Episode #32: Light laser therapy for Parkinson's

The Secret Life of PD: We would like to welcome Dr. Wayne Markman, CEO of Symbyx Biome in Australia. Wayne shares his knowledge of the history of light laser therapy. Is this a new tool to help slow the progression of Parkinson's?
This is not a paid promotion. Brian and I were simply interested in the device and wanted to learn more in this area.

[@dickthomson3436]

Great video…Very informative and encouraging…Well done…Thank you.

[@uquantum]

Superb Jessica and Brian, thanks for sharing! ❤

[@thesecretlifeofparkinsons]

Our pleasure!

[@normanrubenzer]

excellent pod cast, thank you for looking into this. i would think everyone would have one if they were not on a fixed budget and inflation rising and digging into our pockets every week.could be a game changer for 2023 happy new year.

[@stk9387]

Best healthcare money can buy. Why healthcare in a for profit system will NEVER work.

[@jeancattoi2796]

Very informative, I am for anything that slows the symptoms of PD.

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@symbyxbiome]

@@cinekd585 You hold it against the skin

[@ParallaxView111]

Also check out Elliott Overton's interview with Daphne Bryan on treating Parkinson's with thiamine.

[@Rebel-Scientist]

So great to see light therapy getting recognition. There is excellent research in this field. Dr. Markham is a great advocate.

[@symbyxbiome]

Thanks Rebel Scientist. Agree there is excellent research in this field and more to come soon, too!

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@symbyxbiome]

Thank you for your supportive words!

[@symbyxbiome]

Your question is not clear to us.

[@finakhan5221]

Does it have scalar wave, terahertz light frequencies?

[@galaxytrio]

Very interesting.

[@edeasisianou2953]

I am from Papua New Guinea and have either PD or ET . I wonder if the device is available in my country otherwise how do I go about ordering one and how much would it be. Thankyou and God Bless

[@lynettefreeman6898]

Can someone with DBS use this light therapy also?

[@normanrubenzer]

between symbyx and the stanford medicine vibrating gloves. it should be a great year in 2023 for pd. what if the person with pd is hearing impaired and can not hear the beeps? then how does this help?

[@junetipton56]

I’ve been following the vibration glove treatment. Praying it comes out soon.

[@normanrubenzer]

i wonder if the full panel joovy would do the same thing in helping parkinson. trying to figure out which way is better. do you guys know anyone who has any luck with the red laser or photobiomodulation therapy?

[@taichiandqigong7266]

Hi, as a person living with parkinsons and a scientist, I'de like to share some quotes from peer reviewed scientific papers regarding what was said in this video. "Although there are one or two authors who continue to believe that coherent lasers are superior, most commentators feel that other parameters such as wavelength, power density, energy density and total energy are the most important determinants of efficacy." from Shining light on the head: Photobiomodulation for brain disorders, by Michael Hamblin. "Advantages of LEDs include no laser safety considerations, ease of home use, ability to irradiate a large area of tissue at once, possibility of wearable devices, and much lower cost per mW. LED photobiomodulation is here to stay." from Vladimir Heiskanena and Michael R. Hamblin, Photobiomodulation: lasers vs. light emitting diodes? Photochem. Photobiol. Sci., 2018,17, 1003-1017 There are dozens of studies showing that LED LIGHT IS HIGHLY EFFECTIVE for a range of applications and penetration of the light is not a problem. I use mostly LED devices for my therapy and I use a roughly $50 laser pointer for some areas and I have had massive reduction in symptoms. Around my diagnosis a 300mg levodopa dose reduced my tremor a bit. Now, a 50 mg dose of levodopa gets me to zero tremor. LEDs work fine. Don't wait to save up for something expensive. Start now.

[@samadhistate9637]

Spoke to my neurologist recently and asked him about this but he advised me that there is no clinical trial data or evidence that it works. Do yo have published clinical data that shows this benefits people with PD?

[@Lenteja77]

I’m in Austria where can I get it?

[@Ann-sf6od]

Why no placebo test? A legitimate, peer approved placebo test is the only way to prove this makes any difference.

[@Had2Listen]

Have watched a few videos from this company. Impressive results to date with 4000 already treated and several studies either completed or in progress. Will be contacting my wife’s PD neurologist today for feedback.

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@symbyxbiome]

Thank you for your interest. We will be announcing new clinical trial results shortly.

[@idaliaroman46]

Where can I purchase one I will try it

[@YABOYDRIFT7]

I know of an Indian physical therapist who did show me during my visit that he used this infra red therapy since 1980s for arthritis , dementia , skin diseases etc in his clinic . It’s just getting popular now here . I was astonished wow man !

[@qujelqujel1]

Dr. Name pls

[@symbyxbiome]

Thank you for sharing! As you say, infrared therapy has been popularly used by clinicians for a long time!

[@symbyxbiome]

@@qujelqujel1 We also have clinicians using our devices, who we can put you in touch with depending where you live.

[@annieasif2]

​@@symbyxbiomeany clinic in dubai that uses ur device

[@dianavincelli301]

Very interesting

[@idaliaroman46]

I'm also for any kind of experiment for any improvement on this disease

[@symbyxbiome]

Tried and tested and medically backed at this point. We have clients who, after 3 years, are showing no further regression which is excellent news. If you have any questions for us, please don't hesitate to reach out.

[@GVH1305]

Any physicians in Canada use them?

[@Bahiyyih4]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think dopamine itself makes the long journey from your gut to your brain via the vagus nerve. The nerve, I believe, pretty much just carries electrical signals. So the statement that the light shifts the gut bacteria so that they stop devouring the dopamine does not sound like a valid explanation. I'm not saying this device for sure doesn't work, but the placebo effect is also very strong. So until some actual placebo-controlled trials have been completed, I don't see good evidence that this device is effective at reducing Parkinson's symptoms

[@ds-mw7ur]

Dopamine is produced in the brain and not in the gut. The device may enhance optimum absorption of levodopa in the gut ensuring more Dopamine for the brain.

[@symbyxbiome]

Correct- sometimes in an attempt to get the message across, it gets over-simplified, when in reality the mechanism is usually complex and mulfi-faceted! You are correct in saying the dopamine in the gut does not cross the blood brain barrier to the brain. However, by improving gut health, it may be that the spread of abnormal alpha-synuclein proteins can be slowed, and also the microbiome can be changed (please see 2020 publication on our website which showed this), so that the gut bacteria could produce more short chain fatty acids such as butyrate. Butyrate has been shown to be neuroprotective for the dopamine-producing cells in the brain. On top of this, there are also local and systemic anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidating effects. But the exact mechanisms need more research. The best we can say for now is that there are many possible mechanisms, and that the research suggests that it works!

[@symbyxbiome]

@@ds-mw7ur Actually, approximately 50% of the dopamine in the body is produced in the gut. It's not just the brain. We do like your thinking around enhancing absorption of levodopa! However we also have customers who aren't taking medications still noticing improvements, and so as well as the possible mechanism you mention here, there are likely other mechanisms at work as well, particularly given that the gut, gutbrain axis and microbiome have been shown to be 'neuroprotective' to the brain. On top of this, there is also the strong link between gut health and Parkinson's disease. We recommend reading up on Braak's hypothesis for more of the thinking on that.

[@suzannealvarez2868]

Perhaps stimulation of the vagus nerve by the infrared light helps send the nerve cells function better and their signaling is better also which nay help stimulate the production of dopamine. The infrared light seems to rejuvenate needed functions in all cells of the body.

[@gv1043]

I just watched an interview of CEO of SYMBIX. His light has an is undergoing double blind clinical test on Parkinson patients . He states that led light has no healing effect because the light is to diffuse? His light is lazer. I have Parkinson’s and the light belt I am using is helping me?

[@githasingh9010]

The gut brain barrier can be fixed by fermented foods too

[@symbyxbiome]

Excellent point! We agree and advocate for this too. However, if you have food sensitivities, sometimes fermented foods can be aggravating for some people, so if that is the case, sometimes it's important to work with a nutritionist or other specialist who can help optimise diet to be used alongside sleep, stress management, regular exercise, mental health and light therapy :)

[@giorgioborelli4497]

Simple question : whats the wave lenght in nm? Also research Say the led infrared its more long lasting than laser infrared. Why to insist with laser light?

[@symbyxbiome]

The wavelength is 904 nm. Laser works better than LED for deeper structures, such as the gut. The statement that LED is more long lasting is incomplete and not a true reflection of research.

[@milliyliboslar649]

HOW TO CONTACT US ABOUT PARKINSON'S DISEASE IF YOU CAN HELP US

[@shaynadavidovhansonrealtor]

How do you get a Symbyx Laser in USA? PLEASE HELP.. My dad is a deserving Veteran.. Caridopa/ Levidopa is giving him REM disrupted sleep: which entails disturbing nightmares, active sleepwalking which is very dangerous.. MEDS ARE NOT WORKING AND EXCACERBATING PD

[@yolandagarcia3601]

I am so interested where can I find this please need more information

[@taichiandqigong7266]

Hi, as a person living with parkinsons and a scientist, I'de like to share some quotes from peer reviewed scientific papers regarding what was said in this video. "Although there are one or two authors who continue to believe that coherent lasers are superior, most commentators feel that other parameters such as wavelength, power density, energy density and total energy are the most important determinants of efficacy." from Shining light on the head: Photobiomodulation for brain disorders, by Michael Hamblin. "Advantages of LEDs include no laser safety considerations, ease of home use, ability to irradiate a large area of tissue at once, possibility of wearable devices, and much lower cost per mW. LED photobiomodulation is here to stay." from Vladimir Heiskanena and Michael R. Hamblin, Photobiomodulation: lasers vs. light emitting diodes? Photochem. Photobiol. Sci., 2018,17, 1003-1017 There are dozens of studies showing that LED LIGHT IS HIGHLY EFFECTIVE for a range of applications and penetration of the light is not a problem. I use mostly LED devices for my therapy and I use a roughly $50 laser pointer for some areas and I have had massive reduction in symptoms. Around my diagnosis a 300mg levodopa dose reduced my tremor a bit. Now, a 50 mg dose of levodopa gets me to zero tremor. LEDs work fine. Don't wait to save up for something expensive. Start now. Look on ebay , try to get something that has a warranty.

[@sandi4215]

I blew off my weird evolving symptoms as fibromyalgia Which I’ve had for 30 years…until I developed tremors and the penny dropped. If this works for both conditions I’d be ecstatic. I’m on a pension so it’ll be a while to save up for it but I’m seriously considering going for it. 🤞

[@symbyxbiome]

Yes. The PDCare and DuoCare help both Parkinson's and Fibromyalgia.

[@symbyxbiome]

The DuoCare is faster than the PDCare (20 minute treatments in 7 minutes) and stronger for treating Fibromyalgia, however both laser devices work perfectly well for treatment of both conditions.

[@taichiandqigong7266]

Hi, as a person living with parkinsons and a scientist, I'de like to share some quotes from peer reviewed scientific papers regarding what was said in this video. "Although there are one or two authors who continue to believe that coherent lasers are superior, most commentators feel that other parameters such as wavelength, power density, energy density and total energy are the most important determinants of efficacy." from Shining light on the head: Photobiomodulation for brain disorders, by Michael Hamblin. "Advantages of LEDs include no laser safety considerations, ease of home use, ability to irradiate a large area of tissue at once, possibility of wearable devices, and much lower cost per mW. LED photobiomodulation is here to stay." from Vladimir Heiskanena and Michael R. Hamblin, Photobiomodulation: lasers vs. light emitting diodes? Photochem. Photobiol. Sci., 2018,17, 1003-1017 There are dozens of studies showing that LED LIGHT IS HIGHLY EFFECTIVE for a range of applications and penetration of the light is not a problem. I use mostly LED devices for my therapy and I use a roughly $50 laser for some areas and I have had massive reduction in symptoms. Around my diagnosis a 300mg levodopa dose reduced my tremor a bit. Now, a 50 mg dose of levodopa gets me to zero tremor. LEDs work fine. Don't wait to save up for something expensive. Start now.

[@ashishbhattacharaya5181]

Where can I get it at Kolkata in INDIA

[@marjorieapicelli9]

How long does it take to notice improvement?

[@symbyxbiome]

Average length of time to respond is typically 8-12 weeks

[@ricksuvanto5009]

Please proceed with caution. We're all looking for the big cure and are sometimes desperate and willing to try anything at a cost. Just remember if this were an amazing breakthrough we would have heard about it by now.

[@patriciapitt4228]

Hi Ricky good advice, when I was a Nurse 65 years ago, We used Inferray Red lamps to HEAL all sorts of wounds and sores, maybe we can still buy them at the Chemist do know the one person Sauna I R works against Cancer as using one have been cancer free for 23 yrs, all the best to everyone take Extra care Chow Now lol ***.

[@tompilling4154]

FDA is too caught up in vaccines and Rx than uv light therapy. It all about the dolla$

[@symbyxbiome]

@@patriciapitt4228 thank you for sharing! As you say, light therapy has been used medically for a long time already- dating back over 100 years, in fact. Not all devices are built equally, and it's always a question of dose and wavelength when choosing the right device. For Parkinson's disease, when it comes to infrared light, the SYMBYX devices are the first to be medically-approved for a reduction in PD symptoms. This is because of their unique technical features, the wavelength, dosage, and treatment protocol.

[@dallinheatherhardy2683]

I like the buyer beware sentiment, but that should apply across the board and not just to new things. A lot of long-accepted treatments are terrible or useless. I don't know how efficacious the Symbyx laser treatment is, nor for whom it is most helpful if it does have utility, but...Wow! Anyone who believes this fallacy does not know the history of scientific discovery: "If (blank) were really an amazing breakthrough we would have heard about it sooner." Really?! I see almost no historical data to support the idea that new ideas spread easily. On the other hand there's a LOT of evidence of significant opposition to the spread of good ideas and newly discovered advancements (think Galileo, Semmelweis, and many more). This concept is full of hubris and implies a naive trust that society is free of corruption, factions, special interests, etc. Please reconsider holding to this ridiculous belief. An explanation which better fits the lived experience of how innovation and discovery have always interfaced with broader society would be that it is primarily incentives and motives other than the merits of the innovations and ideas themselves which drive the rapidity of awareness and adoption. There may be good arguments against this modality for parkinsons, but dismissing something solely because it has not been rapidly widely adopted in the public awareness is absolutely pitiful.

[@symbyxbiome]

@@dallinheatherhardy2683 thank you for your thoughtful point! We totally agree. Current Parkinson's medications such as L-dopa have been used since the 60's with relatively little innovation. They replace the dopamine that's lost but are a band-aid solution and many people wind up with gut issues and possibly even nigral accumulation in the brain (more research here is needed). Our devices are natural, painless and work to stimulate the body's natural cellular processes. The question should be WHY are these cells that produce dopamine getting sick in the first place? Laser light therapy works to address some of these possible mechanisms to help the body to naturally function better. Of course we need more research; so much about PD is still unknown. However results have shown to date that our devices are significantly effective in reducing PD symptoms, up to 3 years later, and with little to no side effects! Larger trials are currently underway in a number of countries.

[@257rani]

Light Therapy ❤🇦🇺🌏G'day from Victoria. ❤🤝

[@symbyxbiome]

Gday Mithrani!

[@renmuffett]

Where can we find the laser light tool?

[@taichiandqigong7266]

Hi, as a person living with parkinsons and a scientist, I'de like to share some quotes from peer reviewed scientific papers regarding what was said in this video. "Although there are one or two authors who continue to believe that coherent lasers are superior, most commentators feel that other parameters such as wavelength, power density, energy density and total energy are the most important determinants of efficacy." from Shining light on the head: Photobiomodulation for brain disorders, by Michael Hamblin. "Advantages of LEDs include no laser safety considerations, ease of home use, ability to irradiate a large area of tissue at once, possibility of wearable devices, and much lower cost per mW. LED photobiomodulation is here to stay." from Vladimir Heiskanena and Michael R. Hamblin, Photobiomodulation: lasers vs. light emitting diodes? Photochem. Photobiol. Sci., 2018,17, 1003-1017 There are dozens of studies showing that LED LIGHT IS HIGHLY EFFECTIVE for a range of applications and penetration of the light is not a problem. I use mostly LED devices for my therapy and I use a roughly $50 laser pointer for some areas and I have had massive reduction in symptoms. Around my diagnosis a 300mg levodopa dose reduced my tremor a bit. Now, a 50 mg dose of levodopa gets me to zero tremor. LEDs work fine. Don't wait to save up for something expensive. Start now. Lopk on ebay , try to get something that has a warranty.

[@lyndaedwards4628]

Do this take away the tremor, wonder if it work on dystonia

[@symbyxbiome]

Reduces dystonia in many patients although tremor is more difficult to control.

[@963tusharkanti]

Whether a perkinson patient can use this device after DBS surgery?

[@syedazmatali3255]

After using this device or some time, how can we TEST that device is still effectively working ?

[@symbyxbiome]

Hi Syed, When you turn on the laser device and press it onto your bare skin, the laser should make audible beeps and a green band of light should be ON around your device. If not, you may need to change batteries. Or also feel free to please contact us anytime at [e-mail] or phone [phone] for assistance.

[@cinekd585]

Try with a flashlight and you will have an idea of the efficiency of this gadget 🙄

[@GoProGoalieUzi]

Interesting. I personally am not sold on it. It seems good and makes sense. I have not participated in any clinical tests yet, perhaps one day I will. Thank you for sharing ❤️🇨🇦

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@symbyxbiome]

Feel free to follow us for more videos, or sign up to our newsletter, as we hope to continue interviewing specialists around the world involved in laser light therapy and Parkinson's. Also, if you have any questions, we are happy to answer them.

[@lizsteilkie]

My dad died from PD. It was awful-how do I know if I have it? I'm 66 and I'm already ill

[@gregb8571]

Your doctor needs to test your reflexes to see if you have PD. It is not obvious in the early stages. It is important to diagnose it as early as it could take a long time to get an appointment with a neurologist to start treatment. My doctor realized I had PD when he took my blood pressure because I moved my arm slowly. He also noticed I have an expressionless face. I am 66 too. I have had PD for 4 years.

[@symbyxbiome]

Unfortunately a lot of people are diagnosed too late, and may have already had Parkinson's for a long time by the time they're diagnosed. Act early and take a preventative approach rather than waiting for symptoms to develop/worsen.

[@Kuvtsisk]

Hello, is this available in the US? My dad has PD and is interested

[@symbyxbiome]

We are currently working with the regulatory bodies in the US, but you can already order it online- we already have free worldwide shipping available with DHL.

[@vasanthim9955]

Is this available in Australia? How to buy?

[@vasanthim9955]

@@symbyxbiome is it available in Australia

[@caros6996]

😊

[@baileystruss7319]

I don't think LED light is useless. Its the wavelength and not the intensity that determines penetration. There are studies supporting that. But see Medcrams discussion on light as medicine and learn why sunlight can do all these things for FREE.

[@francocarrieri1988]

Any joy from that on Fibromyalgia people?

[@stk9387]

My big criticism of this … is that they make the price so out of reach for most people. I don’t understand the point of doing good things gif profit. Disappointing.

[@garymoore3159]

I have a bridge....

[@PureLivingJourney]

Why not just get this light from sun exposure? No need to pay that amount of money for something that is available free from the sun.

[@Debbie_Bcool]

Almost $2000.

[@symbyxbiome]

AUD1 950.00

[@sujatajampana449]

Not working

[@cinekd585]

Obviously, how could it work? Probably by magic…

[@harindersingh517]

There are very many papper scientific which make it clear that the wave length and colour are important. Led is as effective as lazer light. Laser light 60to 70 joules will not penetrate the abdominal wall the into abdominal cavity seek out large bowel and act The large has has the microbiome I am not denying efficacy of your product. Best wishes

[@symbyxbiome]

Hello Harinder, you make some excellent points- the wavelength (which is, in fact, what determines the colour), is important. The debate continues as to whether LED is as effective as laser light, and many studies suggest, particularly when using medical laser (which is different to a wellness product), that laser is more effective than LED. The 904nm wavelength used in the PDCare device maximises depth of penetration, and laser also will penetrate deeper than LED, giving it much more specific and better chances to reach the gut. The mechanisms of how this works is via cell to cell communication, particularly in cells of the nervous system and immune system, and so there are both local and systemic effects from using the laser. Actually, the microbiome lives throughout and even on us! it is in the large intestine, but it is also in the small intestine, the stomach, the mouth, and on our skin. We think you meant to say is that stool sampling largely only tests the microbiome of the large intestine, which is why much of the research focuses on the gut microbiome as it lives within the large intestine. However, it's important to remember that actually it lives throughout and on us! The number of joules used in this treatment were actually shown to alter the microbiome amongst the participants, so actually you're incorrect there- it DOES it appear that it is enough of a dosage to prove effective (remember the biphasic dose response of light therapy as well: more isn't always better, and can actually be detrimental to healing responses). You can watch more about our products and their mechanisms of action on our youtube channel.

[@kambyolyrico924]

how to order this?and how much?

[@symbyxbiome]

Please order your PDCare Laser online at www.symbyxbiome.com or call us anytime. The cost varies depending on your currency/region. Cost approx $1250 USD. In addition we have qualified SYMBYX clinicians in most regions to assist you with your treatment or any questions you may have. The device has a 2 year warranty and is delivered via DHL worldwide.

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@GVH1305]

@@cinekd585 Did they answer you?

[@raylindstromnz]

Where can i buy one

[@symbyxbiome]

www.symbyxbiome.com

[@symbyxbiome]

We are a Sydney, Australia based company currently undergoing 3 much larger RC trials for parkinsons in Canada, Adelaide and Sydney.

[@LHink96]

Wish they had trials in the US

[@cinekd585]

How much do you touch?

[@petercarleton4151]

@@symbyxbiome😅

[@marycain5668]

Host are you really engaged in this? Doesn't appear you're nonverbal is.

[@suzannealvarez2868]

Uses SOUND and beats

[@ivankos3305]

The price for this kind of device is a ripoff...

[@symbyxbiome]

It's the only medically-approved laser therapy device in the world for a reduction in PD symptoms. It has a very high safety profile and negligible side effects....it's a one-off purchase, vs. ongoing medications and specialist appointments, it focuses on improving the cellular health of people using it (as opposed to L-Dopa medication, which is a bandaid solution, and does nothing to address why the cells that produce dopamine are sick and dysfunctional in the first place), and it's improving the quality of life for our customers around the world, who are showing great results and who have ongoing clinical support from us for as long as they need it. On top of that, we are actively invested in research towards a cure of the condition. We are proud to be helping so many people with our bespoke, quality devices.

[@ivankos3305]

@@symbyxbiome Thanks for the replay. I did not dispute symbyx usefulness. The device like this can be mass manufactured relatively inexpensive.You addressed many things, but not its price.

[@ivankos3305]

@@symbyxbiome9275 Let's say you market symbyx at 1/2 price, and sell twice as many devices. You would be happy and so would be your customers...

[@cinekd585]

And of course, no video "before" and "after"! How dare you abuse of the credulity of people suffering from Parkinson's disease? Shame on you!

[@cinekd585]

@@symbyxbiome I have Parkinson's and I cannot stand being laughed at, to make money on our suffering. That's it

[@symbyxbiome]

Absolutely no-one is laughing at you. We are a research-backed medical science company assisting as many PWP as possible to manage their symptoms. We have a extensive clinical team and a large ongoing commitment to research trials with some leading universities. Best regards. The SYMBYX Biome Team

[@brentweaver3092]

We just ordered one from symbyx and have great hope for this product.

[@cinekd585]

@@brentweaver3092 « … we have great hope ». If you have really PD and if you’re a real buyer and not a fake one dedicated to support this company, tell us more about your current treatment? Just to check the veracity of your message. One more thing, take a photo of your invoice and show it to us, just to prove you are a real buyer and not just a liar 🤨

[@cinekd585]

@SYMBYX Biome You are saying I am doing a major disservice to the Parkinson's community? What do you mean exactly? A major disservice to people who deeply suffer from this difficult disease, or a major disservice to your company? My side, I am on the point to have a DBS surgery and I don't have the heart to joke or maintain polemics for the pleasure. What I am asking your company, is to make a video "Before & after" with different patients showing without special effect, the benefits that they can get and prove that way, the real efficiency of your product. Facts not words. If these video can prove any real efficiency, I will be the first to acknowledge my wrongs and apologize. You know what you have to do, the ball is in your camp. Best regards