Evolution Versus God Did It | Joel-IA | The Atheist Experience 862

The Atheist Experience 862 for April 20, 2014 with Russell Glasser and Don Baker.
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[@atcarlumsy1503]

Joel in Iowa: this is what happens when you drop out of school and get all your education from your pastor.

[@johndoe-sn3pl]

what kind of "education" from his pastor. (it matters if you`re a little boy).

[@ronniecortex4936]

Pastors and churches are weapons of mass brain destruction!

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Yea… very « educational » I am sure

[@TheSnoeedog]

"education" is a bit generous

[@FourDeuce01]

@@johndoe-sn3pl Special education.😜

[@tigdogsbody]

It sounds like the caller is reading from a flow chart: if Russell or Don say one thing , go to box three for the proper Christian response.

[@jeffwatson7345]

Joel: hahaha , let the masses decide ! that's not how facts work Joel .

[@tigdogsbody]

What "popular fallacy" did Joel commit?

[@secularargument9012]

@@tigdogsbody I don’t believe the OP stated there was a fallacy made.

[@tigdogsbody]

@@secularargument9012 No, he implied one. Argumentum ad populum.

[@jeffwatson7345]

@@tigdogsbody correct that is indeed what I was trying to imply.

[@tigdogsbody]

@@blarglemantheskeptic I'm confused why you are pursuing a comment I made that was meant as a joke, that no one could possibly care about for more than ten seconds.

[@richiejohnson]

Joel is proof evolution has no goal

[@perryegolson833]

Also an “intelligent designer” probably would have given Joel a few more brain cells.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

And Joel answers the question « if we evolved from apes, how come we still have apes »

[@richiejohnson]

@@petyrkowalski9887 just in case...

[@TheSnoeedog]

Joel is proof that Darwin was an idiot for thinking that man evolved from apes; obviously apes evolved from Joel and his ilk

[@matt_white]

It sounds like Joel was never an atheist. A rebellious teen, maybe., but that's not atheism.

[@Ouja]

Theists like to say "I used to be an Atheist" when they were really just non-practicing theists. They think it gives them more credibility.

[@kaiza6467]

@@Ouja it’s a common technique grifters use when they claim that they belonged to a group but was forced to changed their mind from “overwhelming facts and evidence”.

[@Ouja]

@@kaiza6467 And let me guess, if I make a modest donation of 10% of my income, my place in heaven will be assured. Who is the grifter here? Oh, right. It's you.

[@kaiza6467]

@@Ouja prosperity gospel preachers are the perfect example of that lol Like, it’s clearly a scam and yet people believe that crap without question. “If I give all my savings to the church, God will cure my cancer and make me rich! God told me so through that preacher with a mansion on an island and 3 private jets so I know it’s true, why would the preacher lie?”

[@curious1053]

I think it’s just a teenage rebellious stage where they become contrarians to get back at their parents. They were never skeptical as they all repeat the same story when they return to theism, “I was in a bad place and felt so low but suddenly Jesus/God entered my heart and showed me the way”.

[@AlexPBenton]

“Is god more complicated than nature?” “No, he gave us free will” 😐

[@kelrunner]

Huh?

[@AlexPBenton]

@@kelrunner exactly, it’s just a non-sequitur

[@ksdogg]

But if we are just the result of random chemical reactions that went through a chronological process resulting in us. then we are still merely that with no free will just chemistry playing out ? this is determinism what Stephen hawking believed.

[@AlexPBenton]

@@ksdogg Chemical processes aren’t random, and yes, it certainly appears that everything follows the laws of physics. Tell me, do you know that you could have chosen to do something differently?

[@cy-one]

@@ksdogg I see no convincing reason that isn't the case. Discussions about free will are rather moot, as we can't provide sufficient evidence it even exists. It's like asking (when applying it practically, mind you) how gravity works. We don't know, and for practical applications it's irrelevant _why_ mass attracts mass with that particular formula. The only thing we know for sure is: it does. Returning to free will: The only thing we know for sure is that I read your comment and posted a reply. We do _not_ know if, given the _exact_ same circumstances (time of day, my mood, my personal interests like enjoying these kinds of comments, etc), I could've _not_ replied to you. We also have no way of checking that.

[@krisaaron5771]

Odd, how Joel snickers after making what he assumes is a "profound" statement contradicting everything the hosts have said. He doesn't understand evolution, but he CAN believe the idea of a sky-daddy conjuring life into existence.

[@KubiqFeet]

Joel: "But my pastor told me I was smart and said that God wanted me to call in to own you.. also I'm a super pro hackr programmer so I know what I'm talking about."

[@larryfulkerson4505]

"Anyone who engages in the practice of psychotherapy confronts every day the devastation wrought by the teachings of religion." ---Dr. Nathaniel Branden, Ph.D

[@larryfulkerson4505]

@@haggishead7558: some people don't have a choice. mental illness can strike anyone at any time for a multitude of reasons. and I don't think your reply is funny.

[@keithherring7677]

"The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally." Professor Andrew Sims, former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists

[@larryfulkerson4505]

@@keithherring7677: Professor Andrew Sims is mistaken. Badly. Religious belief is a mental illness. And by the way your imaginary friend has been lying to you for years now.

[@keithherring7677]

@@larryfulkerson4505 Religion may indeed be deleterious. I don't have a religion. However, "God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, love, and of a sound mind." You don't know who has been lying since you don't have any source to determine what exists and what doesn't regarding God. You just have so much faith in those who have convinced you of what is true/real you are telling me.

[@larryfulkerson4505]

@@keithherring7677: your scriptures were written approx. 2K years ago. It's not possible that it's relevant to us now. it's not even good literature. I suppose I could use it to light my fireplace.

[@withhernosestuckinabook2507]

-*says he has an education in science* -*calls adenine adrenaline*

[@Mouse_Librarian]

sigh. It's always the same thing with evolution deniers. Their only argument is one giant argument from ignorance.

[@margaretbarrett6087]

The reason they deny evolution is because it hasn’t happened to them yet !

[@conors4430]

Guy doesn’t know the definition of an atheist, Guy also doesn’t know the definition of an anarchist, Guy uses words he doesn’t understand to describe things he doesn’t understand. The usual, I can’t comprehend something, I lost my faith, something bad happened to me, so I needed to start believing again, therefore evidence

[@amunek]

So Joel has gone from being Rational ( Atheist ) to being Irrational ( Theist ) yet has no basic understanding of how Evolution works. If i was going to ring in, the last thing i would choose is a subject i know squat about and dig myself into a hole of embarrassment....

[@petyrkowalski9887]

@PARTH Asha like how?

[@TheSnoeedog]

You're being too charitable; embarrassment requires a degree of integrity

[@AlexPBenton]

How does he think that intelligent people *sequencing* dna implies that dna was intelligently created?

[@FirstnameLastname-qp4hf]

Commodore 64... Why do they always need to tell us a backstory? Its Evolution, not your life story.

[@bjbell52]

The Commodore Pet evolved into the Commodore 64. Then the C64 mated with an Atari 800 thus the Amiga was born.

[@curious1053]

It’s the same method salesmen use to establish common ground before the sales pitch. Small talk designed to lower your intellectual guard before attempting to sneak in their beliefs.

[@michaeldarby3503]

@@bjbell52 you speak like a true computer nerd lol

[@kelrunner]

Ooh,ooh,ooh. It hurt so much just listening to this guy.

[@roddychristodoulou9111]

Everything about humans planet earth and the universe is evolutionary and yet these people still insist on believing in talking snakes and invisible beings in the sky .

[@futtbugly5986]

"Let the masses decide" Exactly how science doesn't work.

[@henrim9348]

"God is the greatest programmer in the world" --- And who programmed god?

[@richardcooper9167]

Joel: there is only one law - obey God. Also Joel: The one thing God wants for us is free will.

[@byron2521]

I hate when callers like this lie. I'm no scientist and I have only studied science up to the junior level of college. Working on my Bachelor degree. Yet even I can tell callers like this have no understanding of science.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

I have a bachelors degree in science and this guy is totally ignorant so you are correct.

[@benculhane]

DNA is so complex it must be created by some dude with magic powers, who knows everything and existed before this universe.

[@wprandall2452]

Had to be created by somebody who learned how to do it from somebody who learned how to do it from somebody......first somebody

[@vincentranger09]

Stephen Meyer is notorious for using this analogy. I once heard him claim that "DNA sequence is so complex that the universe is not old enough for it to have evolved that way". How do you even argue with that?

[@benculhane]

@@vincentranger09 He makes that claim without evidence then I agree it's not even worth it to bother. If he has evidence then it really depends on what that is but it doesn't seem to have won over most biologists yet

[@benculhane]

@@wprandall2452 Well if he knows everything already then we don't have to add a teacher haha

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

@@vincentranger09 computers are so complex they must have been invented in 1256 .... How could it have only happened in less than 100 years !!!!

[@doubtingthomas736]

You guy's at atheist experience are wrong... Trust me, I've read his paper on this subject... its on the back of an envelope! 🙄🤣

[@petyrkowalski9887]

I wouldnt want to touch his paper as he pulled it put of his ass.

[@jamessoltis5407]

...in postulating an ‘intelligent designer’ as the creator of all things, your first step is to provide compelling empirical evidence for this designer. Things exists, therefore an intelligent designer/god/prime mover/etc. is not even a compelling argument, let alone compelling evidence.

[@ronjans9914]

There is evidence enough for that!! Take the eye, how can it work so well!! Must be designed. Also if you believe in evolution, why are there still monkeys if we came from them!!! Also there are no combinations between ducks and cows found while you claim thats possible!!! Cant answer this!!! Praise the Lord who sacrified his one and only son for us!!! He is the God of hope and love, the source of all good!!

[@legionleschyzophrene4929]

​@@ronjans9914 Please tell me it's sarcasm

[@ronjans9914]

@@legionleschyzophrene4929 I hope he is sarcastic yes!! Thinking that there is no evidence for our Lord God Almighty who gave his one and only son for us to take away our sins that we did because we all decided through the mind of Eve to take that apple and to choose death!!!

[@legionleschyzophrene4929]

@@ronjans9914 oh Bastet it wasn't sarcasm....

[@ronjans9914]

@@legionleschyzophrene4929 How do you know?

[@Nivola1953]

1 Over 10^40 is the probability that Creationists understands any scientific concepts explained to them. The number is obtained by farting in a Venturi tube and measuring the specific impulse over the weight of the BS deposited

[@alexhetherington8028]

Last word more like the last laugh.

[@moragslothe6449]

It's incredibly frustrating and terrifying when you watch so many of these videos and realize how many of these people there really are out there. So when we "let the masses decide" it becomes painfully obvious how easily the masses are manipulated, exploited and indoctrinated to do the same to their families and communities. Enraging and saddening.

[@TheSnoeedog]

.....and exciting, assuming you're one to enjoy sitting back and watching the world burn

[@AZ-hg6kw]

"Let's let the masses decide". Ah yes, after dismissing the counter point that the vast majority of experts agree on evolution. We forgot to poll Bob down at the gas station. Boy, bias is a bitch.

[@sunzi42]

Whenever someone says: "I studied this subject!" They actually means: "I have seen a few KZbin videos, of my choice!"

[@AZ-hg6kw]

Love those moments of silence that come from the callers. I can only imagine the war going on in their brains, desperately clinging to any excuse to rationalize the supernatural.

[@murali-alive]

they are like why the heck you won't believe dang it

[@tigdogsbody]

Joel’s last word is very revealing.

[@EustaBAracer]

Nobody reasons themselves into a religion

[@taylorshelton3267]

Ok Joel so complicated life forms with complicated DNA like humans were created by a simplistic creator made of simple cloud puff. That sounds really logical. Not!! 😄😄

[@tysongalloway5700]

This caller was refreshingly honest

[@TrejoDuneSea]

I wasn't sure about it until toward the end, when he recognized a flaw in his reasoning. That's a hard thing to do.

[@BuddhaAtheist29]

Anarchists? I don't think he knows what that word means. How does that relate to religion? He seems to use a lot of words he doesn't know the meaning of. Word salad.

[@keithulhu]

Organic molecules are easily made and spontaneously self assemble, something lost on Joel

[@FourDeuce01]

"You're helping me with my point." No help is enough when your point is nonsense. :p

[@barryweatherley5046]

If God were a computer programmer then he isn’t a good one…too many viruses!

[@petebetz5358]

There's a difference between experimenting on and in nature and product testing...

[@petyrkowalski9887]

You can have your own beliefs but not your own facts. Evolution is a verifiable fact.

[@FourDeuce01]

Religious apologists can’t just say they don’t have a clue how evolution works. They have to keep showing they don’t have a clue.🤡 Poor Joel, tried to engage in a battle of wits without being armed.

[@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1]

Man in the origin of god claims. Am I wrong?

[@andreasplosky8516]

After 3 minutes in, it was painfully clear that caller had no idea whatsoever what he was talking about. I listened another 5 minutes, and it became only more painful, so I stopped listening.

[@larrycrabs5995]

It's funny watching the educated have a conversation with the uneducated.

[@michaelmay5453]

What is the odds that a trillion coin flips that were done ends up the way they did? 1:1 If it had been a completely different sequence of heads and tails then what would be the odds for that ending up like it did? 1:1 Everything that has happened has a 100% chance of having happened just like it did. So, what is the chance of the universe existing just like it does? 1:1

[@hankkingsley9183]

I know the origin of God.... mankind's imagination. Well I am fairly certain, anyway :)

[@csjrogerson2377]

3:50 "Let the masses decide" Why? Apart from pandering to Ad populum , why do the masses know the answers? Joel certainly doesn't and we don't want to listen to him.

[@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane]

When anyone says "I studied science", it means that the last science class they took was in 10th grade.

[@annk.8750]

You want the basics of genetics? Ask any farmer.

[@tedgrant2]

I used to wonder where everything came from. Then I realised that if I knew, I would then need to ask another question. And if I knew the answer to that question, I would need to ask a further question. At that point, I lost interest in the answer to the first question.

[@carlomagnoiroritasorita5564]

If i found a sharp tree bark i wouldn't assume something sharpened it rather if it broke off by itself or through natural means would it be as sharp as it is. If it is then it isn't sharpened. Same happened with life. It can form by itself hence the likelihood some god made it lowers to the basement and into the grave.

[@mbm3155]

There’s only one rule, follow these additional rules

[@debbieburton938]

God was the greatest programmer in the world?? So why did he make a body full of in perfections.. So many flaws in the design of human bodies.. Why did he not make it perfect?? I tried arguing this with a creationists but they always argue it was made this way so this could happen.. Trying to explain you are only explaining the human body as you know it not what it could have been goes right over there head...

[@gravitywell6350]

I am just a planet born kluge of an organic life form. A computer is designed first then constructed. BTW ! How do I send an email to Dillahunty?!

[@gravitywell6350]

This process is as old as the earth. I think 4.5 billion years is enough time. Evolution is only the description of the process; Not the process itself.

[@revivedfears]

"Anarchist"?! 😂 This bloke doesn't even know what that means let alone ever actually have been one. Something tells me this person is a right wing Conservative and has been his entire life. 😂

[@andrewsarchus7319]

If Joel studied science I am a dolphin

[@ummmno3871]

Stupid people study stuff all the time. That doesn’t mean any of it sticks.

[@ronwhitehouse23]

Which god?????

[@vladtepes7539]

what would do it, is no VS between them at all, but god letting the human and "other animals" (all) come upon via the means of evulution would translate to god succeeding. it would lead to the human and the rest in the current state it is in. well done, for the claim made, which sadly is another one.

[@sparki9085]

Constant goalpost shifting. No honesty here

[@robertcartier5088]

Who designed the "worm", Joel?

[@ivannenadovic9465]

Still haven't heard any logical thing from this man...

[@bangfi1865]

If your God believe has morphed into it being Pure energy !! How does that square with the bible description of a creature that looks like us @ has the gender male ?pronoun He/him.. @ white of course?

[@wprandall2452]

Why does no element have DNA, but every creature of every kind does have DNA? Yes, creatures do consist of elements, but so do computers. However, elements don't constitute a computer.

[@shanewilson7994]

Because an element is the smallest, non subatomic building block of everything. DNA is made up of elements.

[@wprandall2452]

@@shanewilson7994 Well - true. But a computer program is also composed of elements, but is designed purposely for a use. To the program itself, elements aren't relevant at all. The same is true for DNA. It's only use is as a set of instructions. Otherwise there is no need for DNA to be there.

[@runenorderhaug7646]

I mean viruses have DNA or RNA but no ability to replicate without a cell. In fact this is why they are in a grey are between life and not being life depending on who you ask because they also can evolve but reproducing is a purely chemical event for them that requires a cell.

[@wprandall2452]

@@runenorderhaug7646 Chemicals don't actually reproduce. But as to DNA, which came first - the DNA, or the cell that houses the DNA? The answer is... whichever God created first. Get it? They were both created at the same time. And there is no evolution. "Slow changes over time" is impossible. Changing a creature requires great scientific advancement, and time itself changes nothing. It was a hoax of atheism.

[@mabatch3769]

@@wprandall2452 “Slow changes over time is impossible” Artificial selection disagrees with you. Never heard of artificial selection? It’s how we have all these different dog breeds descendant from wolves. And how we have all these edible fruits and vegetables. And how we have all these pretty flowers your mother plants in her garden. Natural selection does the same thing except traits that help an organism survive are selected instead of man breeding certain traits in plants an animals.

[@TheSnoeedog]

this sounds a whole lot like Billy from Austin, minus 50% of his raging hard on.....

[@HalseyHFW]

4-20-18 🙂

[@tconnelly8]

I hate that arrogant chuckle people like him utter while being so very wrong.

[@mathew4181]

How is it that over so many years in which you have maintained this theory you have never succeeded, not even with the perfected instruments and methods at present, in making a man from a monkey? If man came from the monkey, how is that man, even with grafts and repugnant forms of cross fertilization, does not now become a monkey again? If the cell form itself from nothing, where did it find the elements in order to form, live, and reproduce itself? If it did not exist even when it began to exist, how did it find the vital elements? And how then did the cell find the four elements at its formation? And who gave them to it, which found had the seed of "life"? And when, supposing that this non-existent [cell] had been form itself from nothing, how, from its unique unity and species could there have come from its so many diverse species, as many as there are to be found in the sensible Creation? When we see that of millinea all other animal creatures have not acquired reason and speech, though coexisting with man? Is it logical, purely logical and reasonable, for us to accept the miracle of self- ordering chaos generating the cell by itself , while God is described as unable to make all creation by Himself?

[@shanewilson7994]

The theory of evolution doesn't say a monkey became a man. Perhaps you should study the theory rather than repeat foolishness your preacher tells you. We are apes, still. You see, we share a common ancestor with the other great apes. Nobody says a cell came from nothing. Your next question makes zero sense. There aren't four elements There is no seed of life See the above post about you misrepresenting the science here. A few animals have very well developed reasoning skills. Octopuses, for example. Ravens, for example. As far as speech, animals do communicate with one another. But vocal cords and such tend to be different between animals. And you misrepresenting science, so another stupid question.

[@18dot7]

And you expect KZbin commenters to make up for years of skipped education? Why don't you read up on the matter?

[@Stephanlabize]

Oh he was an anarchist, huh? I call bullshit 🤣

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Even if he was, it makes no difference. Anarchism is a political stance, not a religious one. One can be a theistic anarchist. He simply didn’t know what he’s talking about. I’m sure his pastor told him that sowing his oats when he was younger was him being anarchic and he took it from there.

[@1ito850]

My question to your evolution theory is how is it that we all simultaneously evolve together and how come there isn’t other examples of man involving or signs of people who may not be fully evolved..... how come there’s not people walking around with tails and furry faces!??

[@shanewilson7994]

Because you don't understand evolution. Populations evolve, not individuals. And everything is fully evolved.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Go and read a book on evolution. Natural selection over millenia wouldnt allow for these things as different species with different DNA go down different branches so the sorts of things you mention wouldnt appear in a modern human but do appear in different animal species.

[@glasschin871]

It’s been a year since your comment , did you try to study evolution in that time ?

[@1ito850]

I have not the time….. unfortunately this subject is not covered in my current major, however I still can’t see how something came from nothing.

[@glasschin871]

@@1ito850 no part of evolution states nothing come from nothing. All the matter in the universe already existed at the start of the Big Bang expansion. Where are you getting nothing came from nothing ? What are your beliefs?

[@DeconvertedMan]

god is a very bad programmer. XD

[@zoggdawg8141]

I dont get why you can't say both. Why cant you just say that god made all living things, but with all these different processes. Why not just say that the bible has some flaws and can't be interpreted literally? There would be no conflict with the religion and science.

[@ajclements4627]

@Bouregarde Hipple That’s it NEP, keep up the copy paste, don’t have an original thought on your own!

[@mr.mcbeavy1443]

@@ajclements4627 Sounds just as arrogant as JimSlim also.

[@annk.8750]

Zogg Dawg, why? Why should anybody say, in effect, we have millions of scientists that have explored all the evidence, but just because some people don't like it we should throw in the word "magic" now and then? That would be a violation of all the principles of science that we try to uphold.

[@AllThroughALife]

@Zogg Dawg - Sure, you can "just say the god made all living things", but then you would be just trying to come up with an excuse to throw God on top of the science while still having no evidence for God. And saying the Bible "can't be interpreted literally" is another cop out. The Bible is supposed to be the divine word of God... Why would God intentionally make it confusing? Why would He actively try to make His attempts to connect with His creation confusing and easily misunderstood? How does that benefit Him or us? It makes much more sense that God was a construct of man to fill in the blanks before man had discovered answers, mostly through the scientific process. Learning to accept saying "I don't know" without deferring to "God" is a big step. Learning to find answers without relying on "God did it" before you actually look for those answers is another big step.

[@zoggdawg8141]

Yeah, essentially I'm suggesting a "god of the gaps" argument. It's garbage, but at least it doesn't conflict, or conflicts less, with science and known facts. I still dont get why people can't just do that instead of denying reality.