Episode

[@ChapterTwoLaundromat]

In response to your question about doing more dives into different framings of reality, yes please. It's funny you mentioned the Kyoto School, since I have "The Kyoto School: An Introduction" by Robert Carter waiting for me at the library. Thanks for the episode.

[@Alice-qj1wx]

My brother, Thank you! you brought me on this journey of truth. Now when I finally found the truth, you run it all home. Thank you for your loving work sodier!

[@StephBMedia]

Makes my day whenever another one of these drop, wish i could afford to suport the patreon, thank you for creating nd uploading these high quality podcasts for free.

[@mikecannon6529]

Thank you for the book recommendation. Critchley gives quite a ride and I'm going to see if I can follow him through his podcast on Heideggar. I always look forward to your episode.

[@reellifeoutdoors2905]

Wow man. You have been killing it with your content production! Love it.

[@ahahaha3505]

The Kyoto school certainly sounds fascinating. Looking forward to it!

[@user-bz7ud4lj4x]

Love the show! Please do an episode on The Kyoto School as you mentioned you might do.

[@richi12345678910]

Yes, please do the Kyoto school. Also, great podcast mate. I've been listening to you for seven years and your podcast has helped me when I was really going through a bad time and had no friends. I have moved countries since then but you have been a constant companion. Cheers.

[@Houk34j]

Would love to hear more about Kyoto school. Also would be interested to see if you would cover Charles Taylor, "A Secular Age" some time down the line. Great episode!

[@jltsheppard5057]

Yes, please do the Kyoto School, and more on alternate framings of reality. I loved your episodes on Simone Weil and her being a 20th century mystic.

[@ghostc1pher]

This is my kind of philosophy 10/10.

[@TennesseeJed]

Spiritually dying here in the political video game. Thanks for giving my hell a name Dr. West!

[@illiakailli]

yeah, that’s a good one

[@edvardasslikas6030]

Putting 'I'm a mystic' in a job application had me cracked up 😂 can't imagine a scenario of it playing out well 😅

[@chrisbirch4150]

Yoga teacher job?

[@illiakailli]

hmm, dunno, seen a ‘psychic car mechanic’ ad in my neighborhood just recently 😊

[@EdwinAncarana]

Great episode. Would love to hear more episodes like this, especially the Kyoto school.

[@alexast1457]

MORE MYSTICISM

[@ubir9743]

Start with abandonin all ideas, notions and concepts, that attempt to describe these types of ‘experience’. Just do the work, the pratice, and things will happen. That opens up the possibili to experience for yourself what cannot really be described, then to integrate this way of Being in your own life. Your Life gets affected in the most beautiful way opening up dimensions that couldn’t be imagined. The point is that you don’t have to think about it, you have to act, do the work, the practice, and things that may open up, will do. In this sense we abandon the rationl mind constantly doubting, and trying to make ‘sense’ of everything. With this rational function activated it is impossibleto access the still place of the mind where these subtle states and experiences can be experienced.

[@MarkMyWords86]

I was an investment banker when I had one of these “mystic experiences”. It was so profound I quit my job and went back to school for philosophy. I’ve taken several creative writing classes just to try and explain it to no avail. Like Wittgenstein says, language evolves ostensively; pointing out things in our perceptible reality. However, the experience I had was beyond anything I have perceived before or since, it at its core ineffable. Like trying to paint the Mona Lisa with a hammer and drill press. Metaphor and poetry is the only thing that comes close. And Rumi has seen what I’ve seen, something every madman has seen a reality so true that you leave your life sanity and everything else behind. Don’t walk too far from the platonic cave my friends, it’s easy to get lost, and in some cases impossible to come back.

[@nacetroy]

This was a good reminder, and almost felt like a direct answer to my question to you in your last video, haha. I will look up Critchley and check his stuff out. Would love to hear about the Kyoto School, as I have always been interested in Eastern thought/religion and how it may or may not reciprocate with Western thought. I've become skeptical of mysticism, "religious experience," or (if not divine) inspiration from some source that is greater than myself. Which is odd since I create art and have felt that kind of thing from art and nature many times, I've somehow abandoned much of this relationship since the events of 2020. I keep searching, however. Thanks!

[@tonybababoni]

Wowowowow! Amazing work as always!Thank you so much for your analysis and communication ❤️

[@ns1extreme]

I'd love episodes on the Kyoto school, always wanted to learn more about it but never had a good entry point.

[@qantumbutter8219]

More please! Very interesting as always.

[@quintessenceSL]

I think of Maslow's peak experiences and transcendence, which is just mysticism by any other name.

[@abtahi._]

this is beautiful. thank you

[@jonathancunningham4159]

Thank you for this

[@OftheRefrain]

Goddamn! I read St Teresa's diary, there is three volumes, with two editions in English translation available, I didn't finish it... I loved her though, her punctuation gave editors fits. She is way funny. But wow -- _The Ecstasy of St Teresa_ ...that Bernini sculpture is off the chain. Erotic AF I am in a real time crisis. Thanks for posting West. Timely. Legit. I have been vomiting and my stomach is tore up. Learning to manage anxiety is not for naught. The bile of PTSD. West? I checked: You might be aware; current Plato scholarship is of the consensus that Plato should be attributed with some 540,000 written words -- I did some rough calculation, I estimate that you have written nearly 900,000 words for this channel. I am impressed and ever so grateful. Cheers-- The Poet vs the Rhetorician; one creates new meaning, the other writes about those new allusions. _and if I could, I would dedicate this work to God_ --Wittgenstein, _Philosophical Investigations_ Bibliomancy makes the profoundest mark on (Wo)Man.

[@OftheRefrain]

I am gonna pick-up Critchley's book because I need a way out of this mess I got myself into. I already have Critchley's book on _Hamlet_ --maybe I will start there.

[@Turnoutburndown]

Listening to this made me think of the youtube channel "Like Stories of Old." They make videos that try and re-inject wonder into peoples lives, and do it mainly through movies. If you like Philosophize This then I think you will enjoy Like Stories of Old.

[@traviswadezinn]

Good insights - thank you - yes, an episode on the Kyoto school would be good

[@Musa-keys]

Instrumental music. Of any kind. And if anyone has 6 months to a year of patience, learn to play Blues/Reggae on an instrument. Any instrument. a repetitive pattern. A whole different experience of life will reveal.

[@christinemartin63]

"Delusional monkeybrains" ... is ... my opinion. (Who can challenge what they experience since it's unique and restricted to their brain?) Still ... I enjoyed this episode 😉 because it's so foreign to my way of thinking. However ... about poetry? Yes ... agreed!

[@cantthinkofaname0w0]

i love you

[@BotlheMolelekwa-ju2se]

The examples you gave are of people using logical reasoning to try to understand something they can't show without error in logical reasoning nor unbiased based evidence. It's like saying i studying Harry Potter franchise using logical reasoning to understand it and being convinced that it actually happened. If many people have similar experiences of what they call devine but can't prove without fallacies nor evidence that the conclusion of what their experience was then im always going to conclude that they don't know what happened to them just like every failed scientific hypothesis. If i could have the experience of what their experience then yes but it doesn't change anything about what we actually know what the experience is other than we are hallucinations. Every fact is based on something that corresponds with our interpretations of the interactions between laws of physics and our brains. Or else might as well say god put us in a matrix to test us and prove to Lucifer that we won't break even though he knows most of us will. We are not questioning the experience but the explanation of what was happening. Science uses the same thing with it's explanation of our perceived reality. Every claim has to have logical reasoning, less to no biased based evidence to show that someone knows what they are talking about. If not it's just guess work hoping that it's the correct answer. They maybe things that we can't find answers to yes but we also can't say we know what those experiences are other than hallucinations too. It's basically lying to ourselves because we can't find answers. Lie to yourself just enough and I'm pretty sure you will experience the mystic too.

[@davestauffer3912]

Seems like this would tie in nicely with Rudolf Otto and The Idea of the Holy.

[@FauxZen69]

Or, take some mushrooms like the mystics did as well.

[@hasanalharaz7454]

18:00 idk I don’t think your giving most people enough credit with this characterization. I think most people, even complete materialists can let these overwhelming feeling wash over them and try to get something deep out of it instead of instantly trying to rationalize it

[@TheSnitram1]

i have some thoughts after listening to this. i left the video with a feeling that seems to underline the video, that the "ultimate" form of mysticism is the religious one and that all other forms are some sort of a "pirated version". I understanf that the religious approac was for the sake of argument, but it seems to me the same argument can be made to something else, as exploring the self, deep thought, introspection, meditation, even without the concept of god. for a religious person to feel closer to god might be ultimate experience but for a non religious person feeling one with nature, finding the meaning of love might be the ultimate experience. So, it seems to me that the subjective experience can be as intense in both scenarios but i cannot prove it, i'm non religious haha

[@SentientRoomba]

Kyoto school yes please

[@MekbibTarekegn]

I'm not completely onboard with this view of the world because it relies on assumptions that may not even be true. This is fine but why wouldn't we consider the the alternative may be true. You said that there are many, who in particular are religious, who experience this thing. But some religious people have claimed not only that they've connected with a deity but also have given them commands and teachings. When this is happening in different religions, with contradictory commands/teachings, some of them have to indeed be wrong. And isn't it possibly they are frauds or listening to their own thoughts? How can we even say these different experiences are all the same? being one with god vs being one with everyone vs just letting things be? Also isn't it saying that "this is from god" a way of rationalising it? why is this alright, whereas finindg a scientific reason for it diminishes it? isn't not possible to see them deifying it as denying a human experience by claiming as it can't have come from them? My point isn't that this experience 100% doesn't exist and they're all just monkey brained but assuming that it is true and it can't explained and even worse it shouldn't be explained is another just another assumption. And also that doesn't seem correct to equate all these experiences that either are difficult to explain with words or impossible but not proven to be impossible as the same experience.

[@OftheRefrain]

I dunno about assigning perfect weight to assumption -- it might be better to acknowledge the experiential. Most of these accounts Critchley denotes arrive from individuals that have known tremendous processes of negation. Self-imposed or not--whatever the case, it is not an experience typically associated with leisure. Elsewhere, in medicine and the therapeutic domain there is support for otherwise normative, rational, functioning individuals having out-of-body experiences in response to severe or prolonged trauma, even years after the inciting traumatic event. Many of them go on to reformulate and reorder their life through appealing to the spiritual realm but as a class of people they are very often largely suspicious of institutional practice and even common day structures present in society. If there is indeed a corollary, consider yourself fortunate. From ancient times to this day, very often, so-called Mystics go through an 'initiation' of one coloring or another and it is usually very painful on the body and torturous to the mind. As for me, I have twice been on full-life-support. While I didn't see God near death, I certainly haven't seen the world in the same way since I came-to. 97.6% of my DNA is straight chimp. The Doctrine of Decreation. Amor Fati! Be well.

[@MekbibTarekegn]

@@OftheRefrain it is pretty cool that people were able to change their life because of those experiences. And I do not doubt that those experiences are valuable. But my problem with it, for example you mentioned people that people had out of body experiences. Well researchers run tests during cardiac arrests. They planted things that can be visually seen from the point of view of the people that often claim to have these experiences. But not a single one of them were able to tell the researchers the objects the researchers had put. Some even claimed to have seen the object but couldn't weren't actually correct when pointed it out. they definitely experienced something but it was not actually out of body. My main point is, just because we can not explain something with science either yet or never, does not mean we have to claim it came from a deity or that it is supernatural. And The idea that you shouldn't try to explain an experience because it will not let you reach it seems flawed. I don't see why you can't feel an experience and then later try to explain it if possible.

[@OftheRefrain]

@@MekbibTarekegn ...fair enough. I can add, I was beat into a state of reasonableness to make room for a kind of deity if you will. Mad respect but I have known, lived, experienced the throes of ecstasy and in the absence of a literary rupture, I simply say, it was instances of something close to the realm of God. And the instances of out of body experiences I was drawing from comes from a body of research following survivors of violent sexual crimes committed against them as children, not cases following cardiac arrest in adults. What these people in Critchley's book have done, is brain wiring. Neuro-Networks. Neuro-plasticity. And they were doing it before it was fashionable. Be Well, cheers

[@DAClub-uf3br]

Mysticism (Noun): belief characterized by self-delusion or dreamy confusion of thought, especially when based on the assumption of occult qualities or mysterious agencies. I don't think we need more delusion in our life.

[@whiplashTM]

Your comment might reflect exactly what this video tries to explain "How Mysticism is missing from our modern lives" - where we put everything into narrow definitions and explainations of human experiences (through "technology", psychological and sciencetific framing) - Some philosophers (Gilles Deleuze, Jan Patocka, Martin Heidegger etc... and religiously: Levinas, Arendt, Simone Weil, Soren Kierkegaard etc) would say that mysticism is a big part of every human beings experience and life in our common shared world. How these philosophers understands "mysticism" is vastly (and sometimes similiar) different where they deeply connect "mysticism" into our human condition. It is also deeply connected to the human experience in terms humans limitations (to have a rational understanding of a whole and coherent understanding over our world and experiences). As Jan Patocka points out, we're human beings with one leg shorter than the other, "a limping pilgrim searching for truth". Often in relation between the "known" and "unknown", "certainty" and "uncertainty", "day and night". In all of these philosophers works you will notice that they are very persisent on keeping their "theories" open for further examination - as they won't limit human experience into a idealistic and coherent whole (looking at you Hegel...). They are nonetheless deeply examining the human experience in relation to their own experiences. Don't you think that it's "delusional" to limit our human experiences into a static, dry and "simple" definition? You have to dig deeper into "mysticism" to find it's "true" meaning. A start is to read different views of how "mysticism" CAN be understood and use your "narrative imagination" (Martha Nussbaum) to try to picture how "mysticism" can impact your own life and experiences. But what do you mean by "delusion" ? A professor aiding me with my Masters (Gert Biesta) - speaks about a tension between "populism" (sciencetific proof, "what works", reducing things to their simplistic, one dimensional and uncomplicated forms) and "idealism" (exaggerated expectations of what you believe to be the correct course of action) - and that in our day and age are in is this tension of "what is" (populism) and "that which is not yet" (idealism) - where we either drag towards more secure scientific evidence or fall into utopian dreams. To truly understand "mysticism" in your own life - and to "get out" of this tension - is to examine how "mysticism" have a place in your own life - in a "here and now" everyday experience - where you are in direct contact with the known and uknown at the same time - where you get the full experience (but yet cannot fully comprehend). Understand your limitations - be curious - ask questions about others thoughts and work (especially dictionary definitions) - and last and not least, ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND BELIEFS - be free.

[@شهریار-ز2ج]

Wow the first like 🎉😂

[@keithayre6793]

complexity or simplicity?conciseness or sub-concisneess? this is the question, folks 😁

[@postholocene]

otoh, mysticism is just big, big business isn't it.

[@xCessivePresure]

Kyoto school +1

[@OftheRefrain]

I bought Critchley's new book since this episode debut. I also picked-up the Bloch & Bloch translation of _Song of Songs_ following Critchley's reference to it early in the book as well. Thank you, West. *Every angel is terrifying* --Rilke, _First Elegy_ I got a woman, she is near divine in my view. She sings to me from thousands & thousands of miles away and although, like, Lou Andreas-Salomé ditching Rilke's ass as they vacationed somewhere in Europe (excepting that I am no poet of course) she is divine and she is true. There is something unassailable throughout her ethic as well. First Responders have seen some s***. I first heard of St Teresa of Avila while reading George Eliot's first novel. I think, I'm gonna wander back and look for Simone Weil as the holiday approaches? In part, because of your insistence that there is something remarkable about her. West? I have been in some extraordinary libraries here in America, including, the Library of Congress as a teenager... You have amassed an exquisite collection here. There is hardly a man on the planet I envy but you are phenomenal West. Salon Societies is so on Point. All is to say, thank you. I keep coming back and my cup is made to overflow. I am no Alcibiades, I know that much.

[@reiniergamboa]

Eat psilocybin mushrooms in nature with an experienced friend. You won't need words

[@jasonhill9247]

Are you really a scientifically minded person that doest do drugs or was that a metaphor.

[@johnhigson6206]

Rand Shrugged