Everything Wrong With the Battle of Scarif

Everything Wrong with the Battle of Scarif. Part 6 of our Star Wars Tactics series this time we'll be looking at the Battle of Scarif. Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor lead Rogue One and group of rebellion soldiers into a suicidal mission to retrieve the death star plans from a heavily guarded imperial archive center on Scarif.
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[@shingshongshamalama]

I get why people don't like Jyn. Personally, I love the presentation of a protagonist who isn't some super important special Chosen One. I like the film focusing on a person who is a _victim_ of the Empire, suffering under the problems and oppression this regime causes, who would rather just go hide under a rock and has to be gradually convinced to fight against them. I like that Jyn's character arc goes from watching her mother throw her life away pointlessly in defiance of an unstoppable military machine to...doing exactly that herself.

[@tk-756brony6]

shingshongshamalama Idunnooo... seems like another simple "Rebels triumph over all, horraaay..." film. I don't remember any actual victories in favor of the Empire, so the unstoppable military part you said there doesn't seem to be accurate.

[@tk-756brony6]

shingshongshamalama saying something about the battle of Hoth would be understandable, but didn't the Empire simply blow up some of their shit and kill some rebel soldiers? Didn't all of the figures Lord Vader was targeting make it off of Hoth in one piece? (Thanks Admiral Ozzel. Force choke well deserved.)

[@stuglife5514]

There’s a lot more victories in the comics and books and EU for the empire

[@imjashingyou3461]

@midgetydeath which is a normal problem with loose insurgent groups. Also that military discipline doesn't develope the moment you enter the military. It takes a 2 to 3 month bootcamp of 16 hour days 7 days a week of constant correction and supervision. So that's very believable.

[@johnmccarron7066]

@midgetydeath Yes and no. Even in Legends, the Rebel Alliance was originally various groups working together, but not unified. One of the big themes in Alliance history at that time was Mon Mothma unifying the Alliance, and how there were some leaders (like Garm Bel Iblis) who felt very threatened by that.

[@theempiredidnothingwrong3227]

I'm never this early will return in two hours so balance is restored to the force.

[@jakeplays4916]

Paul Harrison Lol

[@jwalkballin]

Everything wrong with the tragedy of Darth Plaguis the wise.

[@WHOARETHEPATRIOTS475]

1. He died

[@jaydee4861]

No problems

[@unga_bunga6004]

@Rafael Enriquez he was drunk

@Rafael Enriquez he might have invaded Plagueis home

[@johnmccarron7066]

"Star Destroyers have shields which stop collisions, like asteroids." Shows a Star Destroyer getting vaporized by an asteroid.

[@caseyrockel2260]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@xbaumann]

Can you do clone wars battles. Like the battle of Ryloth.

[@GenerationTech]

+xbaumann yea maybe

[@jangustl_wt2358]

the battle of Christopherus of the clone wars the movie. Obiwan and Anakin: "Hold the line!"

[@jakeplays4916]

Jan Gustl_WT Love! That

[@skyslasher2297]

xbaumann Ashoka that's what's wrong with it

[@balintvarga470]

Generation Tech no Christophsis

[@RandomAmerican3000]

Regarding the ion torpedoes, there is a line from Gold Leader "Hit that opening." This implies that something during the battle created a weakness that was not exploitable previously.

[@JackulaHD]

I don't know if I just missed it but what pissed me off the most is that the star destroyers do nothing for the entire battle. They never engage the rebels, just allow themselves to be destroyed.

[@Kaughper]

JackulaHD - YES! Exactly! Thank you. Someone else noticed!

[@MrShadowpanther3]

Actually it seemed like the capital ships never exchanged fire at all. It was all small ship damage.

[@177SCmaro]

MrShadowpanther3 The only times I've seen capital ships exchange fire in Star Wars moives is during the beginning of ep 3 and end of ep 6 (briefly in the case of the later, probably due mostly to limited special effects at the time).

[@MaverickCulp]

I'd love to see more of this series, but also expanded into TCW.

[@Justin-un7nx]

8:49 "they should have hooked up" XD

[@curtisbrummitt5470]

I mean if certain death is that close, who wouldn't wanna smash?

[@annedavis3340]

This was about battle strategy and then he throws THAT in. The heck kinda strategy is that

[@Justin-un7nx]

I wasn't hoping they'd smash. In this comment I tried to point out his quote

[@mamswer]

Lord Hosk nah

[@meowmeowmeow594]

JKEMI : ship

[@Datch99]

Are we blind deploy the Garrison!!!

[@julienimp8213]

Are we Garisson? Deploy the Blind!

[@melonboi927]

Mos Ewok Cantina Garrison the are we, blind deploy

[@andrewdesrochers7054]

You are not blind you are UNOBSERVANT..

[@DoctorX17]

This is like CinemaSins: just because we point out the flaws, that doesn't mean we don't love it

[@briansukhu4392]

What was perhaps the most unrealistic aspect was the two star destroyers had little or no effective point to point defensive weapons, but Vaders ship Devastator has enough point to point weapons to destroy large numbers of the rebel fleet

[@melonboi927]

Everything wrong with battle of Kashyyyk

[@davidkelly4210]

The biggest issue I have is WHY didn't Tarkin fire the death star either at full power to wipe out the planet or AT THE TARGET?! The death star beam had to have hit 100 miles away! I get that we had to have the goodbye moment but they could have just had the death star show up a bit later. In fact making both the characters and audience think the good guys would live only for the death star to jump out of hyperspace and vaporize them would have given more weight to their deaths.

[@GenerationTech]

+David Kelly lol yea it was pretty dramatic how it just kind of blew up krennic and then he beam disappeared off in the distance. I think they didn’t fire at full power because it would’ve destroyed fleet above the planet . Another reason is maybe the reactors weren’t all charged

[@DavidbarZeus1]

I think that they were hoping that while the tsunami (for lack of a better word,) would annihilate the rebels while leaving the archive building intact, if a little flooded. That's the only thing I can think of.

[@davidkelly4210]

No water for something like that. No, it was plot armor so everyone could say goodbye. Having the death star simply show up later would have been better writing.

[@N3xtStopHell]

David Kelly The first time the Death Star was at full power was during episode 4. If they would’ve done it during Rogue One it would have broke continuity. That’s why we never saw the Death Star fully destroy a planet.

[@dawnknightx]

The reason Alderaan was eventually chosen was because it would inspire fear into any other rebelling systems. Worst case scenario, the empire resorting to blowing up one of the planets with their base on it would not only make the Rebel alliance seem like a credible threat but also ruffle the feathers of Imperial loyalists (which was important since the senate was still a thing in this movie)

[@horationelson2440]

After that speech those rebels must have been thinking, "We are going to die".

[@GenerationTech]

+Horatio Nelson exactly

[@raybarry4307]

Just watched this. I know 5 years late. The Hammerhead scene with the Persecutor will always be the biggest example of plot armor in all of star wars. Without doubt. And that's Really saying something.

[@DrewZepp]

1. The speech Jyn gives is one of my favorite Star Wars moments. It reminds me of before Luke Han and Leia land on Endor, 2. Those actually are At-ACTs

[@Native_Beats_]

YES!!! wait... HE SAID THE T-WORD

[@incompleteriver770]

Single best Star Wars scene made by Disney is Vader slaughtering the youngli- I mean rebels... I meant rebels...

[@gunnerdan]

I was kind of under the impression scariff was the retirement home for old imperial officers. Guys who got complacent and haven't fought in years, and just tell stories of what they have done. Thinking of it like that, I think it's easy to see why they had a lackluster response, and the director, who was driven by ambition, was able to take charge and organize at least some sort of defense strategy

[@liamjaya2985]

Most likely, the reason Scarif was so under protected is because nothing could rival 2 star destroyers before the battle of Yavin.

[@qusayabdul-hamid1778]

of all the wrong things in this movie, the most ridiculous thing is how some blind guy can avoid a bunch of highly trianed death troopers, and the excuse people use is "He is force sensitive". The jedi at the jedi temple were force sensitive, but we all know what happened to them.

[@qusayabdul-hamid1778]

*trained

[@TheTendermen]

He was one with the force (plot), and force (plot) was with him.

[@r13lilwendz]

All is as the plot- I MEAN FORCE!- Wills it.

[@nicholaspeterman9111]

Actually, he wasn't even Force-Sensitive. He was just a monk of sorts.

[@user-tj8ok5tf1j]

Sorry for the long reply. Chirrut Imwe wasn't force sensitive though some like to believe he was. He had the skills he had because he has rigorously honed his body through intense physical and mental discipline [from Star Wars Databank: www.starwars.com/databank/chirrut-imwe]. He was one of the Guardians of the Whills, an order of spiritual warrior-monks and he was attuned to the Force in a way that most people were not. However, not all Guardians were like Chirrut. I can imagine after being trialled and tested by the hardships of the Enpire, some lost their way/faith. For example, Baze was "once the most devoted Guradian of them all". Now imagine if you lived in that time. Wouldn't you wonder, if the force was even real? Why did it let everything happen and why did people like the Jedi who had the force let the Empire take over? Couldn't it have been prevented? Instead, you are now living a harsh life under the rule of the Empire. Your faith can be shaken and you begin to doubt if the force actually exists. Baze lost his faith but Chirrut kept believing in the force. Chirrut's chant "I am one with the force and the force is with me" is some sort of prayer. I say that because he chanted those words when they were in a cell, being held by Saw in Jedha and Baze mocked him saying "he's praying for the door to open". Chirrut responded, "it bothers him because he knows it's possible". Chirrut chanted those same words when he was walking over to the master switch on Scarif. The force shielded him from the shots being fired at him just like it did for Luke in episode 4 when Vader couldn't shoot Luke's x-wing down. The only difference is Luke didn't have to chant anything because the force was naturally strong with him. And as for the Jedi in the temple? It's not like the Jedi didn't go down without a fight. They were clearly out-numbered and death couldn't be avoided. And Chirrut's victory wasn't long-lived because he died shortly after he accomplished his goal. Rogue One was refreshing because we got to see a different perspective of the force from people who are non-force sensitive and how they viewed it and use it. Right from the start, we saw Jyn's mom Lyra give her a necklace with a kyber crystal and told her to "trust the force" and later in the movie we saw Jyn pray when she held the necklace in her hand and closed her eyes when they were transmitting the clearance code to enter Scarif. And it worked. So I don't think it was "ridiculous", it's a powerful and underappreciated scnene.

[@thebricksofmandalore1943]

That ain't an ATAT I can't remember the name but there is a vid on it I saw it

[@brotkannschimmeln2875]

Ich am only at 1:00 but i think it is an At-Act(All terrain armoured cargo transport)

[@Nugcon]

AT-ACT

[@jakeplays4916]

AT -ACT

[@lieutenantnomad9198]

AT-ACT

[@sc_art5408]

AT-ACT

[@richardbachman1260]

In the scene where the black pilot says "C'mon!", he destroyed the Star Destroyer's right side shield generator on top of the bridge. He then made his escape behind the ship. Without the shield, the SD was vulnerable to the torpedo attack. I enjoy watching your videos. Great work.

[@MagicSpud]

What about how when the shields were raised the Rebellion wasted precious time and firepower attacking the shield itself instead of the ring producing it for a good portion of the battle? That had my face in my hand during the movie for a good couple minutes.

[@konac7191]

i have a few answers that might help, but are probably just me trying to fill in the plot holes myself 1) i think Jyn's speech translates to "take it one step at a time and push your luck until you die, lol. none of you are main characters" 2) i don't think Krennic was supposed to be in charge, but he's an egomaniac and was already upset, so he probably assumed command and all of the officers just rolled with it like the power bottoms they are. 3) you pointed out that the ISDs had no supporting ships. all i can say to that is RIGHT!? WHERE'S THE REST OF THEIR FLEET!? THEY ARE CAPITAL SHIPS. C A P I T A L SHIPS. EVEN SSDs NEED SUPPORT SHIPS BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU CAN'T SPARE 1 FUCKING CRUISER TO SUPPORT THEM? NOT 1 CORVETTE? ISDs ARE EXPENSIVE 4) i think the TIE screen was preventing the Y-Wings from deploying their ion torpedos until they saw an opening to go in. at least that's what i thought it was because they said "i see an opening!" or something along those lines.

[@konac7191]

i have 2 problems with the scene 1) the ISDs still need support ships. they're good in a fight, but all alone the rebels can exploit weaknesses like, say, if the fighter screen has an opening and a squadron of bombers go right through. even the fleet thrawn was assigned to as a lieutenant was like 3-4 cruisers and 1 ISD instead of 2 ISDs. like, why not send the executor off on its own? because 8-10 ships are better than 2, all other factors equal. 2) as a capital ship, ISDs are already assigned to their own fleets. these two seem to have just popped out of nowhere, so there's probably a fleet somewhere down 2 ISDs and it's just a bunch of frigates.

[@Areanyusernamesleft]

Bobo Squiggilywinks except in this movie.... *Spoiler Alert* Even the main protagonists die.

[@alexturlais8558]

I'm not sure you know what a power bottom is.

[@konac7191]

Alex Turlais joke jōk/Submit noun 1. a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline. "she was in a mood to tell jokes" synonyms: funny story, jest, witticism, quip; pun, play on words; informalgag, wisecrack, crack, one-liner, rib-tickler, knee-slapper, thigh-slapper, punch-line, groaner "they were telling jokes"

[@alexturlais8558]

Bobo Squiggilywinks a better analogy would be a sub bottom.

[@otavio8566]

those ships in Ep 5 didnt colide against each other, they did an emergency maneuver. and the one hit by an asteroid, definitely had its shileds weakened or lost after sustained asteroid hits.

[@rolfgrell4783]

Star Wars shields in fact have to be weakened for something to pass through, but if something too powerful hits it, the shield collapses. And maybe there only were two Star Destroyers until Vader arrived, because all the Arquitens Cruisers and Raider Corvettes were needed elsewhere.

[@thebackingpackinggeordie]

Great video. Thank you.

[@Raving_Rando]

Do the Clone Wars! So many things were wrong with those skirmishes.

[@meisterproper8304]

Raving Rando Some of the bigger "Battles" in CW only lasted for about 3 minutes and they often lacked any authenticity. Making a video about them would take forever since there are so many mistakes

[@lanevo6640]

It was just clones and droids walking and shooting. Then jedis hopping around with laser swords fighting others with red laser swords.

[@lieutenantnomad9198]

7:55 Yes. The shields need to be down. Admiral Raddus even said "Hit that opining". He was referring to the opining in the shields that he made with his capital ship!

[@BMXSTUNTRIDER2232]

If you read Rebel Rising you will get a much better understanding of Jyn Erso and see her grow into who she is in the film. You will probably end up liking her more. Jyn is my favorite character in the entire Star Wars franchise so when I read the book I gained an even greater love for her.

[@ellagrant6190]

This was a great video. Very good points.

[@95spades]

if the shield don't account for friendly ships (could be a hassle if you kill your mates if they drive too close) that knife-through-butter is actually quite plausible, as it is going straight into the superstructure, which should be less structurally sound than the ship hull, and carries an enormous momentum due to the incredible weight.

[@AlexSoetekouwProductions]

Bowr Gullit

[@bjmccann1]

Allen, awesome breakdown! If you're ever in Louisiana, let me know. I'll buy you and your crew a beer. That's right a single beer, but with as many straws as you need.

[@bcmm1880]

This is prob one of my fav Star Wars content out of the shows, movies, ect

[@ela7atienza]

(insert joke about inserting a joke about being early here)

[@reitatr5320]

Admiral Raddus used the ion torpedos after a single x wing shot down one of the shield generators on the ISD which created a whole in the shield. That's why they didn't use them earlier!

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

This is why I didnt feel bad gunning doing Jyn Erso in Battlefront.

[@TrveIrrlicht]

When you absolutely necessarily need that extra 5 seconds to get over the 10 minutes mark.

[@chillywolfdoesgaming2100]

Can you do everything wrong with the old republic

[@GenerationTech]

+JasskordyDaily hm good idea

[@danielmartin9057]

Do some of these videos on the clone wars battles

[@wheresgolberg]

Jyn's speech highlights the key concept of the film, hope. The whole movie is about hope. Jyn and Cassian know its a suicide mission but are going in anyway. They are against overwhelming odds but it is the only way for the Death Star secret to get exposed. They know they won't be the ones destroying the Death Star but hope that their sacrifice means someone else will.

[@themetalstickman]

So the reason that Raddus didn't immediately utilize his fighters' ion torpedoes is because the Star Destroyer's point defense would have shot them down. Just before the torpedo run, you hear Gold Leader call his squadron to "hit that opening." The destroyer had gotten distracted by Rebel frigates, and had left its forward firing arc open, allowing the bombers to strike.

[@gregmiller8796]

That and you notice when watching the battle that one of the shield generators on the Star Destroyer had already been blown up before the ion torpedo attack

[@katelynobrien7415]

I feel that the things wrong with the Battle of Scarif are largely confirmed by you to be smaller things overall, and I don't disagree with most of the things you pointed out. Although I do have some thoughts.... Maybe you just meant it as a joke, but otherwise I completely fail to see Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor hooking up and don't understand how some are serious about this if being critically analytical of their characters. The final moment to them seemed to me to be more this moment of penance between them, going out in peace for having accomplished something together in the name of a just cause they mutually shared. Remember that Cassian Andor was going to ASSASSINATE Jyn Erso's father! He and the Rebel High Command lied to her and used her to this end. This would be sort of an alienation point, and I think give credence to what you said about a Rebel command structure not necessarily wanting to go off of Jyn's word, but while I can imagine change of conscience on Cassian's part during his short time with Jyn, I think romance between them is a massive and uncomfortable stretch from setting out to murder her dad only recently (and the Alliance mission on Eadu did ultimately get him killed). So that's my biggest critique of this video. No way in hell would Jyn have a romantic interest in Cassian, but I absolutely see this very pure and beautiful moment of redemption between the two over what they did together on Scarif.

[@GenerationTech]

+Katelyn O`Brien hehe you’re right I was just kind of thinking maybe right before hey died they’d want to make an emotional connection. But that’s just me.

[@katelynobrien7415]

Yeah, I guess I can see them doing more with an emotional connection. I dunno. I kind of liked the embrace I saw and the way it happened after Cassian actually pulled Jyn away from spending her final moments with a mind focused on vengeance against Krennic, who perhaps symbolically gets blasted away on his tower while Cassian and Jyn seem to embrace in a redemptive moment on the beach before going out together as comrades in the end. These characters get a lot of criticism for their supposed lack of development in a movie definitely structured differently from all of the other Star Wars movies, and they did take some depth away from Jyn's character I've heard with some of the cuts made to the film, but there are certain details that I've caught after rewatching the film a few times that make me particularly like the movie and relate with Jyn probably more than I do with Leia or Rey (although Rey has more development coming as well). In honesty, I think it also worked to the movie's favor unintentionally that it also came out after the election of Donald Trump, leaving a lot of people in the mood to root for the cause of a group of rebels who the movie made me feel for more than any of the other Star Wars films. Anyway, as someone that has long followed military history, works for defense, and had originally been planning on entering the military, keep up all of the strategy and tactics videos which I absolutely love! My favorite military personnel in Star Wars have always been the Rebel pilots, because I think they are by far the crux of an insurgency against the Empire's infrastructure across an entire galaxy. The Rebellion certainly can't afford often to face the Empire head-on in a lot of fleet battles (which you addressed well in your Endor video), which I would guess factors heavily into why it outfits very independent starfighter pilots with hyperdrives and shields. Plus, in the books at least, they seem to have to be able to interact with many vastly different cultures across the various star systems to wage this kind of asymmetric warfare. Kind of like special forces, but with X-Wings instead of M4s, though I might also imagine older Z-95s and maybe Y-Wings valuable even for perhaps blending in more with certain groups for specific missions like smuggling or providing planetary air support for some insurgent cells.

[@type_s_tyler7547]

*AT-ACT. Also, what support cruisers are cannon? I know we've got the Gozanti class and the old Arquitens class crusiers from the clone wars era, and the interdictors, but i can't see any of them hanging out for guard duty. Are there any others? I don't think the Victory class has been cannonized as of yet, but I could be wrong.

[@IIDarkForeverII]

I may be wrong but as far as I know Victory is canon but we dont know what it looks like

[@type_s_tyler7547]

Any idea where it might show up? I haven't read any of the books, i'm assuming maybe like the Tarkin novel or something

[@RanierMedic]

Nebulan B's and Corellian Corvettes were the typical escort ships for the Empire. There where others that came up in the RPG put out by West End Games in the 80's and 90's, but I don't think they were ever made cannon.

[@calumscott8737]

Hey GT - like your vids, got a request for future content here - could you do a "everything right" with Scarif (/other battles)? Lots in it that made sense as well as the stuff that didn't.

[@sargeantshithead]

'Its badbecause soldiers broke rules' Wow Im so glad Ive never seen that before in Star Wars

[@aa-jr1fq]

The only reason the Battle of Scarif worked out is because of Pao.

[@larryjones5889]

Wat Tambor Skalla!

[@CT--my4lf]

His full name is Paodok"Draba"Takat Sap'de'rektinik'Linek'ti Ki'Vef'Nik' Ne Sevef'Li'Kek

[@elementaljedi9335]

Do the battle of Utapau plzz from ep3

[@enlightenbyyah8470]

I like the music with this so calming

[@davidwhitehead3089]

Correction: The Star Destroyers in Empire Strikes Back never actually struck each other, and they also still had their shields.

[@Decembirth]

It's not Disney, it is Kathleen Kennedy.

[@Lordonrav1]

I liked this video because Generation Tech liked this film more than the Fart Awakens! lol

[@Alex-ji6ob]

Lordonrav1 >The Fart Awakens You guys aren't even trying with these names anymore are you?

[@Lordonrav1]

NOPE lol, pardon me, I had to relieve some gassy Jar Jar Abrams brand beans from my bowels. wooow the smell it stinks of a potent kylo flavored lol all in good fun.

[@Alex-ji6ob]

Lordonrav1 And people give TFA shit for being uncreative...

[@larryjones5889]

Lordonrav1 *Farce engorges lol

[@MikMoen]

*Armchair Admiral mode: Engaged* Step 1: Immediately deploy Y-Wings to neutralize Capital ships. Step 2: X-Wings escorting the U-Wings focus fire Proton Torpedoes on the Gate Shield Station's Hangar Bays, destroying it's ability to launch it's TIEs. Step 3: Once Space superiority is established, the Fleet can then begin to pick away at the Gate Shield Station as it wants.

[@Odrikah]

THANK YOU, nobody else seems to notice these points.

[@tlb84gaming5]

Let's not forget Tarkin's awful decision to use the Death Star laser to destroy the Imperial base on Scarif. And leave the rebel fleet that just destroyed two Star Destroyers. To Darth Vader's lone Star Destroyer. Instead of using the thousands of turbo laser batteries on the Death Star to vaporize the rebel fleet in a few seconds.

[@N3xtStopHell]

TLB84 Gaming What was the problem. Vader’s capital ship was not a typical star destroyer. It had more guns and armor compared to the others. And if you ask me, Vader did fine, his capital ship was able to wipe out the remaining fleet and immobilize the rebel capital ship.

[@ChevyChase301]

TLB84 Gaming what would you use to kill an ant? A tank or a boot? A boot would be much more accurate.

[@MrShadowpanther3]

But if you have the tank already on scene and rolling...

[@177SCmaro]

Illuminati Confirmed Where was it mentioned in the movie that Darth Vader's Star Destroyer was specially equipped? That sounds like something you just made up. Those other two Star Destroyers should have easily been able to destroy the small Rebel Fleet. If I remember right the Rebels only brought one real capital ship to that fight.

[@177SCmaro]

chris pearson Upgraded from completely useless to what one would expect a massive warship be capable of?

[@blbradford73]

First

[@Emperorofthemoon1]

Can we just talk about Vader at the end there? His life support apparatus has little indicator lights on it...which he TURNED OFF so he could stay hidden until he ignited his lightsaber. He turned off his life support for the sake of making a dramatic entrance. Vader is so fucking extra and I love it.

[@EthanCruise]

Star destroyers does have Shields, but that particular star destroyer's shield was disabled during the fight, and that was why they decided to summon the hammerhead corvette.