because my father hunted with a pre64 in a 308 for 20 years and when he switched it was to a pre64 in 300 win mag and he killed more elk and deer in his lifetime then almost anyone I know. My grandfather was a marksman and received awards for it! My father was good friends with a gunsmith reloader that he worked with that was friends with John Nosler and the were using his Partition in the early 50’s and 60’s and killed lots and lots of deer and elk with both calibers but my father liked the 300 win mag better for elk because it offered just about the right amount of punch or the recoil it gave you and that’s the reason it is so great a round! For deer the 270 win and the 308 are probably the best 2 because they shoot flat enough with the right bullets and ammo is available in most places and the recoil is very light compared to magnums!

[@edwardhoward4708]

What do you think about .270 for elk? I have never hunted elk and am going by other people’s experiences on this.

[@chipsterb4946]

Really good discussion guys. It took a long time to get there, but Ryan’s comments on the behavior of different bullet types was fascinating. So was his “step down in weight to get more velocity for all copper” guideline. Every discussion seems to be heavier bullets/higher BC. 130 grains seems light for .308 Winchester IMHO but my knowledge and experience are nothing compared to his. I also really like the approach of looking at cartridge/gun/optic/environment/game as a single system. I’m glad Ryan keeps hammering the necessity of maintaining a minimum velocity for all copper bullets. I’ve had several great conversations with techs at Barnes and that is something they emphasize. Most recently I talked to them about 8.6 Blackout. That’s a big, slow projectile. The tech must’ve said at least once every 120 seconds “remember that bullet must be going no less than X fps.” I was asking about supersonic loads and a range of no more than 300 yards so that velocity was achievable, but there isn’t a big margin and anything beyond 300 yards is a hard NO GO.

[@daporter84]

Love to see the addition of synthetic bone or some other hard barrier in these tests

[@nevadacoyote]

I had a 300 win mag and it was to much gun. I could not shoot it well because it has to much recoil. I'm going to step down in cartridge with less recoil

[@eduardoolaechea]

Good analysis! However, in order to do a more even comparison, you should test both cartridges using the same bullets (i.e. 150 and 180 grain for each). Also include in your analysis the MPBR for each with both bullet weights, their maximum effective range with the different grains and constructions and the potential excesive damage that may be caused at ranges under 100 yards for each with both, the cup and core and the monolithic on medium size game.

[@hardball107]

Please, how much does it take to kill a whitetail ? I assume that is what we are talking about or similar sized game. I’ve owned both calibers, am a hand loader and just carry my 308 for everything. Ammo is half the price, brass is everywhere, it recoils less and is much more accurate and I even headspace my 300WM off the shoulder with a .003” bump. I do shoot some PRS and the 308 always wins and for hunting it kills just as fast, it’s cleaner with less meat damage and recoil for a quick follow up if needed. My son just bought a 7mm PRC and looking at that it might be my next go to BUT again for 90% of hunters the 308 or. 7mm/08 is the sweet spot. You can throw the 6.5 Creed in there also IMHO.

[@marcmoore4115]

I'm pretty sure they were saying about the same thing. .308 is pretty much all you need for deer, but for longer range and for bear defense, they feel more comfortable with a .300 Win Mag. I personally only have a .308, I primarily use it for culling Gemsbok in Namibia. I've settled on the 168gr ELD-M at 2844fps as my primary load with Superformance 165gr SST at 2840fps as my go-to Factory option. With the SSTs I'm comfortable to shoot out to ~400m/440yds no problem and with the ELD-M I've had great success out to 500m/550yds and will gladly push it to 600m if I need to. Also - did you say .308 always wins in PRS? If so, that's horribly incorrect. The most successful cartridge in recent years is the 6mm Dasher, all the 6mm BR variants, 6mm Creed/6x47/6 XC, 6.5 Creed/6.5x47 and all the cartridges inbetween. .308 and the 7mm-08 have too much recoil and the ballistics aren't good enough for the top of the PRS world. (Sidenote, I'm kinda surprised that no one's tried 7mm-08 or "7mm Creed" (7-30 TC) with a 180gr. Not much more recoil compared to 6.5 Creed with a 147, similar velocity and much higher BC)

[@texpatriot8462]

Since Hornady uses the same reloading data for different bullets, it would be interesting to test the cup/core Interlock vs bonded Interbond vs copper CX with the same velocities out of the same rifle.

[@jacobeimer2052]

I think bullet talks are maybe a little more relevant than cartridge talks. I personally would like to know what grain ttsx at reasonable .30-06 velocity out penetrates a 200 grain a frame. I beleive bullet choice and understanding is far more important these days than cartridge choice.

[@AmmoGunsAndFun]

Yes, you do. I bought my Falkor Petra rifle, and I love it it is the big big brother to the Ar10. I have both, and both are fun

[@1bobharvey]

On the topic of all copper Barnes bullets. Granted sample size of 1, and this was when I was much younger back in 2004. But I have had a pass through on a heavy bodied mule deer buck at 600 yards with a 6mm 85 gr barnes triple shock in hot handloads and a 24" barrel. I used that rifle and hand load back in the financially disenfranchised days for coyotes, deer, bear, and elk. Worked great on everything I pointed it at, but I was also a damn good shot with that rifle/ammo/scope combo back then cause that was my one rifle year around.

[@mikemellon80]

Ryan, are you concerned about the big wind deflection of those 130g .308s with the low bc at say 400 yards with almost 15" of drift there

[@jacksonthomas9311]

Once took a good sized Muley buck at 100 yds with a 150gr projectile out of a 300 win. Maybe a little too explosive but without a doubt created a huge wound cavity and the result was a deer that dropped instantly. Love the effectiveness of the 300 however a 308 in the same situation would have likely yielded the same results without the excessive hole. Let’s see 7mm mag vs 300 win now!

[@traceyevans2757]

I’m so glad y’all did this one.

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

I love these comparisons.

[@masonlansdale2701]

Please do a compact cartridge comparison 300 black out, 223, 6.8 spc. 6 arc. There are alot of us that feeder hunt and kill stuff at short ranges 100yards and in. Would be nice to know wich one is getting better terminal performance

[@chadmorrison5094]

I love torcher testing and catching bullets. Of all I have tested the copper bullets are amazing!!!

[@eerohongisto821]

I would love to see big heavy bullet vs small fast bullet all else being equal (especially energy and sectional density). My choice would be 300wm vs 9,3x62 since those come very close on energy and sd, but im sure you can come up with different pairings if the 9,3 is too hard for you to come by in the states.

[@shermrock345]

It does not matter how big or powerful the cartridge is when hunting if you have piss poor shot placement. I saw a guy on a buffalo hunt that had a 45-70 and he has to put 5 or 6 bullet's in it to get it to go down. I think shot placement and accuracy are far more important than caliber when hunting. I'm not saying to use a caliber that is dangerously underpowered but I would rather shoot something with a caliber And gun that I know I will hit the spot that I am aiming at so the .308 made perfect since for her to take a buffalo with because if she knows what the bullet will do and what distance and how much power that bullet is goot to, to work probably then it's all good. And obviously it was all good 😊

[@Grizzwalker]

I know that y’all know that we know as adorant followers which of these is better for what, when, where, and how 😂. Still quality listen and time spent. Would love to see some more direct comparisons liken to: .308 vs 7-08, .243 vs 6 CM, 7 PRC vs 7RM vs 7 RUM vs 280 Rem (so many .284/7mm options), 270 vs 280, 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 CM, big bore AR showdowns, etc. I know y’all have a plethora of ideas, and I look forward to seeing the next content drop! Happy hunting VNP!

[@MrTacklebury]

Ryan, you should try the Accubond LR's for longer range stuff. They open at 1300+ instead of needing 1600 to 2000 fps and are phenominal BC's. I hear you all talking about the all copper, but if you don't need that, ie California guys etc, then you are over penetrating most game under elk size. I punch through both sides typically with almost any bullet that isn't frangible or a "varmint" bullet or obviously milspec jackets. It isn't necessary to use a 35" penetrating bullet for any application in the lower 48 except MAYBE the biggest grizzlies. I use the Accubond LR's in 6.5, 7mm and 30 cals and they do everything you need down here and have much better wind busting BC's as well. ;)

[@CentralKYCamaro]

I really enjoy all of the cartidge talks, especially these new gel videos and talks. I am getting into coyote hunting and would love to see an episode comparing the different varmint/predator cartridge options like 22-250 vs .223/5.56 vs .243 Win. I will be using a 5.56 AR and also wonder just how the different ammo options behave like a Hornady Varmint Express 55gr V-max vs Nosler Varmageddon 55 gr. Or go solid copper projectiles with a Hornady Superformance 50gr CX vs Sig Elite Hunting 60 gr Solid Copper Expanding vs Federal Premium 55 gr Barnes TSX vs Underwood 55 gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos. Btw, the rifle will be sporting a Strike Eagle 1-8 with the AR-BDC2. Keep up the great work Vortex Nation!

[@mfallen6894]

Getting this in before I watch. Both if you have the need for high energy on very large game, medium/large game at long range. If you're just hunting whitetail/hogs/black bear east of the Mississippi, .308 will serve you well. I'd still say both if for nothing else than a) having the capability of running heavy .30's out to 500+ yards just in case you ever need it b) for fun. Not everyone likes magnum recoil/blast/report, but those are my favorite guns to shoot recreationally, so if you like the thrill of touching-off a really hot round, you might want a big magnum. RIP to your wallet though, even if you handload, at least in the case of magnum rifles. A tip if you want a magnum (rifle of revolver) and want to save some money: hit your local gun stores and with a little patience you can find magnums that maybe have two boxes of ammo down the pipe even though the gun is 15 years old. Take a bore scope if possible. A LOT of people THINK they want a magnum, buy one, and realize they hate them. I bought my .44mag Redhawk 5-6 years ago for $500 out the door. The new model was selling for $900 (now they're like $1100). Got my Freedom Arms 86 .454 Casull for almost half the price of a new one. Both had pristine barrels/chambers/cylinders/lock-up/timing with some cosmetic blemishes on the exterior that I was able to buff-out on one, re-blue on the other. It's usually best to wait for a Republican to be in the White House, as demand for guns/ammo/reloading components drops off a cliff & so do the prices. But I get it if you don't want to roll the dice and hope we'll be in that situation soon...

[@MSHunts]

I agree with Mark on the bonded. I’d love to see some bonded comparisons in these cartridge vs videos. I use bonded in my .30-06 for whitetail. Perfect more than middle ground.

[@BryanShull-lt8gz]

Hey guy's, there are at least 5 different subspecies of Whitetail deer. The largest is the Northern, around and above the Canadian border. The Kansas, which ranges the central plains. The Virginia, along the east coast, down into Florida and along the Gulf coast. The Couse deer that you know and the smallest is the Florida keys deer.

[@Chris__694]

It would be really cool to see the same caliber with all the different bullet types available for that cartridge in each block and see what the results would be.

[@drew55974]

As a reloader I own the 08,06 and the wm. I can and do load my 06 to equal powers. But if you want a great short distance cartridge that stupid quiet the 300 blackout is the way to go. Or something else that is fun I found the other day when I was a most shopping is a s&b makes subsonic 3:08 it is stupid quiet and fun

[@pcduc64]

So....since Mark Is such a big WSM. I would like to see the same comparisons on the WinMag and the WSM

[@jacobeimer2052]

This was excellent information. Some things I would like to see... Comparisons of the velocities at impact. Just estimates from a ballistic calculator would be great. I suppose I could do the calculation, but it would be great knowledge for the masses and for knowing more about the .30-06 penetration theory. My dad always talked about how a .30-06 completely penetrated the elk he killed with it, and how his .338 win mag did not. I wonder if this is relevant. Lastly, I think a comparison between .338 win mag and .300 win mag is in order. While this video was good info, I think these two cartridges are more often pitted against each other when a person is looking for a good 0 to 500 yards large american game cartridge, rather than a mostly deer, sometimes elk cartidge.

[@justahologram2230]

The more I research terminal effect and external balistics, the more I get convinced .280 AI is the perfect North American cartridge

[@mot0rhe4d40]

The benefits the .284 ( 7mm ) bullets bring to the table is hard to ignore. I had a chance to pick up a Ruger #1 in 280. Didn't bite though, with modern powders. My Tikka 7mm08 is so close that I couldn't validate the purchase. Other than I really want a #1 and have for a long time. Haven't heard any complaints from the folks I know running the 280AI

[@edwardhoward4708]

I would agree, except for the efficiency of 7 SAUM and 6.8 Western. None of which are particularly available cartridges.

[@edwardhoward4708]

@@mot0rhe4d40 I want a No. 1, too. Seems there are 3 ways to get more energy down range. More powder, longer barrel, higher pressure. The No. 1 is cool for the 6” extra barrel length (vs. bolt action), and ultra strong action. But like you, I don’t need it. I have a buddy who is getting one built in 9.3x62 with 28” barrel. Should be sweet. If you reload, it might be a fun exercise to A.I. the 7mm-08 chamber.

[@mot0rhe4d40]

@@edwardhoward4708 Ed, I was looking into the Win StaBall 6.5 powder and it gives nice legs to the already effective 7-08. Same for the venerable '06. Have a pound sitting on the bench, haven't played with it yet. For me and the distance I see every season in the Ozark mountains. Ranges rarely extend to 200 yds. More on average in the 100 or less range. So AI'n my Tikka isn't in it's future. Still a nice option to have, if the need was there.

[@sethmatherne7012]

A hefty sidearm with a full mag of energy transfer is a lot lighter than the extra heft of a big caliber rifle. I'm voting for the .308. I doubt a 300 WinMag will ever join my arsenal.

[@vincentwood7036]

What is the velocity + bullet weight combination that you are looking for in terms of lethality? Put that bullet into both these cartridges and see at what distance they achieve that combination. That is a better way of going about it than to make a blanket statement such as "X works and Y doesn't". It is always a question of bullet type + velocity, and at what distance we can achieve that combination with a given cartridge.

[@chadillac95]

49:37 when deciding between a copper bullet that's light for caliber and a cup and core that's heavy for caliber, you have to look at what distance that heavier, typically more efficient, bullet ends up going faster than the lighter bullet. If the lighter bullet is still traveling faster out to 600 yards (just as an example) then why would you use the cup and core in a hunting application?

[@blakebell6720]

Love them both but gotta be careful going down the magnum, more is better rabbit hole or you end up shooting whitetail with a 338-378 weatherby

[@jaydunbar7538]

More is better to a DEGREE, we don’t want anyone thinking they should get a howitzer for rabbit hunting lol

[@Dale37]

I really like these comparison videos.

[@bartowpd342]

I have a 300 prc and I’m looking for another hunting caliber. Looking at 270 or 280AI. What’s your thoughts?

[@phillipholland92]

So the southern region of the states have smaller stature whitetail compared to the mid west. But in Texas we have small deer but large racks

[@sampearce6603]

Would you rather have the 308 copper or the 300wm power shock? All trade offs considered 308 looks like the winner to me

[@leejohnson2024]

My feeder is 100 yds from my blind, 308 is plenty for my application.

[@nachocarlson]

Really appreciate the framed picture of Jason Alexander or should I say George Costanza 😀

[@jeffreydawson4520]

Another great video gents! Ballistics is a fascinating subject and there are so many variables that play into it. There’s absolutely no way to say that this one thing is more important than the other because each aspect is so intertwined with the others (i.e., shot placement is most important but it’s not more important that shootability because the ability to shoot the rifle directly connects to shot placement and shootability is tied to recoil, etc.). I think at the end of the day all the scientific stuff gets pushed to the side and we ultimately just shoot what we like and are comfortable with, but man, oh man, is dissecting the scientific stuff fun!

[@Lzyrslf1]

10000% agree.

[@TXLorenzo]

I think when a bullet hits higher velocity it creates a shock wave that reflects back to minimize penetration. However, a large amount of disruptive energy is retained.

[@davepowell001]

I run 308 and 30-06, both are around 2700fps with a 168ttsx...unparalleled accuracy with still enough drive to get the job done! Have used a 165x bullet on elk in the past...30cal hole going in and a 30cal hole going out, no bone all soft tissue. Was extatic when the ttsx was dropped, more consistent expansion with the larger nose cavity, better energy dump...faster isn't always necessary

[@cailoebphillips9444]

I just used a 180 gr. SP on a whitetail opening day at 25 yards. 30 cal hole going in 1.5 inch exit wound. No bones were hit. Dropped that dude

[@davepowell001]

@@cailoebphillips9444 yeah, the cow elk was at abt the same yardage...those were kinda hot loads with the old x bullet...tiny nose cavity. But hey, lead does the job too...nice work!

[@EatingWild]

708 vs 308! Change the copper out with some Accubonds!

[@chadillac95]

58:54 Ryan, I hand load the 190 LRX for my 300 WM as well. I'm pushing it 2910 FPS. I'm pushing it just passed the factory posted velocity of 2880 at about a grain more powder. Have you noticed any pressure signs shooting it that fast? I'm using H1000

[@TMFShooting]

Another Great Video 💯 Thank You Guys 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@Is_Time_A_Number]

Very informative guys. Thank you.

[@johnfrankham1989]

Would like to see .300 WM vs 7PRC!

[@propertypreparedness6846]

7 prc and 300 prc do everything better. I hate them, but they make 300 wm obsolete. Like an easy Button.

[@marcmoore4115]

​@@propertypreparedness6846 Yup. For hunting - who really cares... it really isn't enough of a difference to fuss about. BUT the same cannot be said for a crossover rifle that's meant for target/competition and hunting. That's what helped make the 6.5 Creedmoor such a success and it's the exact reason I want a 7 PRC.

[@lk9456]

@@propertypreparedness6846if you reload, if you buy factory you’ll get hornady crap that’s not shooting posted velocities and way over pressured Seems like everyone in the 7prc group that doesn’t reload is having issues

[@devongreen7308]

After having experience with .300 wsm, .300 win mag, .308 win, .30-06, and .308 norma mag. I'll tell you I only own two of those listed. .308 and .30-06 are just what any shooter needs. 500 yards and in, no matter what North American game your hunting, those two are all anyone would need for a .30cal. Overkill is the very definition of the mags. That recoil is unneeded and too much for most guys. You can be Mr. Big all you want and brag about having one, but at the end of the day, your gonna take somthing that recoils less. After sighting in all of the listed rounds, without muzzle breaks, on the bench, without bore sight. You'll get 3 shots out of them and want to put them down and not touch them again. If you want to be a man admit when something is too much gun. .308win is one of the best 30cals period. .308win in an ultra light rifle will be a winner even for youth hunters.

[@loganjordan68]

I own both 308 and 300wm Literally everyone in my life enjoys shooting the unbraked, unsuppressed 26" 300 much more. Recoil is strictly mental, if you can't hold the gun up you shouldn't be shooting the gun but other than that there's no such thing as recoil. If you're prepared for what goes off, it makes no difference what caliber you shoot. 3" 1.25oz federal blue box slugs are a great example. "Ohhh it's a magnum load it's gonna hurt" the same way it's gonna hurt to pull the splinter out of your hand. It doesn't fuckin hurt, you just want it to in your brain.

[@andrewpuckett5295]

I adore these. Please do all the cartridges. Lol

[@Paul-q3m7k]

Hydrostatic shock isn’t a thing . There is studies on it , this is something companies like Berger came up with to sell target bullets as hunting bullets as they blow to pieces on game . “ but it transfers energy “ lol. I’ve seen many animals lost with these types of bullets . Weight retention is king .

[@grod4844]

Tool has the best concerts! Good music choice there.

[@gebogen4409]

I like the monolithic discussion being from California. I would be interested to know what barrel length you guys are recommending for lightweight rifle that’s going to be designed to shoot monolithics for medium to small game.

[@hvacguy2143]

308 v 270. let's go boys let's do this.

[@weansardman]

I got both. Now i want a 30-06! Actually i want one of each available firearm in each available calibre.

[@jfess1911]

Copper is only about 80% as dense as lead. This means that a 120 grain pure copper bullet will be about the same SIZE and require the same barrel twist as a 150 grain cup and core with a thin jacket. The 190 copper bullet is about the same size as a 237 grain cup and core. The difference is not always that great since some lead-core bullets, notably bonded designs, have thick jackets and bases made of copper/zinc gilding metal. Some of the Federal Terminal Ascent bullets seem to have as much gilding metal (by volume) as lead, for example.

[@NotBOB-81]

Now can you guys do the 7mm Remington magnum and the 7mm PRC, or comparison of 300 Winchester magnum and 300 PRC. I keep thinking the PRCs are sorta like modern rendentions and updated versions of the new 7mm&300. But hey what do i know.... im just another uneducated country boy. These cartridge wars are actually cool AF i can't wait to see the 7mm PRC and 300 PRC, especially seeing how im a 7mm groupie and all 7mm are just perfection and my 300 PRC is just wicked. I love them and believe these PRC are the definition of modern ballistics perfection.

[@HB-kp6rl]

I wanna see 7mm prc vs 300 win mag and 7mm rem mag

[@davidforstpointner5860]

G'day from Australia, enjoy your KZbin clips. Wondering if you would consider .270 v .308. Enjoyed the 270 v 30 06, .270 rules. Would be very interested in a 270 v 308. Thanks for your consideration. Have a good day.

[@williamwright9284]

We need a cartridge talk on 284 Winchester!!!!!!

[@mikemellon80]

do you need both if you are hunting whitetails in Grant County Wisconsin. No, I hunt with it, my 71 year old dad uses one after 50 years of 30-06 and my 10 year old shot his first deer with one last season. .308 is perfect for the deer woods. Hunting long range is the only time you will "need" a 300 win mag. if you want farther Maximum point blank range then you need one for the extra velocity. if you dial up ranges or use bdc reticle at normal sub 500 yard ranges. .308 will do the same thing. Big bears excluded. then I'd go to .338

[@ronlowney4700]

🦌 I am SO PROUD OF YOU BOTH FOR choosing Mule Deer Over Whitetail Deer! 😃 Mule Deer are a much harder Trophy to get! 🏆

[@jaydunbar7538]

If your into trophies, I give the antlers to the dogs with the rest of the bones. For me I want that venison, and both are made of steak.

[@ronlowney4700]

I don't waste either! 👨‍🎓

[@ronlowney4700]

🤣 The kind of trophies that I'm after are apparently worth more than the ones you shoot? 😳 A doctor in my own home town paid $350,000 for a mule deer rack (and that was a few decades ago)! 🤑

[@robin.april20]

Love the show but can you do 300wm vs 7mm rem mag please im stuck on those 2 atm

[@saskdad115]

In north america, if you have a 30-06 do you need a 300 win mag? Or is the obvious answer that long distance is the only reason you'd need a 300?

[@georgehager4248]

Both! .300 WBY 🏴‍☠️

[@scottv6726]

Excellent analysis, a little late in viewing this one. You raise an interesting point at 48:15 or so about weight of copper vs. lead and shooting lighter copper bullets, which makes a lot of sense. A 165 gr copper bullet necessarily would be longer than a 165 gr lead-core bullet, and fired out of the same rifle with the same speed and twist rate, the copper might be much less accurate due to longer length and the need for a tighter twist rate. Going lighter, such as the 130 grain you mention, seems more appropriate as you likely get the same length as the lead-core bullet and then also more speed. Of course higher speed creates higher rpm with the same twist rate which might offset some of this. Anyway, just hypothesizing. Excellent video.

[@timclaus8313]

Depends upon where you live. I am in Virginia these days, so there is nothing that is more than a 308 or 270 Win can't handle. If I want some extra grunt, I will use my 35 Whelen. If I lived in British Columbia, the Yukon or Alaska, I expect I would have a different view.

[@nayrapepenova9325]

Yeah I agree. I live in British Columbia and I own 3 magnums. A .300 win mag, a .338 win mag and .375 H&H

[@timclaus8313]

​@@nayrapepenova9325Always wanted a 375 H&H.....

[@nayrapepenova9325]

@@timclaus8313 the 375 H&H is good but it's only good to about 300 yards then the bullet drop and energy loss is high. The 338 win mag is only slightly. And I mean only slightly less powerful than the 375 and the 338 win mag can easily shoot out to 1000 yards.

[@timclaus8313]

​@nayrapepenova9325 It is ethical to keep hunting ranges down to what provides high probabilities of clean first hits. Unless you are out in the high plains, 300 yds is a fairly long average shot, plus I tend to like working with vintage cartridges and am not enticed by the latest, greatest bench rest cartridges.

[@canuckmagnum5841]

A lot of editing on this episode, try not to trim out too much or you'll lose what makes this channel, your unfiltered personalities. keep them coming, I enjoy these VS series.

[@JamesLee-rd7dz]

This is like comparing a small stone to a Boulder that is size of a house or a small car to a semi truck

[@garygallard4729]

What about a comparison of 30/06 based cartridge’s from 25/06 through to 35 whelen

[@zmbombr]

Where is the 7rem Mag landing with these conversations? ...thats what i got so i need to know what im missing out on

[@peacesmakers]

Just like Pokemon, "Gotta Catch em' all!"

[@OutsidetheEchochamber]

Shot an elk with my 308 and a mule deer with my 300 wsm similar distance similar placement, both 180 grain bonded. Not much difference in outcome, a few seconds and dead. Nearly same damage lungs liquified, smallish entry and exit. 140-150 yard shot.

[@SteveJones-kv5uv]

338 win mag vs 300 win mag!!!!! Ultimate alaskan cartridge.....

[@clydesalley6983]

7RemMag, where is that comparison?? I will stick with it, Tank You!!