Epoxy vs Rubio Monocoat vs Polyurethane vs Lacquer

[@drakorez]

This is the most helpful wood finishing video I have seen and I have seen a LOT of them. Thank you so much for this.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad you found it helpful! I’m hoping to get a second round done soon.

[@mchilly]

I really enjoyed your finish tests. If you end up doing another test, maybe try adding a hot cup of coffee for the heat test and then a glass of ice water for the cold, damp test. I think this test using professional finishes like Pre Cat Lacquer, 2K Polyurethane, and Conversion Varnish would be even more interesting. Thanks

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great ideas! I was on the same page for the hot/cold test and I appreciate the other finish ideas!

[@jessicat3951]

My favorite finishes are LeTonkinois and wipe on poly. If you want a cheap way to use old-fashioned poly, buy the flattest option, decant 50% without stirring up the dulling agent that sinks to the botoom of the can. Keep it in a jar and use it for all coats but your top coat. For the top coat, use the original can, and stir up the dulling agent from the bottom. This results in a much more dull and less plastic-like finish. Poly is definitely the most rugged finish, but applying it the old way is a pain, and refinishing is also a pain.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I’ll have to check into them! Thanks for the tip!

[@Noahwxlr]

Excellent video! I just got an unfinished Acacia butcherblock island countertop that will become a custom standing desk. It's been a toss up between Rubio Monocoat or Poly for the finish and this really helped. Definitely going with a satin poly.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad you found it helpful! And that sounds gorgeous!

[@danielpaquette1597]

I finished my dining room oak table with 5 coats of Tung oil. That was 25 years (and three kids) ago. It has held up great and still looks wonderful.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Good to know! I’m planning on doing another round of testing with some other finishes and I’ll have to add Tung oil to the list.

[@jeffbarrett7497]

Tung oil for sure. Also Odie's Oil. (Contains tung oil and other waxes and oils also)

[@DavidYPerez]

I really appreciate your video. Looking to finish a slab for a firehouse and this covered everything I had questions on.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad to hear it! If you’re up to it, I’d love to see how it turns out!

[@Thebeardedviking865]

This video was perfect timing for me. Finishing a live edge coffee table and was going to go with Rubio but I need something a little stronger. Poly seems to be the way to go. Thanks

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

So glad to hear it! Rubio seemed like the best option for the most natural look but it certainly wasn’t the most resilient. I agree, poly has become one of my go-to’s following this test. Once you’re done, I’d love to see a photo of final product! Feel free to tag me on Instagram (@northwestcraftsman) or shoot me an email (in about tab) if you’re fine sharing 😊 Happy Woodworking! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@hovan2yourjunk]

Perfect timing and glad I found ya. Excellent video…thanks for putting in an A+ effort. Just built a cherry and pine tabletop for my dining table and was leaning towards Rubio but going with a poly after seeing this video. Thanks again!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad it helped! I was also surprised by the results and will likely lean much more heavily on poly. I've also found that it isn't hard to spray polyurethane and achieve a MUCH nicer finish than brushing it on. Just thin it a little with lacquer thinner and it sprays like a champ. Just watch out for the overspray because it will settle and gum things up.

[@leonardodalongisland]

"Dinosaur table"????

[@raizt1596]

Depends on if you have kids really. If you use a really hard wood and clean up spills quickly, the hard wax oils like Rubio look the best, but protect the least. If you don't mind the shiny plastic look that may yellow over time, the plastic coatings like epoxy and polyurethane are amazing protection.

[@donalda777]

I know this is and old video, and apologies if this was mentioned in the comments, but all finishes should be properly cured before testing. You may have had different results. BUT…I love all the energy you put into this! Amazing.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey Donald! No worries at all! If I’m remembering correctly I let them cure per the manufacturer’s specs but I’ve heard anecdotally some should go longer. I’m glad you appreciated the video! Have a great one and happy Woodworking! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@jeannehickey7081]

Awesome, looking forward to seeing your next video! Thank you!

[@pippajoy]

Very useful video. Was always intrigued with refinishing and topping it off with epoxy!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! To your point, I’ve actually seen that fairly often. The one thing you want to make sure of is that the underlying finish isn’t glossy so the epoxy has something to grab onto.

[@krehbein]

For me Rubio is easy to apply and the results are really nice. It’s spendy, but I can do just one coat and it’s kind of hard to screw up. Peace of mind has a price. 😎

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

No kidding! I’ve started to appreciate that as well. There is something to be said for the simplicity

[@umeshsanghvi224]

It forms a molecular bond with the wood fibre. Which means if it gets scratch and you apply another coat or even sand a patch in the middle of a table... only the exposed wood fires will catch polish and there will be no overlap / Lap / dark lines. For natural finishes it is certainly the easiest, most durable, easy to maintain and really Matt. I make laser cut wood sculptures from veneer or mdf and need huge amounts of intricate surface areas polished. This isn't just easy, but it is so Matt that we sometimes are confused if it's even polished. I recommend everyone try this.

[@treggmichelleliebler399]

I agree, and even more importantly than ease of application, is the ease in which any damage can be fixed by just repairing the area that needs it and only reapply in that small area. With the others you have to sand entire top down and reapply all of it.

[@Delheoblanc]

thank you very much for doing this test!! you helped us a lot! bless people who do experiments and record their results like this

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad I could help! Good luck with your project! 😄

[@andreankusnetsov7264]

Great video, lots of engenuity and plenty of useful information. Im planning to do a large kitchen island with a butcher block countertop so its just what I was looking for. Couple things, for the Rubio Monocoat did you do 1 or 2 coats? It's advertised that 1 coat is all you need but saw some videos of people doing 2 coats and having considerably better results, would be very interesting to compare doing the 2 coats of Rubio Monocoat and doing that ceramic topping. Thanks for the video.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey Andrean! Thanks for the compliment and that sounds like an awesome project! I have heard of two coats for Rubio with a coating as well but tried to stick with the manufacturer directions to be consistent. Perhaps in the future I'll pull that one in as well! Good luck on that project! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@treggmichelleliebler399]

The epoxy is also, by far, the most difficult to apply correctly. It WILL show ANY AND ALL hairs, bugs, dust particals that happen to land in it when drying. Unless you go through a meticulous process of sanding and polishing to remove them. Most epoxies off gas VOC's while drying as well, unless they advertise otherwise. PPE is a must while applying. I've recently tried Rubio and was extremely impressed with it. Also tested a glass of ice water with a puddle of water around the glass for 4 hours and no ring or mark of any kind!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That’s another great point, epoxy is absolutely a pain in the butt to apply. I as well am moving more to favor Rubio because of its easy application, easy repair, and more natural look.

[@carolehicks5285]

I love Rubio as well, but for a pine coffee table for daily use (feet maybe), I'm going with the poly...water-based semi gloss.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Polycrylic works great on a ton of things! Good luck on your coffee table!

[@glacialimpala]

Would you say it is good for oak floors too or is that more of a Rubio job? I remember 40 years ago polyurethane-painted floors would go orange so fast, I assume the modern tech is not like that at all.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! Modern poly still yellows but I’m not sure it’s as bad as the old stuff. Poly still seems like the standard floor protectant for hardwood floors.

[@ChalfantMT]

Great video! Answers so many practical questions! Thanks 🙏

[@ChalfantMT]

Earned a Subscribe!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks Matthew! Glad you found it helpful! And welcome to the community!

[@jscook54]

Interesting test. I am planning on helping daughter refinish her kitchen table to protect from 18 month old child. One consideration for me is if there is a spot that needs repair in the future I think Rubio or any hard wax finish can be repaired by sanding that one spot and refinished-- I think. 😊.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! I think you’re right, refinishing or touching up hard waxes or lacquers, is probably the easiest. I also recognize that this test was truly the worst of the worst by leaving everything on for an hour when in reality, it’d likely be wiped up immediately. Good luck on the refinish!

[@r.p.m.8987]

I saw there already a question regarding how long you let each material harden BUT I would like some clarification please. Epoxy and Lacquer may harden in 24 hours but they don't fully cure for several days. Did you give the lacquer several days to cure before stress testing it, or just the 24 hours? I really thought the Lacquer would stand up better than your excellent test video showed. Thanks for doing this!!!!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great questions! It's been a while since I did the test but I followed the manufacturers directions for each of them. I'm sure there is a balance between the manufacturer trying to hit the "leading edge" of when the finish is ready but I thought it was the only fair way to test them. If I do it again, I'll likely wait a week or two from application to test to make sure there's not questions about the curing.

[@calebfink3542]

Really Informative! I will say I'm leaning towards the Rubio at this point. I have had to refinish an epoxy table before, and while it might not need refinishing often if ever it is a huge pain! Rubio seems easier to refinish. Even if it needs to be redone every 1-2 years it seems quicker and easier

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Totally agree, if you're planning to refinish the table, Rubio seems like the easiest and most approachable finish.

[@phxbofh]

Thanks for sharing this! Been thinking about poly vs rubio for a coffee table. Cat claws act like knifes, so this has been very helpful for me.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

No kidding Matt! We have a cat as well and his claws are razor sharp sometimes. Not to mention, training him to stay off the table doesn’t seem to work 🤔 the one advantage I’ve heard for Rubio is that it’s far easier to repair so if the cat does scratch it, it can be fixed quickly.

[@paco5272]

excellent video...very helpful and informative...i learned alot ..keep up the good work

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Really appreciate your feedback

[@sswave4dave]

Wow. Thank you so much for this video. It answered my questions and was enjoyable to watch.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Awesome! 😄 so glad to hear it and am glad you found it enjoyable!

[@heidigraham2532]

Thank you for such a thorough test!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad I could help!

[@carterscustomrods]

Should've tried out a thinned epoxy matte finish. That's traditionally my go-to if durability is required. (It's really great for things like workbench, or router/drill press tables. Also, while I despise the stuff, it is awesome with MDF.)

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Interesting! What do you thin the epoxy with?

[@carterscustomrods]

@@NorthwestCraftsman I always used Denatured alcohol. (It's also good at cleaning off epoxy before it's cured. ) However, every epoxy is different with the ratio epoxy. Do youll want to do a lot of testing first. But you shouldn't need to thin it if it's a good, slow curing epoxy. I have used epoxy for decades in things and see almost every woodworker making the same mistakes. The biggest mistake I see is their mixing processes. They mix fast, and just plan on getting the bubbles out after with heat... But that doesn't fully work on micro-bubbles. And micro-bubbles lead to cracks over time, or with temp changes/impacts. (Especially if pouring it more than ¼" deep.) So if you want the perfect finish, or a great simple finish, just mix your epoxy slowly by hand using a small rounded device (like a ¼" dowel. Stainless Steel or glass rods are best, but troublesome and costly. Now they make silicone rods with steel insides, and theyll last forever.) [[[[ Make sure you stir in the same motion keeping your stirrer in contact with the bottom of the cup you are mixing in. This will help prevent bubbles from forming. A good epoxy should give you 45minutes of true work time so you should be able mix for 3 to 5 minutes and get perfect results. ]]]] To start off with a test... 1- You'll want to get a soft silicone bowl scraper (less than $10 and eternal.) 2- Use some scrap wood as a test piece. Now mIx a small amount of epoxy (2oz total is more than enough. If using 1:1 epoxy, this will be great training ) and do a super thin coat by working the epoxy into the wood. It should start to impregnate the wood and slowly but surely absorb into your test piece. When finished it should almost appear like it's water thats absorbed into the wood. It will be duller than a thick coat of epoxy bit offer a lot of the great qualities of epoxy. So try out different techniques. Epoxy is a a tougher medium than it gets credit for. But most epoxy users in woodworking seemed to have learned from wood turners that use it to stabilize pieces.And that's fine if you can fit your entire piece in a vacuum chamber. Lol. So experiment with a bowl scraper. If your wood is dense like a hard maple or cherry, you might want to thin it with the denatured alcohol. But it can have varying results. It can speed up or slow down work/cure times, or make it cloudy. It really depends on the epoxy brand itself. But if you can find a really good epoxy, it will not need thinning because it should be water-like once it is mixed. But try the squeegee system out first. Just be gentle with the epoxy. Because while heat may assist it, any heat that's not natural will alter the epoxy in some way. So not needing to add heat is the best way to use epoxy... and that only requires you mix it properly. 😃

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks for the detailed walkthrough! I agree, epoxy seems to be much tougher than people give it credit for. Look forward to trying for of this! Thanks again! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@JustSayN2O]

9:00 I am guessing that the extremely small scoring in the epoxy from the keys and knife tests can be buffed out with automobile polishing compound and an orbital buffer.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great observation and more than likely based on what I’ve seen.

[@mountdoomee]

​@NorthwestCraftsman also depends how long the epoxy had cured for before testing. Much stronger after 30 days

[@argus5323]

Nice video! Best comparison I've found

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m so glad you found it useful!

[@83cat]

Fine work, Good editing, Informative without much nonsenses, Subscribed

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Glad to have you around! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@peterg902]

Great video - seems the poly and epoxy are the winners. Perhaps, if you ever do this kind of stress test again, the Rubio Monocoat is often paired with Black Forest Ceramics topping - which prevents damage from most things. Also, hot plate and ice cold glass testing could be added to your tests; and if you really want to go crazy, try using walnut (or darken the wood with dark stain) and top with the finishes you have used. This will expose damage you cannot see - or that is often masked on light wood. Many youtubers speak about sanding and finishing on light wood, too afraid to expose the errors that can be readily seen on darker ones. Nice job.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks Peter! Great feedback all around! From a raw durability standpoint, I agree, poly and epoxy were the winners but some great points have been raised by others that repairability may also need to be considered. For example, lacquer is wildly easy to reapply and Rubio can be spot fixed with hardly any effort. With regards to the Rubio as well, I’ll have to check out that additional ceramic coating! I agree on the hot/cold test. My “hot wet paper plate” test fell flat and I need a better test or pair of tests for that. I really like your idea of doing the same test in a darker wood to expose some of those other hidden issues that I may be inadvertently causing, or that the stressors are causing. Again, all great feedback! Thanks for the suggestions! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@glacialimpala]

Is Black Forest Ceramic suitable for flooring, as in surely there is a difference when it has to be under large loads, compared to application on furniture? I was hoping the only down sides are cost and glossy finish, I was aiming for durable matte floors...

[@MrThenry1988]

Watco, my kitchentable has had it on for a year now. Cherryand walnut. Still looks good. I have used a little epoxy. Meh. Polyurethane? I spray it on and it works. Tough to redo for sure.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Is Watco just the wipe on oil finish? I wasn't sure if that was just a brand name or a specific variety?

[@jeannehickey7081]

Loved this video! Im doing oak stair treads. Even though you are doing a maple tabletop, its all relative! I know Rubios says only 1 coat, but I have heard 2 coats is better. I wonder if that would have changed your test any?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m glad you found it helpful! I have heard that as well but tried to test their claim as directed. I do think it would help though! Plus, looking back on my torture test, leaving wine or full strength bleach on for an hour is pretty harsh. And on top of that, I hadn’t considered repairability. Rubio and lacquer are the easiest to repair. Honestly, even with Rubio’s poor initial performance, it was the easiest to apply and looked the most natural. I’ve also heard it’s safer to wait a few weeks with Rubio, even with the accelerator.

[@АндрейКопылов-о7ь]

Привет, у нас в России наносим в два слоя, и тактильные ощущения лучше и защита древесины.👌

[@jeannehickey7081]

@@АндрейКопылов-о7ь Thank you, I only speak english so cannot read your comment

[@fernandoignacioloretdemola8380]

Great video and comparison! Do you think using a second coat of Rubio might help to protect the wood better? I have seen a lot of people lately recommending and using a second coat to help with protection and to give it an eggshell shine....

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That’s a great comment. I have actually heard the joke that Rubio Monocoat should really be Rubio Duocoat 😂 I’ve heard the second layer helps a lot and an additional protectant is a ceramic coat on top of that. I hope to give these variations a shot in a second run through of this test soon.

[@fernandoignacioloretdemola8380]

@@NorthwestCraftsman i have just recently started using a second coat of Rubio, on some projects and it truly makes a difference in the looks, giving the wood a very subtle sheen, but very even....I am truly curious if it will enhance protection too....looking forward to seeing your next tests!

[@Kemxt]

Just a heads up on epoxy, all epoxies yellow with age. Depending on use case this could effect the look more dramatically.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That is a great comment! The table I ended up using the epoxy on is an indoor table away from windows so I figured it was okay but you're totally right. I caution customers away from epoxy if there is much UV exposure.

[@mountdoomee]

For best results put the poly on top of the epoxy

[@ShawwwHa]

Repairability of the finish would be a nice addition to this great video.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Totally agree and thank you! That’s a dimension I neglected here.

[@MarkWilson-en9mu]

So nifty to see a well-designed, objective experiment! Thank you.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad you found it helpful! I’ll take those compliments any day! 😄

[@jessejordan310]

Always been a big fan of Rubio Monocoat.. I have a question though what happens if you hit the scratches on the epoxy sample with a blow torch after the fact.. do they go away? Might be a interesting extra test...

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Not sure! During the pour, the torch is used to reduce the surface tension which pops the bubbles. After the fact, we’d be relying on remelting the epoxy which I’m unsure how it’d handle 🤔 worth a test at some point! Total boat says you can sand it at 150 and re-pour to cover surface defects. That seems like the near nuclear option though. 🤔

[@jessejordan310]

@@NorthwestCraftsman it works with acrylic so I wondered if on light scratches it might have the same effect.. dont have any epoxy to test it with.. keep up the good work though love your stuff!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

@@jessejordan310 Thanks Jesse! I really appreciate that! I'll have to give that a shot one of these days! I didn't know that.

[@kararobey1770]

Did you ever do a comparison test between oil based and water based polyurethane? If so do you have the link? I hear oil based yellows over time.???

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey Kara! Great question! I haven't done the torture test between the two but do have the samples prepped and can send you a photo of the color difference between the two! If you shoot me an email (on the "About" tab of the channel), I can send you the photo.

[@3BoardChicks]

Loved this video! Gained a new sub. Question: do you think the brand of epoxy matters with the test? When I clicked on your Rubio link it went to a router guide.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad you appreciated it and welcome to the community! Brand will absolutely matter and I’ve learned that after the fact. An issue I’ve found specifically centers around the heat deflection temperature. In the eventual table, the heat deflection temperature of the epoxy was too low so when a hot coffee cup is put on it, you get a small dented ring. I’m not able to go back and edit the video as it sits on KZbin, but it’s good to keep in mind. And thank you! Here is the link to the Rubio, I will get that fixed in the description. Really appreciate you calling that out. Rubio amzn.to/4177Lsj

[@3BoardChicks]

Thank you and I’ve added it to my cart! ❤️

[@CalicoWoodworking]

Very good comparison. I have to admit though although it's not that durable, I like the look of Lacquer the best.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Totally understand the feeling. Not to mention it’s so easy to apply.

[@ripntearslayer9101]

Whenever I do epoxy, the piece is almost inevitably in a sunny area, that alone I suggest them to have me do a polyurethane topcoat to protect the epoxy. Best of both worlds, the strength of epoxy and the resistance of urethane

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That’s an interesting idea! You’re right though, sun seems to be the mortal enemy of epoxy. I’m going to be interested in how all of these epoxy tables age.

[@wilsmith2907]

Great video. It helped me solidify what product I would use for my chess boards etc., however, I would have loved to see Polycrylic added to the test (a water vs oil thing, yellowing vs non-yellowing thing) to compare that to the others. But again, great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I appreciate the compliment! I have a series of other tests I want to do and polycrylic is in that list!

[@norimizuno-sz5um]

Thank you for very useful tests. I just finished a white maple table top with two coats of Rubio monocoat (pure) and it looks beautiful but wonder whether I can put a mug with hot coffee without leaving a ring mark. Do you have advice for me?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful. I do apologize that that portion of my test was a failure 😂 it’s one of the more common stressors. Do you have any off cuts from that table? If so, I’d quickly finish one up with the same process used on the table and give it a shot. Shouldn’t take long given rubio’s process and would give you certainty with your wood specifically.

[@goldwingerppg5953]

Thanks! This was exactly what I was looking for. Did you use alcohol to remove the Sharpie? I found alcohol removes Sharpie marks very effectively. FYI-I epoxied a wet bar and was going to finish it with polyurethane.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad I could help! Yes, I used rubbing alcohol on a cotton swab to try and remove it and epoxy was the only finish that I was able to remove the sharpie from. Interesting! Why would you want to polyurethane over the epoxy?

[@goldwingerppg5953]

@@NorthwestCraftsmanI saw a couple videos the people used polyurethane as a final layer because it resists scratches better. I questioned whether it was better and from your video you proved it. I also figured if it ever got bad scratches it would be easier and cheaper to sand with 220 or 300 sandpaper and reapply polyurethane.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Makes sense. My biggest concern with poly is the discoloration that happens over time. I had these samples in a dark closet (no UV) for the past 6 months and the poly still turned and ugly shade of yellow that in my opinion only really looks good on pine. I’ve started to avoid poly for this reason. I’ve also heard that even if you don’t refinish epoxy, you can polish it to take out the scratches. Just some food for though 😊

[@goldwingerppg5953]

@@NorthwestCraftsman That’s good to know about it turning yellow, maybe I’ won’t use it. The concern I have with epoxy is sanding and polishing in tight spots, which I have. Hopefully, the epoxy 1:1 D-85 will hold up.

[@stevesiefken6432]

Awesome review of these finishes! 👍🏻 Best I’ve seen with regards to the testing you did. I see the poly you used was oil based, right? Any thoughts about how durable the water based poly is vs oil based poly? Thanks!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! It was the oil based poly I used. I was hitting myself after the fact for not testing water based at the same time but I have a sample of it made and am planning to test it soon! I’ll let you know when I find out.

[@stevesiefken6432]

@@NorthwestCraftsman I would appreciate it! My wife gets a headache from the smell of oil based poly or lacquer for that matter. She has no problem with the water based poly, so that’s what I end up using most often. Thanks!

[@gary24752]

Water based poly is not durable at all.

[@ackmartin60]

You can't have used a good one then. I use General Finishes Enduro poly and it meets KMA standard and is very durable. Lately I have used there 2K poly and it is extremely durable. I would love to see a test of vs epoxy, regular poly, lacquer etc. @@gary24752

[@timelessroyalestudio]

Nice job mate Just one more question Have you tried hot food pan or something like that

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! And that is an excellent question. I did not because pretty much every finish will fail under direct heat like that. However, one I needed to try was a hot bowl, plate, or cup. I learned after making my most recent table that even though epoxy is the most durable in these tests (which I thought was fairly complete) it has a heat deflection temperature of 135° which means my client, who put a hot cup of coffee on it, now has a small slightly melted ring in the table 😑 not the end of the world, but Epoxy does not play nice with hot stuff.

[@timelessroyalestudio]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Yeah good point How tiny one can go with epoxy Like to fill grain or gaps and then if possible a level of rubio or oil finish is that possible with epoxy or has to be Mr. Plastic finish

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! I actually have a video coming out this weekend on lessons learned while doing my conference room table. One of the lessons what’s that at least with this type of epoxy, you can’t have more than a hairline gap. If it’s sealed around the bottom and edges, it will fill up no problem, but a through crack is a no go. I recommend wood filler that matches so it can at least take some of whatever finish you’re applying.

[@michaelg.117]

Amazing video. Very well done and very useful info. Thanks! The Polyurethane you used is oil based. Would it be OK to apply it as extra layers on top of existing water based Polyurethane that my live edge slab has now?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m glad you found it helpful 😄 I haven’t tried it directly so caveat emptor, but from what I’m seeing, you should be able to if you properly sand the water based poly (220 is what I’m seeing). The safest option would be to sand it back to the wood and go from there. But, worst case scenario, the oil based over water based doesn’t work and you have to sand it back anyways.

[@bwellcare]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Thanks for the prompt reply and info! I assumed the Polyurethane you used during the test was oil based since that's what you listed under "Products Used" with a link to Amazon. I wanted to use the exact same Polyurethane you used as I was impressed with the outcomes. It held up extremely well. Once again - thanks for making such a great/useful video and for this feedback!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Not a problem! Glad I could help! 😄

[@jeannehickey7081]

If using Rubio Monocoat and wanting to do a 2nd coat, , I wonder how soon or long to wait, to add the 2nd coat? I did learn alot from your test, and am very grateful you did it. Also you were pretty clear in your discussion which many times ppl are not. Just curious but have you ever bleached wood, then stained and finished it? I have heard that the red in red oak can come back to the surface in time, after bleaching and finishing. Thanks!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! 😊 For two coats of Rubio, I’m seeing about a day between coats from some initial research. And I haven’t ever bleached wood, sounds like an interesting process. I’ll have to look into it.

[@ZomBeatBrainZ]

Rubio has a maintenance coating that works really well as a second coat after initial finish.

[@martingo2680]

After watching a ton of videos, One thing I've learned is that the more natural and nice looking you want a finish.. The more you sacrifice on durability And protection.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Spot on what I’ve learned as well

[@asderven]

Hi, thanks for the great video. In future if possible, would you add a hot mug of tea/coffee and a hot food plate (can just put boiling water on the plate). Those are the two most common uses people here use the table for. If you know, would polyurethane hold up to heat?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

You’re spot on with the future change I want to make! A huge fault of the epoxy that I found after building the table is that it has a heat deflection temperature of 135°F which means a hot cup of coffee will “dent” it. Stone Coat Epoxy’s are supposed to have a deflection temp upwards of 400°F so I’m going to try them soon. Regarding your question on Poly, it should hold up to regular food and drink heat. Nothing in our realm as woodworkers is good with hot pans or tea kettles but on plates and in cups, it should be fine. Caveat, I haven’t directly tested, this is just based off of what I’ve seen. Side note, make sure your wood under the poly is okay yellowing. The poly turns a pretty amber yellow over time which on the maple samples I tested here, looks pretty ugly now. Glad you enjoyed the video though! Thanks for jumping in.

[@asderven]

@@NorthwestCraftsman would be great to see an update with the new tests. Thank you for the information on poly. I will try it out and see. I made a computer desk for myself out of yellow pine (learning woodworking, cheapest wood here). Almost finished the joinery stage. Have glue up and finish left, will definitely test out finishes and see. I do eat at my computer desk, but I usually have a glass tray for the plate and coasters for mugs. But everyone in the house is not as careful, that is why thinking of what kind of finishes that are easily accessible, look decent and can take heat. We don't put kettles and pots, but food is still hot. Also I am not sure how epoxy will hold out when ambient temperature in summer is about 115°F~120°F.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey I totally get that! My primary working material is actually pine because of its price and accessibility. If you're using pine, polyurethane would actually be a really great option. The yellow nature of pine makes it perfect for the "ambering" you get with poly. I just pulled the data sheet for the poly I use and it's dry heat resistance is 100C which should be ample for any normal wear and tear. If you can find a local polyurethane, I bet you'd be golden and save yourself some cash. Data Sheet www.rustoleum.ca/-/media/8BDDC5B1AD244419AD6B91187E06B3CF.ashx

[@asderven]

@@NorthwestCraftsman thank you, that is very helpful. I will figure out if local polyurethane companies provide any data sheet for their products. Most just magically appear on shelves 🤭

[@bingobunga8995]

It would be more helpful to have all the coatings at the same mil thickness. I can clearly see some of the coatings are thicker than others especially the poly and epoxy. I think it would be a more fair assessment if these systems were all tested at the same mil thickness. There’s mil gauges you can get to check this. Lacquer is very hard but it’s not water based so it evaporates off 80% of the wet mil thickness compared to 50% of water base so right off the bat the water based coatings are gonna be 30% thicker more or less unless you added more coats to your solvent based stuff to get the same mils. Also what brands of these products were you using because lacquers and the other coating systems have different % of solids that vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer. One part systems will obviously be less resilient than 2 part systems aka pre catalyzed. Epoxy is typically a 2 part system while none of the other systems you compared it to were 2 part. It would be more fair to compare a 2 part poly, epoxy and lacquer side by side at the same mil thickness and appropriate cure time to get more comprehensive results.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That's an interesting idea! Does it make a difference how thick the coating is if none of the tests penetrate through to the wood? As for the test, I tried to follow the directions of each finish as directed by the manufacturer to standardize the test more but I understand there are some third party modifications that may enhance the different film's performance.

[@bingobunga8995]

@@NorthwestCraftsman the mil thickness of the coat is important for your impact tests such as the keys marring the surface. But also the percentage of solids by volume will dictate the hardness and thickness of the coat as well. Lacquers come anywhere between 15-40% solids depending on brand and whether or not it’s a precat. Usually 20-24% is the average so that means how much is left after the solvents evaporate. Polys and epoxies come higher % solid by volume typically. That’s very important for understanding how much material you will need to coat a surface and in calculating materials for projects. You could also try using a Vaughn viscosity cup along side a wet mil gauge to compare viscosity and thickness of every coat system. I did enjoy this video and the comparison. And at the end of the day I’m a professional painter who wants to learn and share knowledge with others. Figuring out the best bang for the buck is what keeps me alive and I appreciate the fact that this is how you based your tests on manufacturers application recommendations and the evaluation of price. Hands down I’m going for lacquer when it comes to wood every time because it is more cost efficient than a comparable poly as I find most polys do not hold up unless they are a premium 1k or 2k poly such as Renner, Malesi, Centurion, etc and when you start entering into those costing systems you realize how expensive they are you’ll understand why I still go for lacquer. $120 per gallon on top of expensive catalyst if it’s a 2 part for both primer and top coat is gonna turn a lot of customers off to my services. Also it would be interesting to see the comparison of these products to a varnish product as well.

[@levthelion]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Yes, most finishes are harder than the wood they protect. At least everything I've used. Thickness is a big factor.

[@JustSayN2O]

One additional solvent that I would have liked to have seen you tested is acetone in both its concentrated form and the dilute nail polish remover form.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That’s a phenomenal idea. I’ll add that to the second round test I’m planning.

[@JustSayN2O]

I just thought of something else for the second round test. Cam Anderson of Blacktail Studio sells "N3Nano Kit". I've never tried it.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

@@JustSayN2O funny you mention that! I have N3 on my list of finishes to test!

[@aliposhtpazan2625]

God bless you and many thanks for your test video. Actually I don't know how to thank but many many thanks

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Positive comments like this are all I need! So glad you found it helpful!

[@plainwlkr8]

I have to ask if you prepped the wood coatings and let the coatings cure to manufacturer's specifications. Rubio takes a full week to cure correctly for example.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! I followed all of the manufacturer's guidelines for both application and cure times.

[@Francois8011]

Very interesting comparison!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I'm glad you found it as interesting as I did! I'm prepping a second round for sometime this year and I'm excited to see how that followup comes out.

[@stevenJEDI3]

Fantastic demonstration

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m glad you found it helpful!

[@0dtp1]

How long did you let these finishes cure? Rubio can take 5 days to a full month depending on whether or not you used the accelerator and laquer can take weeks to cure. Something to consider.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great points! Everything cured for a week and I did use the accelerator on the Rubio. I think the hardest part of the test was how long I left things on. I don’t think most people are going to leave wine on their table for an hour. The other consideration some have brought up is repairability. Epoxy and Poly are much harder to repair, while Rubio and lacquer may be the easiest.

[@0dtp1]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Guess that depends on how much wine they had before they spilled it 🙂 I have been using Monocoat and I think it is going to be my go-to finish. So easy to apply and looks and feels gorgeous. Pure looks amazing on cherry!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Ha! Great one 😂 you’re not wrong in that. And I do think Rubio was the most natural of the finishes and agree, it was by far the easiest to apply. I may go back and run some tests on the back of the samples I made to see how a few months of cure time improves resilience.

[@daver7013]

Terrific test. Thanks

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks Dave! I’m so glad you found it helpful!

[@JakePlisskin12]

If you want to remove sharpi from a most surfaces then draw back over it with sharpy and whip it off with water or mineral spirits. Many differant ways skin a water bufflo.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Huh! Never heard of that! Thanks for the tip!

[@stevenolivero5207]

with polyurethane am i right in saying the more sheen the paint has he harder it is , reason why i ask this is im told by a paint supplyer that Polyurethane is more duabel than epoxy paint for kitchen cabinets allso 2k polyurethane has good resistances with hot objects like hot cups so on .any feed back would be brilliant as im hoping to paint my kitchen in 2k Polyurethane or epoxy.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey there! Sorry for the delay. Unfortunately it really depends on which brand you’re going to use. When you say paint your kitchen, are you looking for counter tops, cabinets, or walls? Or a combination?

[@ianmist2]

Thankyou very much for sharing this very interesting testing. Another very important factor is how hard is it to repair after the surface is damaged. No surfaces last forever. I've had some bad experiences with polyurethane on soft plywood getting sun damage. removing it without taking off a layer of ply was challenging. Do you find that the other coatings are easier to touch up when they do get damaged. Ps -- please drop the overloud and incredibly annoying music. Stumpy Nubbs went thru various ways of adding entertainment and eventually found the information was the interesting stuff.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey Ian! Thanks for the comment! I totally agree and have actually moved toward Rubio for exactly that reason. And thanks as well for the feedback on the music. I’ve gone back and forth but appreciate it when I hear from someone on the other end.

[@mountdoomee]

If you have epoxy on the soft plywood it will better seal it and reduce the expansion and contraction, which is likely your problem with the poly. If you did poly as a top coat and epoxy as a base coat you'll get best of both worlds; epoxy for strength and sealing, and the poly for UV and scratch protection.

[@angelapetrouis6414]

Superb experiment Do you know which Finnish has the best heat resistance?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

And that is a superb question! Unfortunately I don’t have a perfect answer. What I do know is the following: Many epoxies struggle with heat. In fact the one I ended up using (Super Clear) has a heat deflection temp of 130°F which isn’t high enough for most hot dishes and coffee cups (major issue for me). There are other epoxies (Stone coat & some total boat recipes) which has a much higher HDT in the order of 100’s of degrees. Polyurethane is a very robust. It’s been used in restaurant tables for a long time. Don’t have the max usable temperature in front of me now but it’s very robust. Rubio should be pretty robust but I can’t find any data on it. Lacquer is also a common table finish and should be fine with raw heat, but hot and wet (which my test failed to adequately simulate) is a weakness. As with most wood finishes and furniture, you shouldn’t have anything hotter than a food hot dish. Hot pots and pans need a buffer between them. Sorry I don’t have a more concrete answer but hopefully that helps 😊

[@angelapetrouis6414]

Thank you 🙏🏽 I think if restaurants favour polyurethane, then you've answered my question perfectly. 👍🏽

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Perfect! Yes, the restaurant business has been using poly for a long time. It’s cheap and hard. Do note it will yellow quite a bit with time so using it on woods that are complimented by that would be recommended.

[@blackopal3138]

Great video. Wish I could give you 100 likes, cz it's so useful. ........ Personally, I love the look of the epoxy, and imho it is the right finish for a boardroom. Based solely on looks I mean, it is the correct esthetic for a boardroom, but it is the best performer too. Not plastic, Glass! Should look like glass. ..... One thought I had, it's not just cutlery; in a boardroom and at home, there are binders, suit buttons, cufflinks, toys. The only questions I really had kind of related to that. i.e. How long did you cure them for? Would a couple weeks make a difference for something like a lacquer? I know some clear coats are still hardening for at least that long. .. which leads to: polishing after time, and what to use, dust collection. Maybe bigger maintenance a sanding every few years - good for some, can't with others. And toxicity/VOC. And your most important test was a dud! lol, no, but, it remains that can happen, and this test didn't tell us why, or what finish melts under the heat of a dinner plate! I'd like to know how it happened. Peace

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! And great questions. I let these cure for about a week if I remember correctly. I’d need to go back and double check. Full cure time on most finishes is a week. And I know 😂 I needed to find a better way to do that test because that’s the one I run into the most. Not of the finishes are good for a hot pan directly on them but hot, not paper, plates should all be fine. From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly moisture that’s the issue.

[@jerryvanderwier2310]

What about repairs? All of these coatings get damaged - especially from renters or short term visitors. Acknowleging these surfaces will get damaged, how much work is required to repair? How good does repairs look across each of these? Poly is pretty difficult to blend repairs. I've had significant damage to poly and laquer finishes from water sitting on it for hours and I am unhappy with all repair attemps. I am to understand that this is the strength of Rubio Monocoat, but don't have the experience to judge. Note that I am more focused on flooring, but not exclusively. My two biggest enemies is the furniture legs scraping along the floor and liquid stains from spills. I don't own any furniture anymore that doesn't have damage from small spills - especially from water (e.g. glass/cup rings, whitish spots, damaged and warped wood).

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

This is absolutely something I should have included. Repairability is an important consideration for the life of a finish and your understanding is correct. Rubio is one of the easiest to sand out and reapply without any issue at all. I’m preferentially choosing Rubio for most of my finishing now.

[@mountdoomee]

How long did these cure before you performed these tests? The epoxy and poly will both be way stronger after 30 days

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I followed the manufacturer instructions for each finish to keep it fair between finishes.

[@aaronf7175]

I’m really curious how ;long you let the Rubio monocoat sit before testing it. Or maybe you used the 2c hardener?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! I was using the 2C Hardner and in an effort to equalize the playing field amongst all the finishes, I followed the manufacturers’ recommendations to a tee. For the Rubio monocoat, they recommend 24 to 36 hours before use and I gave it 24

[@RovexHD]

Is the yellowing effect an issue if you’re using a darker wood like walnut ?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Awesome question! It’s less of an issue but is still present. I have some coasters I finished early on in woodworking and you can see the yellowing on the walnut. It’s not severe but definitely still there.

[@leonardodalongisland]

Did I miss the boiling test-or did you not include it? I want to know if I can use Epoxy0on wood to make a hot plate.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Hey! Thanks for being patient, the boil test was a flop, that was the “hot wet fabric” which cooled off too quickly to adequately test that condition. Double check with the epoxy brand you’re using but most of the ones I’ve seen are only safe to about 135°F

[@leonardodalongisland]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Thanks for replying. I did search and came up with the same results.

[@roropepe1848]

what about if you compare epoxy, lacquer and polyurethane if the film is the same thickness?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! Unfortunately, every finish is unique in what thickness physically works for it. All lacquers and polyurethanes have a wet & dry film maximum thickness allowable which almost always far less than that of epoxy. For this test I followed the manufacturer’s instructions since the thickness they recommend should provide the most optimal performance for that particular film.

[@jakelots]

Thats odd, I have used catalyzed lacquer for many many years in cabinetry and furniture and being soft by any means is not a characteristic I would give it. Try Sherwin William pre-cat lacquer, it's extremely durable. Absolutely more so than Poly. The stain and water resilience is why we chose it for cabinetry and furniture, 40+ year old cabinets over a stove top still look amazing with little maintenance

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Fascinating! What’s humorous is that I used Sherwin Pre-Cat (hi-build medium rubbed if I’m remembering correctly). Perhaps I didn’t let it cure long enough? I do agree with you though, I LOVE how easy the lacquer is to apply and the speed of application. If I did something wrong, I’d love to know 😂

[@jakelots]

@@NorthwestCraftsman I appreciate the reply! My process anyways is sanding sealer as a base always, it's so nice to sand and saves the amount of time spraying several coats on oak for instance. Then start with lacquer, mixed very very well since it also has pore filling properties (at least what I get). I apply 2-3 coats usually every 45 minutes to an hour sanding in between. Another reason I love lacquer is it sands very nicely compared to Poly that I feel is not appreciated enough among DIY woodworkers. And that's basically it we would assemble the components within a few hours. I took a look at my coffee table that sees reqular abuse of sliding glasses, cans, etc and see little to no damage, which is great considering the amount of spilled beverages it has endured lol.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Absolutely! It’s guys like you that help me learn more! Thanks for the constructive feedback. I’ll have to give some more time to the lacquer using your technique and see how it holds up. I’d love to use lacquer if I can for exactly the reason’s you’ve described.

[@jakelots]

@@NorthwestCraftsman likewise! Thank you for taking the time and creating a very well thought out testing procedure. Keep it up!

[@BrittanyN-c4s]

Anyone try some wipe on poly over Rubio for added protection?

[@carolehicks5285]

This was great!!!

[@ZomBeatBrainZ]

Acetone or goof off removes sharpie as well

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Good to know! I’d need to check the compatibility of the finishes with both of those to make sure it wouldn’t harm the finish as well.

[@MarkThomas123]

The Lacquer really surprised me.. Figured it would fail miserably even with the water. It's a little better than Shelac.. Epoxy Semi Gloss would not have performed as well in the stain tests. Check into MCU=Moisture Cured Urethanes and UV Cured Poly's. More expensive, but, the tests would have been hands down winner in every category.. Even harsh chemicals like Acetone.. .Yep.. Ha..Ha.. Industrial Coatings.. Save these guys for the money projects. UV Cured are probably in the $400/gallon range, but, that is only going off of one price I saw at $500/gallon, but, a quick google search turned up some manufacturers in China, so, I expect someone to have some cheaper versions.. Not yet in the woodworking industry, so, still pretty expensive. MCU has been out longer, so, still in the $250 or so per gallon, but, considering, it's not that bad.. I found it searching for a needle in a haystack (DTM=Direct to Metal Clear), which is pretty unusual, but, it works on wood, concrete, etc.. Good UV and Chemical Resistance too... Hope that helps..

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Good to know! Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure I'll have any projects that can justify that kind of cost but hey, it's good to have a tool in the back pocket.

[@carloslemos2144]

how many coats of poly and laquer did you apply?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! 3 on each

[@carloslemos2144]

@@NorthwestCraftsman that's awesome, so many people do this type of test with only one coat of product, you can't really trust your results if you don't apply it correctly. Thanks for making this.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Not a problem Carlos! I totally agree, I tried to follow the manufacturer directions because that's at least a good starting point. Happy Woodworking! Josh Northwest Craftsman

[@brandonhoffman4712]

Awesome video! Poly is my choice there. I have thoughts for a second comparison. Ive heard rubio monocoat reffered to as rubio dualcoat. I would like to see a test with 2 coats. Also for epoxy. Ive seen some beautiful cabinets that were sprayed in epoxy (with color), it would be cool to see if you could get it to look a bit more like poly. I know theres this stuff called reducer 54. It can thin epoxy, not sure if thats what they use?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m glad you liked it. I am planning a rerun of this test with a variety of new finishes and techniques! Will put these on the list! Thanks!

[@brandonhoffman4712]

@NorthwestCraftsman nice! You just earned a subscriber. Honestly, good work, man. I live off the quality of my work, and it's testing like this that allows me to cut corners without cutting corners. I vastly appreciate what your doing and it's among the best I've seen. I've basically come to the conclusion there are 3 options. Supreme durability, Supreme look and feel, or a balance. Epoxy offers extreme durability, rubio monocoat or osmo's similar offering give the Supreme look and feel, poly is a balance. I would love to see the lines blur between poly and epoxy on look & feel, I think spraying is the key. I'm currently investing in a sprayer for my woodwork. There are also other crazy things. I don't know the cost, but Graco makes a ployurea sprayer... which apparently sprays a hot substance that cools and hardens, sounds next level! Maybe it's this harder coating I'm seeing on some hardwood flooring? 🫡

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Man, that would be wild to see. I will say that after this test I tried spraying poly with an HVLP and got a much, much better finish. I think my poly 50/50 with lacquer thinner so it flows but I’ve had really good results with it. Harbor Freight sells a solid $15 or $25 HVLP gun. I’m glad you found this helpful! Honestly it was just me documenting it for myself as well 😂 I needed to do the test so why not video it. What kind of work do you do?

[@brandonhoffman4712]

@NorthwestCraftsman I've got a lot of stuff under my belt. I mostly specialize in tile/stone or hardwood surfaces. Floors, walls, showers, you name it. I'm starting a furniture business on the side. I can also do framing, drywall, paint, cabinetry, a bit of everything. I used to be contracted nationwide to do many different stores in malls across America. Apple, Microsoft, Gucci, Polo, Abercrombie, Ruhl, to name a few. My father is a top notch Mason, I learned his trade, dabbled in other stuff, fell in love with wood, and now keep his fire burning and mine! I'm finishing a wood staircase right now. That I planned and built vastly exceeding stair code tolerances while adjusting the elevation @ the bottom of the stairs to be where I wanted. I got all the cuts so tight in my steps you would struggle to find a spot a playing card would fit in. Enough to worry about expansion and contraction, but I used engineered hardwood, so it won't do that. I normally try not to pat myself on the back much, but I'm really happy on this one. Even my father is telling me I have surpassed his abilities, which kind of left me speechless...

[@brandonhoffman4712]

Ohh on the stairs I'm doing, it also has venetian style concrete tile risers. Sort of a Mexican tile kind of vibe, but clearly Mediterranean in style, and classed up a bit from a Mexican tile. Also the tiles are all white and grey, the wood is a warm weathered grey look. Honestly I've fallen in love with this wood color. Not dark, nor light. I want to call it grey, but also call it not grey... it's hard to color match, but beautiful. I did their entryway and laundry room in the same style tile to carry the look through. Then the hardwood throughout. Each bathroom has a unique vibe. House overlooks the ocean, gorgeous views. House was given to the homeowners free... Lucky dogs!

[@mixtecjaguar9824]

WOW! Very helpful.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

So glad you found it helpful! 😃

[@jakobjbbjerg]

how long did you let the finish harden before the stress test?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great question! And in short, it depends, I followed the manufacturer’s directions for each finish.

[@buzzpatch2294]

thanks- just what i needed

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Perfect! Glad I could help!

[@piratemakers]

one of the missing pieces in all this is how difficult it is to re-finish the board in case of fatal damage, like a big scratch from moving a heavy furniture. I guess Rubio would win this test ?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

You’re totally right! I did miss that analysis in this test. I would say either Rubio or Lacquer are the best bet when it comes to fixing damage. Both are super easy.

[@jwdory]

Great Video!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed it! 😄

[@BirdTrainingClub]

Great testing.. but you please add a big label to each of them if you are doing anything similar in future. It really helps especially when they are on the table side by side.. also more side by side table views.. for more visible comparison. Thank you for everything

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Great feedback! I’ll keep that in mind. Glad you found it helpful though.

[@BirdTrainingClub]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Yup helped me narrow it down to a polyurethane finish :)

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I will say, I’ve had even more luck with a spray poly finish. If you have an HVLP gun, I’ve mixed poly and lacquer thinner 50/50, with normal cure times, sanding between coats, and an extra coat or two turns out beautiful with no brush strokes at all. 👌

[@BirdTrainingClub]

@@NorthwestCraftsman thank you for the advice. Don’t have a hvlp sprayer.. but need to get one for the fence. Thinking of a rub on poly for this one (storage crate bench).

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Makes sense. I’d love to see how it turn out for you, if you want when you’re done, shoot me a photo to the email in our about page.

[@Brangustx]

The Rubio snobs can keep their 7 day cure time and I'll keep my Lacquer, which I can 3x coat and polish (or not) in one day and move on the next project.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

There certainly is a benefit to the speed and ease of lacquer. After seeing the two side by side, I can also understand why people like the more natural look of Rubio.

[@SumedhKadoo]

Great video, thank you.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful!

[@wildnrnr5502]

Great job

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks!

[@junietisdale1074]

How long was the liquid left on the wood? we're building a bar top with walnut wood i believe, it will be in the weather and sun. So we're really trying to pick the best coating possible, I had just watched something saying a deep pore marine epoxy would be best any recommendations for what to use if you have another option?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Liquid was left on for about an hour. Sharpie was left for about 24. Outdoor finishes are really tricky because the changes in temp and humidity will crack most film finishes. Most if not all epoxies aren’t rates for UV and will break down over time. From what I’m seeing, I don’t have direct experience here, a good marine varnish (epifanes seems to be a common name) is what you’d want to go for.

[@junietisdale1074]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Thank you so much. I had thought that spot was in tricky place but I think I'll be able to figure it out. Thanks for the help on my project it's 100% appreciated.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Not a problem! When you get out done, I’d love to see it! If you’re willing to share, my email is on the about page of the channel, or you can tag me on Instagram (@northwestcraftsman). Good luck!

[@junietisdale1074]

@@NorthwestCraftsman I'll definitely send you a pic when im finished. We're actually looking for another slab today after we found out the first one we got wasn't thick enough.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Awesome! Thank you tons! I’m about to go slab shopping as well for a conference room table build I have coming up. What part of the world are you in? In the PMW, we’re blessed with an abundance of beautiful wood.

[@kay6736]

Would love seeing a 2K poly in comparison. And a UV cured poly. In terms of mechanical properties, 1K < 2K < UV.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

When I have my new shop set up, I’d like to run a second round of testing and this is one that I’d like to include! Thanks for the feedback.

[@kay6736]

​@@NorthwestCraftsman Looking forward to that video. I don't know how extensive you want the tests to be, but I would love seeing Solarez ICBINL, Clear Armor, Hard Shellac (seems to only really be available in Australia or imported) as well. Would really help with figuring out the best finishes.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I’ll have to look into those! Honestly, there have been enough variations of finishes that each class almost deserves its own test. Poly’s, Lacquers, Epoxies, etc

[@kay6736]

​@@NorthwestCraftsman Very true. I've been spending absurd amounts of time digging into various finishes. Curiously enough, there is abundant room for tests like yours. I was honestly surprised that they're not readily available in 2024. Such a lack in fact, that you could probably launch a whole channel dedicated to just that and be successful.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I was thinking something similar! I’m currently building a new shop but one that’s up, I’ll likely be getting going on this. Thanks again for the feedback!

[@jeffreyjbyron]

Which was easiest or funnest to apply?

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Easiest was no finish 😂 Just kidding, Rubio was the easiest for sure and potentially the most fun. Epoxy was certainly the most involved, however, it was really cool to see the wood character pop once I had it on.

[@tahlularose9267]

Appreciated, thanks...

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Glad you found it helpful 😊

[@NateLuckey]

So what about a nano coat?

[@NateLuckey]

I’d love to see a update to see how a nano coat like Black Forest holds up.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

That’s a great suggestion! I’ll need to reach out to them and see if they’d provide a sample for a shootout.

[@BigJohnson1566]

Slick work👍🇺🇸

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Learned a ton!

[@flat---line]

All of these finishes give a bad looking finish besides rubio... Rubio is the best kooking finish i have seen yet. Especially with 2 coats and paired with ceramic coat. Probably as tuff as epoxy with half the effort of application.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I’m loving Rubio more and more and agree that it’s the most natural looking finish. I’m curious to see how a ceramic coat holds up.

[@ROACHRAGE2]

You left out one critical test! Heat! I have had pine and maple tables with polyurethane, and was dismayed at all the damage caused by knives going thru paper plates, kids roughhousing, even people slamming their glassware on the table! So I sanded my most recent maple table and gave it a couple coats of epoxy. We found out really quick that if you heat up something in the microwave and put it on the table it leaves a melted ring indentation! Even hot coffee will do this! That is not acceptable and has me rethinking my finishing on future projects! One other thing; I never put one coat of poly on anything; it's generally 2-3 coats, but it wasn't clear how many coats you used. Additionally, some people have been using water based poly but I have found it to be inferior in durability; I have built several computer desks and came to these conclusions; the first desk was birch laminate with 3 coats of polyurethane and was basically indestructible. I could put hot or cold, wet or dry on it and it stayed perfect. My second desk was oak laminated plywood and covered in three coats of water-based poly. I treated it the same as my first desk but the top started taking damage almost immediately, with stains and de-laminating. I was so disappointed I refinished it in epoxy, but I am very careful not to put anything hot on it. In short, I would like to see a face-off with water-based poly vs oil-based poly vs epoxy, with long term water and heat testing. And honestly maybe a few different brands of epoxy to see if there's a difference in heat resistance between brands! Thanks!

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

You’re looking ahead to a follow up test I’m doing! I saw exactly the same issues after the fact, with heat specifically. I found out that most epoxies have a heat deflection temperature of 135°F which means even hot coffee, as you noticed, will leave melted rings. I plan to test Stone Coat Epoxies which has a stated heat deflection temp of 400°F. I’ll be adding a boiling water test or similar in the follow up!

[@ROACHRAGE2]

@@NorthwestCraftsman I searched for this in Bard and found out total boat is good to 300 and permatex has a high-temp epoxy good to 500.

[@mountdoomee]

I use entropy epoxy by West system and I have put hot pots on it directly with no issues. It should be avoided, but there was no melting for me and a pot is much hotter than the coffee

[@jamesjakeway8294]

You are not taking into account the most important aspect. How easy is maintenance and repair? Rubio hands down beats all .

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

You’re totally right. I should have taken this into account and I agree. Rubio is certainly the easiest to maintain and I lean towards it for most finishing now.

[@danielhayes9274]

Excellent work. Too bad about the plastic effect.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks! Good learning all around.

[@ssab9063]

Epoxy will yellow over time. This is why I'd choose poly for most of my needs.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Very true! Poly yellows over time as well though. This maple sample has a nice honey like hue to it now even though during this test it was barely noticeable. I actually don't recommend poly to clients for any project other than pine at this point since the amber hue compliments the pine.

[@je-fq7ve]

epoxy can be sanded to a none plastic look

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Interesting! Does that obscure the wood underneath?

[@je-fq7ve]

not at all. It gives it a flat sheen.@@NorthwestCraftsman

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Fascinating! I'll have to try it sometime. Thanks for the tip.

[@robertgardner7470]

The loud music ruins this video.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm working to better balance the music.

[@jonathanthink5830]

looks like polyurethane is the winner ...... :-)

[@Curly_Maple]

Man, the loud music is obnoxious. I'm not trying to be a jerk - just hopefully giving helpful feedback.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Not a jerk at all! I appreciate the feedback

[@Curly_Maple]

@@NorthwestCraftsman - You're the man. 👍

[@Nistacular]

This has got to be the weakest lacquer I've ever seen. Lacquer is among the hardest wood finishes, much harder than hardwax oils would be expected to provide. My feeling is the lacquer was either: old/expired, very thinly applied, or simply some kind of lacquer varnish that is not what most people think of when aiming for a durable lacquer finish. I can't explain it - because I've used lacquer to much better success - maybe someone else can explain why it's so incredibly weak in this video.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

I appreciate the feedback. I’d love to have the lacquer finish better because it’s so much easier to apply than the others. I’ll be running another test at some point this year and will add another test to see if this was a fluke.

[@Nistacular]

@@NorthwestCraftsman Also, another possible explanation is that it wasn't full cured. To be fully cured, lacquer often takes a ridiculously long time, maybe a month or so. This will make it significantly harder.

[@NorthwestCraftsman]

Fascinating! I’ll keep that in mind for the next one. My goal on this one was to follow the mfr instructions to get the fairest comparison