Does the Renaissance have roots in Islamic philosophy?

[@HABEEBS007]

MashaAllah that was such an engaging conversation. I can hear this for any number of hours. Natalia's ending comments made me enthralled and my eyes welled up. Thanks a ton for such a wonderful session ❤

[@liminally-spacious]

Awesome interview. Thank you so much for the overview of Islamic philosophy. I find the emanationist tradition fascinating.

[@dorothysatterfield3699]

Many thanks. And now I've discovered yet another podcast I have to catch up on.

[@alija-sirbeg]

Thank you, Natalia! Beauifulll!

[@jordanedgeley6601]

Love this. Thank you ❤

[@maxheadrom3088]

Very interesting! Thank you! I would love to see something about the influence of Christianity in the development of science. Thanks!

[@TheGerogero]

I would like to know to what degree figures of the "Islamic Golden Age" could more accurately be referred to as Persian.

[@shafsteryellow]

Outside of poetry?

[@mihaiserbu8447]

Agree !

[@TheHouseeeee]

Islam's civilization basically created the room for such sciences that the persians excelled at to manifest. To try to take Islam(and its civilization) out of the(it seems like you're trying to do that) is ignorant or down right malicious. Theres a reason why there is nothing comparable to the Islamic Golden age(or persian golden age as Iranian nationalists love to protray it as) in pre islamic iran....

[@elcaporal739]

its combination of both arabs and persians and othets, but since they drew from islamic principles it’s called islamic, it wasn’t just persian or just arab or turkic, the thing that summarised them all and brought them together was islam

[@Jacob-Vivimord]

What is the context of this video? How is it related to the purpose of the channel? It seemed Adamson was saying there wasn't a great deal of monistic idealism metaphysics in Islamic philosophy.

[@nitahill6951]

A really enjoyable and informative discussion! Prof. Adamson framing of the contribution of the Islamic world to Western philosophy was illuminating. Unfortunately my own reading had been very haphazard and the structure he provided was greatly appreciated. Thank you both for your time and attention.

[@carlosg7873]

Thank you for this enligtning conversation. I would just like to say that addressing the influence of islamic thought in the Renaissance, was due largely to the influence of Gemisto Plato who introduced greek philosophy to Florence thru the traslations of the greek philosophers by the islamic thinkers who actually rescued them for us.

[@konnektlive]

As a scholar of Persian philosophies, that's actually pretty sad that Mr Adamson in this video doesn't even mention the importance of Zoroastrianism, and all the fundamental ideas within it and their influence and impact on Suhrawardi as well as many other philosophers before and after him. In fact, the very core teachings and philosophy of Zoroaster is based upon Angra Mainyu the Force or God of darkness, and Ahura Mazda the supreme God of light. Far from being a dualist, Suhrawardi utilised such ancient Persian ideas, and actually directly mentions the ancient Persian sages (Persian Maguses) that heavily influenced later philosophers such as Plotinus, Plato and even Pythagoras. Suhrawardi actually is well known as the 'reviver of the (so-called) Persian paganism" from the point of view of many stricted Islamic scholars of his time, hence his famous execution, and martyrdom. Hikmat al Ishraq (حکمت الآشراق) actually means "wisdom of the East or wisdom of the mystical East". There are fundamental differences between Suhrawardi' core ideas with Aristotle, Avicenna, and most other philosophers before and after him. Again, he actually mentions in the first chapter of his magnum opus that his Hikmat Al Ishraq is from both his mystical experiences and insights, as well as the philosophies to back them up intellectually. Sadly your guest doesn't at all mention the most important idea of Suhrawardi, which is his approach and in a way attempt to revive the ancient Persian mystical traditions and schools of philosophy, which is directly related to the notion of light and illumination (which again is reflected in Zoroastrianism as the religion of light). His core idea of Light of the Lights (نور الانوار) is taken directly from the ancient Persian idea of Vohu Manah (modern Persian 'Bahman"), which is a Zoroastrian Amshaspand (one of the main archetypical cosmic force/archangel) that in most interpretations can be equated to the idea of Logos. This is a broad topic indeed, but I assume Mr Adamson isn't really familiar enough with the Persian language to be able to study the first hand materials, hence his ignorance and very incomplete picture he is trying to portrait in this video. I'm just leaving this comment for the future readers, but I'm open to provide reliable links and more information if people are interested to know more.

[@konnektlive]

Also adding that again, the MAIN reason why Suhrawardi was executed was because, the Muslim jurists of that time historically speaking accused him of reviving the so-called "Persian paganism" or the religions of maguses (مجوس). I think it's be far more easier and honest if the guests simply say that they're not educated enough about the topic to be able to get into details, instead of simply misinforming the public about the truths of matter...

[@Sikeena]

Having researched at length the influence of Islamic philosophy on the European Renaissance, I found this discussion to be very interesting. In my Master's Dissertation, submitted to the Warburg Institute in Sept 2022, I delve into this question in-depth; particularly linking the continuities of thought between classical Islamic philosophy and Pico della Mirandola. In my thesis, I investigate the “wondrous” nature of humankind with which Pico opens his famous Oration (on the Dignity of Man) finding parallels in classical Islamic humanism, which elevates humankind to a station above the angels by virtue of their intellect. I specifically focus on the ideas of Ibn Ṭufayl whose seminal work Ḥayy ibn Yaqẓān eschews societal norms as well as the acceptance of dogma and tradition (taqlīd) in favour of intellectual thought and rationalism (Ijtihād). I argue that Pico della Mirandola follows a similar trajectory, that favours philosophy over revealed religion, thereby elevating (according to Pico) the human being from the beastly mores of medieval European philosophy towards the loftier realms of the studia humanitatis that encapsulates the humanism of the Quattrocento. It is wonderful to see as celebrated a scholar of the history of philosophy as Peter Adamson, picking up on this topic

[@spiritfilled5758]

I appreciate this channel and the heart behind the work being done through the Essentia Foundation, to benefit humanity,.❤

[@MartyMcK]

Neo Platonic which also influenced Christianity and Kabbalah.

[@AndresWalsh]

Dies Prof. Peter Adamson ever address East Asian philosophy in his Philosophy Without Any Gaps series?

[@bw7601]

He is going to start a series on classical chinese philosophy next year

[@clintjones6966]

I think that if Islam has never happened, Renaissance would indeed be very different. I suspect there would be no Schism (as there would be Pentarchy) and thoughts and writings of Antic world would be much more ready available in Europe. Therefore Renaissance would have happened much faster.

[@HigoWapsico]

The House of Kastrup is on 🔥🔥🔥 Thank you, this was excellent. Having a hard time trusting any academics/experts these days, but this was interesting and enjoyable… Apropos “Dark Ages/Renaissance” If I may offer a guest suggestion, Steve Patterson…

[@nitahill6951]

And as an aside...Were any Islamic thinkers influenced by the Pre-Socratics?

[@peteradamson4108]

Peter Adamson here! Yes, sort of: remember that a lot of our knowledge of the Presocratics is in Aristotle, and they translated him. So they were aware of their basic doctrines at least. Their names were also attached to popular wisdom traditions (like, wise sayings) in ways that usually didn't have anything to do with the real thinkers though.

[@nitahill6951]

Thank you for the reply. I had read somewhere that there was a special interest in Empedocles. but I had no idea that his writings were filtered thorough Aristotle. Thank you in this time of love and strife!@@peteradamson4108

[@AkEl-Man]

Why call it islamic philosophy and compare it to a European one? Islam as it is in the texts it claims devine has nothing to do with th philosophies that emerged at its time, and it would be an insult to all philosophers and scientists of the time to do so. I would call it at least - as you refer to European philosophy - a middle eastern philosophy. Even better? "Arabic philosophy" as many scholars like to refer to it, since some of these "islamic philosophies" were produced by non Muslims !

[@Psychedelic_Psychedeler]

Exactly !

[@jacobdillow2375]

Kind of a flat, two dimensional view of the issue. Among scholars of religion the relation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus has been a topic of keen interest for centuries.

[@AkEl-Man]

​@@jacobdillow2375 i don't get how your comment is responding to anything in mine. "islamic" philosophers or scientists of the time didn't produce the set of thoughts they had based on the Islamic religion (i.e Quran and Hadith). it's more as if they were exceptional people (which usually pop over from century to the other) that found themselves born in an islamic fundementally religious society. what's even worse is that most of these "Islamic" philosophers were called heretics and none muslim by religious "savants" of the time. it would be more honest to refer to what these brilliant men produced by the area from which they came, i.e. the middle East, Crediting Islam : the set of brain rotting dogmatic religious ideas to the sometimes wonderful work of these great humans is an insult to them and their intellectual effort. And does nothing but keep deeply endoctrinated individuals think their religion must be so awsome and thus true to be the source and inspiration to what the video calls "Islamic philosphies".

[@ahadkhan3486]

I suppose you have the same sentiments for Jewish philosophy? Btw how would your theory account for learned scholars of Islam and Falsafa, such as Ibn Arabi for example? Its not like these were hard lined distinctions in the medieval world, most of these same philosophers were Islamic Judges as well​@akramelmansouri6752

[@AkEl-Man]

​@@ahadkhan3486 i'd guess you're a muslim since you backslide to anything jew. To clarify that first : Jewish philosophy considers itself an intellectual tradition within Judaism. It involves speculative inquiry rooted in Jewish religious perspectives, concerns, and canonical texts. In contrast, what is often called Islamic philosophy refers to philosophical work produced in Islamic societies. Since it is not exclusively concerned with religious issues and not only produced by Muslims, many scholars prefer the term "Arabic philosophy." i refered to it as "middle eastern", but i think "arabic" would be more apropriate. Ibn Arabi? really? i mean he was indeed considered a great shaykh of isoteric islam (sufism) .. but as i mentionned in a previous reply, him too was severely condemned by many with charges of heresy, unbelief, blasphemy, pantheism, and even atheism. prooving once again the dissociation between the ideas of most philosophers of the time and the actual doctrine of islam (especially sunnism that is majority of the muslim world).

[@sxsmith44]

He doesn’t seem to be aware of BK’s analytic idealism and she didn’t define it for him at 38 min in.

[@user-gn8gz1vn3b]

Lets call Islamic philosophy/ science as West Asian philosophy/ science just like Indian, chinese & European philosophy.

[@levous2]

Sorry but this guy is just missing everything important about this topic. It wasn’t because of cultural reform that Europe progressed while others stayed behind. It was the paper mill and then the printing press and exponentially accelerated the advancement and exchange of ideas that rapidly transformed the western culture, including the foundations of philosophical and religious belief. The Islamic world banned the printing press, with the penalty of death, as an unholy device. If not for that one catastrophically poor decision, the world would have progressed in unison. It’s ridiculous that Adamson says, “I don't think its that sensible to spend a lot of effort trying to explain why things don't happen.” Seriously?! Isn’t that rather an important question? And is technology and access to information not a pretty profound reason why Europe went on to dominate globally for centuries? I’m sure he’s a smart guy but what a closed minded discussion!

[@roygbiv176]

This guy's perenialism denial is absurd. You only have to read a little from Timaeus or Phaedo to see a striking resemblance to the much older Upanishads.

[@ChristianSt97]

the greeks were definitely influenced by eastern philosophy

[@bw7601]

because your subjective experience of resemblance when reading modern translated texts defo beats a world leading expert in the field

[@ChristianSt97]

@@bw7601 he is not saying anything controversial. being an expert doesnt mean being right

[@roygbiv176]

​@@bw7601I'm not trying to be dismissive of Adamson, he clearly has a very vast range of knowledge and seems to be a great source for this. However there were several opinions he expressed with a typical modern tilt. This is perfectly normal among researchers, we all live amid the prejudices of our time, however there are a number of such prejudices or tendencies common today that I take issue with. Other examples include the somewhat dismissive attitude to Berkeley and Kant & the insistance on taking certain philosophers less literally...

[@bw7601]

⁠@@roygbiv176 Using the phrase “perennialism denial” and calling adamson absurd is 100% dismissing him. Trust me, there are few academics who attempt to get out of modern perspectives and viewpoints MORE than Adamson does. In fact, whenever he is questioned why his (quite unpopular) field of the history of philosophy is important he says it is to escape the biases of modern viewpoints. But perennialism isn’t just some out of date philosophical viewpoint, it’s, as he describes, a historically contingent rhetorical strategy for reinforcing a certain worldview, that in order to make credible one must flatten all the intricacies of historical traditions’ specificity. And it rests on a lot of misconceptions and bogus history, for instance the idea we have any evidence Plato studied in Egypt

[@imaginaryuniverse632]

Might save some splaining if instead of flying man he told the story of sensory deprivation chamber man. 🤶

[@nataliavorontsova3205]

Indeed, that is what comes to mind when listening to this story... which is remarkable because this thought experiment was done ~11 centuries ago, long before sensory depravation chambers were invented :)