Evidence Against God

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This is my opening and closing arguments from my debate, "Is the evidence for or against God" vs "Jake the Muslim Metaphysician".
• Is There a God? | Aron...
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[@AronRa]

I should note that in a debate asking "is there evidence for or against God", I listed all these facts in evidence against God, and my opponent collectively dismissed them all with a single word; “irrelevant”. He actually said that the facts of the matter are irrelevant in a debate of whether there are any facts in evidence. Instead, he complained that my opening did not address his opening argument, even though both of our opening presentations were written before either of us could know what the other would say. I at least guessed-correctly-that he wouldn’t present even one single fact, no objectively verifiable data whatsoever, that he would present arguments instead of evidence, and that his argument would be logically invalid, just like it was last time. Because circular assumptions (the question-begging fallacy) is all he knows, and all of his arguments depend on a non-sequitur, an unwarranted assumption that is not implied in his contrived premises. I also correctly predicted that because he has no comprehension of science at all, he would ignore all of my evidence without addressing or even thinking about any of it. Because he knows he cannot defend the Muslim god that he worships, not on the facts in evidence. Then all he can do is try to defend a Deistic god instead of the one he is supposed to represent.

[@Dennistube001]

yes thats very annoying. saying you didnt address any of my points. but it was your opening. the audience then thinking the other guy scores points. i loved your why do you believe series. more please

[@motorheadbanger90]

You were debating a religious fundamentalist, you should've expected them to be completely dishonest.

[@MegaChickenfish]

It'd be nice if they at least came up with new material. You'd genuinely think for an argument that's been going on for over 2000 years I wouldn't have heard them all within around 5.

[@klue507]

Must be frustrating debating these guys. I thank you, Matt ,(and others) for powering through the nonsense over and over.

[@jesseriker3076]

Where is it written that life has to have meaning?

[@itsROMPERS...]

It's incredible that we are still arguing about complete nonsense in the 21st century.

[@InigoMontoya-]

With an attitude like that, you will not get any presents from Santa.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I don't find it "incredible" but that's because the word "nonsense" certainly alludes to something different than my perception of God's existence. In my understanding, people in general are seeking a better understanding of the meaning to life. Whether it be through the study of Philosophy or Psychology or religions, many people are cognizant that there's "more to life". I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you. I think I understand your comments. I even think I understand your preference for the words "complete nonsense". So no problem. By the way, I don't even like arguments, especially in reference to religion. I don't even like the word "religion". Respectfully from Florida...

[@Richdragon4]

​@@InigoMontoya-That is a serious threat. Now I am going to be on the naughty list! 😮

[@Jack-qz4sm]

Child indoctrination and brainwashing isnt going away anytime soon I'm afraid. Billions of people on this planet have an imaginary friend. I can't fathom the mindset of the religious at all. They are in complete denial

[@raptorcrasherinc.9823]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Well I will not get into a long argument if it makes you uncomfortable, but I will ask you what evidence there is that there is "more to life". I cannot think of any.

[@JasonUnpastorized]

How come god never just shows up to these debates?

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

And these sort of debates have been happening for some time now

[@Soapy-chan]

he's too high and mighty for that apparently... except when in the quran he shows up

[@plattbagarn]

The omni-present god had another appointment at that time, so he sent his strongest soldier.

[@spaztor7723]

hes right there waring the shades

[@scoterf]

Which 1? :p

[@d353rt3ur]

AronRa's explanation should be shown to all students over the world.

[@hasegawataizo4069]

Yes! We must eradicate God from even our thoughts.

[@josephsmyth832]

@@hasegawataizo4069Do you know what prudence is? Your comment is foolish and insane

[@herbieshine1312]

@hasegawataizo4069 or perhaps put god into its proper place as an outdated way of making sense of what we didnt/ don't know

[@hasegawataizo4069]

@@herbieshine1312 bruh . . .

[@michaelcrawford3796]

Absolutely

[@TheEyez187]

The best evidence against God is that there's no evidence for God! Damn, beautiful, powerful statement!

[@neonshadow5005]

That or just refer to the Bible, or any holy book .. they do a pretty good job of disproving their Gods.

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

​@@neonshadow5005Spot on. The bible makes the orbiting teapot more believable than YHWH.

[@SebastianLundh1988]

I mean, from a pantheist perspective, you can *literally* see God.

[@ArKritz84]

@@SebastianLundh1988 Yeah, it's what everybody else calls "reality" or "the universe".

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I know my following statement is used too often but I immediately thought of it when I read the comment of " the best evidence against God is that there's no evidence of God". The statement is "Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence". I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you or other atheists. I simply disagree with the comments. Respectfully from Florida...

[@zachfinemusic]

Imagine in fundamentalist cults allowed their followers to watch just this 16 minute video when children were young. Imagine how much better life would be

[@joeanthony7759]

@johnhiggs325Wow, not much hope in humanity there. I don’t blame you. Not everyone is simple and shallow, however

[@craigsmith1443]

Of course, the Soviet Union was a paradise. The French Revolution didn't become the Reign of Terror. Secular people don't cancel anyone. No one in America is lied about. No cake baker is hounded time after time by the vindictive who just want to ruin him. Yes, getting rid of fundamentalism will make the world a utopia.

[@paulsilsby5355]

Well said Aron. So pleased that people like you are standing up to the religious nutters

[@polycera8570]

Even while listening to the shortcomings of religious belief being brutally exposed by Aron Jake just sits there and shakes his head. He refuses to accept that he is wrong. You are lost, Jake.

[@barriewilliams4526]

Nice hat though😂

[@theunholinesswithin70]

Which is what makes religious belief psychological, and why everyone needs to get away from facts, and start questioning them instead.

[@FYMASMD]

@@theunholinesswithin70like science and not delusions? Because belief in a god is delusional.

[@theunholinesswithin70]

??@@FYMASMD

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

doesn't his cosplay outfit say enough about the reason he has invested into his worldviews?

[@somethingsinlife5600]

Gotta keep the peasants and slaves believing in heaven and scare them of hell...Otherwise they might start thinking about making the only life they have better and start questioning our Authority and Right to Rule

[@Richdragon4]

Horrible. If they rebel we would need to actually pay living wage for services. Never.

[@justapassione5554]

Huh? Do you really think that religious people set up this capitalist system? Whatever you smoking right now should be banned.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

The apologists NEVER listen do they? The DISRESPECT of the guy on the left pretending to be busy.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

Respect is very important for good communication.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 ah yes, tone policing, the last refuge of an intellectual scoundrel.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​@@satyasyasatyasya5746I don't understand your comments. Sorry.

[@r0bw00d]

@rboland2173No, he's cheating on a test because Aron is inadvertently giving him the answers to it.

[@kellywalker1664]

That's how I listen to speeches and lectures. If I looked at them "respectfully" I wouldn't retain squat.

[@BTFWayne]

I will never get over the fact Jake came to a debate to defend islam while dressed like bacon. His argument of 'microphones are real, therefore god' was so bad, the mic tried to leave the debate.

[@adropofgoldensun27]

😂

[@MarkoVukovic0]

Dressed like bacon, brilliant! 🤣👏🏽

[@ultralightcam6963]

🤣🤣🤣🏆

[@00SEVEN28]

🤣Now I can't unsee it.

[@LibraBlue1962]

I find it most annoying when religious zealots insist that Atheists or "Secularists" are out to take away their faith. I have nothing against people who want to hold on to their belief systems, provided they don't try to enforce it on the unwilling. To quote Hitchens on this: "I'm fine with you wanting to play with your toys, just don't bring them to my home and insist I play with them."

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

And I have nothing against atheists or agnostics or people of other beliefs. Respect is very important to understand things and respect is the best way for communication. Peace to you...

[@McNerdius]

A good point i've heard Matt Dillahunty make on this topic - even if they're not directly pushing their religion on others, they've demonstrated that they are willing to believe things that aren't true, and potentially accept/spread non-religious falsehoods. More of a broad, educational POV.

[@PuffyCloud_aka_puffeclaude]

Ever notice when Aron says that the more religious you are the more you're likely to be abusive, that no one ever pushes back? I suspect they suspect he's right. Intuitively.

[@0x777]

It's easy to show that any kind of doctrine or ideology promotes atrocities. Because for people who have no moral problems committing atrocities, the presence or absence of an ideology makes no difference, but a person who has a conscience needs an ideology to commit them, or they would not.

[@blueVesper]

My friend mother was extremely religious and abusive towards her kids and husband..... now she is in psychiatry hospital ...

[@trishayamada807]

The only time I was ever hit growing up was when I got so angry at my mother for not answering my plea for help and she told me to pray on it to get my answer. I called her a Fu¢king god freak. Yeah, bad choices in words, but it was and still is true. God was her imaginary helper parent I guess.

[@raptorcrasherinc.9823]

@@0x777 Well said.

[@raptorcrasherinc.9823]

For me and my history of bullying and abuse, it has always been people that have power over me that cause this. Most of them are religious, but all of them have power. I would say that power over others is just as important a factor, perhaps more so than religion.

[@MgtowRubicon]

Q: What would be different about reality if God didn't exist? A: No difference. Q: If God has no determinable existence, then why believe that God is real? A: Because I'm scared to death of dying.

[@tabularasa0606]

So start living.

[@stephenlesliebrown5959]

Yes. Fear of death is a fundamental cause for the inception of religion into humanity long, long ago.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I think there are other answers to your questions that we could consider. But no problem. Respectfully ...

[@Jack-qz4sm]

I think death anxiety could possibly be the main factor to believing in a god an afterlife etc. The thought of ceasing to exist is just too much for them. This life is just a place to wipe your feet. The Afterlife is what it's all about. It's so sad

[@BennyTwennyGrand]

Bingo!!!

[@MTB_Rider_96]

How Effing Ridiculous that we still need to have these debates in these modern times. So many gullible people out there, and so many religious zealots out there to take advantage of that childish gullibility. Rock-On Aron! Your work is Amazing!

[@DarthVaderfr]

Give it a couple of decades and we will forget about all of that, I'm willing to bet that I'll need to explain to my grandchildren that people used to kill other people because their imaginary collective friends told them so

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@DarthVaderfrthere will always be stupid and ignorant people who are easily manipulated, especially when it’s done when they’re young. Critical thinking has to be taught to most people.

[@markshort9098]

​@@DarthVaderfr with how ignorant and dumb there's people are , suspect you be rusty off try to explain how ever survived without disobeying themselves is a rubber.. the fact people like exist is a sad state of affairs for a.. children don't know have a problem with there flashed concepts but abultd are ridiculously lost

[@aninternetuser8102]

@@DarthVaderfr As long as religion is useful to those in power, it will never vanish, sadly.

[@raptorcrasherinc.9823]

@@aninternetuser8102 EXACTLY! Man made god and saw that it was profitable.

[@herbieshine1312]

Jake did the usual in this debate and gave nothing to prove his god. The utter lack of thought from him and his like is depressing and disturbing. On a lighter note, you looked damned sharp in your shades Mr Ra🕶😎

[@Obeijin]

Hey , the other guy has a cool hat .

[@zverh]

​@@flat_earth_foreverDid he present a contingency argument for a necessary being? If yes, then the argument is bunk.

[@herbieshine1312]

@flat_earth_forever I'd have to listen to it again to give a proper opinion and i can't put myself though that again. The Earth is a sphere!

[@stefansmith4313]

​@@flat_earth_foreveroh look, the flat earth moron, you have no evidence for your delusions.

[@zverh]

@@flat_earth_forever The existence of propositions itself is dubious, and as such the arguments for theistic conceptualism which is an adaptation of platonism.

[@tomsenior7405]

I have already watched the Theist response to this video. Oh dear. The response consists of: "Do not listen to this man", followed by the same false claims and tired old debunked arguments. All it takes to believe is a willingness to ignore the truth, and a devotion to lies. Sad. Shame on you, believers.

[@Anonymous-jw3mk]

When you lie an accidently tell the truth, it's still a lie. When you tell something you know with evidence it's the truth.

[@azertyqwerty5946]

No it's not a lie. You don't need to know with evidence in order for it to be the truth. The truth is independent of you knowing it or being able to prove it.

[@David34981]

@@azertyqwerty5946 That doesn't mean it's not a lie. Abraham Lincoln was right when he said: "I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood"

[@Anonymous-jw3mk]

@@azertyqwerty5946 The word lie is not based upon truth it's based upon intention. Saying you know something you don't is a lie even if you accidently find out it's true.

[@azertyqwerty5946]

@@Anonymous-jw3mk Perhaps I misunderstood you. So just to clarify my position. If someone says literally these words: "I know what the truth is'' without actually knowing it, then I agree with you. In that case it would be a lie. But if somebody for example says there is a banana in the box thinking there is an apple in the box, but then it happens to be the case that there really is a banana, which would make his statement true by accident, in that case it would not be a lie, regardless of whether he thought there was a banana or an apple in the box.

[@azertyqwerty5946]

@@David34981 If you tell something true without intending it by accident, then it's not a lie by definition. 1) To make an untrue statement with intent of deception. 2) To create a false or misleading impression. 1) If the statement is true then it's not an untrue statement so according to the first definition it would not be a lie. 2) According to the second definition it's still not a lie because a true statement is not a false or misleading impression because it's true. According to both definitions a truth by accident would not be a lie regardless of whether you intended it or not. What Abraham Lincoln said is simply false if taken literally. But obviously he didn't mean it literally, it's just a very appealing and poetic way of saying that it's wrong to make assertions without knowing. It's like saying ''your silence says so much about you.'' Obviously silence doesn't speak but it's just a way of saying.

[@jasonbelanger7525]

This was so refreshing. Usually we have to sit through the god-awful five year old arguments that make me want to turn it off, but instead we get the definitive nail in the religious coffin. Brilliant. Thank you once again Aron for your patience in constantly re-iterating and demonstrating that religions are fairy tales.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I'm a Christian believer but I dislike the word "religious" myself. So no problem when you said "the definitive nail in the religious coffin". In fact, I like that phrase. However I don't necessarily equate the existence of God with a "religion". Although I consider myself as a Christian believer, I place my priority in Jesus Christ Himself and not Christianity because I struggle too much with understanding some doctrines and interpretations within Christianity. I seldom listen to this channel but I'm here because I'm somewhat open-minded and I'm interested in both theistic and atheist viewpoints. I'm not very scholarly so I seldom use "arguments" in my comments. Respectfully from Florida...

[@Richdragon4]

​@@johnbrzykcy3076You aren't religious, because you struggle to understand doctrines. Yet you are Christian. So your reason to not be religious is ignorance. That is horrible, but as an anti theist I have to take every small victory as a success. Anyway, always find something interesting on the Net every day.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​​@@Richdragon4I don't quite follow what you are saying. I think I didn't express my thoughts correctly. So I apologize to you. I never said that I'm not religious because I " struggle to understand doctrines". Did I say that? If I did, my statement was wrong. I simply meant I don't consider myself as "religious " but that is like opening a can of worms because "religious" can imply most anything in society. Right? And no, I was not saying that my reason "to not be religious" is ignorance. Did I say that too or is that your interpretation ( assumption)? It's difficult on here for me to express correctly what I intend to say. Wow... no wonder so many people misunderstood Jesus' teachings. By the way, I'm not trying to compare my lack of explaining things to the way Jesus taught. No way ! There's no "victory" in a lack of communication and misunderstanding. But if you perceive it as such, so be it. Peace and respect to you...

[@danmurray1143]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Sounds like you are picking & choosing what parts of the Christian religion you wish to believe. LOL, you can do that, but then you'll be despised by both religious & atheists. Welcome nowhere when you go that route.

[@Richdragon4]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 No assumption. You literally said you struggle to understand Christian doctrines and teachings. That is at least one of the reasons you aren't religious. Anything more distant from religion is a victory through the lens of anti-theism. Though I agree. Describing yourself as religious can mean so many things. Irreligious theists aren't that rare, yet the reasons always baffle me.

[@bodan1196]

"God made me as I am." Believing in a Creator allows you to ultimately reject responsibility for your actions. This is the subconscious hook that is soo adictive. It is thus, actually the believer who can "sin" with a clear conscience, as it is all God's plan. Even your misdeeds.

[@TrangleC]

Yes. To most people that God just seems to be a tool they use to forgive their sins to themselves. They think because that God knows everything and sees inside their hearts or whatever, that means he surely understand why they had to do the bad things they did and he is the ultimate authority, so he can forgive them and they don't have to worry about the human victims of their actions forgiving them.

[@josephsmyth832]

Didn’t prudence create reality?

[@wilsontexas]

Ridiculous straw man. Stop making up things.

[@stefansmith4313]

​@@wilsontexas you sound desperate.

[@mascot4950]

You could technically make the same claim of determinism, so you don't need a god concept if your goal is to find a way to pretend you're not responsible for your actions. I'd argue you would be equally full of it, but at least with determinism you'd have scientific support for the basic premise, and thus something to talk about.

[@MgtowRubicon]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods and they are unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I was not aware of this quote by Marcus Aurelius. I'm a Christian believer but I find these statements very interesting and thought-provoking. Peace to you from Florida

[@bootskanchelsis3337]

I feel terrible for all of the people on the planet that cannot express what Aron did here without consequence of ostracization, violence, or death. .

[@craigsmith1443]

None of those live in North America. In fact, Christians are becoming the persecuted ones. Ask the FBI and the IRS.

[@thomasgregory4871]

I didn't realize it was possible to drop a mic for 16 minutes and 15 seconds straight, but there you have it.

[@paulcontursi5982]

Fantastic! Well done, Aron!

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Admittedly, I'm tempted to do this with all these debates, Selective edit of the good parts. Very few Muslim apologists Have any cogent arguments.

[@dyamonde9555]

they dont have to, since the people they talk to usually are not allowed to disagree with them by threat of force. Christian Apologetics were just as bad back when the church still had the iron fist.

[@jessicadavis3989]

I can’t respect anyone’s argument that aggressively tells women to sit down like that dude did in one of his debates! Like how did he think he would win over any women by doing that? I have watched 3 debates with him in it. It’s always long winded word salad and ramblings that are hard to follow let alone sit through!

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​@@jessicadavis3989 I think listening carefully to the discussion with respect is important for good communication. Peace...

[@Yakkityyak248]

Very few is extremely kind of you. I was thinking along the lines of zero, but I'm probably a bad man

[@hamobu]

I'm an ex-muslim, and I was told that non-Muslims can go to heaven unless they are told of Islam and decide to reject it. I guess there's no one Islam.

[@stultusvenator3233]

I know of another Ex-Muslim who began the journey to recovery after living in 3 different countries growing up and saw 3 different versions of Islam. It was the eye opener for her.

[@qkqk6954]

​@@stultusvenator3233so if an atheist humanist and atheist non-humanist exist that makes atheism false too?

[@stultusvenator3233]

@@qkqk6954 Humanism has nothing to do with Atheism. Atheism is not a thing; it is a stance or response to one proposition only. That there is a god/goddesses/gods. Atheism rejects that claim -prove it.

[@Treeman84]

I watched the debate, when I watch a debate I try to be neural as best as I can to listen to both sides, just maybe the opposition might have point or bring something to the table, but they did not. I was in the comments section from before the debate, people declared Jake the winner beforehand. I was thinking this guy must be good. Just a bunch of fan boys with fingers in their ears, I like Aron and would be lying if I did feel a little in his corner, but I still wanted to hear what Jake had to say but he said nothing.

[@simongiles9749]

I've yet to see a religious apologist (or "excusegist", per Mr Deity) who hasn't been disappointing in what they present.

[@Treeman84]

​@flat_earth_forever was it you that was also commenting to TVK or whatever his name was?

[@Angelmou]

Yeah we saw again how several tribal muslim cheerleaders and fanboys did flock the comment section to aid their brother in faith for the old tribalistic notion of family support. It does not matter if the muslim "debater" would be a mindless rock with googly eyes glued and a painted smile on the surface of the rock or if the muslim debater would argue for that the moon would be made out of green cheese... The muslim always "destroys" "annhilates" "decimates" "teach the a lesson" against the opponent outside member of the faith family in the eyes of the tribal brothers and sisters. And also with double and triple sock accounts. The opponent is always a shaitan spawn. But why is that so? Arguments, debating what might be true, solid evidence or where this "destruction" supposed to have happened with time stamps and places...is never mentioned in the first place and ultimately not existent. When such people comment like bots they most of the time did not even click the triangle to play. It is at least never mentioned by name with any contextual examples. So neutral viewers just realize how childish and stone-age tribal style those types of comments truly are rather quickly. If a muslim brother in the eyes of the cheerleading fanboy/fangirl did a sloppery... he had just a bad day, but he is still a "total super genius" and most welcome as good brother - the opponent is always a demonic spawn of iblis or something regardless if the opponent would just say mundane dailyday things like that grass is green or the sky is blue. You can see why muslims and Islam in a broader sense as ideology lacks comment and debate moral or any real honor for an honest debate about these topics...SADLY. It is not figuring out the truth together as humans coming together. It is an envisioned "gangster street battle" like a rap battle who can hit more "your momma" jokes - or worse: to use any dishonerable move (like a knife in the back or a kick in the lower region) to "bring down" an opponent. This is why comment sections lack any substance with those fanboyish posts, which speak way louder than anything "debated". It is about "We" vs. "Them" ingroup vs. Outgroup and call for insults, war and violance against those who are just "different" than their brothers in faith. What the topic is about does not matter! Can people once stay to the topic and put their tribal feelings aside to jump to aid their supposed "family member"? No... obviously not. It remains the usual apish circus. And then someone tries to say that we would be in the image of some glorious being and not primates.

[@Treeman84]

@@flat_earth_forever Yes. I told him my glass is half full and ready to learn, I said to him he thinks he knows it all I think I may have said sitting in his box with his book, if I did not say that then I should have. I asked him about 4 times for evidence for God, he started telling me I was emotional, which I was not it was a genuine question if he had all the answers then present them or shut up.

[@DarthVaderfr]

It will occur to you that the people that comments are usually the most polarised once, so you won't notice those muslims or atheist that actually listened, for the most part I myself admit of being extremely polarized on this topic since i happen to not believe that a book that states that the world is a dome, with corners, and that the whale are fish can't be the word of god so i barely listen to extremist religious people

[@vincakemukujara2500]

Great debate, thanks Aron!

[@ZoeSummers1701A]

It’s hardly a debate when every Islamist has the mental capacity of a fetid cabbage. It’s like shooting dead fish in a barrel with a nuke.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

I don't what it is, but I look at all apologists like I do n@zis. There's just something so... evil about them. Professional liars - what a waste of a life, and what harm they do! I can't with these 'people'

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

Nazis were still people. Remember, they thought they were fighting the righteous war to strengthen their country and thus bring success and wealth to their fellow German. A problem they overlooked was that they dehumanized people... so don't fall into that trap as well.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

Who are you referring to as "apologists"? I don't think that "all" apologists are "liars" but it depends on how you define a "liar". I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you. Peace.

[@ninam.6781]

Because they essentially hate others that don't believe in what they believe and used to or still do call for the execution of non-believers.

[@MegaChickenfish]

While I'd call that an exaggeration, I do think you're correctly identifying people who lie intentionally for a living. It's really quite simple: *If you start by assuming your conclusion, and your primary endgoal is CONVINCING people of said conclusion* (no apologist would argue I'm defining them perfectly at this point) *then why the fuck would you care about evidence when fallacies are demonstrably easier to do and more convincing to people who are already primed to be gullible?*

[@MgtowRubicon]

Priests, Ministers, Rabbis, Imams, Pujari, etc. want the power to control other people and they are scared to death of dying. Speaking on behalf of an invisible friend (who is all powerful and can grant immortality to a person's worldview awareness) is the greatest deceit over other people ever devised. *"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair*

[@adropofgoldensun27]

Aron Ra is the master of Reason and Logic and demonstrates it Excellently in this video. Thank you Aron!

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Is he? How so? Any evidence?

[@adropofgoldensun27]

@@turkoositerapsidi yes, that is my opinion. I make that stand by viewing his many videos. I also compare with several others in this field and concluded he is what I claim.

[@iregretjumping]

It's a fallacy to say X doesn't exist because of a lack of evidence, but a lack of evidence is a damn good reason to not believe in X. If we dont have any evidence X happened and some good evidence that X couldn't have happened, its a sound conclusion to say this didn't happen.

[@DarthObscurity]

He doesn't say definitively that it doesn't exist, he says there is no reason to even consider it without evidence that it's at least possible. I don't even consider looking for evidence that Superman and Goku exist for the same reason I don't look for evidence that god exists. Because everything I know about reality says it isn't even possible.

[@55Quirll]

I lack a belief in a god or gods for the same reason, a lack of evidence. Now to change my mind, all that would be needed would be that god or gods provide me with evidence that would make me change my mind. If such a god/gods exist then they would know exactly what evidence I would need.

[@yoshisaidit7250]

@@DarthObscurity Oh, but is it evident that their particular god/s dont exist. their definition of their god contradicts, making it impossible for their god to exist. Aron does say their god cannot exist, just not in this video.

[@ghostwhite1648]

@@55Quirll Look into your own human senses. Science tells us that things are not exactly what they seem. Our brain projects our reality through our senses. Data interpreted into reality. A CREATED reality. You are NOT the creator!

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

​@@55QuirllAt the very least, I would need recordable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence for souls.

[@morganramsay7628]

Oh My Hitch, this is the best so far to date!!

[@sunshowerpainting1]

The very best thing we could do for our world is leave behind bronze and iron age beliefs, replacing it with humanism.

[@wilsontexas]

Like abortion and forced injections and all horrors for "the greater good?"

[@wilsontexas]

Like abortion and forced injections and all horrors for "the greater good?"

[@wilsontexas]

Like abortion and forced injections and all horrors for "the greater good?"

[@Z4r4sz]

@@wilsontexas Yeah, those pesky human rights, work ethics, caring for the sick, protecting society from deadly germs, wearing helmets at construction sites... So terrible. DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSION!!

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@wilsontexasif your favourite deity exists, it is the most prolific abortionist around, as between 10 and 20 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

Straight to the content, I love it! You were extremely eloquent, Aron. I would vote for you to be a Texas Senator if I could.

[@kylemoore7746]

This has been so well refined, I really ought to just pull up this video anytime someone questions my lack of belief instead of arguing with them

[@MgtowRubicon]

"In all of human history, the supernatural has never turned out to be the right answer to anything: Natural explanations of phenomena have replaced supernatural ones thousands upon thousands of times, while supernatural explanations have replaced natural ones exactly never." -- Greta Christina

[@michaelmoore7975]

"Throughout history, religion has been excoriated while atheism claims enlightenment and freedom and "having the right answer"; but the truth remains there is no factual, provable, demonstrable evidence of any kind that shows atheism (actually anti-theism) is in any way shape or form.....more beneficial, more advantageous, altruistic, valuable, useful, or more worthwhile than religion in any metric or category." -- _Me_

[@kenhoover1639]

​@@michaelmoore7975at least we don't lie to ourselves and our children.

[@michaelmoore7975]

@@kenhoover1639 And I bet that's a lie you tell yourself and your children. Lies are the faults of men, not religions.

[@MegaChickenfish]

@@michaelmoore7975 Me? I've become more altruistic and empathetic after leaving religion. I'm less closed off and more willing to hear out other people instead of shutting them out as "sinners". I inherently recognize the evils of concepts like eternal torture where I didn't before. I want to help people *now* and not delude myself into thinking I can just help them later after we're all dead. My altruism is stronger and more urgent than ever. Just because you've never met an atheist doesn't mean you can make assessments like that. Any more than any of the shitty things I thought about the LGBT+ community before I met some of them and heard their stories.

[@michaelmoore7975]

​@@MegaChickenfish What assessments do you mean? Remember that word "assessment". As for your religiously unimpeded altruism and empathy I sincerely respect and commend you. Those are qualities and attributes everyone should follow and aspire to. "A life lived helping others is a life worth living." My Grandmother would have said, "God sees to it even atheists do the good work of Jesus." But realistically, we both know altruism is not exclusive to religion, correct? You see, every time I go to comments like these involving religion, it always seems as if I am guided to a person who lays out exactly the points I wish to highlight. It happens so often I believe it to be more than the probability of coincidence. But I won't call it supernatural intention or some pre-ordained circumstance. I'll just call it _kismet._ You, like others, provide all I need to make my point. And make it with obviousness and clarity. You do not like it when an "assessment" is applied indiscriminately to a group you happen to belong to. Because it may just be that you or someone else _may belong to that group,_ but exhibit none of the factors that make the assessment. IOW you may be an atheist, but that doesn't mean you are not altruistic, etc. And that is true. It is also true that atheism does not make you immune from hypocrisy or believing without evidence things that aren't true. Your assessment of religion is the perfect example. You say, _"I inherently recognize the evils of concepts like eternal torture...."_ That is nowhere to be found in the Christian Bible. It is something you believe to be true. Without evidence. You say: _I want to help people now and not delude myself into thinking I can just help them later after we're all dead._ You ARE deluding yourself. All you need to do is look in any online US newspaper and see untold numbers of religious organizations and churche programs like Loaves and Fishes, a toy drive, a shelter pet "family for life" program, delivering food for the elderly and disabled. Grocery shopping for disabled and elderly. Food programs for the less than fortunate and financially strapped. Meals on Wheels. Adopt a shelter pet for life. Food drives. Food and meds delivering for the disabled. Latchkey kid shelters. After school programs. I can go on forever. And curiously I don't see one atheist program or community involvement of any kind. And finally, I believe what you say about your altruism etc. I believe it without evidence. I have faith what you say is true. You would not be able to say the same. You say: _I'm less closed off and more willing to hear out other people instead of shutting them out as "sinners"_ The reality that you have conveniently provided is because of your inability to believe without evidence and refused faith demonstrate you are MORE closed off and LESS willing to hear out other people. And I demonstrate MORE open mindedness by virtue of faith and belief and shutting out LESS. And what does being called a "sinner" supposed to mean to an atheist? To be called that should be no more demeaning or negative than calling you a daffodil. And I wont't call you either. Promise. Thus endeth today's lesson. Be well. Good Fortune and Goodwill to you and your loved ones. Sincerely.

[@DataJack]

Well said, as usual.

[@francpez7564]

Another great video. Thank you for posting.

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

Did anyone understand what evidence Jake actually brought to the debate because i sure didnt

[@herbieshine1312]

Oh yes clearly nothing!

[@zverh]

I watched a few minutes of the debate. He proved the existence of the microphone on his table, though that was not the topic of the debate.

[@josephsmyth832]

You’re not defining evidence because there’s two types of evidence. Clearly people arguing about God can’t even point out the difference in evidence. You’re no different than a religious zealot

[@fepeerreview3150]

@@josephsmyth832 If you don't mind explaining, what are the 2 types of evidence you refer to?

[@Angelmou]

Oh the evidence was Nothing, none, zilch, nada...

[@hughhopwood7421]

This debate was just painful to watch. Aron tried to keep Jake on topic, but he just kept chattering on, never addressing the point of the debate. The amount of smoke he blew was astounding.

[@RS-ls7mm]

You can't debate a muslim, I doubt they even recognize anyone else is in the room. The muslim's arrogance is one of the worst.

[@ElvisTranscriber2]

Thanks for the debates. Aronra. Yore amazing

[@thinkbeyond3457]

Why do we allow theists debates to go past 30 seconds. They have no evidence so what is there to talk about? 😄

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

Because it's fun to watch them squirm when they realize they can't win. 😈😈😈🎉

[@FYMASMD]

We are being polite. Unlike a lot of them.

[@michaelmoore7975]

It's the only way for atheists to distract from the fact there is no provable, demonstrable, factual evidence that atheism, (actually anti-theism) is in any way shape or form.....more beneficial, more advantageous, altruistic, valuable, useful, or more worthwhile than religion in any metric or category. Also, it is a fact that atheists and religious fundamentalists are on the same intellectual level and both completely wrong. The idiot fundamentalist is wrong because his incorrect interpretations ignore context. And the atheist is wrong because he believes the incorrect interpretations of idiots are worthy of debate or argument.

[@EdwinHeida]

Excellent piece, from start to finish. Something I fully agree with. Thank you for all your contributions Aron. I hope many will watch, listen, and hopefully think about this.

[@perryedwards4746]

That whole grand statement, should be held as gospel in itself... The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... What Aron has done as made a document of utter majesty.. The whole thing is a pure act of the evolution of the mind... May the cosmos sigh in relieve!!!

[@momszycat4148]

Excellent, Aron.

[@user-pw6ei2mn7x]

So concise and exact. Not a word wasted. Thank you AronRa and thank you to all the supportive commentaries. 🍀🍀🍀

[@craigsmith1443]

_So concise and exact. Not a word wasted_ Because not a thought tried.

[@James-wc3fc]

This is why we love you Aron! You've encouraged me to be a lot more vocal and honest about my atheism

[@wagsman9999]

If I ever run into Aron, I'm buying him a beer (or two).

[@flyingsodwai1382]

Thanks for this. It reminds me of the good ole days of the Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism.

[@MrJimbissle]

The quality of writing/thinking and off the cuff arguments Aron is capable of, Demonstrate clear focus, stripping away distractions, getting to the core of the matter , often way ahead of the 'Horse' he is leading to the 'water'. Almost flawlessly, from the years of practice and knowing what he is talking about. Its just great to watch and great for so many who seek reality.

[@itsROMPERS...]

The only argument for believing is simply, "I wanna believe!"

[@Catholictomherbert]

True belief involves not just a desire but also a sincere and obedient response to God's Word. James 2:14-26

[@itsROMPERS...]

@@Catholictomherbert What is it with you people and circular reasoning? "The Bible is true, it says so right in the Bible!" Internet scammers love people like you!

[@quandilustenbinguslorsodo1501]

illogical

[@itsROMPERS...]

@@quandilustenbinguslorsodo1501 Mr Spock enters the chat.

[@ysgol3]

Thank you so much Aron - subscribed. This should be shown daily in every school in the world, and in places of 'worship' whenever 'worshipers' gather to 'worship'.

[@ChipArgyle]

If legislators allow religion in public schools, where church and state are to be separated, then this video should be mandatory viewing in houses of worship.

[@devinbraun1852]

What a beautiful direct, concise and brutal takedowns of theism, particularly the Abrahamic trifecta.

[@tvtubeme7605]

The idea of a God has been effectively disemboweled.

[@quandilustenbinguslorsodo1501]

No it hasn't, and Aronra continue to misdefine the word "Faith", And proceeds to hide in his burden

[@Anastaecia]

I don't even understand religious debates. A book of magical stories says a thing. So what? What exactly is there to debate?

[@charlestownsend9280]

​@@Nic_Bso the Greek gods are real cause the illiad mentions real historical people and the city of troy.

[@ravenwda007]

@@Nic_B So Spider-Man is real because he lives and fights crime in New York City?

[@CanadAssassiN]

It’s easier to convince someone of a lie, than it is to convince someone that they’ve been lied to. And that’s why religion in general will never die

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

I remember a routine by Dave Allen about a pope debating an Atheist, in which the pope described the Atheist as being like a blind man, who's locked in a totally darkened room, looking for a black cat that isn't there. To which the Atheist replied "On that we're quite similar". The pope scowled back "How so?" The Atheist then called the pope as being like a blind man,who's locked in a totally darkened room, looking for a black cat that isn't there, the only difference between us, is that you found it".

[@timg7627]

It’s truly amazing we share the planet with billions of people who genuinely believe there’s an invisible man in the sky that created everything.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

It may be "amazing" but we still should be respectful to "those billions of people". I'm not trying to imply that you're not. The "invisible man in the sky" may simply be a pointer to something deeper, something within our hearts and minds that seeks a better understanding of the meaning to life. By the way, I wonder if the "invisible man" could have created invisible people? Or maybe robots? Anyhow... again I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I was just playing with the words. Peace to you from Florida...

[@timg7627]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 nope absolutely not. They don’t deserve respect nor are they entitled to respect. This aura of this untouchable taboo around criticizing or mocking religion has resulted in theses institutions steamrolling rational thought, discourse and the advancement of mankind for centuries. The fact you’re advocating for the continuation of this behavior is equally disturbing.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​@@timg7627I don't understand. What do you mean by "the fact that you're advocating for the continuation of this behavior..? What behavior are you implying? I am not advocating for " steamrolling rational thought". Is that what you meant? I have no problem with reasoning. I also have no problem with criticism of religious beliefs as long as the discussion is respectful. Are you saying that people of theistic beliefs deserve no respect? But why? Of course if people negate the use of reasoning it's difficult to maintain respect. However I can't generalize that all believers have an " untouchable taboo" to criticism and rational discourse. Is that what you are saying? I'm somewhat open-minded and I understand that criticism is not bad. But I do dislike disrespect and confrontational attitudes. I hope you can clarify your comments to me because I'm confused. Respect is the best way for good communication, but it's a "two-way street". If I misunderstood your views, I apologize. Peace you from Florida..

[@JPJMando]

Grateful for the logical atheists. Hope for humanity if we can abandon religious nonsense.

[@WEAPONX4S]

Interesting approach… let’s ‘logic’ god into existence. These opponents only appealed to followers of Islam. Jake and Daniel were grasping hard this go around but no evidence for god. Make a lot of noise. Insult Arden. Matt - had a lot of restraint. So disingenuous I truly know they don’t believe it but have to sell it because they are in too deep.

[@ocolotav1]

Was put together so beautiful.

[@DarkWater4Eva]

AronRa's style of delivery has a "professor" style to it. I like how he delivers his messages and sometimes when he gets in heated debates with people that annoys him ha ha ha ha.

[@Kometheus]

Loveeeee aron ra debatessss!!!

[@DarthVaderfr]

It's funny seeing all the summary of the incredible amount of information and knowledge that we collected in the last 3 centuries, with the peak of human intelligence and creativity, that just pass all over the head of the muslim apologists that will simply refute everything we know with a simple NU UHHH

[@TalonCain]

Easily the most powerful speech I've heard from you! Concise points that flowed well. I'll have to go watch the full debate but if the look on the face of your opponent is any indication "dog catching the car" comes to mind.

[@stephenlesliebrown5959]

Oliver: "I asked you to call a doctor. Why did you get a veterinarian?" Stan: "Well I didn't think his religion would matter." (From the Laurel and Hardy movie "Sons of the Desert")

[@spacewalkx]

Aron Ra should change his name to Aron Savage.

[@LogicAndReason2025]

You can usually tell that when someone is wearing a funny hat and beard for religious reasons, (and is taking notes) that you are soon going to be straw-manned.

[@classybree2241]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@michaelcrawford3796]

I love it when someone explains it so perfectly there's no room for rebuttal?

[@Angelmou]

The whole debate is linked in the subscription, while it was not a debate about what AronRa spoke about Jake talked for an hour about how microphones are real.

[@blossom357]

Not sure if you said it in these 16 minutes or not, but I watched most of the debate live, and I take issue with this often used phrase of "no god would create a hell" because it's far too generalized. No LOVING god would create a hell, agreed, but why is it impossible to imagine that a hateful god (one who is unashamed to admit it) would create a hell?

[@OldNewsIsGoodNews]

Bravo! I especially appreciated the points toward the end re: knowing people who say they just really *want* to believe, even though they know they have no evidence and/or logic for it. I know a fair number of folks like that, and I keep trying to remind myself that for most of them, their belief is harmless (with a few unfortunate exceptions, my circles are generally comprised of people who are pretty progressive, regardless of theistic belief or lack thereof). But thinking about the "logic" of "I want this to be true, so I choose to believe it, regardless of anything else" baffles me in a way that I find difficult to ignore. Kinda like that scab or pimple that you know you shouldn't scratch at, but is just sitting there bothering you. I always feel like shouting, "Well, if wishing made things true and/or worthy of belief, magic and fairies and more would be real based on my wishing alone!" And what if I just *really wanted* to believe that I didn't need to eat to survive? How do ya think that would work out if I put it to the test?

[@Brutushungwell]

I was in a coma for 3 days. I didn’t see or hear anything. I lost 3 days. No near death experience

[@MgtowRubicon]

"I believe that anything that exists is, by definition, part of nature and it is explainable. If not now, then eventually." -- Ricky Gervais

[@bootskanchelsis3337]

I have always thought the concept of angels, djinn, etc. was absolutely ridiculous. They didn't like me too much in sunday school.

[@Donnerwamp]

Gotta hand it to Jake, he knows how to argue for the existance of a black mic on the table infront of him.

[@stultusvenator3233]

I have now witnessed a real time Crucifixion with Disembowelment. Horrifying yet Skillfully & Beautifully conducted.

[@Mike-xg3bk]

I'll be honest, the thumbnail hooked me in

[@itsROMPERS...]

Aron seems to be getting angrier and more bitter as time goes by, and I'm here for it.

[@kellydalstok8900]

These apologists are infuriatingly dishonest and ignorant.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I seldom listen to this channel but as a Christian believer who is somewhat open-minded, I am struggling to understand better the viewpoints of both theists and atheists. To be honest, Aron makes me feel a bit uncomfortable but so do other scholars on various KZbin channels. One in particular is a Muslim scholar ( I don't want to mention his name ). By the way, no disrespect intended toward you. But I dislike confrontation and people who are "getting angrier and more bitter". No problem. Respectfully from Florida

[@itsROMPERS...]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 I was speaking allegorically, not literally. I was trying to characterize how Aron's arguments are getting more definite and aggressive, and i think that's good, because i believe that Christianity and other beliefs in magic and the supernatural are bad for society. Stuff that isn't there, isn't there. Believing in God inevitably leads to people doing bad things to others on the authority of "God", and that can't be challenged. And despite all the protestations of biblical morality, Christians have never been shown to be even slightly more moral than anyone else, in fact they're more likely to commit extreme crimes. Statistical fact, it may not apply to you, but it's true. And anyway, by what they say, Christians should be noticeably BETTER than other people, but they aren't. This is because most believers like the idea of GETTING things, but don't want to GIVE things, even though the Bible explicitly says Christians must. A true Christian shouldn't have a house, a car, any possessions, because Jesus commanded that they be given to the poor. And yes there is Christian charity, but Jesus didn't say to give SOME, he said give it ALL. So it turns out that Christians don't really follow Jesus at all, so what's the point? They spend all their energy trying to get ME to follow the Bible i don't believe in, while they basically ignore it. That's what happens when you believe in non-existent supernatural beings. And that's why what Aron is doing is valuable, he's basically helping keep us from becoming like Saudi Arabia, where practicing Islam is compulsory. Please stop believing in dangerous fantasies, when you die you're dead, there's no afterlife. You're living now, in this world, where thousands die in earthquakes and floods in spite of God not because God's evil, but because he doesn't exist.

[@tristanblackmore9772]

Obviously caused by an allergic reaction to bullshit

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​@@itsROMPERS... Your comments are interesting and I appreciate your honesty. Although I disagree with some of your observations, I like when you said "You're living now, in this world..." I need to open my eyes to what's around me and what's happening. Peace to you from Florida.

[@majormarketing6552]

Incredibly well said.

[@jameshicks7125]

Only the psychoanalytic method can answer the religious questions. The religious questions are always rooted in the need for security, certainty, and comfort. These are our first "oceanic experiences" in life with our caregivers. When we are socialized we are pulled against the tension of wanting to continue to have this oceanic experience; The perfect bliss. Our caregivers are our first object relations, the first Lacanian "Big Other". If things go wrong in our early caregiving, if there are fractures,, neglect, splits or trauma we develop unhealthy objects relations, for some it's common neurosis and mild personality disorders and for others psychosis. The theist needs a big other/God to fulfill his or her broken object relations and attachments, that fundamentally carry the assurance of comfort, security and certainty. The theist position also serves to sublimate this lack as well as suppress the barred subject/s associated with the super ego realization that something has gone awry. The incorrigibility of the theist position emerges because any arguments against the theist position threatens to expose the barred subject as well as breaking down the jouissance/surplus enjoyment wherein the theist imagines themselves projected into the phantasy where these fundamental needs are satisfied.

[@Nkosi766]

The Undertaker always slew them so smoothly.

[@MgtowRubicon]

When I pointed out to a "Ken Ham" type of theist what he was relying on logical fallacies, he responded by saying that logical fallacies are o.k. when they are used to justify belief in his god.

[@bingo7799]

I find it hard to believe you are quoting him accurately.

[@UnionJack26]

It's gotta suck to sit there and hear all your beliefs and arguments get destroyed before you even get to speak... :)

[@2ahdcat]

GAWD: in the beginning? Man created Him/her/it...

[@scottsmith2235]

Aron is simply the best.

[@UniversalHuman]

Very logical and very clear person you are . This type of people we need in our society , logic and rational thinking. Love and respect from Iraq-Russia

[@PaulTheSkeptic]

Listening to Aron speak and make so much sense, I knew how the mind of the believer works. They can take all those things that we think are these difficult to ignore and impossible to explain absolute logical contradictions and hand wave them off as if taking off a jacket. It's cognitive dissonance among other cognitive biases. You can learn about if you want to but basically and ultra fast, someone can't believe in religion and still believe religion is illogical or harmful or whatever. That creates cognitive dissonance and that's uncomfortable. So, as researchers discovered, the mind must deal with this but not always in the right way. Often the mind will accept the lie and that will relieve the dissonance. And there's no shortage of lies to accept in religion. "He's possessed by the devil. Oh, he just doesn't get it. He lacks a divine sense. He's suppressing his belief in unrighteousness because he loves his sin." and on and on. The reason I'm saying all this, I used to be very much like Aron. I debated a lot of theists and creationists. I practiced. I learned how to make points compact yet still powerful. But now I don't think any of that matters. You need to break through that psychological aspect first. There are a few ways to go about starting to learn how to do that but first, it's probably best to learn about the psychology of belief. Religious believers aren't just stupid. They're human and humans are not good at being dispassionately logical. It's evolution. These biases evolved because it makes it easy to deal with certain kinds of information quickly and that grants a survival advantage but it doesn't make us great at finding the truth. But there are some things you can do to circumnavigate their natural biases and force them through a logical path. I've seen it done in real time and it's interesting to see how the religious react when you set things up just right and they can't pull their usual stuff. Nervous laughter followed by "Wait wait." then more laughter, as if they doubt their own thoughts and reason. I'll explain more to whoever is interested.

[@kellydalstok8900]

When someone’s beliefs are based on feelings, no amount of facts is going to sway them.

[@PaulTheSkeptic]

@@kellydalstok8900 Well, that's a reasonable conclusion at least for the most part. I like to think I was swayed by facts. But I think the gist of what you mean is that you're probably not going to talk them out of it. That's very likely. But there are some things you can do. There are ways of making people think. And after time passes, it really can affect people. Which, to me that's a very positive change.

[@MgtowRubicon]

Reliance on logical fallacies, scientific illiteracy, and intellectually insulting sophistry is unpersuasive. *"As long as people believe in absurdities, people will commit atrocities." -- Voltaire*

[@thevulture5750]

Are you aware that the KJV Bible is mathematically encoded?

[@riptidespecial31]

Does this apply to the furry movement? The same people denying that God exists some reason to think there is 27 genders, and man can be born in the wrong body, maybe even the wrong species! but says there is no soul..... hmmm.

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

​@@thevulture5750And? What if Harry Potter was mathematically encoded? What if Mother Goose rhymes were mathematically encoded? Does that make literature more believable?

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@thevulture5750those numbers at the bottom of the page are page numbers, and the numbers of the verses are for easy reference. Whatever else you think you read in it exists only in your addled mind.

[@micixduda]

​@@thevulture5750 King James version of bible is mathematically encoded (whatever this means), but original isn't? Hats off to James, extraordinary human.

[@prosperpersonelle]

Long live Aron ra

[@phildirt3]

Childhood cancer pretty much proves theirs no god to me

[@MrMrkBo]

Well done. Well said. Bravo my friend.

[@randellmathews5961]

W O W ! How can people voluntarily walk into a cage with this lion! Religious nonsense deserves no respect. AronRa is my hero !

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

As long as we don't " rattle the cage".

[@Amzingred]

"How you know their is no evidence of God!?" The same reason I know their is evidence Socrates existed. No one disbelieves Socrates and Plato existed. So how can something that is supposedly greater than historical figures like Socrates and Plato have such a hard time in getting everyone to know that he does indeed exist without question?

[@flowingafterglow629]

7:00 re: NDEs I've been on this bandwagon lately, and my apologies to those who have seen my comments before on Aron's channel, but this keeps coming up, and it needs to be stopped. These supposed "NDEs" make no sense, neither physically nor theologically. Physically, you have to ask the question, how in the heck is it supposed to work? Somehow, as the body "approaches" death, the "soul" starts to go away to enter into the afterlife. So the soul is wandering around staying near the vicinity of the body until, zip, the body comes back to life and the soul is yanked back into place. How in the blazes does that work? This sounds like there is a physical mechanism that tethers the soul to the body. However, as the body gets "near death" that tether is somehow lengthened out, to give the soul some leash to wander around...but not too much because if the soul completely got away then how could it get yanked back in? So what is physically happening that allows the soul to leave the body in the first place? But then what holds the soul in the vicinity? Does the soul not have the ability travel fast enough to get the heck away very fast? And then what is the physical trigger that tells the soul to come back? If the soul is connected to the physical body in this way, there needs to be a mechanism for it, but this is all nonsensical. There is no physical mechanism that could account for that. But I know, it's God. Remember, God takes your soul from you when you die. But this makes no sense, either. Why would God kind of take your soul away in an NDE knowing full well that you are NOT going to die? God knows you will be brought back to life, so why even start the whole "take my soul" process? If it is "to give you a preview of the afterlife," then that just begs the question of why it needs to be near death? God could give my soul a preview of the afterlife this afternoon if he wanted, and I don't need to almost die to do it. Unless, of course, there is some physical mechanism that controls it....? Nah, it just doesn't make sense.

[@AronRa]

Imma steal this post and use it in a future video!

[@flowingafterglow629]

@@AronRa No problem. I think it just comes down to the question, assume that the stories of NDEs are real. What are the implications? For me, none of it makes any sense at all.

[@jacksonstone246]

This is my fav video on KZbin

[@darkprototype5353]

They should have had the Mortal Kombat announcer pop and yell "Fatality!" Because goddamn.

[@Raydensheraj]

Absolute destruction of anyone's preferred version of invisible supernatural superbeeing....

[@robtbo]

Looking back, the reason I became an atheist at an early age despite being in a family of Christians (which DID prevent me from self-identifying as an atheist for over 20 years) was a familiarity with fiction (especially other religions and what is explicitly known as mythology) and learning that God was not the explanation for anything. God doesn’t control the wind, snow, hail and lighting… God didn’t create Adam and Eve. In fact, “not God” is known to be responsible for everything we have an explanation for. “God” has been proposed as the direct explanation for SO many things ,is now known to be the wrong explanation and has a 100% failure rate for being shown to explain anything, ever. “God” is statistically the worst, most false proposition in history by thousands of orders of magnitude in the sheer quantity of its failures. This trend indicates no signs of changing and virtually no room for exception. In casual conversation, I can say that I know no gods exist with more certainty than I can say that I know it’s a bad idea to walk across a busy roadway without looking for oncoming traffic.

[@michaelmoore7975]

That is a common denominator of atheists who used to be religious. Almost every one say they made the decision young. The ages vary from 10 yr. old to about 20. Now think about an opinion of someone that age. How much weight or merit does that opinion hold? How do you regard the way you used to think when you were that age? I think back on my younger years and see someone with all the worldliness and knowledge of a garden slug. I find it amazing that full grown adults allow the opinions of a child to dictate what they think their whole lives I was Christian then atheist. Then re-evaluated my position with lots of scholarship. Still no longer Christian, instead I identify as a deist/religious syncretist. Not Creationist or Apologist.

[@robtbo]

@@michaelmoore7975 Good point. It was around the time that I began identifying as an atheist that I began looking more closely at a LOT of my opinions. I realized that the only reason I didn’t call myself an atheist was because I was bigoted against atheists. The fact that I can distinctly express why I became an atheist, when much of my life was spent redefining what a god is just so that I could say that I believed in a god, should convey the time I’ve spent analyzing and critiquing myself. Many of my positions have changed and still do change, for a variety of reasons. Not atheism, fundamentally. I do understand my bias towards it and I’m more than willing to call it into question.

[@phantomstarsx9343]

​@@michaelmoore7975 the longer you believe a lie the more dedication you're likely to have to it. But what do you say to people, even less common but does happen, who deconvert in their 30s, 50s, and 60s? Do their opinions hold more weight to you?

[@michaelmoore7975]

​@@phantomstarsx9343 To be completely honest, I haven't interviewed or talked to enough older religious-turned-atheist to really formulate an opinion. I do know of a couple people but the predominance of Christian to atheist conversions are much greater by a large margin within the age range I specified. But, I admit their opinions would be a factor to consider. Just a guess off the top I would imagine they likely are less hostile or vocal against religion than the younger set, having had a much longer time in religion. Like you say, "the longer you believe a lie the more dedication you're likely to have to it." And now that you mention it, it would be interesting to know how their relationships with friends who remain religious might be different, or if they made a clean break from everything associated with the church, including friends. So I'll spit out 1 "reason" without real evidence....one I apply in similar circumstances. Don't hold me to it...I'm just thinking out loud. Often I hear in comments where an older person says "I used to be Democrat but when I got older and wiser I became a Republican." It comes from a quote ""If you are not a liberal when you are 30 you have no heart, if you are not a conservative when you are 40 you have no brain." The reason is once they got out of school and into the workforce they basically stop learning anything. They stagnate and would rather be entertained in their free time and their occupation places no demands on improving knowledge. So, they have essentially learned all they will ever learn just a few years after school. The contentedness and lack of curiosity along with agreeing with pretty much what they see on TV and friends opinions can be a bad thing if they aren't more discriminate and consequently makes them more easily influenced. Confirmation bias, if you will. And the evidence is there, just look at modern right-wing and/or Christian people. Both have become more radicalized than they ever have been. They have become that way by refusing to improve themselves and just go along with whatever everyone else thinks. The result is right-wingers have more animosity to anything other than republican and a lot of Christians have slipped into fundamentalism. And both have become more classicist, elitist, racist, sexist, bigoted and detrimental to society as a whole. And so older persons that has switched to atheism likely have done so because of some outside influence, or similar factors. Not because they have sit and analyzed carefully and put in any learning Just my opinion, no real fact. And guess what? Modern atheism has taken a similar course. Used to be atheists were exactly as the definition implies. The etymological definition. Meaning the prefix _"A"_ means 'without'. And _theist_ to mean religion. Or simply, _without religion._ Back in the day you hardly knew anyone atheist because anytime anyone mentioned or talked about religion they had no input. Because their lives were _actually_ without religion. They grew up with no influence. They had no desire to know anything about religion, nor had any opinion. Modern atheists are not true atheists by the strict and historical definition. They are absolutely "with" religion, sometimes more than most religious people. Modern atheists are so involved and associated with religion as a function of opposition that it is a big part of their everyday lives. Those are actually _anti-theists._ They actively seek out to demean religion, as well as religious peoples to harass and harangue, ridicule and mock. Even Hitch knew this to be true, because he was a self-ascribed anti-theist. And they only lower themselves when they do. The are unwittingly degrading themselves to a baser sphere. So much it is a fact that the fundamentalists and anti-theists have carved out a symbiotic relationship of sorts. Each is a function of the other. Both are intellectual equals. Both are divisive. Both are bigoted. Both are intolerant. Both harbor animosity and hatred. Both have been influenced by misinformation. Both believe things without evidence. Both propagate lies. Both are zero-sum endgames Neither raises the bar a fraction. Neither has solutions. Neither convinces the other of anything. Neither will ever improve. Neither have beneficial qualities. Neither have a mission or goal. Neither further their own cause. Both say, do, and repeat the same tired old points of debate and argument. Neither is going anywhere. Both are locked into a reciprocal and useless relationship, each going nowhere. People that engage in either side must enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing, and enjoy wasting copious amounts of time in a dead and static cause resulting in nothing. Both do the same thing over and over and expect different results. I can't think of a more useless wasteful endeavor. I can think of a million other ways to waste my time. And not waste others while I'm at it. Why is it people just can't mind there own business? Because assholes would have to find other ways to be dicks. Because people would have to get a real job instead of hosting such mindless channels like this one that do nothing for anyone except breed contempt, hatred, and animosity. And taken to the extreme will destroy all life. The idiot fundamentalist and the stupid anti-theist are both completely wrong. The idiot fundamentalist is wrong because his incorrect interpretations ignore context. The stupid anti-theist is wrong because he believes the incorrect interpretations of an idiot are worthy of argument. Everyone's life journey is always in flux; everyone should always re-evaluate their position. everyone should be willing and ready to learn. Open-minded enough to listen, consider and reconsider. To be more introspective not as obstinate and stubborn. To know there is always something to learn and benefit from. To not be so afraid to admit where they might be mistaken or wrong. To improve oneself little by little, day by day. No, I really have no mainstream denominational affiliation. I mentioned in my 1st post on this thread that I am a deist/religious syncretist. Know anything about religious syncretism? As far as living longer, scientific studies show that all other factors being equal, religious people live longer than non religious ones. Also live happier, more fulfilling lives. Better, more fulfilling marriages and relationships. Less suicides. And better able to withstand tragedy and hardship.

[@michaelmoore7975]

@@phantomstarsx9343 PS Here's a quote I like to use a lot “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” Marcus Aurelius