Eteocretans: Minoans under Mycenaean Crete (1450-1100 BC)

[@odysseus5607]

Such an interesting topic! Let's hope that Linear A is decoded in our lifetimes so that we may know what those Eteocretans were thinking about!

[@ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣΑΜΠΕΛΙΔΗΣ]

you are always covering very interesting subjects, that no one knows, but they are a significant part of our history. Good job, keep making....

[@michalischeilos1511]

ΑΜΑ ΘΕΣ ΣΟΥ ,ΜΑΘΑΙΝΩ ΔΙΑΦΟΡΑ ΠΡΑΓΜΑΤΑ ΓΙΑ ΤΟΥΣ ΕΤΕΟΚΡΗΤΕΣ,ΕΧΩ ΣΠΟΥΔΕΣ ΣΤΗΝ ΑΡΧΑΙΟΛΟΓΙΑ,ΕΙΜΑΙ ΑΠΟ ΤΗΗΝ ΣΗΤΕΙΑ ΚΡΗΤΗΣ ΚΑΙ ΕΧΩ ΔΟΥΛΕΨΕΙ Κ ΕΝΑ ΧΡΟΝΟ ΣΤ ΑΡΧΑΙΟΛΟΓΙΚΟ ΜΟΥΣΕΙΟ ΤΗΣ ΣΗΤΕΙΑΣ

[@mercianthane2503]

One day we shall find a Rosetta Stone for the minoans and mycenaeans. I hope so.

[@oskareriksson2202]

We yet understand Mycenaean linear B. It's a proto Greek. The problem is that on the tablets there are only administrative info...the counts, the sacrifices, the taxes, some personal name (achireu, achilles appear but is not our Achilles, it refer to a shepherd who payed taxes). There isn't gossip like in Roman and classical Greek history (there was private writers often, like Tacitus, while the Mycenaean scribas did write administrative things for the palace and the king) , since there aren't operas of writers we don't know many things about their daily life. But we know how the Mycenaean complex burocracy did work for sure. How their power chain was, how the administrative state did work what We don't understand is LINEAR A. THE MINOAN WRITING SYSTEM. Because simply we have too few tablets to decrypt it. In cnossos archives there are both Minoan and mycenaean tables, we can understand the Mycenaean tablets but not the Minoan. They're simply too few...in future if we find s great archives, we could decypt it. (Those who understood the Mycenaean linear B used the same system used in WW2 to decrypt messages. We have technology to do that. But the Minoan writing material is too scarse to be decrypted....).

[@panagiotis7946]

@@oskareriksson2202 Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space The language of Linear B is Greek the inhabitants of an area do not suddenly change it's always there what changes? the means of production they use we have an evolution of systematically writing Cretan hieroglyphs---linear A---linear B you change the linear A to fewer symbols and thus change both the grammar and the syntax and turn into a simpler writing system the linear B this is the main reason why we do not decipher the linear A because we do not know its structure it was not the language of the inhabitants that changed, but the style of the language the style of English in Shakespeare's time was different from today's English, but they remain the same language but the royal hieroglyphs of Egypt from the popular hieroglyphs but the language is the same the Greek alphabet is different in the 8th century 27 elements different in the 5th century 22 elements but the language is the same change the language texture Here is a link that has some of the Linear A words read linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress ... -11-pages/ Let's look at a few turunu qo/rnoj = throne That is, a throne--θρόνος kera/kero ke/raj = horn (ivory) -or- khr/oj = bees-wax Cf. Linear B kera That is, a horn--- κέρας waja #ai/a = earth, land That is, Gaia-- Γαια-Γη kara kara/ = head That is, kari, the head----καρα-( ancient Greek ) - κεφαλη koru ko/ruj = helmet The helmet---κρανος dare da=lei/

[@michalischeilos1511]

I AM A DESCENDANT OF ETEOCRETANS.I LIVE IS SITIA,EASTERN CRETA,MY AREA HAS THE RICHEST HISTORY FROM THE MINOAN PERIOD.UNTIL ROMAN TIMES THE MINOAN CULTURE EXISTED IN MY AREA

[@odysseus5607]

Είναι κρίμα που όλος ο κόσμος τους λέει Μινωίτες επειδή ο Arthur Evans τους ονόμασε έτσι, ενώ ήδη ήξεραν την πραγματική τους ονομασία από τον Όμηρο και τους αρχαίους συγγραφείς :(

[@DionysiosPhryx]

Yeah, the Eteocretans were Asians and North African like Cyprus. You are more related to Levantines than Greeks, because Crete was originally not Greek, but a Greek colony, like Cyprus. Ancient sources state that Greeks came from Dodona, Epirus. Northern Greek are original Greeks. Southern Greeks have Asian and North African DNA, because Greek from Libya and Egypt mixed with the local and introduced these poor genes into South of mainland Greece and Crete. That would also explain, why you are darker then Northern Greeks. Who knows, you ancestors came from Alexandria to Crete.

[@astrobullivant5908]

Tupremereia. Also, how did the Dorians get to Crete?

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@DionysiosPhryx - That's not really true: there's no particular African influence in Crete, not even in archaeogenetic studies. In fact mainstream Greeks (but much less so those derived from "Pelasgians" such as Cretans and Thessalians), like Albanians (Illyrians in Antiquity), have the highest concentrations of a patrilineage E1b-V13, which does ultimately derive from Africa... but arrived to Europe with the Early (Vasconic) Neolithic... via West Asia (more common was G2a however). The characteristic "Pelasgian" (Pelasgo-Tyrsenian) marker is J2, which must have arrived later and surely with the second Neolithic wave of Dimini-Vinca (ultimately rooted to Upper Mesopotamia, Halafian culture). It was surely (more research is needed) expanded to Italy by the Etruscans (part of the Pelasgo-Tyrsenian bunch) c. 900 BCE and then re-expanded westward by the Roman Empire (West of the Alps it's almost invariably a Roman colonization marker). So if there is an African element in that region (and of course there is even if thinly spread and arrived via West Asia, we are all "one drop Black") it belongs rather to the Vasconic earliest Neolithic colonization and is not in any war related to Pelasgians as such, nor particularly prominent in Crete (rather in Central and Southern Greece, the core of Mycenaean Greece).

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@astrobullivant5908 - Excellent question that I got partly answered by this channel weeks ago, when they mentioned that the legendary Greek conquest of Crete was made by people (legendary heroes, can't recall their names) of the Phthiotis (now Southern Thessaly) area. That's the same area where IMO the Dorians (Doris was just west of Phtiotis) and in general the so-called "Western dialects" (macro-Dorian) of ancient Greek originated. After the Trojan War that region's legendary heroes did not just expand to the Peloponese but also to Epirus and Thessaly (which somehow ended speaking Aeolian instead). So it's possible that Crete was speaking Dorian (or something similar) centuries before the Peloponese.

[@brandonchdib5380]

I’m super happy I randomly searched up etocreteans, I’ve found this gem of a channel

[@Bogey1022]

You're in for a ride. A wonderful ride that too few know about. This channel is awesome

[@la_belle_heaulmiere]

I really like the visual style of your videos and the depiction art of people. I always also greatly appreciate your extensive use of maps in all your videos.

[@WanaxTV]

Thank you! It took enormous time to develop the maps. I do constantly work on them!

[@derekwildstar731]

Fantastic work! Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to watch.

[@geovanaborgo7365]

This channel has been one of my most interesting discoveries lately! Thank you so much for your work!

[@WanaxTV]

Thank you! Glad you like the content!

[@bc7138]

I think it speaks to the strength of the economy of Knossos if they could field a force of 500 chariots and over 5,000 infantrymen. That's around the equivalent of a Roman Legion! A very rich city indeed, although it's hard to know how well equipped those infantrymen would've been.

[@FlashyLight]

awesome video, love this

[@herculianthegreat]

Dna tests showed Modern Cretans have same dna with minoan skeletons

[@professor0076]

thanks...i didn't know those facts about writing.

[@oskareriksson2202]

Later after the Dorian invasion also the Mycenaean joined the destiny of the etheocretans often and merged them. There was in dark age entire villages and towns inland up to the mountains of Mycenaean and Minoan refuges who lived there for another 1000 years like etheocretans. The last settlements was destroyed by Pompey in his campaigns against piracy in eastern med., Since some had become a cove of pirates but I'm sure in some rural area some etheocretan comunity by now speaking Greek or s Greek dialect, survived also in Roman era until the byzantine era. I'm pretty sure of that basing my idea on anthropological cases percentage.

[@funkyfiss]

Great video. As always!! Although i personally believe the story of Theseus and the Minotaur actually took place before this time. During the time of the Pelasgian league that was the height of the Minoan empire which Athens was subjected to and would have had to pay tribute every couple of years. The Pelasgian league was replaced by the Achean league.

[@panagiotis7946]

the Athenians are native Pelasgians who changed their name to Iones. You mention this with pride from many ancient writings. The Athenians are not Achaeans

[@funkyfiss]

@@panagiotis7946 I agree, although Achaeans is a name often given to describe all Greeks even though it is a name of a manor tribe in Greece and this was during the Achaean league that Athens was also under control off at one point in time.

[@panagiotis7946]

@@funkyfiss up to classical Greece 5th-4th centuries BC the ancient Greek writings referred to remains of Pelasgian communities no writer mentions that they did not speak Greek they spoke undeveloped ancient Greek in the memory of the Greeks is that all the so-called Dorians, Aeolians, Achaeans, Ionians derive from the Pelasgians and create their own way of life and political organization then more and more Pelasgians follow this is also symbolically reflected in Greek mythology where everyone is related to each other but also to the gods

[@funkyfiss]

@@panagiotis7946 Even from Pelasgian times groups of people were related to the gods. Take the Pelasgian tribe of the Leleges, taken from their legendary ancestor Lelex, son of Poseidon ect... But I totally agree with you that the Pelasgians were the first Greeks. Even Herodotus when pondering if the Greeks got their writing system from the Phoenesians tells us that before the Greeks adopted their Alphabet they wrote in crude drawings. Well who do we know wrote in drawings? The Minoans and the Pelasgians who were all Greek as well.

[@panagiotis7946]

@@funkyfiss Phoenician is a writing system. Phoenician and cuneiform are writing systems like exactly the linear scripts I II in Greece It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure. it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A? All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek. Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period. All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time with the era of Phoenician writing Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians? The few inscriptions in Carthage are unreadable en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Administration_Inscription Ahiram's Larnaca is dated to the 10th century BC completely unscientifically and based on the Bible. BC, the era of Solomon, while there are Cypriot vessels from the 5th century BC. were found!!!!!!!!! even the name is Greek because with the Phoenician writing system it would not be possible to write the Greek language, which uses many vowels or words consisting only of vowels The truth is that the Greek alphabets such as Ionian, Chalcidian, Corinthian, Boeotian, Attic, etc. evolved from Linear B as the Phoenician and Cypromino scripts The Phoenician script is a simplification of the Cypromino syllabary of Cyprus In fact, the Cypromino script is more complete for writing complex texts because it preserves the vowels Of the ancient languages, only Greek and Latin were recorded in many books in a complete and understandable manner All other languages and writings, such as cuneiform, were based on language models used by scientists that have nothing to do with the reality of what exactly was written Anyone can read whatever they want because we don't know grammar or syntax

[@Insectoid_]

Excellent

[@Steven-dt5nu]

I can imagine a good movie or story roughly based on the Sea People. Must have been desperate times for them.

[@ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣΑΜΠΕΛΙΔΗΣ]

i also want to learn why we dont have or find an inscription of linear A and linear B together , like the rosseta stone, in order to decrypt this lost writing of linear A

[@michalischeilos1511]

ΥΠΑΡΧΕΙ Η ΕΤΕΟΚΡΗΤΙΚΗ ΓΡΑΦΗ/ΓΡΑΜΜΙΚΗ Α ΜΕ ΑΡΧΑΙΚΟ ΑΛΦΑΒΗΤΟ

[@ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣΑΜΠΕΛΙΔΗΣ]

@@michalischeilos1511 Αν υπάρχει όπως λες και δεν αντιλέγω, δεν βοήθησε στην αποκρυπτογράφηση της γραμμικής Α δυστυχώς. Είναι κάτι παρόμοιο που έχουμε εδώ στην βόρεια Ελλάδα. Επιγραφές στην θρακική γλώσσα με το Ελληνικό αλφάβητο. Επιγραφές μη κατανοητές ακόμα και σήμερα

[@theodoruspantelides8661]

@@ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣΑΜΠΕΛΙΔΗΣ i own a greco turkish friendship discord server if you want to join send me your account

[@panagiotis7946]

Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space The language of Linear B is Greek the inhabitants of an area do not suddenly change it's always there what changes? the means of production they use we have an evolution of systematically writing Cretan hieroglyphs---linear A---linear B you change the linear A to fewer symbols and thus change both the grammar and the syntax and turn into a simpler writing system the linear B this is the main reason why we do not decipher the linear A because we do not know its structure it was not the language of the inhabitants that changed, but the style of the language the style of English in Shakespeare's time was different from today's English, but they remain the same language but the royal hieroglyphs of Egypt from the popular hieroglyphs but the language is the same the Greek alphabet is different in the 8th century 27 elements different in the 5th century 22 elements but the language is the same change the language texture Here is a link that has some of the Linear A words read linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress ... -11-pages/ Let's look at a few turunu qo/rnoj = throne That is, a throne--θρόνος kera/kero ke/raj = horn (ivory) or khr/oj = bees-wax Cf. Linear B kera That is, a horn--- κέρας waja #ai/a = earth, land That is, Gaia-- Γαια-Γη kara kara/ = head That is, kari, the head----καρα-( ancient Greek ) - κεφαλη koru ko/ruj = helmet The helmet---κρανος dare da=lei/

[@mzeewatk846]

I’ve been enjoying your uploads, recently, because youprovide an effectively visualizable model of Bronze Age history. But it bugs me a bit that you don’t make it clear when you’re distinguishing between generalizations you describe as events, and peer-reviewed evidence. Especially when you ascribe historical attributions to mythical individuals

[@oskareriksson2202]

Iron weapons did exist also earlier. But only the nobles had it and sometime, not even ever (Elamites mitanni, and even Hittite nobles had them often and willingly, while in Egypt Canaan and Greece there was less. Also the arzawans and the Trojan nobles sometime had probably. Often was of meteoritic origin the iron.). The seapeoples developed the javelin tactics (earlier used mainly to hunt not much for war also if was yet used sometime) with javelins they did annihilate the upper class vantage (the charioteers had dominste life and politics of the bronze age, people's without charioteer class and palaces did live outside the civilized world 🌎 and was considered barbarians, and no one could match chariots in battle, no infantry could. But sometime between 1300 and 1200 bc these people's understood that their assault chariot runners (the infantry with sword and round shields)could doom massacre charioteers with the javelin, by launching and killing horses, than running to cut the throat of the charioteers, and so every palace between Pylos and Ugarit was razed to ground and the whole political system collapsed. For that the Egyptians wrote no one could resist to their assault. Egypt too survived but was so weekend that become a local power and survived another 1000 years before disappear. The sea peoples and the migrants from Europe to Anatolia and middle east had to their cause wrath, hate, and some technological vantage. It was an apocalypse for the bronze age commonwealth of states, the end of the world.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Well told. I have one doubt and one objection. Doubt: do we really have Eteocretan texts in Greek alphabet or did I misunderstand you? Objection: the Late Bronze Age Collapse extends in Egypt and Greece all the way to c. 1070 BCE. That it is not documented in any clear way, especially what happened at this last date, which is (approx.) that of the Meswesh (Berber) conquest of Lower Egypt and of the final destruction of all Greek cities save Athens, doesn't mean that nothing happened but that we don't know the details (we know the archaeology though and for Egypt at least some details).

[@WanaxTV]

Hi Luiz, thanks for the feedback. 1) Yes, there are Eteocretan language inscriptions in Greek alphabet, ranging from c. 700-300 BCE. Early on they were written using the old Cretan version of the alphabet, and later on using Ionian style. 2) Thanks, I am aware of that. The reason I covered the matter until 1150 BCE (destruction of Cretan sites) and 1100 BCE (overall) is because there will be more content coming, covering 1150/1100 to 1000 BCE time period on Crete. For example, the peak sanctuary town of Karfi survived into the Dark Ages and was one of the centers of native Cretan activity after the collapse.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@WanaxTV - Thanks for replying, Wanax. Interesting that part you say about Karfi. I can only imagine that the Atlanteans (???) could not destroy everything and these obscure liasons between late Mycenaean Greece (already Dorianized IMO) and early historical Greece, which must include Athens and Karfi but there were surely others too, seem to deserve some more love, wouldn't you agree? Anyhow, I have to object again, this time to your mispelling of my name: there's no such thing as "Luiz" in any language, the Spanish and Portuguese form is Luis, with "s" (same name as Lewis, Louis, etc., all from Clovis the Frank ultimately). Worry not is a strange but somewhat common error, no feelings were hurt, but I had to say it.

[@WanaxTV]

@@LuisAldamiz Sorry my friend, I apologize. Your last name ends with z, so I mistakenly saw Luiz instead of Luis!

[@DionysiosPhryx]

Hey Basque, do speak Basque? Where Basque come from? Are you gypsies or not? I tell you from the Caucasus. Georgians are closely related to you.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@DionysiosPhryx - The Georgian connection does not stand, sorry. The real history of the Basque roots is that of European mainline Neolithic with Anatolian roots. Don't worry if you don't like it, lots of Basques (used to believe ourselves direct descendants from the artists of the Paleolithic caves) don't like it either. But that's almost certainly (99.99% certain) the truth: the farmers that settled all Europe west of the Dniepr-Vistula line (approx.) and that originated in Asia Minor, who stopped in Greece and Bulgaria in their long journey westwards via the continental route to Central Europe and the sea route to Italy, France and Iberia, meeting again at the Rhine a thousand years later (and probably still being able to understand each other with some difficulty) spoke the precursor of Basque language. Their genetics were not yet Basque but rather Sardinian-like (I contributed in 2017 to a book on the Basque-like eteo-Sardinian language, which is all over the place in the toponymy, some vocabulary and also in cultural elements like the mamutzones), Basque genetics have almost 40% of extra Paleo-European and, while apparent in the Neolithic of Scandinavia, in West Europe are only clearly visible with the Bell Beaker culture (although such Neo-Paleo mixed genetics were probably present in parts of France and Iberia earlier). Ancient Iberians were nearly identical to modern Basques (and their language was clearly related as well).

[@beepboop204]

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