EFAP - The Expanded Universe - MauLer and "I Hate Everything" have a friendly conversation

This is the fifth instalment of the Expanded Universe of the EFAP lore.
In this episode, old wounds are given some healing while two very different perspectives are shared and a conclusion is reached.
After two years of back and forth, misunderstanding and criticism. Mauler and IHE discuss how it all went wrong during the wonderful month of December 2019.

[@ericsantucci6934]

Good on IHE for being willing to do this. Shame on Quinton for not.

[@gumsgang1216]

Shame on Quinton for..... a lot of things

[@luiseatoll6368]

He did abandon TRO before so it's to be expected.

[@policesquad]

Feck Quinton, the guy is a total W⚓

[@RogueFox2185]

Quinton is a coward, it was honestly to be expected of a worm like him.

[@____uncompetative]

Watch his _Paul is dead_ video. It is really good.

[@keizervanenerc5180]

I like how stories like the "Mauler Trilogy" and the "IHE redemption arc" are better than the Sequel Trilogy

[@kylo-benshapiro687]

The Jay Friendship arc is pretty strong

[@nilktots6380]

I thought the part where IHE becomes a hermit and sucks Quinton's teat was pretty weird imo

[@kylo-benshapiro687]

@@nilktots6380 it adds to the film by showing you how far gone he is

[@nilktots6380]

@@kylo-benshapiro687 Maybe but the grimace after the strange blue substance was a bit much imo

[@mattmark94]

EFAP is like one of those anime where the "defeat equals friendship" trope applies

[@markserv9434]

This was so shocking to me, I'm not used to mature people on the internet!

[@____uncompetative]

Mark Serv Neither are.

[@sammydray5919]

@@____uncompetative They seemed pretty mature here to me. It was a respectful cordial discussion with no strawman beating or misrepresented arguments.....

[@____uncompetative]

MauLer makes a point of getting IHE to apologise to him a second time, the difference being that IHE knew going in he was being recorded this time, then at the end MauLer makes a point of getting IHE's consent to share the discussion, thus rendering his apology public. This seems like petty reputational point scoring over the contents of a trivial misrepresentation of an initial discussion that was recorded without consent. MauLer is taking matters way too seriously and needs to loosen up. He is also partly at fault for describing _The Last Jedi_ as "objectively bad content" as it was reasonable for Quinton Reviews to infer from that that MauLer considered his opinion to be based in objective fact and this also implied that it was exhaustive and definitive and unassailable and rendered him an elite critic. Obviously, none of this was EXPLICITLY asserted by MauLer, however I was under the misapprehension that MauLer thought this methodology applied to his own work and I tried to get him to adopt the alternative terminology of saying he founded his subjective opinion on a thorough "evidence based analysis" which was open to refutation through the presentation of other evidence that would lead to a conflicting analysis, and depending on its triviality, could be a minor nit-pick, or take away the bottom Jenga piece in a barely sturdy tower of inferred authorial intent and character arcs mysterious set ups and dramatic pay offs and his overall metric of cohesion, intelligibility, and in-universe verisimilitude. This is a complicated way of saying MauLer's conclusions are still subjective, but he tried to minimise the number of alternative interpretations that were open to him at every step of his workings through the rumination on evidence drawn from the content and some from the meta. The fact that MauLer was wrong to assert that Leia had never been trained by Luke because Rian Johnson said that Leia had never been trained by Luke (but left this clarification out of the film) meant that I knew that J.J.Abrams was free to retcon this detail and show that Leia had been trained by Luke (contradicting Rian Johnson's statement, but not his film, where no statement was made) and in the process invalidate MauLer's metacommentary supported subjective inference based upon facts not in the film. Metacommentary can therefore not be included in MauLer's method. So, if he says in some future _JOKER_ critique / praise that Arthur Fleck didn't kill his neighbor Sophie because the director said so and the cinematographer can prove it as they have deleted scenes that they didn't use in the final edit, which confirmed that she had survived the encounter, which they decided to leave out to make the film even more ambiguous, then that is irrelevant as far as the version shown in cinemas. There may be other deleted scenes showing other stuff (e.g. confirming that Bruce is Arthur's younger half-brother and he kicked him out when he discovered him giving the toddler a bath), some scenes could contradict the ambiguity of _JOKER_ and retcon and clarify Arthur's background, so he _was_ a Wayne, and we might see this in a _JOKER_ prequel rather than a sequel with an Academy Award winning actor who probably wants to move onto other roles and not aggressively diet again. If _JOKER_ is a standalone film it is more reasonable to accept what Todd Philips says about Sophie's fate. However, Warner Bros. could see $ signs and get another director to mix up Arthur's backstory in a prequel, so if something becomes a franchise the meta can't be relied upon as part of a critical interpretation. Then, when considering _The Last Jedi_ you not only have Leia using unheralded Force Abilties that are subsequently retconned by _The Rise of Skywalker_ into being stuff she must have been trained to do by Luke whilst on Endor directly following the events of _Return of the Jedi_ and if you really want to prove a point about how Rian cannot place an extrinsic metacommentary interpretation on his movie, then you can take the extreme example of me suggesting in chat that Rey used the canon established Force Teleportation to get rid of the second blade that threatened to end her life (which is perfectly fine as _Star Wars_ lore goes as Leia had previously been shown to demonstrate unheralded Force Abilities to save her own life, just as Luke had been shown to demonstrate unheralded Force Abilities to save his own life in _The Empire Strikes Back_ when he was using Force Pull for the first time in the Wampa's cave in order to get his lightsaber - a skill which Obi-Wan had never trained him how to do). This legitimate (though admittedly silly) interpretation of the throne room fight was countered by MauLer saying that Rian had said that they digitally removed the second blade to cover a mistake in the fight choreography. Fine, right? End of story. No, actually... as the events of _The Rise of Skywalker_ are canon and place a legitimate interpretation on _The Last Jedi_ that Rey was using Force Teleportation to get rid of the second blade (probably sending it a short distance outside of the dome into empty space) and Kylo making her necklace disappear on Pasaana wasn't the first time this happened. Kylo didn't learn Force Teleportation somehow in the year interval between movies, but Rey manifested the ability for the first time spontaneously in _The Last Jedi_ to save her own life, just as Luke manifested the far less flashy Force Pull ability in _The Empire Strikes Back_ and Kylo learned this ability through his connection to Rey as part of a very special Force Dyad that explains how Rey learnt everything Kylo had been taught by Luke and Snoke. Because as soon as he probed her mind, Rey learns how to do that and everything else Kylo can do, and promptly does it to him, so she tells him he fears he will never be as strong as Darth Vader. It all makes sense. That is why it is never a good idea to jump to conclusions and condemn content for being bad for a missing set up when the mystery is revealed in the final episode. Usually, it is better to resolve all mysteries by the end of a film, but there was no rule of cinema stating that _Episode VIII_ had to irrevocably, definitively, explain every mystery of _Episode VII_ especially when there was going to be an _Episode IX._

[@abraxas4261]

@@____uncompetative Whenever somebody complains about Mauler going on tangents I'll just show them this comment

[@____uncompetative]

Abraxas I've never had a problem with the style of MauLer's critiques / rages / praises / meh. I understand why some other KZbin critics would trip over his unexplained use of the word "objective". MauLer then went out of his way to prepend an hour long explanation to his critique of _The Force Awakens_ which wasn't really necessary for those just wanting his take on the movie. I think it got separated in its own video and there were timecodes to skip the introduction to his methodology, but I would have thought that a short clarification that he likes to go through the movie from start to finish making an evidence based analysis that is free to explore tangents that help elucidate his points which whilst not exhaustive is evidently thorough due to its length and will inevitably include things that are nit-picks (not that they are given undue weight when it comes to his final subjective conclusion). Because the working has been revealed every step of the way it reduces the likelihood of misinterpretation and should entirely prevent projection (of themes that are in the critic's mind onto the work, such as _Wit & Folly_ seeing the symbology of wombs everywhere). That said it may be a weakness of his method that he relies on a Director's remarks about his film to resolve ambiguities, and this metacommentary ought to be ignored, as the only thing that matters is the content. It is assumed that the standards by which MauLer rates the elements of the craft in the least subjective way feasible (or most comparable to a collective consensus which approximates objectivity) aren't particularly subject to change due to innovations in technique, or style as motivated by a not fully critically embraced _avante garde,_ due to the mainstream nature of the content he evaluates. So, for example, he isn't critiquing _Lost Highway_ (other than to remark on "a creepy guy at a party" - go watch that movie with Jay before wasting his time with a poor adaptation of a self indulgent trilogy) and see that the method you have adopted contributes little of interest to the appreciation of the art as objectivity is inherently striving to be unemotional, whilst art is intended to elicit emotion. This mismatch means that at best you can critique the craft (nonsensical, incoherent, plot hole filled stories, and lack of verisimilitude assuming that surreality isn't interposing to render all interpretations deliberately ambiguous and supportive of multiple, potentially, conflicting THEMEs) and feel befuddled at the art, perhaps lacking the experience to relate how it made you feel to the wealth of other true cinema that has moved you emotionally in ways that you can't quantify, as if you could quantify it then it would be a measurable aspect of the craft, and not something you ascribe to the art.

[@sophisticautistic5453]

The chat is very polite in this

[@cadeautismproud5495]

Hey I have Autism too! =)

[@tequilawhiskey]

Now im convinced its simply a big PR campaign for the U.K.

[@jackbuchanan9085]

Thats the British for you. ^_^

[@mrmackellar3337]

Sophistic Autistic They were imitating E;R this episode

[@franciscorendon2783]

When the edgelords aren't there to ruin it it's nice.

[@ChaseFace]

It's funny how IHE comes off so curmudgeonly as a critic but one-on-one he seems very warm.

[@JudeIsnotthere]

I think its because he just lumps all criticism from people he doesn't have to talk to in one box and labels it toxic. But when confronted with one of those people who are genuinely being civil with good faith he buckles and tries to be the just down to earth nice guy. Which he might be, but his videos don't portray that. Side note love ya videos Chase!

[@smileychips7448]

If you ever listen/watch to the JAR podcast, you soon find out that he is just a big dork.

[@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish]

Question chase, do you like minorities?

[@nsp6590]

@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish I'd say he's made his view on them abundantly clear at this point.

[@cleanserofnoobs4162]

@@JudeIsnotthere I mean the same argument could be used with wolf. He had a very agrro persona when reviewing bad films, when in reality his persona is part of his character shtick. It's not really him, and it seems wolf wants to get away from it.

[@walulu6531]

It turns out the real Last Jedi was the friends we made along the way

[@alam71us]

Doesn’t make sense but ok

[@ARC--5973]

@@alam71us Just like the film itself

[@PhoenixWakeStudios]

Respect to IHE for coming on again and revisiting his viewpoint on the series. Takes a lot of guts to go back on something you'd stated before, but we all grow from doing it.

[@brosephnoonan223]

Or like... Or he's literally just caving to pressure to put this stupid shit to bed.

[@lostsanityreturned]

@@brosephnoonan223 I dunno, opinions change over time and it is quite easy to have extreme responses when you see other extreme responses. One person hearing that something is amazing over and over again is likely to be more aware of where the flaws are. Someone hearing that a property has no merit over and over is likely to be looking for merit. For example, I think Joker is mediocre garbage. My emotional take on it is a 5/10 because I was expecting so much more yet got something that only really succeeded because of the main actor. However if I am being fair months after watching it it is probably a solid 7/10, the cinematography was alright, the script while weak and derivative was somewhat entertaining and the titular character was very well acted even if none of the other characters were.

[@Iloveyou-dz7mq]

Ihe has guts? I mean, he's a floating head...

[@properduction2586]

@@lostsanityreturned First of all...Your opinion is valid in some aspects... Note : My number 1 point is more of a question than a counter argument... 1)I dont know if you critiqued Joker as a '' Joker movie '' because in that aspect some comic book fans like me expected to not like the movie very much but the opposite result came out ( since Joker doesnt have a definitive origin in the comics... ) but then there's the question of '' was it real or just an imagination '' given the ending of the film... 2)Cinematography was alright ? I think it was great ... 3)You gave no credit to the soundtrack and score...It was incredible... 4)The script was weak ? Sure there were some weak parts...Like some forced scenes of Bruce Wayne parents ( at the end specifically ) and Joker's love interest should have been developed just a little bit more...Elaborate on this one because i have no idea if you have the same thoughts as me... 5)Your emotional take on it is 5/10 ? Again i have no idea how to break down your argument...

[@ChickenKingTW]

@@properduction2586 The only real counterargument you have is 4 and that's just asking him to expand on it. The rest is just 'b-b-but I like that bit'.

[@hadayimosi]

"'This is not the IHE/MauLer video you are looking for." _*waves hand_

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

Can I have some fake news, please?

[@hadayimosi]

@@duncanmcokiner4242 Sure thing: 'The Democratic nomination Caucas in IOWA was well organised and they weren't rigging things for a Buttigieg win at all,' A spokesperson said but was sadly killed in a car accident tomorrow evening. More at 11.

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

@@hadayimosi Ah, that's good fake shit right there. Thanks.

[@Unknown-hb3id]

@@duncanmcokiner4242 China is handling the Corona virus very well, and the WHO is totally infallible with their reviews, especially regarding China and this situation.

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

@@Unknown-hb3id I didn't realise you were replying to this thread when the notification popped up and was like "People can't be that dumb". Fuck, I was worried for a second.

[@AutisticGaming2004]

The question is though... is this conversation considered canon and if so will Disney end up saying it’s non-canon down the line 🤔

[@thruthewormhole]

Wait... do you NOT accept this as part of the EFAP FANATICAL STAR WARS UNIVERSE?! ARE TOU GETTING THE FUCKING BLU RAY??!

[@Sorel2020]

We'll know, when Jay sells it to Disney

[@benjamingrant5970]

It'll be canon....when it fits a woman.

[@Titanic_Tuna]

@@benjamingrant5970 "When it fits-" IN "-a woman." What? Are they going to spit roast her? One on each side?

[@benjamingrant5970]

@@Titanic_Tuna like a turducken.

[@RogueFox2185]

This was the historic final battle between the Longman and the Giant Head, that paved the way for the end of the EFAP Third Era and the beginning of the Fourth Era...

[@FirstMetalHamster]

And it is all narrated by Christopher Lee.

[@yomama9538]

The Big Giant Head?

[@Unknown-hb3id]

Skull on Wheels vs Giant Head

[@meris8486]

@@FirstMetalHamster If only more things were narrated by Christopher Lee

[@FirstMetalHamster]

@@meris8486 afaik audible only has one thing voiced by him on offer, the children of hurin.

[@elephantpowerproductions]

This is why I love you Mauler. No matter how bad some videos from some people are, you always try to reach out, understand others and listen to them.

[@KaneK1234]

IHE isn’t a very smart man.

[@policesquad]

@LeadFaun Deckard knows the score, he shags replicants.

[@AlexanderDivineEmcee]

@@KaneK1234 says the mauler fan

[@brad6220]

@@AlexanderDivineEmcee Both of you suck

[@kingbash6466]

Mauler and IHE now: Look at us. Who would have thought? Not me.

[@hardromeo436]

I can't believe IHE would talk to these alt-right leftist KZbinrs

[@janinecat1865]

Shut your trap, secret Rags'

[@meris8486]

lmao

[@meris8486]

He keeps giving a platform for the left tit agenda by talking to these sexist Buffy fans.

[@TheAdarkerglow]

Well well well, a nuanced little centrist boy.

[@titansparrow64]

Doesn’t he know that debates are GAY!?

[@beerdrinker1486]

I REALLY like IHE's idea of contacting people you cover a couple days before the stream. Give them the option to join the conversation. It would be far more interesting as the person could clear stuff up AND it would also be really telling if they dont show up.

[@ProfessorChaos56]

They should cover Linkara's TLJ video and have him on while their doing it.

[@MarcAlcatraz]

Unless you’re already blocked by them beforehand

[@jebalitabb8228]

I like his idea too but the issue I see with it is that the videos should be able to stand on their own, the creator shouldn’t need to be there for it

[@Schleicherfreund]

Assuming guilt just because you aren't entitled to their time of day makes you a fallacious idiot, I'm afraid. Don't stoop to that level.

[@WatanukiProductions]

I wouldn't say it would be "telling" if they don't show up. I'm sure there are perfectly reasonable people with decent arguments who wouldn't want to participate in a live discussion that often involves them defending their position against 3 or more people in front of an audience that is strongly in favor of the people they are arguing against. I have enormous respect for the people who have come on but I can 100% understand the people who don't want to. Though I agree I would like to see this format attempted.

[@Bai_Su_Zhen]

I imagine it took a lot of concentration not to say macmuffins instead.

[@Eassstt]

IHE is so level headed, I appreciate it

[@PuddingASMR]

Something I see everyone miss about TROS: they take the time to mention how the Holdo maneuver is 1 in a million, but then at the very end of the movie when they show shots of “everyone is rising up against the first order” they show another destroyer in pieces like if someone else did the “Holdo maneuver”!!! Did anyone else notice that?

[@arthurdent9745]

MauLer did, he mentioned it in his video about it.

[@codyhax0995]

Yes, Mauler adressed that in his TROS review. It's really funny for them to try to stop that to raise the level of threat again just to slap them right down at the end of the movie.

[@jgamer2228]

Let’s be real here, the so-called heroes of the disney Star Wars trilogy weren’t going to be allowed to lose. They had to pull something out of the box of retarded tricks they had

[@Lalle524]

It has been ten thousand years, and when we finally get the IHE chat, it's the ROS... Sweet!

[@KaneK1234]

IHE is a terrible KZbinr.

[@policesquad]

This isn't THE chat though, this was the kiss and make up one.

[@ericsantucci6934]

@@policesquad Yeah it sounds like we'll never get that IHE & Mauler & Wolf chat. At this point, considering THIS conversation, you'd think IHE would be ok with that recording going up now. It doesn't sound like that recording contains anything that hasn't already been admitted to here.

[@policesquad]

@@ericsantucci6934 So, you are saying listening to the players talk about the football game after they played nearly 2 years ago, is just like watching the match again today? Not quite, they may go over the same points and address each other's butthurt but there is no smack-wrastling, no verbal kung-fu and no real conflict overall. Sorry but not the same.

[@ericsantucci6934]

@@policesquad But from how MauLer and Wolf described that chat, it was mostly them talking about all the reasons TLJ is terrible, and IHE begrudgingly agreeing with them (which I suspect is the real reason that IHE doesn't want the recording released, considering his prior videos on TLJ).

[@viscountrainbows6452]

*8-bit Duel Of Fates begins playing*

[@germanscience7246]

*kazoo duel of the fates begins playing*

[@hadayimosi]

More like the music during "I don't like sand," scene,,, than Duel of the Fates. This was on the last stream,,, it was a pretty mellow chat.

[@jole5468]

Duel of fates requires 2 heroes fighting 1 villain, so the unreleased ihe chat is duel of fates. This one is battle of heroes

[@elephantpowerproductions]

Except in this case it’s the parts where non of the fighting takes place

[@Col.Roy_Mustang]

Dead 😹

[@homuculoid3320]

SLAM What'd you bring me

[@rollrcoastrbacon2725]

Undead Palpatine a better redemption arc than Alice’s

[@Jay-Voorhees]

Pictures of Spiderman

[@ominousvonte]

I want Mauler on Sardonicast, he’d make a good guest.

[@Neo2266.]

-Stream Ends -IHE sits back -Hears GTA SA theme song *Respect +*

[@MarkIn4D]

i'm glad Alex made up his mind. Thanks for being a nice person Mauler.

[@KorporalNoobs]

Reasonable discussion. IHE wasn't going to unconditionally capitulate so i think this is about as good a outcome we could have hope for. It's probably the best video to present when facing people who where negatively primed towards the EFAP crew.

[@SAWTheDesigner]

At least IHE had the balls to accept to chat with MauLer and state his position on the matter. Also... Is his profile picture suppose to be Alfred?

[@deathsdoor07]

I thought it was the squirrel from SpongeBob.

[@aaronyayger]

It's clearly Sandy from Spongebob, bud.

[@aaronyayger]

@@qledei5874 What exactly am I missing, dude. Enlighten me before I look like more of an idiot.

[@ooochoa]

>when people don't know the efap meme. People... No, its patrick.

[@samwallaceart288]

Alfred used to be a slave at the Cheeks’ ranch; you never see him because Sandy Cheeks is away on an oceanic exchange program, but the Alfred working shit at the ranch is heavily implied at least three times.

[@dankmemer7431]

I really respect IHE for being honest about his video on TLJ and why it was fundamentally flawed so big props there.

[@____uncompetative]

Dank Memer 74 I thought it was fine.

[@dankmemer7431]

@@____uncompetative I dunno I think he had too much interprative language in his video. For example when he called the fans children in regards to sending death threats to Rian Johnson which in fairness was pretty bad what they were doing to him and I don't and will never condone people's actions like that. However he never addressed why the outrage was there I dunno just seemed like he was painting everyone underneath that scope personally. In addition it wasn't fair on his end either and only made him look a bit like a shill (not saying that he was it just looked like it) because that movie was so objectively flawed and was such a mess that people to some extent had a right to be angry. Which at the time he never adressed the more reasonable criticisms and anger towards Rian Johnson's filmmaking and writing. Therefore it led to way too many interpretations in his line delivery so I get why your saying that but I don't agree with what you're saying if that makes sense.

[@escalatingbarbarism5096]

You can call it honestly. It could also be called back-pedaling.

[@dankmemer7431]

@@escalatingbarbarism5096 sure but I do believe that he's really sorry about what he did do I guess that's more of the optimist in me admittedly. Especially when both are both are actually being very rational and mature with each other here and both admit they had faults on their ends. However I view back pedalling as saying shit like "I've never said *blank* like that" or "You're just being a strawman (without pointing at an example)" or "What you said/did was very unprofessional but I'm sorry on my end to". To me it's the same as saying shit like what I've listed here it's just a nicer sounding way of saving his own ass if that makes sense. In addition, to me that's back pedalling back pedalling can also sound like it's being read from a script which when I watch this video. I don't think he is because his speech is a little stuttered from time to time it goes pretty fast to a bit more panicky sounding, and in an argument even professional ones there is still improv. On the other hand the fact that this is a stream either doesn't necessarily help the idea of a script because obviously it's all live and thus I don't agree with the idea of what your saying however like I said to the other guy I understand why you're saying it due to KZbin (and KZbinrs specifically) having a lot of snakes and liars.

[@escalatingbarbarism5096]

@Dank Memer 74 I just remember his opinion more recently on an episode of the Sardonicast where Ralph was shitting on TLJ and both Alex and Adam were arguing against his opinions. Now both are pretending as though they never really cared, which if true, begs the question why they'd argue in the movie's favor at all.

[@Kernwadi]

"We've killed guests before." -MauLer

[@Kernwadi]

"We got plenty to rape." -MauLer

[@MyRickyjoe]

"He's done with Star Wars."-Mauler on JJ Abrams He sure is.

[@benjamingrant5970]

"fine by us,but it's a BIT fucking late,isnt it???"- star wars fans

[@looinrims]

Yeah, Star Wars is still cuffed and now bleeding and leaking cum as Jar Jar Abrams walks out of the dungeon

[@brosephnoonan223]

@@looinrims Much like the children Epstein supplied him.

[@looinrims]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos fuck me, Jew Jew was there too?

[@LordVader1094]

@@looinrims Basically everyone was there lol

[@versiform9069]

* Happy 'tism noises *

[@amanibob1416]

"Civil... Calm... Hatin' on Rise of Shewalker... Perfectly balanced, as all tism should be." Jake Baggins

[@Neo2266.]

Amani Bob Jake?

[@amanibob1416]

@@Neo2266. Jake Skywalker... Rey Skywalker... Bilbo Baggins... Thememes

[@Neo2266.]

Amani Bob By the lord of the Long Men The duke of Objectivity The leader of the Toxic Brood Mooler, Mewbshchley, Mooper It is my duty to inform you That i will be stealing that “Thememe” thing

[@iusedtowrite6667]

As someone who enjoys both of their content, it was great to see them talk about their differences in opinion in a civil manner. You usually don't see that much on youtube.

[@monopolizeme]

This was such a lovely video. I’ve always enjoyed IHE from his Best of the Worst series and I’m glad to see you both having a friendly conversation. I hope it all works smoothly moving forward.

[@user-zg7rl1ot7m]

you know what's funny? the end battle of the ROS was done before, in a little show-based movie called "futurama". some bad aliens built 42 death stars, made entirely of gold, and the whole FTVU (Futurama TV Universe) have to fight them. I think the takeaway from the trilogy is "use a script doctor". I think RJ got close, but some changes had to be made, to make TLJ good. if you don't believe me, here's a challenge: try to think of a plot to TFA, which has nothing to do with TLJ.

[@reginaldfromnigeria5206]

The plot of Heir to the Empire.

[@brosephnoonan223]

@@reginaldfromnigeria5206 Without all the conpetant characters to execute that plot

[@jerm70]

Okay. Here is a plot. We start out with Luke's hands trembling with the light saber and giving it back to Rey. Luke tells Rey that the resistance needs a fighter with passion not an old man who no longer stomachs death. We cut to the Resistance a few months later trying to establish contact with Republic systems only to learn that the First Order has essentially wiped out the systems that had Imperial sympathies. The Outer systems have all swore allegiance to Snoke making the Outer Rim Empire. Not one to be subtle now the First Order is now cleaning house on the corrupt warlords and traffickers of the galaxy. Finn are Poe are forced to confront this in a new ship with a plucky mechanic named Rose. Finn is force to come to term with something he never thought he had to before. The Empire liberated people and the Outer Empire is doing it now. Poe however sees that it is better to die a slave than a tool for the First Order. Blowing up transports carrying these slaves. We cut to Rey training with Luke and learning the backstory between Luke, Kylo, and Snoke. Snoke was a pupil of Luke's jedi temple who had a great mastery of the force. As a slave that Luke freed from exile Snoke would have a different world view. The jedi shouldn't be weak and should enforce control of the galaxy which leads into the great schism of the Jedi temple. The First Order is the result of an elite group of Jedi gathering Imperial sympathizers in order to make the formidable army we see. Snoke became the Head Consul of the First Order and there was a new order formed called the Knights of Ren. A collective of Jedi that betrayed Luke during the schism burning down the temple and killing Luke's disciples. Kylo would ultimately be revealed to have cut Luke's throat. Luke lives only by Luke's ability to force heal himself at the right rate to avoid bloodlost. The reason why everyone wants to know where Luke is simple. Luke has a sith artifact that contains the soul of Darth Plagius and if the First Order can bring him back it will result in a Sith lord that will never be beat ever again. Rey will then take the artifact and suddenly feel a reaction to it. We see memories of a young Rey on Jakku during the final days of the Republic's years and Luke finally acknowledges what has been known to him throughout. Rey is not natural. She is a child of the force made by Plaguis' spirit. Plaguis mastered death and have been messing with slaves as a force ghost. This would be a start for me.

[@johnellisbushbush]

Is this supposed to be Alfred?

[@Luke-xi2pq]

No, my stairs are supposed to be Alfred.

[@cecilofchristmaspast4186]

I'm glad, the faith and respect I'd lost for IHE has been restored.

[@nqobilengema2165]

Why did it go in the first place? Just cause a person makes 1 mistake doesn't constitute disavowing... But he consistently kept at it for long then i understand the comment

[@thatguy9419]

@@nqobilengema2165 Yeah that's how i see it too, it was not just "one mistake" it was years of IHE doubling down. Also lol at IHE's idea about contacting people before making a video/steam... that coming from the person that instead of talking to others went back on what he said in a private conversation and continued to take potshots at other people. I will not defend Wolf making a recoding without telling him before hand but i will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not do it with malicious intent. But i will also say that if IHE was not a two face fuck it would not have been that big a deal.

[@nqobilengema2165]

@@thatguy9419 ok fair enough, if all the IHE videos i seen, i don't see any of what you said. But then again i dont really care for youtube drama. i was here only to see if IHE haa repented on his views of the new Star Wars trilogy. To me he still makes good content and i can divorce the man from the art.

[@cecilofchristmaspast4186]

@@nqobilengema2165 to answer your question you asked earlier, it wasnt just Star Wars video, he's allowed to like what he likes. But the problem is, he went back on a lot of things he'd said or was about in the past, his podcast with his buddies had some cringy takes, and he all in all didnt seem himself. The constant sniping, and attitude made me grow less and less excited about his work and personality. But it's nice to see him now, possibly going forward with understanding between him and MauLer, I dont think he'll ever be cool with Rags, and that's fine. But it takes the right kind of guy to talk it out.

[@nqobilengema2165]

@@cecilofchristmaspast4186 ok fair enough, you guys know more clearly as o haven't seen other videos or heard other podcasts of his therefore will believe you.

[@sexistspaghettios]

Has anyone actually seen mooler and mauler in the same room together 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@MrPatalchu]

Maybe that Mooper guy knows.

[@PhoenixWakeStudios]

Batman's been missing too, coincidence?

[@Unknown-hb3id]

Do you think he's supposed to be Alfred?

[@mgeiger2341]

I dunno, Tyler from Knowledgehub acts a lot like Mr. GDELB, so how do we not know if they're really different people.

[@BigRedBird]

This is irrelevant but I love your name

[@jebalitabb8228]

So when is “An Unbridled Rage of: Mars Bars” coming out?

[@brosephnoonan223]

When IHE finally lifts the embargo

[@looinrims]

Just to show how much of an autistic fanboy I am; the title would actually be “Mars Bars: An Unbridled Rage”

[@rollrcoastrbacon2725]

Wow this redemption arc for Alex was more fleshed out and gripping than Kylo Ren’s throughout the whole Star Wars sequel trilogy. Good stuff!

[@Zach0451]

Not the IHE discussion we deserve, but the one we needed right now

[@charmandyorton006]

We still have yet to see the MauLer and IHE chat from way back when TLJ came out...

[@kevinmayfield6182]

Charmandy Orton it’s probably never gonna come out unfortunately I was actually eager to hear what was talked about exactly. But alas Mooslie and Wolfarts honor is to high.

[@brosephnoonan223]

@@kevinmayfield6182 If the honor was high Wolf wouldn't gave recorded it without IHE's consent - as if this were some fucking STING operation.

[@kevinmayfield6182]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos He recorded it because it was a good conversation so sayeth the longoid.

[@brosephnoonan223]

@@kevinmayfield6182 Maybe you let a shortboi KNOW you're recording so you don't look like some NSA spooooook

[@michalnowacki1489]

No matter what you think about TLJ, I think we can all agree that Destiny got destroyed in this debate

[@brosephnoonan223]

Careful. The Destiny Babies will _still_ tell you its good. Nevermind the half a decade of shit, nevermind the problems with the gamestate that have existed since the first game that have only been made worse by its sequel are _still_ as pervasive as they are shameless... No no. Activision bad, Destiny good! Don't pay attention to the shit story, ludicrously long and exploitive grind game, or terrible game balance - thats just being a hater! Stop being a hater, you hater!

[@ozzymandias8137]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos google ‘destiny debate’ on KZbin. It’s a guy not a video game my g

[@looinrims]

@@brosephnoonan223 god if this isn’t my own voice…

[@the_last_chancer]

As a big fan of both of you this video is great

[@void735]

IHE restored. Next up Ralphie Unless Quinton comes out of The sadows

[@ProfessorChaos56]

Yeah, no. Quinton hates MauLer so much and he has lied so many times and dug himself into a hole so deep, he's never coming out. Maybe Ralph will, but Quinton won't. It's a nice thought though.

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

IHE and Ralph had some weird takes on movies and made some poor arguments to back them. Quinton was actually malicious in deliberately misrepresenting Mauler and even used TRO (His own "friend") as a human shield to take all the backlash. Theyre far from the same.

[@dragonforks93]

@@sernoddicusthegallant6986 I'm new to all this drama. Why does Quinton hate MauLer?

[@KneelB4Bacon]

15:00 I felt the same way about The Force Awakens until I started to think about it. And I recognized that feeling because I had felt it before, during the prequel trilogy. (Although to be fair to George, his writing at its worst is far better than anything in the Disney trilogy). And once "The Last Jedi" came out, it became REALLY clear to me that Disney had no idea what they were doing with this franchise. I thought, "wow. Disney really DID hand over a 4 billion dollar franchise to a bunch of hacks, didn't they?"

[@aveimperia4026]

The redemption arcs of Tonald and IHE are legitimately better storytelling than most movies out of Hollywood these days.

[@mudcrab3420]

That was cool. Bring back IHE again sometime.

[@mand0rk]

I really like this live and casual version of IHE over his persona he puts on in his videos.

[@brosephnoonan223]

Would you say it's objectively better?

[@mand0rk]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos It’s my personal preference, so I probably wouldn’t bother.

[@georgekenwardparker2575]

you shoulld check out his chill weekly podcast he does with his brother and friends kzbin.info/door/RbmoQpKsACJnnpWaECa_WA

[@ImHELLBERG]

I am so so so happy to be fans of people like you two that can actually have a proper discussion about things. Thank you very much for being like you are bois

[@wikistacks9396]

This is my fan fiction come to life. I enjoy both MauLer and IHE content. Hopefully these intelligent men can work together in the future.

[@brosephnoonan223]

Not enough Rags knotting all over the place to be _my_ fanfiction, but I got you.

[@Chapterhouse86]

It's really nice to hear you guys getting along. It's also great to hear someone make a sincere apology. Seems like you hear less and less of those as time goes on, nobody wants to admit fault to anything anymore. This was super interesting to hear! Love you both.

[@jroggs85]

Not a fan of IHE's idea that KZbin creators should be obligated to reach out to creators before making a response video. A response video is essentially a larger scale version of leaving a comment on the video, and nobody would suggest having to seek a video creator's blessing before leaving a comment.

[@disguyovaheere8140]

me walking out of TFA in 2015: that was terrible everyone: you're crazy mauler years later: that was terrible (but in a british accent) everyone: oh yes, absolutely.

[@jarlbalgruuf7701]

Only reason I liked it when it released was purely nostalgia and the joy of being able to watch a Star Wars film for the first time in a theatre

[@jakobrenner2230]

@@jarlbalgruuf7701 and surely the expectation of what was coming next. Now that that expectation has been crushed, there is no reason for liking the film.

[@Fuk99999]

Me walking out of TFA: That was okay. They needed to bait people into being excited about star wars again after all this time and since the prequels sucked. Me in 2020: The prequels look like fine art compared to this

[@TerranGuy93]

I walked out of it after seeing it with my best friend at the time and found it really meh. I didn't think it was terrible but very bland and got worse the more I thought about it. My friend was gobsmacked and saw it as "a great cover song." The one thing the Sequels actually accomplished was making people appreciate the things the Prequels did well.

[@thorthewolf8801]

I walked out of tfa feeling hollow, I didnt know why, but after some searching I found out it was just a copy of anh

[@nickcosentino5368]

This is probably my favorite EFAP. It was wonderful that two individuals with different views could talk rationally. I hope persons can see the value of discussing differentiates. Great job to both of you.

[@13loodCrow]

Good on ya, man. I am glad that this was peacefully resolved and all questions answered. All well and good wishes IHE! Thank you for the vid, MooLer/MauLer!

[@CupCakeUnleashed]

Need IHE on EFAP

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

I think Alex and Rags are still bitter at each other, I would hope that they can get past it though.

[@WatanukiProductions]

I loved IHE's little comment about being sat in the theater with a wrong feeling in your gut. That was exactly how I felt watching TFA but it seemed like everyone around me was happy. It's been strange watching each film Disney released wake up more people to how poorly conceived and constructed Disney Star Wars has been from the very start.

[@Bouncy_Ball_Studios]

Happy to see this. Being civil is just the way to go.

[@MarcAlcatraz]

I listened to this three times and was never bored

[@evafox9696]

If IHE ever sees this, I want you to know because of this I now subscribed to the channel and I watched your Anthemn video. I have so much respect for people who engage in polite, civil, mature discussion about an issue.

[@Katyamuffin]

So glad this happened. I agree with IHE in that I absolutely despise "KZbin drama" and I'm happy the two of you talked it out like adults. Good stuff :)

[@Nixonitus]

Glad to see you guys worked it out.

[@noblekatana2270]

Major props to IHE coming onto maulers channel and having a pleasant chat

[@OpeningBatsman]

Great work, guys. It'd be great to see IHE join the EFAP gang from time to time. From what I could tell, there's a big difference in the way IHE and Mauler approach matters, suggesting a disparity in personality which I think contributed to the problems initially. I think that their disparity, but with the benefit of mutual respect, honesty and shared humour would mean IHE would be a good addition to the crew. 'In my opinion.' - GDELB

[@jayvynstudiosftw6510]

Two my fav KZbinrs confronting and talking things out

[@v-set5721]

I've waited my WHOLE LIFE FOR THIS.

[@filiporvik2782]

Awesome effort guys!

[@Zathren]

I heard that Act Man name drop at 20:20 And I fucking approve. Love his channel.

[@brosephnoonan223]

"What Makes the IHE Redemtion Arc *SO* Awesome"

[@chuck2469]

This conversation is about internet wizards meant for children

[@sumdood7410]

The student has surpassed the master mauler got that big brain 🧠

[@RogueFox2185]

I’m glad he finally acknowledges that TLJ was a mess, though I wished he took this approach the first time around instead of insulting his fans.

[@____uncompetative]

Rogue Fox No. I completely disagree. You went in with your own expectations and bias only to be disappointed by a metacommentary on the fandom and social media reception rather than get the critical review you wanted. IHE had no obligation to give you the video you imagined. It wasn't what you wanted. Boo hoo. Where does he insult his fans? I didn't take any of his criticisms of toxic fans as applying to me even though I hate _The Last Jedi_ and I think it is the worst movie ever made. Quite why you feel IHE insulted his fans, and presumably you, otherwise why even care, is a mystery.

[@RogueFox2185]

I had no problem with the rest of his review but that section with the “metacommentary” painted a very large brush over the fandom in general which came off as somewhat insulting, also just because I disagreed with some of his points doesn’t mean I expected a video where everything he said lined up with my views at all.

[@peterjoyfilms]

@@____uncompetative You're being sarcastic right? It's honestly hard to tell sometimes.

[@austinjohnsen4430]

It did kinda feel like a knee jerk reaction to the backlash, didn’t it?

[@JonborgVA]

everyone makes mistakes thats for sure

[@mikhailbychkov5042]

Can someone post this on Sardonicast subreddit? They hate Mauler and love IHE so it'll be interesting to see their reaction

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

Cats and dogs living together! Mass hysteria!

[@liwendiamond9223]

If they hate MauLer, I'm gonna hazard a guess they will try to cancel IHE. It's what the MauLer hating crowds usually do, because the promoters of cancel culture are the only ones who actually _hate_ pedantic analyses of everything that goes wrong or stupid in movies, tv series and video games, and by extension everything wrong and stupid about the underlying culture that brought them into the world, much to our chagrin. Everyone else either loves them, or just doesn't give a flying **** because his videos average out at 7.8 hours.

[@n.k.63]

Why do they actually?

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

@@liwendiamond9223 But now this makes at least 2/3rds of Sardonicast that are okay discussing things calmly with MauLer, so I'm sure most should come round eventually.

[@Full0metal0custard]

Just looked, someone posted it around the same time you made this comment, tin foil hat time.

[@alexparadise91]

Lovely chat. Much respect for IHE

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

"JJ really dangled those keys" and Rhian dangled the dice instead.

[@gmonkman]

Good chat between adults. Well done guys.

[@Mrdestiny17]

WOAH THIS IS GREAT!

[@VulKus117]

I love both of these guys and several of their surrounding associates like Wolf and Ralph, so seeing this conflict was sucky. I’m very glad to see things at least escalate to a civil level between the two. The fanbases are different, but who cares about that, everyone has their own opinion on every KZbinr. I’ll peacefully continue being a fan of both.

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

Another EFAP villain on the path to redemption. Meanwhile Quinton, Taxxon and Willems still cower away and take potshots from a safe distance.

[@EdwardEstacado]

Finally these two talk

[@robinthrush9672]

I like when people can get past disagreements and have nice conversations without personal jabs.

[@darkranger116]

This is something that I personally like to see from people. Emotion. True, ranting unabridged emotion composed into a orchestral blade of a point. Like IHE's comment for example, or what Rags does.. just.. existing.. To believe in something so purely, because you know it's intricacies so well, that when you see someone else completely unabashedly, irreparable, inexcusable use of it, in all the wrong ways... it just kills you. We get mad when the bad bad happen in the soul. That's part of being red blooded. To show it and express it is part of being alive. I go nearly ballistic when i see a "AAA industry" portray military and tactical intelligence of a 16 year old from COD, contrived just to create a plot. There's no reason the resistance would reverse engineer their own bombers?? Why the hell did the first order troopers have terrestrial backpack launching, wheel based technology for their rovers?? Why AND how, would the equivalent of a galactic PMC upgrade their massive, mostly situational MASSIVELY expensive ATAT into entirely new formats, before the much cheaper, much more maneuverable, much more applicable ATST?? What do you mean they have that many star destroyers??? AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! You can't tell me a story about super advanced alien cultures, and then have the forces within it DOWNGRADE their technology, for the sake of the plot. And somehow CONVENIENTLY outproduce everything else in the story, for the sake of the plot. Boy HOWDY does it enrage me. It just takes me out of a movie, instantly. And you know what, sometimes a part of my brain does judge people for still liking it. Yet at the end of the day, a shit ton of people have never read The Art of War. So my rage is all to myself and the random few who feel that lack of immersion.

[@Dragonrealms245]

And this shall be known as the day that IHE came back from the dark side and redeemed himself. May he be a good tism for years to come

[@thatguy9419]

Cynical part of me is still a bit "He flipped befor"... so i shall wait and see. Cosmic chicken willing he will not stray from the path of redemption.

[@policesquad]

At the time of typing: 47 comments, 32 shown. My 1st one only appears in the Newest First section. Just mentioning the word h8 more than once, gets you flagged now on this awful platform, it would seem. I'm so sick of it.

[@djdeadbeat4380]

Wait, so you’re literally not allowed to say the word “h8” more than one time in your comment or it gets taken down? What a bunch of bullshit

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

Yeah it bugs me because KZbin will take down my comment but happily notify me when someone says something on a comment chain where the comment used to be

[@policesquad]

@@djdeadbeat4380 No idea, I see someone did say it and their comment appears but I said it many times as part of a silly joke and mine is hidden from TopComments but appears in Newest First. This happens a lot to me these days. I'm sure it happens to a lot of people but most do not notice it. If you look in Newest First, around 40-45 mins ago, you will see my reposting of my first comment, it does not appear in Top Comments. This is why in Livestreams now, always select "Live Chat" and not "Top Chat" because a vast number of posts in chat are no longer seen like they used to be in Top Chat. I'm sick of being treated like a child, this isn't the KZbin Kids app. Oh and, I have a list compiled of all the things that get you flagged, some words just beggar's belief.

[@azeael8429]

Bottled Titty Milk yep, it crazy for youtube to do that. It has been many times i tried to debate on the comments section and write a few paragraphs. Then put in some trash talking becuz .... it is the proper efap way. Only then to get deleted by youtube.

[@mortemtyrannus8813]

KZbin have been shadow-banning everyone lately. Don't be surprised.

[@thatguy9419]

This will be fun to show to all the people in the comments on Rags IHE video. I have my doubts they will watch it but for anyone new that actually cares about information it will be useful.

[@LazyAnnihilator]

Does anyone else agree with IHE that Wolf recording the first chat without letting everyone know was slimmy? I love Wolf but he isn't infallible and I think that act might lengthened the "War", so to speak. Intentions aside it would have looked to me, if I was in IHE's shoes that EFAP were being underhanded and looking for a gotcha.

[@brosephnoonan223]

People are scared to say "Wolf a shit" when Woldf is, in fact, a shit. It's hard for longbabies to look at longdaddies and say truthful things that might be bad. Nope nope... Now. If IHE did that? No no! Slimy, twofaced bad bad boy! No no, naughty, shit boy! How *dare* he recird somebody without their consent! What a *chump*

[@benjamindrexler9635]

Based on Mauler's description of it, I could kind of understand Wolf doing the private stream and sending his friend the link just to prove he was telling the truth, but only until the friend popped in and could see. It would still be a bit underhanded and slimy, but more-so rude. Letting it keep running, though, that was definitely too far.

[@mrmackellar3337]

LazyAnnihilator I thought they asked him if they could record it and he said yes, but they can’t upload it.

[@brosephnoonan223]

@@mrmackellar3337 How could you get that? This video he literally says "When you told me he recorded me I was like 'Wooooah... ok? Kinda rude.'" And Mauler elaborates that wolf recorded the convo because he "wanted to show it to the longbois".

[@mrmackellar3337]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos No no, I’m talking about before this video came out

[@knifewieldingwomen]

Season's greetings! 🎄

[@knightjamesii7757]

Glad everything worked out for you guys. The secret recording thing does seem a bit odd, but I imagine he never meant it with malicious intent. So it isn't too big a deal and I doubt it's something he practices routinely.

[@MemeAlchemist]

I would still like to hear the discussion that wolf recorded because it’s such a mysterious part of efap lore. Plus i love both the toxic brood and IHE and i would love to hear the discussion itself. Especially after hearing IHE say he doesn’t regret anything he said in that call and would have been fine if it went public just thought it was underhanded.. idk! Food for thought fam.

[@Col.Roy_Mustang]

This was great and long awaited thank you both ♡

[@Ubermensch9240]

It's nice to see former enemies come together for a harmless little chat. ^~^

[@CaptainSnackbar]

This conversation is like when 2 Enemies in the movie stopped fighting each other to defeat a bigger foe, for that you will have to wait for the next EFAP

[@Noname-nk5kv]

if you could bring on IHE you should bring on Cosmonaut VH, it would be really interesting to hear you discussing SW

[@alexandram5845]

No name Cosmonaut doesn’t seem to like Mauler very much so he’ll be harder to get on

[@jadeatrophis]

Cosmonaut would rather snipe from the safety of Twitter than face MauLer face to face.

[@deeta000]

Cosmonaut is a big fat pussy. Never gonna happen.

[@kodybuffettwilson]

I'd love to see that, but given his outlook towards MauLer on the social tisms, I doubt it'll happen anytime soon.

[@masonkolaski]

I liked the video and put it over 1k. This is power

[@samwallaceart288]

Mason Kolaski - I clapped.

[@policesquad]

I hate everything about I Hate Everything but not everything is something I hate, just I Hate Everything hates everything I Like, so, I Hate Everything that I HATE EVERYTHING likes... Maybe

[@UncleClapton]

I hate this.

[@whade62000]

Lol this whole comment section trashing IHE when in the conversation he's so nice

[@ydin9]

Big respect for IHE for doing the conversation and addressing the issues and misgivings. Might have to re-sub too since he didn't lose his mind as I thought he did. Well, not completely atleast.

[@Kernwadi]

"I was gonna go to sleep but then I had a big poo." -MauLer

[@JonborgVA]

Glad they could get together

[@DukeoftheAges]

The new Star Wars movies don't even feel, look, or sound like star wars. They feel like marvel movies.

[@paragonpoints8420]

Good on IHE for being up for and going through with this conversation. It takes a lot of confidence and self-insight. I award you this W, Mr. HE.

[@brosephnoonan223]

HE

[@Kazoid1337]

Why?

[@Dr_Smash]

Holy crap, was this right before the TROS EFAP? Too bad our Longman couldn't convince him to come on the actual stream

[@SeekerOTheWay]

This is so much better than Wolf and Mauler talking to that Star Wars commentator. IHE seems more calm and thoughtful and real. Ther isn't all this F'in and slang and almost crying from getting too worked up. So an actual conversation was had here. :)