Ep168: Mosiah and Joseph Smith: An Autobiographical Journey

On this episode of Mormonish, Rebecca and Landon are joined once again by fan favorite Ganesh Cherinian to delve deeper into the concept of finding Joseph Smith himself in the Book of Mormon.
Ganesh draws startling parallels between the life of Joseph Smith and King Mosiah as we take what seems like it could be a more autobiographical journey through the Book of Mormon than we had previously thought possible.
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[@AlanZabriskie-tr2uj]

This many parallels makes it more than coincidence!

[@cheery2100]

There are a lot of parallel's between the Smith family history and the events of the kings Zeniff - Noah - Limhi and lots of parallels between Abinadi & Isacc Hale and also Alma & Joseph Smith. Such that we can reconstruct events in Josephs life from the account in Mosiah.

[@landonbrophy276]

Hi all

[@sdfotodude]

You two are really killing it in the exMo podcastsphere. Keep up the GREAT work

[@perryekimae]

I'm vibing with Ganesh's points, but I do have some quibbles with the term "autobiographical". I've seen that notion applied by critics in really careless ways (Ganesh seems much more conservative in his use of the word). I think that calling these characters and events that parallel Joseph's own life "self-inserts" would do a much better job of communicating what Joseph is doing with the Book of Mormon.

[@cheery2100]

I like the idea of 'self inserts'! They may well describe what he is doing better. i.e composing a story that teaches a moral from the events in his life that have informed his values. Rather than wanting to talk about himself but disguising it. - Ganesh

[@perryekimae]

@@cheery2100 Exactly! I worry that "autobiographical" conveys an intention that would be hard to impossible to prove. "Self-insert" doesn't carry that baggage. But yeah, I think this analysis helps to fill in more of the answer to Brian Hales' "where do the words come from" quip.

[@MrChilli26]

Thank you Ganesh for putting all this work and time into to bring this to light and to share this. May it be seen and pondered by many asleep members.

[@cheery2100]

Glad that it is useful. - Ganesh

[@kathleenwharton2139]

Mormons are so fascinated with their Men..they don’t even know what Jesus Said! It is a good thing Jesus ask the Father to Forgive Pharisees. 😊❤

[@nae0067]

It's funny you brought up Seven brides for seven brothers because it is based on the Roman legend The rape of the Sabine women. Which is depicted in renaissance paintings and sculptures and could have been known by Joseph Smith.

[@ericredd5590]

Did I hear Landon correctly when he said JS converted to Christianity in 1826, 6 years after the first vision when he met Jesus Christ and God himself??????

[@robbiefl58]

Great presentation! One note: ISAAC HALE DID NOT DIE UNTIL 1839. Which is around the time that Joseph introduced baptism for the dead. Perhaps, Isaac's death inspired an interest in baptism for the dead... since according to Joseph's vision of January 21, 1836 (LDS D&C 137) ADULTS who would have accepted the gospel can be saved in the Celestial Kingdom without baptism. About Joseph's Methodism: Joseph Smith tried to join the Methodist Church in Harmony WHILE he was dictating what would become the lost 116 pages. WHY this is interesting, is because according to the 1838 version of the First Vision story this would have been eight years AFTER he was told NOT to join any existing church. According to members of the Palmyra teenage debating society of which the teenage Joseph was a member, he (Joseph) began attending the local Methodist Class around 1823--'24. Note: A Methodist Class was NOT a Sunday School (as so many Mormon historians seem to assume) but was comparable to a small LDS branch--that is, it was the smallest kind of Methodist congregation at that time in the United States. In Joseph's cases, this Methodist Class was the nucleus of what grew into the Methodist Church in Palmyra. A Methodist Class was not simply a meeting one attended. It was a mentoring group in which the members encouraged one another in their spiritual walk, sets goals for themselves, reported their progress to other another, and held each other accountable. It was very METHODICAL. Thus, the nickname "Methodists." In this Methodist Class, Joseph was an exhorter. After the minister or layperson leading the class delivered the sermon, the exhorter would deliver what was essentially a short summation of that message and then exhort (invite) those listening to open their hearts to the Spirit, to accept God's love, and let it that love work on their own hearts until they had experienced a change of heart and become children of God. This was essentially the message of John Wesley--the founder of Methodism. It was sometimes called Heart Religion, and the end goal was for those whose hearts had been "strangely warmed" by the Spirit and the experience of Divine Love would continue to grow and eventually be perfected in Christ. THIS is the central theology throughout "The Book of Mormon." It is pure Wesleyan theology (AKA Methodist theology.) And Joseph's ability to dictate the sermons/exhortations found throughout the book was first practiced and developed as a Methodist exhorter in this class. The Hales were devout Methodists as noted. Emma's maternal uncle was a prominent Methodist minister in Harmony Pennsylvania, and the surrounding counties (Methodist ministers, then and now, travel. They don't live in one place but are sent to serve as pastors over congregations in various locations. The 1820s was the time of greatest growth for U.S. Methodism. Ministers traveled extensively, holding meetings, preaching, making converts, and then establishing Classes that, in time, would grow into full congregations. DOES THAT MODEL SOUND FAMILIAR?) But Joseph was not introduced to Methodism by the Hales. By the time he met them, he had been actively involved in Methodist for two or three years. Perhaps he was attracted to Emma and her family BECAUSE they were Methodists.

[@nathanderr6317]

I am Going to do this Agree or Disagree with me so the lds Church has been Building temple's in the neighborhood's since Kirkland And Tall temple's since Nauvoo or St George and Plus the Temple Was supposed to Lessen Satan Power And I Get it that Heber valley temple Was Supposed to be Logs But When i looked at Smithfield utah temple (Heber valley Sister temple) It Actually looks like Fits in Cache Valley Surroundings And Guys said that Temple's Supposed in the Commercial Zone i don't See that Because Like Logan Temple But Temple is in Downtown it would not Work Salt Lake city Was in The Residential area Look at the Old Pictures I'm not Defending the Church or Anything I Was Want Correct you Guys This is The That We Lived in Plus Temple's are Better than modern American Architecture that's it Again You Can Agree or Disagree with me