Every Retro Yugioh Format Has This Major Problem

[@darkencroix6412]

There are outliers to this. I did horribly in GOAT, and okay in Edison. I love both far more than current Yu-Gi-Oh, because I like grinder games. I can't stand it in fact, and the recent bannings kinda warned me the way I like playing tcgs is not how Konami wants theirs to play. So I stick to what I love, regardless of my middling at best ability, which has been consistent across all eras of every card game I've played.

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

Honestly it all depends on how many viables decks are present and what's the difference between top decks and other decks. Edison ain't gonna die:it's not a perfect format(substitoad,virus dev,dark armed are problems) , but it's a fun format with lots of decks and the scissor between top decks and other decks isn't that big.

[@lordofthered1257]

I do not think so. Vayu Turbo with oppression will be the chaos turbo of Edison.

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

@@lordofthered1257 Well to be honest i don't mind going against Vayu Turbo as much as i dread some broken start of chaos turbo. Anyway the format is still developing, i think there are still some hidden gems to be uncovered.

[@lordofthered1257]

@@guaritalksaboutcards Yeah maybe there will be some deck that can overcome royal oppression. None of the decks I have seen have done it yet besides vayu turbo

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

@@lordofthered1257 Royal Oppression isn't even that big of a problem tbh,even if i'd like it for it to be gone. The biggest problem with Edison is that the top decks have access to Deck Devastation Virus which is a win-button against many decks.

[@lordofthered1257]

@@guaritalksaboutcards Deck dev is bad but how do you out vayu under oppression? Smashing Ground the big guy? Cool. Now they just vayu again for an even bigger guy which you can't oppression vayu becauseit doesn't banish for cost. If you don't have mst or trunade or heavy all at one btw you just kind of sit while they beat you down. And they can just stop any special summons.

[@babysinclairfan]

Your point about people liking the formats where they did well is on point. A big appeal of retro formats is nostalgia, so naturally we'll gravitate towards good memories.

[@HalfarTenguFormat]

strong video! what i hate about the community is that waaaay to many people are whining about "getting sacked". In my favorite format, tengu plant format, i often see myself in a situation where i had a dead gorz in hand for about 4 turns until i could summon it and then the opponent cries that i had the perfect card. Bro, i would have rather taken a live card 4 turns earlier...

[@lordofthered1257]

I love goat format a lot but what people don't understand is that there is literally sack cards in every format. Edison is all the rage right now but I promise you that people will start complaining about royal oppression and vayu soon. Oppression Vayu is the chaos turbo of goat.

[@diegoleon5165]

If you had Gorz "dead" for 4 turns, it means that in those 4 turns your opponent did not put you through a critical situation.

[@skinnythick9417]

Playing since 2005 it sucks to see that. Now You drop a pot and a duo the opponent scoops. Never use to be like that haha, it's not all that difficult to come back. There's just so much stigma around "sacky" cards now.

[@lamp007]

I don’t like new Yu-Gi-Oh because the whole point is to stop your opponent from getting to play the Game. Edit: fixed auto correct from hand to game.

[@ookamigenji-pv2st]

To be fair; the meta revolves around making a board full of negates on turn 1 because most decks can/will OTK you on their first turn going second if you let them. It's a self-perpetuating cycle :/

[@LinksCow1]

Really just a fantastic video! I absolutely believe that the number one reason people lose games is because their opponent outplayed them. If more people would come to terms with this fact and focus on practicing and getting better we’d have a happier community.

[@Samurai31631]

That is part of it. There is another part that people don’t think about. Experience. After a certain point, you get a feel for what cards your opponent has. It’s like you just know. You also learn stuff like play sequence. Example. I have kycoo and you have GK Spy and Torrential. I play NoC, then I summon pyramid turtle. You play torrential. I lose the Exchange -3 to your -2. Now, instead, I summon pyramid turtle. Then I play NoC. You likely didn’t play Torrential. I have 2 monsters on the field. Little things like that make a huge difference.

[@LinksCow1]

@@Samurai31631 Such a great example! If people would just slow down and take the time to learn this stuff instead of calling for bans we’d all be way better off.

[@russelshacklefort5023]

Didn't you claim Frogs were the best deck in edison but it hasn't won a major event in months? Vayu is just a good stuff pile but unlike chaos it doesn't overperform and can be countered with proper deck building.

[@GoatDuels]

Frogs won an Edison major less than two months ago and has pretty consistently been placing in top cuts at major tournaments.

[@Josephhof]

its not represented

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

@@GoatDuels It's true but it's not the best deck. It's an annoying deck but it's like the Panda burn of Goat: siding right will help a lot. Also the deck has an horrible MU vs Gladiator Beast. Honestly finding frog to be the best deck is a mistake that newcomer to the format do: i know because it's a mistake i also did when i started playing Edison. At start i hated Edison because of Frogs and thought it was a terrible format. But now i can say that it's a good format even if it has some very problematic cards like Deck Devastation Virus. The more you'll play the format, the better you become at it and the more you'll like it. It's not perfect but it's actually a lot of fun.

[@GoatDuels]

@@guaritalksaboutcards I never said that Frogs were hands down the best deck. I said that the best 3 decks were Blackwings, Dragon Turbo, and Frogs, and that the format was heavily centered around executing broken combos, whether it involve Substitoad or something else entirely. Also understand that I am not coming from the perspective of a newer player. I have one of the highest winrates in Edison Format ranked ladder, and I have won a tournament with Plant Frog, the deck that I identified as "one of the best decks in Edison," which it still is.

[@retro_marmota]

the problem isnt the luck factor. Its the deck pool that is able to play the game. Its literally impossible to win any serious match without a high tier deck. That makes the game unfun to me, you cant just pick a deck you like, build it and hit championships without being crushed. On the other hand, getting a winner decklist makes you crush most ppl and top some events even if you doesnt even know wtf your doing, just repeating robotically the deck main combo and hand trapping on sight.

[@Roge9]

I think my issue is the meta of them gets kinda stale once more and more stuff gets figured out.

[@tjr930]

one of the best retro formats as a testament of skill is Critter format imo.

[@T0X1CSPIKES]

Testament of skill? How so? Im no expert on the format, but from what I remember, it revolves around abusing the handful of halfway decent effect monsters introduced plus the powerful magic cards like Raigeki and Change of Heart. The games were extremely slow, and there was barely any variance in the meta.

[@babysinclairfan]

Respectfully, I disagree with your main point Overall, your argument is that "People who don't like goat feel that way because they're bad at the game and refuse to get better". I see what you mean, but it's way too simplistic. By that logic, someone could turn around and say that goat players are bad at advanced and refuse to learn anything new. Neither argument is anything more than elitism. Yes, there are people who just want to throw money at their decks and can't be bothered to practice for an hour. However there are plenty of reasons not to like a format. For example, HAT is a fantastic format, but the Traptrix cards make you want Chris Hansen to pull up to your tournament. Edison is fun too, but two of the top decks are the ridiculously overexposed black wings and heroes. Goat is a great format until you meet *those* goat players. Not everyone who dislikes a format is bad. Maybe they just don't like it.

[@GoatDuels]

That... is not what I was saying at all, because that would be a pretty empty argument. There are plenty of people who just don't like the gameplay of a lot of games. Obviously there are a lot more people who prefer the gameplay of advanced format to Goat Format, just based on raw player counts. That's not who the video is talking about. It's about the people who just hop around from one format to the next trying to find the one where they win the most games, and why that's a bit of a futile effort.

[@damianrogowski5519]

I see no future for old formats , its like being stuck in time. People get older every year and sooner or later no body care about the past formats, its the same with example pokemon hearthgold. You could make a competetive pokemon team , maybe you have 1-3 friends which are doing it to to play against , after the years they will just quit it and youre alone.

[@danieltheman561]

where do u get all the stock footage?

[@GoatDuels]

Mostly pixabay.com

[@dfag2311]

Alan, you're my favorite goat content creator, but you missed here. The reason why retro formats would be doomed is because once all of the strategies have been discovered and everyone has access to the card pool, going first is the main edge that people have. This is especially true in draw 6 formats like goat where virtually every card is better going 1st (especially because of cards like dustshoot and duo). In 2011 (tengu) format, a YCS might have only had 10% with TGU in their deck. Now everyone can play TGU, unless they dont want to because they're playing skill drain or something. All of the technical play discussion (such as how to play around dustshoot) and card choices (such as choosing 2 faith or 3 faith), as interesting as they are, pale in comparison to going first. There is no downside to going first. There is only upside to going first. And on a long enough timeline, players don't like the uphill battles they have to face when going second. I haven't really played edison, but logically, I imagine that that format will follow a similar suit. Going second in a format with no "real" hand traps is going to be too oppressive. Even formats with maxx "c" and veiler have problems, but at least it helps. For a YCS in 2024, some "pro" players might have an edge because they have card ruling knowledge that most other players haven't figured out yet or they have tested and exploited cards from a new release that the other players only barely know about. Maybe they have a prize card or playset of secret rares that help them combat the meta. In goat format, everyone can play decree, cyber stein, have a full extra deck, and knowledge of rulings that most people might not have known in 2005. So the real edge is going first, which sucks.

[@Eiji475]

Your annology seems construed by modern yugioh. The reason going first became such a problem is because the game became too fast. Sure there's always outliers like dustshoot or any hand rip cards in general but most of the time in old formats even if your going Second you can easily still win if you play your cards correctly because games don't end in one or two turns like modern yugioh. Sure going first is always the preffered option but you act like it gives an unfair advantage when in reality it only changes slightly. Instead of being 50-50 chance of winning going first gives you like 55-45. It's an advantage but not one that isn't still winnable.

[@dfag2311]

@@Eiji475 I don't play modern yugioh. I have played goats and plants almost exclusively since 2017. You cannot easily win going second, the problem with going second is you're down a card and half a turn. So if your opponent goes first, they get 6 cards to play with and they get to summon/set without restriction. They also have a high probability to use a card to give them a +1, so they have 7 cards to your 5. Then they get to set spells and traps and monsters without any interruption. So if they set a dekoichi on their turn, and you draw as the second player, you have 6 cards to deal with their dekoichi. However, as the second player, if you set a dekoichi on your first turn (the second turn of the game), they get another card on their turn (3rd turn of the game), so they now have at least 7 cards to deal with your dekoichi. This is why going second sucks.

[@Eiji475]

@@dfag2311 you act as if there isn't outs to dekoichi going second. Nobleman exists. Mystic Swordsman lv2 exists. Exiled Force exists. Zaborg exists. Just because you get to setup first or gain a +1 in card advantage doesn't mean youre going to win the game.

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

@@Eiji475 Honestly going first is a lot important even in edison format because setting hamster and next turn summoning caius is op. Nevertheless the format is still fun , with lots of different decks and the gap between topdecks and other decks isn't that much, so you can have fun with lots of decks. I think edison is here to stay tbh.

[@Eiji475]

@@guaritalksaboutcards I'd argue Edison is actually worse for going second because you have less outs to things, the trap cards that are played are much more impactful when going first (BTH, Dprison, Rug after siding etc) plus the game is creeping on being too fast and its funny because stuff like Nobleman is picking up steam in sidedecks for this exact reason.

[@_DNA.]

I think the new banlist people are cooking from goatformat is going to end the format maybe by dividing the players,i hope i am wrong.

[@T-Ret1990]

What ban list

[@GoatDuels]

We've seen this movie before with Newgioh. It will simply result in a never-ending style of whining as players plead for whatever they lost to in the last tournament to be banned.

[@infusionscap]

Hopefully it doesn't come to that. From what I've been told, the plan is to continue the real format, and the ban list will be a side project. Admittedly, I was resistant to the idea of changing the format in any way, but since this is running parallel to the real format and not totally replacing it, I am willing to give it a shot before I write the concept off all together.

[@fawfulmark2]

Community banlists are a no-no and kinda go against the whole point of the Block Format being a thing. If they want change they can just play the Cyber Dragon era variant of Goat. Last thing we need is to go Full Smogon.

[@T-Ret1990]

@@fawfulmark2 they already made the list and ran a tournament. Not much changed. Chaos turbo still won the event lol

[@celtic1842]

No I would say it's most people being afraid to experiment in retro formats that holds them back. And that goes for the main game as well.

[@beitno3029]

Huh, I’ve never had that idea. I’ve always seen this game in a similar competative nature to chess. Did something happen that I’m not aware of?

[@DarnellRichardson-j3z]

explain to me how i am really really good in goat format but only MEH in edison like i only can win consistently in edison when i play glads other than that a coin toss LOL

[@misteralien8313]

Never expected to see the GOAT Efren "Bata" Reyes in a YuGiOh video

[@SpringBudEyes]

None of the drawbacks of retro formats outweigh the fact that modern Yugioh has been power crept all the way to Hell. For all the time it's had to iron out its formula, it's the most over-wrought game I've ever seen. A balanced retro format like Edison doesn't need ban lists and game-breaking new sets to to refresh itself with new top decks. It does that on its own. The core gameplay is fun, there are countless playable strategies, and the players are inspired to innovate.

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

Ehhhhhhh fun gameplay and countless playable strategies is subjective if we're talking about edison lol

[@jhonnydiamond]

This is not a game problem but an human problem. If you are not humble, determined and don't accept to loose many times you are just not suited for this game or many others like Yugioh. Moreover the other players must help the new ones. If you get too frustrated leave it and find a new hobby

[@SpellStryker]

Just by watching you, I was able to reach 5th place in db goat ladder in less than 2 months. Sara_X. Waiting to come back to try the goat emulator.

[@Alderoth]

Goat format is properly named

[@ThePHATBASTURD]

People hated whatever but I LOVED windup format lol

[@cocovacilando6601]

critter best format, its the closest to chess

[@cocovacilando6601]

and yata the closest to poker

[@russelshacklefort5023]

Then just play chess lol

[@GoatDuels]

I would literally rather give up card games for the rest of my life than be forced to play a format as boring as critter. But hey, if Fissuring your opponent's vanilla monster is what gets you excited, you do you.

[@Johnsmith-rn7ey]

dont care modern game fkn drags no matter the set ban list etc its always going to be 5 minute turns of building boards the game sucks now and it always will even if it keeps changing

[@esrohm6460]

and this is why no tcg with a brain has alt formats that are caped into the future. it's always from this point cards are legal not up to this point. but yugioh players are so starved on just anything different from yugiogh yugioh that they even play objectively boring formats

[@GoatDuels]

The most successful TCG of all time literally has a format where cards are capped into the future.

[@lssjvegeta7103]

so it's bad for copers and lazy third rate duelists. just git gud

[@jhonnydiamond]

Yes but all the new players are third rate duelists

[@babysinclairfan]

Your point about people liking the formats where they did well is on point. A big appeal of retro formats is nostalgia, so naturally we'll gravitate towards good memories.