Etrel - Shared card payment system for charging stations

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[@amolaksinghsunnerd4999]

I still don't get why they can't display the price of charging in big numbers like as in fossil fuel station.

[@KannexMedia]

Most of the Charging stations in Canada and USA will have a sign or sticker with the $/hr fee. Although most people will end up getting billed by the minute

[@MHG1023]

Those big poles with large displays are relatively expensive but for fossil fuel providers it is acceptable as it is advertising for them and those signs are on their relatively large property. EV charging stations need very little space and are very often located in tight spaced areas/neighbourhoods/parking lots where such huge signs would be unfeasible/unacceptable.

[@amolaksinghsunnerd4999]

@@MHG1023 well they could easily display the price above the charging stations so it can be seen from afar instead of driving up to the charger to see.

[@MacGyver1908]

Clever system! I hope we will see this here in Norway soon 🤞

[@johantonde3336]

Short and simple answer is that the electricity market is slow and therefore not relevant. When prices changing alot it will come. I wonder where Etrel got the payter idea from.....

[@vidpetrovic8907]

As a Slovenian, I am very proud that we have so many leading companies in charging technology, but we have only 3% of electric cars sold, becuse we have almost no incentives to buy them...

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Not killing the planet isn’t enough incentive?

[@bbpleg]

But if EVs were better than ICE cars, then surely you wouldn’t need incentives?

[@vidpetrovic8907]

@@bbpleg I think that the problem is that we have almost no hpc in the country, and people always complain that theywould have to wait 1 hour in the car to chrage it... Uneducated people, crazy expensive prices for evs and poor infrostrucute are the reason...

[@SirHackaL0t.]

@@bbpleg People don’t like change. We carry on using what we know. You use incentives to encourage change.

[@baranguler1168]

EU should force a standard so people can use one or two apps for all charge stations.

[@brandonsheffield9873]

This is genius. Paying by bank card will be a very big deal. This will help so many people.

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

There are also some payment systems of this kind at petrol stations which work very similarly. Such a terminal is certainly not wrong as a "backup". However, the standard should be direct billing via the vehicle account.

[@mrebholz]

Yes, should be one at every station as a fall back for people who lost their charging card/code or for foreigners.

[@TheHammaJoe]

There should be more automatic "handshake" between the car and the chargers. No need for apps, cards or other overcomplicated stuff

[@hakannil]

Yes, plug & charge is what you want: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118

[@shoarectube]

It says walk to station 02, you went to 05. Also, the single point of failure is not an issue, you can still pay by rdfid or app. I can also see how you can add 2 or 3 pos enabled charging towers in larger charging stations to add some redundance

[@ahuca117]

Yes, he used station 5 instead of 2. But from the whole video there was no other similar station in sight. So user error is arguable but a bad exhibition job is definitive.

[@shoarectube]

@@ahuca117 you are right, there was no other payment tower in sight. Not saying he is to be blamed..just pointing out the discrepancy and probable reason for the failure :)

[@itsbilln2178]

Will be mandatory in UK soon - possibly later this year. Most new UK charge points already offer this.

[@carlarrowsmith]

It has been mandatory for a few years now in the UK

[@puppet-head]

The cost of the card reader is basically zero compared to the charger, you should have a card reader on every unit. The actual benefit to the technology would be to detect a failed card reader on one unit, and direct the user to another unit to pay.

[@cruzdacostaa]

In the UK, 'Gridserve' already has the card reader in place on the motorways and ikea stores. Hassle free seemless payment, no need faff about with an app.

[@catalicos]

Yes, clearly this is very convenient. It would be even better if they made some kind of modules for retro-fitting existing stations, or something similar. There are many charging networks, some very small, which require an account and prepaid credit, etc. that are in different geographical areas. When travelling you need to stick with the ones you already know, or the whole process becomes very cumbersome. EU could (and should) make card payment a mandatory option for customers at charging stations... Another way would be to just display a QR code, for example, that you can scan and quickly take you to a secure payment page, on your phone, in the browser.

[@Cornelius87]

I think this would work best if the payment station was just that and not also a charger kind of like self ordering screens at fast food places. That way people paying don't have to encroach on other costumer's charging stalls.

[@adrianscarlett]

Instead of yet another design, standard payment methods and inductive charging needs to be fast tracked. All that's needed is a charging pad on the ground that communicates with android and apple pay. All interaction is done on the car display, with no need for an ugly box to host the screen, connections and interface SAE J2954 allows up to 11kw, and SAE J2954/2 is targeting WPT9 for up to 500kw Before anyone comments about wireless charging being inefficient, wired charging requires galvanic isolation, which lowers wired charging efficiency to a similar level of wireless.

[@mrmerm]

Best solution is login with PayPal, just like login with Google, so you won't need to enter any details, PayPal will take of all the payment/membership details. And we only need to approve through PayPal app.

[@Buju7777]

this is a very nice solution! I like it. All the charging network providers should use this solution!

[@Akinto710]

This should be absolute standard. Just like fueling up a ICE car. I live in Denmark, and sometimes drive to Norway and Germany. I have 13 different apps to try to charge... Some gas stations in Denmark now has started making normal payments possible at their fast chargers too, just like any gas station. It's one of the big reasons more people don't get EVs to be honest, because public charging is a mess. The prices fluctuate like 2-400%, you need multiple apps, accounts, charging cards, RFID chips etc. It's not a nice experience.

[@dragoscucu3128]

That's a really good idea. Allowing card payments is useful when travelling. I would pay a bit more for charging just to avoid installing junk apps on my phone.

[@der-e-wolf]

It will be mandatory by law in Germany for new charching stations (I guess from 2023 onwards). But I bet, it'll be more expensive then ...

[@erikholm9212]

I have notised in Sweden that it’s more and more common with card payment at fast chargers..

[@pbasista]

The claim that the charger and the payment terminal should not share the same internet connection because of "safety" or "security" is pure gaslighting. There is no reason for such a restriction. Simple payment terminals might have their connectivity options limited to the built-in cellular radio and they might be incapable of utilizing an existing internet connection. But that has nothing to do with safety or security. It is a cost-saving measure so that the terminal's cost can be reduced by e.g. $ 10. Also, many existing solutions share the same internet connection between a payment terminal and other devices without an issue: 1. Phones use the same internet connection for Google Pay or Apple Pay and for regular internet. 2. Retailers typically have only one internet connection to their store and use it for all their payment terminals and also for all their computers, IP cameras, sensors and other networked devices.

[@skblablablabla]

On top of that, these terminals could use a VPN tunnel to the payment service provider.

[@omLuan]

It's like the Cluster by Powerdale: a single controller for several charging points !

[@thorstencremer3435]

The industry missed the big opportunity to introduce a uniform payment solution for e-cars just because everyone wanted to do their thing. Now they are whining about having to build in an open payment system. Themselves to blame! It would have to be like Tesla, just plug it in anywhere and the rest works automatically.

[@ZEFElectric]

I top up to Ionity recently in Belgium. They display prices for different charging/payment option and pos terminals were installed on each of the charging stall.

[@t.a.5676]

Nice video, great charging station!

[@ram64man]

A monthly feel is negligible in long term monthly running costs , the data transfer per transaction is less than 2 mb so a , data only prices for sims can be as little as 6-8 euros per month to cover all usage and some plans even share data between sims that can easily be included in connection charges based on 30 days as most supermarket dash or office all day charging will recoup running cost easily

[@menthe885]

I would like such a station. :)

[@skblablablabla]

Why is such a solution so expensive? I think it could be cheaper, considering that the effort for the existing billing system is quite high compared to the actual cost of electricity. Charging card companies need to send out cards, bill customers, negotiate roaming contracts, advertise their cards, ... And in the end, often the same credit/debit card gets charged that one would use directly at the charger. Yes, that certified terminal might be 300€ more expensive than a cheap RFID reader for the existing cards. But that's probably not a lot compared to the whole administrational overhead this thing replaces.

[@RCdiy]

Here is an idea. Why not just use a credit card? It appears to work for gas stations but I haven’t been in a long time so maybe no longer?

[@Cornelius87]

Gas stations still take cash and you can buy a scratch off ticket with the change. Lol

[@DarrylTalks]

All the paid fast chargers change to free vend if the cellphone network goes out. So a failure of the payment method communications results in a free recharge. I went to a place where the charger was off the network and I got a free fill. But I had charged enough at another station to skip that one, just in case it was not working at all.

[@XXXXXX-vw6rl]

Same operation as gas station. One card reader for all gas dispensors.

[@tiro2041]

Most card companies charge up to 1,5% for each purchase, thats why most charging companies have tried their best to avoid the normal card payments. Even huge companies like netonnet will actually give you that percentage as a bonus if you use their invoice system rather than card payment, perhaps a system the charging companies should copy since they really dont want you to pay by card…

[@pmacgowan]

Thats why these units need a std 20a powerpoint as a backup

[@richardgoldsmith7278]

Just 2 pay stations per site should provide enough redundancy if all stalls can be serviced from either pay station. Also why not pay in the shop where there is one exactly like fuel?

[@RemmoSRednaS]

Allego has it as well. Finally. Still don’t get why EV-chargers don’t use DKV like with ICE-cars. Payter will be the next “DKV-solutions” I guess.

[@tonysanderson7741]

I'm not convinced with this system, 1) I don't believe it will bring the cost of charging down, 2) it's a single point of failure, 3) some people will have to walk up to it and pay, then walk back to the car to check the car is charging then back again if it's not. 4) There will be instances where a person may be confused and start charging someone else’s car who has just plugged in. I think there's better ways they could lower the cost of the actual chargers but more importantly need to figure a way for EV owners to get true benefits of a EV vehicle with less sinister unit pricing.

[@vb8253]

That should has become reality 5 years ago. I'm surprised nobody did such payment before. In Ukraine we have coffee machines with NFC paying for a long time

[@thomaseriksson3182]

Intressant! Smart!👍 Skulle behövas bygga ut massor av laddsatationer i Sverige..

[@firstbigbarney]

Why not a simple system with the car screen giving all information? The outdoor charging screen is a weak point and causes maintenance issues. These screens tempt people to vandalize the chargers. EV's already have a screen in the car where information on charger use can be stored.

[@sellesweden]

Is there any clever system for us who live in rented apartment houses. Some system where one could get charged on the apartments electrical bill?

[@KrzysztofC-1]

You can be 100% sure that when there is extra layer of another payment system/provider, they will take a cut of all transactions.

[@MortenB0]

I think the best solution is that if you insist using your bank card to charge you just drive diesel or gas and remain in last millennium

[@descendency]

I just don't get why this exists in the era of plug and charge (or whenever this gets implemented).

[@Cornelius87]

more options is always good

[@Go2Results]

They can use multi network sins and b2b they have really cheap rates

[@fritzstorp8357]

Would prefer a dedicated separate payment terminal instead of people all fumbling around where my car could be charging, as they might stop the charging etc

[@Cornelius87]

Yeah, they need to put the payment terminal by itself and not attached to one of the chargers.

[@moohdid6933]

Car charger?

[@andys844]

Not having card readers on the charge stations is just an excuse. Petrol pumps have had them for ages. It seems that charging operators overcomplicated their offering by trying to implement their own payment methods and make everything cloud connected without the resources to actually make it work reliably. Chargers should all display a simple /kwh price with simple payment methods and stop overcomplicating matters.

[@Benjamin_Jehne]

Charging stations shouldn’t be allowed to run without at least Apple Pay/Google pay or a credit card. The sytem right now, is absolutely customer unfriendly and a reason not to buy an EV.

[@FredStortelers]

The use of the extra Sim card is a bit of misinformation. It depends totally on the set up configuration of the system if the second Sim card is necessary. There is really no difference in our payments are handled as an a petrol station in a an attendant environment. To be able to talk about cost, you should know the exact details and differences in the various systems configurations before you can compare the cost.

[@havardh4912]

This seems too complicated and error prone. So makny people already struggle with sms and apps, now these people have to remember codes and locate the payment terminal. You see card payment terminals on every vending machine out there, so I dont buy the cost argument. Its all about customer lock-in, having people register accounts.

[@ccjh0806]

LOL if they can't even get 1 sample model WORKING NORMALLY just SHUT DOWN THE COMPANY LOL

[@victorseal9047]

Sorry Bjorn you lost me after one minute.

[@solarfan7958]

Too complicated and too expensive. We just need to have an rfid card that works everywhere, why do we have an EU.

[@leoesse9347]

Maybe someone can activate bitcoin payments for charging!!

[@danedane6613]

Show me mooore 😀😀😀

[@rpgfightin4ever]

paying by bank card is again replicating the experience of "stupid" fossil auto. It's rather no progress at all. Whereas data communication through charging cable already allows to transfer payment credentials to charge point operator. Plug'n'charge is a step in the right direction, but it should be even more universal process - as universal as the bank card payment is. Like, such bank payment terminals should rather be inside every car, or something like that. I think technically it's possible. From sofware point of view, such terminal (or user interace which replicates it) would be "powered on" only when charge cable is connected to proper charge point.

[@RoteLars]

I'm against payment over card becouse it's super easy to be frauded/scammed. And the charging price will be sky rocket high. Like Drop-in price on Ionity today with 8,40 NOK/kWh can easy cost 40 NOK/kWh istead and that is more expensive than fossil.

[@no-damn-alias]

You can also scam your charging card and I like the card reader. Eventually everybody then simply pays the same at the same charger. Germany now beginns to construct its,,Deutschlandnetz" and card reader is a must and a max price of 44cent/kWh DC which is cheap considering that average household electricity is between 33 and 36 cent/kWh depending who you ask

[@RoteLars]

@@no-damn-alias Sure, but you can find out where is it used and that can give video footage on a charger location for the police report and catch the theif.

[@no-damn-alias]

@@RoteLars and why wouldn't they do that on a credit card. I'd say police doesn't care about charging cards yet and you simply have to get it bblocked and get a new one. I don't mind a good app. Problem are bad apps which make people want to have a charging card.

[@b00nz0r]

Gross capitalism.