Evidence of the LDS Church from Early Christian Teachings

[@jamesmccluskey4026]

The "17 Points of the true church” of Jesus Christ that I heard about that started me on this whole Bible study project Explanation: Shortly after joining the church, the missionaries we had over for dinner one night noticed that I was taking notes of Bible scriptures that backed up LDS doctrine. They told me about a tape that I could get of a talk called “17 points of the true church”. “17? Wow, there are 17 scriptures in the Bible that prove the church correct? Neat!” But rather than drive the 50 miles to the Seattle Temple (which has a church book store next to it) from Whidbey Island, I just decided to find them on my own. This document, which I have nicknamed “The 17 Hundred Points of the True Church”, is the result of my tearing apart the Bible in an effort to find the buried treasure - the 17 points the missionaries had told me about (but by the Lord’s wisdom, had not actually given me). Neat how things work, isn’t it? Below are the original 17 points that come on the little card with the cassette tape I bought at Deseret Books, which is from the accompanying tape of the wonderful testimony of Mr. Floyd Weston. 1. Christ organized the Church - Ephesians 4:11-14 2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ - Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18 3. The true church must have a foundation of apostles and prophets - Ephesians 2:19-20, 1 Cor. 12:28 4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church - Ephesians 4:11-14 5. The true church must claim divine authority - Hebrews 5:4-10 6. The true church must have no paid ministry - Isaiah 45:13, 1 Peter 5:2 7. The true church must baptize by full immersion - Matthew 3:13-16 8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands - Acts 8:14-17 9. The true church must practice genuine divine healing - Mark 3:14-15 10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate individuals - Heb. 1:3, Acts 7:55-56, John 17:11 & 20:17 11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone - Luke 24:36-51, Acts 1:9-11 12. The officers of the true church must be called by God, not taken upon by themselves - Hebrews 5:4, Exodus 40:13-16 13. The true church must claim revelation from God - Amos 3:7 14. The true church must be a missionary church - Matthew 28:19-20 15. The true church must be a restored church (previously removed, then re-instated) - Acts 3:19-20 16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead - 1 Corinthians 15:16 -29 17. By their fruits ye shall know them - Matthew 7:20 ** Why are these things important? - Hebrews 13:8

[@JessicaOrban3606]

Thank you for sharing!!!

[@orangemanbad]

Most of these verses listed don’t actually back up the claim they are tied to though.

[@LatterDaisySaint]

Soooooo goooood! The need for a RESTORATION is obvious.

[@ramsrnja]

This is a fantastic video. Thanks for all your work and research.

[@oldcowboy3367]

Made me smile a few times. As with most of the faithful, I didn't need these to support my faith, but I do appreciate the consistency of truth...the same yesterday, today and forever.

[@artifacthunter1472]

Old Cowboy wow you are so ignorant your church changes every single day God’s true church never changes!!!!

[@oldcowboy3367]

@@artifacthunter1472 Ignorant? Maybe, depends I guess on the subject matter. "My church changes everyday". Sure, we just changed from a 3 hour block to a 2 hour block for Sunday worship. Is that a doctrinal issue? Not for me. If that is a problem for you then every other church in Christendom should be equally offensive. And lastly, I agree with you, God's true church never changes, which is what I said originally.

[@katbos4995]

I almost didn’t listen to this video because of the loud humming in the background. But I read the fantastic comments. So decided to listen. This is an excellent video!

[@reckless3589]

Loved this. This video cleared a lot of doubt in my mind ie baptism for the dead and temple work. Awesome to see where it came from. Thumbs up.

[@srilankangenie]

@feebeedee Provide evidence of this deception and we can engage in discussion. Or otherwise let’s just agree to disagree

[@kaarinabiddulph9991]

This is my Father-In-Law :) He's a genius:) This presentation amazes me!

[@alexwatson7068]

Love Light Love Truth That’s awesome! I wish I could just hang out with this guy and poke his brain for this stuff.

[@puppylove4506]

Love Light Love Truth Lucky to have that genius is the family.

[@benrumson1063]

then you are as fucked as him. how many kids he produced for you so far? 5-6?

[@alexwatson7068]

Ben Rumson not cool man

[@SkylerBaird]

I'd say "lucky!" But it's likely foreordained

[@UpperCutZX10]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I was baptized 2 yrs ago, and had enough faith and info, but need to keep growing, as new perspectives cause me to question some things. Every time that happens, it seems something like this comes along and re-assues, .....

[@havegottogitgud1864]

You should watch this series: kzbin.info/aero/PLW_W0q2IV3ZGtnDHmUtSQhdKwGfWrTN-U They are pretty good.

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

it doesn't matter how many angels we see, that testifoy that this is God's truth...we will still have to deal with doubt. Considering that faith is the first principle of the gospel, it should be no surprise to us that it is the primary focus of Satan's attacks.

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

D. Levi Chestnutwood Boillot, how do you define faith? Atheists sometimes define faith as "pretending to know what you don't know". This has some support in Alma 32.

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

BlueNinja BlueNinja, have you ever read the entire Bible? From the first page of Genesis to the last page of Revelation?

[@srilankangenie]

@@exmormonroverpaula2319 If Joseph Smith made all this up then, he’s done one heck of a job as a conman. I can’t find another who can parallel this

[@Hogmeister722]

Constantine and the Roman emperors likely did not appreciate that any initiate was shown the way to Godhood and even anointed. Only the king or emperor should be Gods anointed in their prideful view. The endowment undermined the status of the emperor or king as extremely special and chosen among men.

[@nanholt4431]

Thank you very much for the time,effort and study you put into this. I believe/know the church is true, but love learning historical background. I liked history in school, but the church's history is even nicer to take in.

[@alexwatson7068]

This blows my mind. What an amazing church Christ has set up. Also Brother Biddulph’s voice is very comforting haha

[@aurastudios3687]

Magnificent. Thank-you for putting this together.

[@jauwen]

Thank you so much! Very imformative. I had a lot of oh wow moments as I watched. Somehow, the importance of those 40 days never clicked so much with me. I know that history unfolds in ways that God would have it, but if only the Nicean council had unfolded it diferently.

[@Alex808thegreat]

And this my friends is why we need prophets and apostles. Otherwise true doctrine gets thrown out the window for political power, and people listening to man-made philosophies instead of trusting in the Lord (Proverbs 3:5-6). Normally when people begin to adopt man-made philosophies the prophets and apostles come out and correct them. God's doctrine can be confusing at times but with apostolic explanations we can see how the bigger picture causes them to make more sense but without them it becomes easier to believe the man-made stuff, and then people either misinterpret the scriptures or deem them heresy ordering the to be burned.

[@scubawrestler]

Clear, concise, and succinct Thank you.

[@grahamizzard3271]

Wow, Great work, well put together, a real testimony builder, evidence from the dust, thank you.

[@honeybear717]

Thank you for this precious lecture! \

[@1000HolyPlaces]

Definitely some fascinating stuff in here!

[@theephraimite]

Wow... powerful presentation and a wealth of valuable information.

[@briannorbury8840]

Of course what we do in the church and in the Temple was what was done in the time of the ancient apostles. Now we have concrete evidence of this for the non believers.

[@fatmorsyth2856]

Enjoyed this! Thanks for the video. Intrigued to study more.

[@fstaheli]

Excellent! I had not heard before of the clear explanation by Pope Timothy of Alexandria regarding Christ being selected as our savior and advocate prior to the time that Adam awoke in the Garden of Eden. There also seems to be much more evidence of baptism for the dead than I previously thought.

[@alexwatson7068]

Frank Staheli I believe I heard President Russell M. Nelson share the passage in a discourse once. I don’t remember if it was General Conference or on a different occasion.

[@kathrynpearce7662]

This is incredible. Thank you!

[@mikeldowd7718]

Thank you this video has helped me so many questions I have had.

[@TheLastDispensation]

How can I get these transcripts!!! AWESOME STUFF!!!!

[@Bot7637]

You can copy it to Microsoft Powerpoint, and then print it.

[@briannorbury8840]

Brilliant expisition

[@StressFreeDentistry]

I loved the video …. Can you put source references in the description or a link to them I would like to study further…. Thank you for your time and effort …. Very insightful

[@Bot7637]

Barry Bickmore's book "Restoring the Ancient Church" and the Nag Hammadi Scriptures would be a good place to start. Then Google Cyril of Jerusalem Catechetical Lessons 21 and 23.

[@Bot7637]

The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) sells a abook "Restoring the Ancient Church" by Barry Bickmore. It has all the requsite source references.

[@Garrett-Cloud-Computing]

Love your guys work!

[@phrog849]

Good work

[@karlshaner2453]

Excellent presentation.

[@annwood6812]

I didn't see any evidence in this presentation that fathers baptized their family members. The fonts you presented were built hundreds of years after Christ died, although I don't contend that immersion was used from the beginning. Clement arugued that it was faith not special knowledged that saved a person. The Apocalypse of Adam is highly divergent from the Genesis version of creation.

[@Bot7637]

The sign in the Israel Museum accompanying the font says fathers baptize their chilren.

[@1zcott]

Fascinating content! Talks like H Nibley. Audio is poor, but I'm saving this to favorites.

[@CaptainSaber7]

Fantastic thank you

[@ChristianAuditore14]

God did not create out of nothing but he created the matter...

[@jtoddburt1]

Incredible research and compilation! Loved it.

[@lorenspendlove]

I believe that you have incorrectly located Nicea (currently Iznik). It is located about 90km southeast of Istanbul, not along the shores of the Mediterranean.

[@nealljones]

Yep. This link below takes you to the correct location: close to Istanbul and the Black Sea. Not along the Eastern shores of the Mediterranean, as this presentation shows. www.google.com/maps/place/Nicaea,+%C4%B0znik%2FBursa,+Turkey/@42.2055083,17.1895154,5.28z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x14cb0bc05d7864f5:0x17b677c58432bec8!8m2!3d40.429524!4d29.719743

[@sbcohrs3622]

Pure knowledge is pure gold.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

As a teacher of the History of the Church, the first 500 years, you need to know that I need to see "exact" sources, pages from these church fathers. Also, since you are using gnostic writings, you need to fully understand that the Church from the Apostles, do not recognized these writings as valid but heretical. They were heresies. If you want to believe these heresies as truth, we don't. Please validate and give all your sources and page numbers.

[@templetours966]

You could try Googling ;the author and a few key words to find the source.

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

Dave, even if you get all of these sources, you will still have doubts. Yes, these claims can help support someone's belief, but ultimately we have to walk by FAITH. Laman and Lemuel saw an angel. Didn't change their hearts in the long-term. Many Jewish leaders saw with their eyes the living Christ, many were witnesses to His miracles, and still did not believe. Faith, being the first principle of the gospel, is also the principle means by which Satan attacks us (our belief/faith). There will always be doubt.

[@suem6004]

I agree that sources should be added. However, Jesus sits on the right hand of the father which negates trinity where only God the Father exists. Jesus and Holy Spirit are bits of the father. Godhead does not make polytheism. Perhaps you should worry about the rejection of the early teachings and schism in the Catholic church today. Denial of transubstantiation. Denial of salvific role only assigned to Christ alone, not Mary. Push for pantheism, ecospirituality, denial of one true and holy church. Denial of Christianity as necessary savior. The Amazon synod and Pope Francis is leading the charge to fundamentally deny the basic tenants of Christianity let alone the Catholic church. No amount of sources will stop the ‘heresy’. This is why Jesus restored his church in these latter days. The LDS church has kept the teachings of Christ as Savior and Redeemer of the world. The Book of Mormon codifies the gospel when biblical scholars and schismatics unravel fundamental doctrines that were lost or manipulated through time.

[@richardgaines9450]

The APOSTLES saw these doctrines as heretical ?? Please provide book, chapter and page number from the apostles labeling these doctrines or authors as heretical.........you make the assertion, but without sources, I have to dismiss your claim as heretical.

[@dankuchar6821]

This isn't a scholarly writing. This isn't a scholarly textbook, So it doesn't need a bibliography or a complete list of references. He's making a video for the general public. a very quick internet search of any of these texts will give the exact publications. You can do some work yourself.

[@arscheerio]

I just went to the gospel of Philip on gnosis.org but I did not see anything about what was referenced in 25:55. Could someone send me to the source Fair Mormon used, instead?

[@Bot7637]

The Gospel of Philip, in Robinson, ed. The Nag Hammadi Libray in English p. 142, p. 139, p, 151, p.135

[@terrycarleson6371]

Great

[@vincentvos3434]

Nice presentation, but please get some help with the audio next time.

[@maestrophil]

Is this available in written form?

[@Bot7637]

Contact the author.

[@terrysnarr3887]

Written copy available?

[@Bot7637]

At the beginning of the presentation, click on the three dots, and then on "transcript" for a written form.

[@allentremper8243]

I am so grateful for the Nag Hammani Scriptures, what a find that was, after everything the Church Systems destroyed because of Gnostic Christian ideology. Everywhere a group of Gnostics get together, they are not long for this world and never have been part of the world. That being said, the Nag Hammani Scriptures really don't bolster hardly any Mormon doctrine. If the leadership is aware of this and who runs the show on this plane of existence,they wouldn't have been caught off guard, they never should have held back Truth at the expense of God Almighty, God needs no one to do anything, He will find the way.

[@yanfoo]

"LDS Church"? Follow the prophet!

[@mrretimix7941]

Why do we follow the catholic change of the sabbath day. Why was this truth no restored?

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

here is an article i found on the church website as to why we worship on sunday www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1978/01/i-have-a-question/why-do-we-observe-the-sabbath-on-sunday?lang=eng

[@katbos4995]

D. Levi Chestnutwood Boillot : Excellent explanation in the article!

[@shawnbradford2243]

Because there is no restoration

[@dankuchar6821]

The day we worship God doesn't matter. It's generally accepted by most Christians that the Sabbath day, the day we worship God, is the day of the resurrection. So that would be Sunday. There's nothing wrong with good traditions.

[@ChristianAuditore14]

It's cultural, other places use other days.

[@LoveYou-xi1mh]

Where are the teachings of Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse in terms of the nature of God not being eternal? Where was that ever held by the Jewish community or early Christians? In the very same discourse Smith says that the understanding of the nature of God is "preliminary" to everyone and that he will prove his revelation with the Bible. Yet, no such thing ever happens. The ancient Jews believed in an eternal God based upon their Hebrew texts. This was so all the way up even to the 1st century and the NT as John 1:1 recites the very same Greek phrase from the LXX in Gen 1:1, namely, "en arche" which refers to an eternal being when saying "In the beginning..." But Smith said 1800 years later "I will refute that idea (the idea of an eternal God)". Yet, Jews and Christians have always held to the nature of God as eternal. So how can Smith be "restoring" anything when his view on the nature of God is contradicted by Scripture and when there's no historical evidence of it ever being believed prior to Smith?

[@SecondLifeAround]

Rob Bledsoe AMEN BROTHER!! I love how silent they've been about addressing your comment.

[@germanslice]

@@danvan2683 Wrong again, For In the last days the law of the Lord will be distributed out from Zion to the world from Zion in America and Zion in Jerusalem.. .

[@germanslice]

The Kingdom of God has always existed. There was no contradiction.

[@germanslice]

@@danvan2683 I know the truth For I believe God is an Omnipresent Kingdom of God, Jesus taught that truth about his Father's Kingdom that the Saints of God will inherit, which is an Eternal Kingdom of God and I believe in that truth about God. The law of the Lord won't be preached out by people running all blindly around with their bibles wrongfully judging and condemning others for I know the law of the Lord will come instead from out of Zion in America and out of Jerusalem in the last days, that is where the law of the Lord is going to be distributed from to all of the nations on the earth..

[@germanslice]

@@danvan2683 You haven't got all the truth about God and who and what he is and why the kingdom of God is also eternal and Omniscient as God is because you have not understood correctly the teachings of the Latter-Day Saints why we believe in an Omniscient Kingdom of God and not just only in an Omniscent Godhead.. But that there exists also a kingdom of God as well but because the kingdom is omniscient, God and the Kingdom of God are one and the same. This is why we keep the commandments of the Father so His Spirit can be able to dwell with us, so we can be at one with God as he is one with us and become like God because God's Spirit is with us. Its really quite simple why many beings can become like God when they have His Omniscience Spirit dwelling with them as Jesus clearly taught that the Father's love will dwell with us if we keep His Commandments. A Plural Kingdom of God is doctrine and it is supported in the bible because that is taught by the apostles also of the new testament of inheriting this kingdom of God the Saints are to inherit to become joint heirs with Christ and with God.. Many beings connected to the One True God because of having that same Omniscient Spirit of God in their temples even though we do believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage Of Spirit that Controls that light of God in the universe to send messages from God to us. But we also believe God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ are both separate glorified resurrected beings that dwell in that same Omniscence Spirit which is why they are one God without end and they are part of the same kingdom of God. . .And because of this eternal truth and because man is also a spirit child of Heavenly Parents is why we believe we are all brothers and sisters of the same Heavenly Kingdom. God the Father being the Father of us all.

[@rndyh77]

We can conclude that fathers held the priesthood? Why? There seem to be some major leaps in this without a full explanation and documentation.

[@Doomedmandy77]

I’m Mormon. I wonder WHY what Joseph Smith’s deeds and. words are so SMOTHERED by the church. Something is fishy...

[@miklamx]

What do you mean?

[@dankuchar6821]

ever heard of the Joseph Smith papers? Everything Joseph have ever said and done has been published by the church. Anybody can read it in scholarly journals. there's nothing fishy. Everything he ever said and did is out there for all the world to see including all the things he did wrong and all the things he did right. No one is perfect,

[@Doomedmandy77]

@@dankuchar6821 like the several different accounts , and stories of what happened in the grove? That CERTAINLY wasn’t offered by the church when I asked about it. 😐 I never received these notifications until someone replied today. There’s a lot not answered and bc accounted for. I was new in the church 3 years ago. Not so now.

[@LindyLime]

​@@Doomedmandy77 not offered by the church when you asked? Who did you ask? I'm confused about what exactly you are expecting. The book Saints, sold at Deseret Book for example draws from multiple first vision accounts. You can also read about them in the Gospel Library app.

[@briannorbury8840]

Exposition

[@LoveYou-xi1mh]

Also, the early fathers you quote can also be quoted as believing that God is eternal or that Christ is eternal, never that God was once a man as we are and became a God. That is no where in the early fathers. Further, Constantine wasn't present during the Council of Nicea. The terms used were a reaction to the Arian heresy. The teachings of the Trinity were nothing new as even the early church fathers you quote in your video can also be quoted as believing that Jesus was God, not merely a god. There are no former day saints, and no prior Mormon theology in terms of the nature of God. Thus, it makes no sense to be called Latter-Day Saints or hold that Joseph Smith restored the gospel. Such a gospel about the nature of God was never believed prior to Smith.

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

what church do you go to?

[@germanslice]

The Angle of God had restored the gospel back again to the earth (Rev 14:7). There would be no need for the angle to restore back the gospel if it didn't have things missing or changed in it but it was, and that's why that which was lost due to the Council of Nicean interferring and throwing in also greek philosophy talking absolute nonsense concerning God the Father saying hes invisible and cannot be seen or comprehended, and throwing out many plain and precious teachings and scriptures to prevent them from entering into the Bible causing a the bible to turn it into a stumbling block is why the gospel had to be restored back. . John saw it happen in the last days, the time we are living in now. It was an act of God....Isaiah the prophet speaking about the last days also said that the law of the Lord after this gospel was restored back again to the earth that the Lord's law would then come forth from out of Zion once Zion got established in America and also come from Zion also in Jerusalem....

[@dankuchar6821]

Study your history a little bit better. The Trinity was a philosophy created at least 200 years after Christ.

[@ekaterini2957]

I just have to point this out again. The Eastern Orthodox Church is the same original church. It never disappeared, it never went away. There was never a loss of the original church. This does not mean that we are not all his children, but it is important to point out. Point out the historic time frame that the Church ceased to exist? I say this in love. Take a look, as we say, come and see.

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

comeuntochrist.org come and see

[@dankuchar6821]

Which version of the church? Which pope? So many times one pope killed another pope, and you're saying that that's the correct way for the church to continue?

[@sirhood1848]

The Apocrypha was not added to the King James Bible because it doesn't BELONG there!

[@oldcowboy3367]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean they are without merit. Anything authentically ancient has something to tell us about what people believed when our belief systems were young. Scripture? No, but not without insights as to how we got what we have, and what was omitted and insights as to why.

[@shawnbradford2243]

The apocrypha was in the KJV bible of Joseph smiths era and you can see it’s use in the bom just like the KJV Bible was including the changes specific to that version from the 1600’s that the nephites put on golden plates long before the changes were made in the 1600’s 😂

[@stunnr8406]

Ok Constantine

[@jerrymiller6411]

None of this is in the Holy Bible. Don’t be preaching contrary to the word.

[@d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022]

keep reading the bible then. it seems as though you are missing out on much.

[@Bot7637]

If you viewed the presentation (which I doubt) you would see that Tertullian and Athanasius decreed esoteric writings to be heretical. And they were subsequently burned. That is why you don't see these in the New Testament which contains only 22 of the 200 sacred New Testament era writings

[@germanslice]

But it is in the Bible about restoring back the gospel to the earth by an angle sent from God and where the law of God will be coming from in the last days because it won't be coming from you guys who are busy screaming and thumping around and judging others wrongly with your bibles.

[@stevenpictures1]

Well holy crap you guys

[@bryanjensen355]

To take one of the earliest points: Platonic vs Aristotelian perspectives on biogenesis (_ex materia_ vs _ex nihilo_) were so culturally widespread in influence while also divergent from each other that it can be said (though fallaciously) that the dominant Orthodox Christian perspective as well as the "LDS perspective" descend from Greek philosophy. That Mr Biddulph confuses this philosophic worldview reality in order to try to score an apologetic point shows how incapable of basic historical research integrity is at the basis of this presentation.

[@jenniferflower9265]

Except eairly teachings that were concidered esoteric, women coukd become preists. 😉 its tre this teaching is there but there is corruption in it still.

[@templetours966]

Women officiated in the preliminary ordinances, and served as deaconesses to grant permission to enter the ceremonies.

[@artifacthunter1472]

Completely hilarious trying to find evidence for a cult ha ha Ha!!! Jesus Christ God in the flesh did not come here to start a religion wake up!!!

[@alexwatson7068]

Artifact Hunter If you want to throw away all the evidence that was just presented by this nice, civil man, then sure you can think that. Do you get a kick out of comments like this amongst people who simply wish to learn more about their beliefs without having someone calling them a cultist or brainwashed idiot every five minutes? Everything he has said is corroborated by independent study of early christianity I have done before this. Call it a hobby.

[@Bot7637]

@@harpsickle5205 The Amish may have baptized their children, but they do not claim authority from Jesus Christ. What others of the nine items listed in the last slide are practiced by Christian denominations today?

[@ChristianAuditore14]

What do you think cult means? Lol

[@rustynelson2357]

Remember Mormons: Its wrong to criticize church leaders, even if the criticism is true.

[@michaelgarcia3452]

Pretty good video too bad it's not true... we all know the Catholic Church was the first church

[@ChristianAuditore14]

Keep worshipping isis