EVEN MORE Orchestration Hacks (5 Quick Tips)

[@bertlochsinspirationforimp4902]

5 tips? It's more like endless tips in less than half an hour! Thanks, I learned a lot!

[@dbmusicproductions9181]

This one video is, to me, as valuable as an orchestration book. For the zillions of people composing on a computer with sample libraries these tips about instrument strengths and tendencies, about writing interesting music for all to play, these tips are so much more valuable than most books provide. This is a good video to keep on the “shelf”.

[@johnmcallistermusic]

Yes!

[@KrystofDreamJourney]

BTW : to all of you who view Anne-Katrin’s videos : few years ago I purchased an orchestral score template sets for Sibelius and Finale from Cinesamples. I am not sure if they still have it available, but everything is in those templates. Correct fonts, huge time signatures, layout for score and parts, even sizes of sheet music paper for printing. All according to L.A. Hollywood film scoring standards. And yes - violins 1 and 2 (with divisi) on one sheet etc. Everything that Anne-Kathrin talks about here you have in those templates. Priceless... Thanks for those brilliant videos :-)

[@sprkymrt]

I will add - for those interested, that Alfred makes a pocket-size book that has all the instruments, ranges, tonality and characteristics in their Essential Dictionary of Orchestration, and I believe they also have a book that has the fingerings for the instruments, also another pocket-sized book. Very handy to have on hand.

[@PaulHirsh]

Very inspiring. I have a piece where flutes and piccolo are commenting with a sicilienne jig in 12/16 over stately chords in 3/4 and the conductor flatly refused to perform it. Works really great on computer. So your cut and paste idea makes it finally possible with real instruments - at least on record.

[@m.kostoglod7949]

Somehow they made Monteux do the Rite.....

[@CuratorOfRealities]

The best demonstrations of instruments I have found here on KZbin have been the ones by members of the Philharmonia Orchestra around 2013, nearly all are as good or even better than any orchestration book (not necessarily to say the books should be abandoned, of course).

[@TheCyberMantis]

I just found you. All I can say is... you are a musical genius. This rabbit hole is DEEP. And you own it.

[@DMerkel]

Great quote: "You're going to get what you deserve ." Truer words were never spoken. // Great tips, explained well, Anne!

[@AndreasRavizzoniSongsForYou]

I’ve been messing around with orchestral arrangements for making music covers. Watching your videos reminds me I’m just a child on orchestration. OMG!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Ha, one step at a time, my friend. No one was born a master and I too am still learning on every project.

[@mariomj4535]

Same here! These videos really helped me with my covers! I’m working on a cover right now so I’m happy that this video came out today!

[@inwex8350]

Right?

[@ingonagel7169]

Time is money. Thank you for pointing this out. If you are sitting in orchestra or writing for orchestra you can quickly forget how much every single minute of recording time actually costs. Even for small projects. For the fellows who didn't organize a recording yet here a stash of things coming into a recording minute: The rent of the hall, mics, cables, instruments and more The recording technicians and that studio Your wage, times the amount of musicians. Conductor composer Administration of the production. You are so quick to get a frightening €/minute rate. Great video!

[@inwex8350]

Thank you so much on the description on real instrument dynamics, limitation when writing a mock with virtual instruments!

[@curtjacobs8520]

I could watch this all day.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Great video, Anne-Kathrin! Especially a great basic point about avoiding complex keys for film music. That's something many developing composers don't consider.

[@juliocanche7822]

owo

[@KrystofDreamJourney]

Agreed 100 percent!

[@joepriestle1024]

I love the relaxed yet knowledgeable way she records her presentations ("I've got s**t to do"?). Very easy to understand.

[@dsanj4745]

"Not every day, not every week... I actually have shit to do." Instant love!!

[@geroldwaefler9485]

Its all so true about the Instruments and theyr limitations and owen peculiarities and owen characters. I am professional Violinist and studied Filmcomposing by David Angel. He have give us the hint to learn at least one of the other Instrument Familys. In the end i have practised and tryed out EVERY Instrument from the whole Orchestra und played also some of them in Chambermusic for Instrument demonstrations at Musicschool. (Flute Oboe Clarinette Bassoon Saxophon Trombone Viola and Cello at Musicschool Demonstration Ensembles, all Instruments in the same Session) I love very much your Videos, your knowloedge and your composing ! Its impresses me also, you worked on Samples Librarys and you are also audio technicaly so much professional.

[@jefskott99]

#3 tip was invaluable. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

[@AynenMakino]

I really love these! I get that you don't want to only be doing these, of course, but I sure am grateful for the ones you do make!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Glad to hear that!

[@bovineking8927]

Wonderful video! One thing I feel I must add, as a horn player the high range of the horn is certainly powerful, and somewhat easier to project in than the low. Difficult above concert Bb5 or so, yes, but not thin.

[@sonicstoryteller]

Thanks for your time Anne it was a great video to watch,,, your a lovely lady best wishes from UK England 👍🙏

[@danielpicard3994]

Your channel is invaluable for any aspiring composer. Sample libraries can definitely be misleading when it comes to range and timbre of certain instruments. I also appreciate your comments in regards to offering musicians parts that they will enjoy to play. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share these observations with all of us.

[@nickmacmahon3329]

This was helpful, thanks! Especially the high cello vs low viola distinction.

[@vleiratfilms2020]

Such a joy to hear about recording with live musicians and session time. I used to do this years ago when the mock-up process was not possible technologically.. and multitrack tape was just getting to 32 track stage. As a fast writer but hopeless player and reader, sessions could be quite scary if it hadn’t have been for helpful players and especially the concertmeister. Was an exciting time but not as exciting as I think it is for you today. Love what you are doing .. Thank you so much.❤

[@gustavmuller4807]

Simply fantastic. Thank you! Anne-Kathrin you are truly the Pâté amongst a flock of Ducks (no idea quite why I wrote that)....

[@dirtyharry1881]

The fact that you take time for these videos while actively working as a composer is unbelievable. Danke schoen liebe Anne-Kathrin!

[@jeffwoollen1366]

Anne-Kathrin, so grateful for all that you do. Though I'm not doing much film scoring, your practical instruction on orchestration is still very applicable in my use of orchestral instrumentation in producing tracks for singer/songwriter; pop; rock; and folk focused music! Please continue your endeavor!

[@RebelNMotion]

I love your videos! Mainly because you're upfront with critiques, concise and clear with information and do not cram useless exposition into your videos. YAY YOU!

[@playguitar2476]

You are a breath of fresh air. I’m learning so much from your channel. Thank you for doing what you do.

[@hardcoreresettifan5048]

these tips are INCREDIBLE. thank you for making these videos!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Thank you for watching!

[@kimtaulbee260]

Once again you have given us a super practical and helpful set of lessons. "playability triangle" ... wow. Thank you!

[@jayducharme]

More great tips, thanks. What you're saying makes perfect sense, but I never thought about the different requirements of film scores. Those time signatures are HUGE!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Haha, some people make fun of us because everything in our scores is engraved as if we all have vision problems. But it's really just to avoid mistakes because someone missed something. :-)

[@jayducharme]

@@AnneKathrinDernComposer The skill of studio musicians astounds me, but anything you can do to make their task easier is probably appreciated.

[@djfull4442]

All this time I had no idea about no key writing being default. Thank you

[@jondellar]

Thank you so much for doing this video; as a lifelong film music fan it's fascinating to learn about these film scoring methods and techniques.

[@mr88cet]

Your EQ (Experience Quotient) is dang impressive!

[@michaelt6935]

26 minutes? That's gold, I would've been happy even for 5, but 26... thank youuu

[@kovachito]

Very clarifying for every arranger and orchestrator who make their own copyst work. Besides, very helpful instrumentation tips reminder. Great video...Thank you, Anne. Grettings.

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Thanks for watching!

[@serge1336]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I found that very, very helpful.

[@dfizzbom]

At 23:13- that's a LOL!! Thanks for these videos, Anne!

[@KenNickels]

If you put bar numbers on every bar for quick lookups do you then do away with rehearsal numbers that are usually on scores?

[@mperstl13]

Ravels Bolero in the background during minute 3:00! Fantastic piece, but his Symphony Daphnis et Chloé is the most marvellous piece I ever heard. I truly feel intimidated by his compositional skills.

[@davidnevillemusic]

Great tips Anne!! Thanks so much for these videos and for spreading your experience and expertise for free on KZbin for all of us to benefit from! Just to add on slightly to tip three, in addition to knowing the ranges and timbres it’s also important to know that just because an instrument *can* play in the given range doesn’t mean it’s comfortable to do so (like you alluded to with the conversation about the horns). I feel like for most people this goes without saying but if you’ve never worked with live players before you might not be thinking about it when writing with samples. Take trumpets for an example, they can play high and powerfully but you can’t have them playing high and loud for a whole piece, they will A. Hate you and B. Blow out their chops so fast and be ruined for the rest of the session. I hear a lot of beginner composers just write high trumpet parts for a whole 3 minute cue like it’s a string instrument or a flute or something and that won’t work that well in a session or even concert setting for that matter! Another example, it’s important to note that on the extreme ranges of the string instrument (super high & super low), it’s really hard to play fast scales/passages since in those extreme ranges they will be on one string and it’s super difficult to accurately hit those notes quickly, so obviously they *can* play high and low really beautifully but you just have to watch out what you are writing in each register because not every register is the same:) *edit* I notice that tip 5 kinda covers this topic a bit, but I’ll leave this comment here just in case!

[@johnwiesenthal2403]

Thank you for your useful and very digestible tips.

[@MusicalWizardryMarcoIannello]

Thank you for this new batch of tricks&tips, Anne-Katrhin! Loved it!

[@topoulos]

What’s great is that these really help get the ball rolling with learning orchestration. Fascinating as always!

[@charlesyateschalfant]

I know it's tough at times finding the time to do these vids, therefore, I once again thank you for your efforts and please know you're doing a great service here for many composers, as well as those wishing to learn. Much appreciation and respect from Sydney, Australia.

[@rossanopinelli5150]

Fantastic tips! As a composer, I think you're not only a veru good musician, but also a superteacher, very clear and helpful. Thanks a lot and keep up the great work. All the best!

[@PUREATMOS]

This is, without a doubt, the most practical and well expressed information on film scoring and orchestration I've ever found on youtube. Most videos are ok for people starting off or vaguely interested in the industry, but your channel gives information and advice that is truly valuable and applicable to people who want to take it more seriously. Thanks for your channel! :)

[@KrystofDreamJourney]

Anne-Kathrin makes her videos for serious students AND even pros, who want to enter media scoring industry...

[@warwalker4828]

I feel like I learn so much from listening to you share your experience and wisdom. Thank you for your creative generosity, it is much appreciated.

[@GregLassalle2015]

What a wealth of tips here. You might as well publish a book on the subject. I'm learning so much from your videos Dern. Cannot thank you enough for your generous spirit in sharing these. 🙏🏾🌞💯

[@DirettoIZM]

These are sooooo interesting and helpful! I look forward to more of your experiences, insights (and humor) whenever the next video happens!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

It gets harder to squeeze into my schedule as the year progresses but I'll do my best! :-)

[@pop_polizei]

You are such a good teacher and always a great pleasure to listen to. Thank you very much! Greetings from Germany. 🙂

[@petersvan7880]

Awesome video, thank you Anne-Kathrin!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Thank you!

[@lucentdan2]

Thank you for this! It's great to hear about these personal experiences and the positive ways to deal with them.

[@4BarCafe]

Very interesting, and helpful, as usual. Thanks!

[@scb1620]

You've given me so much to think about. Thanks for the excellent advice.

[@MUSICBOT-le9ty]

Good point about doubling thirds. John Williams does it all the freaking time. We don't have to follow all the classical rules.

[@Kingchord2000]

Thank you Anne for these golden tips in film orchestration! This helps a lot for us study this type of art.

[@FreddieAugust]

Like the name "football" notes. Over here in the UK we call them "egg" notes. Sometimes, playing these types of passages in sessions can be more taxing than melodic or rhythmic lines. We have to work harder to make a quality sound and phrase the eggs so they sound musical. Saying that, I do like the sound of a good string pad full of egg notes. Other names you might enjoy: High Piccolo - WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction) Low Oboe - Duck (quack, quack) Cor Anglais - Goose

[@natebrown508]

Thank you so very much!!! Invaluable information.

[@Ram-Music]

In fact, you are talking about a very important topic that helps players to be easy work. Thank you for this effort🌷

[@VasaMusic438]

Great advices !! Thank You !!

[@nexus4demochannel825]

Wieder mal geile Hacks 😁👍 Grüße aus Deutschland aus Hamm

[@stefanwelebny5112]

very nice and interesting video, especially the section about giving everyone something interesting to do. reminds me of mozart.

[@lordapophis93]

Love your videos. Glad I found your channel!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Glad you found my channel too! :-)

[@TeleStrat335]

Thanks for the scoring tips.

[@ZipplyZane]

I'm surprised key signatures aren't used along with accidentals. I find that knowing the key makes it easier for me to play, as my brain can think in certain scales.

[@vincentdargere]

So instructive. I can't thank you enough for all that input you give.

[@bluefalcon5433]

Yay! More of them!

[@j.lindback]

Thank you for posting this, I really learned a lot from it!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Glad to hear it!

[@DojoOfCool]

Learn so much from your videos thanks.

[@jannisbmrt]

Just discovered your channel, thanks for sharing all these tips!

[@MaximeMoura]

Thanks for making such a clear and interesting content !

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

My pleasure! Thank you for watching!

[@zvenx]

Loving the channel and even more this topic...

[@patricegomis2137]

Thanks a lot Anne-Kathrin, this is very handy and practical tips, as I like them! Please Anne keep going on if you have time for it!

[@rhodesohlerking7462]

I was there at John Williams in LA! Wow I wish I could have met you

[@J-MLindeMusic]

Another superb video Anne!

[@christopherravelbell8899]

Loved this video. Great points.

[@kaeleb1968]

Thank you for this and all your videos!

[@AndreasvanHaren]

Great tips, thanks so much for taking the time!

[@angeloshenan1509]

Thank you! Just thank you ❤️

[@ThomC]

These quick tips videos are super helpful, thank you very much for doing this Anne-Kathrin!

[@carrozzajohn]

There is so much great stuff here! Thanks for making these videos; so practical and informative!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

My pleasure!

[@chrisharrison809]

No key signature?! That’s crazy. Very interesting. What do you do if you have something that modulates to F# major or something like that?! Seems limiting musically to avoid those key center with many sharps and flats.

[@gsilva9326]

Amazing advices. Thank you for sharing, Anne. I'm following you here and it's impressive how you made being understandable this tips. I'm a self learner, because a health issue ( difficult to focus ). And your videos are so easy to make me, and for Shure, others here, understand that never is time to give up. Thank you again and again.

[@Borkorus]

Nice!

[@anatomicallymodernhuman5175]

Super helpful! Another range-related issue I’ve encountered is that some wind instruments tend to go slightly sharp or flat in the extremes of their pitch and dynamic ranges. For example, flutes in the bottom octave have to blow hard to be heard and that will drive them sharp. Clarinets pulling back to balance with the flutes may drift flat. Suddenly you’ve got a tuning train wreck.

[@DJKennethA]

Thanks for this little series you've been doing. These have been really informative.

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Glad to hear that!

[@stepheebee]

These are the best instructional videos of any kind and subject on KZbin

[@paoloagostini1407]

Great Anne … and thank you again

[@Roman-is4jj]

Thank you, I learnt a lot from that.

[@matteopirovano]

I love these orchestration videos, really. Love the way you explain things, simple, effective and sharing experiences. Immensely valuable. Thank you 👏🏻👏🏻

[@JulesCalella]

It's really interesting how much thought is put into what the players are interested in and the ease of playing when you compose, instead of entirely what the song may call for or how you would want it to progress as people would likely do if they were only writing MIDI tracks. Obviously, you have to consider the technicality of the song because real people have to play these parts. I've been working on some new compositions and I find it really hard to use woodwind in most parts, so I do have many measures where they just aren't playing. I'm sure that will become easier the more I learn to write for them, but it feels sometimes it's just not appropriate for certain sections. Depending on piece, this can be true for a horn section, harp, xylophone, or a celeste if you have one. Normally when making anything (music or something else), you're constrained by what you have available to create with (just because you have purple paint doesn't mean you need use it in your next painting). Do you feel you're pressured into using these instruments because they're available, and maybe perfect for a small section in the piece, even if you don't feel they're not appropriate for the whole piece?

[@ericfalley]

My opinion as a bassoonist is that orchestral woodwinds are best used as color instruments or soloists, and they shine best at lower dynamics or when the full orchestra isn't playing so that their individual unique colors can stand out more. Their usefulness can depend on the style of the piece. If 90% of a piece is mf or louder, I often do feel kind of useless as a bassoonist because the strings and brass will just drown me out. However, if the woodwind players are being included in the piece, I think most of them will appreciate having something fun and manageable to play, rather than resting, even if we're just doubling the strings. Even at louder dynamics a full woodwind section can add a complexity to the texture that would be lost if they were taken away, though they might not be easily noticed individually by the listener.

[@AndrewMerideth]

Horn writing in film music is very fascinating to me. There are some high delicate solos (Titanic and Devil's Own for examples, composed by James Horner and played by James Thatcher) but there are some really loud rips in that range too (Augie's Great Municipal Band from Star Wars Ep I (John Williams)) or even the finale to The Matrix (Don Davis) has a loud A in that range or towards the end of the Imperial March (John Williams). I'd say it's possible to go up to F5 (I think F4 in what you are using) which is the top C in horn pitch and can be pretty powerful, but beyond that is when it really starts to thin out for most players. I think the range you provide is good for inexperienced composers, but that upper range can certainly be used effectively if done right. The ending to the Wrath of Khan soundtrack (James Horner) has 6 horns on an F#5 (C# above the staff horn pitch) and 3 of them sustain it and it sounds amazing, so it is possible.

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

There are outliers but it's important to note that all of these scores were recorded either in London or LA which are the two prime locations for high quality session musicians. Any other location struggles with this. And even in the prime locations, they will need rehearsal time for those passages (which people like Williams and Horner certainly could afford) and they will often bring more than one instrument too. Definitely wouldn't take this as a standard.

[@AndrewMerideth]

@@AnneKathrinDernComposer I didn't think about "prime locations", very interesting thought for sure! Plus accuracy becomes an issue in that range as well, and I've heard stories about players dropping out on a take because of that. And when you have 12 players, like in How to Train Your Dragon, the chances of someone missing goes WAY up. In the end I think I'd agree with your range as the "standard" unless you know your players

[@rgallitan]

Cinesamples released a Descant Horn library a while back which is an instrument I hadn't previously heard of. It's basically the piccolo trumpet for horn - designed to make those higher passages easier and more stable to play. Now I wonder how many of my favorite horn parts are actually descant horn. Ironically, learning about that has made me more willing to write higher horn parts. See, I was once a horn player myself and tended to avoid writing for the upper register because I knew from personal experience how damn hard it is hahaha.

[@Apfelstrudl]

@@rgallitan most very high horn lines that are solistic/delicate are played in triple horns (high F with F/B). It is also done in symphonic and baroque literature.

[@Apfelstrudl]

Yeah of course it can be done (Strauss' Sinfonia Domestica goes to written E above the staff) but ONLY if you know you have the best in the world playing it and you manage your horn parts the way that every high player can rest for beats/bars (check out Richard Strauss for horn writing). If you dont have them, don't try and stick with Anne's recommendation.

[@labuti17]

Great video! Do you think you could make some more content talking about the nooks and crannies of film scoring, and maybe even video games if you know about it? Thanks for your hard work

[@Juansalomone90]

I love your videos! they are very helpful. Greetings from Argentina. Saludos desde Argentina ;)

[@ThomsenTower]

Wow! Most excellent videos in most excellent channel! I hope you can find time for this, because you are really good at it. Thank you,

[@djrbfmbfm-woa]

greetings from lismore, NSW, Australia. love your channel and subed. i was wondering if you could, to do some entries/videos about the Golden Age of music scoring. the Rozcas, Herrmanns, Norths, etc. these genious' had no puters or DAWs. sooooo, what was their procedure? any real differences? how do current scorers differ in their techniques to these obvious masters? btw, I am 73 yrs old, and a writer of music. i know, and have used a lot of your suggestions without knowing I was. Anne-Katrin, please keep doing this stuff, so valuable and so very true. kudos. j.

[@greedokenobi3855]

Once again, super helpful, loving these awesome tips!

[@AnneKathrinDernComposer]

Happy to hear that!

[@thepianonanny]

This is so wonderful Anne! Thank you very much.

[@Nullllus]

Once again tons of super useful information!