Evaluating Dragon Age II - The RPG with no role to play

[@olemgar6530]

I like to imagine the Mark of The Assassin was just Varric getting very bored of telling Cassandra his story, so he just decided to completely mess with her by creating the most non-sensical story and character possible, just to see how she reacts to that much bullshit.

[@griffinwittum5526]

That spinoff movie Tallis was in was actually a rough draft Varric penned at some point after his interrogation. He figured "well I have this character so waste not, want not.". He quickly realized that it wasn't any good and abandoned it to work on something else. Sadly someone found it, thought it was the best thing they ever read, and decided to finish it themselves. To very mixed results. Varric is currently suing them.

[@AzureRoxe]

Her mind was blown so hard from it that her entire model changed for Inquisition.

[@lastmanstanding7155]

​@@AzureRoxe truuueeee

[@FirreBat12]

As someone who played the Ariashok fight as a mage: Boy oh boy was it 90% running away 10% chipping away at his big as fuck health bar.

[@TotallyNotElPresidente]

Ngl, I replayed all the games last year, I played a mage Hawke...and when I got to the Arishok fight...yea I turned on invincibility. I was not about to do that fight a 2nd time in my life fair and square.

[@pativi6643]

I love how the cinematic fight of Hawke vs Arishok was so epic , and then in reality it involved my squishy mage running away from him around the pillars. Ahh, trailers.

[@Dogman415]

He was easy to fight as a force mage with frost magic. He has a lot of CC immunities but not to all of them!

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

imagine if game designer's actualy made Magic that was worth a dam

[@RagerQueen]

I'll give you better, I was playing a crowd control mage. My whole kit was literally unusable against one single boss enemy. Didn't enjoy the fight very much.

[@HisShadow]

As a mage I can confirm that I spent most of my time running away from the Arisok. Thank God for those pillars.

[@probablythedm1669]

I got stuck running around for 5 minutes the first time I fought the Arishok as a mage on nightmare difficulty. Then I saw some high skill combat by Arelexxx (m.youtube.com/@Arelexxx/videos) who had figured out the combat in this game and posted guides in the now defunct Bioware forums. Check Arelexxx's videos on how crazy fun the combat is, if you know what you're doing! (Keep in mind the videos are like 11 years old by now) The second time I fought the Arishok, I played a rogue and 1-shot him. It felt damn good and played out kind of like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iarGeqyLg7SAq6s The third time I crushed him like a bug with my mage. Goddamn it felt good. It made the intro CG fight look like a joke, because my Hawke just walked in there and left a smoking crater where the Arishok once stood. Seriously, the combat in this game is so goddamn fun when you know the combos that let you chain explode people and just drop nuclear annihilation on everything. It's like a completely different game! But the game is absolutely useless at teaching you how to become a combat god! It teaches nothing of the tactics, nothing on how to set up companions to trigger combos, how to build your character, it hardly even tells you that you can do combos for massive damage! Great combat but hardly anyone knows how to use it, because the game teaches poorly, so its ultimately a slog for most players. Real shame...

[@redhunter8731]

@@probablythedm1669 what are the major combos to crush everything without effort? I usually just Firestorm everything to death.

[@Syoubat]

I used the gravitational spells mixed with primal magic to pummel him easily :)

[@thetruefoxking2098]

When I bought him I use petrified we slow down spell lightning spell mainly

[@zxshadowxz]

Tactically deployed Mabari.

[@ravenroc1784]

They developed DA2 in 11 months. A miracle that they got as much done as they did. It is most likely why there is cave #101 and warehouse #2002 in the game.

[@samfire3067]

Mean while Fallout New Vegas:😎

[@christianlyttle8973]

​@samfire3067 New Vegas reused just as many assets (if not more) and had even more empty uninteresting environments that DA2, regardless of how good the writing and some very specific areas are. And even though the writing and dialogue and reactivity was good, the actual moment to moment quest design was unengaging as hell.😊

[@Tamaki742]

Yeah, EA mandates. It's similar timeframe as ME3 and KOTOR 2.

[@codysellers4151]

@@samfire3067 New Vegas is objectively an unstable mess that itself reused a lot of assets throughout the game. New Vegas typically gets a pass on it though because the writing and RPG elements are fantastic, and are pretty much the pinnacle of what makes Fallout fallout, even when compared to 4 and 76. Coming from someone who likes DA2, DA2 cannot get the same pass. Questionable writing throughout the game, that awful dialogue wheel nonsense, and the fact that most of your choices don’t ultimately matter to a great degree, all make DA2 unable to overcome its flaws like NV does.

[@woodlefoof2]

@@christianlyttle8973not to mention the foundation of new Vegas was already there from fallout 3. They didn’t build it all from scratch. Still impressive to be sure, but a weirdly glossed over fact when people praise the development time. DA2 was made from scratch as far as I’m aware

[@LoredanSunstrider]

Another detail that I don't remember you mentioning. When you face the Blood mage who kills Hawke's mother, you find various letters from a certain O. This "O" is Orsino, meaning he very much AT LEAST knew about a dangerous crazy blood mage running around killing women trying to recreate his wife, and AT WORST he was a blood mage even then before the final battle

[@djjb2000]

Actually if you sided with the templars when confronted Orsino admits that not only did he know about the killer he actively took steps to cover it all up. It is implied this is the reason he got away with it for so many years and Hawkes mother would have lived if Orsinos attempt to prevent the templars prosecution which only made it worse in the end.

[@AustinWalkerN7]

I never realized this, that’s really interesting and makes me dislike him more.

[@Wexter0083]

​​@@djjb2000yeah Orsino is honestly a massive asshole and I side more with Meredith because of it. At least you can justify Meredith's actions that she was being influenced by Red Lyrium, as for Orsino... Nope he was a disgusting and twisted man from the start who used the mages for his own ends.

[@suleymanbabak1973]

that's pretty much confirmed in-game: Orsino was friends with that psycho.

[@neoqwerty]

@@suleymanbabak1973 Validates my mage Hawke's decision to side with the Templars and Fenris a LOT.

[@bigboncho]

Someone should make a whole game out of the unreliable dialogue wheel. Imagine a BioWare rpg where your character is fully unhinged and you have to try to do damage control as much as you can. I want single, vague dialogue options to end up in romance options and shit like that

[@jacksmith3148]

Like a version of Disco Elysium except you zoom one more layer of abstraction out.

[@demomanchaos]

Like FO4's "Sarcastic" option?

[@bigboncho]

@@demomanchaos I think it’d be more like we’re the character’s manager, but we never know exactly what they’re going to say, and it’ll always have much more serious consequences than it should

[@bruhbruh4329]

You'd have to very carefully sell and manage the idea.

[@bigboncho]

@@bruhbruh4329 Not if the replies were funny and frustrating enough haha If every outcome was going to disappoint the player and that was the expectation, it’d just be fun

[@EdBurke37]

There literally was no reason for Orsino to go evil in the Pro Mage ending. The developers have admitted that they originally designed it so that you only fought him if you sided with the Templars but you fought Meredith no matter what. It was decided that the mage ending needed another fight and so Orsino was sacrificed.

[@MannerdDesert7]

makes sense to me, the templars massively outnumber the mages even with hawke and templars are specifically trained to counter mages, most of the mages had died and he had lost hope and just wanted to get back at the templars. Also, the fact that he allowed a known blood mage to conduct experiments shows he wasn't as innocent as he made out.

[@chriskoloski32]

They could have had any evil mage do what orsino did. Or hell have a mage get cut with the red lyrium sword and become corrupted with the lyrium blight

[@johnathanera5863]

@@MannerdDesert7 no. It makes literally zero sense lol. And is poor writing.

[@Kira11259]

@@johnathanera5863 no brother, it is fine to dislike a decision, but calling it “poor writing” is unfair, Orsino had every reason to want to slaughter as many templars as possible.

[@MannerdDesert7]

@@johnathanera5863 care to elaborate?

[@user-ps6do9lu3n]

One thing I wished you had touched on more was the rivalry system. It's the one thing I wish was in the other games because god damn it I just want the ability to challenge my companion's views without them throwing a fit and leaving. Also it really changes how you view them. Especially Anders, rivalry with him shows just how much time he is losing and how often Vengeance takes over - it even suggests that he wasn't in control when he made the bomb. Also you got a couple things wrong with the character stories - Merril's eluvian isn't a 'telephone', it's a 'door'. Fenris was not a part of a dalish clan, he was always a slave. "I don't know anything about inquisition, but it wouldn't surprise me to see corypheus show up there" LMAO please I can't wait for an inquisition review.

[@razorflossrazor2937]

As much as I dislike da2 that rivalry system is something that I want to return. It was amazing being able to challenge my companion and not have it adversely affect my game.

[@marinary1326]

I do think that rivalry is an interesting idea that ought to be expanded upon and made individual for each companion in a future game. Like, if it's reasonable to do something that would make a character hate you so much they'd leave, then by all means let the player drive them off. But if the companion has other reasons to stay, or if they disagree on, say, some personal issues or methods but not your overall objective, they could go down more of a rivalry route. And have different characters go through character growth differently based on friendly/rivalry relationships. Maybe some characters are inclined to eventually change their views if challenged as a rival, or they might become more set in their ways if the player just keeps enabling and agreeing with them. And the different relationship types affect your ability to romance someone or the route the romance goes down... it's just an idea that has too much potential for DA2's development crunch and could reach greater potential in a different game. I do find myself wishing for a rivalry system sometimes playing Inquisition, for example, when there's certain companions you either just agree with or yell at till they hate you, rather than getting to challenge them and engage with their point of view while also getting them to engage with yours.

[@user-ps6do9lu3n]

@@marinary1326 exactly! Its frustrating that Bioware makes the effort to make situations nuanced but doesnt give you the opportunity to respond with nuance. Its just agree with everything, make a joke, disagree with everything. The characters can have complex discussions is banter but we cant. Da2 isnt perfect but it makes the attempt with the rivalry system to show you can disagree with your companions and still have a relationship with them without them leaving. I think it would lend further nuance if you could actually influence their decisions for the better, and if it could affect their personal questlines - especially when you look at characters in inquisition, like you cant challenge seras internalised racism at all. They just end up hating you instead of engaging in a discussion.

[@trustytrest]

@@marinary1326 Nah, make rivalry only a system for specific companions. Some companions might enjoy the adversity and like being at odds with you more than they enjoy being your friend. Other companions might be too antisocial or ideological and refuse to cooperate with you if you're too far against them. Like if you want to side with a templar or cleric and you're constantly committing heresy, they won't see you as a rival but rather an enemy and not want to work with you. If every companion stays with you forever no matter how much you antagonize them, it's just too trite to work. There's no consequences for your actions if you go against someone's entire beliefs and all they do is get a bit sassy but still follow you to the ends of the earth.

[@SorowFame]

@@trustytrest personally I’d have friendship, rivalry and a third affinity which is stuff they plain disagree with. For instance with Fenris going against Tevinter is friendship points, helping them for practical reasons is rivalry and supporting slavery is straight up disapproval that he’ll eventually leave for because it’s a dealbreaker for him.

[@Leifreon]

Actually Merrill's obsession with the mirror stems from the Dalish Elf Origin in Origins, where a member of the clan was lost through one of the mirrors, she's convinced that fixing the mirror will be able to save him. Why she got that idea locked in her head is unknown and how she'd not give up on him possibly being alive after so many years I can't think of. To be honest I feel it's a bit of shoddy writing, but it's a better motivation than just "It's part of our history."

[@TheBronf]

i agree that it is bad written since it was clearly said during that whole origin that your character will die with out the involvement of the warden (which does happen if you dont pick the elf dalish origin),

[@Kalenz1234]

Not to mention the mirrors are one of her people's great creations. Something that even the magisters of the Tevinter Empire weren't able to replicate or understand.

[@damienjohnson3450]

Actually, she is in that origin and will remember your character and their actions if I remember correctly. This had some cool ideas, but man was it a stinker.

[@zoomunzoom5893]

They axed a lot of “cannon” events from origins though so who knows. The mirror at the Dalish camp was repaired. So either they ignored that in 2, or the writers were bad enough to try to sell her obsession as “my people’s history”. It’s the latter in all likelihood

[@Zinlain]

yeah especially since the other elf(not the one who would be Dalish Warden) turned into a Darkspawn from coming into contact with the Eluvian... then again that is probably PRECISELY why she chose Blood magic. In Origins DLC we find a Grey Warden Blood Mage who has lived like a 100 years in the old warden keep. Found a way to stall the eventual Darkspawn-ifying effects of the Grey Warden process and even how to enhance grey wardens via blood magic.

[@evergreenvg]

One of my favorite things about this game is how companions like Isabella and Anders have a major impact on the story. I hate how many RPG companions just come along for the ride - just agreeing or disagreeing then following you anyway. But having these companions actually make decisions, good or bad, that force the player’s hand really makes them come to life, imo. Even better if the player can influence these decisions. Loved the video! Can’t wait to see inquisition!

[@tbastet1387]

The only reason the first enchanter goes the blood magic route was because ea said "there needs to be another boss for the mage route" unfortunately

[@eggie_boggie8212]

I also love the detail of companions commenting on selling their stuff. I don't remember the context but I do remember Aveline being very bitter that I sold her shield, the shield she got from her husband because Hawke needed money. It kinda broke my heart

[@MishraArtificer]

She mentioned that to my Hawke, too, even though her shield was still in a chest in my house...

[@vladsapojkov1014]

@@MishraArtificer I had to reload to bring that shield with me in the inventory. Felt wierd.

[@eggie_boggie8212]

@@MishraArtificer oh wow haha. Guess the devs didn't implement her knowing it's still in a chest. Weird.

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

She gives the same dialogue if you just unequip it and leave it in your inventory

[@facundopareja]

Ah yes, Dragon Age 2. The game where every criminal rents the same 3 locations.

[@comyuse9103]

its a time share!

[@HadesWTF]

Well...Hawk keeps showing up and putting the place back on the market.

[@acleus]

It's a timeshare of crime. A Crimeshare, if you will.

[@wizgi7201]

Its a very cheap rent, the owners keep dying after all

[@chadmagnus5850]

The landlord must be making a killing.

[@agenteggboy9526]

I fucking love dragon age 2, even if it objectively has many flaws. It's probably the most connected I've felt to a fantasy game because you're actually living the life of this person. The companions aren't just npc's that tag along to help you complete quests, they're your friends, and they hang out together. You meet many people across the story and, as it takes place over many years, you see how their fortunes have changed, the characters aren't just static blocks that wait for you to give them quests. You have a family who all have different goals and motivations, and genuinely care for Hawke. The writing makes Kirkwall feel alive, even if the presentation and level design isn't at the same level.

[@californiansniper2133]

Dragon age 1 is better

[@xbrizzie]

Still, everything you said is better in the first game unfortunately, since it should make all of the original one but improved.

[@Talyrion]

@@californiansniper2133 I don't know, Dragon Age 1 has a rather classic hero's journey to save the world. On the other hand, Dragon AGe 2 is much more intimate. You play a character through a few years of their life, see how they build themselves a new home... and watch how everything eventually crashes and burn. It's not always done perfectly, but I found that angle pretty rare in most fantasy games, and I at least respect the effort. In the same way, companions in DA1 are your usual fare. They have your usual personal quests, character development and sometimes romance, an it's all pretty well-written, but for the most part, their life - at least during the game - revolve entirely around the player, as usual. Meanwhile, companions in DA2 are more like... people you know, but that have lives outside the main character, and that will actually spend most of the time away from them than with them, just joining for a few dramatic parts. It's an entirely different dynamic, and once again, not one done perfectly, but it does feel like a novel approach. Basically, I feel like DA1 is an objectively better game, while DA2 is a more original one (at least in terms of narration, the gameplay is anything but) - not always for the best, but I at least can respect the attempt.

[@rosalind1635]

At least we can all agree Inquisition is by far the worst game in the series.

[@ryanscoffeehour6404]

Just started playing a few days ago and 100% agree. However as fresh eyes in the franchise, the problem long time fans have range from minuscule to nonexistant for a new player. All personal gripes established by their own personal experiences, which there is nothing wrong with.

[@Eval999]

It's actually amazing how good this game is considering how short of a dev time they were handed.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

For me the game is "good" when you consider they had absolutely no time to work on the game, while also working on DLC for the first game. But as a game itself, it still really is lacking. It's unfortunate EA just assumed you could shit out a game in essentially a year like you can sports games.

[@RockoEstalon]

@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken From what I understand it's not that they assumed it and more that EA wanted Bioware to convince them Dragon Age was worth keeping. Despite how well Origins was received and that it sold pretty well, the game was 9 years in development and switched it's artistic vision many times, which means that it was a financial loss. Bioware's original idea was this whole Mage-Templar dynamic and the Darkspawn and Grey Wardens were added because one producers said the game needed an enemy you could kill over and over. I guess that's also the reason why the original protagonist and the Grey Wardens were demoted to background characters, the writers were just not interested in that aspect.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

@@RockoEstalon, EA did assume. An RPG doesn't get pumped out in less than 1.5 years, and I guarantee you not a single dev there didn't ask if they could get more time than that. I even recall a Dev in an interview saying they wanted the GW to be like Shephard (unsure how this would have worked out given the different endings) but scratched it when they weren't given enough time to make the game, much less storyboard it.

[@RockoEstalon]

@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Oh yeah I know about it, then they wanted Hawke to be the franchise's shepard but the character was not well received until many years later.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

@@RockoEstalon I don't recall Hawke being not well received, more than it was people wanting more Grey Wardens and wished it'd have followed the GW from the first specifically, and specifically having issues with the reused assets and button mashing.

[@fernandopessim]

Anders merging with Justice changed both of them. He straight up says that the merging corrupted him just as much as it corrupted Justice.

[@adeptdamage3669]

Still badly written.

[@disas6112]

@@adeptdamage3669 yeah, and you're the greatest writer ever I guess?

[@adeptdamage3669]

@@disas6112 You don't need to be a chef to say a meal sucks.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

​@@disas6112You don't have to be the world's greatest chef to point out a steak is burned.

[@Keram-io8hv]

​@@disas6112No, but on the other hand no one ever hired me

[@baddragonite]

"Drakestone and a crystal made of manure and urine" Yknow if you know your chemistry and history this is actually a huge hint to what Anders is actually planning Never realized that til now (Basically it's similar to an old recipe for gunpowder)

[@DragonessYT]

The sad thing about Anders is that if you rival him he tells you at the end that Justice forced him to destroy the Chantry. He didn't want to destroy the Chantry and he begs you to kill him.

[@ruppelspoopels]

If you rival him you're actively trying to separate justice from him. You make Anders into an abomination.

[@tinytitmouse7019]

He always was though. An abomination is whenever any spirit merges with a mortal, that’s why Wynne will ask the warden if they would have issues with an abomination if they were still a good person because technically she is one too. As friend anders is reassured merging was a good idea so his mind is sealed

[@ruppelspoopels]

@@tinytitmouse7019 I thought abominations were characterized by madness

[@tinytitmouse7019]

@@ruppelspoopels maleficarum would be a better description for that, using magic to hurt or control other people

[@ruppelspoopels]

@@tinytitmouse7019 i thought all mages and magic not directly under chantry control were maleificar? Which would make Anders a maleificar but his bonding with justice had nothing to do with it.

[@disk3001]

DA2 is my "Bad game I can't help but appreciate" I will forever remember when my young self was faced with the Mage/Templar debate and having to choose a side and seemingly having world shaking consequences going forward in the franchise (not knowing of course that it wouldn't matter in the later games) It still has pretty good moments and characters, I don't mind Hawk&Pals adventures and I REALLY like the way they told the story. Especially the time skips are very unique and its awesome seeing some story line span across years, something not many games do

[@jeffbezos2960]

Dragon age 2 is objectively not a bad game game. I think you the lowest score you can reasonably give it out of ten is a 5.5. it has way too good of writing and characters to be a actually bad game. Personally least favorite of the series and I give 7.5 but definitely worth playing and has fantastic elements. Be proud of your love for this game and don't let anyone convince you it's worse than it is

[@thesupreme8062]

​@@jeffbezos2960dragon age 2 is a bad game full stop.

[@jeffbezos2960]

@@thesupreme8062 that's an extremely intelligent and well put together argument

[@thesupreme8062]

@@jeffbezos2960 one of my best

[@tinytitmouse7019]

DA2 is like the ratty pair of shoes I should probably throw out. Sure, it’s ugly but it’s kind of comfortable to me.

[@terrenceswiff]

I'd never played Mark of the Assassin but the immediate "she was given a role that she was bad at" seems insane because the whole point of the Qun is that you're given a role you'll be good at. That's why they're so successful as a society.

[@Wraithfighter]

What if, perhaps, the Qun isn’t a hyper-efficient state and is, in fact, a mundanely bad one blind to its own prejudice and ignorance? You know, just like every other culture in the franchise?

[@Zinlain]

well for the kossith(horned grey people) they literally groom them from birth to the role they named them for. which is why the Matriarchs running the whole eugenics program is so important. I am guessing they just arent so good at assigning roles to outsiders they cant literally build from the ground up.

[@neoqwerty]

@@Zinlain The Ben-Hassrath are supposed to have more flexibility and discretion than someone in the Qun who isn't part of that group (Iron Bull is generally what you WANT your Ben-Hassrath to be like; flexible enough to solve problems the stricter dogma of the Qun strains under), but as a converted Ben-Hassrath Talin is understood to not truly be part of the Qun; she's pretty much just a cheap weapon and extremely expandable, and as long as she still has more successes than failures she'll be used. And once she doesn't, she's going to get magic lobotomized and converted into a laborer.

[@billjones3963]

Dragon age origins is leagues above 2 when it comes to graphics, how do you turn darkspawn into such a silly ugly unthreatening enemy

[@SubliminalTunes]

@@billjones3963I still like 2 but I think all of its shortcomings can be brought back to the devs only had 1 year to develop it opposed to origins 7 year development

[@dorothymorrigan4251]

is it weird that he does a whole section of returning character cameos, yet doesn't bring up that Cullen whom was not only in the first game as a minor character during the tower snd mage origin, but also plays a larger role in two and a major role in inquisition

[@turquoisemaple]

it seems he hasn't played inquisition yet, so thatd explain it. i also was thinking about cullen in that part tho lol

[@TheNick1536]

He said he doesn’t know anything about Inquisition during the Legacy part so…

[@Raffelito]

Tbh i wouldn't have realised Cullen is the same guy if i hadn't gotten it pointed out to me, he looks so different and is a super minor character in Origins. Also Salt hasn't played Inquisition like the other reply said

[@Syoubat]

@@Raffelito actually if you exhaust cullen's dialog whenever you get to talk to him in da2 he'll talk about his time in the da:o tower

[@RockoEstalon]

@@Raffelito Cullen was given a makeover because for some reasons a lot of fans had the hots for him and were asking for him to be romanceabl since the first game.

[@domocan6877]

My favorite take on the Keeper getting possessed was that this was the demon’s plan the entire time. That it wasn’t feeding on Merril’s pride in elven history or confidence that n her skills. It was feeding in the Keepers pride. That blind belief that she always knew what was best for the clan for Merril. She would be the far more tempting target as while Merril was desperate but cautious the Keeper could be more easily manipulated into surrendering her body by using Merril as leverage.

[@lastmanstanding7155]

I suppose that's why we can call her stupid

[@OhLadyMeg]

“It’s a nice night for a evening”remains one of my favorite lines of all time 😂

[@Ritchian]

I have a lot of conflicted thoughts on Dragon Age 2, but there's one thing that kind of clicked in my head while listening to the part of the review on the companions that makes me give the game a bit more credit. The presenter discussed how compared to Dragon Age: Origins companions, all of Hawke's companions were basically on the same-ish moral wavelength. I think that was intentional and actually fits well with the story DA2 is trying to tell. The Warden in Origins was trying to put together an army. He wanted an elite group who could help him defeat the darkspawn and end the blight. That's all. That means accepting competent and willing help where ever he could find it (or even conscripting unwilling help if he had to). A drunken dwarf? If he can put the pointy part of an ax into some darkspawn, sign him up. An assassin who was just trying to kill him? Sure, why not? A child-murdering giant who is an agent of a foreign power? Get him out of that cage and a sword to swing. The general he just spent two thirds of the game fighting against? Hell yes. What's the point of killing off that kind of resource? We got an angry horde of monsters on our doorstep. Hawke, on the other hand, isn't forming a world-saving super team. Hawke is mostly just making friends (or rivals). Of course he's going to end up with either people who mostly share his views, or people who he has a grudging respect for (and vice versa). Aside from Hawke's surviving sibling, Aveline (who joins during the escape from Lothering, so is already a friend when you reach Kirkwall), Varric (who starts out as a business partner) and Anders (who is sought out for his Deep Roads knowledge for the expedition), his companions are just people he's met and helped out who then stuck around. Of course Hawke isn't purposely going to hang out with someone he thinks is an irredeemable bastard for six years (Anders doesn't become irredeemable until the end of the game). Even when it comes to characters who end up as rivals, there's plenty of reasons given why that character and Hawke might still meet up. Even if for Anders, it's just to use a rival Hawke for his own ends.

[@quinnmarchese6313]

thats a very interesting point--reminds me of the differences between companions in Fallout 3 and Fallout NV as well. In 3, (save Fawkes) they aren't guided by morals or anything, rather curried favor from the player. They don't like you, and they don't even really care what you have done (even your dad is like "you blew up megaton? im very disappointed in you, now lets go to the purifier"). Paladin Lyons for example only gains a respect for you after either A, you die in the purifier or B, you have the DLC installed where you survive (or Fawkes does it for you). In NV however, most of those guys have personal vendettas, valid reasons for not siding with one faction or another, and also care who you are/whom you represent when you approach them initially. the fact that Arcade go just say "fuck you" and leave if you deal with the legion or how Veronica genuinely develops a friendship with the player over the course of trying to help the Brotherhood was huge back then.

[@benl2140]

"Of course he's going to end up with either people who mostly share his views, or people who he has a grudging respect for" The fact that the game presumes to know what the Player Character's views will be is one of the biggest problems a lot of people have with this game.

[@Zinlain]

@@benl2140 sure but I think part of the idea is Hawke is a mostly solidified character. You get to chose his atittude but not his overall morals. Which is also kind of a point against this game when we have Shepard being able to be distinctly Paragon or Renegade across a whole ass trilogy.

[@moonlight2870]

​@benl2140 no it ain't

[@sgt.bonkers8706]

@@moonlight2870 Yes it is. It's maybe not your problem, it certainly isn't mine either, maybe it isn't even the majorities, but a lot of people get turned off by stripped player agency. Sure, you had some limited choices deciding on the end result of some quests, and occasionally could decide on who dies and who lives, but your character was set in one of 3 stones, his background was, too, And many story bits felt more like a tell-tale story, with fixed outcomes no matter what you do. One of your siblings dies. The other becomes estranged, either by becoming a grey warden, a templar or getting snatched by the them and put into the mage tower. There is no way to appease the qunary and let their leader live, because you fight and kill him no matter what. You can't save your mother, regardless how hard you try. Many parts of the map stay closed off or empty, unless you are in the right story chapter, and then close off when you're done. And to add insult to injury, you can't fail. The story is told by varric in the past tense, so no sacrifice, no looming threat of death, you're going to survive and walk the cursed earth you created with all your (unavoidable) mistakes. Sure, your hp can reach zero, but to continue, you have to quick load and go from there. The story doesn't care. You can't add more harm or prevent it, even if you tried. And while the story being told is certainly an entertaining one, filled with deep lore and interesting characters, the only motivation to replay it would be to take another personality, and see those dialogue lines you other 2 personalities weren't getting. But the outcome stays the same. I played good and sarcastic, and from what little difference it made, I didn't even want to waste my time with a rough personality, because the game had no replay value to offer. As I said, doesn't mean the story was bad. But once you've played it, you've seen all there is aside from minor details and some changing dialogue lines. Your fate, and that of your companions is sealed. You can help them to come to terms with their conflicts, or let them break at them, but outside of these moments, it doesn't matter. They stick around, either as friends or rivals, and then the game ends.

[@StrongestTurnip]

There is *just barely* a templar companion: Carver, assuming you don't take him into the Deep Roads, joins them in the same way that Bethany becomes a Circle mage

[@mrmoviemanic1]

I love Bethany but I do think Carver gets more of an arc for his character of a sibling rivarly.

[@neoqwerty]

@@mrmoviemanic1 Carver with a mage Hawke honestly gets the best character arc, be it his Warden or Templar path. Bethany is just so... meh. Also Leandra's attitude just... hurts all the more, and makes all the more sense alongside with Carver's bitterness. Note: I may be biased because I discovered the Fenris rivalmance with a mage Hawke during my Templar Carver playthrough after a normal romance'd Fenris with a mage Hawke and Warden Carver, so both of my Carver-surviving playthroughs were stellar. (Also if you go and bring Carver without Anders, just. the sheer guilt in that scenario, it's beautiful.)

[@Gmoney-us9pi]

Salt may not upload too often, but when he does, it's worth the wait.

[@dragon22214]

His types of video's take Time and effort I really help he doesn't get burned out

[@yo3theguys980]

@@dragon22214 I mean he puts a lot of love into his vids so I would assume he loves making these type of videos

[@donovanromanski]

@@dragon22214 He's got thousands of people waiting for his input on dead/old games, I think that's enough motivation for him lol

[@itsmantras]

Getting one 2-4 hour video every month is a decent upload rate. I feel you tho, he's one of the few creators I'm happy to see every upload from

[@cambridgeanalytico9201]

Nothing but quality

[@shagohad3]

As an interesting fact, Anders wasn't originally going to be in Dragon Age 2. His role was intended for Velanna, the other mage companion from Awakening. There was a cancelled Awakening style expansion centered around an Exalted March. It would've been focused on the red lyrium plot. specifically the chantries reaction to the games ending, and the qunari causing trouble in the free marches. Hawke would've gotten help from both Starkhaven and a pirate armada. The player would've been able to explore more of the Free Marches and found out more about Sebastion's family. I recall hearing Varrick would've died during it but I don't know if that's true.

[@MishraArtificer]

They cancelled it because they wanted all hands on deck learning how to use the Frostbite Engine to make Inquisition, at EA's insistence.

[@stardusst]

you would also be able to marry your love interest.

[@bmagada]

She would've made far more sense and would've interacted with Merrill a whole lot better and could've fleshed out her story better and maybe made her take the place of the sister she lost........that's a wasted opportunity there.

[@shagohad3]

@@bmagada I'm not sure why they ditched her for Anders. Maybe fans liked Anders more?

[@badmanslayer04]

@@MishraArtificer Mark Darrah said on a stream of his fairly recently that it was the only other option they had as the engine they were using was already old when Origins came out.

[@smergthedargon8974]

One of my big problems with DA2 is that it's ultimately about the Templars vs. the Mages, but you never actually really get to see some sort of mage tower like in DA:O. You don't even meet the leaders of each side until the end of act 2!

[@OG-ColorfulAbyss.]

Let's not forget the big plot of Inquisition was supposed to be global war between the mages and normies and that was shoved not only under Corypheus' shit but even way under several shitty side quests.

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@OG-ColorfulAbyss. Haha and the mages that you see fighting the Templars in the wilderness are 'renegades' not even part of the larger conflict. Bioware was really trying to cut ties with the main plot of DA2 lol. Everything that carried over from the main story of DA2 was essentially resolved by the end of act one.

[@danielscher1614]

I’m really excited to see what Salt has to say about Inquisition

[@theprmstrful1]

Been 2 months and no video. :(

[@jacobbruen9231]

It’s one of my favorite games ever and I could rip into its issues and simultaneously praise it for hours so I hope he does the same

[@GusBried]

@@jacobbruen9231 I loved the story of Inquisition, but daaaaamn did I struggle to finish it... Even with the things I did like about it, IMO the worst of the 3

[@xaga8794]

@@jacobbruen9231 I dunno man. It has some neat moments but overall the story ain't that good. Something tells me salt will sound like a harpy so much he screams in disappointment

[@RabbitShirak]

@@xaga8794 I agree with you. It has some fun things and concepts. But man, the problems…..

[@chozengaming8547]

Can't wait for the 8 hour Inquisition video.

[@RIlianP]

Hm if you choose the templars it is revealed that the First enchanter knew the serial killer who snuffed Hawks mom (something that was obvious from some notes found in the layer for anyone with an ounce of deductive thinking) and not only did nothing to stop him but helped him in his research by giving him books from the circle. His only defense was "I didn't want to make mages look bad", which was hilarious, you mean you couldn't just hired someone to get rid of the problem, like Hawk for instance which is already treated like the towns errand boy/girl. I mean he might have been your friend but also was constructing his own meat puppet from several women, geez. And when a mad mage serial killer was revealed finally that helped the mages a lot, for sure, but it made me switch my support to the templars in the final decision because leaving Anders aside no mage in this game, with the small exception of Bethany, if she lives gave me any reason to trust them. Also If Hawk is a mage his surviving sibling is his/hers brother Carver who acts like a spoiled brat with an inferiority complex which is annoying but better than the bland Bethany. And since mage Hawk is the default canonical state for the third game its carver that is the surviving sibling in that game.

[@Thegamingladygnome]

I am so happy that someone else noticed the issues with mark of the assassin, When they first came out I got into fights over how her character made no sense and sounded like bad fan fic but was always told I didn't know what I was talking about. It was nice to have someone else state it too.

[@Leifreon]

Oh you absolutely knoow what you were talking about. Talis is a special snowflake of a character and as Salt said, the DLC is nothing but a joke and it's only called "good" because of fanboys. Though it does honestly help understand the Qun better with the contradiction that is Talis.

[@25thSkye]

I couldn’t even finish Mark of the Assassin because Tallis was so insufferable and I’m a pretty hardcore dragon age fan. Nothing against Felicia Day, but that character was straight up awful.

[@OccultEclipse]

I mean, people have been whining about her terrible characterization since the release of the dlc in 2012. I know because I’m one of them lol

[@TheMrDewil]

@@25thSkye I, for one, never even started that DLC. For me, if something contains even a trace amount of Felicia Day, it has to be avoided. I know it sounds like an overreaction, but I simply don't like her in any capacity, even if I don't know anything about her, except that she's a terrible actor. I lost count of how many Supernatural episodes I had to skip simply because she was there, ruining something that wasn't good anymore to begin with. So, in a way, I get how you feel about it.

[@TheOurobouros]

I always interpreted Anders + Justice = Vengeance as an allegory for how good intentions are warped by human weakness. It works as an idea, but the execution fell short.

[@JJJBunney001]

It does work pretty well though, showing that no matter how noble your intentions are it's your deeds that matter. Especially the Chantry explosion and your companions reactions

[@adeptdamage3669]

@@JJJBunney001 Nah it was rushed and contrived.

[@getthegoons]

I personally hold the opinion ethics are meaningless in magic settings because that guy can set me on fire with his mind and therefore is a constant threat that must be contained at all costs. All that Mage Rights shit rings really hollow when Virulent Walking Bomb, a spell that rips you apart from the inside and causes you to explode so hard that anyone hit by the Shrapnel that used to be your skeleton is also ripped apart from the inside and explodes, is apparently totally OK by Chantry standards. Especially when you get into the fact the mages just apparently randomly get transformed into Abominations and have the ability to just consort with them in secret on a daily basis.

[@werwolfnate]

One thing the lore in origins goes over is there really is no core difference between spirits and demons. They're abstract reflections of the real life thoughts and feelings. They're powerful, but easily warped by new experiences. Many but not all demons you fight were more benign concepts that are essentially traumatized by suddenly becoming corporeal.

[@wojta610cz5]

1:16:00 Eluvian is not a small thing 😂, it is literally one of the most important elven artefacts.

[@leonardobattistel4595]

2:12:38 After gatherings the ingredients, when Anders asks you to distract Elthina, you can pressure him to tell you what his plan is, while he will not reveal it, he admits the potion was a lie, and you can even refuse to do the quest both at the start and at the middle point after he asks you to go into the Chantry (in addition to the possibility of warning Cullen, a Templar, that Anders is plotting something); the games gives you plenty of possibilities to ring your internal alarm bell way before the final conversation with him.

[@davidwhidden9337]

It's also optional.

[@lfroncek]

Despite its shortcomings, the whole hooking your mom up with a serial killer plot line was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in a game.

[@asimovvomisa4040]

Is that not what happens to any NPC the MC romances in an RPG ? (unless on a pacifist run)

[@NadineDinatjie]

I remember my 15 year old self being so shocked I needed to go stand outside for a minute. Bruh.

[@donyates7300]

i just finished that quest last night. felt so bad.

[@reffa2858]

Doesnt he kill her? Its been so long, I forgot.

[@chumbucket9442]

Felt so bad first time around cos both siblings died too and Hawke was all alone. Still sad even now.

[@mercenaryTendencies]

Meredith going crazy from the idol always felt like such a cop out. It would be far more interesting for her to have reached the place she did from a series of 'harsh, but necessary' decisions rather than 'No it's just magic corruption lol'. You can argue that some of it still was, but the presence of the idol casts doubt over all of it

[@ghostofalltime4934]

I mean Loghain didn't need an evil sword to make him do bad things. He was a misguided man, and he could even give you a reason for what he did. It is much more interesting than Meredith.

[@trustytrest]

@@ghostofalltime4934 Just another example of how the writing in DA2 fails at everything DA:O already did

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

i liked it. she probably thought she could use the idol to give her a power boost against templars and it did at the cost of her sanity and making her even more hyper aggressive against mages as a group. and it’s a great segway into da inquisition.

[@connorharnage6697]

​@@trustytrestIt fails in some ways but succeeds in others. I still think Dragon Age II has better party members

[@adeptdamage3669]

@@connorharnage6697 Nah Origins had a much stronger party. The only real standout in 2 was Varric.

[@GreenDinoRanger]

To be fair, Salt, the DA2 trailer of Hawke vs the Arishok was pretty damn awesome. I'm sure it drew a lot of people towards the game.

[@thesteelrodent1796]

perhaps, but anyone who buys games thanks only to a fancy trailer need to reexamine their decisions

[@treswolves5512]

@@thesteelrodent1796Basically every gamer watching e3 years ago when all that was shown was a cool cinematic trailer lol.

[@TheDirtyBum900]

I played a mage in da2 specifically for the spell he used to kill the arishok in the trailer

[@Aerowarrier]

The Arishok fight is actually pretty fun if you’re a rogue since they have actual movement options and stuff so it’s more strategically dodging hits and stuff than just running away or wailing on him

[@JJJBunney001]

Yeah I loved it as a dual weilding Rogue with stuns and backstabs. Felt really fluid

[@Aerowarrier]

@@JJJBunney001 that’s definitely the best way to fight him tbh

[@deaj8450]

I think dual wielding rogue is the most fun way to play this game, though from what I remember I also really enjoyed playing a blood mage.

[@Aerowarrier]

@@deaj8450 tbh it really is the most interactive at least. I will say that being a spirit healer/force mage who specialized in up close combat was so much fun when I did that tho. Those close mage attacks are honestly just really fun

[@byzantiphile7630]

It has taken me literally years to realize that Fenris is simply Wolverine from X-Men. Metal put inside his body, the pain of which caused him to forget things, while hunting the man who created him, and a name based on an animal. Jesus, I'm dense.

[@Zinlain]

... HOLY SHIT. Years ago i said that Anders is just Ghost Rider(blacks out as a Spirit of Vengeance goes to murder those he deems deserves it) but i never connected Fenris as Wolverine... I wonder if they fantasy versioned any more Marvel characters...

[@Davidofthelost]

⁠@@ZinlainIs Avaline then Captain America? Merril Scarlet Witch? Varric Hawkeye? Isabella Blackwidow?

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

Re the Keeper, there's a fairly popular theory that the demon was actually corrupting *her* instead of Merrill because she's a more powerful mage. Like you said, her actions don't make sense at all (trying to coax Merrill back while spreading rumours about her to the other Dalish) unless you read it as the demon influencing her mind. It's pretty much the only way to make sense of the inconsistent writing in Act 3.

[@trengilly01]

I'm certain another year of development would have made a huge difference. They certainly considered letting Hawke have more influence over major events and the repeating assets would have been eliminated. Where DA2 really shines is in the companion dialogue/stories . . . here the player CAN influence events, and how the story turns out for each companion is directly determined by what you do. I also really liked how they had three different personality tones for Hawke . . . I didn't even know this was a thing the first time I played through. Hawke really feels like a different person depending on which personality you play.

[@SinnerChrono]

Laughed so hard near the end when your talking about how every other mage becomes a blood mage or demon over a stubbed toe. Lol i actually cried from laughing

[@SaltySparrow]

Arcane Warrior being cut was an absolute heartbreak.

[@GearShotgun]

I feel that one. One of the biggest disappointments was the lack of new specializations or returning specs from Origins and Awakening.

[@dj_daem0n]

Sorry mage, no melee for you. :(

[@TheLordofMetroids]

They cut it because Melee mage is op... then they turned around and made Melee mage the most op class in Inquisition. Good Job Bioware.

[@dj_daem0n]

@@TheLordofMetroids Well, if you build your gear right it's got the most potential in Inquisition. Especially if you create an elemental blade as your casting weapon.

[@MasudaOfKorriban]

​@@TheLordofMetroidsoh no an op optional class in a singleplayer RPG.

[@heathmoore1004]

Another frustrating aspect when siding with the mages is how every single one of them turns out to be a blood mage at the end in the final chapter...

[@10JudgeP]

Worth noting you can romance characters you are rivals with and it is much more interesting than friendship ones a lot of the time

[@thedespense3778]

it depends on the romance some of them felt down right abusive at times as a rival like oof. more interesting for sure though.

[@10JudgeP]

@@thedespense3778 TBF i have only done Merril which i think works very well. But Salt in general seems to think rivalry is bad, but it's not, it's intended for you to friend and rival different people and max rivalry is as good as max friendship in a lot / all cases

[@thedespense3778]

@@10JudgeP I can see that. It’s nice to have the option to romance characters without agreeing with everything they stand for since there isn’t really a companion I agree with everything they believe. But I think they are all meant to be polarizing to show more complexity of morals.

[@readyjoe6427]

Fenris romance as a rival mage is one of the best romances in the game, breaks his world view hardcore and is super well implemented. Wish salt would delved into that as that fact alone makes fenris pretty great.

[@bmagada]

I actually liked doing the rival romance with Isabella more. I used to call it the "making a housewife out of a hoe" romance path. lol

[@davidschulberg8584]

Man, I did the hardest grimace when I saw Sister Petrice's self-righteous mug for the first time in years. Forgot about her.

[@Bunge16]

Varric was the best thing to come out of this game, and secret boss in Legacy was neat. Also, fun fact: in a series of hidden codex entries throughout the game, it is revealed that the Veil is so thin in Kirkwall that the demons can basically possess anyone they want, which is why this plot point comes up so much. It’s still kind of silly, but at least they tried to put in an explanation.

[@rowantritton8659]

Worth noting that the First Enchanter was helping the necromancer who was stiching together a bride and in return gained the knowledge to become that big corpse monster. You could actually find notes linking the two and in truth, the FE was covering up a lot of shady stuff, which I'm sure had no impact on the Knight Commander's growing paranoia :D

[@JJJBunney001]

Your comparison between ME3 Citadel and this games DLC was pretty good. Citadel was a celebration of 6 years of characters and relationship, Mark was kind of trying to do the same thing 2 years before that but without the same care and didn't have the time for us to really care about Tallis. Especially because she just nopes out of there and is never seen again. the story has basically nothing that carries into the rest of the series either

[@ZellyTheFangirl]

One thing you skipped over with the Fenris round up is that you actually get a few unique dialogue options with him if you play a mage, and if you go the friendship route and romance, it really serves to open his perspective further by challenging his mage prejudice. In my opinion, a fenris romance as a mage is one of the most interesting romance paths you can take in this one as he grows to care for something he originally hated. #NotAllMages. I joke, but it's accurate.

[@tinytitmouse7019]

His romance text in DA Keep is great “Fenris has captured Hawke’s heart. Thankfully not in his usual manner.”

[@javamikii]

this is how i played it, and i ALWAYS swear by it! one of the most rewarding romance experiences imo

[@fitzviandraduivenab2790]

Fenris x Mage hawk and Rivally romance merril is so good in this game

[@illithidlore]

Tallis was basically the beginning of the end for the quality and consistency of the Qunari.

[@Wolf10media]

Explains my confusion with Iron bull and my Qunari Character in Inquisition. I wanted options that basically say "The Qun compels me to tell you to fuck off and not take your side quest."

[@WeIsDaTyrantz]

@@Wolf10media The kossith inquis is vashoth, born outside of the qun, whereas a tal-vashoth is someone who was born into the qun but rejected it. Big, big difference.

[@xx4rch4xx]

Tallis was so unlikeable with her combative dialogue, mental gymnastics concerning the qun and condescending humour and the ending was unsatisfying. I wanted to kill her but couldn’t.

[@Miros_Place]

@@WeIsDaTyrantz Qunari who have abandoned the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth and live away from the Qunari homelands if they can escape. Tal-Vashoth often work as mercenaries, while those who are born outside the Qun are called Vashoth. Although Vashoth are not technically rebels against the Qun, Qunari still considers them Tal-Vashoth. Source:Iron Bull tells an Inquisitor Adaar (a Vashoth): "You're not Qunari. You're Tal-Vashoth. World of difference."

[@FlyingwithFire]

yeah they go from being super strict and rigid society to being accepting of gender identity that confused the hell out of me

[@benedictjajo]

Anybody notice how your characters' attacks are so fast and flashy but NPCs attacks are still exactly like they were in Origins apart from spells and special moves? At first I was so irked by it, to the point I'd stopped playing it. But once I finished my first playthrough, I finished it a couple of times and thought of it as an embellishment to the story told by Varric. It made me enjoy the game more and not think about it anymore and proceeded to finish the game more than 10 times.

[@onefromdust581]

Thats probably because combat was changed in the late stages of development to feel more actiony. Also that completely fucked up the diffculty thus forcing the developers to adapt wave tactic to the enemy a.i more enemies show up during the fight.

[@AzureRoxe]

Funny enough, combat for Mages was different in Inquisition's gameplay trailers, but for whatever reason, they changed it back to DA2's style.

[@foxiestofbuns3727]

One of my favourite things is that if you sell Avelines shield she got from her husband she actually has angry dialogue about it later in the game, although that same dialogue is said if you put the shield in storage which I mean I guess makes sense

[@drkirbkennethkirby7634]

I didn't mind lack of environments, it was more the lack of creation. The storyline and voice actors were amazing as usual

[@Shirkules]

If Alistair was exiled from the wardens he shows up drunk at the bar and it's honestly pretty hilarious from what I remember.

[@satanamogila9251]

Ah, yes. People being devasted and turning to alcohol to deal with it is hilarious 😂😂

[@NerdHerdForLife]

@@satanamogila9251 Correct, it is funny.

[@justinianthe1st790]

@@satanamogila9251 When they needlessly turn to alcohol cause they are mad we didnt kill someone who was objectively an asset? Yeah, yeah its pretty funny.

[@darkmantlestudios]

@@justinianthe1st790 Objectively? Feraldin's worst tactician. Too busy getting his king and his greatest assets against the darkspawn killed. what an asset.

[@justinianthe1st790]

@@darkmantlestudios Considering how he deliberately backstabbed his allies? Yeah, I'd say the context is a little different there, compared to actually helping now. Especially when he is always helpful when alive. As opposed to Alistair needlessly risking the likelihood of literal armageddon because I didn't want his petty revenge. Alistair needlessly made his life worse of his own choosing.

[@therandomartist3201]

One of the very few things I was frustrated about DA2 was how hidden some of the Companion armor upgrades are, including only able to buy certain armor bonuses at certain shops at certain times.

[@tinytitmouse7019]

Some upgrades are also so late in the game, like Anders’ only rune slot, that it’s basically useless. Varric’s last upgrade is only available if Nathaniel is alive in your imported world state.

[@milesespadoto6359]

this was SO fun to watch, i genuinely cant wait for when you play inquisition

[@fuckyoutubecomments7530]

Considering how huge Inquisition is compared to DA2, we’re in for a long wait haha

[@CoAndCoLaptopAccount]

I just bought inquisition so I can play it before he releases his video on it.

[@wojta610cz5]

@@fuckyoutubecomments7530 yeah, i dont think he will do Inquisition + the DLC's in one video, it would take ages.

[@fuckyoutubecomments7530]

@@wojta610cz5 I reckon he can fit all the dlcs in one separate video, unlike Fallout 4 but maybe I'm wrong. He might even skip doing collectible stuff and some side mission stuff too, there's certainly a lot I missed in my first play through of DAI.

[@otakon17]

24:08 you actually meet Isabella in DA:O, she's the Duelist trainer in the main city though she looked a LOT different then. 39:39 I think you're wrong there or misinterpreted something because their title LITERALLY means "dangerous THING". They're treated as living weapons that could blow up in their masters faces at any time. It's basically the reverse of the Tevinter Mages, they're slaves. I think they were going with making elves more cat-like in their features, with the bigger eyes, sharper features and long bridged noses. Make them more than just "pointy eared humans dressed in fur, bone and leaves" basically. 1:32:25 Sebastian is AWFUL. The DRIEST, most BORING $8 I ever spent and NOT EVEN A UNIQUE CLASS. ANOTHER Archer Rogue who's VASTLY inferior to Varric both gameplay wise, story-wise and character wise. And at the end of the game, you're "forced" to choose between him or Anders. Let's see, the ONLY HEALER or a bad copy of an already existing character mechanically and the most bog-standard piece of hardtack I have ever had the displeasure of purchasing. After the *amazing* writing and integration of Shale with her myriad combat roles, unique perspective and dry wit, whoever wrote and planned Sebastian failed *miserably*.

[@RK-cj4oc]

Shale was not integrated. Shale was a day 1 DLC. Meaning the game was made with Shale as 1 of the companians and then they cut her out after. Same thing with Javik in ME3.

[@SageofStars]

@@RK-cj4oc I think he meant integrated into the story and gameplay with regards to Shale, which Javik was too. Basically, there were a load of events and scenes that took their presence into account, meaning they had a real stake in the coming events, and would make commentary on just about everything that happened around them. Dumbass in white, however, only made comments when he HAD to, and even then, some of his lines are more generic than others, barely fitting the scene they were in, with some of his choices being really obvious, honestly, from a moral perspective, which, even in DA2, was not the norm(Though it is more common than in DA:O or DA:I)

[@hishamjalal9078]

Salt did mentioned Isabella being the Duelist trainer from Origins. Its in the companion section if you actually finished the video. Dumbass know-it-all.

[@otakon17]

@@hishamjalal9078 I must have missed it, my mistake. I'll double check and edit the comment.

[@fourthmatchflame]

i cant believe varic made Cassandra pay 8 bucks to tell her about Sebastian.

[@Bi0mega]

The party members having a default, unchangeable look was actually asked about at a Q&A panel at a convention around the time the game came out. I think it was lead writer, David Gaider, who was asked why that change was made. He pointed to some DA2 cosplayers in the front row and asked if they would stand up. He thain said that it was for their benefit, it was a change made 'for the fans'. Which, to be fair, is true, just that it's a very, very small subset of fans. The rest of us can get bent.

[@ZhangLiao07]

Calling flemeth gilf central makes me feel much less weird about the awkward attraction I had to her lol

[@G59forlife.]

Nah that is actually kinda foul though. Morrigan is where it’s at

[@artydomi2466]

For all the hate this game gets I can see what Bioware was going for. A refugee who wanted to keep his family safe...loses them one by one as events progress and they are powerless to do anything to stop it leaving them more and more alone. Had this game gotten another year or two in development, it would have been a fantastic one I'm sure of it.

[@violetparr1604]

DA2 is so much better than Inquisition and I'm tired of people saying its not

[@JasonLee-gs1bn]

If only EA didn't force BioWare to release this game after less than a year

[@GoatBoat22]

@@violetparr1604 I 100% argee I hate dragon age inquisition feels like a chore playing it again

[@justinianthe1st790]

I adore every game tbh

[@JewTube001]

would have needed another 3 years to be on par with DAO. it's such a basic RPG with hardly any locations and a poor overall plot.

[@chriskoloski32]

Bethany and carver have some interesting character developments depending on what happens to them. Bethany is happier at the circle doing what good she can and properly learning magic in ways she couldn't before. As a grey warden she becomes more of her own person but at the cost of her becoming more of a jerk even to her sibling. Carver becoming a Templar, while by his own choice still holds deep resentment for his family as he was the only child born without magic so he ironically didn't feel special to any of them and the entire party hates him if he's around during the dlc quests. If he becomes a grey warden he becomes more humble, he realizes how he's been acting and is proud to serve a purpose for saving the world and thanks you for giving him a second chance, plus all the companions like him better, even Isabela who flirts with him a lot in the dlc. But maybe that's just cause he can't get her pregnant and he can't get any of her diseases

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

I think Salt would've enjoyed Carver more than Bethany if he'd gone with Mage Hawke. His development is more obvious than Bethany's, especially at the end where he reconciles with his older sibling

[@Aerowarrier]

I still find it a little weird that some of the voice lines of Justice in the Origins DLC definitely made it sound like he would’ve merged with Nathaniel if he were to go with anyone, not Anders. It’s like they were planning on going one direction then changed their minds between the two things

[@merethvalera839]

I'd love to see you do a review of Jade Empire with all of your reviews regarding biowarw games, its a messy, neglected gem of a game with a fantastic story, setting, and lore. Hell, to this day Open Palm and Closed Fist are some of my favourite types of alignment because of how specifically fleshed out they are beyond being good and evil.

[@RabbitShirak]

Palm and Fist are both intriguing. Unfortunately the game mechanics were too simplistic for it.

[@xeagaort]

It’s literally just good and evil with different names

[@merethvalera839]

@@xeagaort man did you even play Jade Empire? one of the first things you learn about in the game is that there's good people and evil people for both alignments

[@mattyice31]

Varric is the best companion hands down. He could talk an arch demon out of starting a blight.

[@neansath]

I would pay money to see that conversation go. "Mr. Archdemon, I think you're handling this Blight thing the wrong way. I mean killing millions of people had its charm I'm sure but think of the alternative options you have."

[@Aemond2024]

Varric was my rival.I liked Oghren better.

[@zurkarnainwan]

Watching Salt's video is like seeing your childhood friend once a month. It's so pleasant and welcoming.

[@kewu313]

About the serial killer: the biggest reveal in the questline is that First Enchanter Orsino knew about his researches, furthur pushing the point that neither sides in the conflict was innocent. Still that doesn't make the quests interesting. Also being friendly or rival with companions can change how the story develops (although the end is always the same), Anders being the most impactful.

[@NarutoxinZ]

"TURN ON THE TV THEY HIT THE PENTAGON!" omfg I was not expecting an OneyPlays referfence lmao

[@larad9180]

Honestly, I feel like playing as a mage helps a bit with some of the weaknesses in the story. Carver’s a polarizing character, but his relationship with Hawke can have some actual development, and his involvement in the mage vs. Templar conflict feels a bit more personal.

[@georgeh4171]

You have no idea how much I have been looking forward to this video after you made your Dragon Age Origins video!!!!!

[@TrinSpin]

Oh god, as soon as I heard Tallis' voice, I felt a deep instinctual hate bubbling up kinda like Salt did for Hau in Sun/Moon. After looking the actress up on IMDB, everything made sense: she played Charlie in Supernatural. Charlie was guilty of all the same problems you had with Tallis.

[@demomanchaos]

She played the same type of character in New Vegas, but in that game it works due to the nature of the game itself.

[@misternich4935]

@@demomanchaos which character did she play

[@angelicaboden4358]

@@misternich4935 Veronica. The BoS Scribe companion that's also totally not like other brotherhood members & have the same personality as most of Felicia Day's characters.

[@Khordin]

Well that is because she doesn't play a character she plays Felicia Day as said character, like Nathan Fillian. She has no real acting skills and just gets by because she is a good looking nerdy girl and when she does shine it is because the character is what she herself is and works in that world.

[@bmagada]

I mean honestly Felicia Day has no real talent to speak of. Gaming nerds will make an even semi attractive nerd girl money if she leverages it in any way. She just plays Felicia Day in everything.

[@emperorwai]

Fun fact: Qunari were supposed to have horns in DA:O but the hardware limitations(or something like that) it was backburnered, and for only one character, they just made Sten hornless and added that qunari without horns are destined for greatness. Also, ogres are children of qunari broodmothers, hence the horns and size of them. Also also- Spoiler: Your best buddy Sten becomes the new Arishok with dope dreads and a burning need to subjugate Isabella for her obvious crimes against the Qun. I preface that the guy is your friend as 'Sten' is a title, not a name. Go read the three comic series that has Alistair, Varric and Isabella teaming up to do stuff, it's great.(I have the hardcopy with all three that also has margin commentary from the artists, writers and various other people. Again, it's great)

[@illithidlore]

Yeah, I think it had to do with all the doors being made already and the horns made him too tall. Same reason Shale was made smaller.

[@diegojose4173]

It was because Qunari would have to have their own helmets, and modeling helmets just for Sten was not worth the effort.

[@ArcAngle1117]

Wait is King Alistair Canon?

[@emperorwai]

@ArcAngle1117 From what I remember from a podcast, interview or article(???) the original writer basically stated all the world states are canon. I wish I could remember where I heard it from but it was from David Gaider. But the books have their canon while each player has their own.

[@ArcAngle1117]

@@emperorwai That just sounds like a cop out to me

[@chriskoloski32]

As a side note it's fun to remember the blight in origins lasted one year. ONE. The last blight before lasted like 2 decades and the first blight lasted hundreds of years. If fereldan was messed up after only one year, how bad was the world in the other blights

[@baddragonite]

I remember I played this on the 360 when I didn't have a consistent internet connection meaning I couldn't update the game. So I had a glitch where every time my character leveled up he would move slower and slower in combat til he literally snapped into position and got stuck in every combat encounter forcing me to play with the other characters. I turned it into a joke that my character was actually just too busy hero posing the whole time and stealing credit for the other party member's work before I finally got the update. Lol

[@CharlieKellyEsq]

I love these comfy short analysis videos on games that I've spent hundreds of hours in

[@Exaltable]

You might have missed some of the depth in the rivalry/friendship system. It’s seriously the best part of the character writing in the game. Let’s you explore pretty different routes with each character and choose the dynamic of hawke’s relationships. It really supports the fact that you know these people for 5 years in the same city and let’s you define the friendship that would develop instead of giving you a “do you like me” meter. Seriously some of the best friendships are rivalries in this game and change their arcs drastically. Also does a good job of punishing Hawke’s that don’t stick to a set of principles around their group. Characters like Merrill, Fenris, and Isabela are more enjoyable to me as rivalries that get them to mature and stop being so self destructive.

[@TaliZVasTyria]

Isabella: "I like big boats i cannot lie" Me: "no other captains can deny" ...... i mean it's catchy

[@WarChicken78]

I think the biggest problem were the time constraints of the Devs. Having varied environments and the ability to make complex "trees" for many playerdescisions to branch out differently over a full game and have those different scenarios voiced and animated is a huge workload and timeconsuming like hell. I bet, the people that worked on DA2 are quite torn about it. On one hand they are for sure prowd of what they have managed to build in such a constrained timeframe but at the same time sad, because if they had more time it could have been so much more then what we got here. DA:O took 7 years to make into what it was in the end. Thats over 5 Times a period long compared to the time they had for making DA2... Even it pales absolutely in comparison to DA:O, it's still a wonder, it got as good as it was in the first place under those circumstances.

[@themagisterian644]

I only ever played the game once, and didn't have any dlc, I played as a mage and took blood mage as a prestige class and it always felt weird how I would use magic in front of the templars or blood magic around anders and it never mattered, and was always ignored. My choice of class had no impact on the game outside of how I made things dead

[@DangerSmoog]

This will forever be the most conflicting, bittersweet and confusing game in my memory in terms of how I feel about it. I simultaneously love it and have fond memories of both playing it the first time AND replaying it, but those sit right next to those same feelings of boredom, disappointment at some of the lack of choice and ABSOLUTE ANNOYANCE at the same cave over and over.

[@JaelaOrdo]

The one thing about this game I absolutely love is how much more the Qunari and their culture are explored in it. Also them actually having horns like they were originally supposed to in Origins makes them look awesome.

[@danielortman2527]

The decision you have to make at 15:10 is what soured me on bioware. I actually got up from my console had had a good long think about who I'd work with, it seems like such a big deal. The mercenaries are friendly with the establishment but seem evil, while the rogues seem like good people but are literally criminals. Picking between the two of them would have huge reprocussions on how my character would live and interact with the city! Then I come back and make my choice signing up for a whiole year? Then the game cuts to black and is like HAHA ANYWAY TWO YEARS LATER DONT TALK ABOUT IT. I stuck with the game for a little while longer but I could never really engage with it, or anything that came after it.

[@LordBloodraven]

Hawke's mother dying, no mater what, always bothered me. Hiring Orana (the elven slave you can hire in the quest The Bitter Pill) should have given you an opportunity to save Leandra. She could have worked as Leandra's handmaid and remained close at hand, warning Hawke of Leandra's kidnapping well in advance or warn Leandra away from the serial killer when the particular flower was sent to her.

[@smergthedargon8974]

25:48 That's how I feel about the Qunari in Inquisition. They looked rad in DA2, but then they turned them into "elf with horn"!

[@velvetthunder8732]

I legit can't handle this coincidence. I recently finished Dragon Age Origins and rewatched your review today. I want to play the entire series through and was wondering when you would do Dragon Age 2. It is creepily crazy how I finished the review today and a few hours later you release this. It's like destiny... That or you live in my walls.

[@blackenedwritings]

Could you say "Hi" to him for me?

[@minimalthyme_gaming9886]

Damn same thing happened here, and with the Fable series too, I guess he's just omniscient.

[@blackhat4206]

Statistics are amazing. 500k people subscribed, so a few are bound to be playing something similar at the same time. Makes you wonder which of the several similar commenters I’ve seen actually has Salt living in their walls or attic. 🤔 Is it coincidence, determinism, or a man in the walls? Kind of disturbing how many cases there are of random people secretly living in occupied residences without the homeowner’s knowledge, so there’s a slim chance there might actually be some dude squatting in your walls or crawl space. 😅

[@coletonparks8324]

Its 2:30 am in south Korea but fuck it, lets throw this on and see where it takes us.

[@-SRM-]

Sleep when we're done fighting the Darkspawn!

[@nathanielbrown5791]

As bad as this game sometimes is. It does feel like it’s set in the same universe as Origins. Inquisition feels like it’s from an entirely different genre

[@Sethisalive]

I figured out why I like your game analysis. You critique the game design choices or flaws, punching up. You don’t criticize the mechanics in such a way as to make your audience feel dumb for enjoying something you don’t. And you sprinkle in a lot of light hearted humor. You’re a positive person in the end I think, even when critiquing a game

[@larad9180]

Yeah, it’s nice that the critiques don’t devolve into cheap potshots for the sake of “humor”, which is far too common

[@gownerjones]

42:00 Fun fact: You can do a side quest involving Thrask who has a mage daughter turned abomination. Afterwards, renegade Hawke can blackmail him to keep you silent. A little later, when the quest at 42:00 comes around, you get a letter in your mail from Thrask, calling you a friend and acting like you never did that. When you get to the cave with the apostates in it, Thrask doesn't even acknowledge what you did either. He calls you a friend again. Then you get a dialogue option saying "Did you call me here to pay up in person?" and only then does he acknowledge that we are in fact not friends. But then he goes "But alas, you are the only one in the city I can trust..." and it's back to "friend".

[@craigamills7276]

God damn I love when salt uploads.

[@ljman100]

God damn I love your comment

[@jjforcebreaker]

Don't cream your pants.

[@angelganon8213]

Isabella is the one who taught you the specialty class for the rogue in origins

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

among other thing's (ˉ﹃ˉ)

[@hippegast12]

Duelist. And she got a recolor :p

[@JJJBunney001]

Salt mentioned that

[@angelganon8213]

@@JJJBunney001 yeah I posted this before I finished the video

[@riemaennchen]

Merrill and Isabella are also from the first game. Isabella is sitting at the Pearl and you can get the Duelist Specialization from her. And also a threesome if your Romantic Interest is up for it.^^ Merrill is actually a party member. Although only if you start as a Dalish Elf and only during the second part of the intro. edit: Okay he did mention it during the Companion section of the video. He left out the threesome though.^^

[@vladsapojkov1014]

foursome even (depends on hardened Leliana tho)

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

I was hoping he'd mention how *different* Merrill is in DA:O. She's pretty no-nonsense, the complete opposite of the manic pixie blood mage

[@JJJBunney001]

You can actually have a 4some with Isabella and Zeveran if you've hardened (lol) Allister or Leliana

[@jonetgames]

Nice bit of trivia is if you did Nathaniel Howe's sidequest he shows up to help you in the final fight against Meredith, Cullen too if you've helped him.

[@FentonSteele]

The Dalish Keeper is possessed by a Pride demon because she's too prideful to realize her own shortcomings.

[@sophialambert2616]

This game has its good points and bad, but 1:37:00 is reminding me of one of my biggest complaints- demons are everywhere. It no longer felt like a big deal to face one when every other mage is apparently a secret blood mage summoning demons who can be trounced in a few minutes. Which got even worse in Inquisition with Pride demons frequently showing up as mid level mooks. *sigh*

[@boobah5643]

That Sorting Algorithm of Evil stuff would make more sense if you were playing the same character in all three games, but you don't.

[@JJJBunney001]

It made sense in inquisition due to the fade being easily breached and the rifts everywhere. Demons weren't being bound or summoned so it made sense they were weaker

[@sophialambert2616]

@@JJJBunney001 in some ways, yes, it makes sense. It's a rough travel that twists the spirits and weakens them. But there being multiple fights where there are multiple pride demons in that fight- previously established to be the most powerful and conniving of demon types? Lore wise, why are there multiple pride demons coming through that one point? Why are they grouped together, when they'd naturally veer apart because they each have dominance issues and don't want to share potential prey? Why weren't they paired up with mobs of a bunch of lesser demons that they were commanding in interesting ways instead? It reeks of "because game play demands this to seem a challenge and this is the laziest way to up the difficulty". Just toss increasing numbers of pride demons, who in this installment are now dumb and raging brutes, like reskinned, overgrown Darkspawn ogres who have been given lightning whips. And if we want to get down to it, it also further erodes Solas's supposed endgame motivations and Dreadwolf's suspected plot. Because along with supposedly caring about the fate of the elves, he supposedly cares almost as deeply about the fates of spirits and them being warped into demons. We see this in dialogue and his personal quest with the wisdom spirit. What is tearing down the barrier between the world and fade going to do? Slam them back together, and the sudden merge is going to be apocalyptic not just for mortals of all races, but for spirits as well, turning them into demons en masse from the direct and inescapable exposure to so many panicking humans. It makes no sense. It is clearly counterproductive to his aims, and more than a few minutes thought and weighing in the smaller scale but constant examples throughout Inquisition would be realized. Solas isn't a stupid character, even if he's prideful and headstrong. Unless he's flat out lying about his plans in Trespasser, the narrative is falling to pieces because the world's internal logic is being steadily gutted.

[@Ilwenray85]

​@@sophialambert2616 I thought what Solas was trying to do was to turn back time, which will destroy the actual Thedas as we know it, with all the people that will never be born in consequence. Because the only way to fix his past mistakes, is to not do them to begin with. But that also means that in his mind, no matter how many people he kills or sacrifices along the way, because they won't exist anyway, it doesn't matter in the long scheme of things, maybe if he remembers he would consider it his penance. And the future he is imagining would be worth that sacrifice in his head. If they pull a different narrative and plans than this _undoing my mistakes with time travel shenanigans_ I don't think it would work at all. They would all be dumb, not to the same level as his supposed intelligence, for reasons like you point out. They could surprise me with something well put together, but... I doubt it.

[@sophialambert2616]

@@Ilwenray85 why would you think Solas is going to try time travel, when he never says anything to indicate that when telling the Inquistor his plans and what resources he's been amassing? DAI used it as a circumstantial plot device, which was honestly a stupid thing to do because it fell into all the worst cliches of time travel- but they also made it fairly clear that was all it could be because of how limited it was. From what little was shown of the rules they've set up for such magic, it would be impossible for Solas to go back several thousands of years to when he first imprisoned the Evanuris and erected the barrier to the fade. It is way too far back and the magic would fail. Dragon Age has conveniently retconned details when they later decide they don't like them, but as it stands, Solas is stuck in the relative present day to try enacting his plans; with perhaps jumps in time that would be, at maximum, a couple years in either direction from his starting point, if he got together the right things needed to do such travel. And while the writers were willing to tap time travel as a plot device in a limited scope, I don't think they'd continue doing so because it's such a sticky subject to try navigating coherently and opens up a huge can of worms with "if this person can do it, why haven't others to stop them or for their own aims before", and you end up in a great big mess of plot holes and writers resorting to "it happens this simplistic way because I said it did." It's a cheap cop out that writers have been heavily criticized for many times, even in recent popular literature and movies, and I don't think DAI writers want to deal with that shitstorm.

[@joeslickback]

"When you press a button, something awesome has to happen." "Button, Awesome"

[@roguenbauld]

Wow I'm doing a playthrough of this right now. I had no idea yesterday when I hoped on your live that this would be your vid. So happy. Also just observing something since you are a lore pursuer. Did you knew that the mage human (archetype) for origins has the last name of Hawk's family? Yep it's Amell. So I thought this was so cool I went back and replayed through Origins just to pick a mage. And there are mentions of this in the lore here (imported save), which I tought to be rlly cool! Anyways thank you for another amazing vod!

[@JJJBunney001]

Yeah the warden and Hawke can be cousins which is kinda cool

[@joshuapatrick682]

now that I am thinking about it, it seems like there are only 200 actual people in all of Thedas and by the end of the series you will have had all of them as a party member at some point.

[@grantwilson4506]

On my first playthrough, I never recruited Isabella on accident. Never actually visited the tavern. Well, when I got to the big Arishok confrontation, the story just couldn't progress. I had to run the whole game again lol. I liked the game though, the Mage v. Templar build-up during Origins and this game was awesome