EPIC CNC upgrade - episode 8. mounting rails, ball screws and Z axis, alignment and fine tuning.

[@bufordtjustice4362]

i feel your pain. i am on version 4 of my machine. I have said 3 times now that this is the last iteration. I was fine with my machine until i started watching your videos and saw a few ideas i would like to implement. Now it's in a pile of parts as i am slowly putting it back with the new changes and parts. Aligning everything is incredibly tedious but i somehow must enjoy it...

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Ups. Last thing i wanted is to have a destructive influence on viewers machines ;) 4 iterations?! Oh lord.. I feel your pain as i just finished my second iteration.

[@elminz]

Thanks for the series; it's looking amazing so far! It really shows that it takes exponentially more effort per digit of precision.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Excellent analogy. Spot on!

[@SimjetAU]

spectacular and you dedication to commitment is outstanding...you will have a incredible machine

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

As they say, no pain no gain ;)

[@MrVdmg]

Well done Fox ! microns are like gravity, they distort time ! awesome build ! I am anxious to see how it will cut !

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thanks 👍 once i dial those servos.. i crashed by accident on Z. so i had to re align rails... turns out those tiny servo pushed Z down with 650-700kg of force... its nuts. btw.. machine is just fine, but few of the microns got misplaced :D

[@stevenrichardson7882]

As an experienced machine tool builder for more than 40 years we found out that even the best rails and bearings have errors up to 0.15mm in parallelism, flatness etc. so there’s no point in trying to chase microns when setting them up? Also to stop pitch and roll errors we slid the dti on a ground block along a known straight granite parallel with the dti finger against the sliding bearings.As usual a good example to help the new arrivals build their own machine.👍

[@billstrahan4791]

I'd love to see a new video testing material removal rates again! With the extra rigidity maybe full axial engagement on your 10mm end mills and see what you can do! (Besides, even if you're not making a part, we all know there's joy in making pieces of metal into smaller pieces of metal!)

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

I will have to disappoint you ;) all the stuff is just for the surface finish, not ripping of the railroad tracks ;) machine was capable of doing so before the upgrade. You know i want to use it not to kill it.

[@riskototh]

You are really a very strong inspiration for me...

[@HereWe_GoAgain]

When you Z needs a skylight, you might have gone a bit too far! Awesome build. I'm thinking about making a smaller version of this

[@embsys716]

24:43 these words explain whole work, that You've done. xD It reminds me, how i tried to fix accuracy on milled gantry, after milling by some old, inaccurate boring machine. After a month of afternoons "goofing around", i took it to nearest company with some old, large, but accurate machine for another milling. After that operation, rail bolting took 30 min. Indicator shows 0,00.

[@trevordeemie674]

Those linear rails look huge... is that an optical illusion?? What size are they and where did you get them?? Thank you

[@EastLondonKiwi]

It's really looking awesome. I am looking forward to understanding how you will be using all this precision you are working so hard to achieve, in what the machine is making for your customers. I would also like to hear your thoughts on how the granite holds up over time compared to steel parts. And when you are expecting wear to effect your work enough to have to think about maintenance or replacement items.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

i was using this machine for 4 years now and i haven't noticed any changes in the granite under the rails. granite will last almost forever if you don't rub it. (piramides are still standing ;) ) steel rusts and distorts much more. but its more resistant on rubbing. im planing to do maintenance more often :) and over all i expect it to be good for another 4-5 years.

[@EastLondonKiwi]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Ok, interesting. I know the granite should be stiffer, so you'll have a far more ridged machine, for the same volume of material. It's the drilling into the granite to get the holes right I find intimidating. with steel you can put material back if you get it wrong. I don't think granite is that forgiving. Still I am looking forward to seeing these new parts in operation, and getting your thoughts on how it performs.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Drilling holes in the granite is trickier. But if you are not like totally off, you can drill bigger hole, put insert in fill it up with epoxy and align it where it should be. 1 or 2mm is not a big drama

[@TheDIMONART]

When you want to sleep- all things become extreme wobbly!!!:-))

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Haha 😄

[@adrianharrison5208]

Awsome video and as usual very helpful.. I need to go back over mine I know but to see how you set up your machine and why you do it they way you do makes alot of sence.. Thank you for posrting

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thanks 😊 im really glad it makes sense.i dont feel like I'm best explaining stuff.

[@adrianharrison5208]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki No you explain it really well and you have pointed out a few things that I had not thought about on my own build that could cause me to be chasing my tail

[@bobwilson7684]

unique piece of art

[@ErtsenPlayGames]

king of patience XD 20:55 hahaha i can watch u videos every day :D

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

well. i could get angry and and rip this machine a part, unfortunately everything is bolted too well :) i could start crying :) whining or cursing. none of those would make it straight :D what can i say, I'm glad you enjoy my frustrations :D

[@MP-mu1kw]

Hey Fox, fine tuning to be within 5 microns for a hand built cnc is a piece of mastery a.k.a Art. I am inspired and I am sure hundreds out their who follow your channel will be too. I had a question for you. I see most x-axis of artisian cnc designs and even on fixed gantry types. Does it really matter if the ball screw is placed somewhat exactly between the upper and lower boundries of the linear rails. I could be wrong but I think it is purely for "looks nice" reasons and if I was to place it say closer the lower rail. Does it make any difference to the overall performance in terms of any harmonic disturbance etc ?

[@blazeofperdition0376]

Super Piotrek. Podziwiam

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Dzieki 😉

[@danielkruger4305]

What is the tolerance of the parts you make with the machine. Are you doing aerospace stuff?

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Mostly 10-20 microns. Only once i really needed less than that. Mostly i do high ednd prototypes where the surface finish is important. Internals for cameras so in there i need some reasonable precision.

[@NguyenHaiNhi75]

Is this precision ball screws? What size and where best to source it? I’m trying to get the one ShopSabre is using on theirs. Thanks.

[@squeely2627]

just a quick questions why didn't you put way covers on your unupgraded machine because that would have incress the life of the linear rails

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

i will get there :D eventually...

[@OstapHelDesigns]

Spectacular indeed!

[@ShopperPlug]

16:15 - Oh god...lol precision god right here

[@vasyapupken]

one question - why you not move your gantry forward for ease of assembly? ) I'm almost feel pain in my own back watching your recent videos.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

2 reasons, camera and over there granite surface plate has the less amount of wear.

[@David_Best]

Did you consider installing jacking screws?

[@jaba512]

Are you going to use any blue loctite (the lightest hold) in the screws holding the rails. I would that those will experience some vibrations. Minimal rattlin is going to happen of course, with a setup like yours 😁

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

it would make sense but i think now its too late. maybe next time when i will adjust it

[@darkobul1]

How would you cut those rails properly if you did need to short them down?

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

with the angle grinder and metal cutting disc, i cut my big rail in half like that. when you use thin disk it doesn't even gets hot.

[@Sh4dowHunter42]

What CNC Controller are you using?

[@mvognev]

Спасибо за серию видеороликов по настройке обновлённого оборудования

[@beachboardfan9544]

Whats going to keep them from pushing or vibrating out of position? On commercial built machines the rails are captured so once positioned and tightened they can really only wear out of calibration.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

friction. i was running this machine before for few years and haven't noticed things going out of alignment

[@carlosalbertocorreiajr]

keep the awesome work

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thx. I will try

[@billstrahan4791]

Oh, and maybe with all the extra rigidity an ISO30 spindle with 4kw is in order...:)

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Well. Im thinking about it. But more for heat shrink tool holders not sure if i will be able to find it for iso25

[@sphinx19]

Hi Fox, hope you're well If you have time can you do a test to see how much deflection the machine have under 50 N let's say, but with the load attached to the tool and whit the z axis in 3 pozition: Z positive, Z middle and Z all the way negative. Thanks a lot 🙏 and good luck 👍

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Will do

[@wilcojuffer5940]

Hello Piotr, I like it when you try in les then 0.002mm I look to your work I know it is hard work. I'm also bilding a millmachine not from graniet. also not cnc. and the time laps are also oke 👍👍😉

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thanks 👍

[@thorgraum1462]

May i ask, are you using threaded inserts in the stone, i have been looking at tye keep-nut, but im not sure about the solution, thank you

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

It's tricky to get threaded granite inserts. So I used threaded standoffs. It's a threaded cylinder. You can make some groves around for the glue. It's in the video I made few years back. I think it has gantry in the title.

[@thorgraum1462]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you for your help. thank you soo much

[@Aleksandar_Sladic]

Nice! Eventho I'm really wondering what's with those trucks sounding so crunchy? And are they ball or roller bearing trucks? Cheers, AS

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

roller. to me they sound normal. maybe its the echo inside the machine

[@jcjensenllc]

Learning a lot. Thanks.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Glad to hear it!

[@nathaniellangston5130]

I think you really need to not tighten them down so much until you have all of them zeroed out loosely. When I tighten down my fixture plate of vise or anything I loosely tighten the bolts to the point where they won't torque the thing you want to be straight

[@cnpack8731]

Very nice work! could you tell me please diameter of your screw of z axis and rail ? thank you !

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

All the part list you can find here: www.flyingfoxcam.com/cnc

[@cnpack8731]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you !

[@oasianturi]

what kind spidel u use kw? and rel size xyz? and strip metal u use. i want to make cnc router for metal to

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

2.5kw. Jianken. Check the review video I made earlier

[@oasianturi]

can i use slider size 20 or 25 or more? i use for metal router like miling fungsional. strip steel 20mm

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

I would say 25 or more. But it all might be pointless if your frame is flimsy.

[@tiagolomar]

Great work..... Just one tip...avoid using stainless screws unless you are using A4-70.....

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

im using A2-70, i had them previously and they are working just fine. A4-70 would be used in marine application where they are exposed to salt. inside this machine A2-70 works just fine

[@tiagolomar]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki they have higher tensile strenght....I have one machine with a2-70 and the screws from the end of the rails are always snnaping the head....change to a4 and never have the same problem....but the forces compared to a cnc are much more

[@ryebis]

Curious, what's the cost of build so far ? :)

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

5-6k USD guessing, kinda lost the track :)

[@zdenkostanec1622]

Close to first cuts! =D

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

hehe :)

[@nickab9719]

Always happy when a new video is released. Was a bit late on this one though.. when this machine is finished I will buy it from you for 1000 euro so you need to make a new one and don't stop releasing videos. Btw. What kind of linear rails are these? All different brand?

[@milithemuffin4534]

Jokes on you, even machines that cost 10 000 euros aren't assembled with so much attention to detail. What kind of mill do you need exactly ?

[@nickab9719]

@@milithemuffin4534 jokes on me? I was just joking about it so Fox would have to build a new one and keep making videos and uploads on regular base. But I am actual thinking of making a series production ready design made out of steel tubing and plates. A Friend of mine is able to precision weld it without adding too much stress in the structure. he would also face, mill and drill it with a big amazing machining centre(Doosan). But I am more and more attracted to buying a Haas (super)minimill 2. So I am not sure what to do atm. Although I already have closed loop nema34 steppers/spindle/ballscrew/linear guides/cnc steering/power supplies etc. It's because I know I want to have it precise. For example like what Fox has now. I would also be tinkering for hours and hours. That is why I like his channel so much. But keeping in mind all the iterations, parts, hours etc. makes me wondering if I shouldn't just buy the Haas.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

its a different brand some shlodin#$#... can't remember. check episode 2 :D

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

more machines? but it would be like watching the same video over and over :) i was thinking similar, maybe it will be faster just to buy a hass, all the gadgets etc.. but apparently precision is not they strongest point.

[@nickab9719]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Oh, but you still need a edm machine, surface grinder, Fiberlaser and so much more :). Anyway can not wait to see your updated mill in action with some nice detailed measurements of the finished parts yeah, was trying to find more info about tollerances of these haas mills. Did read more "tollerance is not their thing" messages but non actually had details. Well.. maybe I need to make my own afterall or contact Kern for a nice big fat discount.

[@omidharatian4160]

Good on you

[@tensioncompressionshear4758]

Good job

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thanks 😊

[@rickhaass1133]

chasing microns... sucks, but I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

No doubt about it;)

[@sasazenny1750]

why don't you post a video testing different cuts in steel, i think it would be rather interesting ;)

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

mentioned it before. steel is not my thing, and i don't have tools for steel

[@catmeta6044]

[@GussDavey]

Thumbs up for that yawn... I like people being themselves when making videos :-)

[@rapppaa]

good work! love your videos!

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Thank you ;)

[@5591160]

Using dial indicator probe bend almost 90 degree will reduced output reading almost 45%.

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Actually this is the way how you should be using it. 90 deg is optimal

[@5591160]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki you are right sir this type of DTI can do it . I read on a manual angle between measuring flat surface and prob ball axis towards pivot point of DTI should be parallel . If there is an angle it will create an error.

[@5591160]

@@PiotrFoxWysocki it's difficult for me to describe my point what I want to say . Plz think about triangle crated when we touch a surface on a angle. I will be very happy if you get my point sir. Thanks

[@daboyakasha101]

you are a mad man

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

i know :)

[@Blue.4t2]

⭐️😊👍

[@SergeiPetrov]

In general, the stiffness of the resulting machine is not measured.

[@David_Best]

I think you need bigger screws. 😊

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

Bigger wont fit

[@jekaursu5286]

Много рекламы

[@_den_]

Boring? I was able to watch it only on the third attempt, I fell asleep twice )

[@PiotrFoxWysocki]

i was falling a sleep when i was aligning it, and than while i was editing. you just have seen a snippet :D