Episode VI: Does Judge Holden Kill the Kid?

In this episode, I explain what happens to the Kid in that Fort Griffin outhouse at the end of Blood Meridian--and exactly how we know.

[@rjfarris8324]

The first time I read the book this is what I thought happened. After further reading and research I’ve come to a different conclusion, while I don’t know if it’s true, I feel gives a more poetic but much more brutal ending. When the kid’s appearance is described they specifically mention he has quite large hands. While the inverse is said of The Judge, his hands mentioned as being quite small. I don’t recall when but they find a young Mexican girl killed and clearly violated. The narrator mentions a large hand print around the neck of the child. At the end after the kid, now the man, talks to Holden in the saloon, he goes and seeks company with a prostitute. Who just so happens to be a midget Mexican woman. After not being able to perform he leaves her and she tells him not to be ashamed. He then goes outside, where he notices the people looking for the little girl who’s bear was shot, he goes to the Jakes to find the Judge already naked. We then skip to an anonymous “man” peeing outside of the jakes. Telling the other man in an almost uncaring and nonchalant tone, “I wouldn’t go in there if I was you.” I believe the kid and the judge brutalized the girl at the end and that the kid was just as corrupt as the judge. I believe when they say the judge will never die they’re referring to his complete corruption of the kid. Turning the kid and changing his philosophy into that of the judge. We are told in the first pages that the kid has a strong desire of violence and showed multiple times that he is not as morally right as some believe he is. I believe the kid rode the fence during his time in the gang. He may have possessed some morals but they did not outweigh his desire for violence. I could go on but this comment is far too long already. I’ll end with the scene when the judge meets the kid when he’s in jail in California. “I’d have loved you boy. I’d have loved you like a son.”

[@rjfarris8324]

Addendum bc I just love talking about this book. It just shows the beauty of how different each individual’s interpretations can be. The layers and references are so insane that you can draw vastly different conclusions through multiple reads of the same text. Another wonderful video man!

[@davidobrien8477]

Interesting comment man, I love the ease at which this book is opined and discussed. It’s a gift to be able to re read and think about it.

[@folkestrid5923]

I don't think the large hand print on the neck of the child is actually from Blood Meridian, I think it's from "My Confession" by Samuel Chamberlain where the real Judge Holden is described. I may be wrong, but I can't seem to recall the book mentioning a hand print, just killed children.

[@rjfarris8324]

@@folkestrid5923 I believe you’re actually correct. I remember hearing about it but was unsure where and currently don’t have the book on hand to look.

[@kevinu9528]

Do you think the theory the judge is the horseman of the apocalypse WAR? He has been witnessed by most of the company before joining them in the desert. He is a great favorite (young men love it and old men love it in them, those that fought those that have not) and he says he will never die(war is as old as men the judge said it was around before man waiting for them). Tell me, what do you think?

[@omarsabeur9039]

Great stuff man

[@AmericanGwyn]

Thank you!

[@kennhiser]

Has anyone considered cannibalism? Perhaps he ate the kid/man and now feels he will live forever? We have to consider how brutal this world was and therefore what was seen must have been so horrible even by those standards.

[@TheEggeater1111]

Is it homophobic? It seems like an out house might be a place a person would encounter a predator in real life. Besides being a chomo the judge is also a homosexual. How come that is just glanced over and not worthy of analysis?

[@elricofmelnibone425]

Homosexuality is definitely a sub-theme in the novel, however I don’t think it’s handled in a bigoted way.

[@pizzacheeseman2854]

Homosexuality/Heterosexuality or any other identity as we understand it would not have been a conceptual framework for almost anyone in the setting and the judge is definitely not a homosexual. He preys on children of both genders and never to my recollection expresses anything sexual toward adults.

[@pizzacheeseman2854]

If you mean to say McCarthy was trying to talk about homosexuality in a homophobic manner I think it is unlikely that is what he was going for given the way he writes about transgender characters in his later work (which is to say, well, and empathetically.)

[@TheEggeater1111]

@@pizzacheeseman2854 I was saying criticizing homosexuals is acceptable. Like when one rapes someone in a bathroom. He was avoiding criticism of gay people. Probably out of cowardice. The Judge is LGBT and is getting a pass on being a chomo. That happens in real life too. Whatever dude a man with two fingers could count how many genders there are.

[@geordiejones5618]

I've never heard ANY academic or commentator of this book, other than you here, make the connection between the offstage killing of children by the Judge and the final offstage killing of the man (the KID). All we know is that it's gruesome, same as the others based on the reactions.

[@HigrationsMintergrund420]

Toadvine grew on me, when he put the gun on the judges head. I really hoped that he would fire (Toadvine was pretty fucked up himself, but even that was too much for him)

[@bluegregory6239]

Toadvine is one of my favorite characters in this great novel.

[@thehazyblob]

I wonder what happened to turn a priest into a scalp hunter.

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

​@@thehazyblobHe wasn't actually an ordained priest

[@elmochomo8218]

@@skeletonbuyingpealts7134I thought Judge was Satan himself

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

@@elmochomo8218 I think he's just an asshole with a skin condition

[@conorwellman8592]

I dont think he killed the kid but the missing girl instead and that the kid was the one going to the bathroom outside. McCarthy does this in his books. Similar to No Country for Old Men the whole book/movie builds up to a final showdown between the protagonist and main antagonist but it never happens and Blood Meridian builds up to a final showdown between the Judge and the Kid but I think it never happens. Instead the Judge kills the girl with The Kid watching and after seeing it happen the kid warned the others not to go in there. The Judge prevailed not because he killed The Kid but because he corrupted The Kid again after it seems like The Kid had left that life and the kid returns to "the dance."

[@toussaid5340]

This is some of the best blood meridian content on the internet

[@AmericanGwyn]

Too kind!

[@talyonprevails9810]

I enjoyed your video, but there is one objection that I have: The killing of Elord was no self-defence at all. Since the Kid/Man anticipated Elord's intentions, he could simply have left... like he did with Holden! (From a judgmental point of view: Why would Elord have deserved death more than Holden?) Also, he could have injured Elord instead of fatally shooting him (it is explicitly stated that the Kid/Man is a very capable shooter and he had all the time in the world). He clearly chose to kill Elord and more than that: He didn't even show any sign of compassion for Elord's brother. I think it is no coincidence that the Judge who apparently couldn't sense/see the Kid/Man for decades time, all of a sudden was able to locate him right after the killing.

[@pizzacheeseman2854]

It all depends on how you define self defense. It’s clear that the kid didn’t really want to kill him, but also wasn’t willing to do much to avoid a situation where he would have to kill him, and isn’t particularly bothered by doing so I think what’s special about it is he’s killing a young version of himself, like in that movie looper if it was actually good.

[@MatejBlazek-sb5cv]

Doesn't one of the Delewares kill 2 infants very brutally?

[@MatejBlazek-sb5cv]

Love your videos, your interpretation of the book is very insightful, wish you the best!

[@ProudGirlDadX2]

So I have a thought that has been nagging at me ever since I read this book for a 2nd time. I thought it was good to be addressed here but it wasn't so now I'm not sure if I'm just reaching to far or if the and is so obvious that it doesn't need to be addressed and Im just too slow to put it together. Anyways I have not heard anyone mention it anywhere so now I'm just going to ask it and risk making a fool of myself.... Here it is.... The 15 year old Elrond, after The Kid/Man kills him and his siblings come collect the body they give a brief description of his life. Are Elrond and his brother the grandchildren or great grandchildren of "the traveller" who was murdered by the harness maker waaay back during Judge Holdens 1st campfire story??? The description seems to be spot on. Or am I just confusing myself??

[@lorraineyang2271]

Hi Aaron, thanks for this. I agree, and I think there's strong textual evidence to support this reading that isn't in this short clip. Just putting it out there for other YTubers. So, we know the Judge is abhorrent and horrific; the clip has covered this, he murders children and probably (it's intimated) a pedophile. But more than this supports the ending of the Kid that you've laid out here. The first thing we have to look at is what Tobin told the Kid in the desert, when the latter shows mercy: "Fool. God will not love ye forever. Dont you know he’d of took you with him? He'd of took you, boy. Like a bride to the altar." The other thing is that the Kid is hiding from the Judge in the desert, going through a trial. We can't help but think of the temptation of Jesus. The Judge is the devil. If not him, then something as bad; there is a supernatural element to the character. The Kid escapes, but later, as we know, the Judge returns. Now, before the final ending of the Kid, the Judge says to him: "Dont be afraid. I'll speak softly. It’s not for the world’s ears but for yours only. Let me see you. Dont you know that I'd have loved you like a son?". C.f. the Bible (I'm using the KJV), John 17.23, Jesus says to God: " I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me". God loves humankind as He loves his only Son. The Judge's words are a twisted perversion of what's in the Bible. Now, so are his actions. The Judge mixes up all proper relations, makes a parody of all normative ethics. He rapes children, but more than that, he rapes someone he claims he loves "like a son" -- performs a sexual act -- a nonconsensual sexual act that results in the death of the Kid -- with someone whom he claims he loves like a son. It's a pretty striking textual perversion of what Tobin says to the Kid about the latter's relation to God. It also mixes up all sorts of relations -- what we should do with our children (love and nurture) with our spouses (have consensual sexual relations, among other things). It's a matter of destroying the *order* set out in the Bible; in that sense the Judge really is the Devil. "You ain't nothing", the Kid tells the Judge. "You speak truer than you know", is the Judge's reply. And this makes sense, biblically. The Devil does not have an order of his own. His existential purpose is to thwart God's order, he is anarchy and destruction to God's order and creation. My one question left answered is: why did what happened to the kid happen at THAT point? This, maybe you can shed some light on. Does it have anything to do with the prostitute? After all, the Kid is but a teenager when he is travelling with the Judge. Would the Judge have done what he did to other children to the Kid? Why was he left alone? If he had managed to kill both Tobin and the Kid in the desert, it wouldn't have happened. Why, only then, does the Judge "finally" do what he does to the Kid? A nagging mystery for me.

[@lorraineyang2271]

I'll add that in the context of the book, I think that sodomy might be considered "unnatural" too, but I have no idea what McCarthy's views on sexuality are [I'm very much a believer in gay rights and gay marriage, and trans rights, but the "vibe" I'm getting off the text is that perhaps one of the orders of the Bible that the Judge destroys is the injunction that sex is between a man and a woman]

[@whitekony1006]

This has been a great journey man, I appreciate what youve done here more than I can say. There's been a surfeit of Blood Meridian content since McCarthy passed away,ive had a playlist of what little there was on the book on youtube for years. And now so much to parse through,of varied quality. Your series has been one of my favorites. Ive read this book hundreds of times, given away tens of copies. It spoke to my innermost self lol. When I left rehab, I had all my friends sign my dog eared copy of Blood Meridian rather than a Big Book haha. Funny to say this has become my comfort read,many would probably find that very strange, but god,the beauty of the language, the beauty of it.

[@AmericanGwyn]

This is awesome! What a great rehab story!!!

[@johnndamascene]

I will continue to search for any way possible to not confront the reality of the ending. Great vid

[@AmericanGwyn]

TY!

[@johnschisler5381]

Let it hit you lol. I hate it so much. And it hurts. But it's an amazing piece of art. It's the best possible ending for this book.

[@chutzpahclang5485]

I think how a person understands that ob-scene when they first read it is heavily influenced by the particular bent of that persons outlook, obviously. When I first read it, I understood it that the judge was both violating the kid-now-the-mans physical person aswell as intruding into him, like two beings occupying the exact same physical space. I understood it that the judge was essentially diving into the kids body in order to possess him to rape the girl with the missing bear, that the body found raped to death in the toilets is the girls, that the undefined man pissing in the mud is the kidnowtheman with the last of his humanity removed, no longer anything we recognise from what he was before. That was my immediate understanding. I have only read three mcarthy novels, BM, child of god and the road, and this is the only thing that comes close to depicting an out n out metaphysical or paranormal event, unless you have the religious outlook where worldly events like the kids mercy contain within them acts of god.

[@Truffle_Pup]

Having just re-read BM over last night and this morning, something new popped out to me. There is repeated reference dotted throughout to the skinning of human hides, not just scalping, but flaying. From very early on Cormac mentions the horses of the gang draped in human skins, hair and teeth. When the Judge reappears with them in Chihuahua next to Glanton after his chaotic introduction (the Kid and Toadvine are in jail with Grannyrat hoping to get out by joining them) he is wearing "Kid Skin Boots". I know that they are goat skin but still, an alarm bell went off in my dome. It really is so early on in the book (right after the Comanche attack on Capt White's band) that it made me immediately think - maybe the Judge skinned the Kid in the jakes? Or scalped him at the very least. Motive being, for going against his tenets of war and selfishness? (When the Man turns up in the bar at the very end it feels like the Judge thinks he has come to kill him, the entire conversation is about death and conflict, and we all know the Judge's God literally IS War.) Whatever happened to the Man, it is surely horrifying to even look at. Yes, being horrifically sodomised would be awful, but there is definitely something more instantly visual upon opening the door. I think skinning/flaying/scalping would certainly tick that box. Remember, by the end of the Glanton Gang's run, scalping is so watered down, so normal, just another receipt, that they do it without the promise of reward at the ferry. But shake yourself. It is Not normal. It is horrific, violent, and shocking.

[@kennhiser]

But the book had shown us such violence throughout. This had to be much worse to warrant it being so obscene (in the definition of the video)

[@UngKristen]

Besides the problem of describing the kid's murder (which I agree is pretty clearly what happened), I do think the omission of the act/aftermath serves another purpose: a glimmer of hope Could it be that the kid gets to his gun and kills the judge, who then goes on to do his naked fiddling as a kind of ghostly death dance/immortal being/spirit thing? Maybe it's the dead body of the judge that prompts the reaction of the man who opens the door. Maybe it's the body of the judge and the girl. Maybe the story ends when the door is opened and the rest is a weird surreal zoom-out. But yeah, the kid died in there. These are just contrarian readings I'm playing with. Still the motif of "some say he escaped and was never seen again" fits well with the western genre

[@conorwellman8592]

yeah don't think the kid died or the judge died that is too much of a simple ending for a Cormac book. I think the Judge killed the missing girl with the kid watching which is an even darker ending. the kid was the man going to the bathroom outside and that is the only implied aftermath we get.

[@pauldodge1975]

Mountains of books is pretty dope as well

[@cheapdatexoxo]

Well that was a waste of time. A couple of minutes drawn and dramaticized just to tell you information anyone whose read the novel understands.

[@torontobiblestudy]

Nah, the Judge did not rape or kill the Kid.

[@cheapdatexoxo]

@@torontobiblestudy well i think its up for interpretation but id like to agree

[@VardaTruffle]

I don’t think you can assume a literal rape at the end. I think if we know anything about McCarthy’s metaphysics, it is that the true violation is corrupting the kid into a new criminal. A man who eventually kills the judge and becomes like him. Wise. Considered. Lethal. He will never die. The judge’s dance is purely spiritual and non material. It is an eternal dance, as he himself foreshadows. After the kid there was the man. The man kills Elrod, another kid. The man who is urinating and warns people not to witness what he’s done to the judge. He is a favorite. It’s why the meteor shower is on the same night. The man becomes like the judge. A god of war.

[@danielmangan6796]

@AmericanGwyn, excellent content on this channel. I think you're spot on with what happened to the man (Kid). This may be rather crude, but I think the answer as to what the Judge did to the Kid is metaphorically stated in the latter half of the sentence: "He was naked and he rose up smiling and gathered him in his arms against his immense and terrible flesh and shot the wooden barlatch home behind him." Maybe I'm being a bit too 'CSI' here, but it does say that the Judge gathered the Kid into his arms (plural, as in both of his arms). And then the Judge 'shot the barlatch home' behind him. So with which arm/hand would the Judge have operated the barlatch behind him, both of his arms already being occupied restraining the Kid? Thus I don't think the Judge literally moved the barlatch shut. The 'shooting of the barlatch home behind him,' (if you take 'him' to mean the Kid) seems more likely a metaphor for the physical act of the Judge violating the Kid, because the Judge already had both arms occupied gathering the Kid against his "immense and terrible flesh." Thus, I think the answer is hiding right there in plain sight. As to whether the Judge killed the Kid after raping him, I think that is easily answered by looking at what the Judge did to everyone else he raped.

[@NoNameNo.5]

“Drink! Drink up! This night thy soul may be required by thee!”

[@ColSanders2]

Yes, very much so

[@gerardluken6544]

Great series. Thank you so much! Regarding the bone pickers section: when they leave with Elrod's dead body, one member keeps looking back at the kid, I think the youngest member. I heard or read an opinion that he is the next "kid." That he will most likely grow up with a mindless taste for violence, and maybe even seek revenge on the kid. (Maybe you covered that and I missed it). Anyway-just an observation that intrigued me and that I agree with.

[@gddess9502]

so good. (that's what i figured happened at the end, too)

[@AmericanGwyn]

Thanks, man!

[@epmcgill8301]

The Kid is in a later McCarthy book.

[@chrissmith9167]

What book would that be?

[@pauldodge1975]

The passenger