Buying First Kitesurf Kites: don't make the mistakes I made

[@davidgeffeney1283]

Ebay was awesome for used gear. Got 2 kites and everything else...looking forward to learning.

[@erbartlett]

What kites did you get? Have you had lessons or someone to help pick out the equipment? I'm a big fan of used gear

[@anotherguy9402]

How it working out for you? I just got naish Helix 2010? Used with everything else required. One valve replacement and it holds air no problem but someone did repairs on it and put two bladders back in with a twist and I've untwisted one(strut) now I just gotta untwist the main bladder.

[@joshoverett]

Very good vid. I've been riding just since the start of 2021 and one point I'd add is that if you are over 90kgs or under 60 you should get 1 size bigger or smaller than the most popular quiver at your local spot. Assuming most people riding are 70 to 85kg of course. Also I bought all Evo's with the biggest being 13 and I almost regret it cause I think now in light wind you're best off getting a really big light wind kite like the Juice or Zephyr or just skipping the super light days. Not necessarily the best to buy all kites with the same exact model.

[@erbartlett]

Good guidance for how to adjust your kite sizing up or down based on weight. Also agreed on big kites, the more sessions you get the faster you progress. I actually had a 19M Core XR for a year or two at the beginning, then I progressed to a 17m, and eventually at 15m

[@przemysawmarciniec5180]

What do you mean by light wind? I can ride 12m evo in 12kt and have fun in 13kt - consider that light wind (i am 80kg). I don’t feel like I need a bigger kite. If I got like 15m juice what wind will I be able to ride?

[@georgewhitehouse8630]

The most important thing is the model?

[@GaetanoCrisci]

Good advices Evan! I would add Ozone Catalyst V3 and V4 are excellent beginner kites

[@kkkostadinov]

Great video! Thank you 🙏🏻

[@erbartlett]

Glad you liked it!

[@ShivramAyyagari]

Evan, thanks for a succinct summary. I have been in a research tunnel the last ten days, and then you basically synthesised all of that into this 8 minute video :) I did love the research, but glad to learn my takeaways were accurate from an experienced kiter.

[@erbartlett]

Glad it helped!! One of the pieces of feedback I’m getting from the video is that this recommendation is probably more suitable for heavy riders, but someone on the lighter side might want to go more for the 3 strut option or if they are really light even a surf kite. Where are you riding mostly? Hope you get some great new kites and get out for some fun sessions!

[@ShivramAyyagari]

​@@erbartlett Planning to ride mainly in northern Germany (Baltic Sea). My research has been for myself (82kgs/180lbs at 179cm/5.11") and my wife (58kgs/165cm) so that's a wide gap and the adivce has been to start with a 9 and 12 sqm quiver. And yes 3 strut.

[@erbartlett]

@@ShivramAyyagari very cool, you can definitely share a quiver of kites with someone smaller, and they'll typically ride a kite size smaller than you in the same conditions. what kite have you settled on and what sizes? what are the local conditions? where did you two take lessons?

[@ShivramAyyagari]

@@erbartlett Settled on 9 and 12 sqm. Kites - choosing between Duotone Evo, F-one Bandit and Naish (Triad/Pivot). We took lessons in Cape Town and Mexico this winter :)

[@erbartlett]

@@ShivramAyyagari I don't know as much about the Band and the Naish, but the Evo is a great kite. Have you flown any of them? What do people at your local spot typically fly? What are the wind conditions typically like for your local spot? If you're sharing kites between two people, you'll probably eventually want 3 kites. If you're in a light wind spot, then you might do 9-12-15, or if you're in a higher wind spot you might do 7-9-12. That way you basically have two kites each of you can ride, and your wife would ride the lighter one and you would ride the bigger one.

[@alexanderwheeler4827]

Im glad I learnt/come from a time where all that was available was a C kite. After all these years Ive gone back to a modern C. The Ozone amp is amazing. I would recommend it to anyone, beginning to advanced. They turn so fast and re launch really well, even in 5th line mode . Do it all kites will hold back your progression. Beginning kites are a waste of money and big air kites are to limiting. I think the right board is the gate way to better riding.

[@erbartlett]

I agree from a budget perspective it makes no sense to buy those kites and then progress on to something else two years later. But some people have the budget and just want the easiest to ride kite… and the 5 strut big air kites like the XR are slow and stable and use friendly… it just means more kites in the used market, haha

[@Showmetheevidence-]

Where I live a 12 is considered huge 😂 Conditions do really matter. 5/7/9s are common here.

[@erbartlett]

haha, i used a 17m for like 70% of my sessions in my first year of riding...

[@oliverlennard]

In Cape Town a 7 and 9 is good haha

[@KiteSurfPuntaCanaSchool]

Great insight!! I wish there were Kiteschools in the 90's )))

[@erbartlett]

hahaha, i can't even imagine how difficult it would have been learning back then. i learned about 7 years ago and it was tricky

[@KiteSurfPuntaCanaSchool]

@@erbartlett I think there is material there for Disney's next TV series ))

[@vikingh3008]

Some good priced 2nd hand core xr7 at the moment as the xr8 just came out, definitely can’t go wrong buying one of them or even the previous generation the xr6

[@erbartlett]

I’m excited to get to ride an xr8! I just got a couple Nexus 3s so I’ve been heading a bit more in that direction for foiling and surfing

[@vikingh3008]

@@erbartlett nexus are great kites, I just recived the first or my new xr8’s still waiting for the other sizes to arrive

[@erbartlett]

@@vikingh3008 i love them so far, they just dont catch quite as comfortablly as the XRS when you are landing from a jump :) that took me by surprise, need to learn to heli loop

[@vikingh3008]

@@erbartlett yes definitely learn to heli loop

[@erbartlett]

@@vikingh3008 got any pointers? i'm probably not quite jumping high enough yet (probably 4-6 meters at the moment). in additiona im just confused on where to position the kite and when to pull :)

[@wrphelan]

Awesomeness

[@Jadan888]

You said Core XR is high aspect. I thought that high aspect is long and thin, like the racing foil kites. Please clarify, am I mistaken in my understanding of the term high aspect? Switchblade, XR was mid-low aspect in my mind.

[@erbartlett]

Yep, long and thin like race foil kites, but it’s all relative. I don’t really know of any recent LEI kites that are as long and thin as race foil kites. Compared to most LEI kites the XR is higher aspect ratio than most. It’s what helps it ride upwind so we’ll and it’s what helps it generate so much power and lift. I fly a Nexus quite a bit these days and the same size nexus flies like a smaller kite, it just has less power. I’d put the nexus in that mid to low aspect ratio range. There’s a great chart here that puts a ton of kites on the graph according to aspect ratio and how flat or C shaped the kite is kitesurfculture.com/safety/32/Do-you-really-use-the-right-kite-shape-for-your-riding-style

[@Jadan888]

@@erbartlett cool, thank-you. 🙏😎

[@maximchow6605]

Would you usually bring your own kite or you rent one when you are traveling for surfing? If you bring your own one, would you bring the board together? And would it cost for the oversized check-in baggage with airlines? Thank you!

[@erbartlett]

As usual, it depends. It depends on where you are going, how picky you are about the gear you ride, the price of rentals, and the prices of over size bag fees. So there’s a few different paths 1) if you are going somewhere with cheap high quality gear for rent and it’s too expensive to bring gear or too much of a hassle to carry it ( let’s say you are traveling for 3 weeks but only have 4 days at the kite spot ) then rent your gear 2) if you are going somewhere with bad gear or super expensive rentals and you’re going to be there a while, it’s probably worth bringing your gear and paying the fees 3) I ended up buying a split twin tip ( Nobile NHP) that fits in a check in bag, this reduce my bag fees and made it much easier to fit my bags in taxis and smaller cheaper rental cars. I could fit most of my stuff in one check in suitcase and the rest in a duffel and not have to pay over size or over weight fees

[@ericmnr]

Most off the kites are good doesn't matter which that brand. Go for the better deal.

[@erbartlett]

Yeah, I think that’s true these days, I just haven’t tried that many other brands myself so I can’t speak from first hand experience!

[@vicbauwens]

Main advice: NEVER BUY NEW AS A BEGINNER. Pick up a set of second hand free ride kites at a fraction of the cost and upgrade when you know what you are doing.

[@davidsuzukiispolpot]

That is true but not all kites are as good for beginners. One of the problems many people have in the beginning is going up wind and some kites that are designed for waves or hydrofoils can be more difficult to go upwind because they sit very deep in the wind window. Kites that I have like that that I would not recommend for beginners are slingshot ghost, slingshot rally gtv2 and ocean Rodeo roam.

[@davidsuzukiispolpot]

When buying a second-hand kite don't get one that's out of date by more than say 5 years and don't get one that has completely lost it's integrity. My first inflatable larger kite that I bought and lost all of its stiffness and it was difficult because after I controlled the bar it would take many seconds to the kite to react and then I would get confused if I turned the bar the right way.

[@Milkshakes-Den]

Cool video! Looking into getting an upgrade for me kite myself, thanks. Also 30000 views exactly!

[@itisonlyaplant]

Cabrinha 12m switchblade. Solid first kite investment

[@erbartlett]

I flew one a few times when I very first started riding but haven’t been on one since! What do you like about them? What makes them good for beginners?

[@SwimBodyEVill]

Very helpful thanks

[@erbartlett]

You're welcome!

[@JohnHughes-f1f]

Great Video - Subscribed. Coming from windsurfing, which gear, aside from the kites you named, would you suggest to start with. I would buy first gear from last year on eBay Thanks for the helpful content BR John

[@erbartlett]

Thanks!! Where are you kiting? What type of riding? How much do you weigh? What’s your current skill level? I buy most of my gear used still

[@JohnHughes-f1f]

@@erbartlett Fuerteventura and the Netherlands. Type of riding: you mean which board? Twin tip, surfboard or Foilboard? First the twin tip then comes the rest. Weight 73 kg. Current skill level: Beginner. If you can name me more brands of the gear, that would be great

[@JohnHughes-f1f]

Still waiting for your answer

[@raghuram2815]

Hi Evan, but isn't Slingshot Rally also a big-air freeride 5-strut kite? Curious why you would say that isn't a good choice while you ended up choosing the XR, which I understand, is in the same category.

[@erbartlett]

My experience with Rally’s and Turbines, albeit on older models (2015/2016), was that they had very small wind ranges, didn’t handles gusts well, and had pretty strong bar pressure, so much so that my hands would get tired after riding for short periods of time. When I picked up an XR4 back to back with my slingshot equipment, it was a drastic difference so I switched pretty much in the spot. I’m sure they’ve gotten better since then, but I haven’t been able to ride any.

[@raghuram2815]

@@erbartlett I agree with high bar pressure and also the very strong pull of the Rallys. Feels scary than smooth. And mine too are 2015 and 2017. But what surprises me is... every other review I've seen of the XRs mention them as having high-ish bar pressure. You're the first one I see talking about low bar pressure on XRs. Maybe the pulleys on XR make it seem smooth to you? Don't know.

[@erbartlett]

@@raghuram2815 The pulleys I think smooth out how they handle gusts, so that definitely makes them a more "user friendly ride". Thought I realize many more aggressive riders hat that indirect feel from pulleys :) I'd probably categorize the XRs as medium and not light bar pressure, maybe medium heavy. I used to ride the 19m XR4 up over 20mph and didn't have any trouble holding the bar, while the 17m Turbine I had would be so strong at 18mph that my hands and forearms would be gassed after like 20 min... thats saying a lot because I used to be into rock climbing prior to kiting so i had decent grip and forearm strength built up. All of this is probably irrelevant now days because both kites have changed so much, and I'm sure the slingshots are a lot better. That being said, people tend to still recommend the XRs for their stability / user friendliness / gust handling / extreme wind range / easy boosting and floaty landings. I've since moved towards using more 3 strut kites, the Nexus 3 in particular, and I love something more maneuverable, but I miss some of those XR characteristics!

[@theJACKSON10]

Do you reccomened a seated harness or waist and what line length would you suggest.

[@erbartlett]

How much experience do you have and what type of riding are you doing? Harnesses are really personal preference, as everyones body is difference (people might have certain injuries) and everyones riding styles are different. I generally ride a wast harness because I really like to have nothing wrapped around my legs. The extra mobility is something that I prioritize, and since I got a stealth harness I have less issues with the harness riding up. Waist harness definitely remove the issue of the harness sliding up, and they tend to keep the bar closer to you, which is nice.

[@wernercruywagen8174]

I've been kiting a few years. Loved my evos and then went to the sls version and found them too aggressive. I'm selling them and I'm torn between the nexus and the bandits. I tt, kitefoil and now trying to learn a surfboard. In saying that I know I will love the xr8 but I know they aren't good for drift when foiling or surfing. As a compromise I'm thinking getting a nexus 12 and 9 with and xr8 7m. It's really gusty where I live. Guernsey channel islands. I'd appreciate your input on what you think would be the best. I'm looking for something easier than the Evo SLS. So the options are. Fone bandit / core nexus / or split nexus xr8 mentioned above. All 12/9/7. Thanks so much.

[@erbartlett]

I completely understand the dilemna! I haven't flown the bandits, so I can't give you a point of comparison. I can tell you the Nexus 2s and 3s turn much much faster than the XRs, and the drift when foiling has been great. I have a 9m and its really fun to fly when foiling. That being said, when its nuking and gusty... I want to be an on XR, especially if I'm jumping. The Nexus's can jump, but your technique has to be precise, and they dont catch you as easily... so I've had some hard landings. My setup at the moment is a 15m XR5, 12m Nexus 3, 12m Xlite, 9m Nexus 3, 7m XR6. What didn't you like about the Evo SLS, i've heard people really like those, and I've been dying to try them.

[@wernercruywagen8174]

@@erbartlett Thanks for the advice. Re the Evos, like in said I loved the standard evos but the sls version just wasn't an improvent. For one you need to work the kite much more to get the power. Strangely instead of having more power they seem to have less, ie the lowend is terrible. Conversely when the wind really picks up I've had several instances where they jellyfish. Don't get me wrong it is gusty here but the standard evos never did that. In short, if you're looking at the duotones, stick with the non sls versions. I could go on but I think you get the ide. Interesting that you also have xe in the small size, I'm really thinking that'd the way to go. Tx again

[@jcRaptor700]

Thanks you for your nice Video and helpfull Tipps. But the background music in Video is much too loud.

[@kev2wheeling242]

Good wind today field 2 let's go see your a local Long Island kiter suprised I don't recognize you from tobay

[@erbartlett]

I’m visiting family in Texas, got to ride the last two days so I was pumped! I ride Tobay a bit in the winter, but I’ve been out less the last couple months due to life getting busy with my two year old :)

[@chrisduc1]

For me the 5 strut kite was way to slow ….at the beginning…. Then I tryed a fast 3 strut kite . And since that day I have this model for 12years now . But it is all a personal thing. From the first lessons I was happy with a 3 strut until today 🤷🏽‍♂️not making advertising for brands ….

[@erbartlett]

@@chrisduc1 I rode 5 strut kites for a couple years when first starting out and now I’m riding 3 strut kites and 1 strut kites ( when foiling). I’d love to try a wider variety of kites because the 3 strut kite I’m riding ( the core nexus) turns really fast but doesn’t have as much power as my previous kites so I always feel like I need a size or two bigger! What 3 strut are you riding?

[@samuel_heinz2649]

If you had to buy one kite for the US I would say if you live in 1. Outer Banks 2. Hood River 3. Corpus Christi ---get a 10m-11m 3 strut reach, pivot, or just get a duotone Evo. If you live anywhere else in the US get a 12m-14m.

[@jonkocan92]

I'm a beginner. I started in the summer of 2022 i bought two kite the evo 12m and a 9m. My friends go out on sea with wind conditions about 28 a 35 knots. I find that to hard to start. And when i ride my 9m with wind conditions around 25knots thats perfect. Is smart for me to buy a extra 7 or maybe a 6m (EVO SLS that i can use for foiling in the future) kite for harder conditions (i ride in the Netherlands on sea most of the time) im not that heavy 65kg

[@erbartlett]

Thanks for subscribing! Yeah, I would think that 35 knots is a lot for 65kg, especially for a new rider. I would look at riders in your area and weight class to see what kite they buy most often. A 7m or 6m could be a good addition, as I know you get some serious wind in parts of the Netherlands! I have a 15, 12, 9, and a 7m and this year I almost bought a 6m :) and I’m 99kg

[@thiago.saraiva]

Hoping to leave a constructive feedback: very nice content. Thanks for that. However, the background music was a bit too loud compared to the voice, so in some parts i struggled a bit to listen to what you were saying clearly. Hope it's useful;)

[@georgewhitehouse8630]

Thank you

[@yetanotheryoutuber4271]

The background music is torture but thanks for the info

[@eengooglegebruiker4153]

Maybe put the background music a bit louder, I was hardly able to hear it 🤣🤣

[@erbartlett]

@@eengooglegebruiker4153 thanks for the feedback!! I’ll double check my levels

[@eengooglegebruiker4153]

@@erbartlett FYI I was being sarcastic. Could be due to personal preference but sometimes I found it hard to hear you speak. Thanks for checking bro 👍

[@Dyno_64]

The music is insanely loud

[@laur3nskite477]

Very good video but i have to disagree with you in the brand aspect. Buying kites from the big brands will cost you a fortune and they loose value very quickly when reselling. I personally believe that there are many smaller brands with really good kites for a better prize and with better reselling value. For example Vantage, Ventum, Harlem…

[@erbartlett]

I think brands that people use most in your are have the best resale value. Very few people here use slingshot, so those were harder kites for me to sell. Lots of people here use Core, so those are easy to sell and retain a good bit of their value if you don’t abuse them.

[@vikingh3008]

Disagree, those small brands usually have awful resale value I would rather buy a core or duotone kite that’s 1 year old than buy a new from some of the brands you mentioned

[@lucasmilner3162]

Just get an orbit like you cant go wrong

[@kyriakos8020]

orbit works good only in heavy wind

[@RicardoSantos-zh5uz]

Your videos have good content, but the music is really annoying. i tried several videos but left because of the distracting music.

[@erbartlett]

It’s too loud or the music isn’t your vibe?

[@RicardoSantos-zh5uz]

@@erbartlett just too loud. No music would be better.